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View Full Version : The Presence requirements are absolutely ridiculous


Mydnyte
02-13-2007, 03:35 AM
From my experience, the lowest amount of Presence required by a diplomatic quest is 50. At first glance, that didn't seem all that bad - just do some Civic and I'll soon be able to do some quests.

It turns out that getting 50 Presence takes a VERY long time. I ground Domestic Presence for literally 6 hours straight, which got me to 35, and then spent 15 silver on gear to get the rest...all in order to do a quest whose NPCs had a diplomatic skill of 50. The reward...80 copper. That is absurd, but I figured maybe it was just that quest.

Next quest I found required 50 Soldier Presence. I spent another 15 silver and did another incredibly long grinding session and discovered that it was a chain quest. Sounding interesting...
Next part of the chain required 75 Soldier Presence.

I worked on the newbie diplomacy lines like nothing else in beta. I have loved the diplomacy system from the moment I saw it. This is flat-out wrong. Diplomacy just went from fun to hours and hours of grinding in order to do quests that appear to be low level.

I'm done. Please patch/fix this.

Myd

Melios
02-13-2007, 06:39 AM
I noticed this when I saw the quests added around Lomshir. :confused:

troldan
02-13-2007, 10:38 AM
and people ignore me when i say the same thing bah !
i don't want easy but i don't want this boring click fest with insanely slow returns.

Aruspex - SGO
02-13-2007, 01:05 PM
and people ignore me when i say the same thing bah !
i don't want easy but i don't want this boring click fest with insanely slow returns.

Quests come into play after you've done some Civic Diplomacy. Gather some information, turn it in, get clothes - trade them with your friends to get better sets.

Our quests start at 25 Presence, though we have an info belt quest series going in soon that requires only 15 Presence.

o
A

EonBlue
02-13-2007, 01:14 PM
Diplomacy isn't anywher near finished atm. So decide for yourself if it is worth it to level up and reap the potential rewards from being ahead of the pack or if it's better to work on it later.

For most of those quests you dont have the cards to win even with the presence so i wouldn't fret too much.

Once you get to the second teir you can get chest peices with 33 presence on them as well, belts come with 10-15ish pants have 1-10. 50 presence is not a big deal at all.

I'm skill 151 and its only getting slower. I have 98 soldier presence and 65 academic presence from this grinding.

Anyway diplo has to have a lot more content (and I mean ways of advancement not more conversations) before its worth doing. I'd reccomend waiting myself. It is a very uncomplete "sphere". I also believe it will speed up eventually so anyhting you do now is probably going to be much slower then later, but its anyones guess.

Cogswin
02-13-2007, 01:20 PM
Quests come into play after you've done some Civic Diplomacy. Gather some information, turn it in, get clothes - trade them with your friends to get better sets.

Our quests start at 25 Presence, though we have an info belt quest series going in soon that requires only 15 Presence.

o
A

I'm going to disagree here, sorry. I've done a fair amount of diplomacy, and so far (after hours on end of being "diplomatic") I've managed to earn 1 point of prescence. I'd estimate my win/loss ratio at about 80% win (and thats conservatively in favor of loss). While I've managed to win a few "rewards" in the form of arcana, etc, the vendors being bugged so that they won't talk to us unless we have 10 of a type of information, then only take 7/5/3 of the appropriate type is insane. Especially when the information is spread across at least 12 types of T1 material (Crude level, Hearsay-Rumor-Evidence qualities, and Blackmail-Arcana-Plot-Trend categories). Consider 3 grades of 4 types of information, and thats a possibly 36 rewards we could get, all without being able to trade any of it to vendors for gear. Add into that the fact that some of the rewards are single use consumeables, and the odds of getting useful clothing go down from there.

And aren't we still missing the "grade" vendors? The informants that will take a combination of "hearsays", rather than Arc/BM/Plot/Trend?

EonBlue
02-13-2007, 01:36 PM
I would also LOVE to see the play moved to client side as well as giving us hotkeys that we can use them to play our cards and speed thigns up even more. TBH most of the conversations i have been in are predictable. It would be nice to be able to watch my other screen instead of having to point and click constatnly.

