Forage / Fletching

[Vobarn]

Ok, here we go. I have a level 10 Wood Elf Ranger. I have been "Foraging" now for 1 hr. and 10 mins. and am tired of doing it and frustrated to no end. After this length of time I have made exactly 45 arrows... no ... seriously a WHOPPING 45!!!

After 1 hr. and 10 mins. I have made 45 arrows (9 actual combinations of 1 of each of the required ingredients.) I have 5 x "Pristine Chicken Feathers", 0 x "Flimsy Reed", and 6 x "Jagged Rocks" left over because I just can't get "Flimsy Reed" to come as regularly as the other 2.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever wasted my time on. Aside from the fact I am foraging useless "Night Eye's" (someone told me I can't use till I'm level 35) and "Root Grub's" (while I like the idea... don't ya think they should stack?)

I am all for having to forage to make my own arrows. But, I do not believe that by combining the 3 components required yields enough to justify wasting time on this. Either make it so one combination yields more (20x arrows = 1 of each of the three components (as I believe it was in beta) or increase the rate/amount of foraged components received from hitting the "Forage" button.

This IS my damage you're playing with. If I am going to have to waste (at this rate) 4 hours per night "Foraging" in order to play solo for 2 hours without having to start "Foraging" again.

/hypothetical_rant on
I say make it so casters/healers must "Collect" magical essence from their surroundings in order to create an expendable item used EVERYTIME they cast. They (as we as Rangers can) could of course purchase vendor expendable items that are not as "potent" or strong as the "Collected" ones but still "useful" to a degree.
Or make it so tanks have to collect oil from shrubs/bushes/animals to keep their gear from "oxidizing" or they need to have to constantly "oil" their gear/weapons so they are 100% effective after EVERY fight (of course we Rangers would be affected by the tank suggestion here thereby putting us in the position of needing to forage for arrows and keep our gear/weapons in tip-top shape, but surely you get my point)
/hypothetical_rant off

Before someone starts, NO I do not feel this is much of a stretch. Afterall you are talking about my ability to kill mobs effectively.

Ok, now you may all complain and bicker about the "hypothetical" part of my post. Hopefully, it will be used as a "decent" argument for increasing the yield from combining the 3 items OR increasing the amount foraged from a single click of the button.

Thank you for reading my long post. But, I felt it needed to be said.

Also, this post brought to you by the letter "V" (why "V" you ask? because "V" never gets the recognition it so rightly deserves)

[Odball]

Don't really play a ranger, but those arrows are suppose to be better than baught for your level, so they are suppose to be rare and used under select circumstances as you see fit. Not a way to get free arrows anytime you please, and thus make you even more overpowered by removing a cash sink, and negating the need to go into town despite the fact you have to anyways to repair..

Wild will correct if I am wrong.

[Vobarn]

Don't really play a ranger, but those arrows are suppose to be better than baught for your level, ...
Like the rings sorcerors can summon? +10 Int / +10 Wis and See Invis or Water Breathing... they get that for the cost of mana and can do it at will. Those are definitely better than bought or quested for the level. If you could even afford a ring like that. (Jewelry's a bit expensive on Targonor; saw lvl 12 rings starting at 40s.) Talk about not having to spend money.

...Not a way to get free arrows anytime you please, and thus make you even more overpowered by removing a cash sink, ...
again I say... Like the rings sorcerors can summon? +10 Int / +10 Wis and See Invis or Water Breathing... they get that for the cost of mana and can do it at will. Give me a button that summons arrows. Or a rockin' bow if you want to compare summoned gear to summoned gear. As for the "...overpowered..." part of that, I don't crit on my Ranger anywhere near what I do on my sorcerer of the same level. My highest crit by level 11 on my Sorc was 960 (I wrote that one down to brag to my buddy later when he got on.. lol.) My Ranger's only seen high 500's at max.

I may be way off base here but I just don't think this system of "Forage" is working like it should be (see initial post for my "opinion" on this.)

[Loreley27]

Well, it was posted by a dev at VG Rangers I believe that rangers in VG are not supposed to be mainly played ranged. As a lvl 23 ranger, I'd say that foraging is a nice thing to do in between - not exclusively - when having a downtime of some kind. You get out some nice arrows that are better than those that can be bought for free, and besides, you dont really need that many.
In my opinion, you will not pull in a group because initial aggro is to important to be on the tank (if you have one), so at most you will hit the mob with crit shot + chain and be done with it - melee costing less endurance for more utility, damage and less money ;).

[Anthal]

Foraged/Fletched arrows aren't supposed to be used for grinding, they are special circumstance arrows. You use them when engaging a boss, or ambushing someone in PvP. Go buy regular Flight arrows for grinding experience, faction, or coin.

I will note that the rate seems alot better at 200+ archery, but still not fantastic.

[Vobarn]

Well, it was posted by a dev at VG Rangers I believe that rangers in VG are not supposed to be mainly played ranged. ...

I sure hope that's wrong. My level 10 sorc takes more of a beating than my ranger does at level 10.

