Hayatet Balancing/Examination

[Anos]

I certainly don't feel gimped @ 26 by any stretch of the imagination. HOWEVER it's the question of balance with the other patrons and what do I bring to a group until level 26? We (Hayatets) have been very patient and will continue to have patience,however if we could just get a "hey you all bring up some very good points and rest assured the Hayatet patron line is being looked at and addressed" is all we would need to make 99.9 % of the Hayatet population feel better.

I played the Hayatet for the fact that it was touted as being the highest DPS and I took a guess (based on abilities and spells) at whether they would be the most effective to a group or a raid. Being that I was going to be able to have an extra mana regen spell kinda fit that bill nicely of being a main healer and having that something extra for all the casters. At the moment all Hayatets are pretty much in limbo about where we fit into the group/raid game at any level much less @ a raid game level.

I mean in their current form if you were looking for a shaman, what patron would be your last choice?

These are the current things that we feel should be looked at and these were gathered from many different sources including shamans of other patrons.

Hayatet
-Fire Claw provides no good incentive to use it over spirit strike. It uses more mana and endurance for very little gain.
-Fire Claw neither creates nor uses any weaknesses.
-Fire Claw has no bolt animation like it used to. Cast animation goes off and there is a burst on the NPC but nothing in between.
-Hayatet Totem Form gives levitate which seems redundant when the entire class gains levitate as a buff.
-Pet has a tendancy to run off and fight from great distances.
-Breath of Immolation resistance should be examined.
-Hayatet abilities need to have their endurance+energy costs evaluated. It is simply not worth casting most of the Hayatet spells as they provide no major advantage and it is more efficient to use base shaman melee abilities/spells as opposed to burning endurance and mana on Hayatet abilities.


These and many more issues that we feel should be addressed/examined can be found in this thread: http://www.vanguardshaman.com/forums/index.php/topic,615.0.html

Thanks,

[Garjala]

-Actually pet has tends to be anywhere except near you. It pops out of thin air when you tell it to attack, but between fights it is flying all around the chunk (probably trying to cause a forest fire).

-Also it seems to ghost sometimes ie. you see it next to you, but game says that pet it not up. If you cast pet again you get 2 birds of which only one works and attacks, other one just follows functioning bird around and does nothing. You need a relog or death to get rid of ghost.

-Bird attacks very slowly, so it is very ineffective. It also dies very easily.

-When you change chunk bird disappears

-When you change chunk phoenix illusion disappears making it possible to use horse etc. while levitating

-Since all shamans get levitation phoenix form should get something more to cover that. Maybe automatic rez with x% (70-80% chance?) probability if you die without any negative after effects (phoenix always rises from ashes after all)?

[Tem]

We definately need something. The other patrons get great buffs and good damage or good tanking. They also get lots of utility. Wolves get stealth, some of the fastest speed in the game and a snare. Bears get good endurance regen, Frenzy (special attacks hit twice, very sexy), reduced healing effectiveness and an AoE damage debuff, not to mention lots of armor and HPs/resists. We get, what? A miniscule damage shield? A few DoTs that are worse than our core abilities? The only saving grace of bird shaman right now is Acuity and the buff that pulses Cure Poison/Disease.

Please, up the damage of our patrons abilities. Up the damage of our pet. Give us a good buff in the lines of the bear and the dog. Give us some kind of utility. Also, the illusion should be the best levitate in the game. Don't give us the ability to gain altitude, but let us maintain the level that we are on. It'll hardly be game breaking and it'll be something unique unto the patron.

I have faith in you guys!

[Toombs]

Hello Anos small world!! :D

Let us not forget people:

- ALL Psionicist get Acumen at 14
- Hayatet Shamans get Acuity at 26 :rolleyes:

From what I read over at vanguardshaman.com many of the Hayatet spells/skills are...

/QUOTES VW COMMERCIAL ON

"definetly sucking" (see: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1948433946923483148&q=vw+commercial)

/QUOTES VW COMMERCIAL OFF

...compared to the other two Shaman specs.

Our pet is weak. Our Acuity is available WAY too late in levels and SHOULD be a level 15-18 spell. Our fire based spells are weak, useless vs. base Shaman spells. Our value vs. the other two Shaman spec in groups is the pits.

I hope Hayatet Shamans get some overdue improvements spell/skill wise because we are a paper tiger (thats on fire).

The spec is very poorly thought out. Whoever did the spells and abilities for Hayatet well...

