Hardware sound mode bug isolated- please confirm my findings

[Denidil Taureran]

This fix is no longer needed - Sigil has posted a fixed OpenAL library

[edit: A superior solution has been found- See end of post!]

Here is the report - i'm emailing this to customer support.

A well known problem with OpenAL hardware mode with Vanguard is that the gain on near and far sounds seems to be completely incorrect - I do not have this problem with other openAL games on my machine so I did some digging and looked at the properies of the OpenAL32.dll in Vanguard's /bin folder - it says it's OpenAL32 2.0.1.0 with comments "Open AL 1.1" - all my other games use my OpenAL32.dll from c:\windows\system32 (Win XP 64bit w/ OpenAL SDK installed) and work fine and it reports Standard OpenAL(TM) Implementation 6.14.357.13 with no comments

I attempted to run the game in hardware mode with the copy of the .dll in the vanguard directlry renamed to OpenAL32.dll.bak (i did the renaming after i let the patcher run incase the patcher would have wanted to overwrite it). The Game loaded normally and sound was definantely in hardware mode as i can hear a distinct difference in the music on my machine (Sound Blaster Live! Value). I immediately noticed that music is working correctly in game which it never had before in the game with Generic Hardware mode enabled with Vanguard's OpenAL32.dll active, you could only hear it very close to the regional source. other errors like incorrectly volumed npc voices and combat sounds seem to disapear as well - so I think it's a fair conclusion that the copy of openAL included with the game is a bad version.

Please remove the openAL dll's from the game directory so we can use our system-level openAL as it appears to work correctly. I tried everything i could think of and everything seems to confirm my findings - that the openAL libraries included in the game are a bad copy. Please remove them from the patcher and remove them from the directory and make everyone install updated openAL libraries, as some of us already have, so that openAL audio mode works correctly.

Steps to reproduce the test:
A) Have an updated copy of the OpenAL install on your system from http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=46
B) Open the vanguard launcher and get passed the patcher section
C) Rename <vanguard install dir>/bin/openAL32.dll to openAL32.dll.bak
D) Open vgclient.ini in the same directory - find [ALAudio.ALAudioSubsystem] and confirm that key "OpenALDeviceName" is set to "Generic Hardware"
E) Run the game, adjust your volume settings as you like - and play

Please follow the steps to reproduce the test, and see if you can confirm my findings.


If you run the patcher with your OpenAL32.dll renamed it WILL download it again fresh - hence why you MUST be past the patch point

(people helping confirm only need to worry about what is after the bolded line)

[Edit]
Superior Solution - You can all thank Tibar for tipping me off on this one.


Use Vanguard's copy of the OpenAL32.dll
Switch into "Generic Hardware" audio mode, restart the game (required for the setting to take affect)
Make sure your card is affected (if it's not, stop here) - at this point you should see a 10fps boost - I did (Even over the cards drivers internal OpenAL)
If you're affected go into dx diag and turn audio acceleration down a notch - you should still get the FPS boost, but this reportedly fixes the problem...

please confirm this fix - i have sent an update to Sigil on this issue

[Denidil Taureran]

Come on people - if you want bugs fixed, let's help isolate them so we can give detailed descriptions to the devs, it speeds up their job

[Rourke]

Come on people - if you want bugs fixed, let's help isolate them so we can give detailed descriptions to the devs, it speeds up their job

hi..your way to smart for me sir.../grabs stick and pokes pc.

I'm happy when type without mistakes. And i just corrected that sentence 3 times.

[Denidil Taureran]

all you have to do is follow the step by step and use your ears! :D

[Denidil Taureran]

sorry for the bumps mods, trying to get SOMEONE, ANYONE to confirm me findings

[visceral monkey]

Ok, I can confirm. My ambient music now returns after going into combat mode and having combat music play. So now under generic hardware, both are working correctly when I use your fix.

Nice find. A+

[Denidil Taureran]

awesomeness. now hopefully the devs follow my recommendation!

[visceral monkey]

awesomeness. now hopefully the devs follow my recommendation!

Haha, yea, well, we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon. But at least we have another work around thanks to your efforts. I've never seen a mmorpg that relied so much on its own users for game fixes. This makes me a sad panda.

[Denidil Taureran]

actually i've seen them fix bugs i reported - they're relatively quickly

instead of listening ot my recommendation that MAY instead include the up-to-date OpenAL 6.xx DLL but i think that would leave people with newer creative boards (Audigy and later) irritated because i believe those cards implement openAL in their drivers for superior hardware acceleration

[Atoyota]

Haha, yea, well, we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon. But at least we have another work around thanks to your efforts. I've never seen a mmorpg that relied so much on its own users for game fixes. This makes me a sad panda.

QFT

[visceral monkey]

I've cross posted to VN and the "official" support forums as well. It might allow people to use their soundcards in hardware mode for a few extra FPS.

[DCpunk]

so, will this only work with Creative cards? I ask because I have onboard sound and want to know if this will lend me any assistance as well.

[visceral monkey]

so, will this only work with Creative cards? I ask because I have onboard sound and want to know if this will lend me any assistance as well.

