Repair Bills are rather ridiculous

[Apostle]

I have been waiting a bit to post anything on this but I did not see anything addressing this issue in the lastest patch notes.

Currently, I am a lvl 34 paladin. In a group environment when my gear gets to around 20 to 25% durability I can expect to pay on average of around 20 to 25 silver for repairs. Even in a group setting and picking up more than my fair share of vendor trash loot, you are lucky to get 15 to 20 silver. Sure, I could probably loot even more and be ok, but all the other group members should not be forced to pass up vendor items because of this.

Solo play is even worse. I went out the other day and soloed for about 3 and half hours. I picked up around 9 silver in vendor trash and had about 14s in repairs.

I recently had a great couple of groups and we plowed through some quests which ended up netting me a few gold. I was up to almost 6 gold total. After about 2 to 3 days of playing Im down to just under 5 and still falling solely due to repair costs. Its nuts.


*/em looks at all the text above*
Now that I have successfully beaten the dead horse into the ground, hopefully someone will see this and throw up a white flag and beg for some relief on our behalf. (I believe clerics are hurting in this department as well)


/em hands out a collection plate for the Save a Paly Foundation



Apostolos

[Ladon]

I'm starting to think durability itself is ridiculous. It's a nice idea in practice and makes sense that items decay with use, but it's really starting to interfere with my enjoyment of the game. Even with the recent bug fix, the rate of decay is still far too much. I still can't spend more than a few hours tanking through a dungeon without equipment durability becoming an issue. This simple fact that I have to think to myself "I hope this dungeon is short enough so my equipment can make it" is stupid.

Do they really expect me to keep multiple sets of equipment on myself when I have a hard enough time affording one decent set of armor and the attached repair costs? Am I expected to get TWO of every powerful/rare item I find so I have a backup midway though a dungeon?

If durability of items is to be kept in, the rate of decay needs to be heavily reduced. I'm talking DAYS of real-time tanking before needing to repair an item, not hours. I'm sick of having to hang close to towns to repair and I'm absolutely sick of having to break up groups because I am no longer able to tank because of broken gear.

[Llira]

Durability is a huge issue is for tanks, and it really sucks. I love tanking, I love tanking on my paladin, but I'm at a point where I can't afford to go on any more dungeon runs (Tomb of lord tsang level atm), simply due to the insane repair costs. Usually my gear will be close to 0% dura when we're around halfway/two-thirds in, with 0 deaths and having repaired just before I went in.

This can't be right.


I started a caster (psi) because I'm sick of being dead broke. At least I can farm cash with her and maybe sustain my paladin's repair bills o.O
This can't be intended though.. it really really can't.

[DrK]

I have been waiting a bit to post anything on this but I did not see anything addressing this issue in the lastest patch notes.

Currently, I am a lvl 34 paladin. In a group environment when my gear gets to around 20 to 25% durability I can expect to pay on average of around 20 to 25 silver for repairs. Even in a group setting and picking up more than my fair share of vendor trash loot, you are lucky to get 15 to 20 silver. Sure, I could probably loot even more and be ok, but all the other group members should not be forced to pass up vendor items because of this.

Solo play is even worse. I went out the other day and soloed for about 3 and half hours. I picked up around 9 silver in vendor trash and had about 14s in repairs.

I recently had a great couple of groups and we plowed through some quests which ended up netting me a few gold. I was up to almost 6 gold total. After about 2 to 3 days of playing Im down to just under 5 and still falling solely due to repair costs. Its nuts.


*/em looks at all the text above*
Now that I have successfully beaten the dead horse into the ground, hopefully someone will see this and throw up a white flag and beg for some relief on our behalf. (I believe clerics are hurting in this department as well)


/em hands out a collection plate for the Save a Paly Foundation



Apostolos


I'm having the exact same experience.

Earlier I went into tsangs on my Dreadknight for an hour or two. I was not the tank, or even the off-tank (we had 4 tanks in the group). I was just dishing out as much dps as I could and rarely taking any hits.

I came away with a repair bill in excess of 10 silver with most of my equipment at 0 durability.

There is no way that this is what was intended.

[merpa]

As least even it out among all the members of the group. It's completely unfair that plate wearers get dinged disproportionately.

[Kanevala]

Now that I have successfully beaten the dead horse into the ground, hopefully someone will see this and throw up a white flag and beg for some relief on our behalf. (I believe clerics are hurting in this department as well)

While not quite 34 yet, I feel the costs at 30 just as much, and have felt it for the past 10 levels quite significantly. My income is outweighed by my repair costs, and if I don't take a timeout to farm some cash, I won't break even over a longer period of time. Quests/cash drops isn't sufficient, a lot of the items that drops from trash drops so often they are not worth anything other then as merchant fodder.

Granted the Gelenia server is overpopulated, but still.

[Apostle]

As least even it out among all the members of the group. It's completely unfair that plate wearers get dinged disproportionately.

For the love of all things holy, please no haha. The small sympathy factor I currently am able to milk out of those who group with me are all that is keeping me afloat.

<This is me thanking all those who look the other way as I greedily pick up a bunch of stuff or just hand me 5-10s at the end of the night> hehe.

[budershank]

Devs are away of the issue though it hasn't really been mentioned lately!

[Nargroth]

I spent near 2 hours yesterday hunting at Achatlan Lair (the spider cave outside Veskals Exchange on Thestra).

I'm a level 15 warrior, and I was tanking for the most part. Before I went to the cave with the group I repaired all my stuff to 100%.

Through those near two hours we were pulling steadily, and making good progress, killing mostly 14-16 three and four dots.

After close to 2 hours and given, I did have a death, but I didn't summon my gear to the shrine so it shouldn't take an extra durability hit.. anyways... all of my armor was down to 40%.

Which means that if we had kept going for another good hour and a half, I'd be pretty much naked. Not very fun at all. Especially not when the rest of the group are all mostly walking out with their durability near flawless.

I got quite frustrated, not so much because it's overly expensive to repair at my level, but because the rate of decay means I might have to bail out of the group when we're going good to repair, or I have to start supplementing with my spare gear which I usually reserve for CR's when those are needed.

That experience on top of the removal of leap attack made me just go on a strike, and now I'm most likely either making an alt with some fun skills or just crafting for the whole double exp weekend : (

Defensive fighters, and warriors in particular, have so few things that are really fun, as in fluff/amusement value. Other's get cloudwalk, evacs, summoning, pets, run buffs and whatmore. All we get is smash the mob or tank the mob... now smash the mob is severely hampered.. and tanking, well, we do that great, but how much can you tank when your armor is hammered to dust at least once, if not twice, through a good session one evening.

And with the exp weekend comming, everyone will be wanting to do prolonged dungeon crawling to get the most out of the exp bonus from the 4 dots and the weekend boost... I wonder how many times, and how much silver, I'll have to spend repairing just to keep up : (

[Shawnsan]

Very frustrating that this is still occurring despite it being an ID'd issue two patches ago.

ESPECIALLY given the fact that this impacts THREE classes not just one.

