Aww poop

[Ieranii]

This kinda bums me out...

Experienced players will find themselves returning to their villages and cities of birth from time to time, but not nearly so much as some players might be used to. Vanguard's large, seamless world allows us to steer the more powerful players into faraway places where they won't be interfering with content meant to support younger characters or newer players. We can promise you that those distant lands will provide the most adept player with ample challenge.

I remember when West Commons and the tunnel in EC (in EQ) were hang outs for all the high levels. It was so much fun oggling all that fancy armor and watching them cast all those sparkly spells. I especially liked it when they'd thump Gix or the Nightfall giant /shakes fist at those two characters.

"Listening" to those "big folks" talk in public channels about dragons and raids was a torch set to my imagination and lit me on fire to go see those things.

I could have sworn someone from Sigil once said that having loot that was difficult to acquire was good for the spirit of the game. That it inspired lower levels to achieve greater things. How can it inspire anyone if no lower levels ever see it? :P

/mourn the loss of public meeting spots common to levels.

[Merkeon]

1: I thaught this was a forum about poop but its not, so anyways.

Yeah, they are trying to seperate low lvl's from higher lvl's i gues as to not create a large area of bad "Chi", when someone becomes to strong and is blinded by that, they will tend to pick on the weaker people. This overweighed the other factor of having Older players teaching Younger players, since the game seems like its made for veterans, they dont want that, new people need to learn by themselfs as nt to hold down the experienced ones; but thats only a theory, other then that seperating low from high is good, highers can do more with highers, as lowers can do more with lowers, or something like that. Persoanaly, far away lands wont stop me from visiting time to time, in Star Wars Galaxies i used to travel 5 planets over to go to a friends house bcause my krayt Dragon buisness was on tatooine.

[Integral]

I take it more as an indication that higher level players will be 'locked out' of content in starter cities/low level areas rather than being locked out of the areas themselves.

I think what the statement is getting to is that there will be little or no "non social" reason for high level characters to be in lowbie areas. Hence 90% of high level characters won't go back very much.

I think higher level characters being blocked out from content in lower-level areas is a plus, on the whole. It skewy to be able to do a dungeon/quest as a levl 50 which is meant for level 5 peeps or the other way around (anyone remember ascention at level 2 in GW ?)

As long as i can interact with lowbies out of combat every once in a blue moon, that's all that counts anyways.

And i'm sure that'll be possible.

[Skarlath]

I let myself get overhyped up. I didn't manage my expectations well enough.

To me, this is awful. Absolutely terrible. It sounds very much like Vanguard will be made to be extremely linear. The idea that you can't go back to starter towns makes it sound even worse than WoW - the most linear MMORPG I have played.

What I loved about Asheron's Call 1 was that Dereth was a world. You could adventure forth, or double back on yourself. You could advance into the high level unknown, or you could hang out in the starter towns. The world was quite frequently made so that you might return to somewhere you used to hunt in order to do a bit of hunting of something else in the area.

Vanguard was thought to pride itself on promoting communities. Right? I mean thats what their system of being able to seek out friends from other MMORPGs is about, right? Well what's the use in finding out that my lovable wookie companion from SWG has started playing if I cannot go back to the starter towns and talk to him, help him out, and have a little reunion.

I am sorry, but this is a REALLY bad move. The best way to handle content is to encourage players to double back on themselves. High levels mingling with middle-bies and lowbies.

Just think. If it really does become linear then you will get the effect of everyone at an outpost, and the outposts nearby, will be wearing the exact same armour, and wielding the same weapons, simply because 'that is the best for the level'.

Urgh.

[Ieranii]

Well Skarlath we'll just have to start a "Hang with lowbies" movement :D We can hang around lowbie towns (without interferring with their hunting of course)giving advice and telling stories! It'll be fun! Maybe we can talk someone into bringing cookies. :) I'm just disappointed that there won't be a built in mechanism to make hanging around low level areas more attractive to the masses.

[Skarlath]

Well Skarlath we'll just have to start a "Hang with lowbies" movement :D We can hang around lowbie towns (without interferring with their hunting of course)giving advice and telling stories! It'll be fun! Maybe we can talk someone into bringing cookies. :) I'm just disappointed that there won't be a built in mechanism to make hanging around low level areas more attractive to the masses.

Sounds good!

It is a shame. Mingling with high levels was something I really enjoyed back in AC1. Looking at people's great looking armour in the sub (major player hub), talking to people about where they have just come back from hunting. That game made people double back on themselves, visit old towns. That game had an awesome community.

Bring on the cookies - we will need lots so we can bribe the GMs when they cite us for loitering with intent!