Only one way to find out. The patcher replaces the missing file every time you start the game, so if it doesn't work it should repair itself. Just make sure you download the openAL package first.

[Kilroy]

Here is the report - i'm emailing this to customer support.



Please follow the steps to reproduce the test, and see if you can confirm my findings.


If you run the patcher with your OpenAL32.dll renamed it WILL download it again fresh - hence why you MUST be past the patch point

(people helping confirm only need to worry about what is after the bolded line)

CONFIRMED, all sounds work perfectly with a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty. Now, I am wondering if we should enable EAX in the vanguard.ini file?

My OpenAL32.dll version is newer than the one you link to, but I don't think that will make any difference. Mine is 6.14.415.00

[Digero]

I tried this with my onboard Realtek AC'97 surround-sound audio, and it didn't make any difference. I tried both deleting the OpenAL32.dll and replacing it with the one from C:\Windows\system32 (after the patcher had run).

In all cases, sound volume levels are unaffected by the volume sliders or distance to the sound source. Positional audio (which speaker the sound comes out of) is correct, but the volumes aren't.

Does this only work with Creative sound cards?

[visceral monkey]

I tried this with my onboard Realtek AC'97 surround-sound audio, and it didn't make any difference. I tried both deleting the OpenAL32.dll and replacing it with the one from C:\Windows\system32 (after the patcher had run).

In all cases, sound volume levels are unaffected by the volume sliders or distance to the sound source. Positional audio (which speaker the sound comes out of) is correct, but the volumes aren't.

Does this only work with Creative sound cards?

Hmm, that would suck for non creative users. I have an x-fi myself. Someone should now test the EAX stuff by turning it on and seeing what happens..

[Kanevala]

CONFIRMED, all sounds work perfectly with a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty. Now, I am wondering if we should enable EAX in the vanguard.ini file?

My OpenAL32.dll version is newer than the one you link to, but I don't think that will make any difference. Mine is 6.14.415.00

Vanguard uses 2.0.1.0 or something, and the latest is version 2.1.4.0

http://developer.creative.com/articles/article.asp?cat=1&sbcat=31&top=38&aid=46

Anyway, under Vista Ultimate x64, I replaced the Vanguard OpenAL32.DLL, with the wrap_oal.dll from the System32 folder (renamed to openal32.dll), and I finally have SB X-FI Audio device available now in Vanguard, rather then only Generic Software. Sounds are working properly once more.

Used to replace the dll during beta, but I was running XP back then, not sure why I didn't think of trying under Vista.

[Kanevala]

I tried this with my onboard Realtek AC'97 surround-sound audio, and it didn't make any difference. I tried both deleting the OpenAL32.dll and replacing it with the one from C:\Windows\system32 (after the patcher had run).

In all cases, sound volume levels are unaffected by the volume sliders or distance to the sound source. Positional audio (which speaker the sound comes out of) is correct, but the volumes aren't.

Does this only work with Creative sound cards?

You likely need a OpenAL 1.1 complient audiocard, of which you really don't have any alternatives in anything other then Creative.

Also onboard just doesn't cut it, both quality wise and performance wise in modern games. You'd see a fairly significant difference IMO, if you go with an X-FI over onboard.

[Parallax]

I can confirm this. The ambient sound has been a problem for me since day one, but since I listen to mp3s most of the time I havent worried about it much. I have a creative sound card and software mode does seem to work somewhat better for me, but there is definetly something wrong.

[Denidil Taureran]

Does this only work with Creative sound cards?
should work with any sound card capable of openAL + EAX compliance - 3D sounds, etc.

you will need to adjust your volume sliders, the bug that is being resolved is the the gain being incorrect for sound sources - which is the source of all the hardware mode problems.

from what i could tell instead of gain being correctly set to G it was being set to either 1-G or random

games should really never include libraries like this with them for this reason - the devs didn't technically mess anything up, just the copy of the OpenAL DLL they chose to distribute was messed up, and it probably works right on their systems

[edit]
and as someone noticed - as i suspected this is blocking people with newer SB cards from being able to use Creative's direct hwaccel for their cards.

Please sigil remove the openAL libs from the vanguard directory

[Denidil Taureran]

it seems this bug doesn't occur on systems with X-Fi cards, which may explain why the devs didn't pick up on it before

did some more testing w/ my card and things are DEFINANTLY better with my work around of deleting <vgdir>/bin/openAL32.dll on my Sound Blaster Live!

[visceral monkey]

it seems this bug doesn't occur on systems with X-Fi cards, which may explain why the devs didn't pick up on it before


Actually, I'm using a an X-FI card and it did solve my problem.

[Denidil Taureran]

mm.. which version of the X-Fi do you have? i'll ask my friend next time i'm on.

[visceral monkey]

mm.. which version of the X-Fi do you have? i'll ask my friend next time i'm on.

X-Fi XtremeMusic

[Denidil Taureran]

i bet you she has an Extreme Gamer... the Extreme Music is missing some of the 3D audio componants i think

[Kriptical]

i bet you she has an Extreme Gamer... the Extreme Music is missing some of the 3D audio componants i think

X-FI card and having the issue here too.

