Travel Time: Let's face it

[Bashurm]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...

[Mreynolds]

True but at the same time if you cave in and make travel easier then it starts a domino effect. Then next its the xp curve, then its housing available to all, then its something else. Developers should hold the line on the core of the game they create. If they cave once then its a cycle that never stops. Much like people who dont want ports wouldnt quit I doubt travel time alone would make those who want them quit.

[Zippalbit]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...

OMG, that is some messed up logic there. You want to piss off 60% of the customer base because you think they will accept it in the end? I got a better idea, lets leave things like they are and kick out the 40% that don't like it...

[jonyak]

True but at the same time if you cave in and make travel easier then it starts a domino effect. Then next its the xp curve, then its housing available to all, then its something else. Developers should hold the line on the core of the game they create. If they cave once then its a cycle that never stops. Much like people who dont want ports wouldnt quit I doubt travel time alone would make those who want them quit.

I will leave if they make travel easier.

[Jayce]

I wish people wouldn't treat MMO's like FPS's or single player games.

Give it time to get used to the system before you come whininng here. I've just brought a nice house plot and it takes about 25 minutes to get there by horse, I guess 45 mins running but hey that gives me a real sense of exploring a real large world. I also know that in the future I will have a faster horse and eventually a flying mount which is something to look forward to.

I say Sigil, stick to your guns and let the complainers leave. Those predicting doom and gloom if that happens must be wrong, how else can you explain UO still being around and profitable after 10 years and a graphics engine even older?

[bloodystump]

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

No, instead of 40% unhappy people playing , they'll have 60% unhappy people playing.

[Charnas]

If you want faster travel times, find a faster mount. It's the reason they gave us access to mounts early in the game. If you don't want to use what is given to you, thats your own fault. The travel time is what makes the world seem real to me. Having a "bind to house" or "bind to guildhall" ability would be nice, giving a second recall, but other than that, i'd say leave things as is.

[Jacosta]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...

Yup it's the one where you don't put in portals. Can I have your stuff?™

[Regnor]

Get a boat! We have two now, and I will be honest, Qalia is a boat captain's DREAM!

http://www.teamego.com/vanguardspace/Mortisboat.jpg

[Nólaquen]

There are so many threads here evaluating the entire game from the perspective of someone not even halfway through it. It is unhealthy to do so because it ends up being noise!

Edit: I'm getting in trouble with this statement, so I thought I'd clarify it. :) I meant specifically with things like travel. Things where your experience is supposed to change for the better as you level as an incentive to leveling and progressing. Travel is one such thing. To say that the way travel works in the entire game needs to change from the perspective of a level 20 or 30 or 40 is a gross overexaggeration based on too little information. Now, maybe if specific examples were given about why travel is such an issue at lower levels and what can be done about it that won't minimize those travel-based incentives at higher levels, we might have something to chew on.

For example...did you factor in the fact that nobody in-game yet has the max speed horse? How about flying mounts? Nobody has those either. Ships? Nope. How about the fact that the majority of people are likely to be too low level to hunt in the same areas that you do, thus creating a situation where you feel you have to move around a lot to get a group? That will evolve as well. Caravans? Doesn't sound like you considered that either.

The reason it is difficult to travel right now is because it is supposed to be. You're supposed to want to achieve that flying mount or high-speed horse as an incentive to level. To reduce the importance of travel reduces the significance of all of those parts of the game that are based on making travel easier.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm one of those people that would enjoy having *one* class that can teleport in a limited fashion. (Though perhaps not teleport others.) I just don't want travel dumbed down for the sake of the people who just started playing at the expense of those rewards we get later on in the game.

[Ominous]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...

I would leave. Long travel times and the huge world feeling tops my list of must-haves for MMOs. I can accept some sort of ritual that creates a temporary portal requiring three or more high level caster classes.

[Abelian75]

First, you're right, those numbers are entirely made up (edit: nevermind, no they aren't :) ). However, I'm guessing that eventually (if not already), if you had a poll, a large majority of players would ask for shorter travel times.

That doesn't mean, however, that if shorter travel times were implemented, those people that "voted" for it would necessarily end up liking it.

