(DK) post patch impressions and bugs

[Valamir]

posted this in TTH forum and was suggested to post it even here so...

is passed some times from the 2 last patches and here my impressions about the changes in vanguard and our class in particular

first the bug list....

shadow meld: not working and it gives bonus on dodge that we have not anymore

despoil: not working at all, tried on different mobs, many times and nothing happens

dreadful countenance: DC3 is missing... when we reach DC3 "status" the debuff applied on a mob is again the DC2 one

dreadful countenance: debuffs from different DKs seem to have stacking problems at same DC level, you can have a DC1 and DC2 debuff active at same time but not 2 DC2 debuffs

i'm also not sure that all skills based on DC are working as intended... our stances bonuses, or shield of fear seem not to "improve" with DC as intended (but i admit that i need more testing to be sure)


things that imo are not effective and need a bit of love

most of them are offensive skills but note that i don't think that DKs are gimped in that repart, just some love to make some skills more "balanced" and a minor boost to our dps

Torture: atm is one of our few int/wis based attacks, at lower levels torture is extremely good and give a good amount of dps while at higher level it lose its effectiveness... basically at lv 10 it was ticking with a damage equal or superior with our autoattack while at lv30 it hits for 1/2 if not 1/3 of it...

for our main int based damage source i will like to see some boost at higher levels to keep it inline with its low level effectiveness and giving to int specced DKs a good offensive tool. i think a boost of 2x or 3x dmg at such level should be ok and, considering that it is a dot, is based on int and the amount of damage we generate at such level should be balanced.


Black wind: this skill is extremely unefficent... ok it is an aoe but the damage is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low for its cost and recast time making it quite useless as both aggro and damage tool...
a reduction in cost is quite needed to make it more balanced, maybe even a time reduction recast can comes handly... like 10s instead of 20...


WoD: total joke.... high cost, 15m recast timer for pathetic damage... when i use it in group it deals 1.5 to 1.7k dmg... it seem great until you notice that chars at level 30 crit for almost 1k dmg with their autoattack a crit chain hit for 2-4k, and 4 dot mobs have 40 or 50k hps.... now this damage on 15m recast is really laughtable... good options are to make it a %dmg base difficult to resist (as suggested in other post) or lower its recast time to 1... 2mins max

devour str/mind: it was lowered with changes to stats but now i think they are a bit underpowered... 35 stats at lv30 is not that much, minor debuff and buff... maybe 70was a bit too much but again we see a loss of effectiveness as the skill grow up from earlier levels

little note... in another post i criticized phantasmal blade... after using it in group situation i have to say that is a very good skill in its current form and its drawbacks, that can seem severe as necessary to keep it balanced.


where are our lifetaps?
yup where are they gone?... at my level we had 3 lifetaps... harrow, Sod and cull... now we have only harrow that is the most inefficent one between the 3.

was DK's defence so powerfull to need such severe nerf?
grouping with a pally and comparing a bit our skills and stats it seem to me that they get better defence and healing... so seem quite logical to me that whitout ability to tap, or a severe boost in our defence we are not equal to them tankwise...

was said that nerf to SoD was made in haste and successive testing demostrated that in most situations it was working as intended and was going to get unnerfed in a patch.... weeks have passed but is still nerfed.

and cull? where is it... not a word a day was there the dey after it poofed... at least tell us if is going to be reworked an reimplemented or if it is gone... and note that it was our only int based tap :rolleyes:


cookiecookiecutter and stats....
a thing that intrigued me in Vanguard was the combat and char developement... it seemed, even by word of devs that was possible to react to mobs "moves" and to spec characters in many different ways and still be effective...
i was alredy dreaming of fast and smart fighters doing their job more by skill, reacting to opponent high damage attacks and preventing damage, opposed to the usual brute force high hps ones that acted as meat shield... 2 ways to play the same char....

i have yet to see any indicator of the opponent attacks and i fear that this great idea is gone... but that's not the point here... the point is that with last changes to stats we fall in the nobrainer cookiecutter character trap...

int based skill are gone or ineffective, str give good bonus both to dmg and defence, dex is now almost useless... where is the character diversification, our ability to play in different way the same char and to customize it in different and effective ways...

plz rethink about that... i don't say to nerf str to before patch, but to make even other stats usefull to fulfill our role and for our skills.

sorry for crappy english :p

[Meldryn]

I agree in some respects. Our forms are in serious need of a revamp. My friend's Paladin at the same level had around 45% melee mitigation in his defensive form. My defensive form barely gets me over 20% mitigation. A friend's Bard in his evasion form before the recent patch changing evasion had mitigation similar to mine, and much higher evasion. If we're supposed to tank, then give us the mitigation that makes it possible.

