The squishy factor of Blood Mages

[flyingpenguin]

Hello again, so I have been reading these forums here about blood mages for a while, and I have not heard a single answer to this question:

What do Blood Mages get that makes up for the fact that we are so dagum squishy?

For groups squishiness isn't much of a factor...I am mainly talking about solo play (which should be viable for all classes).

In comparison:

Clerics heal as well as we do, they wear plate, and their dps is based on endurance rather than melee so they don't have the issue of "running out".

Disciples...same thing (except for plate)...heck even their heals are partially endurance based so they are friggen energizer bunnies.

Dunno much about shamans except they kite like mofos.

Blood Mages...wear cloth...use only mana attacks and heals...and our most powerful heals can't even be cast on ourselves.

Now...I know...the hardcore says that they like the "difficulty" of the bmg, and if you want to play on "ez" mode, then roll a cleric, but that isn't the point here.

My point is, we (blood mages) are seriously weakened because we are the only healing class that wears cloth. Furthermore, unlike other cloth wearers we don't have the ability to kite, or snare for soloability.

So what do we get to make up for this big weakness? Anything?

[Charnas]

My opinion of this is as follows...
Healing Ability = Equal for all classes
Damage Mitigation = Cleric, Disciple/Shaman, Bloodmage
DPS Contribution = Bloodmage, Disciple/Shaman, Cleric

[flyingpenguin]

My opinion of this is as follows...
Healing Ability = Equal for all classes
Damage Mitigation = Cleric, Disciple/Shaman, Bloodmage
DPS Contribution = Bloodmage, Disciple/Shaman, Cleric

But there is more to it than that...there is survivability which is way more than just mitigation.

In a 2 minute fight, a BMG is gonna be way out gunned compared to another healer because we would have run outta energy while the bunnies over there just keep pluggin' away...

In a solo circumstance, survivability is what it is all about...

[Quinalla]

Bloodmages have lower survivability, all cloth classes do. To make up for it, they should have better dps. If you want a high survivability healer, don't roll the one cloth class :)

[Hokonoso]

Bloodmages have lower survivability, all cloth classes do. To make up for it, they should have better dps. If you want a high survivability healer, don't roll the one cloth class :)

QFT, if you are in a group with 2 other healers and you dont have to heal at all, you can chug out more dps than a sorc simply because you can drain for more mana and have another healer heal you back up whereas a sorc cant. if anything, what do clerics get that makes it worth rolling one instead of a bmg?

[flyingpenguin]

QFT, if you are in a group with 2 other healers and you dont have to heal at all, you can chug out more dps than a sorc simply because you can drain for more mana and have another healer heal you back up whereas a sorc cant. if anything, what do clerics get that makes it worth rolling one instead of a bmg?

Ahem...again...I am talking about soloability...not groups.

Like I said in the OP, in groups, squishiness isn't a factor.

But shoot..even in groups, if the crowd turns bad and heads your way, we are still at a disadvantage to the other healing classes cause the big bad 4 dot is gonna take us down in about 3 hits.

Again....what do we get to make up for the fact that we have virtually no mitigation. Other cloth wearers get snares and such to keep things at bay...or they get aggro reducers early on. BMG's don't get either of those (yes...we do get an aggro reducer at higher lvls, but by then it seems a bit late).

I know I am not the only one here who has wondered this because the question has been asked 100 times...just haven't heard an answer.

[hawnz]

QFT, if you are in a group with 2 other healers and you dont have to heal at all, you can chug out more dps than a sorc simply because you can drain for more mana and have another healer heal you back up whereas a sorc cant. if anything, what do clerics get that makes it worth rolling one instead of a bmg?

the option to use heavy, medium or light armor, shields, better immunities, stuns, lulls, invis vs undead, many extra abilities vs undead, rescues, the use of both their energy and endurance pools, and the ability to melee if they go OOM.

[Hokonoso]

Ahem...again...I am talking about soloability...not groups.

Like I said in the OP, in groups, squishiness isn't a factor.

But shoot..even in groups, if the crowd turns bad and heads your way, we are still at a disadvantage to the other healing classes cause the big bad 4 dot is gonna take us down in about 3 hits.

Again....what do we get to make up for the fact that we have virtually no mitigation. Other cloth wearers get snares and such to keep things at bay...or they get aggro reducers early on. BMG's don't get either of those (yes...we do get an aggro reducer at higher lvls, but by then it seems a bit late).

I know I am not the only one here who has wondered this because the question has been asked 100 times...just haven't heard an answer.

You get nothing and it is intended as this is a 80% group 20% solo game so 20% of the time you will be gimp but 80% of the time you will own, get over it.

[furbal]

Ahem...again...I am talking about soloability...not groups.

Like I said in the OP, in groups, squishiness isn't a factor.

But shoot..even in groups, if the crowd turns bad and heads your way, we are still at a disadvantage to the other healing classes cause the big bad 4 dot is gonna take us down in about 3 hits.

Again....what do we get to make up for the fact that we have virtually no mitigation. Other cloth wearers get snares and such to keep things at bay...or they get aggro reducers early on. BMG's don't get either of those (yes...we do get an aggro reducer at higher lvls, but by then it seems a bit late).

I know I am not the only one here who has wondered this because the question has been asked 100 times...just haven't heard an answer.



Yes thats a big problem some bm claim that can solo 4 3 dots at same time ,which i don't believe not solo, with cloth 3 hits you get stunned so you end up taking a dirt nap.

We have no mitigation and our root is sooooo slow to cast by the time tank fires an arrow ill cast 3 secs before but by the time it lands mobs are in our faces.

If all party members are taking alot of aoe damage at lower levels we can't keep them alive as cost of our healing spells are up with last patch.

Try playing the other healing classes they get more of everything than blood mages do, better buffs, better mitigation,mana regn ect. ect.

I have tried the other ones they solo much better than us esp on hard hitting mobs.

The fact that our best heals can't heal ourself is a bad combo with no mitigation, if we had self hots maybe we would be on par with other healing classes but we are not.

I find the drains just don't cut it you get resisted and you take a dirt nap and our heal spells generate too much agro.

[flyingpenguin]

You get nothing and it is intended as this is a 80% group 20% solo game so 20% of the time you will be gimp but 80% of the time you will own, get over it.

Wow...very productive...

Ok...so in 80% of the time...blood mages own? Hmmm...don't think so. I enjoy the class, don't get me wrong...I enjoy the fact that we are more difficult, and when the shiz hits the fan things get hectic, but that isn't the point. If things were just more complicated, but the end result was that we were just as effective in all areas as the other healing classes, then that would be fine, but that isn't the case.

The point, my productive friend, is that the other healers can do what we do PLUS they aren't made of paper. That is an inherent disadvantage.

What do we get in return?

Do we get more utility? Not really...our symbiotes are cool, but they are just a fancy buff/debuff

Do we do more dps? Probably some, but at the expense of healing effectiveness. A cleric or dsc can wade in and cause some decent damage without affecting their ability to heal because they don't have to use energy...

I just don't see it...

[Charnas]

As a disciple, i'd like to call BS on the "Better Buffs" point that you make furbal.

[Koba]

I never have a problem solo, can take on 3 to 4 3dots of equal level, but it is a tough fight. Just have to use all the tools we have. As far as casting out best heal on ourselfs, our best heal is despoil and it is only castable on ourself. Solo you spam despoil to keep your health up and get in cyst and scarlet ritual when you can. When union drops from the mob put it back up. I feel the BM is pretty powerful solo and match up equal to any other healer in a group.

[furbal]

As a disciple, i'd like to call BS on the "Better Buffs" point that you make furbal.

I consider reactive heals one of the best buffs in game which disciples get, i would give anything for a reactive heal esp when getting chain stunned.

[furbal]

I never have a problem solo, can take on 3 to 4 3dots of equal level, but it is a tough fight. Just have to use all the tools we have. As far as casting out best heal on ourselfs, our best heal is despoil and it is only castable on ourself. Solo you spam despoil to keep your health up and get in cyst and scarlet ritual when you can. When union drops from the mob put it back up. I feel the BM is pretty powerful solo and match up equal to any other healer in a group.


I try that but with mutiple mobs i can't get any spells off as im constantly getting interrupted and stunned, beside root takes forever to cast and being cloth does not help.

Many times when i get jummped by 3+ mobs i get chained stunned the whole time from full to death and nothing i can do but die.

[flyingpenguin]

I never have a problem solo, can take on 3 to 4 3dots of equal level, but it is a tough fight. Just have to use all the tools we have. As far as casting out best heal on ourselfs, our best heal is despoil and it is only castable on ourself. Solo you spam despoil to keep your health up and get in cyst and scarlet ritual when you can. When union drops from the mob put it back up. I feel the BM is pretty powerful solo and match up equal to any other healer in a group.

Ok...at the risk of detailing my own thread...how do you do that? I have a hell of a time with a single 3 dot. Maybe I suck, but I am an eager student. With my meager skills, what you are saying is downright impossible.

So, in all sincerity...how in the hell do you do that?

[flyingpenguin]

I try that but with mutiple mobs i can't get any spells off as im constantly getting interrupted and stunned, beside root takes forever to cast and being cloth does not help.

Many times when i get jummped by 3+ mobs i get chained stunned the whole time from full to death and nothing i can do but die.


That is what happens to me...I get stunned to all hell or I get whacked so many times it takes 4 seconds to get my 1.5 heal off...

[riblet]

That is what happens to me...I get stunned to all hell or I get whacked so many times it takes 4 seconds to get my 1.5 heal off...

I have not much trouble with two 3-dots at once. I can solo 3 3-dots at once if I have to, but not if they are higher level than me. I use a combination of root to lead off, charm one, have it fight the other. When charm is wearing off of the first one, charm the other one. Then have it attack the one charm is wearing off. Now you start blasting the one you charmed first, should be dead fast, and it is still the only one attacking you. Re-root the first rooted one. Now the second one you charmed should be killed. Heal up after you kill it, and start on the third one.

This technique should avoid the getting stunned and interrupted problem as you only have one mob attacking you at any given time. As far as how to kill them, make sure you use the most mana efficient means at your disposal. Make sure to use mental transmutation, and use despoil for heals if possible. Use the DOTs, those are best damage. And use clicky-wand or staff effects for extra damage.

I am thinking you might be able to keep two mobs rooted, so that you can do four at once. But I am not sure I can keep my energy usage efficient enough to kill four 3-dots without extra root / MT / self heal / root technique. And that is a time-wasting technique. For chest-beating purposes, four-at-once might be OK. though I think that chain-killing singles or two-at-once is faster exp solo.

All told, I would rather group. Grouping is where half my powers can be used.

[Koba]

Thanks for the reply Riblet. That is exactly how it is done. Riblet is correct that it is not efficient to do this but it can be done. Like a said, 4 is possible but it is really hard to do. I don't run around doing this on a regular basis but when things happen and I get 3 on me at once I know I can do it.

I have died a lot trying different things just to see how far I can push the bloodmage. The trick is to keep your head and know what spells do what and when to use them and have a really good keyboard layout so everything is fast and easy to get to.

I use the G15 keyboard and have so much stuff macroed it is not funny. When I cast any spell I am in the right stance for the spell, switch out my focus for the max damage, cast a clicky staff, cast the spell, switch back to SF, cast clicky staff again.

I also prefer to group but play at some strange hours so solo is about all I can do when playing at strange hours. It is at this time that I try stuff just to see if I can do it. My record is 15 deaths in a row learning to do 4 even level 3 dots. So I do lose a lot of xp but I am not really worried about being the first to hit 50, just enjoying the game for a change. Solo, the best xp is 2Dots a level or two lower then yourself. You can rip thru them fast and without stopping (and I mean without ever stopping) until you are just to bored to go on. Just have to find a spot with a large spawn of them.

[bitter_bloodmage_01]

Clerics have better heals than us.

Clerics have more survivability by far than us.

Clerics are far more energy efficient than us.


Now heres the kicker. Remember that patch that raised the cost of ALL healing spells? Well guess what, bloodmage costs were already too high.

Guess what the nerf did? Our heals cost MORE THAN CLERIC. We also dont have a good energy based heal over time.

Jeters, compile the legitimate arguments, Get them to the dev's. There ARE SERIOUS issues with the bloodmage class.

WE ARE BEING SHUNNED AS MAIN HEALERS. Do the dev's understand there are reasons for this?

GET MENTAL TRANSMUTE LOOKED AT. HARD.

[furbal]

Yes i would like to see blood mages spells use more health and less energy what the main imbalance of this class is:

Any of the other healing classes run out of energy solo they can melee we get to???? die..........

Every try to melee a mob as a blood mage ,say you pull 2 you root 1 this mob is 3 lvl higher you blow all you energy trying to take it down, it dies your out of energy and next mob starts beating on you.

No survivability whatsoever in this situation a cleric or shaman or disciple would just melee till they had enough energy, mental trans is useless in this situation.

We need some sort of an emergency ability/spell maybe a symbiote that when used gives us energy or life back like life stones/mana stones for warlocks\mages in wow a 1 shot deal.

[Koba]

Furbal, I can kill 2dots 3 levels above me almost non-stop. Spend some of that copper you have in the bank on some gear and you will be surprised and the difference it makes.

If you are fighting in an area over your head then yes, adds will kill you if you are not really careful. There are mobs I can kill just barely and an add will kill me. You know what? I don't xp solo in those areas and if I happen to need to kill in that area for a quest I ensure I pull the mob to a spot where I will not get an add and out of the way of re-spawns.

Furbal % Bitter you can always make a different healer and be happy. Except for a few bugs I am very happy with the BM and have no problems healing, soloing or killing things.

[Sturmlied]

Why is everyone comlaining about the blood mage heals?

I see all heals (especially Infuse Health) as a emergency spell, not as one of our main tools.

EV is our main heal and YES, there are some issues with EV, but imho it's the most manaefficient way to heal in Vanguard. And the manacosts for EV where not raised.

And for the squishy factor. Look at our self only buff, with that I have more AC then a rare item equipped disciple.

I agree with the fact that we should have a better way to gain mana, because other healers can do something when the run out of it, we can just stand around or die.

The easy solution would be to lower the recast timer of MT.