People are terrible judges of what will end up being fun for them. People think they want uber classes with Spells of Doom, but if they had that, they'd get bored in a day. Just because people SAY they want faster travel doesn't necessarily mean they'd be happier if it was in the game.

Now, that said, don't think I'm saying that this game doesn't need faster travel. It might. I don't know, I haven't experienced it enough to give a real opinion on that. My only point is that asking people's opinions of what they would find fun doesn't give an accurate picture of what people actually would find fun.

(And this goes in reverse too, of course... just because someone claims to enjoy the long travel times doesn't necessarily mean they won't leave the game because of it, even if they don't realize that was the cause)

Bottom line, don't trust a person's gut reaction to what would make a good game. As for travel time, it's a complicated issue and if anyone claims to know the solution in general, they're probably full of it. While I'm a fan of long-ass travel in some cases (I loved ATITD 1's massively long travel between cities, for instance), I'm also a fan of quick travel in other games. It all depends on the game. Long/short travel is a fundamental part of a game, not something you just turn on or off on a completed product and expect everything to still work as intended.

[Riggin]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time

The end of that sentence should be, "why am I creating another one?"

Meh....spakle all of these threads together!

-Riggin

[Jacosta]

I would leave. Long travel times and the huge world feeling tops my list of must-haves for MMOs. I can accept some sort of ritual that creates a temporary portal requiring three or more high level caster classes.

I would add to this idea in that they must sacrifice a character to perma-death...

[Jacosta]

First, you're right, those numbers are entirely made up. However, I'm guessing that eventually (if not already), if you had a poll, a large majority of players would ask for shorter travel times.

That doesn't mean, however, that if shorter travel times were implemented, those people that "voted" for it would necessarily end up liking it.

People are terrible judges of what will end up being fun for them. People think they want uber classes with Spells of Doom, but if they had that, they'd get bored in a day. Just because people SAY they want faster travel doesn't necessarily mean they'd be happier if it was in the game.

Now, that said, don't think I'm saying that this game doesn't need faster travel. It might. I don't know, I haven't experienced it enough to give a real opinion on that. My only point is that asking people's opinions of what they would find fun doesn't give an accurate picture of what people actually would find fun.

(And this goes in reverse too, of course... just because someone claims to enjoy the long travel times doesn't necessarily mean they won't leave the game because of it, even if they don't realize that was the cause)

Bottom line, don't trust a person's gut reaction to what would make a good game.

It's not made up. (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10553)

[Puuma]

Nice boat!

Haven't we had enough threads about his topic? I mean really. there are 4 threads relating to this topic on the front page today. No porting, you want to speed your travel? Get a boat, a better horse, better horse accessories, or a flying mount. This discussion should be dead by now.

[Abelian75]

It's not made up. (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10553)

Oh, heh, fair enough. Though I'd still say that's probably a biased sample since forumgoers (especially for VG, with no official forums) are sort of a demographic unto themselves. But regardless, the point of my post is that a vote like that, even completely unbiased, STILL wouldn't be a good indicator of much of anything.

[Bashurm]

In an attempt to try to answer the various responces to my topic, I still find it very difficult that people would actually leave game due to slightly faster travel times.

For instance, if Sigil implemented a caster skill able to teleport a player to three cities (one in each continent). Or, increasing all mount speeds by 10%.

There just seems to be a considerable ammount of options Sigil can take to resolve this problem. I say "problem" because so many people in the community are concerned with it.

[Jacosta]

Oh, heh, fair enough. Though I'd still say that's probably a biased sample since forumgoers (especially for VG, with no official forums) are sort of a demographic unto themselves. But regardless, the point of my post is that a vote like that, even completely unbiased, STILL wouldn't be a good indicator of much of anything.

Of course, you're never accept it because you're stubborn. I accept that fact that there aren't any ports and that there are methods already in game to deal with long travel times.

[Abelian75]

Of course, you're never accept it because you're stubborn. I accept that fact that there aren't any ports and that there are methods already in game to deal with long travel times.

Dude, read my post, I think you misunderstood me entirely. If anything, I was saying those 40% in favor of ports shouldn't be trusted. Yes, I think it's important to note that we probably can't trust the 60% against them either, but my suspicion is that there are many more people who THINK they want shorter travel that actually don't than there are people who think they want longer travel, but actually don't.