Right now I feel like a glorified light fighter as far as mitigation goes. When comparing the difference that armor type makes on mitigation, it is laughable. Medium armor wearers with comparable gear are only 4-5% behind my DK in mitigation before you factor in forms. Wearing plate should mean something. In every other game I have played, armor type played a huge role in the mitigation it offered. It feels underwhelming in Vanguard.

I agree on Word of Doom. It is useless in it's current form. I think I have used it five times in 27 levels. Reduce the timer significantly, or you would have to make it deal far more damage than we should be able to throw out instantly in order to make it useful on a fifteen minute timer.

I would like to see some sort of Dev response as to what their vision is for DK's right now. It just feels like we aren't fulfilling our main role anywhere near as effectively as Paladins and Warriors. Yes, we have some fun abilities, but defensive fighters exist to take damage so the more fragile classes don't have to. If we are only slightly ahead of the "flimsier classes" and far behind the other defensive fighters in our ability to take damage, then what exactly is our role? Even our debuffs are too weak to make us a "debuff tank." An answer on this would be wonderful.

[Estar87]

posted this in TTH forum and was suggested to post it even here so...

is passed some times from the 2 last patches and here my impressions about the changes in vanguard and our class in particular

first the bug list....

shadow meld: not working and it gives bonus on dodge that we have not anymore

despoil: not working at all, tried on different mobs, many times and nothing happens

dreadful countenance: DC3 is missing... when we reach DC3 "status" the debuff applied on a mob is again the DC2 one

dreadful countenance: debuffs from different DKs seem to have stacking problems at same DC level, you can have a DC1 and DC2 debuff active at same time but not 2 DC2 debuffs

i'm also not sure that all skills based on DC are working as intended... our stances bonuses, or shield of fear seem not to "improve" with DC as intended (but i admit that i need more testing to be sure)



Shadow Meld - Dont think its working as Defense stat does not increase

Despoil - I cant remove things that a BM friend of mine can think it doesnt work and /bugged it

DC3- its a tooltip error. DC3 is applinying properly test with torture can show this

DC- Dont think their supposed to stack in the first place - does 2 devour str stack - no, do 2 buffs from diffrent BM stack - no.

DC skills that increase - These work however one thing i noticed with Shield of fear is that if the battle ends and the buff is still active it gives 0% forever and you need to recast it.


things that imo are not effective and need a bit of love

most of them are offensive skills but note that i don't think that DKs are gimped in that repart, just some love to make some skills more "balanced" and a minor boost to our dps

Torture: atm is one of our few int/wis based attacks, at lower levels torture is extremely good and give a good amount of dps while at higher level it lose its effectiveness... basically at lv 10 it was ticking with a damage equal or superior with our autoattack while at lv30 it hits for 1/2 if not 1/3 of it...

for our main int based damage source i will like to see some boost at higher levels to keep it inline with its low level effectiveness and giving to int specced DKs a good offensive tool. i think a boost of 2x or 3x dmg at such level should be ok and, considering that it is a dot, is based on int and the amount of damage we generate at such level should be balanced.


Black wind: this skill is extremely unefficent... ok it is an aoe but the damage is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low for its cost and recast time making it quite useless as both aggro and damage tool...
a reduction in cost is quite needed to make it more balanced, maybe even a time reduction recast can comes handly... like 10s instead of 20...


WoD: total joke.... high cost, 15m recast timer for pathetic damage... when i use it in group it deals 1.5 to 1.7k dmg... it seem great until you notice that chars at level 30 crit for almost 1k dmg with their autoattack a crit chain hit for 2-4k, and 4 dot mobs have 40 or 50k hps.... now this damage on 15m recast is really laughtable... good options are to make it a %dmg base difficult to resist (as suggested in other post) or lower its recast time to 1... 2mins max


Torture - Its a hate DOT and works effctivly well in that regard as it can keep aggro off healing hate.

