rogue healing (or lack thereof)

[posterboy]

First of all, big THANK YOU to Sigil for giving us lots of new abilities to play with. I'm very happy with finally having a snare.

However, I tried out all my new abilities today, and encountered the following scenario.

I'm level 17, and I tried fighting a single level 15 3-dot mob. I didn't die this time, like I usually do, but I did get knocked down to about 1% health.

So then I sit back and watch as a level *14* Disciple proceeds to solo not just one, but *two* of the exact same mobs. And he defeats them easily.

The key difference I saw? Healing. No matter how much they hit him, he simply healed himself right back up. Meanwhile, I have absolutely NO way to heal myself in this game.

Maybe somebody can correct me, but as far as I know, there are no potions, bandages, scrolls, or any other healing device for a rogue. This is what usually ends up killing me.

So, Sigil, many other classes in the game are solo'ing these 3-dot (and sometimes 4-dot) mobs. Please either let Rogues enjoy in the fun, or make everyone as weak as we are. I don't want to throw away 17 levels of hard work by re-rolling something else. I like my rogue. But currently he's weaker than a 3rd-grade school girl. Help!

[Demonix]

Get a group. Problem solved. With the DPS boost you might actually find a group as a rogue whereas you were hard pressed to before. This is supposed to be a group game, and rogues definitely are not supposed to solo. You know why the disciple was healing? Because he's a HEALER. Now here's a thought, instead of logging to go and complain on the forums, ask the disc to duo with you and you'll plow through higher lvl 3-dots much faster than either of you were soloing the lower lvl ones and get way more xp and higher lvl loot.

[Kexin]

Get a group. Problem solved. With the DPS boost you might actually find a group as a rogue whereas you were hard pressed to before. This is supposed to be a group game, and rogues definitely are not supposed to solo. You know why the disciple was healing? Because he's a HEALER. Now here's a thought, instead of logging to go and complain on the forums, ask the disc to duo with you and you'll plow through higher lvl 3-dots much faster than either of you were soloing the lower lvl ones and get way more xp and higher lvl loot.

This would make no sense since the discp could easily plow through 3 dots mob solo and get faster xp while keeping all the loot. When he pulls more than one mob he can FD.

While I don't play a rogue it seems this class need more help. The have zero ultility and whatever dps they provide doesn't set them apart. Most groups will invite a ranger and never notice the difference.

[posterboy]

Get a group. Problem solved. With the DPS boost you might actually find a group as a rogue whereas you were hard pressed to before. This is supposed to be a group game, and rogues definitely are not supposed to solo. You know why the disciple was healing? Because he's a HEALER. Now here's a thought, instead of logging to go and complain on the forums, ask the disc to duo with you and you'll plow through higher lvl 3-dots much faster than either of you were soloing the lower lvl ones and get way more xp and higher lvl loot.

Your "solution" doesn't solve the problem at all. I do group for dungeons. Other times I solo. I am not doing anything wrong by wanting to solo sometimes. Don't try to tell how I'm supposed to be playing. Yeah, I could also just go do Diplomacy and Crafting, that'd solve the problem too, right?

Fine, the Disciple is a healer. And yet he is apparently also a damage dealer, because he wiped the floor with those 3-dot mobs. If it took him 10 minutes to kill a single mob, I'd be cool with his survivability. But that's not the case.

[Demonix]

How can you complain after discs had their dmg ubernerfed a few patches ago? They're doing around 1/5th-1/3rd of the dmg they used to by varying accounts. And as to the first reply, the disciple would not kill things faster than he would duo'd. As long as the rogue isn't doing negative damage (figure that one out for me) they would be killing faster. If the disc tanks, the rogue can be behind the mob using his high dmg flanking skills which means the rogue is doing far more dps than solo and also contributing more to the duo. With the disc tanking and rogue being able to rupture and backstab without needing to stun they will be killing things ridiculously fast after this last patch. If they can kill 1.8 things in the time it would take the disc to kill 1, they will be getting more xp (assuming 5% bonus per member for a duo...I don't remember the actual numbers). No, discs don't have things like taunts, but they have good dps output and heals which is more than enough to hold aggro as long as the rogue doesn't go nuts on his dps output and uses his aggro management skills.

