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Wudan
02-26-2007, 10:16 AM
Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career. The reason I say this is simple, the whole diplomacy is so repetitive and boring its unbearable. The amount of grinding is insane. Once you find out the right tactic you can NEVER lose. I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order. It took me quite a lot of time to grind from 50 to 70 and i grew sick of it, I utterly hate it now. Im sad to say this as I had really high expectations and was looking forward to becoming a diplomat.

If you think about it. . .how many dipl lvls is there? 300 - 400? Can you imagine the grindfest? Its gonna get slower the higher we get.

I dont understand this whole concept. Do they really expect, that pople will sink houndreds and houndreds of hours grinding the same parleys over and over again and aigain, playing the same cards and getting the same respons every single godamn time?

I did like 1-50 quests, they seemd to have some story in them and it was new, but than, once I got used to it and started with civic. . .

Im so disappointed:cry:

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad

Puuma
02-26-2007, 11:14 AM
Do they really expect, that people will sink hundreds and hundreds of hours grinding the same parleys over and over again and again, playing the same cards and getting the same response every single goddamn time? (edited for spelling)

198 diplomacy...nuff said?

Wudan
02-26-2007, 12:04 PM
uhm..yeah...now I know you went through many hours of mindless repetitive parleys that have no other purpose than getting some crap buff you dont need.

I mean common, getting AOE buff for all this effort? Was not the Diplomacy meant to effect the world? AOE buff can hardly be called a change / shit in the world of Telon.
Its more like a joke. Sure extra buff wont hurt, but am I gonna spend houndreds of hours trying to move that lever? No thanks

198 diplomacy...nuff said?
ok you are 168, so what? what did you get out of it except the buffs? uhm yeah I know...a lot of fun, Im sure you are reading all the dialgues, enjoying the lore...truly exciting
I would bet you just spam-clicked through it like everyone else, grinding the same NPCs over and over. There is tons of posts admiting to doing so, basically because there is no other way. people are not even reading all the civic parley dialogues anymore, hell how could they after doing 440th parley

/laugh

Mirra
02-26-2007, 12:59 PM
Why so hostile to someone who doesn't seem to have the same problem you do? Maybe diplomacy is just not for you. There are many, many people who have skills over 200. And yes, it is a big grind. But then again, the other spheres can be as well. Granted, diplomacy is more of a grind than the other 2 spheres are, but it was also introduced late. I have gotten my skill to 238. Why? Because I know what things they have in store for it and I didn't mind the grind.

At this point, I have gotten a little bored of it and have done most of the quests (except the New Targ ones) so I have decided to take a break and get into crafting until they are able to bring new content in.

But no matter what they add, diplomacy will have a lot of grinding to it. I have actually enjoyed it all so far. You might find it better to just put the sphere off temprarily until they are able to bring in everything they have planned.

Trias
02-26-2007, 02:06 PM
Yeah, I agree that it's utterly awful right now. I don't know how one can stand to grind this out, but some do.

It's too bad, because the quests are fun and the concept is great. Maybe in 6 months they will have enough content to make it enjoyable to skill up.

Probably not until then. I almost think diplo should have just been held off entirely until an expansion.

Joodah
02-26-2007, 02:11 PM
lol:

Mimiga Targonor Raki Diplomat 430

To name the top, theres quite a lot in the hundreds.

Wudan
02-27-2007, 02:46 AM
lol:

Mimiga Targonor Raki Diplomat 430

To name the top, theres quite a lot in the hundreds.

well, ok people are alreay reaching the cap, but do you realize how many hours of repetitive clicking is behind it? The fact that there is people who get over the grind does not make it reasonable.

And I have to ask again...what do you get out of all this grind? Buff?
Is it even worth it? I was expecting big things, I was expecting we would be able to shift the history of Telon, bt instead we get a buff BIG ROFL

whoever spends houndreds of hours playing broken card game just to get some crap buff must be either big fan or mentaly ill

Parallax
02-27-2007, 04:23 AM
Yes grinding on the civics can be really dull, but its hardly less dull then grinding on the same mobs over and over again, ones that have hardly any chance of killing you.