Black wind - For me this does 300-350 damge to all opponetns in front of me and is enough threat to torture 3 mobs in front of me. (assuming im pulling). Should a aoe stragey get called this is useful for intial aggro than usign nexus to get the aggro for 4-8 turns from the player doing most aoe damage. By that time they should all be dead.

WOD - skill isnt worthless as it makes a great deal of hate and i use it everytime its up. !5mins is a little long and 5-10mins sounds apporpiate.

Also remeber that if you max STR with both gear and Points your phys attacks are going to do alot more. Doing 5 str and 2 int i still use my spells effectivly and dont find them to be a waste. Even if u do use all str you can still apply your magic attacks as they use energy and not enduracne and can help u recharge endurance whiel ur waiting.


devour str/mind: it was lowered with changes to stats but now i think they are a bit underpowered... 35 stats at lv30 is not that much, minor debuff and buff... maybe 70was a bit too much but again we see a loss of effectiveness as the skill grow up from earlier levels

little note... in another post i criticized phantasmal blade... after using it in group situation i have to say that is a very good skill in its current form and its drawbacks, that can seem severe as necessary to keep it balanced.


where are our lifetaps?
yup where are they gone?... at my level we had 3 lifetaps... harrow, Sod and cull... now we have only harrow that is the most inefficent one between the 3.

was DK's defence so powerfull to need such severe nerf?
grouping with a pally and comparing a bit our skills and stats it seem to me that they get better defence and healing... so seem quite logical to me that whitout ability to tap, or a severe boost in our defence we are not equal to them tankwise...

was said that nerf to SoD was made in haste and successive testing demostrated that in most situations it was working as intended and was going to get unnerfed in a patch.... weeks have passed but is still nerfed.

and cull? where is it... not a word a day was there the dey after it poofed... at least tell us if is going to be reworked an reimplemented or if it is gone... and note that it was our only int based tap :rolleyes:


Devour Str/mind are both very useful even at 25/35. With my 25 it reduces mob damage by 20 every attack and increases mine by 20ish. I usually pull with torture than devour it while its lumbering over towards me. Combined with Symbol of Despair which absorbs 60 damage every 5 seconds and our now working AoD i dont have problems with the damage we absorb. Also note that if a pally is in ou group he can give us his buffs while we cant give him ours. Another way to think of it is whats better a plate with +20 str or a plate with +45/55 with equal AC on each. Its a large diffrence.

Lifetaps -
Harrow for me does 600 normal damage which is about equal to a instant heal from a healer. Very useful as bascially its a instant heal on a 10second timer(tho it can miss).

Sod at 100% was pretty bad OP as spamming it allowed u to gain more than 50% of what 4 dots mobs were doing. 25% its still useful if AOE is called for but normally i wont use it. Since my group uses heavy CC it wasnt that effecitve in the first place. 50% sounds like a nice number to have.

Remember Cull at 30 since i havent checked the skills list in awhile i assume ur correct and its missing. could only be used when the mob was stunned and since most named mobs are now immune to stuns it would seem a little pointless. Harrow and Sod (prenerf) were more powerful than it.


cookiecookiecutter and stats....
a thing that intrigued me in Vanguard was the combat and char developement... it seemed, even by word of devs that was possible to react to mobs "moves" and to spec characters in many different ways and still be effective...
i was alredy dreaming of fast and smart fighters doing their job more by skill, reacting to opponent high damage attacks and preventing damage, opposed to the usual brute force high hps ones that acted as meat shield... 2 ways to play the same char....

i have yet to see any indicator of the opponent attacks and i fear that this great idea is gone... but that's not the point here... the point is that with last changes to stats we fall in the nobrainer cookiecutter character trap...

int based skill are gone or ineffective, str give good bonus both to dmg and defence, dex is now almost useless... where is the character diversification, our ability to play in different way the same char and to customize it in different and effective ways...

plz rethink about that... i don't say to nerf str to before patch, but to make even other stats usefull to fulfill our role and for our skills.

sorry for crappy english :p

its the same as before patch. Before patch everyone was going Dex +con, now everyone is STR + con. What matters is where u put your extra points into int /dex and such. Also remeber Int scales at the saame rate as STR and also increases hate from taunt skills. Dex prevents rescue resists and increase crit chance. Far from useless.