[riblet]

Why are people complaining that they can not kill two 2-dot mobs three levels above them? Is the game supposed to be that easy? I know for a fact that I, and others blood mages posting here can. But that is beside the point. Why should it be a necessary attribute of a blood mage to kill not just one three level higher mob, but two at once? :twisted:

[hawnz]

I agree with the fact that we should have a better way to gain mana, because other healers can do something when the run out of it, we can just stand around or die.

The easy solution would be to lower the recast timer of MT.

i think we should have a continuing upgrade line of MT that gets more and more efficient as it goes. ie:

level 8 MT1: 15% health -> energy @ 50% rate (how it is now)
level 20 MT2: 15% health -> energy @ 75% rate
level 34 MT3: 15% health -> energy @ 100% rate
level 50 MT4: 10% health -> energy @ 125% rate (costs 3 BU)

average level 8 BM has ~550 hp. MT1 is 83 hp for 41 energy
average level 20 BM has ~1900 hp. MT2 would be 285 hp for 214 energy
average level 34 BM has ~3000 hp. MT3 would be 450 hp for 450 energy
average level 50 BM has ?5000 hp? MT3 would be 500 hp for 625 energy


you can obviously tweak those numbers, but it just gives an example of a continuing MT line.

[hawnz]

Why are people complaining that they can not kill two 2-dot mobs three levels above them? Is the game supposed to be that easy? I know for a fact that I, and others blood mages posting here can. But that is beside the point. Why should it be a necessary attribute of a blood mage to kill not just one three level higher mob, but two at once? :twisted:

i think because when it is said that someone can do something like that, it's sort of assumed that that's what should be done. those situations are probably more by accident or out of necessity to do a quest or grab a named, and not exactly efficient grinding mobs. i know i can tap sprint if a fight gets ugly and run around in a circle with the mob behind me while me energy regens back to 100% and then i can turn back and fight, but it's certainly not something i like doing.

the main issues for BMs taking 2+ mobs at the same time is the high rate at which we get stunned. this isn't just in solo mode, but on multi-pulls in dungeons as well. that's why i rely so much on my instant cast heals, and why i often have to use infuse health (very inefficient) to heal people because i can't depend on the longer cast of blood gift or the resists of vein if fighting mobs higher level than me.

numb sucks on a multi-pull. it's fine on single or double pulls or if you have a crowd controller, but you can't be casting numb on 4-5 mobs when they're pulled into your group. you sure as hell better not dare use your group heal. and after spamming a few different people with infuse as you get the situation under control, you're guaranteed to have a couple mobs beating on you, and you only have a 6 second immunity ability that doesn't even work half the time. all this talk about root is moot in a dungeon. you can't root control mobs on dungeon pulls. it has much too long of a cast time, too high a resist rate, and the melee range of mobs is very high in this game (not to mention most have ranged abilities).

are BMs broken? no. can we be the only healer for a dungeon group? yes. do we put our parties at high risk if we're the only healer in a group in a dungeon with lots of multi-pulls? yes. does our charm blow? yes. do we have terrible survivability on big multi-pulls? YES.

so ya, i can still play the class and there's things i like about it. on 1-2 pulls, this class is fine. once you start getting into situations where you know you're going to get aggro, the rate of survival plummets much more quickly for a BM than any other healer.

[Malivan]

i think because when it is said that someone can do something like that, it's sort of assumed that that's what should be done. those situations are probably more by accident or out of necessity to do a quest or grab a named, and not exactly efficient grinding mobs. i know i can tap sprint if a fight gets ugly and run around in a circle with the mob behind me while me energy regens back to 100% and then i can turn back and fight, but it's certainly not something i like doing.

the main issues for BMs taking 2+ mobs at the same time is the high rate at which we get stunned. this isn't just in solo mode, but on multi-pulls in dungeons as well. that's why i rely so much on my instant cast heals, and why i often have to use infuse health (very inefficient) to heal people because i can't depend on the longer cast of blood gift or the resists of vein if fighting mobs higher level than me.

numb sucks on a multi-pull. it's fine on single or double pulls or if you have a crowd controller, but you can't be casting numb on 4-5 mobs when they're pulled into your group. you sure as hell better not dare use your group heal. and after spamming a few different people with infuse as you get the situation under control, you're guaranteed to have a couple mobs beating on you, and you only have a 6 second immunity ability that doesn't even work half the time. all this talk about root is moot in a dungeon. you can't root control mobs on dungeon pulls. it has much too long of a cast time, too high a resist rate, and the melee range of mobs is very high in this game (not to mention most have ranged abilities).

are BMs broken? no. can we be the only healer for a dungeon group? yes. do we put our parties at high risk if we're the only healer in a group in a dungeon with lots of multi-pulls? yes. does our charm blow? yes. do we have terrible survivability on big multi-pulls? YES.

so ya, i can still play the class and there's things i like about it. on 1-2 pulls, this class is fine. once you start getting into situations where you know you're going to get aggro, the rate of survival plummets much more quickly for a BM than any other healer.

Well said. THe OP keeps saying that squishiness isn't a factor in groups, but the way I group, if I get aggro I am dead in 3 rounds if I can't manage to spam heal myself till my energy is gone.

They should give us a reverce blood pact that lets 1 person take a significant portion of our damage. OR, maybe the renewing symbiote I just got at level 30 more fruitful than a meager 20 hp for 20 end HoT.

[Racmoor]

Well said. THe OP keeps saying that squishiness isn't a factor in groups, but the way I group, if I get aggro I am dead in 3 rounds if I can't manage to spam heal myself till my energy is gone.

They should give us a reverce blood pact that lets 1 person take a significant portion of our damage. OR, maybe the renewing symbiote I just got at level 30 more fruitful than a meager 20 hp for 20 end HoT.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm somewhat concerned that the team that built the Bloodmage didn't learn from the past. Don't get me wrong, I love the bloodmage. However, Brad...he built EQ 1. In that game there were 3 healers and heal agro is acting almost the same in this game as in that one. The one healer that lacked surviveability in that game was the druid. Mostly because he wore leather and had no "get out of jail" free cards. The cleric had his little bubble and the shaman had slow.

Now...take this into this game and make a healer that uses cloth. Now give him no free get out of jail cards (Life husk isn't. A spell that lasts for 6 secs and doesn't stop stuns or incoming spell dmg? Puhlease). A tank has 6 secs to target the 2 mobs beating on the mage and get agro? I just don't think so.

The bloodmage has to have a way to survie more than a few seconds when they get agro. Can't be done any other way.

Racmoor
Tobi 19 BMG

[furbal]

I sat there for hours thinking what do blood mages get that other healing classes don't ,some people say dps but i ran dps parsers and our dps is equal to other healing classes the reason it looks to be more is due to our slow cast times and larger hits.

Other healing classes have much faster attacks and small damage giving the illusion that we are doing more then theres the huge balance problem survivability we are in cloth with lowest evasion of all classes.

How to fix this problem without making us over powered, i though about this for hours and thought of something like this.

Blood Golem:

Creates a flesh golem using parts collected from bodies the golem does very little damage but taunts well and tanks decent.

ability: due to its mass its attacks can stun an opponent.

Now if the devs want us to stay in cloth this is the only way i could think of without becoming overpowered.

It would also be of some help in PvP and level the survivability in PvE.

I have seen clerics solo 6, 2 dots of equal level at once blood mages have no chance of doing this in cloth.

[Deicide]

To the OP:

I'm currently playing a level 19 Bloodmage, a level 15 disc and a level 10 shaman. I haven't tried cleric yet.

IMHO what warrants the bloodmage squishiness is shear DPS. Yeah, the disc and shaman can have some lucky chains that get some good DPS out, but the bloodmage is constantly high dps (for a healer). It's nowhere near as insane as pure DPS classes, but it's super high compared to disc and shaman that I can tell you.

I must say that cloth is pretty weak in this game though. Medium armor makes a big big difference. I wish medium was a bit less effective and cloth a bit more, but then again, it makes playing a squishy just more challenging :)

Just for the record, I've hit a 1855 crit last night at level 18... My previous record was 1010 at level 12 or so. I'm getting 900+ crits on a regular basis. I can mow down a 3 doter 2-3 levels above me.

[treyalsup]

Blood Golem:

Creates a flesh golem using parts collected from bodies the golem does very little damage but taunts well and tanks decent.




I think its good to try to come up with fixes for the bloodmage, but they need imo to be pretty small tweaks that don't radically change the class.

I personally will never play a pet class again, so I would be upset if the "balancing" of a BMG came down to adding a pet.

As it is, a pet would make us better soloers than we already are and would not add to survivability if we pull aggro in a group situation, so I think this suggestion is off base.

From my perspective I can deal with our squishyness in PvE- I'd like it if it were better but I can deal with it- Maybe I just have a good group. Its our squishyness in PvP where aggro doesn't mean anything that I care about.

[Paleghost]

agreed. I really don't want a pet.

[furbal]

Only other thing i could think of is make our shield spell absorb x% of all incoming damage and add it to our shield spell.
or
A shielding spell like priests get in WoW a rune type spell at lvl 10.
or
A spell the ties you with target through veins allowing you to tap life every few seconds self only make a bond with target using union of blood instead of a dot ,a life tap every few seconds self only.

[Jeters]

BTW, I brought up the pet thing during revamp discussions, and it's not going to happen. Its a good idea but one thats already been discussed and decided against internally.

[Vinen]

I have no issues with Blood Mage being as squishy as we are. We have our get out of jail free for 6 seconds spell. I've had 0 issues being the only healer in a group doing dungeons 1-33 (I group with a Druid too... I guess they get heals!). When shit hits the fan learn to play.

Yeah, and please no pet.

[shermhead]

ewww a bloodmage.. squish it

[flyingpenguin]

I have no issues with Blood Mage being as squishy as we are. We have our get out of jail free for 6 seconds spell. I've had 0 issues being the only healer in a group doing dungeons 1-33 (I group with a Druid too... I guess they get heals!). When shit hits the fan learn to play.

Yeah, and please no pet.

I agree, no pet, but to say that we are not at a disadvantage against other classes is just putting your head in the sand.

Can we get passed the disadvantage? Yes, good players can, but why should we have to?

Simply put, blood mages are not equal to their other healer counterparts. To the poster who said that we have a DPS advantage, I agree that we throw down bigger numbers in an attack, but we are so interruptible that a spell that takes 2 secs to cast actually takes 4 to get off.

Again, I am all for the class being "more complex" so as not to be in "easy mode" (whatever that means), but more complex does not mean weaker.


Any of the other healing classes run out of energy solo they can melee we get to???? die..........


Combine the quote above with the fact that we have no mitigation and that just about sums it up...

[Sturmlied]

Give us a pet and we are just healing necros.

No thanks.

What about a symbiont that we can only use on us and that heals us for a HUGE amount in the moment we die? But the Symbiont is unique, so we can have only one in our inventory and he needs one of every organ + 10 vials of blood to create. =)

[Greaci]

On vpplayers says my highest ability hit was 2867. At lvl 19. I pretty sure I had some int buffs from other classes. I did get a 2020crit hit at lvl 16 solo. But I blow through my energy if I am focusing on damage. Blood feast in my own opinion is great. I us it all the time in teams. When the main tank is getting hit. It heals me and I us MT as often as I can to keep up my energy. But if agg bounces around I lose way to much energy. I usually dont play healing classes but I do enjoy playing BM.

[Vinen]

I agree, no pet, but to say that we are not at a disadvantage against other classes is just putting your head in the sand.

Can we get passed the disadvantage? Yes, good players can, but why should we have to?

Simply put, blood mages are not equal to their other healer counterparts. To the poster who said that we have a DPS advantage, I agree that we throw down bigger numbers in an attack, but we are so interruptible that a spell that takes 2 secs to cast actually takes 4 to get off.

Again, I am all for the class being "more complex" so as not to be in "easy mode" (whatever that means), but more complex does not mean weaker.



Combine the quote above with the fact that we have no mitigation and that just about sums it up...

I guess I just live behind clouded glasses because I group with a Bard every night... but I can easily outheal and outdamage many classes through the use of Entwining Vein. Love exploiting weaknesses.

I rarely, if ever have MP issues.

[flyingpenguin]

I guess I just live behind clouded glasses because I group with a Bard every night... but I can easily outheal and outdamage many classes through the use of Entwining Vein. Love exploiting weaknesses.

I rarely, if ever have MP issues.

Bards are buff machines, so it makes sense that you wouldn't have issues. But what do you do if all the mobs come after you? Even with the bard there, your very squishy.

I group with a Psi regularly and with him, I am a healing and damaging machine because of that sweet wisdom and int buff.

However, this is still working around the issue. When buffed and around complimentary play styles we seem to be uber.

But just think of the other healing classes that aren't inherently nerfed and think how studly they are?

We need something...better life husk...slows...something to make up for our cloth.

[flyingpenguin]

Here are some suggestions for fixing our squishiness.

1. New spell line...Crimson Ice...basically a quick casting root that freezes (i.e. freezes the blood in their veins) the mob in place for X seconds or until they are hit.

2. Make Life Husk last for 10 seconds and protect against all damage and give us a boost to our energy regeneration. If we attack, the effect ends.

3. Line of spells that harvests our endurance for energy

4. Concentration spell that makes our spells uninterruptable for X seconds

These suggestions basically give us a root (or you could make Crimson Ice simply a snare) to handle adds...(1)

Helps our mitigation issues by giving us an "OH SH@#$" spell (2)

Helps gives us some sort of option when we are oom (3)

Allows us to be effective when we are getting pounded on (4)

Just some ideas...

[DuckOfDeath]

Hmmm I hope you realize that the Bloodmage is basically a hybrid between a nuker and a healer. If you didnt think that would come with some of the same armor restrictions that a nuker would come with you were deluding yourself. You want more damage mitigation then pick a class that was designed that way. Dont pick a DPS/healer hybrid and complain it doesnt have enough damage mitigation to top it all off. Between being able to do massive DPS, root mobs, charm mobs, heal ourselves, buff our AC, and become untouchable for 6 seconds I think we have more than enough to solo that we dont need the same armor damage mitigation as some of the other classes. I mean I have yet to have a problem soloing anything that I have encountered that was of a reasonable level and dot difficulty. Being more armored will just be a little much IMHO.