Diplomacy is obviously not done and it can be rough at times, but for me at least even dispite its flaws its still very fun.

If the grind is too much then dont do it, wait a while and come back when its been tweaked more. Or break up your grind, you dont have to grind on the same npcs over and over, go to another town, read some new stories and challenge yourself, same way you would if you were adventuring.

Have you turned in any of the information you have recieved yet? thats how you get your reward. I have made a pretty decent amount of coin selling the clothing rewards from my diplomacy grinding. As soon as you can parley with npcs at the 125 skill lvl you can get "significant" information and the rewards at that lvl are almost always worth a decent amount on the broker exchange...and you are only 6 lvls from being able to do that.

There are diplomacy quests, there are not a ton of them but if you use the wiki here you can find a few that have low presence requirments and you can get yourself some new cards and some new cloths and have fun doing it.

Wudan
02-27-2007, 04:38 AM
Yes grinding on the civics can be really dull, but its hardly less dull then grinding on the same mobs over and over again, ones that have hardly any chance of killing you.

Diplomacy is obviously not done and it can be rough at times, but for me at least even dispite its flaws its still very fun.

If the grind is too much then dont do it, wait a while and come back when its been tweaked more. Or break up your grind, you dont have to grind on the same npcs over and over, go to another town, read some new stories and challenge yourself, same way you would if you were adventuring.

Have you turned in any of the information you have recieved yet? thats how you get your reward. I have made a pretty decent amount of coin selling the clothing rewards from my diplomacy grinding. As soon as you can parley with npcs at the 125 skill lvl you can get "significant" information and the rewards at that lvl are almost always worth a decent amount on the broker exchange...and you are only 6 lvls from being able to do that.

There are diplomacy quests, there are not a ton of them but if you use the wiki here you can find a few that have low presence requirments and you can get yourself some new cards and some new cloths and have fun doing it.

yes I did turn the info for rewards, about 10times I would say. Did not get single reward I could actually use...all junk I sold to vendor

yes I could travel to another town do a different circle of NPCs, but the system will be exactly the same so whats the point? Once I find out what cards to use I will NEVER lose...again. You suggest I should do exactly the same broing thing I have been doing so far, but somewhere else. . .¨

I also thought Dipl was fun and I liked at at the beggining, but I cant like it after doing the same thing for 400th time. Its only fun to a certain point, from there it becomes utterly awful and boring grind. Maybe I could get over it if i knew there was some purpose, something I can look forward to. But there is nada...the only thing i see is stupid buff levers being pulled up and down...

/irony on
WOW look, for 1000 hours of grind i got +5%dmg buff that lasts an hour...WOW! Everyone in town get it too! Aint that exciting?
Lets grind the broken card game another 1000 hours, maybe we will get +10% dmg buff woohoo
/irony off

/flame shield on

Parallax
02-27-2007, 06:08 AM
Haha well you're obviously frustrated and set against having any fun with diplomacy. Every game is based on some sort of grind, adventuring and crafting are no different. I'm surprised that you turned in your informations and recieved absolutly nothing useful, some of it is definetly crap, but believe me some of it isnt.

Going to different towns will give you new stories to read. Parleying with different NPC's will give you new hands to play against. Doing some of the quests will give you decent rewards. If you dont want to look for something different to do then thats your choice, but the fact is that there *are* other things you could be doing. Standing there with the same npc for 4 hours and complaining that nothing changes is pretty lame...

Wudan
02-27-2007, 09:08 AM
Haha well you're obviously frustrated and set against having any fun with diplomacy. Every game is based on some sort of grind, adventuring and crafting are no different. I'm surprised that you turned in your informations and recieved absolutly nothing useful, some of it is definetly crap, but believe me some of it isnt.