[Chernobog]

I'm doing Dex/Str, and I'm just saving the rest of my attribute points. I gots 12 or so saved up so far (level 15). Partially, this is due to the Vulmane racial being broken; we get +1 Dex per level, but can only allocate 3 points to dex each level. Therefore, we're getting screwed a point of dex per level until that's fixed.

Either way... I love dex, I don't see it as even close to useless. I use a shortsword to tank, and I practically rely on crit-chains to hold aggro; I drop a Wrack or an Incite on a mob early on, it ain't leaving me for a while, giving me time to gain more hate on the rest of the pack I pulled. More critchance = more wrack/ruin combos (once I hit 18, anyhow) and more chance of Incite proccing when I need it. As well as rescues actually working. Most important stat, imo.

WoD could easily use a lower recast timer - I only use it to pull aggro on an off-mob on a bad pull or to get aggro back from an epic/legendary crit from the DPS. Last resort? Nuh unh. Time you think "Oh crap, I gotta WoD or we're gonna wipe!" you've wiped HARD regardless of WoD's measly damage.

What I'd actually like to see is an increase in AoD's hate modifier. 30% isn't that much, comparatively. Say I'm dropping a skill that does 100 base damage. In Ebon Blade, that sucker hits for 110/110 damage/hate. In AoD, it hits for 90/117 damage/hate. I'm trading about 18% of my DPS for a 6% increase in hate. Damage mitigation bonus? Sure. But 10% isn't THAT much, and 18% DPS from a class that generates most of it's tankin' aggro through damage? Considerable effort in the "Make The Fight End Faster" phase, especially on trash pulls. I haven't tried AoD in a 6-man group since it got fixed, but in a 3-man DRK/Monk/BldMage combo, our group had a harder time with me defensive-stance tankin' than offensive-stance tankin'. Correct me if I'm overlooking something here, please. :)

/Cherno

[Estar87]

at lvl 27 im in 2hander offensive for 2-3 dots, 2 hander defsive for 4-5 dots, and on paticullary nasty pulls i go to sword and board. Before lvl 20 however
2h offensive is the way to go as the mobs dont hit that hard. at lvl 20 4 dots will be doing 200ish damage on me. by lvl 23-25 they were doing 400dmg requiring you to go into AoD. since my shield only gives me 4% mitigation and 16% more chance to block and i lose 50% of my weapon damage i use my 2hander to make more threat so mobs die quicker.

[Valamir]

@Estar87

the efficency remarks i made where about scaling factor of these skills... in the 20 they are still quite effective but you will see soon that when you are in the 30 a big part of their effectiveness is gone as the meele dmg get higher and higher while our dmg spells don't grow up in similar way but, due to mob resists it seem quite "stagnant"

for wod i agree that it can be decent for hate... but then, with 15m recast you have to use it when is needed and is not that the hate generated will be that huge... as said people is critting for 1k with autoattack... 1.7k on a skill of 15m is not that great...

for wod 50% will not change much... wod problem was for people soloing hordes of trash mobs, not by its effectiveness in group or "normal" solo... imo a cap on healing will be a way better solution as you can keep a good effectiveness in usual situations whitout making it overpowered as a "weapon of mass descrution"


for str don't get me wrong... i don't like it as i don't like dex as prominent stat, what i'd like to see is more balanced stats and not just 1 to have and others so and so...

the patch in this reguard was quite bad as it just replaced 1 skill with another... before dex = big dmg + big defence after str = big dmg + big defence... it changed nothing

what i like to see is to have benefit for more stats, to be able to build different chars with similar efectiveness and not to be forced to the usual cokiecutter template.

in developement phase, reading devs comments i had the idea that they wanted something like that for VG, not the usual button smashing with ftm template but a more refined play made of action/reaction where different approaches where possible.

i hope all the great ideas i read are not lost and that the game will still head in the direction of that "vision"

[Tarikko]

It would indeed be nice to not be shunned for race. If I want to play a dark elf DK and benefit from higher int for hate, that should be an option.

If every tank class has to go STR w/ CON and DEX, it will be a little boring as all the gear will have the same stats. If there is a definite difference between SK/Pal/WAR gear, it will be a lot more interesting. DK's could use warrior gear if thats how they chose to spec etc.

