how is pally tanking?

[vynde]

i heard they have made some changes to the mobs, and endurance costs for the tanks. so how is the paladins tanking ability compared to the DK and warrior now? is it hard to keep agro?

[Thregin]

i heard they have made some changes to the mobs, and endurance costs for the tanks. so how is the paladins tanking ability compared to the DK and warrior now? is it hard to keep agro?

yes our aggro sucks ass...it sucked ass before, then they increased the cost of our main taunt (guardians assault) from 9 to 26 endurance so now our aggro sucks even more.

[Teldath]

yeah pallys are very weak on the aggro front, but in survivability we are the best.

[EonBlue]

yeah pallys are very weak on the aggro front, but in survivability we are the best.

As I cleric I usually end up tanking 50% of the time when there is a paly. I find them annoying to group with unless there are two *other* healers. I purposely build as much aggro as possible because if i don't take it when the paly can't take it from me other classes tend to get it.

I have found that at lvl 24(22?) I believe they get a buff which reduces other peoples melee aggro by 20% and that seemed to make all the difference in the world.

That being said th BEST group ive ever had was a paly/cleric/shm/bmg/ranger/bard group. Hands down the best.

Bad paly's suck A LOT.
Good ones are quite nice to have along.

[Miggy]

Have to agree, in a group last night the Warrior was holding aggro almost permanently while I didn't get a look in, but when my group wiped I was the last to die because of the million and one ways a Dwarf Paladin has of staying alive.

[Xer'la'oth]

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

[vynde]

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

this is my dilemma too, although i havent started my paladin yet. everyone tells me to roll whichever one looks like fun, but being laughed out of groups is not fun. this is coming from my experiences in WoW where warriors had the best tanking tools and the paladins were forced to offheal/mainheal.

how is dk in terms of tanking? do higher level mobs resist the dks DC and other debuffs? usually raidbosses resist some debuffs

[Xer'la'oth]

this is my dilemma too, although i havent started my paladin yet. everyone tells me to roll whichever one looks like fun, but being laughed out of groups is not fun. this is coming from my experiences in WoW where warriors had the best tanking tools and the paladins were forced to offheal/mainheal.



Same thing for me, exactly. I got a Paladin to 55 and quit, and later leveled a Warrior to 60 (realized then it wasn't the game for me). Apparently now Paladins are fine tanks, and Druids... but anyway, yeah. Gonna try a DK to 10 or so.

[Varro]

I currently have a 21 Pally and I can maintain agro no problem. Once in a while I will lose aggro due to a druid or sorcerer getting a big hit, but I can use one of the taunts and easily get aggro back.

I grouped with a warrior once and he continually lost aggro.

So if anyone is having a problem holding aggro as a Pally you may want to check you strategy.

Varro

[Multiplex]

A Warrior should really never lose aggro...

I'm a War and when I group with Pallys I usually have to step in and help out because they lose aggro a lot when the big DPS classes go all out on damage.

I'm lower level though so things may change over time.

[Shawnsan]

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

All tanks bring viable ways to tank to the group.

And all of them are more or less fun to play depending on your skill level with tanking.

I play in a fairly static 4 some that is a Shaman, Paladin, Dreadknight(me) and Bard.

We have a lovely dynamic whereby the DK pulls (Chains is wonderous at slowing mutlis) and the Paladin will "rescue" me for a free heal when I get back. This allows our shaman to slow, and apply other debuffs, and the paladin and I trade agro back and forth depending mostly on crit rate.

Play what is a) fun for you and b) you are most effective with.

Then let the cards fall where they may.
:D

[Forshal]

I play a 15 pally in a sham/dru/pal static trio. Around 10 and the following few levels, I noticed having some trouble with the druid pulling aggro quite often. After I got Guardian's Assault and developed a good strategy, I've since had very little trouble holding aggro, if any at all. And the druid LOVES to dump all of his mana within the first 5 seconds of the encounter, heh. I don't consider this an issue, though. Quite often I'll purposely let the druid lose aggro so I can rescue him, doing some pretty mighty damage, or healing him (but I usually go for the damage). Rescues can be very powerful.