[Eclipse]

The post never said you cannot go back to hang out in starter towns. Over-dramatic I think is the main response I am seeing. This won't ruin anything. This moreso means that players won't be forced to go back to thier starter towns to hang out.
And, in all honesty, I played AC1 as well, and I played it for 3-4 years, and once I hit lvl 10 I never once returned to south shoushi. There was a marketplace (subway) and places like it, but that's different and wasn't a starter town.
There will be transitional trading posts in the world, say your traditional newbie zone 1-20, then goes to thier first big city and finds lvl 40s and 50s peddling their wares...why would they go to the lvl 5 town to do this besides show off their gear??

In my experience, any lvl 60 (or lvl capped) character to go back to starter zones were doing so just for an ego boost...and it distracts the newer players and interferes with their gameplay if the higher lvls are allowed to hunt the newbie zone mobs.

Not going back to your starter towns will nto degrade anything at all, as long as there are large cities (Targonor?) where people can sell to the easily manipulated newer players.

You guys fail to realize that it will be the player-base and NOT the producers of the game who choose where to set up shop...because you don't need a license to say: /3 WTS 5 [uber fire shield]...no, all you have to do is go somewhere and say it.

Vanguard is saying, that you will be so occupied with your current area and new places and cities, that you wouldn't want to go back. So if you're angry at something, be angry at the players who "choose" not to go back to starter towns because there's no point. Don't be mad at a game that develops itself in a meaningful way. Just because you were born and raised in Flafferville, doesn't mean you would ever want to go back once you saw the mountains of Fangorda (made up names obv. :D) And if you were a merchant, starter towns would not be your spot either.

So basically, the only reason I see is RP...or on the off-chance "shameless showing off". And if you want to RP, you aren't going to let a simple "Vanguard won't support visiting starter towns" stop you from doing so.
And if you wanna show off to the newbies, again, VG isn't going to stop you...but i wish i could sway you from doing so.

The high level players in AC didn't go to those places because they wanted to, it was because it was the only place TO go. If there had been areas up in [trying to remember the name of the crazy area with lvl 256 Lugians, tuskers, Virindi and the Trem. Monuoga] a place where they were currently levelling, they would have gone there and been just as happy about doing so.

The players will "always" choose their hub. WoW screwed up big time by only putting auction markets in 2 cities. Because the players couldn't choose their hub. But in AC, most high level players' "hubs" were thier respective allegiance's mansion. Unless they were out hunting. And then Pklite came around and everyone plus their grandma pvp'd in the marketplace all day (stupidest idea ever)

Just because someone isn't in the lowbie area to show his gear to others, the newer players will still have access to seeing the cool stuff. If communication is lacking in a game, it can be remedied by the players by communicating in alternate ways. Forums are a good spot.
But like I said, this won't stop the players from going there, this just takes away the reason they HAVE to go there.
And please don't argue that you should be able to steal all the newbie's kills for some cool trinket you forgot to get 30 levels ago...make an alt, leave the starter areas to the people who are starting. If a higher lvl players' loot is the only thing keeping a ne wplayer playing, the game has already failed.



Original Quote from the top of the page:

>>>>Experienced players will find themselves returning to their villages and cities of birth from time to time, but not nearly so much as some players might be used to. Vanguard's large, seamless world allows us to steer the more powerful players into faraway places where they won't be interfering with content meant to support younger characters or newer players. We can promise you that those distant lands will provide the most adept player with ample challenge.<<<<<<

read what's bolded, and you might understand better why I was wondering why you thought you wouldn't be able to go back. Nay, it is merely saying you won't go back as frequently...Or, as I have stated, you will not be forced to.



Not trying to offend anyone, btw. We have differing views on the subject. :D

-Eclipse

[Xyrrus]

Well Skarlath we'll just have to start a "Hang with lowbies" movement :D We can hang around lowbie towns (without interferring with their hunting of course)giving advice and telling stories! It'll be fun! Maybe we can talk someone into bringing cookies. :) I'm just disappointed that there won't be a built in mechanism to make hanging around low level areas more attractive to the masses.

Honestly, a lot of higher level players do hang out in newbie zones just for the enjoyment of it. It'll be special and mysterious to see a very high level character in some of these areas. Furthermore, the players that are the most helpful are bound to be the ones that show up there.

There's also going to be a sliding scale sort of mechanic at work:

First, you're level 1 and hanging out in Tursh. There are going to be a lot of level 10s hanging out and they're going to seem pretty uber to you. Seeing a level 20 passing through or whatnot will be special.