[yarilo]

Let's go on a strike! Let's not tank for the next few days :)

[Vyvian Vycious]

1. Repair costs are way too high for the rate at which items decay.
2. You can buy a repair bot for 100 coins in the Arena at Seamist (I think that's the name of it). Good luck farming those coin drops though. They are no longer tradeable, probably good to keep goldfarmers from exploiting.
3. Forgetting 1 & 2, decay rates are still too high.

The nice thing, even if your equipment is broken, it doesn't go into your limited bag space and take up room you need to vender loot.

[Napolleon]

think the bot is a one time use @@!

[Zeratuul]

I have to agree. Repair bills are totally rediculous for tanks. And as you said, I loot a little more then the rest of the group and still its really not enough, I make maybe 5s as profit after repair? I read a post a few weeks ago (cannot find it now) from a dev (whoever it is in charge of defensive fighters) that said they thought they had fixed the decay rate for defensive fighters but he was wrong and that they are still having issues with it...so I am hoping for a fix soon, or at least TAKE OUT armor deterioration if you can't get it to work right...

[hawnz]

take it out. crafters already make a butt ton more coin than adventurers anyhow. if you want us to keep buying their stuff, how about not making the game force us into poverty just through general game mechanics? house? HAH! boat? HAAAH!

this only promotes gold buying from farmers.

[Iskiab]

I agree 100%. Item decay is way too high atm and needs to be cut in half. I'm an armorer so that's how I can afford to keep playing. If I didn't tradeskill I don't think I could afford the repair bills every night and would have to shelve my tank until it's fixed. I easilly lose over 5 silver per night at level 24.

[merpa]

Very frustrating that this is still occurring despite it being an ID'd issue two patches ago.

ESPECIALLY given the fact that this impacts THREE classes not just one.

4 classes, clerics seem to be hit pretty hard by this, too.

[Unxpekted]

Im a level 19 DK, and I have been watching my repair bills get higher and higher (As I level) with growing concern. I do not believe they should be removed entirely, as I feel that they are a part of the class choice I made when I rolled a tank. I do believe that it should not be so costly that I am forced to farm to pay for repair costs incurred after grouping for a few hours. Perhaps a cap at level 20 (or higher, just an arbitrary number I threw out there) to keep costs down. As your character levels the percentage of your funds that would have to be allocated to repairing gear would then go down. Just a thought, but something should be done about this.

[grape]

My name is grape, and I approve of this message. Lower repair costs! Less taxation.


Grape in '08.

[irislich]

Was hoping they'd get a fix in for this. I'm only a 23 drk at the moment, so it's just now starting to get absurd. I was asked by a low level stranger for some help with a quest and part of the way through it occured to me that it was going to cost me a fair bit in repairs when i was done.

Thats pretty bad and really not helping anyone. My only real question is this:

What would be the down-side to removing item decay all together from the live servers until the test server is up and they can get it "working as intended"?

~irislich~

[Zemm]

What would be the down-side to removing item decay all together from the live servers until the test server is up and they can get it "working as intended"?

~irislich~
Way too many happy customers.

[hawnz]

it's plain and simple a purposeful money sink. that's all it's in game for, and i'm pretty sure even brad would admit to that. the problem tho is the disparity between "spheres". adventurers already are on the bottom of the totem poll when it comes to the amount of income they can get from the current infrequent and low-return vendor fodder we sometimes get. so unless we want to sit somewhere and farm named for loot (which is frowned upon by devs!), actually seeing a positive gain after constantly repairing our gear is very difficult.

keep in mind that horses, houses and ships are supposed to be a big part of this game. i'll be keeping my level 10 horse for a looong time i think, and house/boat aren't even a long term goal at this point.

[Ellestil]

I see very nice crafted armor for sale all the time. Listed at 3+ gold. And it usually sits there a long time. I wonder if the crafters of rare items are having a hard time finding paying customers, and if they have to cut their profits down to even sell the item off.

I know this, by the time I can afford a 7g armor peice, I will have leveled beyond it and found an equivalent dropped item of a higher level. At level 25, killing level 22-27 mobs, which if they drop coin is 25c, or if they drop body parts maybe total 1-2s a stack, by the time I spend 8+ silver to repair, I break even or make a very small profit.

When a tank groups he usually takes a loss after repairing. People wonder where the tanks are, they are trying to scrape up money for repairs lol. At this rate, pretty much only crafters or "farmers" will make enough money to enjoy things like ships, houses, guild houses, flying mounts, etc. If at 50, you kill a mob a he drops 1-2silver change, and ships are going for 50gold, well, you can do the math. That's one long grind ahead of you.

It's exactly this kind of crawling income that opens the doors to plat farmers. Just ask anyone who played FFXI. Money was extremely hard to come by without crafting or named camping. The demand was high, and the PF's were more than happy to come fill that "need".

[Nargroth]

The reason for item degrading is simple... it's a moneysink who's purpose is to add to, not remove, but add to the reduction of inflation in the game.

As it is though, it's hitting tanks particularly bad. Reducing the durability hit, making the armor last longer before requiring repairs, or reducing the cost of the actual repairing itself is needed.

I'd be much in favour of the former, as this will allow me to stay in a dungeon for more than 2.5 hours before I have to go fix up all my gear again.

[Shawnsan]

I am a level 23 DRK and I have 1 gold to my name. I craft and diplom too.

I buy gear to improve myself. And yet people that do not have these repair costs are talking about what they want to do for their SECOND or THIRD tier mount.

Some have even bought land.

This is RIDICULOUS the disparity.
And don't tell me I should CHARGE people to Tank for them as the DPS crowd doesn't CHARGE to do DPS and the healers don't charge to do HEALS..

I shouldn't feel pressured to BEG for extra trash drops to break even.

[Zikkar]

It needs to be removed but Brad and the Devs had to admit they were wrong so propalbe wont happen. Notice they have not even commented on this thread. This is Silius child as he talked Brad into it and he is as stubborn as they come. So get used to paying out the ass to repair your gear.

[Ladon]

It needs to be removed but Brad and the Devs had to admit they were wrong so propalbe wont happen. Notice they have not even commented on this thread. This is Silius child as he talked Brad into it and he is as stubborn as they come. So get used to paying out the ass to repair your gear.


If they really think the repair cost it where it is at --fine, though I won't be very happy with the current cost. But for sanities sake, could they please do a simple modification on the rate of decay? Multiply the rate of decay and cost by 4 so I can adventure for a solid 8-12 hours before having to trek back to a town rather than the current 2-3 hours. They still get their current money sink without breaking up my groups every few hours.

[Ulfgar]

They really need to do something about this. As a warrior I find it extremely hard to raise any cash. My psionicist makes cash at a better rate due to repairing far less. In general I think adventuring needs to be made into a more profitable career. I bought Vanguard to make money the old fashioned way.... go out, kill things and take their stuff.(which at the moment isn't terribly profitable, even without decay) I did not buy Vanguard to be forced to craft to have any spare coin.

Ulfgar

[RaytheonGryfth]

I was thinking it would make sense to have durability, the resistance to damage, as part of an armor characteristic. Then light armor would decay fastest, medium mid-level, and heavy armor would decay slowest on a per hit basis. Obviously as the level increased the armor would get hardier. That way heavy armor could take far more hits than a light armor of the same level.