[treyalsup]

Hmmm I hope you realize that the Bloodmage is basically a hybrid between a nuker and a healer. If you didnt think that would come with some of the same armor restrictions that a nuker would come with you were deluding yourself. You want more damage mitigation then pick a class that was designed that way. Dont pick a DPS/healer hybrid and complain it doesnt have enough damage mitigation to top it all off. Between being able to do massive DPS, root mobs, charm mobs, heal ourselves, buff our AC, and become untouchable for 6 seconds I think we have more than enough to solo that we dont need the same armor damage mitigation as some of the other classes. I mean I have yet to have a problem soloing anything that I have encountered that was of a reasonable level and dot difficulty. Being more armored will just be a little much IMHO.

I think the issue is actually that we kinda got the worst of both worlds- yes we are as squishy as a sorc or other cloth user but actually we dont get many of the tools they use to increase survivability.

And I think your description of massive DPS is a bit misleading.

And very few folks are asking for better armor, just better utility- a few more tools.

[Deicide]

To the poster who said that we have a DPS advantage, I agree that we throw down bigger numbers in an attack, but we are so interruptible that a spell that takes 2 secs to cast actually takes 4 to get off.


Even then... My bloodmage had at least twice the DPS my Disc has at the same level. I'm not talking numbers, I'm talking time it takes to mow down a mob. I fought lots of 3 dot with both, the same ones too since they're both in Qalia, and the bloodmage has way more DPS... And yes that's soloing with all the interruption. My disc is better equiped than my bloodmage was at the same level too and yes weapon skills maxed, using any mix of hand weapons be it bare, claws, handwraps or knuckles.

I'm playing the bloodmage over the disc right now cause I feel like the disc takes too long to kill stuff.

[Racmoor]

To the Duck of Death. I don't think you read through most of the posts here. You specifically said you have no problem soloing most of the mobs, but yet most of the posts here aren't talking about soloing. They're talking about surviving a beat down from 1 or more 4dots during a dungeon run. Through agro that we get from heals. The same heals that we had to go to because of the resists on our lifetap heals.

Now...what most people are asking for is surviveability in this scenario. A few of the other classes not only have better armor, but also better tools at surviving those moments of agro. Life Husk is inadequate. It doesn't stop spell dmg or stuns and it's duration is very short.

I personally was thinking of a spell that makes us invulnerable for a duration to everything, but drops the minute we do anything offensive. I just want some time to allow the tank to agro from me without building more agro through healing myself the entire time he's taunting. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing the tank taunt for his life, but knowing I have to heal myself to survive longer for him to taunt, thus increasing my agro...over and over until either I die or the mob dies. And no....i can't stand there and take it...I'm wearing cloth remember? Heal-Tanking FTW!

Tobi
19 Bmg

[DuckOfDeath]

I think the issue is actually that we kinda got the worst of both worlds- yes we are as squishy as a sorc or other cloth user but actually we dont get many of the tools they use to increase survivability.

And I think your description of massive DPS is a bit misleading.

And very few folks are asking for better armor, just better utility- a few more tools.

We are a hybrid. Thus less CC tools but we get healing. A root and a charm and healing is still pretty good.

Yeah massive DPS is relative. Not massive compared to true nukers but still much higher than the other healer classes.

Well when people talk about not being as squishy it really just comes down to AC. The tools thing I already mentioned that we are a hybrid and have healing in place of the other CC tools we dont get but we still have 2 CC tools. You really cant expect to have all the CC tools and healing.

[Seiryu]

honestly at later levels when seraks mantle gets better you will have just as much ac as clerics as long as you have good gear. i think our main problem at the moment is it is almost imposisble to find high hp / ac / const cloth let alone anything with healing focus. i think leveling to 40 i have seen 1 piece of cloth with healing focus. We are a very Hp dependant class i hope that they add more variation to the armor that we have to choose from in the future im tired of just getting int and spell damage focus.

[Erilyn]

Ive said this in the other thread and ill say it again here. As it is now, clerics and shammies have a TON more buffs than we do. We have a self only buff, 3 ally buffs, 1 int/wis buff at 26 and our rune at 46(?). Our lack of buffs puts us at a disadvantage over those 2 healing classes. (i cant speak for disciple as I dont play one) Yes we get symbiotes but we can only use ONE at a time.

Also, cleric heals are a lot more mana efficient than ours. Their mana costs are not as high as ours. The cleric I group with can literally spam their big insta heal forever and never run out of mana. I grouped with a shammie the other day in the Tomb of Lord Tsang, same level as me and he had no problems with being main healer, doing dmg and debuffing while still being almost full mana during the fights. I was running out mana very quickly and spamming MT as often as possible.

Add that to our cloth fashion and you get a very unbalanced healing class. Can we do dps better than the other 3? That remains to be seen. As another poster posted in the other BM thread at the top, a weapon quest line in game is giving these other classes equal to or better dps than us. So if this is happening, what is our advantage again?

Dont get me wrong, I love the whole concept of a Blood Mage. I have put in a lot of time and effort into mine and I love the micromanaging aspect of her. But if slightly higher DPS is all we get for our many DISadvantages, Im not sure they will be a very viable class. I have an easier time getting groups with my other toons than I do my BM. As does my cleric friend. Clerics/Shammy = Gods in VG.

[Racmoor]

We are a hybrid. Thus less CC tools but we get healing. A root and a charm and healing is still pretty good.

Yeah massive DPS is relative. Not massive compared to true nukers but still much higher than the other healer classes.

Well when people talk about not being as squishy it really just comes down to AC. The tools thing I already mentioned that we are a hybrid and have healing in place of the other CC tools we dont get but we still have 2 CC tools. You really cant expect to have all the CC tools and healing.

When people start throwing around the word Hybrid it becomes a reason/justification that people somehow think they shouldn't have the tools to do their job. And the job in this case is to heal. Now. Say anything you want, but the BMG is not supposed to be the stepchild of the healing community. As such, you have to give them the tools to survive in a dungeon crawl upon healing agro since all the other healers have these tools whatever form they may take.

I don't see how you can list the charm as a means of surviving agro. The only thing that is certain when a charm breaks is that I will have said agro and I will have a lot of it. Life Husk does not do the job. And surely you're not proposing that root works as a viable means of getting away from mobs encountered in a crawl? Have you tried to root anything above 3 dots?

A bloodmage can solo fairly well. I don't care if that gets boosted. I want to survive agro when in a dungeon.

Tobi
19 BMG

[DuckOfDeath]

To the Duck of Death. I don't think you read through most of the posts here. You specifically said you have no problem soloing most of the mobs, but yet most of the posts here aren't talking about soloing. They're talking about surviving a beat down from 1 or more 4dots during a dungeon run. Through agro that we get from heals. The same heals that we had to go to because of the resists on our lifetap heals.

Now...what most people are asking for is surviveability in this scenario. A few of the other classes not only have better armor, but also better tools at surviving those moments of agro. Life Husk is inadequate. It doesn't stop spell dmg or stuns and it's duration is very short.

I personally was thinking of a spell that makes us invulnerable for a duration to everything, but drops the minute we do anything offensive. I just want some time to allow the tank to agro from me without building more agro through healing myself the entire time he's taunting. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing the tank taunt for his life, but knowing I have to heal myself to survive longer for him to taunt, thus increasing my agro...over and over until either I die or the mob dies. And no....i can't stand there and take it...I'm wearing cloth remember? Heal-Tanking FTW!

Tobi
19 Bmg

Thats funny maybe we are reading different threads. I am pretty sure I read the entire thread and the concensus is that we need more mitigation because we are so squishy solo even though we are already kicking butt in groups.

As far as getting aggro in group and needing a tool to drop aggro I have yet to come across that problem so I cant really comment on the need for it or not. I know my disciple has one but I havent ever really had to use his either.

I cant see that 6 seconds is not enough time for your tank to draw aggro off of you. I mean exactly how much more healing are you doing than he is doing damage? And for those 6 seconds you shouldnt need to be spam healing yourself.

[Deicide]

For what it's worth. no aggro problems in group here either at level 19 BM. I don't see what the problem is with heal costs and whatnot either. If I'm mainhealing a group, I can pretty much spam heals indefinitely without ever running out of mana if I'm careful.

Make sure you map your lower cost spells for group healing... If you use the big guns all the time, no wonder you're running out of mana. The only time my mana will do down is when non-plate get unwanted aggro, or when AoE is taking place, or when I'm trying to DPS and heal at the same time.

Really, if anything the BM is slightly overpowered.

[flyingpenguin]

We are a hybrid. Thus less CC tools but we get healing. A root and a charm and healing is still pretty good.

Yeah massive DPS is relative. Not massive compared to true nukers but still much higher than the other healer classes.

Well when people talk about not being as squishy it really just comes down to AC. The tools thing I already mentioned that we are a hybrid and have healing in place of the other CC tools we dont get but we still have 2 CC tools. You really cant expect to have all the CC tools and healing.

We are not a hybrid...we are a healing class. Using your logic, then unless you are a healbot then you are a hybrid. Then all the healers are hybrids...but they aren't and we aren't. We are healers that just heal in different ways.

Root...blows...simple as that. Even solo that thing gets resisted enough to make it a hail mary.

And I don't believe that when compared, over time, to any of the other healers that we are gonna be head and shoulders above in terms of DPS (unless you put us in a vacuum that doesn't have things beating us down).

I am simply asking for 2 things...some form of mitigation, and some way to keep doing my job when I am out of mana. No other healing class has either of these issues.

[hawnz]

Thats funny maybe we are reading different threads. I am pretty sure I read the entire thread and the concensus is that we need more mitigation because we are so squishy solo even though we are already kicking butt in groups.

As far as getting aggro in group and needing a tool to drop aggro I have yet to come across that problem so I cant really comment on the need for it or not. I know my disciple has one but I havent ever really had to use his either.

I cant see that 6 seconds is not enough time for your tank to draw aggro off of you. I mean exactly how much more healing are you doing than he is doing damage? And for those 6 seconds you shouldnt need to be spam healing yourself.

i think you need to go back and reread. seriously. just about every time survivability is mentioned in this thread, it's in regards to grouping/multi-pulls/aggro from high level multi-dots.

[flyingpenguin]

i think you need to go back and reread. seriously. just about every time survivability is mentioned in this thread, it's in regards to grouping/multi-pulls/aggro from high level multi-dots.

You are both right. In the OP I started the thread off talking about soloability...at some point it derailed and we started talking about grouping.

The same fact goes either way when it comes to adds...solo or group, BMGs don't have a whole lotta recourse.

[Vinen]

Ive said this in the other thread and ill say it again here. As it is now, clerics and shammies have a TON more buffs than we do. We have a self only buff, 3 ally buffs, 1 int/wis buff at 26 and our rune at 46(?). Our lack of buffs puts us at a disadvantage over those 2 healing classes. (i cant speak for disciple as I dont play one) Yes we get symbiotes but we can only use ONE at a time.

Also, cleric heals are a lot more mana efficient than ours. Their mana costs are not as high as ours. The cleric I group with can literally spam their big insta heal forever and never run out of mana. I grouped with a shammie the other day in the Tomb of Lord Tsang, same level as me and he had no problems with being main healer, doing dmg and debuffing while still being almost full mana during the fights. I was running out mana very quickly and spamming MT as often as possible.

Add that to our cloth fashion and you get a very unbalanced healing class. Can we do dps better than the other 3? That remains to be seen. As another poster posted in the other BM thread at the top, a weapon quest line in game is giving these other classes equal to or better dps than us. So if this is happening, what is our advantage again?

Dont get me wrong, I love the whole concept of a Blood Mage. I have put in a lot of time and effort into mine and I love the micromanaging aspect of her. But if slightly higher DPS is all we get for our many DISadvantages, Im not sure they will be a very viable class. I have an easier time getting groups with my other toons than I do my BM. As does my cleric friend. Clerics/Shammy = Gods in VG.

I have 330 Damage Focus at level 33 right now. When grouped with a bard or someone else who can cause Vulnerable my E. Veins hit in the 700-900 area for 160 energy. Also, E. Veins do not appear to generate hate from anything but the monster being delt damage... why are you people complaing. I am about to call nerf on my class after the past few nights of ownage.

[Erilyn]

I have 330 Damage Focus at level 33 right now. When grouped with a bard or someone else who can cause Vulnerable my E. Veins hit in the 700-900 area for 160 energy. Also, E. Veins do not appear to generate hate from anything but the monster being delt damage... why are you people complaing. I am about to call nerf on my class after the past few nights of ownage.


Well Im really glad you have a 330 damage focus. At level 21 mine is only 113 and my EV hits for nothing near that. Not to mention, while in dungeons fighting 4 dots, if it isnt resisted then the mob has some serious AC because it does significantly less than it is supposed to.

Take Chrysol mines for example. Them suits on the bottom have some serious AC. My EV was only hitting for a whopping 79 at its highest. Not an effective heal so I have to use my direct heals which are SLOW and majorly mana consuming.

So while you may beable to use EV as an effective form of healing, it is not viable in all dungeons on all occasions.

[flyingpenguin]

I have 330 Damage Focus at level 33 right now. When grouped with a bard or someone else who can cause Vulnerable my E. Veins hit in the 700-900 area for 160 energy. Also, E. Veins do not appear to generate hate from anything but the monster being delt damage... why are you people complaing. I am about to call nerf on my class after the past few nights of ownage.

Step away from the bard and it won't be quite so "ownage" I think...

What do you think a shaman would do in your situation? I believe they would feel uber as well...

Besides...the point isn't the damage we cause in a protected situation (I own in situations where I am untouched)...its the situations where the mobs are coming fast and untethered on our paper butts. We have no valid options while every other healer class does.

[Gwoben]

Take Chrysol mines for example. Them suits on the bottom have some serious AC. My EV was only hitting for a whopping 79 at its highest. Not an effective heal so I have to use my direct heals which are SLOW and majorly mana consuming.


These "suits" don't have some serious AC, they have 75% damage reduction buff on them. When you move your mouse over it, it says it can be dispelled with the force of pure sapphrol or something like that, but I haven't found the way to do it.