I've had very limited experience in a full group, so I can't attest to that. The few times we've had a full group, I don't recall having any issues.

[bakavic]

I'm level 22, and I don't have much issue with tanking. Sure, I might lose it once in a while, but most of the time that is due to a dps class going all out when it isn't necessary and not using their hate lowering tools.

[Kyin]

Ok I am a 23 wolf shaman and our MT from EQ2 rolled a pally because they were suppose to be the most Def. based tank. And they are but.

Hate>def.

Pallies have dismal ways of getting agro, and they get better ones late in the game but they either cost Virtue points or are finishers.

The pallies Def. stance does not increase hate gain at all like the other 2 tank classes meaning that their taunt and hate skills do 30% hate as the other 2.

Now the tank I play with made it to 21, when we had alot of trouble doing things we shouldnt have had trouble with.

With the pally tank I ended up tanking all the time. The reason is their DPS is much much lower than the other 2 tanks, and their hate gain is lower as well. Now I would like to see what a 24 pally could do, but with the hate gain that they have it caps the group on what they could do. A war or a DK could run in and grab hate and never loose it while everyone goes all out. A pally group will have to slowly pull 1 at a time and cap damage to insure they do not grab agro because if they do its over. Yes, you could rescue but if rescue fails then your healer/dps is dead.

Regardless of if you can tank as a paladin, or if you have no problem or a lot of problems the class is unbalanced when compared to the other two tanks. If they were given more hate, or more dps, or if Virtue was much eaiser to gain then all would be balanced, but currently it is not.

That being said, our MT has rerolled a warrior and is now 13, hes already found that keeping agro is much easier based off of DPS alone. I find it sad that with the 3 tanks that they agro management is not equal. Which is the keystone to making all tanks do their job equally. Flavor afterward all you want with life taps, heals and battle orders, it doesnt matter, what matters is that you can grab agro and keep it 90% of the time equally. Rescues should be for adds, and Spike DPS, not the sole way to tank.

[garath]

As a healer I can say that I generally don't see any great disparity between tanks. I think its more a question of how a person plays his or her class as opposed to the class itself.

I was in a group with a warrior that was getting torn up like he was made of paper and he couldn't hold aggro if his life depended on it. Worked for me, the bard was taking damage better than him. Later that day I grouped a warrior that I didn't have to stress too much keeping the dps healed. He was holding aggro fine.

The best tank I've played with so far was a paladin. I grouped with him for almost 5 hours and he held aggro very well. Only once in awhile a monk or sorcerer would pull it off him. I really enjoyed his healing ability as a supplement too. He was capable of assisting in the real bad pulls and we came out of it on top more than once.

[GiggsBeckham11]

agree with the OP.

Each tank is viable and can do a great job at holding aggro and generalyl doing his job. However, it takes skill in Vanguard to be good. It also takes good gear.

It won't matter that you made it to lvl 50 solo'ing but never got great gear. You won't be able to be effective at mitigating without uber armor.

As a paladin I find myself constantly having to appraise and re-appraise a battle. You have to make sure you hold aggro. If you lose it you have to move quickly to get a rescue in and get it back. You have to know all of your skills and use them appropriately, not just spam a few and hope it works out. There is a time and place for every skill and knowing when and how to use those in a timely fashion makes ALL the difference in a tanks skill.

THen, on top of the tank being knowledgable and generally "good", the group has to be smart. No matter how good of a tank you think you are...if a DPS class blasts away with all he has got you will lose aggro. PERIOD. So, it is also the domain of the group to know their places and act accordingly.

That is why I love this game. Some people seem to think that the combat is mindless. They sure aren't playing the same game as me. If they are mindless in the game they are probably not that effective.