EDIT: Just thought I'd point out that a rogue should be outdmging a disc, especially while behind the mob, which would mean they would be killing at least twice as fast as the disc alone. Basically guarantees the duo would get faster xp. Simple math.

And, I never said you can't solo. You are trying to solo 3-dots, which are supposed to be for duos or better. Just because some classes can do it, doesn't mean that's the intent. Go solo 2-dots if you have to solo. But don't come on here whining that a healer can solo 3-dots and you can't. Especially after playing all 4 healer classes, while they can take down 3-4 dots, it's slow and boring, especially on 4-dots. Also, FD is a joke for disciples and barely ever works when needed. If you want to complain about their survivability leave that skill out of the conversation.

Before this patch rogues had trouble with 2-dots, and now even they can solo 3-dots if they are geared well and know how to play their class (go to the safehouse, people have been reporting their successes after the patch and a few people have said they'd taken down 3-dots). Don't complain that you can't take 3-dots, and go solo 2-dots as you're supposed to. The bottom line is that while healers can take 3-4 dots solo, it's slower than grouping or grinding 2-dots at a faster pace and the only thing it's good for is pissing off the likes of you. Yes, they can finish some quests that you can't without a group, but they can't sneak all the way to the end of a dungeon with sorc/psion/ranger support to take out a boss without crawling through it.

[posterboy]

How can you complain after discs had their dmg ubernerfed a few patches ago? They're doing around 1/5th-1/3rd of the dmg they used to by varying accounts. And as to the first reply, the disciple would not kill things faster than he would duo'd. As long as the rogue isn't doing negative damage (figure that one out for me) they would be killing faster. If the disc tanks, the rogue can be behind the mob using his high dmg flanking skills which means the rogue is doing far more dps than solo and also contributing more to the duo. With the disc tanking and rogue being able to rupture and backstab without needing to stun they will be killing things ridiculously fast after this last patch. If they can kill 1.8 things in the time it would take the disc to kill 1, they will be getting more xp (assuming 5% bonus per member for a duo...I don't remember the actual numbers). No, discs don't have things like taunts, but they have good dps output and heals which is more than enough to hold aggro as long as the rogue doesn't go nuts on his dps output and uses his aggro management skills.

EDIT: Just thought I'd point out that a rogue should be outdmging a disc, especially while behind the mob, which would mean they would be killing at least twice as fast as the disc alone. Basically guarantees the duo would get faster xp. Simple math.

And, I never said you can't solo. You are trying to solo 3-dots, which are supposed to be for duos or better. Just because some classes can do it, doesn't mean that's the intent. Go solo 2-dots if you have to solo. But don't come on here whining that a healer can solo 3-dots and you can't. Especially after playing all 4 healer classes, while they can take down 3-4 dots, it's slow and boring, especially on 4-dots. Also, FD is a joke for disciples and barely ever works when needed. If you want to complain about their survivability leave that skill out of the conversation.

Before this patch rogues had trouble with 2-dots, and now even they can solo 3-dots if they are geared well and know how to play their class (go to the safehouse, people have been reporting their successes after the patch and a few people have said they'd taken down 3-dots). Don't complain that you can't take 3-dots, and go solo 2-dots as you're supposed to. The bottom line is that while healers can take 3-4 dots solo, it's slower than grouping or grinding 2-dots at a faster pace and the only thing it's good for is pissing off the likes of you. Yes, they can finish some quests that you can't without a group, but they can't sneak all the way to the end of a dungeon with sorc/psion/ranger support to take out a boss without crawling through it.

You seem to have some unexplained hostility towards me. or possibly the entire Rogue class, which I'm not going to attempt to understand, or respond to.

However, you keep bringing "groups" into this discussion, which is a completely separate topic. There is no way you will ever convince me that a level 14 Disciple should be able to solo two level 15 3-dot mobs within 30 seconds, while a level 17 Rogue can barely handle one, and only if he gets enough criticals to do so.

You can throw all the insults you want at me, but I do know how to play my class, and I do have the best armor/weapons I can for my level.