[Jeters]

heh, since hitting 30 (well actually since lvl 28) I've been critting/hitting out the wazoo. Go bug your local crafters guys, they make a +160 Arcane/Physical spell damage focus. It's insane how much damage I do. (then I look over at my ranger boyfriend and feel inadequate again in terms of damage, haha)

[flyingpenguin]

heh, since hitting 30 (well actually since lvl 28) I've been critting/hitting out the wazoo. Go bug your local crafters guys, they make a +160 Arcane/Physical spell damage focus. It's insane how much damage I do. (then I look over at my ranger boyfriend and feel inadequate again in terms of damage, haha)

Well I just learned something new...;)

[Kylrath]

Put me in the camp of Bloodmages are freaking awesome (level 22 here).

I feel the BMG is a fun and effective class. A couple key points when comparing us to the other healer classes:

1. Resists on lifetap healing must be addressed. I'm fine with the 'squishiness' that is being complained about in this thread, because with skill I normally have tools to avoid aggro. However as its been pointed out, a good group is going to be pulling higher level mobs which rockets our lifetap resist rate up...which forces reliance on direct heals...which leads to aggro issues...which in the BMG case leads to death.

2. I feel BMG are actually well balanced, but Clerics are OP. Stop comparing BMG to clerics and saying BMG are gimp...its the freaking Clerics that are OP and need to be *tuned* just like BMG was before release and Disciple was post release.

Real Example - Hilsbury Dungon - We pull the room with the hidden door w/quest giver. As anyone that has been here knows this is a pull that involves at least 8 mobs.

Freaking cleric bomb-heals from the start and gets aggro from basically 7 of the mobs then sits there and heal-tanks for pretty much the fight duration.

Don't hate on BMG because we can't do this...the Cleric class needs a major nerf.

[furbal]

classes:
However as its been pointed out, a good group is going to be pulling higher level mobs which rockets our lifetap resist rate up...which forces reliance on direct heals...which leads to aggro issues...which in the BMG case leads to death.



Yes and in raids we will pretty much be useless compared to other classes due to massive resists cutting our effectiveness in group, thus we start tossing out direct heals and WHAM your dead.

our invulnerability just don't cut it.

But nobody is saying we can't do damage we have zero damage mitigation in cloth once you catch agro on dungeon pulls your dead, groups go for 3-4 lvl higher so thats a big problem.

Maybe we need a debuff? tied with blood union 2% debuff+damage per.

Maybe all we need is a good agro reducing ability starting at 10 something that will transfer hate to defensive target.

[Jeters]

don't hate, clerics get healer-tanking as exchange for being dead boring to play =p

/duck

[Malivan]

heh, since hitting 30 (well actually since lvl 28) I've been critting/hitting out the wazoo. Go bug your local crafters guys, they make a +160 Arcane/Physical spell damage focus. It's insane how much damage I do. (then I look over at my ranger boyfriend and feel inadequate again in terms of damage, haha)

Yeah, I'm 31 now, and I have been suprised when I don't crit, they are that common. Plus, the Ageless staff has like 110 spell damage focus. Its a mean beast in the hands of a blood mage.

[Koba]

Go bug your local crafters guys, they make a +160 Arcane/Physical spell damage focus. It's insane how much damage I do.

I have seen them as high as +220, not sure how high they can make them.

[Jeters]

I am limited by the levelling curve of my pet crafter =( but the ones I currently have are all I need to max out for nukes/lifetaps atm

[Koba]

For some time now I have had Physical and Arcane maxed. Now I am working on maxing healing also but not sure I will be able to pull that one off.

[jelloskins]

Hello again, so I have been reading these forums here about blood mages for a while, and I have not heard a single answer to this question:

What do Blood Mages get that makes up for the fact that we are so dagum squishy?

For groups squishiness isn't much of a factor...I am mainly talking about solo play (which should be viable for all classes).

In comparison:

Clerics heal as well as we do, they wear plate, and their dps is based on endurance rather than melee so they don't have the issue of "running out".

Disciples...same thing (except for plate)...heck even their heals are partially endurance based so they are friggen energizer bunnies.

Dunno much about shamans except they kite like mofos.

Blood Mages...wear cloth...use only mana attacks and heals...and our most powerful heals can't even be cast on ourselves.

Now...I know...the hardcore says that they like the "difficulty" of the bmg, and if you want to play on "ez" mode, then roll a cleric, but that isn't the point here.

My point is, we (blood mages) are seriously weakened because we are the only healing class that wears cloth. Furthermore, unlike other cloth wearers we don't have the ability to kite, or snare for soloability.

So what do we get to make up for this big weakness? Anything?

If the class is played well, the mana pool is huge. Converting health to mana, then mana back to health, with high damage is rewarding. It seems we can go a long time this way. It took me a few tries of giving up on this class to realize the power though.

[Malivan]

I am limited by the levelling curve of my pet crafter =( but the ones I currently have are all I need to max out for nukes/lifetaps atm

What are the maxes, btw?

[DuckOfDeath]

We are not a hybrid...we are a healing class. Using your logic, then unless you are a healbot then you are a hybrid. Then all the healers are hybrids...but they aren't and we aren't. We are healers that just heal in different ways.

Actually yes I consider all the healing classes in the game to be more or less hybrids. The cleric is a hybrid tank/healer, the disciple is a hybrid monk/healer, the bloodmage is a hybrid caster/healer, and the shaman can be basically any depending on his totem. If you really look at the healing classes that is exactly what they are. They have some of the abilities of other classes but have traded some for some healing. So yeah if you look at your last sentence we are healers that just heal in different ways and the bloodmage way is as more of a caster squishy. If you wanted damage mitigation then you should play a cleric or to a lesser degree a disciple. I mean really what are you asking for here? Do you want all the healers to have all the same abilities but with just different names? You know I really hate threads that talk about balance between classes because basically that is what it comes down to. People whine because some other class has abilities they want in their class all in the name of balance. In the end all the classes are just the same thing with different names.

Root...blows...simple as that. Even solo that thing gets resisted enough to make it a hail mary.

Really? Maybe you should try tackling things more your level and with less dots. This is another pet peeve of mine. People brag about how their class can solo a lvl+2 3-4 dot mob and now everyone thinks their class should be able to do the same thing or whine for that class to get nerfed. Why not go after the things more your level and/or lesser difficulty? Maybe it is to little xp or doesnt have the uber loot you want. Get over it. I have at most a 10% resist rate when I cast my root. Seems fine to me.

And I don't believe that when compared, over time, to any of the other healers that we are gonna be head and shoulders above in terms of DPS (unless you put us in a vacuum that doesn't have things beating us down).

Believe what you want. I started with a disciple as my first character. Now I play a bloodmage and easily kill things faster. And this is solo so that means I am doing my own tanking. It really doesnt matter that the disciple attacks dont get interrupted like spells do because they just do so little damage compared to a bloodmage it isnt even funny.

I am simply asking for 2 things...some form of mitigation, and some way to keep doing my job when I am out of mana. No other healing class has either of these issues.

You have mitigation but I guess its not enough to tackle the high level mobs that resist your spells to much for your liking. You want more mitigation then try the other healing class that has more mitigation but less offense. I mean really if you are going to give the bloodmage the same mitigation as the cleric why would anyone play a cleric when they can have the same mitigation and nuke. Like I said balance blows and just because the other classes have something doesnt mean every class should have it. The disciples dont have a powerful ranged attack like the bloodmage maybe you should go petition for them to get one.

You also have ways of transfering endurance into health and health into energy (maybe not yet but you will). So if you are out of energy you can get more in a manner that is consistent with the design of the class. It doesnt make sense to just let you use endurance directly through attacks like the other classes since it is a squishy class and not a melee class.

[Eldahir]

I find it sort of funny how many people splurt puddles of tears because clerics have plate armor which is so UBER/GODLY/blahblah and they get at least four million percent mitigation because of it. Plate is a minor factor in cleric survivability imo. I'm 26 and wear level 21-32ish plate armors with one medium piece (helmet) tossed in and a shield of course. My melee mitigation with resolution IV is 21.8%. Pretty far from the 50%'s tanks had in WoW, huh?

For the hells of it, I asked what my lvl 26 guildie sorcy had without any outside help, he said his melee mitigation was bit under 9%. Now here's a new flash: that extra 13% can hardly be defined as godly, etc.

Most cleric survivability comes from having our block rate (my lvl 26 shield has 20% block rate vs lvl 26, and add to that the base %'s and such... 25%ish?) and our self rune for 2-4 hits (2 hits at 26). Between those two I have enough damage prevention to stay standing.

Even if blood mages had plate, you'd still go down like bitch slapped halflings when getting adds on you. Healer with plate != defensive fighter in plate.

Although, in my opinion blood mages shouldn't even have survivability as healer/nukers. Their damage should maybe equal to maybe 60% of sorcs damage, with same survivability. If they get too much dps added then they are just gonna be a dps class that heals, kinda nullifies the purpose of other dps classes. And if they get survivability... what the hell, roll another class if you want that. There are four healers to choose from, 6 if you count pally and druid. If your idea was rolling a dps class with minor heals, I can heartily recommend druid, started a druid alt a while back myself. The HoT is a very lovely addition to a group or solo.

[flyingpenguin]

Maybe you should try tackling things more your level and with less dots. This is another pet peeve of mine. People brag about how their class can solo a lvl+2 3-4 dot mob and now everyone thinks their class should be able to do the same thing or whine for that class to get nerfed. Why not go after the things more your level and/or lesser difficulty? Maybe it is to little xp or doesnt have the uber loot you want. Get over it. I have at most a 10% resist rate when I cast my root. Seems fine to me.

So...we should only go after blue 2 dots? I don't know about you, but in a dungeon I can't really stay away from 3 and 4 dots...are clerics the only healers allowed in dungeons?

I don't want to wear plate, and I don't want to play like a cleric. What I want is something that can help when the tables turn against the group and the mobs jump on me.

Right now there isn't anything I can do but scream "GET 'EM OFF ME" and then die.

If we are the "caster/hybrid" then we should have similar tools as other casters to mitigate mobs jumping on top of us. They all have slows, quick casting roots, and other cc's to keep them standing...we have 1 root that takes about 6 years to cast and is resisted by just about everything that isn't the color of a smurf.

I think I have been clear what I want in several of my posts, but let me spell it out again.

1. Some form of mitigation...not armor...just some way to handle mobs interupting all of our spells.
2. Some way to keep going when we are out of mana...every other healer can keep fighting when they are oom...we just die.

If you want specific suggestions, please see my other posts...

[Jeters]

..do you not use life husk at all? or do you just not find it effective?

If I'm getting beat on I can usually pop life-husk with a nice "HEPL SOMETHING KILLING MEH" message and survive until the tank can pull it off. Usually I just try not to put myself in that situation =p

....or I die in two hits, but thats a whole other story.


EDIT: on this issue....Seraks Mantle is supposed to bring us up effectively to medium armor. I think it's only giving like half of what it's supposed to.

[Kylrath]

[QUOTE=Jeters;119253]..do you not use life husk at all? or do you just not find it effective?QUOTE]

Lifehusk is successful at doing exactly what it was designed to do, its an excellent tool in our chest.

Is it a get out of jail free card? No, absolutely not.

However our PRIMARY 'survival' technique is the PRACTICALLY NON-EXISTANT AGGRO generation our Lifetap Heals provide.

Bloodmages that refuse to emphasize the lifetap heals as the primary method of play (ie they try to play like clerics) are going to remain horribly disappointed in the performance of the class.

These *oh noes I'm squishy* whiners continue to compare us against the broken cleric class instead of against the overall game balance.

Fact: As part of the overall game design, is the Bloodmage able to fulfil his primary role of PRIMARY healer for a group? The answer is a resounding YES, as numerous Bloodmage players and our Class Lead has said multiple times.

Fact: As compared to the broken Cleric class, does the Bloodmage compare unfavorably? The answer is again YES, but the fix to this should not lie in changing the mechanics of the overwhelmingly well balanced Blodomage class, it instead should lie with the toning down of the effectiveness of the Cleric, to bring it in line with the Bloodmage, Disciple, and Shaman.

The only *major* mechanic change I would favor for the Bloodmage is a resist debuff being added to our UoB line.

[furbal]

Where i figure where the main imbalance for blood mages is the lack of utility for survival and no life husk is too short to be any use, every time i used it and had a macro say"get it off me" i died right after its duration.

Why should clerics get more and longer life saving utilities when they are in plate?.

Another thing we need a Hot at lvl 10 thats short casting, ever watch a cleric he tosses a hot that lasts the whole battle on himself while beating mob senseless, we can't cast our hot on ourself that lowers our survivability.

Even if they gave us a hot that i can cast on myself to stay alive long enough for tank to pull mobs off of me i would be happy.

Or switch union of blood over to lifetap hot+debuff 2% per that would be good enough for me.

2nd imbalance our endurance bar we don't get to use this for anything thus we can't fall back on it for dps,healing or anything else where all other healers have use for it.

So what can we use our endurance bar for that would balance us?, maybe a magic shield that absorbs damage as long as our endurance is not 0 that would sap endurance with each hit .

[Koba]

Sanguine Focus = 15% mitigation or did everyone forget that?

[Nexdei]

I think some people constantly try to heal in DPS stance, regardless of group setup and mob difficulty. :p

[Jeters]

You know, In beta I was totally in the anti-macro camp, thinking that stance switching added to the skill of the player and enjoyment of the class.

I've changed my tune. macros help sooo much in efficiency its crazy, I dont know what I was thinking! maybe I play later at night so I am more generally tired now =p

[Malivan]

Sanguine Focus = 15% mitigation or did everyone forget that?

15% mitigation is hardly meaningful, especially when it comes at the price of heals cast on us reduced by 50%.

[Dhaga]

Sanguine Focus also halves the amount that heals land on a Bloodmage for; including the amount healed from our lifetaps. It increases not reduces the change of the Bloodmage surviving if he takes aggro. Not complaining about the ability, it is essential to use if a large group of mobs is pulled as our lifetaps don't cut it in those circumstances.