[Trit1]

i think that whoever is behind the keyboard will determine how well you tank. if you are having problems holding aggro as a paladin then maybe you should try to change up your strategy. as a 15 pally i have 3 taunts and 2 rescues and think i do a very good job tanking. hardly ever lose aggro and if i do quick rescue and its right back. i seem to really shine on multiple pulls when the fit hits the shan. heals, multiple rescues, and multiple taunts, pallys just do very well overall. i actually enjoy having someone else pull and using rescue right away to get aggro. it is obviously a huge hate producer and it starts you out with a high damage shot on the mob. but even when i pull i dont have any problems holding aggro. you can nearly spam the 3 taunts continuosly and again, the rescues are just awesome. so maybe if you are having problems tanking, look at all your abilities, make sure you actually have an idea how to tank, or maybe just realize you shouldnt be a tank and reroll a class better suited to your playing style.

[Isio]

i think that whoever is behind the keyboard will determine how well you tank. if you are having problems holding aggro as a paladin then maybe you should try to change up your strategy. as a 15 pally i have 3 taunts and 2 rescues and think i do a very good job tanking. hardly ever lose aggro and if i do quick rescue and its right back. i seem to really shine on multiple pulls when the fit hits the shan. heals, multiple rescues, and multiple taunts, pallys just do very well overall. i actually enjoy having someone else pull and using rescue right away to get aggro. it is obviously a huge hate producer and it starts you out with a high damage shot on the mob. but even when i pull i dont have any problems holding aggro. you can nearly spam the 3 taunts continuosly and again, the rescues are just awesome. so maybe if you are having problems tanking, look at all your abilities, make sure you actually have an idea how to tank, or maybe just realize you shouldnt be a tank and reroll a class better suited to your playing style.

Although I agree on some of this, last time I checked there was no hate modification to our rescues. All it does is simply force the mob to face you for a certain amount of hits. Aggro is not just about the tank. In this game it is a group effort. More so than any game I have played yet and I've enjoyed it thus far.
And if you don't think Pally's have any aggro issues, then let me direct you to our class boards Paladins of Telon (http://www.paladinsoftelon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=25)

[Vengeful]

This just in.

Paladins are getting a +Aggro% componant to our Defensive Aura and Damage Aggro in general is being looked at.

[Trit1]

Although I agree on some of this, last time I checked there was no hate modification to our rescues. All it does is simply force the mob to face you for a certain amount of hits. Aggro is not just about the tank. In this game it is a group effort. More so than any game I have played yet and I've enjoyed it thus far.
And if you don't think Pally's have any aggro issues, then let me direct you to our class boards Paladins of Telon (http://www.paladinsoftelon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=25)


of course im still a young pally and i totally agree that this is a group effort, if you have a dps going full out from the start then most tanks are going to have some problems. everyone at this point is learning how to play their characters in groups and im sure that plays a part. but i just dont see any aggro problems right now. ill report back when i get some more levels and more experience in groups.

[zpeteman]

Paladin's hold aggro very well. It's simply a learning process.

[Vengeful]

Paladin's hold aggro very well. It's simply a learning process.

Please go tell them that on Paladins of Telon, I tried and they call me a know-it-all and a liar.

[CrashHappy]

Please go tell them that on Paladins of Telon, I tried and they call me a know-it-all and a liar.

That's because alot of us are having severe problems with it.
It's probably a good job I don't have the time to post where and how I'm having problems. For one thing this latest patch may have changed it some and secondly it's probably all been said as it is.
Consider posting some movies to show the rest of us.

[Shawnara]

Off topic abit but has anyone noticed a decrease in effectiveness from marshalling cry? It's barely having an impact on my damage output and it's killing me on decay apparently. I've also noticed that as a Pally since the patch my ability to solo dropped off significantly.,

[Ellestil]

If I had to guess at why many paladins felt they couldn't hold aggro well, it is because the did not put any points into Str, or very few. Because of this their dps suffered, and in relation, so did their aggro generation.