Going to different towns will give you new stories to read. Parleying with different NPC's will give you new hands to play against. Doing some of the quests will give you decent rewards. If you dont want to look for something different to do then thats your choice, but the fact is that there *are* other things you could be doing. Standing there with the same npc for 4 hours and complaining that nothing changes is pretty lame...

you are right friend, im frustrated with it, because I had really high expectations. What we have now is basically broken card game with a little story in it that does not mean anything in the context of the game and your end reward will be a buff. . .I just dont get it.

naca
02-27-2007, 09:24 AM
yes I did turn the info for rewards, about 10times I would say. Did not get single reward I could actually use...all junk I sold to vendor

yes I could travel to another town do a different circle of NPCs, but the system will be exactly the same so whats the point? Once I find out what cards to use I will NEVER lose...again. You suggest I should do exactly the same broing thing I have been doing so far, but somewhere else. . .¨

I also thought Dipl was fun and I liked at at the beggining, but I cant like it after doing the same thing for 400th time. Its only fun to a certain point, from there it becomes utterly awful and boring grind. Maybe I could get over it if i knew there was some purpose, something I can look forward to. But there is nada...the only thing i see is stupid buff levers being pulled up and down...

/irony on
WOW look, for 1000 hours of grind i got +5%dmg buff that lasts an hour...WOW! Everyone in town get it too! Aint that exciting?
Lets grind the broken card game another 1000 hours, maybe we will get +10% dmg buff woohoo
/irony off

/flame shield on

First, I agreed with Parallax and trust me, Wudan. You haven't seen anything yet. I know that parleying from 50-75 has the tedious and boring pace (Not to mention those crappy reward), but once you reached 75, you're going to complete your diplomancy aganist more stronger npc with cards that only the quest reward card could save you aganist them. Those diplo reward may be crappy for now, but I can assure you that you will obtain better reward once you have enough skill to complete againist them.

So my suggestion is that you should go out from your town once you reach 75 and move the city where your expression class/race does not give you any advantage aganist it (See also on your manual). By then, you might find diplomacy to somewhat a more challenging matter than what you have now and then.

If you do not wish to continue on diplomacy, then i would like to suggest you to try other sphere also. Overall, Freedom is the main aspect of Vg not the attempt to be the best among the rest.

Overall, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder,so feel free to try other sphere at your own desire.

Calatin
02-27-2007, 10:39 AM
My feeling is that only the lower levels of diplomacy are really complete and the rest is a placeholder.

In the adventuring sphere, it would be as if only levels 1-10 had full quests and mob populations, where 11-50 had a generic "wolf" that had been reused everywhere.

As time goes on, more and more of the diplomacy sphere will be filled out, and there will be much more interesting things to do than grind civic diplomacy against the same five NPCs.

troldan
02-27-2007, 11:34 AM
stay out of tursh.
go to some unused city and play there.
i was able to solo make 2 levers pop in halagrad grinding 90 - 100.

it was a fun achievement but boring way to get there.
i hate the luck of the draw you get sometimes that makes you lose on npcs you hve beaten because you have to wait 5 turns instead of 3 or something hehe.

same thing that plguaes complications in crafting, one time you can make a recipe the next time complications every fn turn.

Mirra
02-27-2007, 12:42 PM
If you hate any kind of grinding, stay away from diplomacy...and maybe MMO's in general. That is just a part of the game. It is not ALL a grind and if you are having this much difficulty, then either diplomacy is not for you, or as you said, you aren't getting it.

Grinding builds up your skill, your presence, your prestige faction, and your regular faction. Your presence will allow you to do more quests. Quests provide different types of rewards from vendor junk to new cards to more presence gear. I have also made several gold from all of the presence clothes selling at the broker. Diplomacy is not all just about buffs.

But speaking of the buffs. The higher your presence, the easier those buffs are to set off. You don't need to spend hours on end to set one off if your presence is high. I can set academic buffs off in 10 conversations.

Diplomacy also has a lot of higher end things yet to come. You need to remember that diplomacy was not even there until towards the end of beta. It is behind all of the other spheres. We have more quests coming, we have alters coming, we have a merchant trade route with a black market (our own way of making money) coming, not to mention the whole faction house thing (or whatever you call it) coming to the big areas like New Targonar. Diplomacy has a lot fo goals and I have skilled high so that I can be a part of it.

Sure, it would be nice if these things were implemented upon release, but welcome to Sony. :P

Right now your options are to either play another sphere for now and come back to diplomacy later, keep grinding away, or quit while you are ahead. Either way is fine, it just depends on what suits you most. It may not be for you but that doesn't mean that other people don't enjoy it.