To any wouldbe starter diplos I would also like to reccomend you make your adventuring class bard as it is by far the most beneficial adv class you can make. Since you can't save card sets its more time efficient to use the same card set and walk around to the different npc's in a city. Using a card knocks you off your horse so bard speed is VERY FTW. (not to mention horses are slower and bards are welcome in any group... I almost refuse to group without one, I am a cleric)

The diplo sphere needs a few things right now:

***MOST IMPORTANT***The ability to get the other cards, for isntance the reason absolution card would be very helpful. Without those basic pieces a lot of the encounters just wont happen ever. (It would be nice if we could collect them all, as well as get the city civic diplo ones permantly added through some epic style quest)

*The ability to advance in level without civic diplo. The game gets stale FAST, eventually you understand every possible outcome with your strategy and you can sleep walk through it. I dont want it to be harder just faster if I can master one level of play I wish to move to the next. (couple that with the fact that there is nothing out there for diplomats except civic diplo youll start to understand what i mean very fsat when you try it)

*The ability to track your advancement, like a diplo xp bar, or solid number of how many more encounters you need before you gain a presence etc.

*The ability to talk to the same npc multiple times in succession with the same strat in a kinda teired event. For instance I start a gossip conversation with guard x. After I complete it another converstaion immediatly starts that is noticeably harder. After that another significantly harder gossip conversation starts. The rewards should be similar too, if you can beat the first one you get 1 xp the second you get 2 the third you get 4 and so on. If you complete all 3 maybe you get 4 pieces of blackmail instead of just one. This is meant to solve the problem of the pure immense amount of running you have to do.


Thats all I can really think of right now im sure ill come up with more things later.

Mirra
02-13-2007, 01:37 PM
I guess it comes down to a personal opinion on the issue. I love diplomacy. Yes, it is a big huge grind. But i don't find the grind anymore tedious than the crafting grind. And both of those spheres I love more than adventuring.


If it is taking you hours to get one presence skill, then something is wrong. Either you are losing the conversations, you are switching classes, or you are bugged. At lower levels I would get one presence and one skill level in under 10 minutes. Around 10 parleys (winning and the same class) or less. Now at skill 210, it takes me about 15-20 parleys to get it and about 15 minutes or so. The quests I have only recently started to do, most of the time I have grinded away.

My way to grind is to find a town I want to get more diplomatic prestige in (I am maxed in Leth Nurae so I TRY to avoid that city, though I have more difficulty elsewhere). Then I decide on a class that I want to build presence with. I then start looking for a group of 3-4 NPCs that are the right level and that I am able to win against. If I can not find it, I either move to a different city or pick a differrent class to work on for presence. I don't sweat any faction loss while I am "testing" out the NPCs.

Once I find my group of 3-4 NPCs, then I just work them in rotation and grind away. The presence, prestige, and skill builds up fast.

I reached skill 200 without doing any quests for new cards and I have never bought any clothing. Only recently have I started doing quests because at 200 I was able to take on some writs that I can not beat, so I am now looking for the cards to help my startegy against them. But because I have grinded so long, I have more than enough presence to do any of these quests, I've never had to buy clothes since I got them all myself, and have made some decent money from selling the extra clothing items I got.

Is diplomacy a huge grind? Oh, yes! It can be very boring at times. But I don't find the grind much different than crafting. Not to mention they are working on more quests and such to make it less of a grind.

I do not think dip is too hard at all. Maybe a bit too boring at times. And it is frustrating to travel to a new contenent just to find you can't beat any NPCs you wanted to parley with. But I don't think we are meant to easily beat everyone.

Anyway, it's just my personal opinion. I can see why diplomacy is not for everyone. But personally, I am very happy with it and look forward to new things coming out (such as more writs and the regional trade system).