/QUOTES VW COMMERCIAL ON

"you get an F" (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDVxPaSyuV8)

/QUOTES VW COMMERCIAL OFF

The current state of the Hayatet Shaman spec is represented in both VW videos as the OLDER cars, and should be dumped like the older cars are in the videos... wheres our "VW"? cos we need un-pimping too!

Particularly fitting is the name of the blue car "The Flame" since we are talking about a fire based Shaman spec (The Lame).

Hayatet Shamans can also fly.......... roll last VW commercial (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZyXkllaMU)

oh snap! Does Sigil have a catapult?

:D :twisted:

[Koos]

What Anos said, hit the nail right on the head.

Hayatet really needs to be looked at, please.

Right now, we are the laughing stock of the Shaman world. The old men with man-nappies. The kids that never make it onto the team and end up becoming referees. The ugly kid who has to pay for nookie...

Devs help us, make the world a better place.

[Avariel]

As I see it we are only not gimped because the core (non-patron) shaman is not gimped.

We are like core shaman with fluff fire spells.

But still we have no word on if this is even being looked at.

[Garjala]

As I see it we are only not gimped because the core (non-patron) shaman is not gimped.

We are like core shaman with fluff fire spells.

But still we have no word on if this is even being looked at.
I have serious doubt that bird is not worth casting at all. And after checking fireclaw description and doing some quick math I decided to leave it out of my spellbars. It is not worth using.

Yes, I am very disappointed with Hayatet. And I am willing to say that if Sigil does not fix Hayatet line soon, phoenix is not going to rise from the ashes anymore as no shaman will play it.

[Mushok]

/signed

Although I enjoy my shaman thoroughly, I am now questioning why I went Hayatet. I like the concept of this patron very much, and went into it knowing there was many fixes needed. Assuming at some point it would be addressed, very much like rogues were today. I am hoping something official is announced soon about the look into this patron, and some changes being planned. I find no advantage going with this patron especially due to our mana regen buff (Acuity) not stacking with Psi's, being weaker, and getting it at a much later level. I would at least like a percentage stack somehow added like our run buff + mount speed, or a revamp to get it at sooner levels, and possibly at least on par with Psi. Lots of other fixes needed, including the mana efficiency of our fire spells, so we can get an advantage out of them.

[ZakzimusMaximus]

I have serious doubt that bird is not worth casting at all. And after checking fireclaw description and doing some quick math I decided to leave it out of my spellbars. It is not worth using.

Yes, I am very disappointed with Hayatet. And I am willing to say that if Sigil does not fix Hayatet line soon, phoenix is not going to rise from the ashes anymore as no shaman will play it.

First, Id like to say the best thing I think they can do for Hayatet is a complete revamp get rid of all the crap spells/abilities they have now and redo them with NO ENDURANCE COST.

Even better instead of backing us into a corner with fire abilities redo the whole hayatet thing as like an owl or some other fantasy smart bird so we can get different abilities all together but are still mana/spell based. Play it in that hayatet fired her pheonix minions and adopted a new minion form cause the pheonix's kept burning down her house.

Barring that,

-remove or reduce DRASTICALLY endurance cost on abilities.
-redo bird form abilities: IE 20% to all magic dmg/healing instead of just fire.
-a self-rez of some sort so that having a pheonix shaman in a raid is actually a good thing instead of just eh hes high lvl slot filler. Raid recovery
-add a wis/vit stat buff spell self or group. Bears/Wolf get stat buffers why not us? Acuity is super-duper but psionicist get it better like 2 lvls later or something.
-pheonix patron form can actually fly possibly a high lvl form addition, were not penguins after all.

[Kexin]

The giant block of hell levels from 15 to 26 for acuity must end. If they do nothing else they should at least do that. Think about it, that is 11 freaking levels until you get a patron ability that is even remotely useful. Bear and wolf shammies get theirs at 18 and 20.

The problem is after 26 we have absolutely nothing to look forward to since our dots and nukes are useless energy sink. We seriously need something useful to stay in step with the other healers. Maybe an offensive proc, some vit buffs or increased healing abilites.

Are we broken? No. Our core shamman abilites do work but our patron abilities are next to pointless.

[Rhadagast]

hayatet shaman is really gin bad...all our patron abillities are usefull... and some dev could at least come here and tell us they are workin on our problem! We aren´t asking to be overpower, we just want some balance with other patrons, that are by far more powerfull than us by now! SIGIL YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT HAYATET URGENT! AND NEED TO GIVE US ANSWERS URGENT AS WELL!

