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View Full Version : Tips and tricks of Disciple Solo'ing post patch


Mazoch
02-10-2007, 11:42 PM
After all the recent drama following the 2/7 changes I figured a good way forward for those who want to stick with the class might be to compare notes and compare strategies.

Two reasons for the:
1) A lot of people are claiming that the class is currently unable to take on even simple opponents (two dots several levels under themselves) others feel that they are doing quite well in spite of the changes.
2) The time of screaming bloody murder is past. All that needed it now had a chance to cry in our beer a day or two. It's time to look forward. In order to supply valid and useful feedback to sigil on what we feel are the strengths and weakness of our class we all need to understand it as it works after eating our own bit 'o kryptonite.

To try and start off, here’s 5 different tips to soloing with a Disciple today:
- The magic level 18
For a lot of people short of 18, I think they a feeling the changes a lot more then players higher up. Prior to 18 you’re still lacking a number of very useful tools that imho help form the class into a more viable form. The second buff (The Crow 1) gives a large boost to AR, your first DOT, a nice help with our reduced damage and most importantly, clarity. Trade 3 Jin for a crit hit.

If your not 18 yet, take heart, there’s a few new abilities in your future that'll help you get by.

- Love thy clarity
Clarity before the patch was kinda redundant. With a 50-60% crit rate, why bother spending 3 jin for yet another crit. With the changes its one of our strongest abilities. Clarity means that you can get of a crit heal and a nice damage burt off when your really need it. The more I get used to clarity, the less I’m using cyclone and EoL.

- HoT 'n DoT's
With the reduction in dam and healing our combat style has changed from over running enemies with bulldozer like damage to something more akin to outlasting the opponent by applying consistent damage while making good use of self heals. This means that Heal and Damage over time becomes important tools to adding that extra that'll tip. Always try to use your negative bond, Blessed Wind and Knife Hand early in the fight and when possible renew them to keep the healing and damage coming.

- Boosting Blessed Wind or Knifes Hand
The benefit of Clarity is not just a matter of opening finishing moves; it also allows you to pick a move that will cause a crit hit in the first place. Attacks with secondary effect will also have the secondary effects increased by a crit.

For example, my blessed wind normally ticks for 36. If I'm activating BW with a crit, I now self heal for 55 pr tick. So when you use clarity always consider what skill your want to use with it. Combining BW with clarity allows you to increase the BW healing to almost pre-nerf levels.

- End drain is not our only negative bond.
It seems that almost everyone tend to use the endurance draining debuff. Often the damage bond can work better in my experience. While I don't have number on the pro's and con's as far as I can tell, the more damage your opponent is likely to cause the better the damage causing bonds is likely to work. In essence it will give you a second DoT. An interesting way to test it is to use the de-buff and let the mob attack you. Simply heal yourself and avoid doing any damage on your own. Each time the mob attacks you will see a small drop in the mobs health as well.

garath
02-11-2007, 01:30 AM
After all the recent drama following the 2/7 changes I figured a good way forward for those who want to stick with the class might be to compare notes and compare strategies.

Two reasons for the:
1) A lot of people are claiming that the class is currently unable to take on even simple opponents (two dots several levels under themselves) others feel that they are doing quite well in spite of the changes.
2) The time of screaming bloody murder is past. All that needed it now had a chance to cry in our beer a day or two. It's time to look forward. In order to supply valid and useful feedback to sigil on what we feel are the strengths and weakness of our class we all need to understand it as it works after eating our own bit 'o kryptonite.

To try and start off, here’s 5 different tips to soloing with a Disciple today:
- The magic level 18
For a lot of people short of 18, I think they a feeling the changes a lot more then players higher up. Prior to 18 you’re still lacking a number of very useful tools that imho help form the class into a more viable form. The second buff (The Crow 1) gives a large boost to AR, your first DOT, a nice help with our reduced damage and most importantly, clarity. Trade 3 Jin for a crit hit.

If your not 18 yet, take heart, there’s a few new abilities in your future that'll help you get by.

- Love thy clarity
Clarity before the patch was kinda redundant. With a 50-60% crit rate, why bother spending 3 jin for yet another crit. With the changes its one of our strongest abilities. Clarity means that you can get of a crit heal and a nice damage burt off when your really need it. The more I get used to clarity, the less I’m using cyclone and EoL.

- HoT 'n DoT's
With the reduction in dam and healing our combat style has changed from over running enemies with bulldozer like damage to something more akin to outlasting the opponent by applying consistent damage while making good use of self heals. This means that Heal and Damage over time becomes important tools to adding that extra that'll tip. Always try to use your negative bond, Blessed Wind and Knife Hand early in the fight and when possible renew them to keep the healing and damage coming.

- Boosting Blessed Wind or Knifes Hand
The benefit of Clarity is not just a matter of opening finishing moves; it also allows you to pick a move that will cause a crit hit in the first place. Attacks with secondary effect will also have the secondary effects increased by a crit.

For example, my blessed wind normally ticks for 36. If I'm activating BW with a crit, I now self heal for 55 pr tick. So when you use clarity always consider what skill your want to use with it. Combining BW with clarity allows you to increase the BW healing to almost pre-nerf levels.