Bloodmages should be more squishy that healers in armour, but a bit more short term survivability options in terms of spells, particularly given the huge rate of melee interrupts would be good. For example:

1. A general damage absorbing rune
2. Anything that helps prevent interrupts
3. A self-only life-tap over time (just enough to perform a minor patch up to give a quick acting BMG a chance to emergency heal the party member before having to help himself if he has aggro)
4. A self only healing shield - everytime a mob hits a BMG the BMG uses his only blood-spillage to heal himself; albeit it that the heal would need to be very minor

Being able to cast life-taps which automatically land on our defensive targets mobs would be great for our healing ability as well. Currently, in large pulls allot of mobs are killed before life-taps land meaning that the heal part of the life-tap also fails to land on our defensive target. This means that higher aggro direct heals often have to be used at the begining of fights.

I don't think that we should get snares, purely because I love the class distinctiveness in VG and giving everyone the same soloing tactics would be the first step in diluting that uniqueness.

[Koba]

You know, In beta I was totally in the anti-macro camp, thinking that stance switching added to the skill of the player and enjoyment of the class.

I've changed my tune. macros help sooo much in efficiency its crazy, I dont know what I was thinking! maybe I play later at night so I am more generally tired now =p


Speaking about macro's. I have had this debate several times now and was wondering if you could shed any light on it.

I use the G15 keyboard along with its great macro capability. I have a lot of people tell me using the macro function of the keyboard is against the EULA because it is an external macro program. Some people even say that using macro's was not intended for the game period (even what you can do in game).

My take is:
1) They have all these cool commands and you can even get the game to show them to you. So if they did not want you to use them then why did they put them in game.
2) Sigil supports the LCD on the G15 so that means they know what the keyboard can do. If they did not want people using the G15 why would they support a feature of it?

The only real advantage (other then 18 keys in a nice easy place to hit them) the G15 gives is the ability to put in a pause. Which I am surprised they don't allow you to do in game to begin with.

[Koba]

15% mitigation is hardly meaningful, especially when it comes at the price of heals cast on us reduced by 50%.


I know it is a bug and will get fixed soon but have you ever cast a heal on yourself when in SF? How about this, cast your little heal on yourself in unfocused, FoG, and SF. Tell me which one heals you for more. I will put 2 silver on it will healing you for more in SF. SF gives you all the advantages and none of the draw backs.

[Jeters]

I'm pretty sure the 50% healing was turned off at some point due to bug issues....was it never turned back on?


also, for the macro thing, why would they give us the capability and then not want us to use it? that makes no sense.

[Eldahir]

it instead should lie with the toning down of the effectiveness of the Cleric, to bring it in line with the Bloodmage, Disciple, and Shaman.

Could you elaborate a bit? So clerics should be "toned down" so we can only solo even or even higher level 4-dots like discs? Or who knows what bear shamans and such solo? Interesting view of "balancing" but you're entitled to it. My view on that subject is a whole lot more harsher. And it includes balancing other imbalanced classes too.

[jelloskins]

I just finished another round with my Blood Mage and I cannot see how people complain about how poor it is. I have really liked this class above all others. It is fun and if played right, can take on many things. I find that if I take on one mob at the same level (2-dot), that I can sometimes end the fight with more health/mana than when I started. It took me awhile to figure out how to survive....it took even longer to figure out how to play effectively.

Once I started playing using the following guidelines, I did MUCH better.

Use Mental Transmutation OFTEN!
Use Despoil often!
Keep your blood union high!
Switch Focus!
Use Infuse Health only in emergencies.

[Malivan]

Could you elaborate a bit? So clerics should be "toned down" so we can only solo even or even higher level 4-dots like discs? Or who knows what bear shamans and such solo? Interesting view of "balancing" but you're entitled to it. My view on that subject is a whole lot more harsher. And it includes balancing other imbalanced classes too.

You really need to mention levels when you say things like that. At my level (31) there is no way in hell my disc friends are soloing 4 dots. My cleric friends, however, are.

[Eldahir]

You really need to mention levels when you say things like that. At my level (31) there is no way in hell my disc friends are soloing 4 dots. My cleric friends, however, are.

As you wish.

How about high 30's? 35-36? As Sickpuppys recently censored thread at http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10795 showed. Luckily I have his post-nerf solo video still saved on my work puter. Fun thing to watch it is.

[Erilyn]

No class should beable to solo an even con 4 dot. 4 dots are supposed to be for trio/groups. Not solo. And I know BMGs certaintly cant. If one says they can, I wanna see it because I wont believe it otherwise.

The thing I think a lot of people are seeing and are having problems with is the fact that our heals cost a lot more than a clerics. Clerics also get a ton of buffs, we get 1 self, 3 ally and 2 more at much higher levels. Our energy conversion just plain sucks and as far as I know there isnt any talk of changing it. And BMGs get what? A little bit higher DPS? Even that is questionable.

I dont mind being squishy, its part of our class. What I do mind is LFG for hours when I see clerics/shammies being picked up immediately. They have better utility, survivability, and mana management. If you wanna spend 30 min soloing a 4dot, so be it. Ill be over yonder killing yellow 2 dots for more xp then what you will make off of that 4 dot. Just give me more utility and do something with MT!!

[Kiste]

No class should beable to solo an even con 4 dot. 4 dots are supposed to be for trio/groups. Not solo. And I know BMGs certaintly cant. If one says they can, I wanna see it because I wont believe it otherwise.
Yeah, that's complete nonesense. As a 28 BMG, even green 4dots utterly destroy me, unless it kite them with root, despoil and scarlet ritual, which usually results in multiple deaths per successful kill. And it takes a lot of time. About 25 second for 4 BU to build up, that yields 500-1000 damage depending on resists (not counting total resists). These things can off me in 4 hits so if root gets resisted twice in a row, I'm usually dead. And it takes a lot of space... any added aggro and you're dead, etc.

I kited a white 4dot spider once for shits and giggles. Died 5 or 6 times in the process of it and when I finally manage to grind it down, it took me, IIRC, about 20 minutes.

They have better utility, survivability, and mana management. If you wanna spend 30 min soloing a 4dot, so be it. Ill be over yonder killing yellow 2 dots for more xp then what you will make off of that 4 dot. Just give me more utility and do something with MT!!
That's sums it up.

I think Blood Feast and Sanguine Focus makes up for our crappy armor easily. What hurts is the lack of a shield or parry skill. My problem isn't really soloing, either. We're not the best soloers but we're doing ok. My problem is our grouping viability. If you're doing a tough dungeon, a BMG as the sole healer isn't an option because there is too little margin for error.

One sub-optimal pull where the BMG has to manadump one group member and you have a dead BMG. The solutions proposed by some people rarely work. Life Husk and root? Doesn't do jack against caster mobs and if root gets resisted, you're dead. Plus, it is extremely difficult to target the right mob and get off a root in a dungeon situation with the wonky, laggy targetting, especially of mobs are on top of each other. The only option is power-healing yourself, which depletes you mana and builds even more aggro. Then you pray that the tank somehow manages to get aggro off you or that someone reacts quickly enough to do some CC.

All this would be fine if the BMG offered some really genuine advantage to a group but I don't see it. Our heals are, for some reason, less efficient. It seems that our healing costs are balanced around the assumption that they're cast while in Sanguine Focus and have 5 BU built up, which kinda makes our stances a bit of a joke. Why have a healing stance to begin with if all it does is bring us up to the healer baseline?

Our DPS in grouping situations isn't that great either, we need our mana for heals. The option to heal with life taps makes up for that to a certain degree but you can pretty much forget about that when going against 4 and 5 dot mobs higher in level than you are due to resists. When it comes to healing, reliability is king and you can't risk life tapping when an unfortunate resist in the wrong moment gets someone killed.

And why the added logistics (BU and HP management) if it doesn't really buy us any advantages? Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that we're interesting to play but if it takes time to build up BU before we are efficient and if our spells costs HP to casts, we should do better than classes that can do it without the added logistics.

What I would like to see (and I don't think that would make us unbalanced):

- a "rune" type ability like the cleric one that absorbs 2-4 hits
- lower or no resists on our life taps, what point is there to a life-tap based healer if the life taps are too unreliable?
- Life Husk duration of 10s (get rid of the useless damage shield component in return)
- our big HOT should be castable on ourselves
- some added utility that narrows the gap to the amazing buffs shaman and clerics have to offer (Disciples need some love in that area, too, even more so than BMGs)
- better efficiency of our mana heals
- slight improvements to the dmg : heal ratio of EV, or at least more frequent spell upgrades
- Cyst cast time of 2s as this is our main means of contributing damage to the group (the damage and mana costs could be scaled accordingly to keep DPS in ceck)
- Ritual of Gelenia needs to be buffed up significantly

Right now, I'm still wondering what exactly we bring to the table in dungeon grouping situations compared to other healers in terms of:
- healing powress
- healing durability
- survivability (which directly translate into safety for the group)
- utility
- damage

I think we're currently falling short in several crucial areas without having any distinct advantages to make up for it and IMO it's fixable without changing the basic concept of the class or stuffing us into heavier armor.

[Shalindra]

- some added utility that narrows the gap to the amazing buffs shaman and clerics have to offer (Disciples need some love in that area, too, even more so than BMGs)



I chose to reply to this one only because it's the one thing that allways gets on my nervs and one that allways been brought up.


Do you still get these? (don't knowe since the update on spell-list rarely is up to date)

lvl 2 - Health Graft I - Group buff. Increases maximum hit points.
lvl 4 - Serak's Mantle I - Self only buff. Increases your armor class.
lvl 8 - Vitalize I - Group Buff. Which increases vitality.
lvl 14 - Mental Infusion I - Group Buff. Increases Intelligence and Wisdom.
lvl 16 - Regeneration 1 – Group buff. Increases the hit point regeneration effects of you and all your allies.
lvl 18 - Serak’s Augmentation I – Group buff. Increases constitution and physical resistance.

Lets compare them with Shaman

lvl 4 - Oracle’s Sight I - Buffs an ally increasing energy by 50 and lowering the cast time of all splells by 20%.
lvl 4 - Infusion I - Increases an ally’s max hit points by 90 and Armor Class (AC) by 27
lvl 8 - Spirit of Rakurr I (SoR) - Increases movement speed by 30% and increases mounted speed by 5%.
lvl 14 - Level 14 Boon of Boqobol - Single Target Underwater Breathing Buff. (will get a groupbuff of this one at lvl 30 I belive)
lvl 25 - Boon of Alcipus - Instills your ally with the ability to float like the hawk Alcipus.

After that shaman has patron buffs, I will take the rakurrs in this example since it is what I knowe.

lvl 18 - Rakuur’s Grace I - Increases your ally’s melee haste by 18% and their dexterity.
lvl 25 - Scent of the Blood - Pet and Shaman are buffed and are granted increased melee damage and reduced endurance costs.
lvl 30 - Speed of Rakurr 2 - Increases the speed of your ally by 50%.

- So you increase hp, vit, wis, int, hp regen, con and physical resistance and Levitate, regen, DS, and Melee Haste - symbiotes (thanks Jeters)
- I increase energy, hp, ac, movement speed, melee haste and dex. And I get to decrease the cast time of spells, make ppl breath under water and levitate.
Do you really have that much to envy?

We are supposed to be a complement to eachother, not to be the same.


I just don't get it. We are diffrent, we offer diffrent things and offcourse this will meen that other classes have stuff that we don't. But on the other hand we will allways have stuff other classes don't.

Why not just roll the class you want and then be happy with your choise, you will never ever get it all. Personally I think every healing class will be perfect for those who wants to play it. Will be and not is, since there is to many things broken or bugged with all healing classes at the moment.

[Jeters]

I chose to reply to this one only because it's the one thing that allways gets on my nervs and one that allways been brought up.


Do you still get these? (don't knowe since the update on spell-list rarely is up to date)

lvl 2 - Health Graft I - Group buff. Increases maximum hit points.
lvl 4 - Serak's Mantle I - Self only buff. Increases your armor class.
lvl 8 - Vitalize I - Group Buff. Which increases vitality.
lvl 14 - Mental Infusion I - Group Buff. Increases Intelligence and Wisdom.
lvl 16 - Regeneration 1 – Group buff. Increases the hit point regeneration effects of you and all your allies.
lvl 18 - Serak’s Augmentation I – Group buff. Increases constitution and physical resistance.

Lets compare them with Shaman

lvl 4 - Oracle’s Sight I - Buffs an ally increasing energy by 50 and lowering the cast time of all splells by 20%.
lvl 4 - Infusion I - Increases an ally’s max hit points by 90 and Armor Class (AC) by 27
lvl 8 - Spirit of Rakurr I (SoR) - Increases movement speed by 30% and increases mounted speed by 5%.
lvl 14 - Level 14 Boon of Boqobol - Single Target Underwater Breathing Buff. (will get a groupbuff of this one at lvl 30 I belive)
lvl 25 - Boon of Alcipus - Instills your ally with the ability to float like the hawk Alcipus.

After that shaman has patron buffs, I will take the rakurrs in this example since it is what I knowe.

lvl 18 - Rakuur’s Grace I - Increases your ally’s melee haste by 18% and their dexterity.
lvl 25 - Scent of the Blood - Pet and Shaman are buffed and are granted increased melee damage and reduced endurance costs.
lvl 30 - Speed of Rakurr 2 - Increases the speed of your ally by 50%.

- So you increase hp, vit, wis, int, hp regen, con and physical resistance.
- I increase energy, hp, ac, movement speed, melee haste and dex. And I get to decrease the cast time of spells, make ppl breath under water and levitate.
Do you really have that much to envy?

We are supposed to be a complement to eachother, not to be the same.


I just don't get it. We are diffrent, we offer diffrent things and offcourse this will meen that other classes have stuff that we don't. But on the other hand we will allways have stuff other classes don't.

Why not just roll the class you want and then be happy with your choise, you will never ever get it all. Personally I think every healing class will be perfect for those who wants to play it. Will be and not is, since there is to many things broken or bugged with all healing classes at the moment.

Add Levitate, regen, DS, and Melee Haste to the BMG list too (although only one at a time). people always seem to forget symbiotes when they talk about this.

[Shalindra]

Add Levitate, regen, DS, and Melee Haste to the BMG list too (although only one at a time). people always seem to forget symbiotes when they talk about this.

Thanks but now I understand the - I want more buffs - even less. :) If it wasn't for my Patron I would roll a BM. ;) But well I'm a sucker for wolfs and speed :D

[Kylrath]

Could you elaborate a bit?

