The Vanguard Rogue. Jester or DPS? Dev attention needed.

[Telrik]

Hi there, this is my first post at these forums. The reason i choose to post this here is the non-existence of any devfeedback on the safehouse forums.


I want some answers to a few vital questions regarding the rogue.





Revamp
We were promised at the last days of beta that there would FINALLY be a revamp for rogues shortly after launch. Is this still happening? Will it happen within the next few weeks?



Damage
A dev stated on the beta forums near the end of beta that rogues were supposed to be the supreme lightfighter. The class that would have the best DPS of them all. Is this a fact? Will there be steps taken to ensure this or will the rogue be fleshed out with other abilities that would justify lower DPS?



Sneak
Sneak as it is now is not working out at all. It can be somewhat usefull when solo, but in groups its just an annoyance. Vanguard is a game made to promote grouping and dungeoncrawling, when a group enters a dungeon they tend to go deep and hunt mobs that are higher than the average level of the group in order to get more exp. If you, as a rogue, is charged with a CR mission for said group, you will fail. This is because mobs higher than you will see through your sneak and they will kill you. Add to that the annoyance of the movementpenalty and the difficulty of raising the skill to respectable levels and you got a broken skill.What is the outlook for this post-revamp?



Poison
Not much to say here is it? It currently cost us 1silver per attempt to skillup the skill necessary to make poisons. The poisons themselves are a joke. Will this system stay after revamp? Will you consider changing the system around?



Soloability
The rogue cant solo very well. It doesnt come to a shock to anyone that a class based on subterfuge and deception doesnt solo well. We are unnable to do any serious amount of damage due to most of our skills being useable only from behind. Blinding Flash helps but its not enough compared to all the other classes in the game. What is the plans here? Will we be so good in groups that we shouldnt need to think about soloing or will we get new fresh solo abilities (maybe the ability to stunlock mobs?)



Information flow
It would be EXTREMELY nice if you, the developers/community contact, would be abit more forthcoming on the safehouse. This is a personal post and in no way affiliated with the safehouse in any way. Seeing that some other class forums get alot of attention i think we deserve some aswell. Call it envy or whatever you like , but we are the most broken class in the game and there hasnt even been a snip of information coming our way.






I know that this posting is saturated with dislike and hard feelings. This is because i really love the game, and i really love playing my class but if by the time i hit 30, is forced to re-roll another character i dont know what i will do. Im not quitting the game, thats for sure, i might pick up diplomacy or crafting just to get some progress but what i REALLY want to do is adventuring.


I know that some of you may read this and think that this is a selfish ranting post about how the rogue doesnt work. Well maybe it is, but i want some clarification and i want some information from the correct sources. I dont want rumours or whishes.


Thanks for reading this and feel free to drop by the Safehouse forums and drop a post with some information. If not i will repost any reply to this post there, with your permission of course.

-Telrik

[Rourke]

/signed.

[Carguard]

/signed x2.

I played a rogue in WoW, and I came to love that character. Heck, I wrote a 120-page novella starring him and my alts. I wanna play him again, but I'm not interested in simply picking locks and disarming traps. A little of that stuff is fine, but I wanna be a backstabbing DPS'ing FOOOOOOL!

[Vinge]

Agree completely.

One point on poisons though - it actually costs 2 silver per skill up attempt.

[Gobbwin]

Damage
A dev stated on the beta forums near the end of beta that rogues were supposed to be the supreme lightfighter. The class that would have the best DPS of them all. Is this a fact? Will there be steps taken to ensure this or will the rogue be fleshed out with other abilities that would justify lower DPS?






For the most part, I agree with everything that you listed, save for this. While I remember seeing that post in the beta forums, I can only hope that we are simply brought up to par w/ our other offensive fighter bretherin. Being overpowered would make us the most likely target for a nerf. It is my hope that we can do at least 90% of the DPS of our counter parts; then make up the remaining DPS and more through the use of poisons. IMHO that would be balanced in that we have to pay to create/use the poisons and outside of rangers paying for arrows, none of the other classes pay $ for their DPS that I'm aware of.

If nothing else, I just hope that they start fixing our many broken abilities. It is very saddening to level up and have nothing to look forward to because its either broken or a very miniscule upgrade, while most every other class is running around wooping and hollering because they just gained new uber ability X.

[trogdor]

the hell with rogues having the most dps. I hope your thinking of having just burst dps. YOu guys are made for an ambush 1,2 dps not for real battle dps. this is where monk bard and ranger come in we are for battles and group dps you are merely gankers and assasins. so if you rogues wanna whine just like the ones on wow do about dps think of this... Burst damage only and no big sword or maces dagger and claws and throwin weapons that's it!

[buzzard]

Agree with you, some information flow would be great.