I like the idea of decay, but as a DreadKnight I am becoming broke as I increase in levels.

[Desdemona]

"Working as intended"

Just like Crafting complications.

[Butters]

Item decay is DEBILITATING and way beyond what I have seen in any other MMOs. The concept is correct and valid, the rate and cost needs to be looked at again.

Instead of preventing mudflation, there is actual crazy deflation going as people start grouping more and are reaching higher levels. People cant afford 1gp for even the best of gear and prices are dropping on stuff on a weekly basis. Yard trash isnt even covering costs so people are going into debt essentially and borrowing on money they make/made in other game areas.

We need a Central Bank Committee like a Federal Reserve with player input to analyze what the numbers should be it. I have gear that literally goes to near 0% durability with less than 60 minutes of game play.

[xirxx]

I generally lose 2-5 silver when I am done fighting. This does not include any thing I might sell on the market (if I get any).

[Theroc]

I was thinking it would make sense to have durability, the resistance to damage, as part of an armor characteristic. Then light armor would decay fastest, medium mid-level, and heavy armor would decay slowest on a per hit basis. Obviously as the level increased the armor would get hardier. That way heavy armor could take far more hits than a light armor of the same level.

I like the idea of decay, but as a DreadKnight I am becoming broke as I increase in levels.

As a 22 Pally I'm suffering the same problems. Realized I was tanking with a 0% bp last night after a few hours with one death, the bp is soulbound, so no extra lost there. I had immediately repaired before the dungeon. Have a set group with very little dps so at time I might tank multiple mobs for 3-4 minutes during a pull, which probably exagerrates the problem.

That's just ridicoulous, even if the repair costs weren't prohibitive, it severeley interferes with the fun of the game for a group to have to wait for me to repair every 3 hours or so.

Repair costs should only become a factor when you are dying over and over in my opinion. I quoted Ray there because it's one of the best suggestions I've seen. Leave cloth as in, halve medium chance to durability hit and one fourth to heavy would be a great starting point.

[Renfail]

Here's the problem as I see it:

When we have a good dungeon to crawl into, what the hell am I supposed to do when armor hits 0% less than an hour and a half into the dungeon and it's a 6+ hour session/crawl? Am I going to need to start carrying around alternate sets of gear just because? I mean, I can understand having backup/situational gear for raids, but for NORMAL grouping? Come ON!

Honestly, it's a hassle. If I don't have a backup/second set (and I shouldnt' need to outside of raids/corpseruns) and we are deep in a dungeon, the only way for me to repair is A) Sacrifice and B) Summon my corpse, eat an exp/further durability loss, lose coin at the merchant repairing and then C) make my way back to my group which is now deep down in dungeon which may or may not have been close to a general merchant, not to mention that a lot of these deep dungeons (VT, Pantheon, Hakrel, RP) are nearly impossible for a warrior to get back into without some form of invisibility due to the amount of mobs at the entrace. So in essence, I'm being told, as a warrior, to suck it up and get used to eating exp losses?

Don't get me wrong. I was/am a HUGE proponent for corpse runs and alternate sets of gear...WITHIN A PROPER SYSTEM!

The reason they changed things to the way they are now (soulbound items, altars, etc) is so that we don't have to do corpse runs and didn't need secondary sets of gear. If we needed secondary sets of gear for normal grouping, why the hell soulbind, other than the convenience of not having to CR for gear....but you take a hell of a hit on summons. So with all of the changes, why are we now being nearly required to have alternative sets of gear for mere single group runs?

Also...I can understand the tanks needing to pay additional fees based upon the fact they take damge...IF the system was based upon damage taken per fight. It's not. Currently it's based upon the usage of your abilities. The hits to your armor are COMPLETELY RANDOM!!! It makes no sense. Logically, if the tank is getting hit, he should take armor decay. If a sorcerer isn't getting hit, then he shouldn't have any armor decay!

I would rather see a system based upon damage taken, and I shouldn't have to be running back to the repair merchant every 90 freaking minutes, because it's ruining the whole dungeon crawl experience. Once a day, maybe, but not this every 90 minutes crap.

It's almost like Sigil is so hell-bent on keeping gold away from gold farmers that they are going to the worst extremeties ever to control the flow of coin within the game. I've NEVER seen money sinks like this in any other game ever before. And the amount of account banning they do before having any actual proof (guilty until proven innocent)...I just feel like Sigil is on some sort of a witch-hunt against any person ever making a decent amount of coin in the game and I think it's crap.

I don't mind paying 5 gold a week on our 50 gold plot. That's fair. It's a decent moneysink. But why the hell do I need to pay 2-3 gold PER NIGHT @ level 30 just for dungeon grinding?

[hawnz]

there's a bunch of items where decay is messed up too. take my cloak for instance. it hits 0% by the time the rest of my gear is around 85%. that's like 20 min of fighting. it's bunlor's cloak of resistance or something like that

[Renfail]

That's what I mean by completely random. Your abilities go off...each time you use an ability each seperate piece of armor has to pass a check. There are varying levels of failure, which can lead to certain pieces wearing out faster than others because they suffered a critical hit by random luck.

It's silly.

Make it damage-related and all pieces decay @ same time.

I'm not asking for an easier game...I am and have been one of the hardline vanbois for the past 2 years I've been playing this game...but there comes a point when tedium isn't fun, and this, for me, is one of those points. This is a serious flaw in the game IMO and needs to be fixed.

[Tybr]

I have been waiting a bit to post anything on this but I did not see anything addressing this issue in the lastest patch notes.

Currently, I am a lvl 34 paladin. In a group environment when my gear gets to around 20 to 25% durability I can expect to pay on average of around 20 to 25 silver for repairs. Even in a group setting and picking up more than my fair share of vendor trash loot, you are lucky to get 15 to 20 silver. Sure, I could probably loot even more and be ok, but all the other group members should not be forced to pass up vendor items because of this.

Solo play is even worse. I went out the other day and soloed for about 3 and half hours. I picked up around 9 silver in vendor trash and had about 14s in repairs.

I recently had a great couple of groups and we plowed through some quests which ended up netting me a few gold. I was up to almost 6 gold total. After about 2 to 3 days of playing Im down to just under 5 and still falling solely due to repair costs. Its nuts.


*/em looks at all the text above*
Now that I have successfully beaten the dead horse into the ground, hopefully someone will see this and throw up a white flag and beg for some relief on our behalf. (I believe clerics are hurting in this department as well)


/em hands out a collection plate for the Save a Paly Foundation



Apostolos



OMG If repairs cost this much I'm going to broke for months.....

[Sru]

Very frustrating that this is still occurring despite it being an ID'd issue two patches ago.

ESPECIALLY given the fact that this impacts THREE classes not just one.

And Clerics. My bills are ahead of income from trash and coin. Only selling on the exchange keeps me afloat

[CFrosty]

At first I didn't really agree with taking durability hit on your armor when you're not being hit, but what if you are drawing on the magical abilities of your armor to do combat? Such as focus on your armor. That could wear it down. Besides the fact that casters would get rich if they were never taking durability damage, because in my groups atleast they aren't getting hit.