[Denidil Taureran]

k - it just explains how the devs could have been unable to discern the bug if they had the version of the X-Fi that works fine. The solution of removing their copy of the OpenAL libs still stands.

[Digero]

You likely need a OpenAL 1.1 complient audiocard, of which you really don't have any alternatives in anything other then Creative.

Also onboard just doesn't cut it, both quality wise and performance wise in modern games. You'd see a fairly significant difference IMO, if you go with an X-FI over onboard.

My onboard sound card sounds great in City of Heroes with 3D sound.

[Denidil Taureran]

My onboard sound card sounds great in City of Heroes with 3D sound.

try my work around

[Jalex]

Why does VG not have a 'detect soundcard' function like other games?

Is the implementation of this on the Sigil to-do list?

[WD34]

This probably isn't the same problem you guys have been talking about but I have a Soundblaser Live! 24 bit sound card and the music many times would just cut off completely in the middle. I went into the performance section of the soundcard and changed the hardware acceleration down a notch to Standard acceleration and the music and everything seems okay now.

[Denidil Taureran]

Why does VG not have a 'detect soundcard' function like other games?

Is the implementation of this on the Sigil to-do list?

because they are not using DirectSound/DirectSound3D as those are deprecated and don't have hardware audio starting in Windows Vista

[Denidil Taureran]

This probably isn't the same problem you guys have been talking about but I have a Soundblaser Live! 24 bit sound card and the music many times would just cut off completely in the middle. I went into the performance section of the soundcard and changed the hardware acceleration down a notch to Standard acceleration and the music and everything seems okay now.

been a long time since i seen problems like this but IIRC that typically means there is a driver problem

[Denidil Taureran]

the issue has been escalated to QA now

i'll post updates as i get them

[DCpunk]

FYI: I was able to do this with my onboard sound card as well. Once I installed the correct DLL to my system32 directory and disabled the one from the VG /vin directory after the patcher ran, I could select my on-board sound from the drop down on the settings panel "sound" tab (which had never been there before, it was just generic hardware or generic software), and sounds worked much better. Unfortunately they didn't sound as nice, but they never "broke" on me. Prior to this change, sound would just drop out on me intermittently and come back within a few seconds to a minute.

[Denidil Taureran]

i'm actually noticing some oddities in sound on my machine with my fix.. but i think it may just be artifacting caused by my ancient Sould Blaster Live! value and is totally unrelated to the fix

[DCpunk]

Yeah, I noticed that my sound was slightly out of synch with combat using this workaround, but I attribute that to it being on-board sound and the processor is at 100% utilization all the time.

[Denidil Taureran]

most onboard sound isn't hardware sound either - you're only getting hardware sound if you see an FPS jump basically - onboard sound typically has little more than a DAC and its driver does all the work in CPU.

[DCpunk]

most onboard sound isn't hardware sound either - you're only getting hardware sound if you see an FPS jump basically - onboard sound typically has little more than a DAC and its driver does all the work in CPU.

I couldn't accurately judge the FPS gain/no-gain scenario because there were just too many people running around where I was. any time a player comes on the screen I get an FPS drop and vice versa.

But yes, I know this. :D

[Denidil Taureran]

with my SB Live! i saw a 5-10fps jump - no matter where i was

[Denidil Taureran]

well.. i'm going to get to test this with another card.. my Sb Live gave up the ghost.. spectacularily - i can only assume something in the main DAC popped.. because i was playing and suddenly BAAAAANG POOOWWW in my headphones (it hurt) and then the sound card went dead

[Trystan365]

well.. i'm going to get to test this with another card.. my Sb Live gave up the ghost.. spectacularily - i can only assume something in the main DAC popped.. because i was playing and suddenly BAAAAANG POOOWWW in my headphones (it hurt) and then the sound card went dead

I'll try it in about 35-45 minutes, when I get home from work. I have an Audigy 2 running XP

[Denidil Taureran]

which audigy 2 in particular? i have two audigy 4s (normal.. not pro, not SE) coming to test it with

[qevlhma]

Anyone have an update on this?

I know it fixes it.. but it is annoying to do every time I play.

Anyone know if the DEVS know this is happening?

[Denidil Taureran]

CS forwarded it to QA last i was informed.

[Trystan365]

Well, I tested it using my plain vanilla Audigy 2. There really wasn't enough of a difference, at least to my old, curmudgeonly ears, to make that much of a difference. The only difference I could really tell is that EAX (directional sounds) seemed a bit better. That's about it.

Not enough of a difference to make me want to go through the whole "changeafilenameafterpatchingthegame" routine every time I play. Once they correct the issue and I can pick my soundcard from the list, I will.

[Denidil Taureran]

the difference is between hardware mode bugged and hardware mode fixed - you should see a performance increase with hardware mode which is why it's better than software mode

[TentacleMan]

do we have to do this process over and over again?

[Denidil Taureran]

until they fix it you have to delete openal32.dll every time you run the patcher

[Zansobar]

The problem is that Vanguard just has the old version of Opengl32.dll on their patcher.

Another easy fix is to just select hardware mode in the vgclient.ini (this never gets overwritten so only need to do it once).