If you're going to continue in this discussion, please stay on-topic.

[Rowain deWolf]

This would make no sense since the discp could easily plow through 3 dots mob solo and get faster xp while keeping all the loot. When he pulls more than one mob he can FD.

While I don't play a rogue it seems this class need more help. The have zero ultility and whatever dps they provide doesn't set them apart. Most groups will invite a ranger and never notice the difference.

Sorry but thats a blantant lie. A Disc can kill those 3 dots (the same as a Pally can) but he for sure does not plow through them nor does he rake in more XP/time than you. You may not be able to kill 3 dots but fior sure you make faster XP by killing 2 dots a lot faster than a Disciple (at least thats what I suppose a rogue to do).

[Rowain deWolf]

There is no way you will ever convince me that a level 14 Disciple should be able to solo two level 15 3-dot mobs within 30 seconds, while a level 17 Rogue can barely handle one, and only if he gets enough criticals to do so.


Sorry a lvl 14 Disciple can't kill one lvl 15 3-dot in 30 secs not talking about 2. He can kill 2 (if they are not stunners) but only during a long time.

[Neoptolemus]

Rogues are supposed to be difficult to play because they're designed for a group environment. Solo a disciple may well be massively superior to rogues, but this game was always meant to focus on group activities, whether it be duoing, grouping or raiding. I believe the devs even claimed they were aiming for about 20% solo content (correct me if I'm wrong) with the rest going into crafting, diplomacy and grouping.

This means that the classes are not balanced for solo. If they were, the rogue would be given abilities that enable them to retain stealth in 1v1, or given better unstealthed dps. Disciples and clerics may be ridiculously good at soloing mobs, but once they hit the high levels and start relying on groups to complete quests that will count for nothing. You on the other hand, will find it tougher to start with but you will then be awesome once the group quests become more and more important to your levelling.

My advice? Persevere and don't be dishearted if that disciple can solo 3-dot mobs with ease, it won't count for anything in groups.

[Owle]

You seem to have some unexplained hostility towards me. or possibly the entire Rogue class, which I'm not going to attempt to understand, or respond to.

However, you keep bringing "groups" into this discussion, which is a completely separate topic. There is no way you will ever convince me that a level 14 Disciple should be able to solo two level 15 3-dot mobs within 30 seconds, while a level 17 Rogue can barely handle one, and only if he gets enough criticals to do so.

You can throw all the insults you want at me, but I do know how to play my class, and I do have the best armor/weapons I can for my level.

If you're going to continue in this discussion, please stay on-topic.

I don't think he has any hostility toward you , I think he is more annoyed like most people that came to this game because it was a difficult group centric game , and there is constant whining about how "I can't solo this and this" when there is no reason to believe you should be able to, knowing what this game was about before even playing it .

What makes it worse is that it's a rogue complaining , probably the least soloable class in the game, considering thier damage comes from behind.

So if you really want to have a solo class, you have to choose one , don't expect that most classes will be good soloers tho , because aside from the obvious classes , most classes won't be able to solo well , and if they can now I'd suspect Sigil will fix that until, that is afterall what was originally intended

[Viktorr Deathdealer]

Not sure what exactly you're trying to solo, but between levels 12 - 15 I was soloing the named spider (Spinthra I think) in the spider caves near Veskal's, which is a 3-dot L14 (I believe) spider. Now...there are other 3-dot mobs at the time of same level that I couldn't solo, but that's just the way it goes. 2-dot mobs are not bad at all, and I can usually handle 2 of em at a time (one level higher) with a little bit of health left to spare. It's more than just mashing a couple buttons to play the rogue class. You need to have a little more care with what targets you're going for to maximize your chances of success. My rogue is only adequately equipped (mostly blue, with yellow weaps) and it's been good enough so far.

From my experience so far playing a rogue, we are definitely more a group oriented class since it is in that situation where our abilities to dish out damage shine. While I am mainly a solo-type of player, when playing my rogue I always have more fun in a group. It appears that the way the class has been designed, we are relegated to being used in groups to be effective.