[Llira]

At first I didn't really agree with taking durability hit on your armor when you're not being hit, but what if you are drawing on the magical abilities of your armor to do combat? Such as focus on your armor. That could wear it down. Besides the fact that casters would get rich if they were never taking durability damage, because in my groups atleast they aren't getting hit.

Sure casters take a durability hit, but the decay is much slower than for tanks - or plate wearers in general it seems, with clerics saying they suffer the same issue. At least on my psi (level 22, pala is 20, so it's very comparable) I can go for like a whole day without repairing, but on my pally I can go maybe 2 hours of intensive killing.
Seems to me plate durability decay is bugged in a baaad way.

[Krelyan]

This is outta hand. The hardest hit are those with the better armor too, which doesn't even make sense. I'm being penalized for trying to improve my AC, which as a tank I should? Wth?

[jedilabrat]

Honestly it was a horrible choice to add in beta and it is still a horrible game mechanic to have in live. They so obviously can not fix the code they added into the game so REMOVE THE DAMN THING TILL YOU CAN ACTUALLY FIX IT TO A POINT IT IS NOT TAKING FROM THE FUN OF THE GAME.

[Heyyaku]

i have to agree. as a lv24 warrior, i cant get any money since im not breaking even on my dungeon crawls. the only way i have been supporting myself is the cash from leveling blacksmithing to 25 on WOs. its totaly crazy that im slowly going broke and what....my rouge friend already has 5g to his name. totally not fair on my end. all that i ask is that we tanks should get a fraction of the duribility hit so we can atleast last longer in dungeons or even save some cash for new gear to keep us on top or right on our game.

[evilfud]

I have bugged this and will post it here. at lvl 42 i have lost over 1g per day on repair costs and this is AFTER selling the vender fodder and any rare item i may get. The repair is normally around 60s with armor lasting about 3 hours YES 3 HOURS! durability should last at LEAST 8-12 hours and really about 1 in game week. I have gone broke and had to borrow money from my static group because i cant afford the repairs anymore. I know they want a money sink but this has to be fixxed and FAST. I personally want it removed alltogether i enjoyed beta alot when it wasnt it even said how nice it was not having to repair.


Fud - Shidreth - Blades Of Wrath - 42 Warrior

[Twoofus]

The funny thing is, that people will quit the game over crap like this, yet the devs keep their mouths shut on the topic. Working as intended my ass.

They have to get off those high clouds and start responding to the problems with the game as it stands now, or they better have a HUGE plan waiting on their desks for when the game is "finished" so they can attract many many new customers.

They have a nice little game here, which could be really fun.
But as it stands now, only the die hards will keep going, because all normal players will sooner or later "have had enough" of all the crap the game throws at you (repair costs, zoning issues, hickup deaths, bugged rezzes and XP loss, unrecoverable corpses and 7% loss for summoning them, super lag with lots of players on screen).

Repair costs should be disabled untill it's REALLY fixed on the test server, and then it can be rolled out to live.

[Kurron Nye]

The funny thing is, that people will quit the game over crap like this, yet the devs keep their mouths shut on the topic. Working as intended my ass.

They have to get off those high clouds and start responding to the problems with the game as it stands now, or they better have a HUGE plan waiting on their desks for when the game is "finished" so they can attract many many new customers.

They have a nice little game here, which could be really fun.
But as it stands now, only the die hards will keep going, because all normal players will sooner or later "have had enough" of all the crap the game throws at you (repair costs, zoning issues, hickup deaths, bugged rezzes and XP loss, unrecoverable corpses and 7% loss for summoning them, super lag with lots of players on screen).

Repair costs should be disabled untill it's REALLY fixed on the test server, and then it can be rolled out to live.

I know Im pissing in the wind by mentioning this but ya know the devs have a pretty big list of stuff to work on, and right now stuff like game performance and stability is on the top of the list.


Its not because they 'are sittying on lofty clouds', they are slow to respond its because they are buried under tons of work and that work does NOT get done if they waste lots of time posting on forums. (unlike so many in here who are wasting their employer's time by posting while at work).

But yes I agree that the cost of repair outpaces the rate in which funds are gained, and that is bad, and I agree that yes, the durability system should be disabled until suh time as it can be tuned to match the real rate of monetary gain.

[Renfail]

We are level 33-35 in our current static grp for the MoP questlines. I master loot all coin, and I hand out repair costs at the end. From Friday night to Sunday evening we played non-stop with only 2 breaks of 4 hours apiece to sleep. We earned, above and beyond repair costs, a total of 5 gold, between 6 people, selliing only to vendor.

Casters average repair bill : 4-8s

Offensive fighters average repair bill : 10-12s

The Warrior and Cleric's average repair bill : 25-30s.

This is repairing every 2-3 hours depending. Each time it's a 25-30 silver ding. Each time the rest of the party is still at 70-80% on armor durability and they only need a few silver to repair.

Look, I know money sinks are necessary, but this armor decay is just stupid. It's not the cost of the repair that sucks. I can agree with paying 25-30 silver to repair my level 30+ armor from 10%ish to full....but not every TWO hours, or THREE if I'm LUCKY. Groups cannot reliably dungeon grind with this functionality. Most of the really good premier dungeons can take HOURS to crawl into, and when you have to leave to repair your armor ever 2-3 hours...it's just stupid. Right now, as the warrior, at level 33, and my wife at 33 as a cleric, we are spending an average of 2 gold a day between us for repair bills, compared to the 35-50 silver totals of the other people in our party. This, compared to the paltry income we are making from vendor trash, is unacceptable.

When upkeep on a house is 5 gold a week for the mid-range plot (50 gold), and your personal repair bills are shooting up over 1 gold a day, plus training fees and all the other money-sinks in this game, you really have to be making 15 gold a week at level 30 JUST to make enough to scrape by. I've played this game into the mid-30's in beta, and I know the money income increases as you level up...it always does...but at present, it's virtually impossible to earn any coin, period. The ONLY reason our guild groups earn coin is because they are Master Looted, and we are not earning that much beyond what we need for the basic bills of the game. If people were to rely on pickup groups, I don't know how they could survive.

As it is now, the only way some of our guild members are earning money is through solo quests up in Southwatch, RV, and other places, where they can earn a few silver on their own during the work week. Currently the ONLY people making ANY worthwhile money in the game is crafters. Crafters always make more than adventurers but in this game even moreso because...crafters don't have armor decay costs! It's just not right.

It's not a game breaking feature. Our guild is having a blast regardless. But this decay thing is annoying as hell, and it is definetely a mechanic we would love to see either fixed appropriately, or removed completely.

[Ratama]

Level 43 Warrior here.

Misc. Heroic and Rare equipment, mostly level-appropriate save for a couple of crap pieces I haven't had the luck to upgrade.

It takes between two to three hours for me to go from fully repaired to completely broken (100% -> 0%) with steady killing. The repair bill? Just around 65 Silver Pieces. I can forget about breaking even after a day of adventuring, unless I'm extremely lucky on drops (and price them low enough for people to feel they're worth buying), so I'm forced to rely on my groupmates to fork over some of their money to cover for my repair bill. Basically, I'm borrowing money just so I can play the game.