Then copy the opengl32.dll version you have in windows system to the /bin directory overwriting the vanguard one AFTER the patcher has run.


I have an X-fi elite pro and before all i coudl get was software emulation, now when i go in game under audio it lists software AND x-fi card. Select the x-fi card and whammo hardware audio.

So in summary all vanguard needs to do to fix this is replace the old .dll on their patcher with the newer one, they don't need to remove it altogether from their patcher.

[Denidil Taureran]

deleting their copy causes it to use the copy in your system directory

[Knight776]

I just gave this a shot on my system. For reference:

Intel D865GBF motherboard with P4 2.8 GHz HT and 1 GB RAM installed
eVGA 6600LE with 256MB texture memory
Sound Blaster Audigy 1 Gamer sound card

I'm not seeing a significant FPS boost, but the sounds and music are a little better than before in Generic Hardware mode (have SBAudigy 8800 selected.)

It also made the hitching a bit better than it was before. (I know I need more memory and a hotter video card, but I have to make do for now.)

[TentacleMan]

any status update on if this will be fixed>?

[Denidil Taureran]

harassing them for a status update


my new audigy 4 is here.. it pwns my sb live

[Zahrim]

I'm currently using a Creative XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional card. I'll try this tonight, though I have no problems with sound in Vanguard when using the Generic Hardware option. All sounds and music are great, no loss, nothing abnormal.

Good work on finding this and getting it elevated.

[Tibar]

I have experienced sound problems running onboard sound card and using "Hardware device" setup in VG too.
All problems solved by lowering a "Hardware acceleration" a bit in Windows sound settings (Control pannels-> Sound and Audio Devices -> Soud/Advanced-> Performance).
Hope it helps.

[Sylvinstar]

I will be moving my old SB audigy gamer 5.1 to my new system. I am unsure which audigy this is exactly but it was included in my Area 51 alienware around March of 2002.

I will be in game at the latest on this coming monday (provided my new hardware is not DOA). If I have audio problems I will try this fix and post here.

[Denidil Taureran]

I have experienced sound problems running onboard sound card and using "Hardware device" setup in VG too.
All problems solved by lowering a "Hardware acceleration" a bit in Windows sound settings (Control pannels-> Sound and Audio Devices -> Soud/Advanced-> Performance).
Hope it helps.

onboard sound devices 99.99999% of the time are not hardware devices - they just emulate one, but it's all still being done in the CPU

[Tibar]

onboard sound devices 99.99999% of the time are not hardware devices - they just emulate one, but it's all still being done in the CPU

That for sure is true, I am not argue here.
Point is, even I am using onboard sound card and "Hardware device" in VG setup, I get significant FPS boost (compared to "Software device" option), however I got also sound error disscused in this tread doing so (ie sound volume levels were unaffected by the volume sliders and distance to the sound source).
Lowering hw acceleration sorted it out completely and FPS boost remain untouched.

[Denidil Taureran]

just tested something - set to "generic hardware" instead of "sb audigy 4" (or whatever the exact string is for my SB A4) and used the default dll..

saw an FPS boost... didn't see it when it was set to my specific hardware device... what's with that?!

hmm... audio precision with "Generic Hardware" and their DLL is the same as with "SB Audigy 4 [DC00]" (the card drivers copy of the DLL), and the previous grants the FPS boost

tibar's solution may be superior to mine! editing initial post!

[edit]
as posted at the top of the thread now

Superior Solution - You can all thank Tibar for tipping me off on this one.


Use Vanguard's copy of the OpenAL32.dll
Switch into "Generic Hardware" audio mode, restart the game (required for the setting to take affect)
Make sure your card is affected (if it's not, stop here) - at this point you should see a 10fps boost - I did (Even over the cards drivers internal OpenAL)
If you're affected go into dx diag and turn audio acceleration down a notch - you should still get the FPS boost, but this reportedly fixes the problem...

please confirm this fix - i have sent an update to Sigil on this issue

[Zahrim]

I don't even have an OpenAl32.dll in my /bin folder.

[Trystan365]

I will be moving my old SB audigy gamer 5.1 to my new system. I am unsure which audigy this is exactly but it was included in my Area 51 alienware around March of 2002.

The Audigy Gamer was the first generation of the Audigy series. I had one.

[Denidil Taureran]

I don't even have an OpenAl32.dll in my /bin folder.

it's there, check again - the patcher pushes it there

[jonyak]

it's there, check again - the patcher pushes it there

ok I have all of the crap vista beta drivers installed for my x-fi and I don't even have the option of useing hardware sound. this and the fact that the beta drivers apparently don't support sub woofers sucks.

[Molpadia]

I am by no means a tech type person. I am disappointed by the sound in VG. I would like better sound but these type fixes are beyond me. I am slightly dyslexic and have killed OS's before by incorrect syntax.
This fix is not for me, but I have a question. The computer guy that put my system together, and a different independent dealer both said my on board sound was better than a card. I get the idea that is not the case. And I would like suggestions for an audio card that will perform well in Vanguard.