(the reason I mentioned that the numbers were probably inaccurate is because, yes, I suspect more than 40% of players of this game, including the most casual player who just picked it up on a whim, never reads forums, etc., would probably ask for shorter travel times. My point being that even if 90% of players ask for it, that STILL doesn't mean it would necessarily be good to change).

[sunjess]

OMG, that is some messed up logic there. You want to piss off 60% of the customer base because you think they will accept it in the end? I got a better idea, lets leave things like they are and kick out the 40% that don't like it...


good idea, lets kick out 40% of a dwindling population, as it is if you cut 40% that will leave you with 6 people, wow, just enough for a full group!

in all seriousness, travel time and gold farmers for that matter should be the LAST thing on the minds of the development staff. How about fixing all of the bugs, THEN start worrying about travel time. People will not leave based on long travel time...people WILL leave because of long travel time AND annoying bugs that do not seem to go away even though we are nearing a month of being live.

[Jacosta]

Dude, read my post, I think you misunderstood me entirely. If anything, I was saying those 40% in favor of ports shouldn't be trusted. Yes, I think it's important to note that we probably can't trust the 60% against them either, but my suspicion is that there are many more people who THINK they want shorter travel that actually don't than there are people who think they want longer travel, but actually don't.

Fair enough.

[Riggin]

good idea, lets kick out 40% of a dwindling population, as it is if you cut 40% that will leave you with 6 people, wow, just enough for a full group!

in all seriousness, travel time and gold farmers for that matter should be the LAST thing on the minds of the development staff. How about fixing all of the bugs, THEN start worrying about travel time. People will not leave based on long travel time...people WILL leave because of long travel time AND annoying bugs that do not seem to go away even though we are nearing a month of being live.

Supporting data? Don't make assumptions because of what you read on the forums.

-Riggin

[Abelian75]

Supporting data? Don't make assumptions because of what you read on the forums.

-Riggin

Oh, I think it's a pretty established fact that there are a total of 10 people playing VG.

(that was sarcasm, don't jump all over me)

Incidentally Nino over at FoH claims that sales are above what anyone expected. I'll confess that surprises the hell out of me given the number of servers and such, so there may be a little exaggeration there, but at the very least that probably means it can't be looking THAT grim.

[Jacosta]

Oh, I think it's a pretty established fact that there are a total of 10 people playing VG.

(that was sarcasm, don't jump all over me)

Incidentally Nino over at FoH claims that sales are above what anyone expected. I'll confess that surprises the hell out of me given the number of servers and such, so there may be a little exaggeration there, but at the very least that probably means it can't be looking THAT grim.

Link?

[Abelian75]

Link?

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27034-vg-sales-numbers-27.html#post666846

[user001]

i find that theres too many places to travel too :D im always having to drop quests for new one's. sigh 20 quests is not enough for the vast amount of quests and places i goto, not to count the quests i find on the way to places i want to go. then i find myself having/wanting to go back and finish the quests i didnt finish. um what's this post about, travel time too slow.
NO its fine. stop being cheap buy a horse and buff him up, sheesh.

[Riggin]

Oh, I think it's a pretty established fact that there are a total of 10 people playing VG.

(that was sarcasm, don't jump all over me)

Incidentally Nino over at FoH claims that sales are above what anyone expected. I'll confess that surprises the hell out of me given the number of servers and such, so there may be a little exaggeration there, but at the very least that probably means it can't be looking THAT grim.

Actually we know for a fact that there are at least 145 playing. At least based on the number of people that have voted in the porting poll. Get your facts straight!;)

-Riggin

[Cobalty2004]

All that needs done is too speedup mounts a tad.

Maybe the fastest land mount will be 300% total run speed.

The newb level 10 ones will be like 200% total speed.

Something like that.

Flying mounts will be like 400%.

???

[Lizard]

Vision > Whiners.

'nuff said.

[Riggin]

Actually we know for a fact that there are at least 145 playing. At least based on the number of people that have voted in the porting poll. Get your facts straight!;)

-Riggin

146 now! See! Memberships is growing all the time!

-Riggin

[Lizard]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27034-vg-sales-numbers-27.html#post666846

Hm.

Should it bother me one of the main developers is publically an officer in a large, high-end raiding guild?