Absalon
02-13-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm going to disagree here, sorry. I've done a fair amount of diplomacy, and so far (after hours on end of being "diplomatic") I've managed to earn 1 point of prescence. I'd estimate my win/loss ratio at about 80% win (and thats conservatively in favor of loss). While I've managed to win a few "rewards" in the form of arcana, etc, the vendors being bugged so that they won't talk to us unless we have 10 of a type of information, then only take 7/5/3 of the appropriate type is insane. Especially when the information is spread across at least 12 types of T1 material (Crude level, Hearsay-Rumor-Evidence qualities, and Blackmail-Arcana-Plot-Trend categories). Consider 3 grades of 4 types of information, and thats a possibly 36 rewards we could get, all without being able to trade any of it to vendors for gear. Add into that the fact that some of the rewards are single use consumeables, and the odds of getting useful clothing go down from there.

And aren't we still missing the "grade" vendors? The informants that will take a combination of "hearsays", rather than Arc/BM/Plot/Trend?

My experiences have been considerably different than yours. If you've done hours of civic diplomacy, you should have earned more than 1 point of presence. Did you do a lot of that civic in Derogar's Post? Civic wasn't working properly there for a time and wasn't giving presence increases. It has since been corrected.

I usually earn a point of presence every 10-15 parleys. I also get a lot of presence from gear via turn ins.

There are some 25 presence quests and even a 5 presence quest in Halgarad called Blood and Seals. You can find a list of available quests here:

http://www.vgtact.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=727

Cogswin
02-13-2007, 01:41 PM
My experiences have been considerably different than yours. If you've done hours of civic diplomacy, you should have earned more than 1 point of presence. Did you do a lot of that civic in Derogar's Post? Civic wasn't working properly there for a time and wasn't giving presence increases. It has since been corrected.

I usually earn a point of presence every 10-15 parleys. I also get a lot of presence from gear via turn ins.

There are some 25 presence quests and even a 5 presence quest in Halgarad called Blood and Seals. You can find a list of available quests here:

http://www.vgtact.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=727

If by saying "switching classes" that means that I'll do one of an NPC's three parlays, then do one of the remaining two, then yes, I guess thats what I'm doing. Didn't realize that was bad.

I've honestly been winning most of my parlays. I'm around level 67~ in Diplomacy (can you check that on the VGStats?). I've got tons of city faction, just no prescence that I know of :(

edit - my VGCharacter.
http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/characters.vm?characterId=55834585065

Mirra
02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
If by saying "switching classes" that means that I'll do one of an NPC's three parlays, then do one of the remaining two, then yes, I guess thats what I'm doing. Didn't realize that was bad.

I've honestly been winning most of my parlays. I'm around level 67~ in Diplomacy (can you check that on the VGStats?). I've got tons of city faction, just no prescence that I know of :(

By switching classes, I mean parleying with a soldier and then parleying with a noble. The type of conversation with each only effects what information you will get (i.e. clothing items). But the actual NPC's job makes a difference.

Today, for example, I am working on cleric presence. I went to Bordiner's Cleft since I need more prestige faction there. I have found a group of 3 cleric dwarves than I can parley 2 conversations each with. So I just rotate between all 3. I am getting a presence point about every 20 parleys with them (a little longer for them because they are a bit lower skill then I would like).

EonBlue
02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
I'm going to disagree here, sorry. I've done a fair amount of diplomacy, and so far (after hours on end of being "diplomatic") I've managed to earn 1 point of prescence. I'd estimate my win/loss ratio at about 80% win (and thats conservatively in favor of loss). While I've managed to win a few "rewards" in the form of arcana, etc, the vendors being bugged so that they won't talk to us unless we have 10 of a type of information, then only take 7/5/3 of the appropriate type is insane. Especially when the information is spread across at least 12 types of T1 material (Crude level, Hearsay-Rumor-Evidence qualities, and Blackmail-Arcana-Plot-Trend categories). Consider 3 grades of 4 types of information, and thats a possibly 36 rewards we could get, all without being able to trade any of it to vendors for gear. Add into that the fact that some of the rewards are single use consumeables, and the odds of getting useful clothing go down from there.