Don't despair yet though. I don't believe Sigil is yet finished with revamping the class, and I believe will have a few more upgrades to send our way soon.

[Fingis]

Get a group. Problem solved.

Clerics have that big HoT. It used to heal 200 points a tick. That means if you wanted to hurt the cleric, you'd have to at least do 201 points a tick.

But Cleric dps isn't so hot. So a rogue and cleric dual would be pretty effective.

[Aegorian]

The problem i have with the presentation of this thread is that you chose to compare yourself to another class when it has been clearly stated over and over again that classes WILL NOT be equal. Some will be more efficient at solo play while some will be more efficient in groups. Asking to give rogues a heal (which the thought of makes me want to punch myself in the crotch... and yes... i'm a rogue) is rediculous. We are a DPS/support cast, plain and simple. Nowhere in our description does it say minor healer. That, and our revamp is not complete yet. Wait till you get poisons and you will be grinding that mob down even faster. So not only are you comparing completely different classes, which is wrong... you are comparing a semi-complete class vs a not so complete class.

I'm sorry you dont like that others can more efficiently do what you cannot, but that is how this game was designed. Classes will be balanced to function within the bounds of PvE and not based on bounds of other classes.

[posterboy]

Sorry a lvl 14 Disciple can't kill one lvl 15 3-dot in 30 secs not talking about 2. He can kill 2 (if they are not stunners) but only during a long time.

Look, I *watched* him do it, okay? I was standing stealthed right next to him the whole time. It was two "True Ulvari Priests" or whatever they're called out in the Blighted Lands.

If y'all choose not to believe me that's fine. But it happened. I wanted to bring it to the developers attention, but I wasn't sure where to post it. If there's a better forum for my post, please tell me where. After all, it's not a petition, and not really a bug. Just an observation.

[Aegorian]

Look, I *watched* him do it, okay? I was standing stealthed right next to him the whole time. It was two "True Ulvari Priests" or whatever they're called out in the Blighted Lands.

If y'all choose not to believe me that's fine. But it happened. I wanted to bring it to the developers attention, but I wasn't sure where to post it. If there's a better forum for my post, please tell me where. After all, it's not a petition, and not really a bug. Just an observation.

it's a moot argument given:

A) what i stated above

B) you have no idea what he has in terms of gear. He could be LIGHT YEARS beyond what you have.

You choose to compare the class as if that makes/breaks the ability to fight. It doesnt. There are tons of other factors that you are not taking into account.

[Vioche]

Look, I *watched* him do it, okay? I was standing stealthed right next to him the whole time. It was two "True Ulvari Priests" or whatever they're called out in the Blighted Lands.

If y'all choose not to believe me that's fine. But it happened. I wanted to bring it to the developers attention, but I wasn't sure where to post it. If there's a better forum for my post, please tell me where. After all, it's not a petition, and not really a bug. Just an observation.

i bet you use white gear or something, i took them down 1 at the time today at lvl 14 with about 20-30% hp left or 50% if i got some nice crits..

and no i dont have a higher level character that i have twinked this rogue with.. but i have twinked some other characters with money from my rogue..

[Demonix]

You seem to have some unexplained hostility towards me. or possibly the entire Rogue class, which I'm not going to attempt to understand, or respond to.

Actually I'm playing a rogue since they finally got buffed up from the "useless" level. However, I also understand that a rogue is supposed to do it from behind (yeah...that'll get a snicker out of you I'm sure) and that you can't do anywhere near your full potential while soloing. This is why rogues are poor soloers but great in groups. You can't have everything (unless you're a cleric).

However, you keep bringing "groups" into this discussion, which is a completely separate topic. There is no way you will ever convince me that a level 14 Disciple should be able to solo two level 15 3-dot mobs within 30 seconds, while a level 17 Rogue can barely handle one, and only if he gets enough criticals to do so.

See other people's responses. Classes are not equal in this game and never will be. If a rogue was buffed to make them better soloers they would be off the charts in groups. Since they design the game with groups in mind, this will never happen.

You can throw all the insults you want at me, but I do know how to play my class, and I do have the best armor/weapons I can for my level.

I don't recall throwing around insults, but then again I was drunk.