Next, you're level 20 and hanging out in New Targonor. All of the sudden all around you are these level 40 characters totally decked out in the best armors of thestra as well as exotic items from qalia or kojan. These level 40s will be all over with tons of advice - it'll be like a new world is emerging and the center of that world will be NT (or any other major city).

Eventually you'll move on to lothenland at level 40 and your eyes will be opened again by massively powerful characters who talk about raids, dragons, giant beasts, fantastic treasures and heroic tales.

There will always be powerful characters mingling around newbie zones, but I think actually seeing them as an everpresent thing takes the magic away. I'm reminded of the late velious era when there were several hubs of activity (at least on my PVP server, where EC wasn't a big trading area): Greater Faydark where a bulk of trading took place but there weren't actualy a whole lot of "high level" characters, Fironia Vie where there were mid to high level characters, and then thurgadin which was sometimes a jumping-off point for very difficult encounters.

I was always suprised when I saw a level 60 hanging out outside kaladim. I don't think I'd want it to be a regular occurance.

-Xy

edit: it seems to just make a bit more sense to me, too. Really, why would a level 60 be hanging out around tursh or, for that matter, a level 100 hanging out around new targonor?

[Ominous]

My 2.5 years with Asheron's Call 1 taught me one major thing. You want something to bring people back to the starting towns. Here's how Leveling and placement worked in AC1: Start in starter town preferably Shoushi (PC Population 1-10[at any one moment] Level 1-10) or Rithwic (PC Population 1-15 Level 1-40). As soon as you could survive it, you ran to Eastham (PC Population 5-20 Level 1-50) or portalled there from the abaondoned outpost near Shoushi. People would hunt on the beach and move onto hunting in The Thieve's Den near the beach. Once you hit level 12-15, you went to Qualabar (PC Population 20-40 Level 12-60) top hunt in the Lugian Citadel near there. After that you went to one of the Metos Halls which was far from any towns. After hitting about Level 30, you went to Nexus, which was also far from any towns. By the time you hit 40, you were ready for the Black Spawn Den, which was in the middle of the OP (Obsidian Plains) far from any town. However, you made your hometown Ayan Baqur (PC Population 50+ Level 40-126[the max]), and stayed there for the rest of the game, since you could get anything there. Need to go to another town, but haven't Portal Tied to "Subway"? Ask one of the many portal bots for a portal. From Subway you could go to most of the major and minor towns. Need "New Subway"? They had that to.

There was no reason ever again to return to a starter town except to get vassals. You hunted in the appropriate dungeon, spent most of your time in Ayan Baqur, and occasionally went to Eastham, Hebian-To, or Qualabar. N00bs didn't mingle much with the higher ups. Thus n00bs got the idea that the world was largely empty, since they never saw anyone higher than 15 n the starter towns.

I once went back with a friend. I was level 35, and he was level 42. The n00bs all clamored for buffs and were asking us tons of questions, because they hadn't seen anyone our level. We granted a few buff requests, answered a few questions, and went our merry way. If Vanguard does this, it may end up doing what AC1 did.

[Eclipse]

But like Xyrrus said, Om. Even in AC the levels scaled. In Hebian, you would all of a sudden see a lvl 78 and wonder WTF is the lvl cap??? I'm lvl 12, geez!!! and then you ask them if they are like: "the uberest most awesome player in the game??" And they laugh at you and tell you that it's their alt. Thier main is about lvl 140(126)...I remember being lvl 40, and being quite impressed with doing so (this was before buff bots, when it actually meant something to lvl) and then saw a lvl 112 and a lvl 121 dueling in shoushi. I literally had to stop playing for about 20 minutes to contemplate.

Players who like going back, will go back. But not forcing them to do so is the best way to go.

And, AC didn't have many "quests" to speak of, but the amount of dungeons in the world was what? a few hundred? You could literally dungeon hop for weeks and never run out.
and the way the levelling was handled was better than any game I've played, where it was mroe beneficial for you to be fighting things higher lvl or your lvl instead of min/maxing lower mobs to get the best xp over time...which I despise. lvl 35 characters hanging out in lvl 25 areas is just lame.

But, this is just like a belly button. No more important than that.

-Eclipse

[Ieranii]

I don't believe I was over dramatic. I was saying that it sounds as if folks will be encouraged to be seperated and few people will go back and I feel that's a shame. I tend to be one of the lower level people (I level slowly) and I enjoy seeing the high end armors and hearing the stories. Once I finally get to high levels I'd go back just to help folks and chit chat. Of course by then it'll probably be mostly alts and twinks in the low zones just like it was at the end of my time in eq. Oh well.