Kurron Nye
02-27-2007, 01:29 PM
Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career. The reason I say this is simple, the whole diplomacy is so repetitive and boring its unbearable. The amount of grinding is insane. Once you find out the right tactic you can NEVER lose. I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order. It took me quite a lot of time to grind from 50 to 70 and i grew sick of it, I utterly hate it now. Im sad to say this as I had really high expectations and was looking forward to becoming a diplomat.

If you think about it. . .how many dipl lvls is there? 300 - 400? Can you imagine the grindfest? Its gonna get slower the higher we get.

I dont understand this whole concept. Do they really expect, that pople will sink houndreds and houndreds of hours grinding the same parleys over and over again and aigain, playing the same cards and getting the same respons every single godamn time?

I did like 1-50 quests, they seemd to have some story in them and it was new, but than, once I got used to it and started with civic. . .

Im so disappointed:cry:

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad


OMG..you did that to yourself..why on earth did you go in circles in the same city, boring yourself to death?

Why did you not head out to other cities, try different lines, etc..etc..why did you choose to simply stay in Leth Nurae and grind?

Again..you shot yourself in the foot by choosing a most boring way to approach diplomacy. Thats no different than parking in front of a spawn of NPCs and killing that same groups for days.

yea..duh..of course thats boring...but last I checked there is no tether bound to your ankle forcing you to only diplomacy in Leth Nurae.

I think the fault here is YOU chose a VERY boring way to play and now it has dawned on you how boring that was. THe game does not need to change, how you approach it does.

brusw68
02-27-2007, 01:40 PM
Wudan, what do you want us to say?

That you are right that Diplomacy is boring and pointless? You are right, it is, for you.

That there are no rewards worth the effort? You are right, it is, for you.

You obviously do not like the sphere as it curently exists. That's cool, no one is saying you have to play it. Maybe you are dissappointed? Many of us are as well, but we hold out for the future that there will be more to do down the road (more quests like the very interesting newbie quests, merchant diplomacy, player city set up, writs, etc) so we persevere.

So, I am sorry that you are underwhelmed by Diplomacy. I hope you can find other elements of Vanguard that intrigue you that you want to pursue. Not every aspect of every game is for everyone. But in the end, your entertainment is your concern, and if you don't want to do this because you don't like it, then don't. :)

So, honestly, what is it you want us to say in this thread that we aren't saying?

Puuma
02-28-2007, 11:27 AM
ok you are 198, so what? what did you get out of it except the buffs? uhm yeah I know...a lot of fun, I'm sure you are reading all the dialogs, enjoying the lore...truly exciting
(edited for correctness and spelling)

Can I tell you the story of Steppan and Dae? (LOL small dip joke)

Mirra
02-28-2007, 12:04 PM
Can I tell you the story of Steppan and Dae? (LOL small dip joke)


:D lol

Linusboarder
02-28-2007, 12:20 PM
Here's what diplomacy brings to the table right now:

Intriguing quests.

Just last night I needed to travel to Khal in order to do a quest that could give me the +8 Merchant boots I need to do the Quest in Veskal's exchange I would like to do. Yes in order to get this quest I needed to grind up in skill (wasn't a big grind I was at 122 and needed to get to 126 to beat the 175 NPC's).

Civic Levers- Maybe don't mean much to you, but I know the crafter's have loved the crafting buffs and I have enjoyed some of the adventure buffs i have received.

Lore-Much of the games lore is hidden in diplo quests and Civic NPC's. That's why they didn't post much of it to begin with.

What's to come: embassies, writs (regional trade). They have even said maybe you will have to have a diplomat with you to enter a dungeon or something.

If you don't like it, well that's fine, but please recognize there's mkore to it than grinding and civic levers, with more to come. Yes diplomacy will change worlds, but you will have to grind a little to get there (same with adventuring)

Ayeshala
02-28-2007, 08:58 PM
My only big beef right now are the Presence requirements; I worked around that by using my Adventuring-earned cash to buy some +33 shirts and +16 legs off the Broker. I've been traveling a lot in my mid (adventuring) 20s from area to area doing some solo/group stuff and every time I stop in a new city I'll run around and do every quest I have the necessary presence/skill for. It's been fun.