If this is the path this game is headed, im excited ^.^

[warakus]

Im level 31 allmost 32.

My mitigation seems ok but sub-par compared to the other tanks even when they are lower level lesser gear (about 5-10% difference) I can still tank but I would like to be on par and tank as well as the other classes.

WoD. I never use it. Not even in PVP. Its resisted so much or does 300 damage or some ridicluous thing that I dont use it becuase it bothers me. Now compare out emergency ability with that of Paladins. LoH never gets resisted and allways heals for a minimum amount. It has a 5 minute timer. That can save a group... what can mine do? with a 15 minute timer? Honestly at this point, it could be removed from the game and I wouldnt notice or care. Personally I would prefer something like the orc racial where I lifetap every hit for a certian period of time... or something usefull.

Cull. Where is it? Can we at least get an answer? Again with the camparison... on one hand you have a tank at my level that can heal for 1400 every 12 seconds... group heal and LoH every 5 minutes.... why did you remove my little cruddy 400 hp lifetap that was connected to a stun? Mobs are hitting for 500-900 now (4 dots) and it would imbalance my class to have a lifetap? Maybe your boosting it and fixing it to make it better? We dont know so tell us whats going on please.

Despoil... does not work. any word?

Some ideas... How about an energy tap? I mean if we actually get to a point where we need to use energy this might be usefull.

How about bond spells? A lifetap over time would be nice.

How about a pet? Doesnt have to be a great pet but something that adds a a little spice. I would be perfectly content with some pet that had 500 hp and hit for 30 at level 30... just to have it.

More spells. Right now I have very little use for my energy. Most of my spells I dont use often enough to even worry about it.. Give us more actual spells.. ones that are usefull.

AE aggro. I can SoD and blackwind till the cows come home... but 2 heals and i lose all aggro... is this a bug? Can we get some kind of aggro tool for multiple mobs?

Symbols... now heres a good chance to make us group viable. Make our symbols hit group wide... up the energy cost and make the damage sheild 70 points at my level.. make despair rune my whole group for 150 every 5 seconds at my level. make the damage symbol land on my whole group .. just increase the energy cost so we have to plan its use.

Im pretty sure server stability is on the platter right now.. but when you get time please look into the DK problems. We are not on par with our counterparts... I love the class and the idea of the class but its just not enough. You guys did a great job with EQ1 classes... the necro and SK were 2 of the most fun classes to play in any game... what happened? I wont even consider playing a necro and really feel for them because you split the necro into a blood mage and necro only got the dots and pet (short end of the stick.) Now DKs (we all know they are the new SK) its the same thing... we are missing some much of the magic the SK had that made them fun.... Pets, lifetaps, dots, a real snare and fear...and harmtouch.

[DrK]

Im level 31 allmost 32.

My mitigation seems ok but sub-par compared to the other tanks even when they are lower level lesser gear (about 5-10% difference) I can still tank but I would like to be on par and tank as well as the other classes.

WoD. I never use it. Not even in PVP. Its resisted so much or does 300 damage or some ridicluous thing that I dont use it becuase it bothers me. Now compare out emergency ability with that of Paladins. LoH never gets resisted and allways heals for a minimum amount. It has a 5 minute timer. That can save a group... what can mine do? with a 15 minute timer? Honestly at this point, it could be removed from the game and I wouldnt notice or care. Personally I would prefer something like the orc racial where I lifetap every hit for a certian period of time... or something usefull.

Cull. Where is it? Can we at least get an answer? Again with the camparison... on one hand you have a tank at my level that can heal for 1400 every 12 seconds... group heal and LoH every 5 minutes.... why did you remove my little cruddy 400 hp lifetap that was connected to a stun? Mobs are hitting for 500-900 now (4 dots) and it would imbalance my class to have a lifetap? Maybe your boosting it and fixing it to make it better? We dont know so tell us whats going on please.

Despoil... does not work. any word?

Some ideas... How about an energy tap? I mean if we actually get to a point where we need to use energy this might be usefull.

How about bond spells? A lifetap over time would be nice.

How about a pet? Doesnt have to be a great pet but something that adds a a little spice. I would be perfectly content with some pet that had 500 hp and hit for 30 at level 30... just to have it.

More spells. Right now I have very little use for my energy. Most of my spells I dont use often enough to even worry about it.. Give us more actual spells.. ones that are usefull.