Foraged/Fletched arrows aren't supposed to be used for grinding, they are special circumstance arrows. You use them when engaging a boss, or ambushing someone in PvP. Go buy regular Flight arrows for grinding experience, faction, or coin.

So I can keep different full quivers in my backpacks ready to VERY quickly and on-the-fly switch out to adjust to those "special circumstances" you mentioned above?

It just seems that this "idea" about the fletching arrows being used for "special circumstances" couldn't of been the original thought here. I mean we used to get something like 20 arrows per combination of foraged materials in beta didn't we?

I just can't see this being the way it's meant to be. I have to spend money everytime I attack a mob? If this IS the way it's supposed to be then the damage that is inflicted needs to be jacked WAY up. I don't see other classes having to purchase expendable items used everytime they attack/cast on a mob. If I have to pay to hurt the mob (other than repairing my gear as everyone does) then I want INSANE damage. That or make it so all casters have to purchase magic essence they have to carry around which is used up per cast.

[Odball]

I sure hope that's wrong. My level 10 sorc takes more of a beating than my ranger does at level 10.


Your right, they should enhance caster spell range to match that of ranger's bow abilities to even things out.

So I can keep different full quivers in my backpacks ready to VERY quickly and on-the-fly switch out to adjust to those "special circumstances" you mentioned above?

It just seems that this "idea" about the fletching arrows being used for "special circumstances" couldn't of been the original thought here. I mean we used to get something like 20 arrows per combination of foraged materials in beta didn't we?

Pretty sure it was. Cause it is.


I just can't see this being the way it's meant to be. I have to spend money everytime I attack a mob? If this IS the way it's supposed to be then the damage that is inflicted needs to be jacked WAY up. I don't see other classes having to purchase expendable items used everytime they attack/cast on a mob. If I have to pay to hurt the mob (other than repairing my gear as everyone does) then I want INSANE damage. That or make it so all casters have to purchase magic essence they have to carry around which is used up per cast.

Your pretty well balanced as is, if not a tad in the slightly over category right now. And as I see it, you do have insane damage from your bow abilities, in fact your the only class with them other than Warrior IS, unless I missed one.

Forage isn't a class defining skill, it's there for flavor to add a little extra. Without it you'd still be just as good DPS, and no one could tell the difference if you used it or not.

[Anthal]

The arrows do add considerably higher DPS, and on top of the bow damage being much higher than regular weapons, ranged is a good amount of DPS on it's own. At 22, my ranged attack rating is something around 122-122, and hits for around 150. We can fire that every second or so, if we stay at ranged, and coupled with our skills, that can be higher to, or equal to many classes DPS.

The problem is that Warden's Ranged Attack is disrupting the endurance regen cycle, making the sustained ranged DPS trivial.

The fletched arrows usually have a much higher damage value on them, and always add max range without increasing minimum range. Having them all of the time would make them quite overpowered.

[Vobarn]

Your right, they should enhance caster spell range to match that of ranger's bow abilities to even things out.

I was referencing to the fact that my sorcerer TAKES more of a beating than my ranger can at level 10. Refering to Loreley27's earlier post that said:

Originally Posted by Loreley27
"Well, it was posted by a dev at VG Rangers I believe that rangers in VG are not supposed to be mainly played ranged."

Talking about him not being able to "take a hit" basically.
I'm not sure what you're referencing about increasing caster's spell range to match a ranger's bow...

..

What I said:
Originally Posted by Vobarn
It just seems that this "idea" about the fletching arrows being used for "special circumstances" couldn't of been the original thought here. I mean we used to get something like 20 arrows per combination of foraged materials in beta didn't we?

Your response:
Pretty sure it was. Cause it is.
No need to get offended or anything I'm merely refering to the ranger's constant need for arrows to do ranged damage. It is not right that I have to purchase arrows to do damage. As a ranger I should have the ability to make my own arrows. While you are telling me these arrows I can make are for "Special Circumstance" I do not believe that should be so. I should be able to make all the arrows I need to do my job with ranged damage by foraging my own supplies. If you want "Special Circumstance" arrows put in then make rare foraged items that can make these "Special Circumstance" arrows but I think we should be able to make standard arrows readily and as needed.

..

Your pretty well balanced as is, if not a tad in the slightly over category right now. And as I see it, you do have insane damage from your bow abilities, in fact your the only class with them other than Warrior IS, unless I missed one.

So, as a Ranger, I am over-balanced? I have to purchase massive amounts of expendable items in order to do damage to mobs. I can forage my own expendable items to use but it would take me two straight nights of foraging to get enough of them to use during one night's solo'ing. I can't see this as "over-balanced".

..

Forage isn't a class defining skill, it's there for flavor to add a little extra. Without it you'd still be just as good DPS, and no one could tell the difference if you used it or not.

Yes, I would be just as good at DPS because I would have to purchase the items from a vendor that I should be able to forage on my own. Noone would be able to tell if I used forage. That is correct.

..

The arrows do add considerably higher DPS, and on top of the bow damage being much higher than regular weapons, ranged is a good amount of DPS on it's own. At 22, my ranged attack rating is something around 122-122, and hits for around 150. We can fire that every second or so, if we stay at ranged, and coupled with our skills, that can be higher to, or equal to many classes DPS.