My system is an Abit KN8ultra, AMD dou core 3800 Windows XP64. I would like to keep the cost under $250. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Denidil Taureran]

ok I have all of the crap vista beta drivers installed for my x-fi and I don't even have the option of useing hardware sound. this and the fact that the beta drivers apparently don't support sub woofers sucks.

that's what using vista gets you - every article says "Gamers beware!"

[Denidil Taureran]

The computer guy that put my system together, and a different independent dealer both said my on board sound was better than a card. I get the idea that is not the case.


and your idea is correct - smack both these guys once for being silly

sound blaster Audigy 4 (normal or pro, NOT anything marked "se") or the X-Fi gamer edition.

[Molpadia]

and your idea is correct - smack both these guys once for being silly

sound blaster Audigy 4 (normal or pro, NOT anything marked "se") or the X-Fi gamer edition.

Thanks I appreciate the suggestions.

[Zahrim]

$150 retail for the Creative XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional or $120 Newegg.com price...best soundcard out there for under $200.

[Tomcrit]

I am by no means a tech type person. I am disappointed by the sound in VG. I would like better sound but these type fixes are beyond me. I am slightly dyslexic and have killed OS's before by incorrect syntax.
This fix is not for me, but I have a question. The computer guy that put my system together, and a different independent dealer both said my on board sound was better than a card. I get the idea that is not the case. And I would like suggestions for an audio card that will perform well in Vanguard.

My system is an Abit KN8ultra, AMD dou core 3800 Windows XP64. I would like to keep the cost under $250. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I would suggest an X-fi any type but am unsure about driver support in XP64. If they have drivers then it is the best option.

And kick those dealers in the nuts, bloody morons.

[Denidil Taureran]

if anyone needs to contact me for issues reguarding this thread please use the private message feature

[DaWolf]

This fix is confirmed to work to correct the problem with Windows Vista that Vanguard will only show "Generic Software" as an option in the audio settings menu.

Hope they update the dll soon, it's annoying to delete that file everytime.

[Majin]

I was having troubles in Generic Hardware Mode - the ambient sound came only from one speaker (directional) i.e. when i was turning around - the ambient music also moved from speaker 1 to 2, 3 etc... very annoying

using dxdiag and setting the hardware acceleration of my audigy to "normal" fixed the problem

im using the kX drivers btw - which are suprior to the audigy ones

[Fozzik]

I'm moving this thread to the technical issues forum (since I had trouble finding it myself), and giving it a sticky. Hopefully Sigil will fix this up soon.

EDIT: Oh, and just to provide more info... removing the OpenAL32.dll from my Vanguard directory caused my soundcard to be selectable in the ingame settings for the first time, before I had only generic software and generic hardware to choose from. It seems to have fixed a few sound glitches (although not all), and may have improved my performance (a little early to say that for sure). Just the fact that it causes my soundcard to show up in the dropdown list means it is working better, as far as I'm concerned. ;)

I'm using a Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic with driver version 5.12.0001.1181 (that's what dxdiag reports, anyway). I updated my OpenAL. I'm going to try enabling EAX in the ini file now and see if I notice anything.

[Fozzik]

Ok, after playing with it all day yesterday, I think using the openal32.dll file that's outside the game directory was causing intermittant crashes of the game. I switched back to the game's openal32.dll file... and still crashed a couple times until I noticed that my X-Fi was still set as the audio device in the ini file. Once I set the ini back to "generic hardware" and used the openal32.dll that comes from the patcher... the crashes seem to have stopped.

It sucks, but I think at least in my case, more work is needed than just replacing the dll file. :( Having my actual soundcard show up in the drop down was nice, but not nice enough where I want to crash to desktop randomly.

I'll test more today with everything in the default config and see if I have any crashes.

[Denidil Taureran]

are you getting correct audio + 10fps boost with generic hardware mode and their dll?

the original problem was audio was not correct for many people in hardware mode with their DLL (gain was 1/G instead of G)

[Fozzik]

I know I have various sound bugs... but I'm not really sure what you mean by not correct.

The most obvious thing, as I mentioned, is that I have a soundcard (which could be considered industry standard) and the game does not detect it. It only gives me the choice of generic hardware or generic software. Removing the game's dll file fixed that and the X-Fi showed up in the list. Just on that fact alone, I would say there is something wrong with their dll file and how it interacts with my drivers/soundcard.

Other than that, I can't say for sure. I would say my sound works pretty good, and I don't notice a performance difference regardless of what I do. So I guess the X-Fi is working even in "generic hardware" mode... and the little bugs are just individual things that need to be fixed.

One example is that every time I relog, the diplomacy sounds are reset to loud regardless of where the slider is set. moving the slider causes it to start working and quiets things right down until I relog.

[Denidil Taureran]

the 10 FPS increase is hardware mode vs software mode

the "not correct" was related to the gain on sounds being incorrect - almost never hear music, hear voices from far away npcs, etc

[Fozzik]

the 10 FPS increase is hardware mode vs software mode

the "not correct" was related to the gain on sounds being incorrect - almost never hear music, hear voices from far away npcs, etc

I believe I do have some of those problems. I'll hear emotes from NPCs like they were right next to me when they are not anywhere near.

Also, music tends to be fairly intermittent, and as I said, I've got the problems with some sliders resetting on relog.