Rogues are very broken. Got my Rog to 21 and decided to make a Ranger. My ranger's specials at 10 were close to my 21 rog's, at 14 they surpassed them. This isnt against Rangers (rangers are great) its just a comparison. As a Rog truthfully I do most of my damage from autoattack /sigh.

Right now I just need a light at the end of the tunnel, is a revmp coming? If so when is it projected? 1 week? 1 month? 6 months? Are they going to touch on Stealth, Poisons, Damage, fix abilities and add more abilities? Someone throw me a bone here, not knowing is worse than anything.

[Vaedar]

the hell with rogues having the most dps. I hope your thinking of having just burst dps. YOu guys are made for an ambush 1,2 dps not for real battle dps. this is where monk bard and ranger come in we are for battles and group dps you are merely gankers and assasins. so if you rogues wanna whine just like the ones on wow do about dps think of this... Burst damage only and no big sword or maces dagger and claws and throwin weapons that's it!

:rolleyes:

[Vioche]

the hell with rogues having the most dps. I hope your thinking of having just burst dps. YOu guys are made for an ambush 1,2 dps not for real battle dps. this is where monk bard and ranger come in we are for battles and group dps you are merely gankers and assasins. so if you rogues wanna whine just like the ones on wow do about dps think of this... Burst damage only and no big sword or maces dagger and claws and throwin weapons that's it!
lmao

[Vinge]

The post about rogues referred to which was made on the last day of beta by Darrin Mcpherson (Senior Game Designer, Sigil Online Games) said, amongst other things:

"Your mini-revamp, tweaks are coming right after launch."

"Poisons and device will work properly, be available from trainers and their creation will be made more clear to the new player."

"You will be where we want you to be (top of the Light Fighters)."

"Adding things like disarming locks and traps will come as soon as we are able. We want you to be relied on for this skill."

"If is my goal to make all the classes shine. It will happen for you as well."

I agree with the OP and others here that it would be nice to get some kind of indication on when any of the above is likely to happen.

[Telrik]

The post about rogues referred to which was made on the last day of beta by Darrin Mcpherson (Senior Game Designer, Sigil Online Games) said, amongst other things:

"Your mini-revamp, tweaks are coming right after launch."

"Poisons and device will work properly, be available from trainers and their creation will be made more clear to the new player."

"You will be where we want you to be (top of the Light Fighters)."

"Adding things like disarming locks and traps will come as soon as we are able. We want you to be relied on for this skill."

"If is my goal to make all the classes shine. It will happen for you as well."

I agree with the OP and others here that it would be nice to get some kind of indication on when any of the above is likely to happen.


Thanks for digging up that post. Ive heard recently (after i made my post) that the beta forums are still available, just archived, if i had known that earlier i would have included that source..

Dont loose faith rogues, shout and let your voice be heard!

[Decoy Embra]

I do hope that this will come soon. I love my rogue and I refuse to put her aside because the class needs so much more work. I'd rather slog through it and stay loyal, rather than take the chance that I get attached to another character in the meantime.

Rogues need to at the very least be brought up to match the rest of the offensive line.

[Ohhm]

the hell with rogues having the most dps. I hope your thinking of having just burst dps. YOu guys are made for an ambush 1,2 dps not for real battle dps. this is where monk bard and ranger come in we are for battles and group dps you are merely gankers and assasins. so if you rogues wanna whine just like the ones on wow do about dps think of this... Burst damage only and no big sword or maces dagger and claws and throwin weapons that's it!

Well, thats your opinion. Unfortunately thats not the devs opinion. The Devs have stated that they want rogues to be top of the light fighters in terms of DPS. Pretty much all of the light fighters are built for sustained combat as the longer the fight goes on the more dmg we do.

[Byakuga]

Trogdor is obviously an idiot. If a Rogue is battle ready, gets behind you, sneaks your and jumps you.. YOU SHOULD be ****ed. We are assassins, thats what we do. We freak out and kill shit really fast IF done properly.

MMO's these days are steering away from what a Rogue really is. He's a murciless killer that hides in shadow, steals from homes and kills babies that are sleeping. I mean sure, I wouldn't expect a Rogue to survive if a warrior or anything ran up to him face to face and smashed him. But if they execute a gank by themselves, they should be able to quickly annihilate the passing wanderer.

I'm also not giving up on my broken Rogue. I play in a FFA PVP server and let me tell you thats just a laugh. Ill sneak up behind someone, backstab, make them bleed and throw my power attack off. Only to be rooted/slept/snared/mezzed/(enter spell that slows you down). Then a barrage of DoT skills come at me.

Rogues don't have anything to slow another person down, they don't have a skill to keep them in Range, once you're out of a Rogues range the Rogue is basically ****ed everytime. I get people telling me I don't know how to play my class, but you better believe me I do.