Now, I understand the intended reasoning behind implementing Item Decay, and I'm not saying that I'm against it. However, this issue has been raised _several_ times, has been confirmed and acknowledged _several_ times but has now continued through several patches without any further attempts to fix it? Don't even bring up the laughable attempt a couple of cycles back; that 'fix' actually made it worse for some people.

As has already been mentioned, Sigil has plenty of stuff on their plate and I won't make the presumption to state that item decay, in it's current state, should be priority #1. That said, it seems to me that there is a very simple temporary solution which should've been employed a long time ago:

Remove Item Decay untill you get it working right.

Is it intended that we beg and plead with our guildmates and groupmates to help cover for our repair costs? Are we supposed to rely on Zaraj Arena repair bots, so that we can delve into the premier dungeons, without having to evacuate/recall to repair every 2hours? Thank you, but no thanks. You've had plenty of time to look into this, and if you'll admit to not having ample amount of time to do something about it now, then remove this bug, which cripples plate wearers immensely, and you'll have all the time in the world to look at it later.

Don't ask for more patch cycles, don't make any more half-assed attempts at balancing it while it's on Live servers and don't bloody ask us to be patient; fix this shit, and fix it now - or remove the thing altogether.

[Shihan]

I'm only at level 29 at the moment but already I spend 30s+ per repair. I don't have a static group ( I do have a static Blood Mage companion though that I roll with so he understands my pain a bit ) so I'm lucky to break even even w/ my blood mage friend letting me sell extra named drops.

This really needs to be fixed. Everyone else I know is buying armor/weapons ( non-heavy plate of course ), next rank mounts, etc... I have < 1g usually unless I get REALLY lucky and get 3-4 yellow drops that I can sell on the same day.

[Bubbels]

First what is the deal with clerics getting lumped into heavy durabilty use? Why not other healers? And furthermore, if armor in general looses durability only after being hit... Then as a cleric why are you having such large repair costs? Sounds like an issue with your group! :p

I play a DK with my wife who plays a blood mage. We have been duoing these characters for the most part. I take at least 90% of the hits, and probably 80% of the hits when we group. I know my role as a tank and do everything I can to maintain agro.

It seems that the only time I gain a little bit in cash is when I do quest turn ins. She is at 1.5 gold and I am at 70 silver. We also split loot rather consistantly so thats deffinatley not an issue.

I agree that durability needs to be fixed. Heck, considering that it was up in the air in beta and sort of a last minute addition, I would be fine with it going away. I mean its great that we are trying to get a sense of realism, but its not like these characters need to sleep or eat and drink to stay alive.

One other small detail. If they are going to keep repairs in the game, I hope they add a REPAIR ALL button soon. ;)

[J Hoyt]

For people that are being hindered by huge repair costs, are you using gear that's much higher level than you? That stuff will apparently decay much faster. My gear isn't top of the line but I do my job fine and planned repairs aren't more than 2.5 silver (higher if I had to summon). 23 Paladin by the way.

[Tharn]

Lvl 33 pally here. Repair = suck.

/signed

[Jhaerel]

This should be handled just like real life durability...

All types of equipment should have a default deterioration rate depending on what it is... Cloth should deteriorate faster, leather slower than cloth, wood slower, and metal the slowest of all. Think of it similar to real life items and you'll see what I mean... a pair of socks will get holes in them far sooner than your shoes, which in turn would deteriorate faster than a pair of high quality metal toed boots. (Not a great example, but you see what I mean)... So everything should have it's base deterioration rate depending on it's material, and based on how much you are using it.

So cloth might deteriorate at 5 units per day, leather at 4 units per day, wood at 3 per day, and metal at 2 per day. This is the rate it deteriorates at if you aren't in combat, and if that equipment is not taking damage... This way even crafter's clothing will deteriorate. It could even deteriorate more based on complications in the crafting process (Ahh! My shirt caught on fire! Stupid forge!)

Next, make it so that different types of material mitigate damage differently. Same as in real life. If you hit a cloth shirt with a sword, you're going to cut right through it. It takes damage quickly. If you hit a metal breastplate, you will hear a nice loud clang, and it might have a nick in it.

So given 100 points of dmg from a sword, cloth should take 100 points of deterioration, while metal might only take 10% of that, 10 points of deterioration. This of course would be adjusted by some small random factor.

Finally, make the durability of an item a solid number, similar to SWG... Cloth might have 1000 durability, meaning it can't take much in the way of damage (which it shouldn't, if your tank is doing his job), while plate armor might have a durability of 10,000.

To make it more interesting, make equipment repair kits, so that you can repair your equipment while in a dungeon. Have it so that if an unexperienced person tries to repair an item (ie, not a blacksmith, weaponsmith, or armorsmith (edit: or the type of crafter that MAKES that item, like cloth armor)) the maximum durability of the item takes a random hit (ie, goes from 10,000 to 9,500). If a blacksmith repairs the item, he has a random chance to repair it better than unexperienced person (ie, he can get it to go from 10,000 to 9,750, instead of 9,500), while a weaponsmith repairing a weapon or an armorsmith repairing armor has a random chance to do a perfect repair, that is not affecting the maximum durabilty.

I could see this opening up whole new markets... People would become armorsmiths/weaponsmiths just so they could sell their repair services in cities. In a dungeon, a tank could hand off his breastplate to a sorcerer who happens to be an armorsmith, to have it repaired right there. Crafted equipment could have higher durability based on it's level (A,B,C,D) or if additional components were used in it's construction (Metal hardener?). I always appreciate services that are rendered from one player to another, rather than always going to an NPC for those services. I remember the days of SWG, when you would buy armor from one vendor as opposed to another, just because that armorsmith somehow got the durability higher with the exact same stats.

A system such as I've just described is far more player driven, and much more real...

As for the original comments, I'm a 20 DK, and I have yet to break 1 gold... My repairs are definitely coming out about the same as my profits. How are we supposed to afford the fine crafted goods in this game? Or a house? Or a boat?

J

[Kyzan]

Dear god I have posted this Multiple times ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.. repeating. ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.


Pay attention fellow platewearers. There is no damn system that makes any one thing decay faster. I have had item 5 levels lower than me decay faster its totally random what item gets dinged. TOTALLY RANDOM.

Thank you for your ears :)

[Bubbels]

Dear god I have posted this Multiple times ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.. repeating. ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.


Pay attention fellow platewearers. There is no damn system that makes any one thing decay faster. I have had item 5 levels lower than me decay faster its totally random what item gets dinged. TOTALLY RANDOM.

Thank you for your ears :)

I think the misconception is that its not that they decay faster, its that the higher level items cost more to repair. So when you go to repair you look at the cost and notice that your chest plate that is 8 levels higher than you is taking the big toll to repair. When in fact if you look at the actual durability before repair you will notice that all your gear is going to be within 10 points of each other.

[Matuse]

Crafters always make more than adventurers but in this game even moreso because...crafters don't have armor decay costs!

Crafter armor assuredly takes damage a lot slower than adventuring gear (and is cheaper to repair), but let's put a stop to your blatant falsehood right now: Crafting gear most definitely does take damage and needs to be repaired at regular intervals.