I'm not sure what fixes what... just saying I seemed to be crashing after I removed the dll from the Bin folder and selected X-Fi from the drop down list. I need to test more with things back at default to make sure the crashes weren't being caused by something else.

[Denidil Taureran]

did you make sure to delete vanguard's copy of the dll every time you ran the patcher? i've seen absolutely no crashing related to this issue

[Fozzik]

Yes. I did.

We're using different soundcards, I believe, as well as different drivers and all our other hardware/software is likely somewhat different. So...the effects might not be the same. ;)

Once I test some tonight and ensure that I'm not crashing, I'll try doing it again and reproducing the crashes (the timing of the crashes seems to be random, but I'm just trying to nail down IF they occur).

[Aemun]

I cannot even get a "generic hardware" option to show up. I tried changing the .ini file to say generic hardware, but the game just crashes if I delete the file without it. I am using vista and a Xi-Fi Xtreme gamer.

[Fozzik]

I still seem to crash randomly even with things back on default (usually about once for a 3-4 hour play session) so I guess the crashes may not have been related to this sound fix. *shrug*

There are still a lot of bugs...maybe sound is just low on the priority list or something. Definitely frustrating.

[Kanevala]

I still seem to crash randomly even with things back on default (usually about once for a 3-4 hour play session) so I guess the crashes may not have been related to this sound fix. *shrug*

There are still a lot of bugs...maybe sound is just low on the priority list or something. Definitely frustrating.

I've disabled sounds alltogether until either Creative cooks up some drivers that doesn't BSOD Vista, or Sigil works some magic on their sound implementation.

I went from having BSODs often to very rarely/almost none now without sounds.

X-FI Fatality, December beta driver. Windows Vista x64

[PadOLion]

Guess I found a better way for Vista users than copying the OpenAL dll everytime. Posted my instructions here: http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13125

[Vobarn]

...

Superior Solution - You can all thank Tibar for tipping me off on this one.


Use Vanguard's copy of the OpenAL32.dll
Switch into "Generic Hardware" audio mode, restart the game (required for the setting to take affect)
Make sure your card is affected (if it's not, stop here) - at this point you should see a 10fps boost - I did (Even over the cards drivers internal OpenAL)
If you're affected go into dx diag and turn audio acceleration down a notch - you should still get the FPS boost, but this reportedly fixes the problem...

please confirm this fix - i have sent an update to Sigil on this issue

Ok, in all seriousness. I cannot thank you enough for this. This alone has been a game saver for me. I went from 0-10 in towns to 15-35!! Wilderness from 10-30 to 25-60!! On Balanced at 1280 x 1024.

Hitching IS still there but the fps gain is incredible.

This is AMAZING!!!

Thank you so much.

~~SIGIL~~
Give these guys a cookie! :)

[frash]

this works. i got my x-fi soundcard to work and i jumped up 10-20 fps in halgarad.

[Denidil Taureran]

a user over at FoH guild forums did a thrashing cause analysis more in depth than this thread was with sound - top post on this page (http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27421-missing-things-vanguard-3.html)

so hopefully now we will see some huge fixes in the thrashing department

PS: Vista should NOT be used for gaming, roll back to your previous version of windows

[DCpunk]

a user over at FoH guild forums did a thrashing cause analysis more in depth than this thread was with sound - top post on this page (http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27421-missing-things-vanguard-3.html)

so hopefully now we will see some huge fixes in the thrashing department

PS: Vista should NOT be used for gaming, roll back to your previous version of windows

Interesting. Thanks for that link, Den.

[Xerin]

Switch into "Generic Hardware" audio mode, restart the game (required for the setting to take affect)

How do I do this when I don't get a "Generic Hardware" option? I have Vista 64 and an X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatil1ty Professional card, and the ONLY option I have is software mode.

Any hints?

[Denidil Taureran]

How do I do this when I don't get a "Generic Hardware" option? I have Vista 64 and an X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatil1ty Professional card, and the ONLY option I have is software mode.

Any hints?

you don't - reason why bolded - Vista

nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story

[Xerin]

you don't - reason why bolded - Vista

nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story

So you're saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to get sound hardware support in Vista 64?

On your generalization, I have to disagree...everything else runs completely fine for me in Vista 64. Even the sound works fine, it's just that it would be nice to get hardware acceleration if that is available.

[Denidil Taureran]

So you're saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to get sound hardware support in Vista 64?

at this point it is - DirectSound is depricated, no hardware support so any OpenAL->DirectSound passthrough cannot use Hardware

and creative's drivers (like most gaming hardware drivers) are not yet ready for gaming on vista

[digitalfreak]

a user over at FoH guild forums did a thrashing cause analysis more in depth than this thread was with sound - top post on this page (http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27421-missing-things-vanguard-3.html)

so hopefully now we will see some huge fixes in the thrashing department

PS: Vista should NOT be used for gaming, roll back to your previous version of windows

According to the VG coder that looked at that list, none of the suggestions will make a performance difference... :rolleyes:

[Denidil Taureran]

According to the VG coder that looked at that list, none of the suggestions will make a performance difference... :rolleyes:

i'm normally the first to defend them

but i call bullshit

[Fozzik]

I'm really hoping at some point Nino sees this thread. It would be nice to get these things addressed. Quite obvious issues when I can delete a file from the Vanguard directory and suddenly my sound card shows up in the drop down list.