[Avariel]

hayatet shaman is really gin bad...all our patron abillities are usefull... and some dev could at least come here and tell us they are workin on our problem! We aren´t asking to be overpower, we just want some balance with other patrons, that are by far more powerfull than us by now! SIGIL YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT HAYATET URGENT! AND NEED TO GIVE US ANSWERS URGENT AS WELL!

I would put it more like this...

The Hayatet shaman is really rather bad and we feel it would be quite nice if a developer could pop in and tell us if they are working on fixing the issues with our patron.

We are not really asking to be made overly powerful, in truth we just wish to have a similar level of power to those shaman who follow the other two patrons.

Sigil, please do something about the Hayatet shaman patron.
We feel the need for some prompt developer feedback on this issue as a matter of some urgency.

[Caniss]

Hayatet indeed has nothing going for it except its flashy looks. Unfortunetly even something needs to be done about them.

Right now there is no way to disable particle effects. Our bird is pretty but both our form and pet can cause unwanted lag for some party members. I end up not using either of them because of this. Hopefully a particle effects filter will be soon installed to fix lag issues for many people, and hopefully this happens before raid time. Although I hope there are options to simply disable particles of pets/forms because not everyone wants to lower the quality of their gaming experience just because a shaman wants to use his bird form.

Another very serious issue, already pointed out in several other posts on this board and other fansites, is the resist rate and cost of our nukes. I am unsure if its intentional that a true casting mage(sorc,psi, etc) has a better chance of landing a DD spell successfully on a mob over a priest...but if it is I can deal with that. However the current rate at which we land DD spells is completely unrealistic. If I debuff a blue con's fire resist(or spiritual resist for that matter) I should be able to land a nuke at least more than 1 out of 5 casts. It is pretty frustrating to go through sometimes 3/4 a bar of mana before even seeing a DD land.

Now, the biggest concern I have with Hayatet is that Acuity is not stacking with Acumen. Right now the only thing my Patron would bring to a raid is fire resist, and thats only if my fire resist stacked with other classes(Sorry I have not tested it yet, I am scared to maybe :P).

There are more issues but instead of posting more whining ill just make a list Copying what was already posted and more of my own

Hayatet
-Fire Claw provides no good incentive to use it over spirit strike. It uses more mana and endurance for very little gain.
-Fire Claw neither creates nor uses any weaknesses.
-Fire Claw has no bolt animation like it used to. Cast animation goes off and there is a burst on the NPC but nothing in between.
-All DD's resist rates are too high
-Hayatet Totem Form gives levitate which seems redundant when the entire class gains levitate as a buff.
-Pet has a tendancy to run off and fight from great distances.
-If pet is not stuck under the world or fighting at great distances it is humping the mobs head or your own
-Pet should fight at max casting range the entire time, no one wants bird ass in their face
-Breath of Immolation resistance should be examined.
-Hayatet abilities need to have their endurance+energy costs evaluated. It is simply not worth casting most of the Hayatet spells as they provide no major advantage and it is more efficient to use base shaman melee abilities/spells as opposed to burning endurance and mana on Hayatet abilities.
-Lag from our form and pet are too severe for many PCs
-You should be able to have more than one pet ability on auto cast
-Acuity doesnt stack with Acumen, it is pointless end game
-Burning mantle doesnt return damage on every melee hit
-Buffs last 30 mins, not 1 hour(not just our class)
-Over all balance of patrons is a problem

[puddles]

I play a level 38 shaman of hayatet.

Almost every suggestion/gripe listed above or on vanguardshaman deals with our dps and its relative inefficiency when compared to other classes. The only thing I would suggest here is to keep in mind that our primary role is that of a healer. Considering the things we can solo (that some offensive casters and offensive melees simply cannot), and the dps we dish out as is, making us any more efficient w/ our dps would overpower us imo.

[Mongo]

I don't know that we need to be more powerful but it has to be examined. (I am a 34 Hyatet for reference) in the simple fact that I do more dps and am much more efficient using base shaman abilities and nothing but the hyatet pet and Acuity if there is no Psi in the group. So in that regards it feels pretty pointless to have taken the totem. There are some other cool things down the line but right now its just not all that worth while when you can bring so much more to a group with any of the other patrons.

[Garjala]

I play a level 38 shaman of hayatet.