In eq there were the druid rings in west commons. People didn't "have" to hang out there but it was handy in a subtle kind of way and so folks of all levels did go there. I never had a problem with the higher level players kill stealing from me or causing trouble. I liked the social aspect of all those different levels hanging out together.

As far as your vision of what will happen and when xyrrus...I listened to folks in the EC tunnel talk about dragons when my toon was under level ten.

The dream of getting to see those things was a big part of why I stuck with it through hell-levels and corpse runs and all of the other things in eq that made me feel like I had "overcome" something and gave me a feeling of having accomplished a goal.

Had I had to wait until level 20/30 or 40 to see/hear level 60's talk I probably would never have gotten that far. It's not just the carrot of "levels" that's important. It's important for folks to see what's out there earlier rather than later. A "this is what you could be when you grow up" kind of thing.

But then again that's just how I feel about it.

[Eclipse]

Will there not be forums for people of a server to talk to each other outside of game?
If there isn't, then yes you are right, and you will not have access to the high-level banter. But if there are forums for chit-chat, then that's where the low levels will be seeing all the "dragon-talk" and high lvl armor.

And like it was stated before, just because you may not be seeing level 60's in your beginning areas, you'll see lvl 20s and 30s perhaps when you are 11, and then when you are 25, you might start to see lvl 40s, etc
And I think in general (maybe this doesn't work for you, but they don't go out to please every individual because that is scientifically impossible) in general, this would be better for other lower levels. You have said that this kept you interested, well I have talked to some people who get discouraged with that interaction. "Look at those guys...I'm levelling so slow, it's just not worth it."
That may be a minority, or your ideas might be the minority, we wouldn't know unless there was a huge poll done, and it's just not worth the effort.

If they give you the tools to find out who's wearing the amazing gear and who's fighting the awesome dragons via forums, or community bulletins in smaller towns stating who the heros of the times are...etc. Then I think you'd be satisfied enough, and without this blatantly "In the face" of the other low levels, it won't discourage them form their slow levelling.

And either way, this isn't going to make or break the game, and *THAT* was the reason I stated it to be a little over-dramatic.
/wave
Still lub ya of course, I just disagree :D

-Eclipse

[Ieranii]

Hahah I lub j00 too! :) That made me chuckle.

We'll have to agree to disagree I think. You are right though about some folks getting discouraged by seeing the high levels. That was something I never understood but it is out there. I'm still disappointed though.

I'll just have to figure out a way to go exploring in high level areas to see cool gear. So when you hear that level 20000 shouting "what's a level ten doing here?!" That'll be me! :D When I finally level I'll be one of those in the low level areas telling stories and buffing people. :p

[Sergo]

I think the FAQ quote was geared more toward preventing farming. If taken to extremes, it could be a problem, but I'll not worry about that unless it happens. I always enjoyed parking the ol' Cheddargnobbler on the stump in front of the arch in Misty Thicket and buffing newbies.

;) I'll never forget the guy who said, "Sergo!?! You're still only level 45? You used to seem so POWERFUL!" Yup. I'd been sitting on the stump pretty much the whole time.

[Skarlath]

Will there not be forums for people of a server to talk to each other outside of game?
If there isn't, then yes you are right, and you will not have access to the high-level banter. But if there are forums for chit-chat, then that's where the low levels will be seeing all the "dragon-talk" and high lvl armor.

And like it was stated before, just because you may not be seeing level 60's in your beginning areas, you'll see lvl 20s and 30s perhaps when you are 11, and then when you are 25, you might start to see lvl 40s, etc
And I think in general (maybe this doesn't work for you, but they don't go out to please every individual because that is scientifically impossible) in general, this would be better for other lower levels. You have said that this kept you interested, well I have talked to some people who get discouraged with that interaction. "Look at those guys...I'm levelling so slow, it's just not worth it."
That may be a minority, or your ideas might be the minority, we wouldn't know unless there was a huge poll done, and it's just not worth the effort.

If they give you the tools to find out who's wearing the amazing gear and who's fighting the awesome dragons via forums, or community bulletins in smaller towns stating who the heros of the times are...etc. Then I think you'd be satisfied enough, and without this blatantly "In the face" of the other low levels, it won't discourage them form their slow levelling.

And either way, this isn't going to make or break the game, and *THAT* was the reason I stated it to be a little over-dramatic.
/wave
Still lub ya of course, I just disagree :D

-Eclipse

I really don't think that forums solve things. They lack immersion, they breed this crazy idea that we are just play a game or something! Nothing can compare to when a high level in AC1 walked past me wearing that veined celadon armour, or when I spied my first level 126. Or when I met the first character on my server to hit the cap. /sigh. Forums just dont cut it. Its not that I want to read up about the stats of the best people in the game. I want to bump into them as a mid-level. Shake their hands. Wish them well on their next adventure.