EDIT: If anything about the broken stealth system, if they don't know how to fix it which is obviously a problem then at least grant full runspeed while stealthed.

[Kurthis]

Something that will up your rogue dps in groups by a huge margin is paying attention to weaknesses other group members put on mobs. At level 21 my wicked strikes crit for 700, backstabs crit for around 2300, lacerate's that are 250 damage a tick (1500 damage total). I once got a hemorage that was 596 damage a tick. That's from paying attention to weaknesses that other players put on mobs and then using the attack that exploits it. You only have 5 seconds before the weakness goes away so timing is important. My biggest problem in groups is pulling aggro. Here is a chart listing which classes attacks put weaknesses on mobs and and which classes attacks exploit them http://nocte.thesafehouse.org/Forums/vgVuln.htm . Learn them and you will be an uber dps machine lol (that is in groups). Soloing without these weaknesses to exploit my dps is bleh....

[Vinge]

Something that will up your rogue dps in groups by a huge margin is paying attention to weaknesses other group members put on mobs. At level 21 my wicked strikes crit for 700 off the mainhand (i'm guessing that second lower number is offhand damage), backstabs crit for around 2300 off my mainhand, lacerate's that are 250 damage a tick (1500 damage total). I once got a hemorage that was 596 damage a tick. That's from paying attention to weaknesses that other players put on mobs and then using the attack that exploits it. You only have 5 seconds before the weakness goes away so timing is important. My biggest problem in groups is pulling aggro. Here is a chart listing which classes attacks put weaknesses on mobs and and which classes attacks exploit them http://nocte.thesafehouse.org/Forums/vgVuln.htm . Learn them and you will be an uber dps machine lol (that is in groups). Soloing without these weaknesses to exploit my dps is bleh....

Whilst it's certainly true that rogues can increase their dps by learning to exploit weaknesses, so can any class.

So it's not really a way of making up for the other shortcomings of the rogue class.

But yeah, exploiting weaknesses is a great way to up dps for any class. :D

[Saris]

I love my rogue and I refuse to put her aside because the class needs so much more work. I'd rather slog through it and stay loyal, rather than take the chance that I get attached to another character in the meantime.

Well said!

[Odball]

I am hoping for a whole update to the exploit system so that it's a bit easier to tell when one we can use occurs, right now I can't tell a stagger from a vulnerable.

It's been so long since we actually heard a word on rogues revamp. Can we get a "we're still working on it" ?

[Atrosity]

/signed

[buzzard]

Something that will up your rogue dps in groups by a huge margin is paying attention to weaknesses other group members put on mobs. At level 21 my wicked strikes crit for 700, backstabs crit for around 2300, lacerate's that are 250 damage a tick (1500 damage total). I once got a hemorage that was 596 damage a tick. That's from paying attention to weaknesses that other players put on mobs and then using the attack that exploits it. You only have 5 seconds before the weakness goes away so timing is important. My biggest problem in groups is pulling aggro. Here is a chart listing which classes attacks put weaknesses on mobs and and which classes attacks exploit them http://nocte.thesafehouse.org/Forums/vgVuln.htm . Learn them and you will be an uber dps machine lol (that is in groups). Soloing without these weaknesses to exploit my dps is bleh....

Wow that seems somewhat high to me, are you talking crits or epics and legendaries? If I crit a backstab even while exploiting an enraged I will hit for 600-1000. Only way I could get 2300 is if it were at least an epic. Same for the others.

[Julianr]

Wow that seems somewhat high to me, are you talking crits or epics and legendaries? If I crit a backstab even while exploiting an enraged I will hit for 600-1000. Only way I could get 2300 is if it were at least an epic. Same for the others.

He's full of shit. Or he has lv35 gear on his 20 rogue. Personally, I vote the former.

[buzzard]

He's full of shit. Or he has lv35 gear on his 20 rogue. Personally, I vote the former.


heh yah, guess I wasnt being quite as blunt.

But anyways Rogues rejoice!!! Talisker makes a post:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28343

Looks like the revamp is starting!! Maybe slowly but starting!

[Decoy Embra]

Rock on :D I'm so excited to hear this. There's just so much to tweak and fix in VG that even a little attention is wonderful to hear about. It may be frustrating to see how slowly things are being dealt with, but the company can only do so much at a time.

I'm glad to see that things are being worked on and that a few things will be patched very soon. Makes me wish my computer hasn't been in the shop for the past four days so I could see the changes as they happen.

[Telrik]

Ah, nice to finally see a post from a class contact/dev on safehouse. If that post was made due to this then "Woho!". And if not its still "Woho!" :)

Just happy that they are working on it, and im even more happy to see them wanting our ideas for poisons. Too bad they didnt manage to fix arc of daggers when they tried tho, not that i will ever use it.. :p

-Tel