AE aggro. I can SoD and blackwind till the cows come home... but 2 heals and i lose all aggro... is this a bug? Can we get some kind of aggro tool for multiple mobs?

Symbols... now heres a good chance to make us group viable. Make our symbols hit group wide... up the energy cost and make the damage sheild 70 points at my level.. make despair rune my whole group for 150 every 5 seconds at my level. make the damage symbol land on my whole group .. just increase the energy cost so we have to plan its use.

Im pretty sure server stability is on the platter right now.. but when you get time please look into the DK problems. We are not on par with our counterparts... I love the class and the idea of the class but its just not enough. You guys did a great job with EQ1 classes... the necro and SK were 2 of the most fun classes to play in any game... what happened? I wont even consider playing a necro and really feel for them because you split the necro into a blood mage and necro only got the dots and pet (short end of the stick.) Now DKs (we all know they are the new SK) its the same thing... we are missing some much of the magic the SK had that made them fun.... Pets, lifetaps, dots, a real snare and fear...and harmtouch.

I have to agree with every word you said. I'm noticing all of the exact same things.

Right now DrK's are just sub-par as they climb in levels and have no real class defining abilities or 'oh shit' lifesavers, the dps is low, the tanking ability is the lowest out of the three protective fighters, the forms are STILL broken and in need of rebalancing in light of other game changes.

The list goes on.

What's the deal?

[DrK]

I'm going to have to add a rant to this thread:

Dreadknight forms. They are the worst out of the protective fighters. Why do DrK's get shafted on their forms?

Ebon Blade (the DrK offensive stance): Increase damage done by 10% but increases END costs by 5%. %'s increase by 1% as DC increases.

This one seems to be working fine and not adding any hidden nerfs so I'll leave it alone.


Armor of Darkness (the DrK defensive stance): Lowers damage done by 10%, adds 10% damage mitigation, adds 30% hate per attack. %'s increase by 1% as DC increases.

Man this one is just broken and unbalanced STILL.

Paladin and Warior defensive stances both give 15% mitigation. The Warior def stance also gives + block chance.

The DrK defensive stance gives 10% (not really, we'll get to that later) mitigation.

Why?

I thought all protective fighters were going to mitigate equally?

Sure, DC increases it by 1% per level of DC. This means that at level 40 a DrK, after fighting a mob uninterupted for 1 minute, will finnally be able to get 15% mitigation out of it's defensive stance. Ugh...


On top of that, Drk def stance is still not actually granting even 10% mitigation, it's more like 9.25%.

AND (yes there is more) DrK defensive stance lowers SPELL damage but does not increase spell mitigation?!?!

Does Paladin defensive stance decrease healing efficiency?

I don't think so.

The spell damage reduction either needs to be removed from DrK def stance or spell mitigation needs to be added.



Shadow Meld (the DrK 'balanced' stance: Increases to hit ration by 5%, adds 5% evasion, adds 5% chance to dodge, and adds 5% chance to parry. %'s increase by 1% as DC increases.

This one is all kinds of broken.

First and foremost, it adds +5% to Dodge. DrK's had this ability in beta, but it was removed, and the form was not tweaked to suit. So it's adding to a skill that DrK's don't posses any more. this needs to be changed to add 5% to block.

As far as anyone can tell, this form is not applying any of it's bonuses correctly, it doesn't seem to be doing anything much at all.

It really just needs to be tweaked to actually work and have the +5% dodge chance changed to block.

[Zemm]

Personally, I hope they don't give us pets. If they want to stick to DK's not just being another SK they won't give us one. And I really hope they don't, just too cheesy if you ask me.

As for Torture not scaling, I'd put money on this not being a problem with the ability but a problem with stats. You see your auto attack and all of your melee abilities scale as you level up and put bonus points to STR (and little or none to INT) and get better gear that adds to STR (and little or none to INT), so your INT stays basically the same, while your STR sky rockets... Of course those melee attacks are going to scale way better than your dot, if you're specializing all of your gear and stats to help them and not help your dot. Borrow a set of gear that's got a ton of INT on it, get your neighborhood Psi or Necro to INT buff you, or take some of your points from str/dex/con and put 'em in INT, then go try out Torture and I bet it's just right. If you ask me, your spells shouldn't do as much damage if you're not training for them (by putting points towards them or gearing up for them).