Also, the general bugginess of the sound in the game gets pretty annoying. Things at the wrong volume levels... volume adjustments not saving...music cutting in and out abruptly...sound effects coming and going at odd times... The hitching/loading issues (although I'm sure that's only partly sound related...more about art asset loading).

Anyway. Just surprising we haven't seen any dev feedback on this.

By the way, much love for Nino...the music is absolutely outstanding. I just wish things worked a little better. ;)

[qevlhma]

It is a bit crazy that they cannot fix this..

[Denidil Taureran]

It is a bit crazy that they cannot fix this..

apparently this issue doesn't only manifest in vanguard

[qevlhma]

apparently this issue doesn't only manifest in vanguard

Either way the fact that it fixes it for me to open a newer OPENAL file means they could just update the openal file and it would be fine.

This is STILL broken.

[Kenze]

Either way the fact that it fixes it for me to open a newer OPENAL file means they could just update the openal file and it would be fine.

This is STILL broken.

http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/announcements/9146-vanguard-build-1789-patch-notes-3-a.html

- Updated our version of OpenAL to a much newer version. This should now properly enumerate your sound devices and allow you to choose your native device (such as an X-Fi sound card) instead of just using the generic hardware or software devices (which are still available). Remember that you will need to completely quit out of the game and restart it after changing your sound device (found in the Audio tab of our Settings window) for the game to start using that new device. We recommend that you make sure you have the latest drivers for your sound card before selecting a device other than "Generic Hardware" or "Generic Software" and that you switch back to your previous sound device if you experience sound problems with the new device. You may want to compare sound quality and frame rate with each device to determine the best choice for you. If for some reason the game will not run after you have selected a new sound device, you can edit your VGClient.ini (found in your Vanguard\bin directory) and change the line that starts with "OpenALDeviceName=" to read "OpenALDeviceName=Generic Software" then save that file and try Vanguard again.

[sudanger]

For those who only have "Generic Software" as option, I found that my Logitech Webcams Micro disabled this setting. Deactivating the BuiltIn Micro in the hardware manager brought the "Generic Hardware" option back to life.

[ZephyrVG]

you don't - reason why bolded - Vista

nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story

Obviously your statement comes from a complete lack of first hand experience with Vista 64-bit edition. I get the same issue of software rendering as my only option with Vanguard and I'm running XP. Should I stop running XP? No of course not. This is a Vanguard issue and not a Vista issue. I'm sorry I have to be the one to break it to you but Vista runs most games very well. I've built 2 Vista 64 bit systems personally and I think the OS is quite solid. Heck you can even load RAID drivers directly from a USB memory stick during the OS load sequence (goodbye floppies forever). It's easy to speculate and dream up scenarios of what you think is going on, it's another matter completely to do the research yourself, work with the problem personally, and draw your own educated conclusions. I don't want to be harsh here but unless you have a Vista system in your house that doesn't run games, I don't want to hear any more incorrect assumptions made about this OS (or any other computer related issue) from you.

Good day sir

P.S. Y2K was overblown, not buying gas on tuesdays does not send a message to gas companies, replying to chain emails does not give you good luck, and the government is not spraying you with chemicals from commercial jetliners.

[Denidil Taureran]

Your PS was insulting, and my statement was based off the warnings of all the major gaming sites

if you wish to constructively contribute to the thread, then post again, otherwise GTFO

[ginfest]

Let's see, for me, for the past few weeks VSOH constantly crashes with :
(before this it was another series of problems, dating back to beta(and Windows XP)-it's been 3+ months of something going wrong with VSOH)

[03/24/07 19:27:57] ERROR: Error: VirtualAlloc FAILED for 65536 bytes
[03/24/07 19:27:57] FATAL: Critical: Ran out of virtual memory. This condition may be caused by a lack of available space on your hard-drive.

Day after day, hour after hour, no matter what settings are used. A /flush will recreate it or I can stay in one chunk, but try and move thru multiple areas, or just spend 1 hour+ actually doing something in that one area and BAM-
WTF good is a seamless world that "works" like that?

I have tried PF both set and system managed, on both the system drive and a second HD, and both have 100+ GB free!

But starting with 24hrs plus of Orthos and Memtest, then 3D Mark06 for hours at a time, no crashes. EQ2, LOTR online (beta) Medieval 2 TW, Stalker, MVP Baseball 2005 with the 2007 mod, NWN2, AOE3, Armed Assault, SH4, Company of Heroes, shall I go on :)
All are working well in Vista (x86) and with the Nv 8800GTS(640MB) and the 100.65 WHQL drivers!

But the crashes are Vista/Nv the boogyman, aliens, the whole worlds fault right:rolleyes: not Sigil /VSOH.

[Denidil Taureran]

wrong thread

[ginfest]

wrong thread

Actually after statements like this :

"
you don't - reason why bolded - Vista
nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story"

-I really doubt whether your advice should be heeded:D
Or did you mean that only VSoH sound problems should be blamed on Vista?