:(

[Eclipse]

I really don't think that forums solve things. They lack immersion, they breed this crazy idea that we are just play a game or something! Nothing can compare to when a high level in AC1 walked past me wearing that veined celadon armour, or when I spied my first level 126. Or when I met the first character on my server to hit the cap. /sigh. Forums just dont cut it. Its not that I want to read up about the stats of the best people in the game. I want to bump into them as a mid-level. Shake their hands. Wish them well on their next adventure.

:(


Sure, but you can't expect that lvl 126 to feel like strolling around your hometown. I didn't mean go to the forums for everything you want to see...but if you found out on the forums what the gear and craziness was gonna be like, and read all the conversations between high lvl players as they joked about what they did the night before, etc...you would be fulfilled. You would then work hard to lvl up so you could hang out with said individuals.
Having them come back to starter villages for no reason is just an unneeded timesink when they could be doing something more constructive with thier time. Not all feel this way, and that's awesome! Diversity is great. But you shouldn't be upset that not everyone would want to go back, just because it is something that would be important to you.

Personally, it would be a huge pain in the butt to have to run back to my starter village anytime i needed to learn something from a trainer or something...or to hold auctions, or go shopping from vendors, or W/E. I'd like the option of running back if I feel like it, and I like the option of things scaling as I travel, so everything I will need is closer. If I FEEL like strolling around my newb town I'm gonna go do it. And if I don't FEEL like it, then i won't.

:D

It is choices like these that make it more immersive than a bunch of high lvls standing around your newb area because they had to.

-Eclipse

[Skarlath]

Sure, but you can't expect that lvl 126 to feel like strolling around your hometown. I didn't mean go to the forums for everything you want to see...but if you found out on the forums what the gear and craziness was gonna be like, and read all the conversations between high lvl players as they joked about what they did the night before, etc...you would be fulfilled. You would then work hard to lvl up so you could hang out with said individuals.
Having them come back to starter villages for no reason is just an unneeded timesink when they could be doing something more constructive with thier time. Not all feel this way, and that's awesome! Diversity is great. But you shouldn't be upset that not everyone would want to go back, just because it is something that would be important to you.

Personally, it would be a huge pain in the butt to have to run back to my starter village anytime i needed to learn something from a trainer or something...or to hold auctions, or go shopping from vendors, or W/E. I'd like the option of running back if I feel like it, and I like the option of things scaling as I travel, so everything I will need is closer. If I FEEL like strolling around my newb town I'm gonna go do it. And if I don't FEEL like it, then i won't.

:D

It is choices like these that make it more immersive than a bunch of high lvls standing around your newb area because they had to.

-Eclipse

I still dislike forum communities once the game has gone live. Everything should happen ingame! It just isnt as good reading some posts by some high levels than it is to bump into a few. Spy them from a distance and casually walk past whilst eavesdropping. :)

Making people go back to somewhere where they have nothing to do, just so they can train, Or repair perhaps, is just silly and annoying. What should be done is that there might be a level 25 dungeon outside a town you used to hunt near at level 10. Or level 70s might be led back to a level 30ish town as part of a story arc to adventure into a particular location. As a level 30 hunting nearby, you might see this castle but never be able to get near it because of the high level guards. Then you would see heroic level 70s sporting amazing armour and weapons, throwing off fantastic moves fighting their way inside. You would be in awe. :)

[Azuin]

Because I'm in a very weird mood today, and because I'm.. very.. funny.. (my mom tells me so), I would like to say the following:

I'm very bummed out that this post wasn't about poop. :)

[Volkier]

Personally I feel that the restrictions, caps, locks etc. are the worsed aspect of the game. (I do not mean reasonable caps like damage etc.) Personally, I want to be able to 'escape' the real world into an alternative reality of an online world. (I am pretty sure a lot of people feel the same way). And whereas it is the imagination that makes this world unique, it should still abide the basic laws of reality which would make it feel and seem real at the same time.

By that, I mean it would not make sense that you would not be able to go into a city just because you have achieved higher level, or that you will not be able to 'loot' your enemy just because he was too low for you.

A perfect MMORPG would have no limits as to what one can do, providing it is physically possible within the on-line world. And although there is no such thing as 100% perfect, one should make it their destiny, their goal in life to strive for it.

Leave the restrictions behind in the past! Break the chains that bind imagination! Don't narrow the vision to prevent the "what if's"; for NOTHING is impossible, and thus it must be made!