If you're going to continue in this discussion, please stay on-topic.
I was on topic whether you want to admit it or not. You seem to think that soloing and grouping are entirely independent but you can't change one without changing the other.

I don't think he has any hostility toward you , I think he is more annoyed like most people that came to this game because it was a difficult group centric game , and there is constant whining about how "I can't solo this and this" when there is no reason to believe you should be able to, knowing what this game was about before even playing it

What makes it worse is that it's a rogue complaining , probably the least soloable class in the game, considering thier damage comes from behind.

So if you really want to have a solo class, you have to choose one , don't expect that most classes will be good soloers tho , because aside from the obvious classes , most classes won't be able to solo well , and if they can now I'd suspect Sigil will fix that until, that is afterall what was originally intended
Exactly. Thank you.


Yup.

[garath]

If the dsc cleaned up two 3 dot mobs a level higher than him in 30 seconds or less, he either got lucky with some epic crits or you are mistaken.

It takes me an average of 2 minutes to kill a 3 dot my level or higher after the crit changes and that's with Clarity (a level 18 ability that gives us a guranteed crit).

Perhaps the mobs were casters with very low hp. I find casters pretty easy if they don't have enough burst damage to one shot me.

However, the whole point of your thread is flawed. This is a group-centric game. Some classes are going to solo better than others. That's the way it is and the way it should be. If you are unhappy with your ability to solo, roll a more solo friendly class or go group and enjoy your role as a melee DPS (especially after some of the recent rogue changes).

edit: and for the record, I will always consent to duo with a damage dealing class. Soloing is slow and boring and duoing is twice as effective.

[posterboy]

This is a group-centric game. Some classes are going to solo better than others.

I've seen these exact two thoughts repeated throughout this thread. Two *completely* opposing thoughts.

So, because I'm a weak Rogue, the game is "group-centric", and I'm playing it all wrong and should team up with others.

But because the DSC can solo, I should go roll a DSC, because some classes are better at soloing.

Huh?!

But for the record, yes he *was* fighting caster classes at the time. Casters who would nuke me down to about 1/4 HP with one spell. The DSC got nuked too. The difference is that he could mitigate it via healing. I've got nothing to counter that kind of burst damage. Not a potion, not a scroll, nothing.

As a Rogue, I do expect to be squishy to some degree. Afterall, I'm not a warrior with plate armor. But at least in other games (such as WoW), there is the concept of an "emergency" option that can at least save my butt if things get really bad. For example, a small healing potion with a 2-minute cooldown. Or interruptable bandages.

If my class is smart enough to make/use Poisons (which btw, I don't even get until 4 levels from now), then isn't he smart enough to make a few simple healing potions for emergencies? I don't think I'm asking for much here.

[Gryph]

First off, let me say that this wil not be or ever will be like WoW, so don't expect classes to function like or have the same abilities/playability of WoW.

I have played rogues in both and I much prefer the rogue in Vanguard even at it's current partially complete state. Soloing, I expect to die more than classes, but in a group, whether duo or more, we can plow through mobs with with very few deaths.

Once we get more upgrades we will be able to solo a little better but not near the level of some other classes. This is as it's intended by the devs. Classes will NEVER be balanced. So don't go asking for it.

[Demonix]

I've seen these exact two thoughts repeated throughout this thread. Two *completely* opposing thoughts.

So, because I'm a weak Rogue, the game is "group-centric", and I'm playing it all wrong and should team up with others.

But because the DSC can solo, I should go roll a DSC, because some classes are better at soloing.

Huh?!

Some classes are better at soloing because of the abilities that make them effective in groups. So yes. That is what we are saying. As I already mentioned, if a rogue was made to be a crazy soloer, they would be off the charts in a group.

But for the record, yes he *was* fighting caster classes at the time. Casters who would nuke me down to about 1/4 HP with one spell. The DSC got nuked too. The difference is that he could mitigate it via healing. I've got nothing to counter that kind of burst damage. Not a potion, not a scroll, nothing.