[hawnz]

Crafter armor assuredly takes damage a lot slower than adventuring gear (and is cheaper to repair), but let's put a stop to your blatant falsehood right now: Crafting gear most definitely does take damage and needs to be repaired at regular intervals.

my cloak still hits 0% around the time ALL the rest of my gear hits ~85%, so it's not based on level. some items just are bugged.

[piknik2]

There's so many other types of money sinks they could have put into this game; just remove the ever broken durability concept already!

[Taiga]

As a level 40 Dreadknight, I find myself having to recall out of group dungeons after about an hour and a half of normal paced fighting for repairs. I call to repair when about half of my gear is broken, and each repair costs me about 60-70 silver. Between calling out and running to town, and running back to the dungeon to be summoned by the healer, a repair run takes roughly 20 minutes, depending on where we're fighting. This means that about 20% of my game time is spent REPAIRING rather than playing. If I play 6 hours, that's a full hour spent repairing. Compare this to a medium or light armor wearer who will need at most one repair run in the same 6 hour period.

[Zikkar]

Still no Dev reply here yet i see how sad.

[piknik2]

Still no Dev reply here yet i see how sad.

They said they were tracking a problem with warriors and such taking extra durability damage a few patches ago; not sure if it made it out in one of those.

Now if only that appropriate armour crafter type in my party could just repair my gear, that would be a nice feature. Currently though it's run back to town ever couple hours and spend more than you made in the dungeon.. sigh.

[Shawnsan]

There is still no mention of this issue being fixed in patch notes on test :(

[Shawnsan]

:o Still not fixed and I am still many Gold (I have none) behind my friends who are NOT tanks. Oh and I am level 28, closing on level 29 and couldn't afford the t2 horse, and am unlikely to be able to afford the t3 horse.

I'd take up crafting or harvesting for the money but apparently those activities ding your durability too!!! Sweet jeebus is it too much to ask for the clothes we ARE NOT WEARING, to not be destroyed by our doing things.

(Example: Me In real life ..Bye honey I am going off to work now! .. Bye dear see you soon she says. I go to work and my Casual clothes which my wife is wearing for a nightshirt TEAR IN HALF because I had the temerity to you know do something while I wasn't wearing them)

They talk about all the shiny things they may one day buy with all the money they are saving.

I would really like to see a refund of all repair costs to tanks across the board.

:cry:

[Iskiab]

Durability has been decreased a bit, but nowhere near enough.

I was grinding in VT today. You go down stairs and then we took a left. We were exploring. By the time we'd cleared the left side I was at 0%. Time to repair and the entire group had to evac. I then went to repair (10 mins back and forth) to go down again. We went straight and then through a side door. We were exploring again and before we were done.... 0%. Time to cut the trip short again. Everyone I was grouped with was frustrated with the state of the game and wanted me to get a second set of gear.

That brought me to the 2nd downside of durability. The repair cost. I just looked. From the entire weekend of xping, including selling vendor loot, I lost 1.4gp. 1.4gp down the drain. That's ridiculous. I'm an armorer so I'm subsidizing my adventuring, but I was chatting with a guildy and he's richer then me without tradeskilling. Isn't something fundamentally wrong when someone goes through the same experience and one comes out 1.4gp down and someone else in the same group comes out ahead over 1gp?

This seriously needs to get fixed asap.

[Vauhs]

Ther are repair bots sold for tokens earned at some areana out on qualia. Forget the name but I saw the gnome selling them. Also don't know how it works, could be a 1 time use sort of thing. Anywho, ther has to be somthing done about this or when raid content is put in the game, raids just won't be possible... end of story. Expect a fix of some sort.

[Shawnsan]

Ther are repair bots sold for tokens earned at some areana out on qualia. Forget the name but I saw the gnome selling them. Also don't know how it works, could be a 1 time use sort of thing. Anywho, ther has to be somthing done about this or when raid content is put in the game, raids just won't be possible... end of story. Expect a fix of some sort.

That's nice and all but doesn't address the problem of tanks getting SCREWED for their repair..

[Vauhs]

Can take the transporter from Khal to Strandan. From the Strandan docks you head South'ish up the hill to the areana. Inside is

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Dubonic/repairmerch.jpg

Wich gives

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Dubonic/repairomatic.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Dubonic/repairomatic2k.jpg


That may be of some use to the people that find having a second set of armor a burden and don't wana cut their group short after 2hours. Also keep in mind that the higher a peice of gear is over your lvl the faster it busts. I havn't used one of these nor do I know wher to get the coins, but its somthing to think about. Also if anyone else has any info pertaining to how practical this is to a salution ect ect pls do so, thnx...


Vauhs of Khal
33DK

[Renfail]

I think the intended use is:
Repair Kits from your local Artificer. Support your local crafter or go broke on repair bills.

All this will do is end up making the Artificer's rich, the tanks poor, and doesn't remove any coin from the game itself. Not a very good workaround IMO.

And a second set of armor? You think your repair bills are sick now...wait until you have a second set of yellow/orange items that are comparable in stats. 2 gold per day with 1 set of armor? I don't think I really want to be up to 5 gold a day in repair costs when our groups are barely pulling in 3-4 a day in vendor trash.

I'm 36th level. Nearly all of our guild (around 30 active per night) is in the Bounty Hunter gear + most people have at least 2-3 pieces of MoP gear (I have 4 pieces). Nearly every piece of equipment is yellow or orange. I only have a handful of blue items. The repair bill is outrageous. Without using the market, and only selling vendor trash, we are grossing around 2 gold per 8 hour session of grinding while working on the MoP quests. We just finished up part 3 of VT last night. I'm having to repair every 2-3 hours. Each time my repair bill is ghastly. Between my repairs, my wife's repairs on her cleric (which are comparable to mine), and the repair bills of my group-mates, we are LUCKY if we do more than break even. And more than 60% of that coin is going to pay for the Cleric and the Warrior's repair bill.

I know, this is like my 5th post on this topic in this thread, but by God, you think they would fix it by now. If this is working as intended then I'll be a stuck pig, because it's a fricking lousy system. I can understand needing money sinks but good grief....the rate of decay makes it impossible to really advance into dungeons without using strategies that are going to eventually be called exploitive and locked down, and the cost of repairs makes it impossible to use a secondary set of gear because who has the kind of coin necessary to keep 2 full sets of yellow/orange or better gear full up?


TAKE OUT ARMOR DECAY! Make us pay to use teleporters, or something. You guys are creative...you can come up with other intelligent money sinks. But the armor decay money sink is currently NOT WORKING and unless it gets fixed drastically, never will. Take it out until you can get it working right on the test server, or reimburse all of us tanks and heavy-plate-wearing clerics who are spending damn near 1.5-2 gold a DAY in repair bills.

[grape]

I think the intended use is:
Repair Kits from your local Artificer. Support your local crafter or go broke on repair bills.

All this will do is end up making the Artificer's rich, the tanks poor, and doesn't remove any coin from the game itself. Not a very good workaround IMO.

And a second set of armor? You think your repair bills are sick now...wait until you have a second set of yellow/orange items that are comparable in stats. 2 gold per day with 1 set of armor? I don't think I really want to be up to 5 gold a day in repair costs when our groups are barely pulling in 3-4 a day in vendor trash.