And aren't we still missing the "grade" vendors? The informants that will take a combination of "hearsays", rather than Arc/BM/Plot/Trend?

The secret cogsin is finding 4 npc's really close to eachother of the same type. I don't want to give away too many secrets but in leth nurae if you do academics there is a group of 4 75's 4 125s and 2 150/2 175 and 4 200's all in very close proximity to eachother. You can hail them all without movnig and start a conversation. sit there for about 6 hours and I bet youll be at 50 presence at least. If you can't win with 95% proficiency then work on a new strat until you have one. Once you get the most efficient strat you can find get ready for the grind fest. To give you a relative idea of how long it took me to get 60 academic presence I have been saving up hearsay since I started doing them...
I now have about 400 peices of it in my bank. Lets assume 75% of the conversations give you hearsay, and 5% i failed. That should give you a rough estimate of what it takes. Diplo is by far the sphere with the most grinding atm ;)

Absalon
02-13-2007, 02:08 PM
The secret cogsin is finding 4 npc's really close to eachother of the same type. I don't want to give away too many secrets but in leth nurae if you do academics there is a group of 4 75's 4 125s and 2 150/2 175 and 4 200's all in very close proximity to eachother. You can hail them all without movnig and start a conversation. sit there for about 6 hours and I bet youll be at 50 presence at least. If you can't win with 95% proficiency then work on a new strat until you have one. Once you get the most efficient strat you can find get ready for the grind fest. To give you a relative idea of how long it took me to get 60 academic presence I have been saving up hearsay since I started doing them...
I now have about 400 peices of it in my bank. Lets assume 75% of the conversations give you hearsay, and 5% i failed. That should give you a rough estimate of what it takes. Diplo is by far the sphere with the most grinding atm ;)

If you had turned in some of that information you could have gotten gear to give you some of the presence you needed and saved yourself a bunch of grinding.

EonBlue
02-13-2007, 02:34 PM
If you had turned in some of that information you could have gotten gear to give you some of the presence you needed and saved yourself a bunch of grinding.

What do I need presence for? I was grinding for diplomacy skill, presence was just a bonus. I cannot defeat any of the missions with the current cards I have so presence is somewhat meaningless progression atm.

If diplomacy cards are implemented as rewards for blackmail. We'll see who has saved themselves a bunch of grinding.

Mirra
02-13-2007, 02:44 PM
I cannot defeat any of the missions with the current cards I have so presence is somewhat meaningless progression atm.



What class are you that you can't beat any of the quests? There will always be SOME quests that are difficult for every class, but to say you can't beat any of them sounds more of a strategy issue. Post your class and maybe someone can help.

But as for what other purpose presence is for, each tier up on the presence means that you can push the levers up faster in a city. For example, I have little noble presence, so it would take me 40 winning parleys to move a lever in Leth Nurae (assuming no one else is doing any civic at the time). But I am on tier 3 of academics and it only takes me 10 parelys to push a lever there.

Pushing those levers does all kinds of neat things. For example, one reason I am working so hard on cleric presence right now, is so I can push the lever that gives me the bonus card for them. That particular card might be enough to help me when the writ conversation that I am currently having trouble with.

There is also a buff for faster running, buffs for adventuring, and buffs to help with crafting.

Here is a list of what levers can you pull for each class. If there is one specific lever you want to pull a lot, it would be benificial to have a high presence with them to make the job much faster. Otherwise, you will need to make it a group effort.
http://www.vgtact.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=582

Mydnyte
02-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Cooled down a bit, slept on it, started thinking about how to fix this problem I appear to have run into.
Our quests start at 25 Presence, though we have an info belt quest series going in soon that requires only 15 Presence.
In the halfling/Thestran human area (Tursh and surrounding places) the lowest Presence requirement for rewards I have seen for a quest is 50. The first of these can be found in Tursh itself, it requires 50 Domestic Presence. The next quests I found were in Three Rivers. The first is one that requires 50 Domestic Presence and eventually rewards you with a keg (nice!), the second is a chain with the following requirements:
25 Soldier Presence
50 Domestic Presence (80 copper reward)
50 Soldier Presence
75 Soldier Presence (where I've stopped)
The way I look at things, that quest first requires 50 Domestic Presence, then at least 75 Soldier Presence - that's where the rewards are. I've seen no rewards for 25 Presence.