Sure no problem.

Listen, I don't want to Cleric hate, although it must seem like that.

The key point here is that Sigil intends to have 4 primary healer type classes. These four classes are designed to do their job differently, but equally effectively. There are important scenario's however where the Cleric is simply better than every other healing class.

--Key Scenario--
Dungeon diving group. Bad pull, multiple adds. It happens. Lets compare how the Cleric and Bloodmage perform in this situation:

--The Bloodmage--
Due to either the sheer amount of DPS incoming on party member, or the risk of a resist being too high, the Bloodmage decides to use a Direct Heal to save a party member. The Blood Mage immediately gets aggro from 4 of the adds and his life drops below half almost instantly. Blood Mage pops Life Husk for a 6 second reprieve and now has to get his health topped off to survive another hit before Life Husk wears off. This is essentially a 4 second window (due to global cooldown after casting Life Husk) and presents the Blood Mage a choice between 2 bad options.

1) Cast Despoil to bring his health back up and risk a complete resist. With no Blood Union built up, its doubtful that Despoil will be enough to heal the BMG. Advantage to this option is it only creates agro on one mob, thereby letting the other 3 mobs be peeled off easier.

2) Heal himself using direct heals. Guaranteed heal but also guaranteed to keep generating aggro on every mob in the encounter, making it essentially impossible to peel them off. As soon as Life Husk disipates, the Blood mage will be instantly vaporized.

Bottom line, it is very, very likely the Blood mage is going to die in this scenario. Once the Blood Mage dies, the group soon wipes, leaving corpses straned deep in the dungeon bowels.

--The Cleric--
The Cleric, being designed around direct heals, doesn't really even have to think about what to do, he simply pops a direct heal off on the party member. The cleric then gets the same aggro from the same 4 mobs. However being a plate wearing class, the Cleric doesn't wilt nearly as fast as the Blood Mage. The Cleric calmly heals himself. This adds to the hate of the four mobs, so the party struggles to get the adds off the cleric.

No problem, the cleric continues to tank and heal while the party kills each of the adds. The cleric's highly efficient direct healing methods and energy regeneration allow him to sustain this tank & heal tactic for a very long time.

The party easily finishes off the adds and compliments the cleric on his uber tanking ability.

--Bottom Line--
Each healing class needs to perform reasonably similar during this very common encounter scenario. As long as the Cleric is the clearly superior performer during this type of intense, out-of-control encounter, the Cleric will be seen as the preferred healer type.

Unless Sigil wants a SINGLE class to be seen as the PREFERRED healer type for dungeon scenarios, this is something that MUST be addressed.

As I've stated, I think it needs to be addressed through toning down the cleric rather than changing a bunch of BMG gameplay mechanics, which compared to the non-cleric healers seem balanced in the overall scheme of the world.

[treyalsup]

Do you still get these? (don't knowe since the update on spell-list rarely is up to date)

lvl 2 - Health Graft I - Group buff. Increases maximum hit points.
lvl 4 - Serak's Mantle I - Self only buff. Increases your armor class.
lvl 8 - Vitalize I - Group Buff. Which increases vitality.
lvl 14 - Mental Infusion I - Group Buff. Increases Intelligence and Wisdom.
lvl 16 - Regeneration 1 – Group buff. Increases the hit point regeneration effects of you and all your allies.
lvl 18 - Serak’s Augmentation I – Group buff. Increases constitution and physical resistance.


I didn't get Regeneration 1 at 16. Anyone else have this? And I think mental infusion is at 26.

[Kiste]

I chose to reply to this one only because it's the one thing that allways gets on my nervs and one that allways been brought up.
The number of buffs doesn't tell you anything about their usefulness.

lvl 2 - Health Graft I - Group buff. Increases maximum hit points.
lvl 4 - Serak's Mantle I - Self only buff. Increases your armor class.
lvl 8 - Vitalize I - Group Buff. Which increases vitality.
lvl 14 - Mental Infusion I - Group Buff. Increases Intelligence and Wisdom.
lvl 16 - Regeneration 1 – Group buff. Increases the hit point regeneration effects of you and all your allies.
lvl 18 - Serak’s Augmentation I – Group buff. Increases constitution and physical resistance.


Lets compare them with Shaman

lvl 4 - Oracle’s Sight I - Buffs an ally increasing energy by 50 and lowering the cast time of all splells by 20%.
lvl 4 - Infusion I - Increases an ally’s max hit points by 90 and Armor Class (AC) by 27
lvl 8 - Spirit of Rakurr I (SoR) - Increases movement speed by 30% and increases mounted speed by 5%.
lvl 14 - Level 14 Boon of Boqobol - Single Target Underwater Breathing Buff. (will get a groupbuff of this one at lvl 30 I belive)
lvl 25 - Boon of Alcipus - Instills your ally with the ability to float like the hawk Alcipus.

After that shaman has patron buffs, I will take the rakurrs in this example since it is what I knowe.

lvl 18 - Rakuur’s Grace I - Increases your ally’s melee haste by 18% and their dexterity.
lvl 25 - Scent of the Blood - Pet and Shaman are buffed and are granted increased melee damage and reduced endurance costs.
lvl 30 - Speed of Rakurr 2 - Increases the speed of your ally by 50%.

Ok, where to start? Let's have a look at the buffs.

1. The con buff. Con is useless right now.
2. The vit buff. Rather weak. It boosts my healing by about 5% which is nice but hardly makes me have wet dreams. My in-combat mana regeneration increases by a whooping 2. Plus, this buff is virtually useless to anyone but healers.
3. Maybe I missed something but I have no group regeneration buff.
4. Mental Infusion is an OK buff, it could use a few more updates tho.
5. Our HP buff should be roughly on par with the Shaman one but it doesn't offer AC (which isn't much of an issue)
6. A self buff isn't group utility.

The point is this:
In terms of utility, a useless con buff, a not-all-that-useful vit buff and an OK int/wis buff simply don't compare to 20% spell haste, 30% movement speed and stuff like the bear totem 10% DPS buff.

And let's not forget debuffs. The powerful slow and of course all the nice debuffs that come as part of the totem melee attacks, like the Rakurr one which causes all attacks on the target to crit for 6 seconds or the healing effectiveness debuff, mitigation debuff and 50% dmg reduction for 2 hits that are part of various bear totem abilities.

I'm not complaining that the Shaman has this awesome utility. My point is that BMGs lack attractiveness for groups with our laughable con and vit buffs.

Seriously, if you had to pick between a Shaman and a BMG as your group healer, which one would you take? The one that buffs your vit and con and gives you a 30dmg shield or the one that slows the mob's attacks, decreases cast time by 20%, adds 10% to your melee DPS, has spammable HP-to-mana conversion, better survivability and can add at least some DPS without depleting their manapool?

- So you increase hp, vit, wis, int, hp regen, con and physical resistance and Levitate, regen, DS, and Melee Haste - symbiotes (thanks Jeters)
The symbiontes are nice to have but add virtually nothing in the great scheme of things. The levitate symbionte is as useful as your underwater breath spell, true, but the use is extremely situational. I've never used it in a dungeon. What for?

The DS is a bit of a joke, really. 30 damage or so per hit from a 4 or 5 dot mob with HP in the tens of thousands. Yah, totally uber. The haste? Only useful to offensive fighters (def tanks get the DS) and it slightly hastes their autoattack damage - I'd be surpirsed if this symbionte increased total group DPS by even just 1%. You could take these symbiontes from us and you'd never notice a difference in a group. The DS has some solo uses, as it saves you half a nuke or so when grinding 2 dots but that's it.

I see the symbiontes as something that adds flavour, rather than real utility, to the class. As such, the symbiontes are OK. They can stay as they are, for all I care.

Do you really have that much to envy?
This has nothing to do with envy but rather with bringing the BMG class up to par. I've never called for a nerf of another class, which would be the typical reaction if "envy" was indeed my motivation.

This game is supposed to have 4 healer classes that are equally viable when it comes to grouping. The BMG currently isn't. I don't want to take your demi-god class from you, I merely want to be able to effectively keep a group alive in a tough dungeon and not be the cause of virtually every group wipe. Envy? No.

We are supposed to be a complement to eachother, not to be the same.
Strawman. I never said anything about being the same. Where do you get that from? Did I even imply that? Did I even write once that I want Shaman buffs? Can I have some of the stuff you're smoking?

I just don't get it. We are diffrent, we offer diffrent things and offcourse this will meen that other classes have stuff that we don't. But on the other hand we will allways have stuff other classes don't.
I'll spell it out for you again, slowly:
I... do... not... want... the... same.. buffs.. I... want... our... buffs... to... be... more... useful.

Why not just roll the class you want and then be happy with your choise, you will never ever get it all.
I've been waiting for that one. I'm surprised this non-sequitur didn't pop up earlier.

First of all, even if I rerolled another class that wouldn't change anything about the problems with the BMG class. The problems have nothing to do with me, so me rerolling would change nothing. Sounds logical, doesn't it?

Also, I never said "I wanted it all". Just because you don't have actual arguments doesn't mean that you can make them up, kk? Thanks. Learn2debate or something.

[Shalindra]

The number of buffs doesn't tell you anything about their usefulness.

No and they don't say everything about the healer class in groups either, we simply offers diffrent things.



1. The con buff. Con is useless right now.
2. The vit buff. Rather weak. It boosts my healing by about 5% which is nice but hardly makes me have wet dreams. My in-combat mana regeneration increases by a whooping 2. Plus, this buff is virtually useless to anyone but healers.
3. Maybe I missed something but I have no group regeneration buff.
4. Mental Infusion is an OK buff, it could use a few more updates tho.
5. Our HP buff should be roughly on par with the Shaman one but it doesn't offer AC (which isn't much of an issue)
6. A self buff isn't group utility.

The point is this:
In terms of utility, a useless con buff, a not-all-that-useful vit buff and an OK int/wis buff simply don't compare to 20% spell haste, 30% movement speed and stuff like the bear totem 10% DPS buff.

So perhaps your not a buff class? Perhaps the greatness in BloodMages is about the way they heal?

And let's not forget debuffs. The powerful slow and of course all the nice debuffs that come as part of the totem melee attacks, like the Rakurr one which causes all attacks on the target to crit for 6 seconds or the healing effectiveness debuff, mitigation debuff and 50% dmg reduction for 2 hits that are part of various bear totem abilities.

You can only pick one patron. The debuff that comes with mine is hamstering (critical hits for 6 secunds), sounds nice but I wonder how long the recast time is.

I'm not complaining that the Shaman has this awesome utility. My point is that BMGs lack attractiveness for groups with our laughable con and vit buffs.

I do not think buffs/debuffs are all that counts (in that case Shamans are screwed in every group that has a bard since they have pretty much the same buffs as we do, only thers are better)

Seriously, if you had to pick between a Shaman and a BMG as your group healer, which one would you take? The one that buffs your vit and con and gives you a 30dmg shield or the one that slows the mob's attacks, decreases cast time by 20%, adds 10% to your melee DPS, has spammable HP-to-mana conversion, better survivability and can add at least some DPS without depleting their manapool?

Spammable HP-to-mana conversion? Is that what you call my 160 hp to 80 energy with 2 secunds recast (or do you meen at lvl 30 when it is 200 hp to 100 mana)? I would not call it that since it is a slow way to get energy and a good way to get aggro.

I can't say that I don't like the Shamans buffs/debuffs, offcourse i do. But our buffs and debuffs is what makes us diffrent and usefull, since we mostly get common heals. We do have Panacea at lvl 14 (+4 secund ward), Life ward at lvl 18 (50 hp per attack 500 point maximum), Intercession at lvl 30 ((Group Ward + Heal, First Block 60% of all incoming damage for 5 seconds then does medium healing). But then again we don't get a HoT untill 30.


The symbiontes are nice to have but add virtually nothing in the great scheme of things. The levitate symbionte is as useful as your underwater breath spell, true, but the use is extremely situational. I've never used it in a dungeon. What for?

The DS is a bit of a joke, really. 30 damage or so per hit from a 4 or 5 dot mob with HP in the tens of thousands. Yah, totally uber. The haste? Only useful to offensive fighters (def tanks get the DS) and it slightly hastes their autoattack damage - I'd be surpirsed if this symbionte increased total group DPS by even just 1%. You could take these symbiontes from us and you'd never notice a difference in a group. The DS has some solo uses, as it saves you half a nuke or so when grinding 2 dots but that's it.

I see the symbiontes as something that adds flavour, rather than real utility, to the class. As such, the symbiontes are OK. They can stay as they are, for all I care.

Don't knowe anything about those so I take your word for it.


This has nothing to do with envy but rather with bringing the BMG class up to par. I've never called for a nerf of another class, which would be the typical reaction if "envy" was indeed my motivation.

This game is supposed to have 4 healer classes that are equally viable when it comes to grouping. The BMG currently isn't. I don't want to take your demi-god class from you, I merely want to be able to effectively keep a group alive in a tough dungeon and not be the cause of virtually every group wipe. Envy? No.


Strawman. I never said anything about being the same. Where do you get that from? Did I even imply that? Did I even write once that I want Shaman buffs? Can I have some of the stuff you're smoking?


I'll spell it out for you again, slowly:
I... do... not... want... the... same.. buffs.. I... want... our... buffs... to... be... more... useful.


I've been waiting for that one. I'm surprised this non-sequitur didn't pop up earlier.

First of all, even if I rerolled another class that wouldn't change anything about the problems with the BMG class. The problems have nothing to do with me, so me rerolling would change nothing. Sounds logical, doesn't it?

Also, I never said "I wanted it all". Just because you don't have actual arguments doesn't mean that you can make them up, kk? Thanks. Learn2debate or something.

For the last parts I appologise, I should have made sure they didn't adress you directly since it wasn't my intension. I was speaking in general.

And for the question of wich healer I would chose.. Well I have been grouping with BloodMages and guess who was main healer, it wasn't me. ;)

[Malivan]

I didn't get Regeneration 1 at 16. Anyone else have this? And I think mental infusion is at 26.

it was a beta spell.

i would love more meaningful buffs, but the first thing that needs to happen is increased survivability.