Gnarl
03-02-2007, 02:42 AM
I kinda have the same opinion as the op, and I haven't really seen any posts from anyone else to justify changing my mind.

Yes, you can move around and get different lore, but even doing that, there simply aren't enough stories for the number of parlays that you have to win to move up to the next lvl of NPC's. Eventually you end up seeing the same ones over and over again (which is just and invitation to grind). I counted it when I was grinding from 85-100 on 100 lvl npcs. It's almost exactly 17 parlays per diplo skill point(even longer for presence).

I started grinding b/c I wanted to do more of the diplo quests (I thought most of them were cool and entertaining). Problem with them is that usually the reward for the quest is an item that adds to the same presence that you had to have to do the quest. After I go to the exchange and buy a +33 crafter presence shirt, what am I gonna do with a +6 crafter presence shirt as a reward?

As far as the "it's gonna be great when it's done" response goes...well it's only complete from skill lvls 1-40ish...uhh that means that is is less than 10% complete! I know the whole game was rushed to market, but c'mon 10% complete justifies implementing it? It should have just been left out until it was closer to finished. But that's ot and beyond control of the devs (trust me, I work in IT, I know how marketing can force developers hands...it's just a fact of life in business).

I would just like to see the quest lines and presence requirements moved into a more linear curve so that there is a way to break up the grind a little more.

milow
03-02-2007, 04:13 AM
ok you are 168, so what? what did you get out of it except the buffs? uhm yeah I know...a lot of fun, Im sure you are reading all the dialgues, enjoying the lore...truly exciting
I would bet you just spam-clicked through it like everyone else, grinding the same NPCs over and over. There is tons of posts admiting to doing so, basically because there is no other way. people are not even reading all the civic parley dialogues anymore, hell how could they after doing 440th parley

/laugh

I got 17 or so gold selling stuff, had fun running around doing quest (I did read the quest), Horse and bags. I am waiting for more stuff to get add along the line of trade and writs. I do find it funny that someone might talks about mindless clicking on the same few NPC (which I only do for 3-5 skill up before yes I get bored and move on), yet it ok to pull the same 4 or 5 NPC over and over killing them. Snare dot dot re snare dot dot nuke nuke dead. Not alot of difference between soloing NPC and parleying with NPC.

kjjjjjjk
03-02-2007, 01:11 PM
Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career. The reason I say this is simple, the whole diplomacy is so repetitive and boring its unbearable. The amount of grinding is insane. Once you find out the right tactic you can NEVER lose. I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order. It took me quite a lot of time to grind from 50 to 70 and i grew sick of it, I utterly hate it now. Im sad to say this as I had really high expectations and was looking forward to becoming a diplomat.

If you think about it. . .how many dipl lvls is there? 300 - 400? Can you imagine the grindfest? Its gonna get slower the higher we get.

I dont understand this whole concept. Do they really expect, that pople will sink houndreds and houndreds of hours grinding the same parleys over and over again and aigain, playing the same cards and getting the same respons every single godamn time?

I did like 1-50 quests, they seemd to have some story in them and it was new, but than, once I got used to it and started with civic. . .

Im so disappointed:cry:

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad

OMGZ lol i know exactly how u feel! this one time i stabbed myself in the thumb with a metal spike over and over again for hours and then i was so disappointed :cry: i thought it would be fun but it WASNT!!! :cry:

lol get real man

brusw68
03-02-2007, 02:28 PM
As far as the "it's gonna be great when it's done" response goes...well it's only complete from skill lvls 1-40ish...uhh that means that is is less than 10% complete!

There is stuff to do above level 40 -- more quests are going in every patch, but you are right, the sphere is only about 10% completed from what we have been told will be coming in the future (writs, merchant diplomacy, tier 3-5 clothing, player city diplomacy, etc).

And you are correct about a pretty large spectrum of inbalances between reward vs. effort (buying a +33 presence shirt to win a quest for a +6 presence shirt).

And you are correct that, as of now, the sphere is more grind than content.