Almost every suggestion/gripe listed above or on vanguardshaman deals with our dps and its relative inefficiency when compared to other classes. The only thing I would suggest here is to keep in mind that our primary role is that of a healer. Considering the things we can solo (that some offensive casters and offensive melees simply cannot), and the dps we dish out as is, making us any more efficient w/ our dps would overpower us imo.
Well, something must be done anyway. Other patrons get all kinds of handy things which benefit group and caster, but we get ONLY acuity which imho comes way, way, way too late. Bird sucks so totally that I only cast it when I solo some quest and I never even try to heal it. I have never cast any other Hayatet line abilities except Wings and pet sometimes (I did quick simple math and left hayatet nukes out of my spellbars, they just waste space there).

[Caniss]

I play a level 38 shaman of hayatet.

Almost every suggestion/gripe listed above or on vanguardshaman deals with our dps and its relative inefficiency when compared to other classes. The only thing I would suggest here is to keep in mind that our primary role is that of a healer. Considering the things we can solo (that some offensive casters and offensive melees simply cannot), and the dps we dish out as is, making us any more efficient w/ our dps would overpower us imo.


I agree that increasing our dps is not the way to go, we are a healer class no way around it.

IThe number one thing that most classes need is simply FIXING their current skills, then nerfing or upgrading should come into play.

My concern is not how much damage I put out, its more how useful my buffs are compared to others. Also, how frustrating it is to cast and get resisted over and over again. if it takes lowering our DDs to give them a better chance of landing, I am all for it. If the high resist rate is to tone down our DPS... well thats just annoying.

[Anos]

I certainly don't feel gimped @ 26 by any stretch of the imagination. HOWEVER it's the question of balance with the other patrons and what do I bring to a group until level 26? We (Hayatets) have been very patient and will continue to have patience,however if we could just get a "hey you all bring up some very good points and rest assured the Hayatet patron line is being looked at and addressed" is all we would need to make 99.9 % of the Hayatet population feel better.

I played the Hayatet for the fact that it was touted as being the highest DPS and I took a guess (based on abilities and spells) at whether they would be the most effective to a group or a raid. Being that I was going to be able to have an extra mana regen spell kinda fit that bill nicely of being a main healer and having that something extra for all the casters. At the moment all Hayatets are pretty much in limbo about where we fit into the group/raid game at any level much less @ a raid game level.

I mean in their current form if you were looking for a shaman, what patron would be your last choice?

These are the current things that we feel should be looked at and these were gathered from many different sources including shamans of other patrons.

Hayatet
-Fire Claw provides no good incentive to use it over spirit strike. It uses more mana and endurance for very little gain.
-Fire Claw neither creates nor uses any weaknesses.
-Fire Claw has no bolt animation like it used to. Cast animation goes off and there is a burst on the NPC but nothing in between.
-Hayatet Totem Form gives levitate which seems redundant when the entire class gains levitate as a buff.
-Pet has a tendancy to run off and fight from great distances.
-Breath of Immolation resistance should be examined.
-Hayatet abilities need to have their endurance+energy costs evaluated. It is simply not worth casting most of the Hayatet spells as they provide no major advantage and it is more efficient to use base shaman melee abilities/spells as opposed to burning endurance and mana on Hayatet abilities.


These and many more issues that we feel should be addressed/examined can be found in this thread: http://www.vanguardshaman.com/forums/index.php/topic,615.0.html

Thanks,

I play a level 38 shaman of hayatet.

Almost every suggestion/gripe listed above or on vanguardshaman deals with our dps and its relative inefficiency when compared to other classes. The only thing I would suggest here is to keep in mind that our primary role is that of a healer. Considering the things we can solo (that some offensive casters and offensive melees simply cannot), and the dps we dish out as is, making us any more efficient w/ our dps would overpower us imo.

You sir/ma'm are wrong. I am one of the moderators on vanguardshaman.com and I challenge you to point out one post where I compare my dps to that of a true dps class.

Where in my original post or on www.vanguardshaman.com did I compare Hayatet to another dps class? I would never want to be close to the dps of a true dps class because that is not my primary role as you have pointed out. I would assume that Tuurgin/Rakurr feel the same way. My primary role is that of a healer. If you will read my multiple posts on both boards concerning the Hayatet and my concerns you will see that never have I ever compared us to a true dps class.

Our points have to do with equality WITHIN THE CLASS, not outside of it.

If you are going to make claims have the facts before typing. Think twice type once.

[Reeny]

Its a shame that the little added benefits our phoenix give us are unusable because of the added lag it causes in small places. I have had group members say that my bird causes them to go LD. Now that might be an exaggeration but none the less I know my FPS goes down if I go into patron form or if I pull out my pet in a dugeon.