[Kexin]

It takes 11 pages to debate blood mages gimpness? This thread should've been over on page 1 with devs responses to boot.

Bloodmages are great when the fight in under control, in fact all healers are. But problem is when there are adds mobs are hitting other group members, or even worst, the bloodmage. While most healers have problems with this, clerics are clearly the best and bloodmages the worst. That much is a fact.

[Kiste]

It takes 11 pages to debate blood mages gimpness? This thread should've been over on page 1 with devs responses to boot.

Bloodmages are great when the fight in under control, in fact all healers are. But problem is when there are adds mobs are hitting other group members, or even worst, the bloodmage. While most healers have problems with this, clerics are clearly the best and bloodmages the worst. That much is a fact.

Exactly. Since the BMG needs to build BU before dps-healing becomes feasible, our instant heal becomes worth a damn, our HoT becomes available and our big heal becomes efficient, we basically suck in the intial phase after a non-perfectly executed pull. What other healer is put at such a disadvantage?

So we blow our mana on the horridly inefficient fast heal, get aggro, mana dump ourselves with the fast heal and IF we survive we don't have much mana left for the rest of the fight. If we die, it's game over anyway unless there is another healer.

Add the BMG's sub-par utility and you have basically a gimped class that is IMO damn close to being broken. Yes, we heal fine in small groups against single 4 dots or against two 3dots. We're doing ok in controllable places like Ksavari Gulch but as the dungeons get progressively tougher, we plain suck.

I've been doing Trengal Keep for the past couple of days and I can't say I enjoyed it. I die more often than anyone else and my death often results in a evac or a group wipe. I'm begining to hate this class. I'm not the most uber player but with more than 8 years of MMORPG experience, I fashion myself to be a fairly experienced player and I can't figure out how to play this class in a way that does not make it a liability to the group. If I get aggro, I Husk myself, frantically spamming numb while trying to keep my HP maxed out, praying the the tank can get the mobs off me before I'm dead. Sometimes it works, often it doesn't.

[Eldahir]

--The Cleric--
The Cleric, being designed around direct heals, doesn't really even have to think about what to do, he simply pops a direct heal off on the party member. The cleric then gets the same aggro from the same 4 mobs.

Where did you get this designed around direct heals from? Clerics main heal is the HoT, direct heals only come to use multiple seconds after fight has started, with clerics that is.

However being a plate wearing class, the Cleric doesn't wilt nearly as fast as the Blood Mage. The Cleric calmly heals himself. This adds to the hate of the four mobs, so the party struggles to get the adds off the cleric.

I think I already adressed this earlier. If you really still think that the extra 13% or so (compared to clothie) mitigation plate offers to your average cleric is the cause of survivability, I'll give up with you on that one.

You want cleric survivability? Ask Sigil to give bloodmages shield and wards then.

No problem, the cleric continues to tank and heal while the party kills each of the adds. The cleric's highly efficient direct healing methods and energy regeneration allow him to sustain this tank & heal tactic for a very long time.

You sure paint a pretty picture of cleric tanking 4x dungeon 4-dots, haha. I hope that cleric at least got flowers to his grave. Don't believe everything you read on forums. In reality that cleric would be in a stunhell. Even if I have to tank with two 4-dots at same time with minor assistance from outside, I'm getting close-to-death experiences.

The highly efficient mana regeneration part made me giggle a little :)
Yes, at 27 I got this IMBA attack every 20 seconds that restores 160 mana. Fear me psionicists, gonna put yah right outta business I am.

--Bottom Line--
Each healing class needs to perform reasonably similar during this very common encounter scenario. As long as the Cleric is the clearly superior performer during this type of intense, out-of-control encounter, the Cleric will be seen as the preferred healer type.

Unless Sigil wants a SINGLE class to be seen as the PREFERRED healer type for dungeon scenarios, this is something that MUST be addressed.

As I've stated, I think it needs to be addressed through toning down the cleric rather than changing a bunch of BMG gameplay mechanics, which compared to the non-cleric healers seem balanced in the overall scheme of the world.

--Bottom Line--
Your view on clerics as overgods is quite exaggerated. They have more survivability yes, but not as much as you think. And as I have already said: you can stop preaching about clerics being the only ones needing a tone-down and they clearly AREN'T.

I agree that bmg's need help with their issues. But not by making them same as the other healers already are. Give them something unique, got example some sort of "fading" which reduces their aggro generation.

And modify the way they/you play. Starting a group heal situation with a direct heal sure isn't the healthiest thing to do. And if your group blames healer after dying to a pull of 5+ 4-dots then you can tell the incompetent group to go to hell. Clerics group would be just as dead as bmg's in that situation.

[Paleghost]

*clears throat*




http://www.paleghost.com/images/boot.png
:eek:
^
Bloodmage

[Kylrath]

And modify the way they/you play. Starting a group heal situation with a direct heal sure isn't the healthiest thing to do. .

I don't want to do a tit-for-tat counter-reply. I think you are trying to downplay the advantages of the cleric. My observations come from grouping with many clerics and seeing what they routinely do.

HOWEVER, be that as it may, I want to be clear that I completely agree with the text I've quoted above. However you've got to understand that my what we are talking about are situations that the Bloodmage is FORCED into using direct heals.

If Sigil addresses issues around Lifetap resists and healing efficiency, the BMG would perform very well in these situations without needing major changes to gameplay mechanics

[furbal]

Well i decided to switch over to a cleric he is now higher lvl than my blood mage i can now tell you that blood mages in end game and raiding will be worthless.

The clerics survivability is sooooo much more than blood mage its nuts, thats were the problem is its the combo of hots,plate,shields that allow the cleric to survive multiple mob agros.

Another thing i just don't get why cleric's healing generates next to no agro? i am grouping with same people tossing out 800 heals, and mob never agros?.

I have never pulled agro even letting tank get to 10% health then heal him to full with my largest heal, maybe bm heals are generating too much hate?.

[Eldahir]

I think you are trying to downplay the advantages of the cleric.

Not at all, if you look my post history here, you'd know that I'm a full supporter of cleric nerf. However, you exaggerate cleric abilities and seem to think they are the only ones in need of a heavy nerf. Which is not so, of course.

In any case, I never disagreed bmg's need loving especially in group healing. Hope they get it. Good day/luck, I'm off to play with my demigod ;)

[flyingpenguin]

I think this story kinda sums things up. The other day I was in a dungeon with a full group. We were doing pretty darn well I have to say. The group was:

Bmg (me)
Cleric
2 Paladins
2 Ranger

Nice group.

So anyways we are going about our business taking whatever comes at us. Some time goes by and the cleric has to go, and we pick up a nearby psi so we are still a full group.

Not 10 seconds go by and I hear this "aw crap...there goes our healer".

Nice.

I think this sums things up because it shows that blood mages just aren't seen as equal by groups. You could chalk it up to the group being uninformed, but realistically, the problem is that in a dungeon situation and all that entails, Blood Mages are at a disadvantage and therefore are not as wanted as the other healing classes.

We could go on and on (and we have) and say we are just "whining" but if the groups are choosing one healing class over another, then there really is an issue.

[Koba]

I think this story kinda sums things up. The other day I was in a dungeon with a full group. We were doing pretty darn well I have to say. The group was:

Bmg (me)
Cleric
2 Paladins
2 Ranger

Nice group.

So anyways we are going about our business taking whatever comes at us. Some time goes by and the cleric has to go, and we pick up a nearby psi so we are still a full group.

Not 10 seconds go by and I hear this "aw crap...there goes our healer".

Nice.

I think this sums things up because it shows that blood mages just aren't seen as equal by groups. You could chalk it up to the group being uninformed, but realistically, the problem is that in a dungeon situation and all that entails, Blood Mages are at a disadvantage and therefore are not as wanted as the other healing classes.

We could go on and on (and we have) and say we are just "whining" but if the groups are choosing one healing class over another, then there really is an issue.

Now finish the story. How did the group go after that with you as the only healer? If it went fine they you should them that BM's can main heal (something I already know).

[Tatt]

You'd have to be blind to not see the glarying inequalities between bloodmages and other healers.

Shaman and Clerics (hardly see disciples) are regularly pulling and TANKING in many groups I'm in. If/when I try that (or somehow) and get mobs on me, my hps start to drop like a rock.

I'd push us to get the shield and block abilitity. Not armor, but a shield. Throw a bone to the "healer" in us.


On a pvp note, a cleric on FFA server (named Tequilia sunrise or something, was a dwarf, low 20's) fought me and two friends (cleric in his mid teens and ranger lvl 19 like me) for a very long time, almost killing me multiple times before finaly running off laughing.

So a lvl 22 cleric made sport of 3 others, if I tried that i'd be out of mana and dead in under a min.

[flyingpenguin]

Now finish the story. How did the group go after that with you as the only healer? If it went fine they you should them that BM's can main heal (something I already know).

Well unfortunately, the story doesn't end so well cause the game crashed shortly after that in the middle of a 4 dot mob fight. When I logged back in the group had split because everyone wiped.

The point of the story is Blood Mages are great primary healers in a controlled environment. However, if the shiz hits the fan and the mobs turn on the healer, then there isn't much a bmg can do except scream like a wuss and die.

Groups understand this and look elsewhere when needing a dungeon healer.

[furbal]

After playing my cleric for some time i notice that i rarely get interrupted using a good shield, on my bm only takes 1 mob hitting me fast.

I really think blood mages need some sort of arcane shield like priests in wow that stop interruption and absorb damage via endurance bar.

Bm really need a use for the endurance bar thats where most of the imbalance is other than survivability in a group as main healer, a dead healer can't heal.

Clerics have no limitation on what healing spells they can cast on them self and thats a big reason why bm die, if you can't hot yourself your going to have to toss a heal on yourself if you try to lifetap and get resisted you die.

Then you pull agro because you tossed a heal on yourself, chances are if theres more than 1 you will die.

So will players choose a bm as main healer in dungeons and raids?, no they will always choose class with most survivability, as a bm i was getting very little tells to join groups, as a cleric i get tells as soon as i log on.

Im speaking of dungeon groups with +2 lvl mobs or more groups don't grind a mobs equal or lower those resists are killer get one at wrong time and all hell breaks loose.

I was grouping with my cleric +5 lvl groups they had 5 levels on me i had no problems keeping them alive and never got agro , even using my big heals, if we pulled a purple 3 dot, i was always last to die.

[AmonKhan]

This might be a dumb post or just completley wrong, but the reason I think that so many people are noticing the ineffectiveness of DSCS and BMGS is that compared to Clerics and Shamans, we (BMG/DSC) are incomplete. What I mean by that is this: In my opinion so many abilities between Bloodmages and Disciples are BROKEN, it just seems that Sigil hasn't had the oppurtunity to balance the classes in relation to eachother.

The Shaman and the Cleric have tried and true healing/gameplay methods, but trying to balance the Bloodmage (which seems to be the bastard union of a Shadow/Holy Priest from WoW) just differs so much harder from your classic D&D Cleric and Shaman. In my opinion both the Discs and the Bloodmage REQUIRE that your group knows how to play well. Without shields (which are very powerful in this game) There is a much smaller mistake margin for Bloodmages and Disciples alike.

When there is a perfectly blanced group (I.E. an Tank, CC and DPS) and everyone knows how to play, the class can really shine. The problem with this is that pretty much eliminates PUGs. What sigil needs to do is fix DSCS and BMGS post-haste and let people know that both classes require more skill to play than shaman and clerics.

P.S. And itemezation needs to be addressed

[Malivan]

This might be a dumb post or just completley wrong, but the reason I think that so many people are noticing the ineffectiveness of DSCS and BMGS is that compared to Clerics and Shamans, we (BMG/DSC) are incomplete. What I mean by that is this: In my opinion so many abilities between Bloodmages and Disciples are BROKEN, it just seems that Sigil hasn't had the oppurtunity to balance the classes in relation to eachother.

The Shaman and the Cleric have tried and true healing/gameplay methods, but trying to balance the Bloodmage (which seems to be the bastard union of a Shadow/Holy Priest from WoW) just differs so much harder from your classic D&D Cleric and Shaman. In my opinion both the Discs and the Bloodmage REQUIRE that your group knows how to play well. Without shields (which are very powerful in this game) There is a much smaller mistake margin for Bloodmages and Disciples alike.

When there is a perfectly blanced group (I.E. an Tank, CC and DPS) and everyone knows how to play, the class can really shine. The problem with this is that pretty much eliminates PUGs. What sigil needs to do is fix DSCS and BMGS post-haste and let people know that both classes require more skill to play than shaman and clerics.

P.S. And itemezation needs to be addressed


That's a great post! You know, I routinely heal a static group as the only healer, and I have absolutely no problem. There is a light fighter that will literally guard me and wait for me to get that first heal aggro, and then stun the mob for secs. Once I survive that first aggro, I can finish an encounter effortlessly.

For reference, the arena trials in Seawatch Coast of 35-38+ mobs, 4 dots, at level 32, group average 34-35ish (I am 34 now and it is much easier then before). I have spent countless hours farming those damn coins and I am often the only healer. No one in that group would deny that a blood mage can do the job with a coordinated group.

The fact that the group has to compensate for the playstyle of the blood mage is largely what drew me to the class. It reminds me very much of the EQ enchanter, not in gameplay, but in that is a nearly revolutionary (not quite) and complicated design. I agree that the class needs more work, but I hope that it retains its complexity, challenge, and strange gory uniqueness.

[Jeters]

you might have a point there. playing usually with my guild or a static group, I have minimal experience (in live anyway) with random PUG idiots. I'd say that a well coordinated group will ALWAYS be better for any class, though.

maybe its just that shamans and clerics are overpowered and we are fine =p

we have broken stuff to be sure...at least two of the major ones are stuck over in coding land and are waiting for whenever somebody is free to fix them.

[Sailormoontw]

you might have a point there. playing usually with my guild or a static group, I have minimal experience (in live anyway) with random PUG idiots. I'd say that a well coordinated group will ALWAYS be better for any class, though.

maybe its just that shamans and clerics are overpowered and we are fine =p

we have broken stuff to be sure...at least two of the major ones are stuck over in coding land and are waiting for whenever somebody is free to fix them.