Now I know that Str wasn't being added to auto attack melee like it should, but it was affecting the max of crit's and certain weapon specials. The fixing of Str now will help even more.

Paladins aren't the highest tank dps, at higher levels they do get some abilities that boost their burst dps. If a player neglected his Str completely in favor of other stats, especially at lower levels, he had a hard time generating aggro compared to a player who did add to his Str. This is probably why some players reported having big issues holding aggro, and others did not. Some players also learned that using burst dps capabilities like Marshalling Cry early on the pull, helped them hold aggro better.

Raising Str alone will not solve all your problems. You still need to strategically use your abilities to help you generate aggro. However, increased Str now more than ever WILL help you in the overall hate gaining plan.

[Fluffycake]

The problem is that I can go into dps mode and just do a lot of damage to hold aggro easily.

If I go into tank mode and wear a shield...it sucks. I can use every aggro available in the best possible ways and it still sucks. I might hold aggro, but I might not. It turns into a rescue-fest. The only way to prevent this is to make the dps hold waaayyy back on their damage. So much so that it's pointless.

Meanwhile if you just use a 2h and go dps then the dps classes can actually do their job without stealing aggro. The mobs die a lot faster and all is well.


Shield based abilities need a huge +hate increase. Not damage...just lots of extra hate. Defensive stances/auras need a hate boost as well. A tank in defensive with a shield on should generate the best hate, not a supposed tank in dps mode.

[Calatin]

My paladin is still in his mid-teens, so I know I've only seen a little bit of the game. But I was impressed with his ability to grab and sometimes hold aggro using only rescues and abilities. How did I test this? I was in a group that started the night fighting things that were a stretch for me (+2 or +3 levels) and ended the night fighting things I had a very difficult time hitting at all, and for negligible damage when I did (+5 to +6 levels). Even on the latter, through a combination of rescues and abilities, I could grab or hold aggro through the bulk of the fight roughly half or a third of the time.

I can only imagine this will get better as I actually start hitting and doing some damage. :D

I find the rescue mechanism, the need to know your abilities, and the need to adapt as the fight moves makes tanking much more interactive and interesting than the old-school model of "hit taunt every 15 seconds and autoattack".

Now, I still think it's much much easier to get by without a tank in your party than it is to get by without a healer or significant DPS. And that's a problem -- the lack of any of those three roles should hurt badly. But that's another subject.

[outlanderbz]

If I had to guess at why many paladins felt they couldn't hold aggro well, it is because the did not put any points into Str, or very few. Because of this their dps suffered, and in relation, so did their aggro generation.

Now I know that Str wasn't being added to auto attack melee like it should, but it was affecting the max of crit's and certain weapon specials. The fixing of Str now will help even more.

Paladins aren't the highest tank dps, at higher levels they do get some abilities that boost their burst dps. If a player neglected his Str completely in favor of other stats, especially at lower levels, he had a hard time generating aggro compared to a player who did add to his Str. This is probably why some players reported having big issues holding aggro, and others did not. Some players also learned that using burst dps capabilities like Marshalling Cry early on the pull, helped them hold aggro better.

Raising Str alone will not solve all your problems. You still need to strategically use your abilities to help you generate aggro. However, increased Str now more than ever WILL help you in the overall hate gaining plan.


I would have to agree with this. I did not read much on the forums and just played the game, once i hit level 10 i started dumping points into STR. I guess i assumed i wanted to do more damage when soloing so i went that route. I also went with a 2-hand greatsword. When i started grouping i did not have any problem holding agro and when i started reading the forums i was a bit confused with peoples agro control problems.

I use smite to pull, hit marshal cry, then hammer and use rescues when needed. Maybe the combination of 2H and STR has produced that extra damage i need to hold agro. I am not saying that this is right and Hate shouldnt be more effective but i rarely use any of the hate generating skills except smite which i use to pull and an attack because it uses energy which i seem to always have a lot of.

I also dont seem to crit that much because my finishing attacks do not light up that much, maybe that is normal.