I'm 36th level. Nearly all of our guild (around 30 active per night) is in the Bounty Hunter gear + most people have at least 2-3 pieces of MoP gear (I have 4 pieces). Nearly every piece of equipment is yellow or orange. I only have a handful of blue items. The repair bill is outrageous. Without using the market, and only selling vendor trash, we are grossing around 2 gold per 8 hour session of grinding while working on the MoP quests. We just finished up part 3 of VT last night. I'm having to repair every 2-3 hours. Each time my repair bill is ghastly. Between my repairs, my wife's repairs on her cleric (which are comparable to mine), and the repair bills of my group-mates, we are LUCKY if we do more than break even. And more than 60% of that coin is going to pay for the Cleric and the Warrior's repair bill.

I know, this is like my 5th post on this topic in this thread, but by God, you think they would fix it by now. If this is working as intended then I'll be a stuck pig, because it's a fricking lousy system. I can understand needing money sinks but good grief....the rate of decay makes it impossible to really advance into dungeons without using strategies that are going to eventually be called exploitive and locked down, and the cost of repairs makes it impossible to use a secondary set of gear because who has the kind of coin necessary to keep 2 full sets of yellow/orange or better gear full up?


TAKE OUT ARMOR DECAY! Make us pay to use teleporters, or something. You guys are creative...you can come up with other intelligent money sinks. But the armor decay money sink is currently NOT WORKING and unless it gets fixed drastically, never will. Take it out until you can get it working right on the test server, or reimburse all of us tanks and heavy-plate-wearing clerics who are spending damn near 1.5-2 gold a DAY in repair bills.

I"m a cleric and I am FAR FAR behind the line with the rest of the guild with money. My repair costs are through the roof with heavy armor. Just about everyone in my range (lvl 27-29) is on T2 mounts. I've got 30 silver to my name. The loot drops are pure crap and chance.

[Thanood]

Wait, artificers can make repair kits? This is great, let there evolve some competition, and you'll see (prices falling for example).

If that's the case, I support the idea, because I find it just great to have players create some really useful and necessary things like repair kits. I'm just wondering why I, as a blacksmith, cannot repair my plate armor, but oh well..

You buy repair kits or you spend much more money on vendor repairs. Shoot me, but I like this idea very much.

[Iskiab]

Having artificers make repair items is fine. That works, but it should be for times when you go deep in a dungeon and don't want to cut the trip short. For daily adventuring it doesn't work and you'd need an army of artificers constantly making items to supply a server with repair items.

I think they should start by cutting the item decay in half. Then work down from there until they get it to where they want it. It's that out of wack atm. It has to be half of what it is atm at least as a starting point to make a viable system.

[grape]

Item decay is a waste of time. You should only take a decay hit IF you die. Double hit if you summon corpse.

[Larsay]

I dont mind item decay, I have actually become rather accustom to it any more in games it seems to keep the economy a little more in check; though I do feel that plate should have the lowest chance to getting durability hits, with cloth having the highest chance. My reasoning for this is not just because I am a tank, but rather plate is supposed to be very strong and durable armor. Tanks are also up in the front lines and if doing their job taking the hit 90% of the time. This means in a normal grouping session (this is from experience) you have to either have two tanks so you can switch off when your get hits 0 or near zero, or carry a second set of armor, while the rest of the group is still at around 80% durability and the lowest. I feel med armor users should have slightly better then cloth only because again chain and leather is stronger then cloth, and many offensive fighters take hits (such as bards or monks when pulling). Most cloth classes if the tank is doing their job and the Caster is not going nuts trying to drop an Atomic bomb on the mob rarely get hit at all (with the exception of the bloodmage who does get healer agro sometimes) meaning the should ideally have to repair very rarely.

Anyways that’s just my two cents.

[loftel]

The repair stones - still require you to pay the repair cost, on top of the cost of the stone.

It spawns a little "vendor" that stays up for about 30seconds, and lets you repair, like a normal vendor does.

[Iskiab]

I'm all for money sinks to keep the economy in good condition. What isn't fair is to dump almost all of the money sink on certain classes while others almost never have to repair.

I have to repair 3 times for every time the rogue in my group has to repair.

[Wulfgang]

At L 25 I am now starting to make plans to start carrying two sets of armor. I am already starting to see the pain of the repair costs starting to rise.

I was tanking for one group, I was pulling one at a time, didnt get a bunch of adds and did realitively ok for about 4 hours. Think I made one run for repairs when it was over. However....

The people /cough... rogues who love to try to pull more than one mob at a time and then hide while the tank gets pounded, dont seem to feel the same pain that we do. In less than a half hour after trying to hold aggro on 2-3 mobs, my armor was shot.

I am now concerned after reading this thread if I need to carry 2-3 sets just to stay with the rest of the party.

[Renfail]

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15005

also see the threads origination @

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/683139-post179.html

Bottom line is they are at least CONSIDERING total and complete removal of item repair from the game. This is enough to make me jump and do a little happy dance.

1. Removing the need to repair items. This is a controversial one at Sigil as there are some people who really like the system and worked hard on it. With all due respect to them, I don't care for the system and I don't think I've ever seen someone say they like it in-game or in a post. There are other ways to create money sinks. -- Aradune Mithara

[Shawnsan]

http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15005

also see the threads origination @

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/683139-post179.html

Bottom line is they are at least CONSIDERING total and complete removal of item repair from the game. This is enough to make me jump and do a little happy dance.

1. Removing the need to repair items. This is a controversial one at Sigil as there are some people who really like the system and worked hard on it. With all due respect to them, I don't care for the system and I don't think I've ever seen someone say they like it in-game or in a post. There are other ways to create money sinks. -- Aradune Mithara


They SHOULD and they should also do it as an emergency HOTFIX,,they should ALSO look at the data of the money spent on repairs and HOTFIX all that money to all characters not just tanks..

[Zigurath]

Dear god I have posted this Multiple times ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.. repeating. ITEM LEVEL DOES NOT INCREASE DECAY.


Pay attention fellow platewearers. There is no damn system that makes any one thing decay faster. I have had item 5 levels lower than me decay faster its totally random what item gets dinged. TOTALLY RANDOM.

Thank you for your ears :)

Then plz try to explain me why me lvl 37 rare helmet decays in 10 mins while the rest of my armor varying from lvl 20-30 decays in 2-3 houres?

It's that bad i just can't use the helmet...


P.S. i'm a lvl 27 warrior

[Squeeks]

I'd like to see it gone as well. 29 Warrior here. I am still <1g while al my guildies and friends are buying t3 mounts, grabbing boats and houses and I have to beg for repair costs.