If you're using these "special circumstance" arrows as they seem to be intended and they add "considerably higher DPS" that's GREAT. I'm all for having these "special circumstance" arrows. BUT, I still think we should be able to make our own average, every day, run of the mill arrows that we will use normally.

..

The problem is that Warden's Ranged Attack is disrupting the endurance regen cycle, making the sustained ranged DPS trivial.

I am with you there. I have noticed the same thing. While it doesn't cost anything and is nice to keep DPS moving along. It does seem to hinder the regen a bit. Although, I have no numbers at all to back it up.

..

The fletched arrows usually have a much higher damage value on them, and always add max range without increasing minimum range. Having them all of the time would make them quite overpowered.

I think this a perfect reason to make two different kinds of fletched arrows. The "special circumstance" arrows and the "everyday" arrows.

What cha think about having two different fletched arrows?

[Wild]

Well, it was posted by a dev at VG Rangers I believe that rangers in VG are not supposed to be mainly played ranged.

I'd like a link to that post, please. As Ranger Leader, I talk with the devs on a daily basis and I have *never* heard that. I *have* heard, however, that ranged damage will *not* equal melee damage because of the reduced risk factor. There will be pleasing results with ranged and it is a viable alternative to melee.

If you link the post, I'll ask Talisker and Avair about it. Thank you!!

Please go out and buy 400 arrows of the generic variety (e.g., I use Crude Flight or Crude Barbed for my bows and Crude Bodkin for my crossbow). I believe it is 10cp for 50. The fletched arrows comprised of foraged components are a LOT better than Crude Flight, for instance, and are to be supplemental, *not* your primary ammo.

However, I *did* talk with Avair and he's upped the yield! We'll be fletching 10 per combine instead of 5!! Yaaaay Not as substantial as the 20 we used to fletch, but the arrows are more than twice as good! <smiles>

There are some staples: Night Eye (see invis *not* see stealthed). There is no level restriction that I see on the tooltip. I'll double check that tonight. Valerion (increases elemental resistance). The regen herbs change with levels: e.g., Root Grubs, then Bark Jerky -- these are to be used "at rest." Valerion and the regen herbs *do* stack, but you have to manually move them into a stack. I'm hoping that will be fixed in a patch coming soon!

[Wild]

Don't really play a ranger, but those arrows are suppose to be better than baught for your level, so they are suppose to be rare and used under select circumstances as you see fit.

Agreed!

Not a way to get free arrows anytime you please,

Ummmmm Well, the arrows, admittedly *are* free, but we *do* have to do something to get them ...

and thus make you even more overpowered by removing a cash sink, and negating the need to go into town despite the fact you have to anyways to repair..

10cp is not much of a cash sink, so not sure how 10cp x 4 or x8 saved (assuming we *didn't* go to the General Merchandise or Ranged Weapon Vendors) makes us overpowered <boggle>

Wild will correct if I am wrong.

Yep!

When talking with Avair about the whole forage table before it was implemented, he warned me that these arrows would be uncommon because they *are* so much better.... our ammo staple would be purchased. He just told me today that he's upped the combine amount from 5 to 10 <dances> Still not as appealing as 20 (as we used to be able to fletch), but these are way better than the Crude Flight equivalents of the yield-20 kind.

[Anthal]

There are some staples: Night Eye (see invis *not* see stealthed). There is no level restriction that I see on the tooltip. I'll double check that tonight. Valerion (increases elemental resistance). The regen herbs change with levels: e.g., Root Grubs, then Bark Jerky -- these are to be used "at rest." Valerion and the regen herbs *do* stack, but you have to manually move them into a stack. I'm hoping that will be fixed in a patch coming soon!

There are no levels on the tooltips, but I can confirm you forage them too low.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4772/nevalbugzi3.jpg

Both require you to be 35, but at 23, I've already received plenty.

[Oakane]

Please go out and buy 400 arrows of the generic variety (e.g., I use Crude Flight or Crude Barbed for my bows and Crude Bodkin for my crossbow). I believe it is 10cp for 50. The fletched arrows comprised of foraged components are a LOT better than Crude Flight, for instance, and are to be supplemental, *not* your primary ammo.

However, I *did* talk with Avair and he's upped the yield! We'll be fletching 10 per combine instead of 5!! Yaaaay Not as substantial as the 20 we used to fletch, but the arrows are more than twice as good! <smiles>

There are some staples: Night Eye (see invis *not* see stealthed). There is no level restriction that I see on the tooltip. I'll double check that tonight. Valerion (increases elemental resistance). The regen herbs change with levels: e.g., Root Grubs, then Bark Jerky -- these are to be used "at rest." Valerion and the regen herbs *do* stack, but you have to manually move them into a stack. I'm hoping that will be fixed in a patch coming soon!

I am daunted by your reasoning. Didn't you choose to be a ranger, then stop your sniffling. I've been a ranger and I've always been with my main. I plan accordingly to have a crafter that can make arrows. The point is you have an option and a choice. Get over it.