I should also state that i never go out of the offensive stance.

[Vengeful]

That's because alot of us are having severe problems with it.
It's probably a good job I don't have the time to post where and how I'm having problems. For one thing this latest patch may have changed it some and secondly it's probably all been said as it is.
Consider posting some movies to show the rest of us.

If and when I find the time/will to do so they'll be posted. But as you can imagine, prooving myself to people I don't play with isn't exactly high on my list of priorities.

But responses like those tend to come from people who you tell you can do something they have just ranted and raved as impossible to do. Believe me or not....I hold agro just fine and people I've grouped with have not admitted to noticing any difference between myself and another tank class. If you want me to describe what I'm doing, let me know...I'm at work and have nothing better to do =P

[CrashHappy]

Responses like what? You said you have no problems, I said I'd like to see it.
The latest patch does seem to have helped me a bit, although having said that I had a right time tonight with others grabbing agro when I'd only half-pulled. And to keep a target focussed on me seems to require so much hate-spamming that I'm having no luck juggling multiple npc's.

[N86eAL]

It is all about how you and y our party manage to act like a group. When I first started to tank at about Lvl 14 - 15, I was using a 2H axe, using my offensive aura doing attacks. Now I am Lvl 19, using a axe and shield, using my defensive aura. I am holding aggro, and I hold it well.

Today I was doing Khergo's End with a PUG. After killing of the spider in the beginning, I told them everything they needed to know. If I pull 2 or more mobs, always hit the one I am attacking. Try to control DPS, and if you are feeling that you are taking a lot of aggro, then lower it. If I do a long pull, wait for me to get the mob close.

Was a little choppy in the beginning, but after a while it was smooth as ice. I rarely dropped aggro, and when I did, I could usually get it back with one of my two Rescue skills.

When we had cleared both the caves, we decided to visit the king. I pulled the first two guards(at the beginning of the great hall before the king), backed away, aggroed two more. It felt like we would wipe, but we didn't. Everyone did their job, hitting my mob, and when someone decided to run and hit on a caster, I was there with my rescue quickly enough to save him.

After the first two mobs, it became much easier, and when the final one was left, we couldn't really grasp that we survived. If someone would have started to attack another mob, in the early stage of the fight, we would probably have wiped.

So, my thoughts are like this. Tanking good can both be your problem, and the groups. When my guild wanted to go into Khergo's End, I said yes. Got a Lvl 14 healer, 16 monk, 14 ranger, 14 psi, me a paladin at lvl 18 and another one that had to leave. We did the poison cave quite easily, but when we got cought the wipe was there. The pace we had in the beginning, and the seurity was better then the group I had when visiting the king.

When I have a group that knows what they are doing, everything will go much better. So, if they do not nerf my taunting skills, then I see no problem tanking harder things with my guild, and I will continue to enjoy what I am doing.

EDIT:
The post before me. Yes, hatespamming. When I tank, I only use three skills, my three taunts. I spem them like crazy, always using them, always. When they are ready to be used, I use them. You can't tank with damage, because that will not generate enough hate. The only time that I do not spam is when I save Endurance to be able to use my Rescue skills. Would be fun to see my logs when I tank, because I would probably press my keys WAY to much. people maybe don't do it that way, but I do.

I even tanked so much, that my left thumb started to hurt(Two of my taunts are alt + 1 and alt + 2). When I have a nice round going wit ha good group, we never stop.

[Vengeful]

others grabbing agro when I'd only half-pulled.

There is part of your problem. If these are Pugs, it's understandable...but if they are people you play with all the time, you should explain to them they shouldn't attack at least until the mob gets to you and you've had a couple whacks at it.

It doesn't matter what tank you're playing, you're gonna have trouble holding aggro if people start chain nuking before you've laid down the groundwork for a pull.

[CrashHappy]

It doesn't matter what tank you're playing, you're gonna have trouble holding aggro if people start chain nuking before you've laid down the groundwork for a pull.