No, but you do have Blinding Flash which can cancel one of their spells every 15 seconds if you're paying attention, plus it lets you backstab for some nice burst dmg. This also means that you wait until AFTER blinding flash to hit Lacerate and by the time flash's recast is up lacerate has ticked off so it doesn't break the stun. Most classes lack the ability to cancel spells so be glad you have this. Your group will love you.

As a Rogue, I do expect to be squishy to some degree. Afterall, I'm not a warrior with plate armor. But at least in other games (such as WoW), there is the concept of an "emergency" option that can at least save my butt if things get really bad. For example, a small healing potion with a 2-minute cooldown. Or interruptable bandages.

That's why you only pick fights that you can win. If a caster is going to nuke you to 25% don't fight them solo. Sigil has always said that there will be high risk vs reward, especially for soloers. If you pick a hard solo fight it means that you have to do everything right, and one flub will get you killed. It's your fault for challenging The Vision.

If my class is smart enough to make/use Poisons (which btw, I don't even get until 4 levels from now), then isn't he smart enough to make a few simple healing potions for emergencies? I don't think I'm asking for much here.


Just for the record, my rogue can now solo 3-dots just fine as long as they aren't casters. Our snare lets us "kite" in our own way. Open with ravage, flash, backstab, lacerate, knee break, run until lacerate is done, and repeat starting from flash. You barely take any dmg in the few seconds you are in melee range of them and they're being hurt by the DoT while you are regenning hp and endurance for your next hit and run. You will often get a chance to use vicious strike or hemorrage too in your short hit and run. This also translates well for PVP but flash can be ignored unless it's a caster in which case you're better off just constantly running circles around them and using flash/smoke bomb to screw up their casts.

[Nikisha]

Well rogues will always be one of if not the worst solo class in the game. Most of our dmg is from behind a mob while stealthed and we can do neither solo constently. I am fine with this, I would rather group anyways and I can solo if I can't find a group but it is a trade off, we are good in groups likely after our revamp is complete one of the best group classes and one of the worst solo classes. To that I same fine by me. I just pray to god they never try to "balance" all the classes, every game that tries it screws it up badly. Either all the classes will be able to do the same stuff and no one will group except to get what they need(aka items) or the game will just end up massively broke.

[Szczuldo]

First of all, big THANK YOU to Sigil for giving us lots of new abilities to play with. I'm very happy with finally having a snare.

However, I tried out all my new abilities today, and encountered the following scenario.

I'm level 17, and I tried fighting a single level 15 3-dot mob. I didn't die this time, like I usually do, but I did get knocked down to about 1% health.

So then I sit back and watch as a level *14* Disciple proceeds to solo not just one, but *two* of the exact same mobs. And he defeats them easily.

The key difference I saw? Healing. No matter how much they hit him, he simply healed himself right back up. Meanwhile, I have absolutely NO way to heal myself in this game.

Maybe somebody can correct me, but as far as I know, there are no potions, bandages, scrolls, or any other healing device for a rogue. This is what usually ends up killing me.

So, Sigil, many other classes in the game are solo'ing these 3-dot (and sometimes 4-dot) mobs. Please either let Rogues enjoy in the fun, or make everyone as weak as we are. I don't want to throw away 17 levels of hard work by re-rolling something else. I like my rogue. But currently he's weaker than a 3rd-grade school girl. Help!


im not going to go through the rest of these posts to see if someone said this. But i have been soloing non healing 3 dot mobs 1 and 2 levels under me since level 17. Keep your gear up to date, pay attention to the fight, and you will be fine, i get under 25% health often but rarely die. You need to find out what abilities to use and when. And this all was before the Rogue buff, i haven't tried soloing 3 dots since then yet.

So grow up, don't complain about rogues not being able to heal when logically they don't have ways to heal themselves anyway.

[Owle]

I've seen these exact two thoughts repeated throughout this thread. Two *completely* opposing thoughts.

So, because I'm a weak Rogue, the game is "group-centric", and I'm playing it all wrong and should team up with others.

But because the DSC can solo, I should go roll a DSC, because some classes are better at soloing.

Huh?!