- End drain is not our only negative bond.
It seems that almost everyone tend to use the endurance draining debuff. Often the damage bond can work better in my experience. While I don't have number on the pro's and con's as far as I can tell, the more damage your opponent is likely to cause the better the damage causing bonds is likely to work. In essence it will give you a second DoT. An interesting way to test it is to use the de-buff and let the mob attack you. Simply heal yourself and avoid doing any damage on your own. Each time the mob attacks you will see a small drop in the mobs health as well.

Great tips.. I've found a lot of the similar. The only thing I'll disagree with you on is the bond. Leech's grasp > Touch of Woe by a landslide. While every little bit helps of course, Touch of Woe really IS just a little bit. When I was originally deciding on the benefit of Touch of Woe vs the cost in Jin, I pulled two mobs and tagged the first with Touch of Woe and turned to a second mob. By the time I killed the second mob (maybe 45 seconds), the first mob barely had 1/20th of its hp gone from Touch of Woe. I repeated those results across a few different mobs. Touch of woe is a very small amount of damage. Compared to the endurance gain from Leech's Grasp, it seems a no brainer.

Celidya
02-11-2007, 04:56 AM
Well those that are claiming they can't take 2 dots mobs lower than them are just lieing imo, or really, really playing the class as an offensive fighter and not a healer. I just can't see how it could happen when i can take easily 2 dots 6 lvl higher than me, 3 dots 3 lvl higher than me and 4 dots of the same lvl as long as they don't have a 5sec+ stun. Even naked when i try to get my corpse i can kill 3 dots mobs higher than me.

I just play this class as a healer usually, so i focus more on healing than dps.

FYI i'm lvl 14 now but had another disciple lvl 17 (yeah i made 2 of them to change race, for RP purpose).
I pull with the end drain (the other bond is a damage shield like that barely do 1 or 2 dmg per hit... I use it only on high lvl mobs that i miss most of the time), then just spam our detaunt (20 end for 1 jin), heal with the small energy based heal (the one with 1,5sec cast) whenever i get to 50% hp. After 4 or 5 heals i turn my jin into mana, and that's it. Sometimes i use the lao'jin instant heal if there is a damage spike, but usually with 4 skills used and auto attack i can kill about anything, welcome to the new disciple world.

That said, i stopped playing my disciple in the adventuring sphere, i just wait for Sigil to realize how this patch sucked and maybe bring back some fun to the class. If they don't do then, i'll just leave this game i think, i already had to delete my bloodmage because they increased by 100% the mana cost between beta and release, so we went from a mana effective class to waiting for mana after each mob. Now i enjoyed my disciple and they totally destroyed it, i don't feel like rerolling again to find a class that can be fun, since it seems that the nerfs go before the debug in their to do list.

Zind
02-11-2007, 05:24 AM
Well those that are claiming they can't take 2 dots mobs lower than them are just lieing imo, or really, really playing the class as an offensive fighter and not a healer. I just can't see how it could happen when i can take easily 2 dots 6 lvl higher than me, 3 dots 3 lvl higher than me and 4 dots of the same lvl as long as they don't have a 5sec+ stun. Even naked when i try to get my corpse i can kill 3 dots mobs higher than me...

Sorry, but I have to call BS with that statement, at least the "I can solo a lvl17 3-dot while naked" comment. =)

Things change later on from my experience, fighting a lvl24 2-dot now at lvl24 is much different than before. I really do not care if I could go out an kill a lvl24 3-dot because I am sure it would be a total waste of my time. Nor do I really care if other people come on these forums and say they can still take on +3 three-dots or +0/1 four-dots after the patch. It doesn't change anything in regards to the changes to the class being too much.

Dashel
02-11-2007, 07:38 AM
How I'm playing at 25:

Pull with bond, usually Leech, but if it's a fast hitting mob I may go with Woe. Immediately hit Dodge.
First mob shot at me is Dodged, hit either Kiss of Slug or Sun Fist if I need Jin badly, usually Sulg though.
BW, gets the HoT going. This is more a habit than anything.
Soul Cutter > Void Hand > Knife Hand for EoM
Mix in an energy heal if needed at any point up to here, then
BW, Cyclone, Void for EoL
Knife hand when it drops, cycle Soul Cutter and Void hand. Also the occasional Dodge > Slug/Sun depending on need.
Energy heals or Lao Jin Flare as needed whenever throughout the fight.

I just hit 26 last night so we'll see if that changes anything. interested to see how Ox bond works.

Zind
02-11-2007, 10:55 PM
How I'm playing at 25:

Pull with bond, usually Leech, but if it's a fast hitting mob I may go with Woe. Immediately hit Dodge.
First mob shot at me is Dodged, hit either Kiss of Slug or Sun Fist if I need Jin badly, usually Sulg though.
BW, gets the HoT going. This is more a habit than anything.
Soul Cutter > Void Hand > Knife Hand for EoM
Mix in an energy heal if needed at any point up to here, then
BW, Cyclone, Void for EoL
Knife hand when it drops, cycle Soul Cutter and Void hand. Also the occasional Dodge > Slug/Sun depending on need.
Energy heals or Lao Jin Flare as needed whenever throughout the fight.

I just hit 26 last night so we'll see if that changes anything. interested to see how Ox bond works.

Not to nick-pick here, but it seems to me using Clarity just before using BW would be the best option for you. You'll crit BW (heal will crit too), and you'll get access to FP / WL. A non-crit BW is really a waste of End (unless you have high Vit)