Oh PUG's are definately part of the problem. In all honesty I get the impression that some players out there like to strip agro off tanks, getting their rocks off on showing just how 'hard' they are.
They are primarily the problem I have though. Firstly, if tanking in VG is supposed to be more than just hitting taunt, how if diving taunt into three different buttons and cycling through those any different exactly? It seems essentially the same to me, except that I dare not risk the downtime of varying my attacks in case I lose the agro.
Secondly, how am I supposed to deal with multiple blips. I can't afford to cycle through them and if there's an add then any amount of time I spend trying to grab them the DPS are overhauling all the work I did trying to contain the first target.
The final straw for me last night was in a group and after a while one member says they wished we had a tank. I mean yes I want a game that where a well rounded team that works together functions easily over and above one that doesn't but the combination of apparently screwy agro and a targeting system that at least could be described as requiring some finesse combine to make some combats tortuous.
I can't help feeling like I should be able to save a team-mate from themselves much of the time. I could be wrong but I've always thought that's kind of what tanks do. But as a team member accidentaly pointed* out DPS with area effects are always going to make combat a fluid experience and this is how it should be. This applies to healers taking agro from add's and all the other little details that mix things up and right now I feel extremely poorly equiped to deal with these things.
Now if people in all seriousness can tell me that paladins mature to that point, I'll bite my lip and dig in to the challenge but it just doesn't look that way from here.


*They actually just kept screaming they had area effect attacks, which would have made me laugh if they hadn't caused a team wipe or two.

[Vengeful]

Oh PUG's are definately part of the problem. In all honesty I get the impression that some players out there like to strip agro off tanks, getting their rocks off on showing just how 'hard' they are.
They are primarily the problem I have though. Firstly, if tanking in VG is supposed to be more than just hitting taunt, how if diving taunt into three different buttons and cycling through those any different exactly? It seems essentially the same to me, except that I dare not risk the downtime of varying my attacks in case I lose the agro.
Secondly, how am I supposed to deal with multiple blips. I can't afford to cycle through them and if there's an add then any amount of time I spend trying to grab them the DPS are overhauling all the work I did trying to contain the first target.
The final straw for me last night was in a group and after a while one member says they wished we had a tank. I mean yes I want a game that where a well rounded team that works together functions easily over and above one that doesn't but the combination of apparently screwy agro and a targeting system that at least could be described as requiring some finesse combine to make some combats tortuous.
I can't help feeling like I should be able to save a team-mate from themselves much of the time. I could be wrong but I've always thought that's kind of what tanks do. But as a team member accidentaly pointed* out DPS with area effects are always going to make combat a fluid experience and this is how it should be. This applies to healers taking agro from add's and all the other little details that mix things up and right now I feel extremely poorly equiped to deal with these things.
Now if people in all seriousness can tell me that paladins mature to that point, I'll bite my lip and dig in to the challenge but it just doesn't look that way from here.


*They actually just kept screaming they had area effect attacks, which would have made me laugh if they hadn't caused a team wipe or two.

Now from what I can tell about how Pallies are built (from a designers perspective), by having our aggro gen split between 3 different abilites is to turn tanking into an activity and not something that you just do by being in the group. You have to try to hold aggro and if you aren't paying attention and aren't concentrating on it, you'll lose aggro. Some would argue that this doesn't increase the challenge but only increases button mashing.... I'd say the challenge is to do the button mashing and create time to use other abilities without losing aggro.

About multiple mobs, I never have to cycle targets or really care about the other mobs until I get to them....but then again, I don't let my group AE either. My group focuses on the one I'm hitting...the other mobs will hit me until a healer pulls aggro, which a Protector's fury fixes...the Damage from the PF garuntees that I have it's attention for a while. AoE on normal 2-3 mob pulls is just a bad idea, and a stupid one on the part of the DPS class. It's okay if they are three or four 2 dots. Above that it's just asking for trouble. I used to play only DPS classes in MMOs, and I totally understand how cool they feel when they see all those numbers....But as the tank, you need to explain to them that if they do that...they will die.