Quests come into play after you've done some Civic Diplomacy. Gather some information, turn it in, get clothes - trade them with your friends to get better sets.
As for gear, I have earned/bought a total of +34 Soldier Presence, +22 Domestic, and a bunch of Crafting as well. That sounds like a lot...because it is! After over 12 hours of grinding and 30 silver, I have 50/50/50 Presence in Solder/Crafting/Domestic...but it took that much grinding and silver to get there. The gear rewards may lessen the amount of grinding required, but by nowhere near enough.

I talked to a few people circumspectly who also are in the same area of the world, and they are having the same feelings. So how can this be fixed?
Add in more, lower-Presence quests. That's adding content, and thus time-consuming.
Reduce the Presence requirements of many of the quests. Less time-consuming, but still have to deal with each quest.
Change the gear to be much more powerful. Makes Vanguard diplomacy very item-centric.
Change the Presence gain curve to reward Presence faster. Doesn't change the grind, but lessens it. Don't know your code/method here, so don't know how long it would take.

From those, the ideal answer is obviously number One, but that is rather time-consuming as mentioned. I'm thinking perhaps a combination of Two and Four. For Two, don't lessen many of the quests, just make sure there are one or two in each general area that only require 25 Presence to completion. As for number Four...in my Domestic grind to 35 Presence I appeared to be getting Presence once every six parleys (it started as every five-to-six, then moved to every six-to-seven). If there was an easy way to reduce that to, say, every four, perhaps that would feel like less of a grind. Obviously this is a balancing act between "rewards are too easy" and "feels like no progression", but I think the sweet spot is faster progression than what there currently is.

Hopefully some of that made sense, and hopefully some of that is helpful.

Myd

palleon
02-13-2007, 03:49 PM
I got my diplomacy up to 50 odd then got the next (and only) diplomacy quest, which required me to have 25 presence, of which I had 7 in all my areas. Nothing I can do increases this, there is no diplomacy clothes on the broker, cant see anything resembling a diplomacy vendor, and so my Diplomacy stopped there, which was a shame as it was fun.

They need to sort it out really, its been nearly 3 weeks, and still no fix.

Parallax
02-13-2007, 03:51 PM
Well I have to agree with the OP here, as I was thinking about making a thread on this topic myself. The Amount of presence you need *just* to do a single quest is prohibative and would make alot of people simply quit diplomecy.

When I first started diplomecy, doing the starter quests up to the mid-40s or so, it was GREAT! I completely quit doing anything else and didnt care. I was talking to different npcs and reading new stories and I couldnt get enough... Now as soon as civic diplomecy became necessary its been a real pain, as others have said its a massive grind, talking to the same npcs with the same hand doing the same routine over and over and over again. My personal experience with the presence gain has been something like 1-2 presence per hour. I can't just sit there and do it non-stop and I find myself alt+tabbing to do something more interesting, so I guess thats slowing me down..

Anyways to do the 25 presence quest in CB it probably took me 4-5 days of grinding to get just 18 domestic presence and then spent probably 20silver on cloths to make up the rest...alll to parley with some npcs that had a skill lvl less then *half* of mine, it was incredibly easy, the rewards were ok, since I at least got a card out of it. But yes it doesnt make sense to need to be 2x the skill lvl of a quest just to qualify for it by way of presence.

I'm still enjoying diplomecy and I know its not complete yet. Some of the little stories I've read have been great and even made me actually LaughOutLoud, but it doesnt take long before you have read all of what the npcs you're grinding on have to offer and then after 50x repetitions it just seems like the new content was so long ago... I would love to see some more parley's and a serious nerf to the grind factor.