I have np with my dps over all, I can solo fine and enjoy playing my shaman. My major gripe at this point is that our one group utility is not given to us till level 26. Since this is not consistant with the other patrons I feel it should be addressed sooner not later. Already too much time has passed to resolve this simple issue.

I use fire claw often and although its not as mana efficient as Spirit Strike I enjoy seeing some good size initial hits from it while in Phoenix form. The mana vs damage ratio on this spell should be retuned making it more desireable to use.

It has been pointed out many times that there is no reason to pick a Hayatet shaman over another patron especially prior to level 26. Given the fact we can not pull out our pet in most situations because of lag gives us a disadvantage. Since this game is group-centric in nature, allow us the joy of bringing something special to a group. Most of us are tried of waiting. We are a patient bunch for sure, but its been a month after release and there are enough of us at higher levels to give good feedback on the class. Its time to listen..

As I said I enjoy my shaman a great deal(level 25 now), and my love for my Hayatet shaman is based on what I know it can become and what I thought it was becoming. I am patient and have stated before my major fear is that we will not be retooled but other patrons will be nerfed to be more in line with our lack of utility and abilities.

I generally attempt to work within the structure of any game I am playing. I try not to ask for changes, but instead work with the structure/restrictions given. I have been supportive of my class and my patron since day one.

I am now onboard the train called "Hayatet Shaman are broken", the question is can Sigil get it back on track?

[Koos]

Have to add, that our Phoenix form practically has only 2 advantages :

1. +20% on Fire Dmg.
2. 8% Crit chance on Fire Dmg.
3. Levitate

Now our 3rd ability on this line, (levitation), is a joke. All Shamans get levitate at lvl 27/28(cant recall), so why give it to us as an Ability?

And even the fire dmg is a bit off...I dont mind too much the overall dmg we do, so why not rather give us (Int/Wis) based group buffs instead of dmg increase?(Specially considering Fire doesnt really have much to do with Shamans....Spirit/Cold/Disease is a bit more inline)
Maybe even a heal improvement. Or a Pulsing Disease/Poison Cure for the group when we are in the form. Just something to benefit our group. Give groups a reason to want us. And I really liked the "Self Res - Arise from Ashes" someone has mentioned earlier.

Right now, we dont have much reason to use our *Speciality*.

Then the Acuity buff, has to be changed. You cannot give two classes exactly the same spell, only 14 lvls apart. By the time Hayatet Shamans get Acuity I all Psi's will have Acuity II. This means that the Shaman will almsot never use it, considering there is a fair share of Psi's out there.

I wont get into the pet, as I dont want to hurt myself.

Devs, we will keep playing Hayatet Shamans because its the *Caster* option out of the 3 Patrons. But please let us know that you know. We just need some sign that there is knowledge behind the issues at hand, and that it will be looked at in the near future.

[sephira]

Have to add, that our Phoenix form practically has only 2 advantages :

1. +20% on Fire Dmg.
2. 8% Crit chance on Fire Dmg.
3. Levitate

Now our 3rd ability on this line, (levitation), is a joke. All Shamans get levitate at lvl 27/28(cant recall), so why give it to us as an Ability?



Maybe i am stupid, but why are those abilities not on par with Rakurr ?

In wolf form we get

1) 60% runspeed
2) about the same crit chance

Runspeed is conveniant but has no effect in combat. Yeah, maybe i am the first to be back and revive the wiped team. And thats it. Once you got the expensive mount you outride that. So 20% more damage sounds fair for a damage based shaman.

[Garjala]

Maybe i am stupid, but why are those abilities not on par with Rakurr ?

In wolf form we get

1) 60% runspeed
2) about the same crit chance

Runspeed is conveniant but has no effect in combat. Yeah, maybe i am the first to be back and revive the wiped team. And thats it. Once you got the expensive mount you outride that. So 20% more damage sounds fair for a damage based shaman.
Every shaman gets levitate, Hayatet or not. Your runspeed in Rakurr only. And have you checked how "good" hayatet spells are? I did and thus did not include any of them to my spellbar. All of those fire based spells are more or less jokes and adding 20% to their pitiful damage does not make them useful.

[Avariel]

I could make a repost to the above post, but instead I will let the numbers on this VGShaman poll do the talking...

http://www.vanguardshaman.com/forums/index.php/topic,969.0.html


What Patron Are You Now?

Bird 25 (21%)
Bear 48 (40.3%)
Wolf 46 (38.7%)

Total Voters: 119

[Koos]

Maybe i am stupid, but why are those abilities not on par with Rakurr ?