I'll try to help you if I can...I'm not claiming to know all the answers, but I don't have the same amount of trouble as you seem to be having. First off...

What level?
How is your gear?
DPS of your weapon?
2h or Sword and Board?
Weapon Skill/Specialization maxed?
Offensive or Defensive Aura?
Do you use an Upbraid/Guardian's Assault Macro?
Do you do your own pulling?

And now some simple questions/suggestions, just to make sure we are on the same page.

Never use Holy Strike while trying to hold aggro.
Always flank.
Use Marshalling Cry to your advantage and not as a DPS boost to your group. (Use Protector's Fury, Upbraid/Guardians Assault, and Hammer attacks when MC is up).
Use Protector's Fury when possible for an aggro boost, use Entwine on CC classes to not break Mez.
Break up your End cost Melee attacks with Smite and Judgements to help regen your End (Spells don't interrupt End regen, melee attacks do).

[Trit1]

hey, im level 17 now and thought i would give a little update on my tanking progress. ive been having fun doing diff dungeons lately. i went to ke last night and thought tanking and aggro control went very well. the ranger kept pulling aggro from me but only when he would shoot the mob on its way back to the group. i just kept him as my def target on pulls and rescued him. i keep seeing people saying they have problems with multiple pulls, which is where i seem to do very well myself. one thing that may help with multiple mob pulls is to assign someone else as main assist. maybe ranger or rogue or someone with med armor. have that person assist you, and stay on the first target, then everyone else assist him and you can go around and put a taunt or two on the other adds. just an idea, thats not what i do though. i usually just make sure no one attacks until the mobs are pulled back to the group, assist me, and after a couple taunts on the first mob i tab around and put a taunt on the adds, maybe a rescue for a healer, maybe a heal on myself. dont neglect that you can heal yourself and it also creates aggro too.

i have had bad experiences with groups over the last couple of days but only a couple and only when group memebers had no idea how to play or didnt want to listen. but i am always group leader so i just remove the dumb ones and invite others. i find having open communication with your group and making sure everyone understands their role and who to assist makes a big difference. this game, to me, is really based on how well your group does, not just how good of a tank you are. and i find as i get more levels people are starting to play better and understand their roles more. which is to be expected.

im not trying to make myself sound better than anyone, just stating my opinions and strats so far on tanking. its easy for people to scream nerf or change this or change that, and for some reason people are screaming about the pallys supposed aggro problem. but i just dont see it. getting buffs early in the game will result in nerfs later. and the people who were in beta and now think they know more than anyone else is getting old. and trying to make people feel bad because they arent having your problems is getting old too. sometimes its not the game that needs to be changed its the strategy. new games call for new strats. i personally am having a blast with my pally, i love him. and i learn more and become better at tanking with every dungeon i enter. so go ahead and flame me for not having your problems, which seems to be what most of the trolls like to do , ill be in game tanking. :)

oh and a note, i always tank with sword and board. and targetting multiple mobs seems pretty easy when you use the indicators on the right hand side of the screen. unless you pull 5 mobs or more, which you will probably die on anyway.

ill report more once i get more levels..

[Crieon]

Wow. i dont know what everyone is saying. i as a pally have no problem at all keeping aggro. it dont take much. and i group with a Cleric or a Ranger VERY often i can pull mobs off them and keep it off them. if you can't do that as a pally, you really dont need to be a tank. as a pally tank it is a little harder, mostly cause of the endurance cost increase. but other then that Hate increasers dont do you much for nothing i use guardian strike mabey 3 times a fight. MABEY!!! usually only 1 a fight. get a good hit in with marshals call and hammer of judge my usual hit is somewhere around 500-1000 when i do that. im lvl 19. Pallies are not weak at all i have crit for 1556 at lvl 15.if you place your Rescues right if somone gets it off you its your from there on. if you dont belive me try grouping with me im on Florendyl... Names Crieon