[Denidil Taureran]

Actually after statements like this :

"
you don't - reason why bolded - Vista
nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story"

-I really doubt whether your advice should be heeded:D
Or did you mean that only VSoH sound problems should be blamed on Vista?

my recommendation for the avoidance of vista is based on the recommendations of multiple premier gaming sites, the observation of the expiriences of many users, knowledge of operating system driver problems (like no creative drivers for 64bit vista yet), etc.

Sigil has updated their OpenAL based on the information with gathered in this thread, so clearly someone is listening to my input.

If you personally disagree with my advisory to avoid vista for now, then that's your own problem and don't come crying to me when you run into a problem.

[Echonaz]

After the last patch, my older system was going into full lockup periodically. I am also running a SB Live! on that machine. After downloading the OAL from the link you provided, I tried your fix.

Performance was increased a bit in terms of framerate, but I was getting strange audio glitches, such as random noises and ticking. The ambient music would also suddenly start playing for no reason (have it set to 0). Combat music would play 30 seconds after combat ended (have it set to 0 too). I reset all my sliders, but that didnt really help.

Still locking up as well, and it does still seem to be a sound issue.:cry:

[Denidil Taureran]

SB Lives just can't cut it in vanguard, i know from expirience

[Jindrisek]

I tried this and got about 10 to 15 FPS boost. My FPS would never go past 35 before, and now it goes up to 50 sometimes. Also, the sound seems much cleaner, and transitions between battle music and different zone music is much cleaner. I also am not getting a problem where the melody and rythem of a song goes out of sync when FPS dips. That was the most annoying. I am using an SB Audigy 2 with the drivers that come on the CD.

[Fozzik]

Be aware that as of last patch (last week), Sigil is now including and updated file on the patcher...and in theory I guess...this tweak should no longer be needed.

Mileage may vary, I guess, depending on card... but I know I get the same results by default now that I used to get by applying this tweak.

[Jindrisek]

Actually after statements like this :

"
you don't - reason why bolded - Vista
nobody should be running vanguard (or any other game for that matter) in vista - end of story"

-I really doubt whether your advice should be heeded:D
Or did you mean that only VSoH sound problems should be blamed on Vista?

I was having that problem alot during beta 2 and 3. Installing Vanguard on my hard drive only left 6GB, and apparantly my hard drive was struggling. I bought a new larger hard drive and stopped having the problem. I don't know if it was because it was a larger hard drive, or new hard drive.

I think the problem is vanguard file fragment alot while its running.

[Jindrisek]

Be aware that as of last patch (last week), Sigil is now including and updated file on the patcher...and in theory I guess...this tweak should no longer be needed.

Mileage may vary, I guess, depending on card... but I know I get the same results by default now that I used to get by applying this tweak.

I'm gonna use this fix still... something doesn't seem right without using it. The file properties are different, its not the same file.

[Denidil Taureran]

I'm gonna use this fix still... something doesn't seem right without using it. The file properties are different, its not the same file.

no, it's not the same file, but it's a property working one that passes through to your real one if you configure it to do so by selecting your card in the dropdown.

[Fozzik]

Unsticking... thanks for the all the work on this Denidil... They finally heard you. Hopefully the improvements and bug fixes will continue. :)

[Jindrisek]

no, it's not the same file, but it's a property working one that passes through to your real one if you configure it to do so by selecting your card in the dropdown.

I still can't get my video card to show up in the audio settings. But if I delete the OpenAL32.dll file after the patcher and before clicking on PLAY, I get 10 to 15 FPS increase.

Maybe the new file from the patcher is better than the old one, but I still get extra performance from deleting it.

[Fozzik]

There are most definitely still bugs, and some hardware/software configs are going to be worse than others. Definitely post specifics here, or report them using the /bug tool in game. I'm sure they'll continue fixing things as they can.

[Denidil Taureran]

I still can't get my video card to show up in the audio settings. But if I delete the OpenAL32.dll file after the patcher and before clicking on PLAY, I get 10 to 15 FPS increase.

nice error :P

what sound card do you have.. try putting it into general hardware in game

[Jindrisek]

LOL... I've been thinking of buying a new video card and shopping around online so my fingers must be telling me something...

I have a SB Audigy 2, wich isn't that new but also not a bad card.

I think the only way I can run on hardware is by deleting that file and maybe that forces the game to run on hardware?

[Denidil Taureran]

I still can't get my video card to show up in the audio settings. But if I delete the OpenAL32.dll file after the patcher and before clicking on PLAY, I get 10 to 15 FPS increase.

Maybe the new file from the patcher is better than the old one, but I still get extra performance from deleting it.

deleting that file forces the game to use your driver's openAL instead of it's internal- but now it's internal can passthru to your drivers without being deleted....

what operating system are you on?

[Kurron Nye]

deleting that file forces the game to use your driver's openAL instead of it's internal- but now it's internal can passthru to your drivers without being deleted....

what operating system are you on?

I still have this problem too. I am using Windows XP x64 Edition

I just wind up turning sound off completely as this is no longer worth the hassle.