So for those of you he see the picture above, which is completely accurate, and wonder what the point is -- then I would answer that for you, there is no point. Maybe down the road there will be, but now? Not so much.

But for those of us who do enjoy the sphere as it is, and see future content as a bonus not a requirement, what we get of it is the game play, the stat building, the quest completion and the stories involved (I personally liked the Three and a Half Fools quest in Three Rivers) and the tier 1 and 2 item winning. That we enjoy it and others do not just means we are not all alike.

I also enjoy peanut butter and classical music, each of which some other people can't stand either. toMAYto, toMAHto.

Calenor
03-02-2007, 10:44 PM
If you try parleying with different races, different stations and in different conversations you ll probably realize that you need different cards all the time. I also like the fact that turning the info you get items.. keeps you going. DIPLO RULES

Gnarl
03-04-2007, 02:59 AM
Just to clarify, I like the diplo concept, and have enjoyed it from time to time.
I mean, c'mon I must have screw or 2 loose for leveling it over 100 on one char and then doing it all again to 200 on another!

So, in the interest of constructive criticism and in an effort to improve my negativity (sry, had to throw that in as I just got my review at work and negativity was listed as an "area of improvement").

Here are some simple suggestions to improve the short-term playability of the diplo sphere (imho).

1) Make the quest rewards different from the requirements of the quest. i.e. Don't give us a +15 academic presence shirt for completing a quest that required 75 acad presence to complete. Give us, say, a +15 merchant or domestic presence shirt. Realistically, if the npc's parlay is set at skill 75, it shouldn't require 75 presence to start the parlay anyway (but that's a whine, and I'm trying to be helpful...sry). This also give us the ability to hop from one quest to another by using gear we got on the previous quest, instead of having to grind it out, or buying stuff off the exchange.

2) Give us a + to our diplo skill for completing diplo quests. Faction is nice, but giving us skill would also reduce, if not eliminate the grind. I could do without some of the gear in exchange for skill pts or baubles as rewards.

3) And the one I've heard suggested repeatedly: 2 bags for the diplo equipment page, 1 for clothes and one for holding information. I have all 16 slot bags, and as a diplo and crafter, I'm left with only my starter inventory for adventuring stuff b/c all the others and my entire bank are filled with diplo and crafting crap. If the mechanics of the sphere are going to require us to have a different set of clothing for each diplo station, give us a place to put them. Hey, what happened to the diplo pouch fitting on the belt slot of the diplo clothing page anyways? Like it did in beta...

I've got more if anyone's interested, but this post is too long already!

Flight
03-04-2007, 08:01 AM
Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career.

I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order.

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad


I think Diplomacy is terrific; a real innovation.

The way you are approaching it is the problem. If you start playing MtG or some other card game in real life are you going to keep playing the 7 year old kid in the corner, who uses the same starter deck over and over a hundred times or are you going to play other guys with harder decks and have more fun.

Move on, find some other challenges. I'm sure Diplomacy will develop over time.

Rucki
03-07-2007, 09:33 AM
I think Diplomacy is terrific; a real innovation.


You are utterly wrong. It has to read:

Diplomacy COULD be terrific. it COULD be a real innovation.

But atm its a total waste of time.

I had tried it shortly after starting VG, it took me only 3 hours to find out that the whole concept is a empty bucket. There is really no goal behind it, nothing to look forward to.

Well if there was, i would go into diplomacy 24/7 i swear.

Alot promises had been made about it. But not a single one has come true until now.

I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.

Mirra
03-07-2007, 11:46 AM
You are utterly wrong. It has to read:

Diplomacy COULD be terrific. it COULD be a real innovation.

But atm its a total waste of time.

I had tried it shortly after starting VG, it took me only 3 hours to find out that the whole concept is a empty bucket. There is really no goal behind it, nothing to look forward to.

Well if there was, i would go into diplomacy 24/7 i swear.

Alot promises had been made about it. But not a single one has come true until now.

I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.


Well, considering I am both a diplomat and crafter equally, I can not disagree with you more. But to each their own I guess. As far as money goes, I did not become a dilplomat to make money. That being said, I actually have made quite a lot with clothing on the broker. But of course that will change as more people do it and who knows what to expect once the regional trade market is in. Crafting is more my money maker and I suspect it will stay that way, but that seems pretty obvious as far as expectations.