But for the record, yes he *was* fighting caster classes at the time. Casters who would nuke me down to about 1/4 HP with one spell. The DSC got nuked too. The difference is that he could mitigate it via healing. I've got nothing to counter that kind of burst damage. Not a potion, not a scroll, nothing.

As a Rogue, I do expect to be squishy to some degree. Afterall, I'm not a warrior with plate armor. But at least in other games (such as WoW), there is the concept of an "emergency" option that can at least save my butt if things get really bad. For example, a small healing potion with a 2-minute cooldown. Or interruptable bandages.

If my class is smart enough to make/use Poisons (which btw, I don't even get until 4 levels from now), then isn't he smart enough to make a few simple healing potions for emergencies? I don't think I'm asking for much here.


Yes actually you are asking for way too much

People really need to read up on a game before complaining about a non-issue

if you had educated yourself before buying the game you would know what to expect and not be so upset with how your class works

Of course your mentality completely makes sense as you are using WoW for a reference , WoW was a very easy game, very non-group friendly 1-60 , this game is the other extreme tho, very non solo friendly - thats just how it is, if you don't like it I'm sorry its not going to change

The people that made this game, wanted a rough game, that takes alot of time and effort

None of this easy instance gear , easy soloing crap

They wanted a game were people appreciated the gear they worked so hard for , that took them forever to get , feel accomplished when you hit max level


No one in WoW feels accomplished to hit 60 , if they do they shouldn't, its seriously so easy, you can be the worst player and still hit 60 , thats why you have so many newbs at max level , they never learned to play thier class - this is a direct result of no death penalty , people didnt care if they died, because there was no consequence , so many played like idiots

Newb mages getting agro , you have to be a serious newb if you are dps and take agro regularly . WoW was made for these kinds of people , those that didnt care to learn game mechanics, just mash sinister strike and get the blues and purples , granted there is some heavy raiding with some good guilds , but the pugs were ridiculous

In a game like vanguard , once they weak are weeded out relizing this isn't WoW , you'll notice pugs will run very smooth, much like EQ i suspect

Anyways , i suggest you go and read the info thats out there on Vanguard , it sounds liek you don't know much about it's history and it's coming to being ... once you've done that you'll either A) stop complaining or B) go back to mashing Sinister Strike

[Spottycat]

What the hell is it with people that makes then so dense that they don't understand that Disciples sacrifice a large portion of the DPS and Utility that offensive fighters are able to do in order to be a healer?

You are a Rogue. If you are not able to take the hits being thrown at you, I highly recommend that you find yourself either a parrying dagger to increase your ability to block attacks between using your 6 second stun ability (or) do what a smart Disciple does... find a duoing partner that compliments your class.

You want Hide/Sneak, Massive DPS, Stun, Blackjack, Poison Utilities... and a heal on top of it all? So, basically, you want to unbalance your class and leave monks as a one-trick pony who simply have less-than-rogue DPS and the ability to FD.

Cleric, Disciple and Bear Shaman are entitled to staying power and if they willingly reduce they're healing ability by keeping a lower available mana pool, they are able to dump enough points into Strength and Dexterity in order to do damage.

I listened to a 31 Rogue today brag about getting Back-to-Back 4k crits earlier while killing Kronos Infineum.. My biggest epic hit to date with Zank (the huge legendary martial staff) is 2800...

In reference, I am a 31 Disciple... if I want to fight 3 and 4 dot enemies, I have to actively take a hit in damage output in order to keep myself alive... and it takes twice as long to kill a 3 dot as it does a 2 dot... nevermind the crazy length of time it takes to fight a 4 dot soloing (when and if it's even possible).

Rogues are not entitled to combat-healing abilities when they can do so much DPS through DoT, Backstabbery, Weakness Exploitation and Poisons. Make friends with a healer and go rip down 3 dot mobs together.

If you wanted a small self heal, you should have played a monk. You cannot have the best of all worlds.

[Ohhm]

What the hell is it with people that makes then so dense that they don't understand that Disciples sacrifice a large portion of the DPS and Utility that offensive fighters are able to do in order to be a healer?

You are a Rogue. If you are not able to take the hits being thrown at you, I highly recommend that you find yourself either a parrying dagger to increase your ability to block attacks between using your 6 second stun ability (or) do what a smart Disciple does... find a duoing partner that compliments your class.