With the stuff going down over at EVE Online, this always smacks of corruption, even if everyone if actually 100% above-board. It's good for devs to play the game -- vital, even -- but it worries me if they have too-close ties to specific guilds. The urge to "Be a cool guy, give your pals a little help" is very strong.

[sunjess]

Supporting data? Don't make assumptions because of what you read on the forums.

-Riggin



Riggin, I was just making a point about what a terrible idea that dude had, im not hating Vanguard. I love it and hope it makes it. I dont post much, but I read the forums everyday and am tired of reading foolish remarks. I also imply that I was joking about that statement. As for assumptions, its not an assumption, on Hilsbury it seems pretty sparsely populated, could be because the world is so big, but I dont buy it...I wish there were more people, it would make grouping easier. Just because they are selling well in the store that does not mean that everyone is playing..there will be, with any game people who try it once and never try it again...with the game being as buggy as it is, and come on people, don't tell me the game is not buggy...there may be more one and done players out there...

[ThreadKiller]

It's a close contest here:

The travel time is TOO much 31
Travel Time: Let's face it 32

[Aeronis]

Teleporters and fast travel ruins perfectly good worlds.
A major selling point of the game to me was the huge seamless world and more realistic travel.
It brings back everything that was good and fun about the world of Asheron's Call back in the day.

Anything less makes travel is meaningless. Too quick. There's no sense of exploration, setting off for adventure, or danger involved.

The world feels disjointed and disconnected, not like a real MMORPG, because instead of actually going places you just hop around portals. In that case the game may as well be a series of zones like everything else.

[Zippalbit]

Hm.

Should it bother me one of the main developers is publically an officer in a large, high-end raiding guild?

With the stuff going down over at EVE Online, this always smacks of corruption, even if everyone if actually 100% above-board. It's good for devs to play the game -- vital, even -- but it worries me if they have too-close ties to specific guilds. The urge to "Be a cool guy, give your pals a little help" is very strong.

The guild that owns the message board you are typing, Silky Venom, is comprised of a lot of developers from Sigil... :)

[Devyn]

Hm.

Should it bother me one of the main developers is publically an officer in a large, high-end raiding guild?

With the stuff going down over at EVE Online, this always smacks of corruption, even if everyone if actually 100% above-board. It's good for devs to play the game -- vital, even -- but it worries me if they have too-close ties to specific guilds. The urge to "Be a cool guy, give your pals a little help" is very strong.Yes, it should bother you, at least in my opinion. The fact that a Dev is guilded isn't a concern for me, but the fact that he is open about his being a Dev to his guild is. Even if FoH has not formed a guild in VG, it is still a conflict of interest if even one member starts playing.

Devs should be required to remain anonymous in game, period. Doing otherwise creates the illusion (and possibly the reality) of favoritism and quite possibly cheating and/or handholding.

The guild that owns the message board you are typing, Silky Venom, is comprised of a lot of developers from Sigil...Do you mean the website Silky Venom or the guild Silky Venom? If it's simply the website (which I doubt), no big deal. If it's the guild, that's just pathetic. Not the fact that Devs have a guild for their real characters, but the fact that people are aware of it.

[Nólaquen]

Do you mean the website Silky Venom or the guild Silky Venom? If it's simply the website (which I doubt), no big deal. If it's the guild, that's just pathetic. Not the fact that Devs have a guild for their real characters, but the fact that people are aware of it.

I think there is a confusion about the beta version of Silky Venom guild and live version of Silky Venom guild. Yes, the beta version had a lot of developers. The guild was formed early early beta (independently of the site--the leaders of both were the same person, hence the sharing of name, but the members of either were entirely and completely separate) and as such, there were developers that had the SV tag simply from the fact that it made gathering their common raid testers easier. (I'm assuming...I don't really know as I wasn't a part of beta until nearly beta 3.)

[Isobel]

So, as far as can be known, there are no Devs in SV?

[zeeke]

Lets face it, travel is very easy in this game. If you think its tough then you need to wear your "give it to me now" t-shirt and get over it.

Ask for a speed run buff from another player maybe? Get a horse maybe? Learn to not train thru 100 mobs like other games and think you will live out the other side?

This game is not about "give it to me now" becasue I pay my monthly fee. If thats what you want you will never be happy with vanguard.