At any rate, congrats to you for findingout it is a waste of time (for YOU) after 3 hours. ~hands out a cookie~ I will just continue to keep having my fun and enjoy both spheres equally. ;)

Rucki
03-07-2007, 12:14 PM
Thx. I will pay for the cookie. I know you need the money.

mwahahahaha :=)

brusw68
03-07-2007, 01:41 PM
You are utterly wrong. It has to read:
I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.
Huh, I guess VG does have Troll as a player race after all.
/ignore

Puuma
03-07-2007, 03:11 PM
I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

And thus, art reflects life. I can't name a rich diplomat, but a rich CEO is easy.

Silvania
03-08-2007, 02:34 AM
I'm not a high level in diplomacy, but I've found it to be really, really interesting. From the moment I started trying out the diplomacy at the trainer, I've been stuck doing diplomacy since. I love unraveling the lore, as well as getting to know more about my whole starter area.

I'm in Tanvu, and the story behind the dream wars and all that gives the city so much more depth than just a small castle and some rice fields.

Perhaps you don't like diplomacy grinding, because your only goal is to grind to "end-level"? As for myself, I've enjoyed just reading the lore and the stories, and I haven't even noticed when the skills went up. I have fun winning the parleys and enjoy trying different types of parleys with other races and stations to help me better choose the proper cards for different situations.

Furthermore I belive that diplomacy will be greatly improved in many ways. The parley system, city levers and all that is the foundation for them to build on.

People stressing themselves out and being impatient already only displays a limited attention span and lack of seeing a bigger picture further ahead than their own noses.

Mirra
03-08-2007, 12:07 PM
People stressing themselves out and being impatient already only displays a limited attention span and lack of seeing a bigger picture further ahead than their own noses.


I think that is so true. Sure the game is bugged and unfinished. But it seems like everyone is in such a hurry to either get to the end game or be #1. Whatever. Seems to me like you miss out on the fun of what you are actually doing when you get that way.

sumuji
03-31-2007, 11:20 PM
I have a 50 Shaman and decided to pick up diplomacy. I can say doing parelys at 100 skill is already feeling like leveling from 49-50 in adventuring. They added huge grind and a number to reach and that was it. And apparently that's all some people need but even from someone that drug through incomplete higher level content I can hardly stomach it .

So for a game that was in development for over 4 years I have to wonder how there's nothing really practicle in diplomacy 2 months into launch. I just can't comprehend how it could be so incomplete.

milow
04-01-2007, 07:04 AM
What is rich? I have around 60-65 gold and the majority of that is from being a diplomat. Now I know that dosnt touch someone like a boat builder pulling in 50 gold for a boat,but it enough to do what I need/want to do now.

Rollen
04-01-2007, 09:21 AM
What is rich? I have around 60-65 gold and the majority of that is from being a diplomat. Now I know that dosnt touch someone like a boat builder pulling in 50 gold for a boat,but it enough to do what I need/want to do now.

Hi Milow long time no see. I had no idea there was so much money in Diplomacy. Guess I need to jump back in. :)


Rollen
Paladin/Armorsmith

brusw68
04-02-2007, 02:02 PM
So for a game that was in development for over 4 years I have to wonder how there's nothing really practicle in diplomacy 2 months into launch. I just can't comprehend how it could be so incomplete.

Welcome to the diplomatic fold! Yes, the grind to application content is really skewed in favor of the grind right now. The reason is because while Adventuring and Crafting may have had 4 years of development, Diplomacy did not. It developed system was scrapped in Beta 4 (which I believe was in mid 2006) and rebuilt from scratch. As such, Diplomacy has not had 4 years of development, but more like 9 months. Also, the Diplomacy development team is 4 people. I don't know how big Adventure dev team is, but I bet it is a lot larger than 4.

The four people are trying to get content in as fast as they can, and since launch the number of quests has doubled as well as the institution of a unique quest line called Writs. Diplomatic equipment has increased 50% with the introduction of Tier 3 gear since launch, as well as a handful of crafter specific recipes for diplomats. So the sphere content has probably doubled since launch Problem is, double very small is still very small.