HI Jeter, may I suggest a upgrade of mental transfusion. for example,
Mental Transfusion II : 15% -> 75% at lv18
and Mental Transfusion III : 15% -> 100% at lv28
and Mental Transfusion IV : 15% -> 125% at lv38
and Mental Transfusion V : 15% -> 150% at lv48

Because the growth of mana is far better than the growth of the hitspoint, that Mental Transmutation cannot catch up.

Thanks

[Jeters]

see many, many posts by me. something similar to this is coming soon =p

[Tatt]

see many, many posts by me. something similar to this is coming soon =p

I think that Life Husk needs some adjusting too.

I recently got the "upgrade" to Life Husk (lifehusk II... when did MMO's get lazy and start nameing all the new spells I,II,III, etc? Old EQ spells where all slightly different with new names..but I degress).

Anyways, I got the new lifehusk and for 50ish more energy the upgrade gives.... 2% more damage delt to attackers hitting it. Needless to say, I want my "panic" button to be as low mana as possible, so will continue to use lifehusk I. Another thing wrong with lifehusk is the fact it does damage in teh first place. Experimenting with the damage shield symbiote, I found it got me killed...ALOT. In PvE but especially in PvP (I play on FFA). Things would be in my face..i'd root (one of our few "crowd control spells") and it would instantly break because the mob (or player) would hit me and take damge.

Life Husk has the same flaw. Mobs (or players) beating on us... we use our escape and use the 6 seconds to get a root off... root instantly breaks and we are back to square one.

Seriously, i'd much rather that each upgrade to lifehusk increaesd the duration by 1 or 2 seconds and totaly get rid of the damage component that cripples our defensive use of root.

Just my thoughts.

(P.S. I love it we have Invisibility, very handy and very apropriate for the "arcane" healer).

[Sailormoontw]

I have a suggestion for life husk to make it worth the cost without letting it to become overpowered.

Life Husk I : remains the same.

Life Husk II : remains the same, plus during the spell duration your spell cannot be interrupt, and you cannot be stunned.

Life Husk III : remains the same, plus during the spell duration your spell cannot be interrupt, resist, and countered, and you cannot be stunned.

[Shatondra]

I have read threw most of this I myself am 1 of those BM's that can solo 2-3 mobs my own lvl 3dot its hard its not effective this is not how i grind but it can be done.

However why, why, why, do ppl keep bring up we have root and thats a good source of survivability, It is so slow casting yes but whats worse it has a 60% chance to break on dmg. I have never ever had it last more then 2 nukes 90% of the time it breaks with 1. Its actually so bad that If I want any played symbiotes for the MT in my group i have to farm them before any group cause there is no way in hell our root will still be in effect before i can harvest a muscle.

We are squishy yes, but we are cloth healers its a given, IMO life husk should be changed either the duration increased or the recast cut in half either way its the only thing i can press thats omg save me, as of now when i cast it i can get 1 maybe 2 heals off before it fades, I am sorry but a 6 sec shield isn't that great, take off the very minimal dmg reflection and make it last 12 secs something a slight mroe viable but not over powered.

and I agree despoil is a awsome spell i use it when soloing more then anything however when the comment is made we can't even cast out best stuff on us we are talking about fleshmenders, IF I could cast fleshmenders on myself I would prolly live 80% more threw bad pulls or w/e in groups cause at 21 a 455 a tick heal over 20 secs is godly imo it cancells out 90% incomeing dmg and heals ontop of it, for that 20 secs on the MT i don't even have to heal them i can just burst dps that duration.

imo if we could cast fleshmenders on ourselfs that would fix 60% of our squishyness.

and plz drop the root thing if it wasn't for symbiote organ harvests i would never have bougt the spell off the merchant. 60% break on dmg is entirely 2 extreeme

[Tharzidun]

Play with a paladin, let them know when you get agro and need a rescue...trust me, paladins WANT to rescue you. Think like a caster. I played a caster class in all other games. I like the bloodmages because it plays like a caster. But you need to THINK like a caster too:

Avoid AOE range of mobs, hang back, watch for the re-pop areas and the wanderers. Manage your hate generation well.

[Kiste]

Avoid AOE range of mobs, hang back, watch for the re-pop areas and the wanderers. Manage your hate generation well.

The problem is... healers can't really manage aggro. We gotta heal when we gotta heal or people die. And that's often the case in the opening phases of a fight when the tanks don't have the mobs properly locked down yet. A caster can hold back until aggro is under control, a healer cannot do this.

[treyalsup]

The problem is... healers can't really manage aggro. We gotta heal when we gotta heal or people die. And that's often the case in the opening phases of a fight when the tanks don't have the mobs properly locked down yet. A caster can hold back until aggro is under control, a healer cannot do this.

This is just based on my own experience, so for what its worth:

Having to use a direct heal early in a fight means your group, not you, is doing something wrong.

I would suggest for pulls of 3 mobs or more that your casting sequence go like this.
1) Union of Blood (you have to have an assist macro for the main tank and use it religiously)
2) Entwining Vien
2a) if fight is under control- Cyst here
switch stance
3) Fleshmenders (3BU- no mana)
4) Ritual of Gehena (free- the only question is if such a small heal is worth the cooldown)
5) Transfusion of Serak (if 22+)


This puts out alot of long-term, high efficiency healing and you haven't generated any aggro (other than on the main target until Fleshmenders begins to tick).

I don't find myself using the "big heal" frankly, ever. If I had time to cast that long heal then I had time to heal via life-taps and other better methods. The small heal is the "oh-shit" heal and therefore gets used on those oh-shit moments. It's not like you have time to cast the big heal in group PvP unless you like seeing "Invalid Target" on your screen. Use your HoTs- they are efficient and they also make healing via life taps much more managable.

I also find that using the infuse one level below what your max is, is often the best course. If you can cast Infuse IV, use infuse III etc. This tends to avoid over-healing and uneccessary aggro.

[alphazero689]

Since, even with awesome gear, fights can get out of hand, and with the increase of power cost, to all but EV i believe, power can still be an issue. And as it was stated, the other healers tap endurance, so, why not let us.
(this is kind of like OMG I NEED POWER OR WE WHIPE)

Adreniline Acceleration I - III (thinking lvl 15 30 and 45)
Commanding your Adreniline to pump out, you restore energy at the cost of endurance and health. (goes with the who sadistic Emo feeling the BM gives =D )

What i was thinking, is something alone the lines of increased effectiveness, but 100 wasnt divisable by 3 evenly so you will have some extra ;)

Adreniline Acceleration I - 30% Enduance + 10% life = 25% total mana recovery.

Adreniline Acceleration II - 60% Endurance + 15% life = 30% total mana recovery

Adreniline Acceleration III - 90% Endurance + 20% life = 35% total mana recovery

This would have a 6-10 minute recast, depending on the actual ammount of mana recoverd. And maybe even have this as a questable? that seems to be the trend with a few classes.

That, and maybe a HoT or Reactive that has 1-3 charges for a total healing of 20-40% life? also on a REALLY long cooldown like +20 minutes to prevent explotation.

Just some thoughts. As I see the Cloth and think... what advantage do we really get? Cant get healing focus on crafted items at present, its strictly SDF. Which could only heal EV. But, yeah, crafted gear seems to be against us too lol..

Or, you can Give us something like

Endorphine Release - Causes The Bloodmage to recive 95% less damage for 10 seconds. Again, long cooldown. :D

~Roc level 23 Bloodmage of Hillsbury

[Sturmlied]

I had another Idea on how to adress our "squishynes"

What about a pet?

Pet idea 1. - risky balancing

A permanent pet like the necros have. I was thinking about something like a blood golem.

Can't do a lot of damage but can take a beating.

To balance it his taunt ability has a HUGE cool down but is really strong.

Pet idea 2. - more easy to balance

A pet like the earth elemental of the Druids.

I was thinking about something like living pool of blood that does not do any damage but preforms actions to get mods away from us.

It stays as long as there is no 10sek break between figthing (or is destroyed) and needs 10 vials of blood to summon (maybe even a additional symbiot?).

I prefer idea one but it is really dangerous for the balance. But I love the idea of a healer with a pet! =)

[Malivan]

I had another Idea on how to adress our "squishynes"

What about a pet?

Pet idea 1. - risky balancing

A permanent pet like the necros have. I was thinking about something like a blood golem.

Can't do a lot of damage but can take a beating.

To balance it his taunt ability has a HUGE cool down but is really strong.

Pet idea 2. - more easy to balance

A pet like the earth elemental of the Druids.

I was thinking about something like living pool of blood that does not do any damage but preforms actions to get mods away from us.

It stays as long as there is no 10sek break between figthing (or is destroyed) and needs 10 vials of blood to summon (maybe even a additional symbiot?).

I prefer idea one but it is really dangerous for the balance. But I love the idea of a healer with a pet! =)

the idea that we will ever get a pet has been outright rejected. no hope there, according to avair. the most we can hope for is that they make our charm more meaningful.

[treyalsup]

I had another Idea on how to adress our "squishynes"

What about a pet?

No.

But I love the idea of a healer with a pet! =)
Play a Shaman.


To the BMGs that are having energy issues, you are maxxing vitality, right?

[Sturmlied]

Ohh come on treyalsup =)

I love the blood mage as he is just trying to bring in some ideas and I did not say that it's good =)

Antoher idea of mine would be to add a mezz spell to the blood mage.

Freeze Blood - Makes the blood freeze inside your target *g*

[jtoast]

For groups squishiness isn't much of a factor...I am mainly talking about solo play (which should be viable for all classes).


I disagree with you here. Certain classes will always be inherently better in groups and others will have better soloability. Making everyone equally able to solo will simply water down the class distinction.

If you want to solo, play a class that better supports that playstyle.

[treyalsup]

Ohh come on treyalsup =)

I love the blood mage as he is just trying to bring in some ideas and I did not say that it's good =)

Antoher idea of mine would be to add a mezz spell to the blood mage.

Freeze Blood - Makes the blood freeze inside your target *g*

Sorry if I came off as a Fascist, but adding a pet would completely change the concept of the class. I will never play a pet class again in an MMO and frankly, I like the design of the shaman in that the pet is optional, i.e. the shaman has to decide whether to be in patron form or to use the pet. The class is not balanced around the pet.

Besides my own pet-hate, I don't think it addresses what bothered me about the class- i.e. this thread- squishyness. A pet is just another DoT (ug!) and solo tool. We are already above average soloers and a pet would not improve our squishyness in groups unless it had some huge (and I mean HUGE) taunt. No thanks.

As to a mez type spell, we have one. Its called constrict (root). And it is incredibly powerful almost to the point of being over-powered. The only problem with root is that its hard to make work with pickup groups, but if you are in a guild or in voice chat, it makes tough fights very manageable. In PvP its even better.

[Shatondra]

As to a mez type spell, we have one. Its called constrict (root). And it is incredibly powerful almost to the point of being over-powered. The only problem with root is that its hard to make work with pickup groups, but if you are in a guild or in voice chat, it makes tough fights very manageable. In PvP its even better.

Completely disagree with you. anything that has a 60% chance to break on dmg is not over powered when the wind blows to hard constrict breaks. We are talking about our squishyness factor not playing minor CC and haveing a mob punching you int he face with the MT attempting to get it off you, constrict is not going to hold it off while you get back so he can get further attention because! 60% of the time any dmg done breaks it your going to be dead chain rooting it as he tries to get agro verse take the beating chain heal yourself till it gets under control.

Our root is crap total crap and it is not a viable spell to help with our squishyness.

I agree we should not get a pet however DE get one every 15 mins so if you want 1 be a DE bloodmage.

1 of 2 if not both should happen to help squishyness. Sanguine focus should have a decrease agro modifier built in to heals or a higher mitigation added.

Life husk should have the dmg reflection removed and it should last longer then 6 secs. You can't even get a few heals off before its faded. I would say 7 out of 10 times grouped if I am forced to use life husk to attempt to save myself I still die.

[Vidrak]

So how was the HP increase for you guys? Any loving in the survivability sector since Game Update 1?

[treyalsup]

Completely disagree with you. anything that has a 60% chance to break on dmg is not over powered when the wind blows to hard constrict breaks. We are talking about our squishyness factor not playing minor CC and haveing a mob punching you int he face with the MT attempting to get it off you, constrict is not going to hold it off while you get back so he can get further attention because! 60% of the time any dmg done breaks it your going to be dead chain rooting it as he tries to get agro verse take the beating chain heal yourself till it gets under control.

Our root is crap total crap and it is not a viable spell to help with our squishyness.




I think you misunderstood me. I am not arguing that root addresses our squishyness.

I am just pointing out that
a) a pet doesn't help squishyness in a group and that
b) a mez doesn't solve anything either- complaining that we dont have CC is innacurate. We have root and root is great-but it is not some long lasting stun. No, root wont save you if your main tank is beating on the mob that is eating your face but a mez wont work in that situation either.

The chance for root to break on damage is an essential element of charms/roots or they would in fact be stuns. As far as stuns go, anything longer than a couple of seconds has always proven to be overpowered in any MMO with PvP.

However if you think that root isn't useful to a bloodmage, you really just don't know how to use it, sorry.

For the record, I think we still need some help in the squishyness area. Personally, I think that the problem is with life husk. - going from 10% damage back to 12% damage back with each "upgrade"? Please. I'd be happier if it did zero damage back. What it needs to do is go from 6 seconds and add 2 seconds on each upgrade. Or upgrade to include spell damage or protect against stuns and other CC. Its just remarkably weak.

[Shatondra]

I agree with you on life husk. Like i stated.

It is our " oh crap!" spell and it happens to be crap aswell.

I also agreed on the pet that why i offered him the choice of dark elf, Want a pet as a BM? Play a DE. The dmg buff the pet gives is so awsome in FoG I personally love it.

[Jeters]

only problem with the DE pet is that it turns around and stares at you very accusingly whenever you don't have it killing something. otherwise I <3 it. It last for nearly 5 minutes now at lvl 38 and its great.

[Razzorn]

only problem with the DE pet is that it turns around and stares at you very accusingly whenever you don't have it killing something. otherwise I <3 it. It last for nearly 5 minutes now at lvl 38 and its great.

Does it look any different at higher levels, or are there any new skills?

[Jeters]

it gets bigger as you level. mine is taller than me now =(