You want Hide/Sneak, Massive DPS, Stun, Blackjack, Poison Utilities... and a heal on top of it all? So, basically, you want to unbalance your class and leave monks as a one-trick pony who simply have less-than-rogue DPS and the ability to FD.

Cleric, Disciple and Bear Shaman are entitled to staying power and if they willingly reduce they're healing ability by keeping a lower available mana pool, they are able to dump enough points into Strength and Dexterity in order to do damage.

I listened to a 31 Rogue today brag about getting Back-to-Back 4k crits earlier while killing Kronos Infineum.. My biggest epic hit to date with Zank (the huge legendary martial staff) is 2800...

In reference, I am a 31 Disciple... if I want to fight 3 and 4 dot enemies, I have to actively take a hit in damage output in order to keep myself alive... and it takes twice as long to kill a 3 dot as it does a 2 dot... nevermind the crazy length of time it takes to fight a 4 dot soloing (when and if it's even possible).

Rogues are not entitled to combat-healing abilities when they can do so much DPS through DoT, Backstabbery, Weakness Exploitation and Poisons. Make friends with a healer and go rip down 3 dot mobs together.

If you wanted a small self heal, you should have played a monk. You cannot have the best of all worlds.




How come rangers get healing? They do way more dmg than rogues and have way more utility?

[Astery]

not every class is equally suited for solo play, rogue is great for groups with tank in it, so like yesterday i had real hard time in KE group without tank.

disciple is healer class, so why on earth would rogue be healing too? disciple btw is very nice class, as good as druids.

i would like to see potions ingame for endurance restore and hp restore.

[trinix]

not every class is equally suited for solo play, rogue is great for groups with tank in it, so like yesterday i had real hard time in KE group without tank.

disciple is healer class, so why on earth would rogue be healing too? disciple btw is very nice class, as good as druids.

i would like to see potions ingame for endurance restore and hp restore.

Rogues don't want healing spells. Atleast I hope we never get it, because I don't want to give up anything for it or be expected to heal in a group or raid.

Rangers will get what they deserve and we will get some more love, I'm happy, solo is for the time between not the balance.

[Faelor]

The devs have been upfront about soloing before, and I am going to reiterate what they said many'a months ago as it stays true in this and nearly every other MMO.

Not all classes have the same capable. The sheer design of one class and how it is conceptually can outweigh another class. You can have a class do less DPS and have less healing capability than another, but that doesn't mean they won't have other factors involved to make them a better solo'er. Certain classes can debuff a mob and have great CC, some do not. Not to mention how effective a spell is (energy/endurance costs vs. effect of spell) will decide who is a "better" solo'er in short and long duration fights. And in Vanguard there is a great counter system, for melee and spellcasters.

So while I tried to "summarize" what devs have said in the past, I got carried away. There are many factors that interfer with a class concept, and Sigil has and is attempting to balance both as best as possible. Who wants to play a game where all the classes are the same anyways?

[Szczuldo]

You want Hide/Sneak, Massive DPS, Stun, Blackjack, Poison Utilities... and a heal on top of it all? So, basically, you want to unbalance your class and leave monks as a one-trick pony who simply have less-than-rogue DPS and the ability to FD.

I think im missing the Massive DPS part of being a rogue :p But then again the past few patches have done wonders for that. Poisons don't work, they are terrible, cost too much money for what they give.

[Arn]

As most things are in MMO's when comparing classes and balancing, its a trade off.

In this case a rogue can pump out the 2 dot mobs faster than possibly anyone, with the exception of maybe a sorc or ranger. The Disciple would not be able to pump out the 2 dot mobs as fast so in that case a rogue would out exp a disc.

However a Disc can solo harder 3 dot mobs more efficiently than a rogue can, meaning he can get more exp that way.

It probably all comes close to balancing.

You fight 20 2 dot mobs where a disc fights 12 3 dot mobs. you finish at the same time and probably are close in total exp.

Rogues can't solo higher lvl stuff well, its always been like that and probably always will. Should get used to it.