The sad truth is that things originally stated in the manual (player cities) or otherwise hyped for release (diplomacy classes) are now probably going to be reserved for the first expansion, so who knows when that will be. But for those of us who enjoy the card game and like the clothes, there is fun to be had. But no, Diplomacy is nowhere close to being complete or even on par with the other two spheres.

I had no idea there was so much money in Diplomacy.

There is not. While it is possible for some Diplomats to make a good chunk of change, this is mostly the leaders who are getting the cutting edge content first and passing down the left overs to younger Diplomats. So I am not saying milow didn't make a gob of money doing diplomacy, if he/she were the first to get T2 and T3 onto the brokers. Just saying that his/her experience would not be typical for a person getting into it now.

Brownshoe
04-02-2007, 03:35 PM
I'm shocked at the number of people that think you need to just grind diplomacy, especially in the level 5-125 area. Maybe after this, but beforehand there are over 50 quests to do once you get past the newb line. Do the level 12 presence quests to get your presence going so you can take on the level 25 presence quests. Do the "Moonstruck" fool line in Tursh, the quest lines in Three Rivers, the quest lines in Veskal's Exchange. After this, you'll be at least 50 presence in most types, 75 in some, and you've got a bunch of new cards. Buy a couple of items with presence from the broker or do a targeted set of civic parleys when you're a little short of a particular kind of presence, then move on. Do the five quests in Lomshir Plains, the 11 in Tawar Galan, and then the 11 in Khal, and you're well over 100 skill and exceed 75-100 presence in most areas. Do the 8 in Neamsog Bunkers, pick up the +18 Soldier belt et al. By the end of it, you're well into the 100s skill-wise, you've got your presences mostly over 75-100, and you're ready to start working towards prestige faction and writs...

Maybe that's when the grind truly begins, but before that the quests are pretty fun...

fatsuprman
04-07-2007, 07:29 PM
yes I did turn the info for rewards, about 10times I would say. Did not get single reward I could actually use...all junk I sold to vendor

yes I could travel to another town do a different circle of NPCs, but the system will be exactly the same so whats the point? Once I find out what cards to use I will NEVER lose...again. You suggest I should do exactly the same broing thing I have been doing so far, but somewhere else. . .¨

I also thought Dipl was fun and I liked at at the beggining, but I cant like it after doing the same thing for 400th time. Its only fun to a certain point, from there it becomes utterly awful and boring grind. Maybe I could get over it if i knew there was some purpose, something I can look forward to. But there is nada...the only thing i see is stupid buff levers being pulled up and down...

/irony on
WOW look, for 1000 hours of grind i got +5%dmg buff that lasts an hour...WOW! Everyone in town get it too! Aint that exciting?
Lets grind the broken card game another 1000 hours, maybe we will get +10% dmg buff woohoo
/irony off

/flame shield on

I believe thats called Sarcasm

niack
08-20-2007, 03:21 PM
"you are right friend, im frustrated with it, because I had really high expectations."

It seems to me that many of the people that came into Vanguard with expectations left disappointed while the oens that came in with no expectations are still playing.....I came in with high expectations for the game also and was bitterly disappointed with the entire game.... I thought Diplomacy especially was flat out awful and saw 0 reason to ever do it once you did a few.....Like the OP said once you learn the tactic you never lose what fun is that??? I think alot of people wanted diplomacy to be challenging and have great rewards for that challenge yet all they got was a horrible grind fest that is no challenge and has rewards that are not worth the time and effort.....I would have rather have had chess or checkers or backgammon or something else that is somewhat challenging instead of DIplomacy....There may be a place someday for this type of thing but right now diplomacy is worthless.

Caldis
08-22-2007, 11:20 PM
Agree with the previous poster entirely. Diplomacy is just not worthwhile and in the same way that the game as a whole is a failure. There are great ideas here but instead of using them to build a great game they used them to add on to the basic EQ outline. Instead of building a world where diplomacy mattered and travel mattered and players run cities were integral to the game they instead spent all their time building a collection of levelling systems.

Sad really.