In wolf form we get

1) 60% runspeed
2) about the same crit chance

Runspeed is conveniant but has no effect in combat. Yeah, maybe i am the first to be back and revive the wiped team. And thats it. Once you got the expensive mount you outride that. So 20% more damage sounds fair for a damage based shaman.

Thats fine, if Levitate is an *Added* bonus, then im ok with it being given to other shamans later as well.

So our Crit chances are the same.

And for 60% run speed, we get 20% fire dmg.

Now if Fire Spells were a tad more effective I could see it being even. But unfortunately most shamans just use our Spirit Strike nuke, because the Mana/Dmg Ratio is alot better than our Fire Claw I.

[sephira]

Thats fine, if Levitate is an *Added* bonus, then im ok with it being given to other shamans later as well.

So our Crit chances are the same.

And for 60% run speed, we get 20% fire dmg.

Now if Fire Spells were a tad more effective I could see it being even. But unfortunately most shamans just use our Spirit Strike nuke, because the Mana/Dmg Ratio is alot better than our Fire Claw I.

What is the damage of those spells ? I dont have number but the two melee attacks we get from Rakurr arent that uber. One of them is a combo with the dog and therefor not very useful when shapeshifted. The other one is a bleed with moderate damage. When teamhealer i use this one and auto-attack only.

Maybe your fire spells need a bit of a boost. I dont know them. But you also have to be aware that your 20% boost is growing exponential and might be awesome in higher levels.

Do the Hayatet shamans build up INT ?

[Garjala]

What is the damage of those spells ? So low that you do not want to use them over standard shaman spells.

Maybe your fire spells need a bit of a boost. I dont know them. But you also have to be aware that your 20% boost is growing exponential and might be awesome in higher levels. Based on reports in higher levels we do not rock, we just suck slightly less.

Do the Hayatet shamans build up INT ? Does it matter? If hayatet spells are not better than standard shaman spells, they will not be better no matter how much you up your int (remember that in increases damage of standard spells too).
So?

[sephira]

So?

So nothing ;) I was not saying that Hayatet shamans are whiners. I just didnt understand from pervious posts and i dont know anything else then my own Rakurr shaman. I am just curious.

Our patron combat arts are less effective then the core combat arts too. But they are useful because they have their own timer. Hayatet spells are casts and spirit strike has almost no timer. Right ? So if the firespells + 20% dont do more damage or use less energy then spirit strike, then i guess the Hayatet shamans need a small tweak.

That said without knowing if there are weapons with fire damage in higher levels or if there are mobs with resistance against mental/physical damage. I am only 20 yet.

[Caniss]

Shaman DPS should be brought down, or true DPS classes should be brought up. Wolf and Bear Shammies are far too dps heavy in my opinion. Doing as much/or more damage than someone like a monk and still being able to heal with great efficiency is absurd.

As a priest class we need effective heals, wards and utility buffs that WORK and are on par with priests of other kinds (Looking at cleric buffs)

Hayatet is the worst by far in comparison to other patrons as far as group utility goes.

End game we have nothing but an effective fire resist buff. While bear and wolf get great melee buffs.

[Deicide]

Haven't read the rest of the thread but IMHO:

- Instead of being only fire resist, it should be resist to all magic. Lower it down from 30% to 15% and make it so that the infamous "brings your resistance to XXX to 0" debuff all mobs have doesn't affect it.

- Instead of giving 8% crit to fire spells (or is it 10%), lower it down to 5% and make it affect all spells.

This would give the shaman Hayatet a caster specific resistance as well as a true caster focus.

I also agree with a suggestion I've read that said in phoenix form you should be able to self-rez once dead (with little to no mana/health). This wouldn't really be overpowered and it would add a nice twist / purpose to the hayatet form.

[Koos]

What is the damage of those spells ?

As I am sure you know, the Spirit Strike hits for about 260+-. (Edit: had to correct this)

Fire Claw hits for Roundabout 225+- (adding a 90-100 dot over 12 seconds) - This is including Nag'Suul bond (+15%) and Phoenix form(+20%). given the nature of the dot after the nuke, it means we rarely spam the nuke, otherwise the nukes Power/Mana ratio is really bad.

I dont have number but the two melee attacks we get from Rakurr arent that uber. One of them is a combo with the dog and therefor not very useful when shapeshifted. The other one is a bleed with moderate damage. When teamhealer i use this one and auto-attack only.

Our pet does 60-70 dmg per hit, with Fire Quills doing about 80 per hit.