Something else that would help with that, I think, would be a Devour Mind ability, same as Devour Strength except it buffs/debuffs INT (and possibly wis or con).

[Warhead]

• Devour Mind II: *Debuff/Buff* Reduces MoBs INT and WIS by 96. Increases your INT/WIS by 96.

[DrK]

• Devour Mind II: *Debuff/Buff* Reduces MoBs INT and WIS by 96. Increases your INT/WIS by 96.


Our debuff/drains have all been nerfed really hard.

It does less than half of that now. Actually i don't think the #II version of that skill even exists anymore.

[Valamir]

Personally, I hope they don't give us pets. If they want to stick to DK's not just being another SK they won't give us one. And I really hope they don't, just too cheesy if you ask me.

As for Torture not scaling, I'd put money on this not being a problem with the ability but a problem with stats. You see your auto attack and all of your melee abilities scale as you level up and put bonus points to STR (and little or none to INT) and get better gear that adds to STR (and little or none to INT), so your INT stays basically the same, while your STR sky rockets... Of course those melee attacks are going to scale way better than your dot, if you're specializing all of your gear and stats to help them and not help your dot. Borrow a set of gear that's got a ton of INT on it, get your neighborhood Psi or Necro to INT buff you, or take some of your points from str/dex/con and put 'em in INT, then go try out Torture and I bet it's just right. If you ask me, your spells shouldn't do as much damage if you're not training for them (by putting points towards them or gearing up for them).

Something else that would help with that, I think, would be a Devour Mind ability, same as Devour Strength except it buffs/debuffs INT (and possibly wis or con).

actually i'm int specced (probably going to respec str) and with autoattack i do probably 2x dmg than torture, no problem is not low int but low effectiveness of our spells or eventually low benefits from points we put in int

[Arcadi]

I have leveled to 34 on my Dread Knight both tanking in groups and soloing on about an equal basis.

So far I have been very pleased with the way the class works in theory, but there are a lot of issues that need to be still need to be addressed.

Stances
Armor of Darkness - AoD currently does not add a full 10% mitigation. The precise number currently being 9.00% added. AoD also does not add any mitigation to spell mitigation, it is currently unclear whether this is intentional or bugged. Clarification on this stance is needed.

Shadow Meld - States that it "modifies your to hit ratio by 5%", what effect this is supposed to have is unclear, it needs to be represented by a + or - 5% modifier. 5% Evasion is unclear, there is no "evasion" statistic on character screens aside from spell evasion. 5% additional parry does not appear on character screen. I have not seen any noticable gain of parry when in this stance. The stance still references having 5% extra dodge, which Protective Fighters are not supposed to have. Since the stance is supposed to add a flat 5% it may be that Protective Fighters start at 0% dodge and can gain a positive effect, but this as well is unclear. Needs clarification. Given the many issues with this stance I assume it currently has no effect, a response as to the current state of this stance would be helpful.

Abilties
Bleak Foeman - Can not be cast with only a shield, requires both a shield and 1-handed weapon. Ability only states a shield requirement. Sometimes displays block animation before the ability triggers, leaving the buff up. The following block displays no animation.

Devour Strength/Mind - Self-buff is applied before or seperate from resist checks, ie. The mob can resist the spell and you are still buffed. Unknown to be intentional or bugged. If a mob resists Devour, the mob is not aggroed, or broken from an activate sleep/mez.

Shadow Step - Many issues with collision detection inside of dungeons. It is very easy to get stuck inside of objects while using Shadow Step. Shadow Step can also fail if used with an ability that is just about to be refreshed. Shadow Steps cooldown timer activates but no ability is used and you are not teleported. Shadow Step is occasionally used up if a check for an open area behind the mob is failed.

Wrack/Ruin-Incite/Inflame - After using the first ability Wrack/Incite, if you are stunned before Ruin/Inflame is used or runs out the icons do not reset to Wrack/Incite. Wrack/Incite must be used from a seperate icon or from your spellbook. Doing so will activate Ruin/Inflame, if then successfully used the icons will reset like normal. Also if Ruin/Incite is clicked before the global refresh of Wrack/Incite completes the ability fails to activate.

Vengence - Does not become active everytime a block occurs.