Mirra
02-13-2007, 04:06 PM
I got my diplomacy up to 50 odd then got the next (and only) diplomacy quest, which required me to have 25 presence, of which I had 7 in all my areas. Nothing I can do increases this, there is no diplomacy clothes on the broker, cant see anything resembling a diplomacy vendor, and so my Diplomacy stopped there, which was a shame as it was fun.

They need to sort it out really, its been nearly 3 weeks, and still no fix.

Parleying with the NPC's gives you presence based on their skills. I.e. parley with soldiers and you get soldier presence. At this point in time, all brokers pretty much have a ton of diplomacy gear since they fixed the search. But you don't need to buy the gear.

Parley with the NPC's to get information which you collect and turn in for gear. Each type of conversation yields a different type of reward. For example, if you want the shirts and belts which have the largest presence numbers, then work on convince conversations which will give you arcana info.

troldan
02-13-2007, 04:40 PM
ya if gear with +1 presense does anything lol.
i laugh at those. i got 3 pants from turning in trends and they all only like +1 to acouple presense or +3 to 1 presense.

Melios
02-13-2007, 04:48 PM
Quests come into play after you've done some Civic Diplomacy. Gather some information, turn it in, get clothes - trade them with your friends to get better sets.

Our quests start at 25 Presence, though we have an info belt quest series going in soon that requires only 15 Presence.

o
A
25 presence? The ones I've seen require 50.

Mirra
02-13-2007, 05:07 PM
ya if gear with +1 presense does anything lol.
i laugh at those. i got 3 pants from turning in trends and they all only like +1 to acouple presense or +3 to 1 presense.


Trends yield boots and earrings which will not be as high, though they add up. Try doing the convince lines for arcana which yields belts and shirts.

but don't expect to just run out, do a few parleys and get enough clothing to do 50 presence quests. Tier one shirts max at +15, while tier two shirts are +33 (+47 if you get a rare on from evidence). There is a big difference.

Diplomacy at this point is mostly grinding with a few quests thrown in. The biggest point of doing quests is to get the extra cards. And up until you are needing to do very specific quests, your regular deck will work just fine. If one area has a class of NPC's that is too hard, move on. If you can not do a quest, move on.

If you hate grinding anything and find it boring, I would suggest you take up another sphere. At least for now.

Mirra
02-13-2007, 05:08 PM
ya if gear with +1 presense does anything lol.
i laugh at those. i got 3 pants from turning in trends and they all only like +1 to acouple presense or +3 to 1 presense.

25 presence? The ones I've seen require 50.


Here is a list of some of the quests out there.
http://www.vgtact.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=727

Hitman8514
02-13-2007, 05:12 PM
Ok So I went to that site with a list of quests and I'm going to cry that this is unfair... I have over 30 soldier and crafter presence but I am evil on the Varking server, it seems like 99% of the quests are in Khal, Mekalia, or other "Order" areas, where I am KOS. Are there any quests in Lomshir or Hathor Zi or at any of the beacons? Please, let me know if there are. If not, can the devs please add a quest or two here and there and keep the Varking Diplomats in mind a little. Thanks

Envoy Cogent Pernicious
102 Diplomat

Estar87
02-13-2007, 05:21 PM
Theres 2 quests in Dark horses that require 25 presence - Academic and domestic. These quests give diplo clothing for outsider and academic presence (baton and belt respectiffluy).

The next 2 quests there is a chain that first requirese 50 academic than 50 outsider Both of these quests give a new Card.

Mentin
02-13-2007, 06:59 PM
Some comments:

Someone wanted to get away from the click click click:
Use /parleyplay [0-9], /parleyspeak, /parleylisten
Put those into hotkeys and parleys will be all keyboard.

As for gaining presence and information: You will get the best payoff from NPCs above yours skill level.

Getting to sufficient presence levels to do the various quests must be considered a quest in itself. It seems that 50+ presence takes tier 2 gear, 100+ dip skill. There is no level requirement on the dip gear, so the broker is your friend.

There is one thing I really miss: Save and restore strategies.