Also the pet is buggy. Sometimes it will fly away, dissapear completely, suddenly pop back up, seem like its missing attacks. Its just annoying.

Maybe your fire spells need a bit of a boost. I dont know them. But you also have to be aware that your 20% boost is growing exponential and might be awesome in higher levels.

BUT once again, I dont believe this is our major malfunction. Our major Malfuntion is the lack of Group Oriented buffs. We are a healer class... We need to be able to Support our groups. Other classes do the dmg, we support and keep them alive. Choosing Hayatet had the benefit of some dmg. But I still thought we would have a decent group buff (Acuity) this however has been brought down to nothing, considering it does not Stack with Psi's Acumen (so I have heard, I am not that lvl yet). I would much rather keep the fire nukes like they are now, and get some decent group utility into the Patron. Wisdom Buffs/Int Buffs/Mana Buffs/Dmg buffs to the group maybe/Healing buffs.

That is just my opinion.

Do the Hayatet shamans build up INT ?

Alot of Hayatet Shamans are Max Wisdom / Vitality / Int in that order. (my int and Vit are on par with my Wisdom maxed).

[Garjala]

- Instead of giving 8% crit to fire spells (or is it 10%), lower it down to 5% and make it affect all spells.

You do not even notice 5% increase to something unless you do parse of combat log and check numbers...

[Garjala]

Our pet does 60-70 dmg per hit, with Fire Quills doing about 80 per hit. Bird seems to get damage update at level 20. After that Fiery Quills hit for about 120 if I remember correctly. Does not make bird better though, since mobs also have much more hp.

Also the pet is buggy. Sometimes it will fly away, dissapear completely, suddenly pop back up, seem like its missing attacks. Its just annoying.
It also disappears when you pass chunk border. And when mob dies, bird tends to park directly above the corpse preventing looting in a very effective way.


BUT once again, I dont believe this is our major malfunction. Our major Malfuntion is the lack of Group Oriented buffs. We are a healer class... We need to be able to Support our groups. I agree. Buffs Hayatet line gets are very little or no use and 30 min timer does not make them any better.

Offtopic: Does anyone find Oracle's Sight to be kind of funny? It gives you enough power for 1/2 spell. 20% shorter casting time is nice though.


Alot of Hayatet Shamans are Max Wisdom / Vitality / Int in that order. (my int and Vit are on par with my Wisdom maxed). True, thats the build at least I am doing.

I hope that Sigil will fix Hayatet soon. It is borked.

[sephira]

I hope that Sigil will fix Hayatet soon. It is borked.

heh :) Dont worry about the disapearing pet on borders and the times when the pet goes somewhere else and then attacks out of nowhere. Rakurr is the same. Its all the buggy zoning through chunks or when i send the pet to attack a mob i cant reach (half inside a rock or such). I am even able to top that. Sometimes my dog gets lost on a border but then suddenly reapears. But without controls. I can cast a new one and then have two of them. Dont worry, only one attacks. So no double dps exploit ;) I also have the problem that the dog camps corpses and makes it hard to target and loot. I have to move some steps to make the pet move.

I do agree that all shamans need a fix on that chunk issue. Its annoying. Other than that i can not agree on lowering melee damage. I honestly think my Rakurr shaman is perfect without being overpowered.

[elektra]

/bump

This seriously needs looking at by the devs ASAP, many people who chose Hayatet as patron are at a disadvantage compared to the other 2 patrons.
I love the idea of Hayatet and hope it is fixed soon but as it stands I can't recommend anyone to take this as their patron.

[Garjala]

I dinged to 22 today and got Breath of Immolation 1. I tested it on 3 dot mobs three levels below my own. Resist rate seems to be about 80%. Now tell me why I am not impressed.

[Garjala]

I am even able to top that. Sometimes my dog gets lost on a border but then suddenly reapears. But without controls. I can cast a new one and then have two of them. Dont worry, only one attacks. So no double dps exploit ;)
Well, same happens with bird every now and then. It is quite rare, but irritation bug.

I think that Rakurr is fine and probably Tuurgin too, but Hayatet needs serious boost.

[Koos]

Well, same happens with bird every now and then. It is quite rare, but irritation bug.

I think that Rakurr is fine and probably Tuurgin too, but Hayatet needs serious boost.

I have had 3 Birds at once...once.

I thought my pc would burn-out with all the particles on the screen :/

[elektra]

If I ask nicely, could a dev please post whether they are working on fixing Hayatet shamans or not ? :)

Pretty please :)

[Koos]

If I ask nicely, could a dev please post whether they are working on fixing Hayatet shamans or not ? :)

Pretty please :)

I second that.