Ravaging Darkness - Still applies buff to yourself even if the ability misses and the mob is not debuffed. In this case though you do not gain the beneficial endurance regen, despite having the buff. Needs clarification on intention.

Aggro Issues
Aggro generated from Life-taps is very unclear, Scythe of Doom seems to generate almost no aggro on mobs. Clarifaction on what is actually happening would be useful.

Log Lines:

Harrow
[12:22:40] Young Leaper's <highlight>Harrow IV</color> heals you for <highlight>377</color> hit points.
[12:22:40] Young Leaper's <highlight>Harrow IV</color> heals you for <highlight>332</color> hit points.
[12:22:42] You have slain Young Leaper!
[12:22:42] <BLUE>You are healed as you draw 711 points of Young Leaper's life from it.

Scythe of Doom
[12:23:31] Ksaravi Raider's <highlight>Scythe of Doom III</color> heals you for <highlight>94</color> hit points.
[12:23:32] You have slain Ksaravi Raider!
[12:23:32] <BLUE>Dark energies heal your health for 378 points.
[12:23:32] Your <highlight>Scythe of Doom III</color> hits Ksaravi Raider for <highlight>378</color> damage.

Racials
Fury of Ghann - Other Dread Knights I have talked to say that this does not work with Dread Knight abilities. I have tested it.
Spiritual Bond - Limited testing seems to show that this does not work with Dread Knight abilities. I have not tested it thoroughly.

[Warspawn]

Total agreement here with the observations.

I'm only a 24th DK at the moment, but our 'harmtouch' is a joke. Reduce timer to a minute or two or increase damage to a % of the enemy's total HP. 1/3rd, 33% would be a fair amount if it's kept to 15min.

Reduce the timer on our stun-after-block. If we're desperate enough to be spamming bleak foeman for the blocks, refresh that reaction more quickly so that we can chain more often.

Repair our Scythe! They said it was a mistake...so fix it already! There have been a couple patches now; it seemed easy to nerf. Why not pump it back up a bit now?

Torture should scale more heavily as we advance. That spell just doesn't do any kind of noticable damage by the mid 20's. Fix it...

What did ever happen to Cull? Is it common practice in a paid gaming environment to drastically alter and remove skills without so much as a word about why?

[sypher_ffs]

I think it would help alot if someone told us what our nieche (sp ?) was ment to be in comparison to the other three tanks, are we meant to be debuffers, life tappers, mitigators, spell mitigators, have the most hate generation at high DC levels .. what is our specific role, something we can do that no other tank can do. As far as i can tell my offensive chains and debuffs are very nice but i'm here to tank not to DPS. Perhaps if we are going to be a debuff tank then allow our chains to apply Debuffs to the mob that bump our mitigations and hate generation above that of the other two for a small period of time ?.

Meh anyways i can still tank a dungeon just suffering from an identity crisis lol.

[Shawnsan]

I think it would help alot if someone told us what our nieche (sp ?) was ment to be in comparison to the other three tanks, are we meant to be debuffers, life tappers, mitigators, spell mitigators, have the most hate generation at high DC levels .. what is our specific role, something we can do that no other tank can do. As far as i can tell my offensive chains and debuffs are very nice but i'm here to tank not to DPS. Perhaps if we are going to be a debuff tank then allow our chains to apply Debuffs to the mob that bump our mitigations and hate generation above that of the other two for a small period of time ?.

Meh anyways i can still tank a dungeon just suffering from an identity crisis lol.


Some of the chains have an option to do that but that interrupts the chain altogether...and you miss out on the final piece of the chain..

Shield of Fear is the ability I am thinking of and it adds to you block % based on level of DC...
Why should that not allow you to progress to Ruin I , II etc??

[sypher_ffs]

Some of the chains have an option to do that but that interrupts the chain altogether...and you miss out on the final piece of the chain..

Shield of Fear is the ability I am thinking of and it adds to you block % based on level of DC...
Why should that not allow you to progress to Ruin I , II etc??

It would be nice and i don't see why it shouldn't, it should actually bridge into a weaker version of Ruin that may have a different effect rather than the usual DD, Wrack, Ruin, chain that pushes out big numbers. I was actually giving this post some thought yesterday and i realised that my questions where actually my answers, we are all of the above, when we get fixed that is.