I wish I could save my strategy, possibly with a small comment, then reload it later when I get back to the same npc again. Having to set up strategy again from the deck is a pain, and will get worse as the number of cards increase.

Ayeshala
02-13-2007, 07:36 PM
The vast majority of quests I have seen around the Human starting area in Thestra required 50 Domestics Presence. In my opinion, they should be lowered to a more reasonable 25; Domestic loot is already very rare, asking people to get to 50 right off the bat if they want to do some questing doesn't feel very fair.

Fring
02-13-2007, 07:58 PM
To make a very broad generalization, it has been my experience that the people on the 'it's not so hard' side of the fence hail from Leth Nurae. I found that traveling to Khal made a huge difference in the number of NPCs at lower levels who were available for parley. After a looong round of parley-parley-wait for refresh with the two soldiers possible at my level in CB (and there are no domestics yet, I think), I was delighted to find that there are at least 6 in one room in Khal. Different areas make a difference.

Therian
02-13-2007, 11:40 PM
My recommendation for spanning the post-newbie gap between your presence and quest requirements is the auction broker. Information Informants _are_ working and handing out clothes – just some of them are uncooperative - and as players outlevel the clothes they go on the broker.

[I'm currently on a hunt for higher outsider presence, but still about 15 short of goal. I have tons of most every other presence in gear, and every time I trade up, I dump the old stuff on the brokers. I just got a bunch of shirts with +47 presence, but unfortunately none for outsider.]

Travelling to different towns is also key (if you have faction issues with the town, you may have to grind some mobs).

As for grinding up generally, I have a few recommendations for what to do between quests:

- Parley with the highest npc possible. If you're 50, parley with 100s. If you're 75, parley with 125s, etc. This is exactly the same as fighting with yellow mobs compared to green mobs.

- Look for a group of npcs in your parley target range who are close together. [Someone above recommended Leth Nurae and I can second that – there are some very useful clusters there.] Three npcs together of your target range is ideal.

- Do a few test-parleys with the npcs building your deck until you can beat them – because they're higher than you you'll take some big faction hits doing this, but it's worth it. I have an extremely strong green deck with red and yellow support, so I always aim to do the parley which will allow me to use these colours. The High Elves seem to like blue, so blocking them out of blue is also a good plan. [There's a guide on VGTact and on the Wiki regarding races and stations and expression types (colours).]

- Parley with these npcs till you are high enough to move on to a more powerful npc. Parleying with level 50 npcs when you're level 100 will make it slow going. Parleying with level 150 npcs will speed things up (and give you better information rewards).

- After a good long session you will not only have station presence and levels, you'll surely have at least 10 of a particular kind of information which you can use to unlock an informant. And you can use the clothes to build a presence set to do your quest.

EonBlue
02-14-2007, 11:42 PM
Some comments:

Someone wanted to get away from the click click click:
Use /parleyplay [0-9], /parleyspeak, /parleylisten
Put those into hotkeys and parleys will be all keyboard.

Thank you that's very helpful.

Linusboarder
02-15-2007, 06:53 PM
I am building my presence by talkign to the same NPC's over and over again. find a strategy and stick to it. For example i have a quest that requires 50 Soldier Presence. So I found 2 soldiers near each other and just decided to get my presence up by manually grinding it and then getting gear when i could. In 2 nights i had 35 manual Soldier presence and 15 in gear.. and voila quest done.

I will agree that the presence needed seems to be significantly higher than the quest level. But i think some of the complaining on this board seems to be a little overstated. 50 soldeier presence wasn't very difficult to get, and in the pocess I got a lot of gear which rased my other presences as well.

It seems to me that a lot of people don't completely understand how to do diplomacy (how information brokers work, how they can use levers to their advantage, how to get better gear like lvl 101+ Civic diplomats give out better information, which gives better rewards, than say the crude information you get from <100 skill diplomats. Or even where informants are... I know i have updated the informants page here last week because it didn't have any of the Tawar Galan informants on it... even though there are 3 different informants in TG (and one in nearby Ca'ial Brael).