Any Devs willing to inform us of when you will look into the Hayatet issues?

[Garjala]

Vanguardshaman had post saying that devs had told to Glipkerio that Hayatet line is under work atm. Dunno if that is true, at least I hope so.

[Anos]

Vanguardshaman had post saying that devs had told to Glipkerio that Hayatet line is under work atm. Dunno if that is true, at least I hope so.

Yes it was true and here are the test server patch notes.

It's kinda like EQ's Test of Patience...and we passed it appears :)

- Shaman
- All versions of Spirit Strike are now 2 second casts
- Hayatet Totemic abilities that previously cost mana no longer do.
- Changed the endurance cost of Firestorm to 40
- Changed the endurance cost of Phoenix Fury to 10
- Changed the endurance cost of Breath of Immolation to 25
- Changed the endurance cost of Ignite to 17
- Acuity is now trainable at level 18. Levels of other version of Acuity have changed so you may need to commune with Hayatet to gain the latest one.
- Acuity now buffs intelligence.
- A small amount of the regeneration portion of Acuity now stacks with other energy regen buffs.
- Burning Mantle has been moved to level 26. The first version has been changed to Smoldering Mantle and is no longer available on vendors and has remained a level 18 spell. If you have this spell you will keep it. If you have yet to earn Burning Mantle you will need to wait until level 26 to gain it.
- Fire Claw is now available at level 15.
- Changed the endurance cost of Fire Claw to 20.
- All Offensive flavored Totemic Gifts should no cost less mana.

[elektra]

Yes it was true and here are the test server patch notes.

It's kinda like EQ's Test of Patience...and we passed it appears :)

- Shaman
- All versions of Spirit Strike are now 2 second casts
- Hayatet Totemic abilities that previously cost mana no longer do.
- Changed the endurance cost of Firestorm to 40
- Changed the endurance cost of Phoenix Fury to 10
- Changed the endurance cost of Breath of Immolation to 25
- Changed the endurance cost of Ignite to 17
- Acuity is now trainable at level 18. Levels of other version of Acuity have changed so you may need to commune with Hayatet to gain the latest one.
- Acuity now buffs intelligence.
- A small amount of the regeneration portion of Acuity now stacks with other energy regen buffs.
- Burning Mantle has been moved to level 26. The first version has been changed to Smoldering Mantle and is no longer available on vendors and has remained a level 18 spell. If you have this spell you will keep it. If you have yet to earn Burning Mantle you will need to wait until level 26 to gain it.
- Fire Claw is now available at level 15.
- Changed the endurance cost of Fire Claw to 20.
- All Offensive flavored Totemic Gifts should no cost less mana.


Nice to see something coming to us soon :)
Nothing about whether the bird will do better DPS but I'll take what I'm given at this stage lol...these changes have to be an improvement on the current state of affairs.

Finally, it may be worth levelling my Hayatet shaman again:)

[Kexin]

Nice to see something coming to us soon :)
Nothing about whether the bird will do better DPS but I'll take what I'm given at this stage lol...these changes have to be an improvement on the current state of affairs.

Finally, it may be worth levelling my Hayatet shaman again:)

I would trade most of my dps for more Hayatet ultility and buffs. As it stands now, other than energy regen we really don't do much. Auto rez or evac would be awesome and a mt aggro increaser would be great too.

[Flight]

I really appreciate the devs taking time to work on us and these are great changes.

I remain a little underwhelmed and disappointed. These are common sense balance fixes to issues that made no sense, to existing abilities we had. Our main ability (Fire DoT) was less efficient than generic dd Spirit Strike, for example. No mana cost for it is a nice change, which means it is now worth using.

But my main concern was our balance with the other totems. We needed something new to bring us up to level with them. Essentially, we got a little mana and Acuity earlier than we did.


I remain really pleased with these changes and mean it when I talk about appreciating the devs spending time on us. Because we have stuck it out with the obviously weakest of the three totems I expect most people will be delighted with this but as far as bringing us up to the group utility and soloing ability of the other two totems we still fall far short.


For those of us already 26, these changes deliver very little indeed.

[Koos]

Nice to see changes are being made.

Thanks for the heads-up, Anos.

[Keits]

YES!!! I knew my waiting at lv16 on my Hayatet Shammy would pay off. I just knew we would get our fixes. Now ill be happy to play him again. These changes make sense. Now we can deal damage with endurance too, without harming our healing pool. Its perfect. Good job Sigil.