I personally think horses are too fast and need to be turned back down. 40% at level 10 is just silly and that doesnt count the +10 tin horse shoes and +4 barding making it 54% at level 10. Thats too fast.

Makes people that get run spells as part of their line not even bother and end up with wasted spells. Specially like shamans wolf form.

my two cents.

[Iceulo]

Boo hoo...i have to work in this game :cry:
Traveling is fine. Why is it fine? Because having to run most places makes the world feel huge! if i could just fly to europe by talking to a guy who could port me there in 3 seconds and then port to japan in another 3 seconds, the world we all live in would feel very very small, huh?
The current travel time is realistic and it is the reason that lvl 10's can have a horse unlike other games such as WoW and EQ2(well ya they could have a horse but it would be either very hard or you have someone helping you). Keep travel as it is!

[Neoptolemus]

I agree that long distance travelling can be a pain in the backside, especially on the diplomacy quests when you often have to talk to several NPCs who are spaced out everywhere. However, the size of the world really adds to the epic feeling of any MMO.

The world in Oblivion for example felt like it was the size of my back garden, given the instant travelling feature and the fact that monster-infested dungeons were often located just a two minute ride from a peaceful, prospering village. It did kill the sense of adventure a little bit.

I'm in favour of the travelling times, as long as developers design the quests efficiently so that you're not forced to spend ages riding all over the place. I don't want to have a quest where I have to talk to two NPCs who are on opposite sides of a continent for example, or spend time travelling to a new questing area, only to be sent back for some quest or other.

[Geldoff]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...


Travel is a core dynamic in the game. You dont simply take a vote and change the core ideas behind your game to satisfy some complainers. Either they like the game or they dont, if you alter a core design element every time it upsets someone you would be left with a terrible hodge-podge of an experience . . . like EQ2 for example.

[Parallax]

I think its important to remember that most people dont know where the hell they are going yet. Everything is a big long annoying run if you go the wrong way most of the time. When people get a better idea of how to get places and maybe even find the porters that *are already in the game* I think this complaint will die off.

[Swish]

For me that is what makes this game .. the travel. I hope it stays and I am sure it will stay the way it is. You can get a horse..

[Jalex]

Travel is a core dynamic in the game. You dont simply take a vote and change the core ideas behind your game to satisfy some complainers. Either they like the game or they dont, if you alter a core design element every time it upsets someone you would be left with a terrible hodge-podge of an experience . . . like EQ2 for example.

Then why do we have bind points?

If travel is a core dynamic, why should we not have to travel to our destination and then travel back?

And while we are on the subject...why do transport ships (when they work) travel through a massive teleporter to get to other continents? I'll tell you why...because the devs realised that travelling between continents by ship took too long.

An easy mechanism to solve the travel issue (for those that want it solved) would be to introduce multiple bind points that you would have to travel to before 'activating' the ability to port to that location. Then limit the number of bindable locations to say five at any one time.

[Kurgan]

With so many threads regarding complaints about travel time, let's face it. About 60% of the population is against adding portals, abilities, etc. to speed up travel time. The other 40% do not want to waste as much time traveling. These numbers are ofcourse, estimated, but should not be too far-fetched.

If Sigil does indeed try to speed up travel time, they would make those 40% people happy. What of the other 60%? Well...most of them would just accept it and move on. I seriously doubt anyone would quit the game simply because travel time is a little faster.

On the other hand people WILL leave the game due to this slow traveling time. The path seems pretty clear to me...

I was against shortening travel time in beta and i'm 100% against it now.Even the longest boat ride only takes about 10 minutes and as for running across a continent can take a good chunk of time on occasion, and it damn well should.I really cannot wait until the teleporters are gone from the docks.Why bother having gone through all the work to create boats,docks, and player made boats only to cave in to the minority and make travel easier than it is in WoW.

I'm simply tired of seeing MMO'S dumbed down to accomodate people who think things like the travel time issue directly effects how successful they will be in the game because it interferes with rl responsibilities.Sorry folks.It should be the other way around. To those that do feel that way, maybe you shouldn't be playing time consuming games for your entertainment.Choose your fun more responsibly and don't expect it to conform to your personal needs just because your rl prevents you from keeping up with the Jones' in some mmo fantasyland.