Get ri dof it NOW. AT this rate by the time i'm level 30 i'll be broke. It is bad enough that i wil likely not see anything but starter mount by level 50. The gear is getting costly (tanks ar every gear dependent) and with repair - you need to be millionaire to play a tank. It is small wonder that tanks seem to be in high demand at 25+ . I may have to start asking for up front cash. :mad:

Squeeks

[framinal]

well VG has me playing for now
but if this doesnt change in a major way ill be gone
with the release of another game
too many choices to play where i can actually have fun
i too am broke constantly at lvl 32
its not that i dont make a decient amount of coin its that im
spending it all on repairs
and ys im still driving around on my clunker t1 horse
no boat, no house, dont see those coming till much later if at all
GG for going back on your word and implementing this durability
that you said would never be in

thanks

[Khaunshar]

I play a bloodmage (level 38 now) and a paladin (22), together with a ranger (38) and I asked a good friend who is DRK (42)

We all lose durability at roughly the same rate, and the cost depends on item level/rarity. Of all those, the bloodmage pays the most when hes down to 0% due to having several orange, red and yellow items.

I havent seen any evidence that tank classes lose durability much quicker than others, if those others arent slacking and making long pauses between casts. Its about how many skills/abilities you use mostly, and not about how much you get hit.

If they remove repair costs, that ll mean they will introduce a different money sink.

[Shihan]

I play a bloodmage (level 38 now) and a paladin (22), together with a ranger (38) and I asked a good friend who is DRK (42)

We all lose durability at roughly the same rate, and the cost depends on item level/rarity. Of all those, the bloodmage pays the most when hes down to 0% due to having several orange, red and yellow items.

I havent seen any evidence that tank classes lose durability much quicker than others, if those others arent slacking and making long pauses between casts. Its about how many skills/abilities you use mostly, and not about how much you get hit.

If they remove repair costs, that ll mean they will introduce a different money sink.

When a tank goes from 100% to 0% in 2 hours and everyone else is at 75% or more still, you don't see an issue w/ this? It's consistent too! Every 2 hours I'm repairing and spending 60s.

[Mortezzah]

My 30 disciple I can leave at 0%, and he is only a tad bit effective.
My 40 warrior has to constantly repair, or his effectiveness is neuterered.

This needs to be addressed.

[Khaunshar]

When a tank goes from 100% to 0% in 2 hours and everyone else is at 75% or more still, you don't see an issue w/ this? It's consistent too! Every 2 hours I'm repairing and spending 60s.

Fact is, my bloodmage has to repair every 2 hours, usually the tank, the ranger and myself go to repair together, and are within 10% range of each other.

Dont know where you are pulling those 75% myths from.

[TentacleMan]

Repair Bills are REALLY horrific for any tank.

It prevents me from playing them because I don't want to lose all this money I hvae.

I understand why it should be higher but not by that much.

I think if everyone is at 75% then the tank should be about 50% bceause bascially, he's getting CONSTANT damage. whereas everyone else really doesn't.

Plus, he wears PLATE, plate should ahve higher durablity then leather.

However, I do understand that this is a money sink and there has to be more for the economy but I hell, if I could game for 3-4 hours with no repairs instead of 2, I'd be happy.

[Vidrak]

I just stopped by the tank section because I saw this :) I will chime in with my opinion and details.

I play a CLR, and I have also noticed this LARGE hit to durability on items. Here are some observations I have made:

1) You get chance to lose durability with abilities/attacks/spells you perform in combat.

2) You get a chance to lose durability when hit in combat.

Pre-Update #1, when I could actually take hits :P If I was filling in as a tank in a group, I would lose all my durability on my items in about 45mins-1hour. This isn't even enough time to finish some quests in dungeons. The durablity hit when smacked by a mob should be removed IMO (while not realistic, tanks/people that get hit, are paying 4-5x the repair costs of others).

Not only is this completely unfair, I hate decay systems in general, especially ones like this where you have to CONSTANTLY baby-sit it and make sure you are not closing in on <10%. I hope Brad lays the smack down and gets this taken out, I think there are better ways for moneysinks. Or at least a better way to implement this decay system.

[Vidrak]

I just stopped by the tank section because I saw this :) I will chime in with my opinion and details.

I play a CLR, and I have also noticed this LARGE hit to durability on items. Here are some observations I have made:

1) You get chance to lose durability with abilities/attacks/spells you perform in combat.

2) You get a chance to lose durability when hit in combat.

Pre-Update #1, when I could actually take hits :P If I was filling in as a tank in a group, I would lose all my durability on my items in about 45mins-1hour. This isn't even enough time to finish some quests in dungeons. The durablity hit when smacked by a mob should be removed IMO (while not realistic, tanks/people that get hit, are paying 4-5x the repair costs of others).

Not only is this completely unfair, I hate decay systems in general, especially ones like this where you have to CONSTANTLY baby-sit it and make sure you are not closing in on <10%. I hope Brad lays the smack down and gets this taken out, I think there are better ways for moneysinks. Or at least a better way to implement this decay system.

When I used to tank in a group, 1 hour in, I would be at 20% or less durability. When I heal in a group and don't get smacked on too much, I am sitting pretty at around 70-80%. Something is definitely wrong.

[Trillis]

Ok there is alot of misconceptions in this thread.
Our normal group

29 Warrior ( Gear 25-31 Rare/Uncommon )
30 Shaman ( Gear 36-37 Rare/Uncommon )
28 Psionicist ( Gear 25-30 Rare/Uncommon )
28 Cleric ( Gear 25-28 Rare)
28 Monk ( Gear 25-30 Rare/Uncommon )
28 Bard ( 25-28 Rare/Uncommon )

After 3 to 3.5 Hours in a Dungeon

Warrior is at 0% to 7% on all gear.
Shaman is at 9% to 20% on all gear(The lowest items are the Highest Level ones)
Psi is at 60% - 65%
Cleric is at 50%-60%
Monk is at 60% - 65%
Bard is at 60% - 65%

Shaman and I both have tested and seen that Higher Level Gear(more Exp. Cost) degrade at a faster rate than Gear that is more level appropriate.

I have also noticed that gear too far under your level degrades faster than gear at your level.

However Tanks degrade at a much faster rate than all others. Tried a Dungeon with a few Level 36 Items..after 1 Hour they were both at 0% whereas the Shaman can go for over 3 hours this way.

So for the best bang for the buck until they get this fixed. Try and make sure all your gear is within 1 to 2 levels either way of your char level.

Please have a developer look into this. Seems our aggro abilities are tied to this in some way. Having to spam Shield Bash, Kick, Taunt, and Taunting Strike in a cycle to maintain aggro could very well be the cause of this for warriors. Maybe those 4 abilities have a higher chance to cause a durability hit (Just a guess by me, but seems plausible). Please could we get a dev to look into this.

[Vidrak]

I don't see why you think it is ur abilities, it HAS to be that you are taking 95% of all the damage. And yes, I forgot to mention that, but gear that is out of your lvl range degrades faster, thus making you pay more money to fix it (kind of a neat twkining idea I guess :P).

As I said above, if I tank I lose my durability like 4x faster than if I am just healing and not taking much damage. Same thing for tanks that are NOT MTing for a group. I have grouped with 2 warriors at the same time before, the one DPSing was taking next to no durability hits while the one taking all the damage was getting smoked.

It has to be a "if you are hit, you lose durability" statement in the code, it makes sense, and makes sense for all classes. I highly, highly doubt it has anything to do with taunts. As I see the same effect on other classes that are not tanking classes if they are taking a large portion of the damage (exluding item level appropriate gear, as you said above).

[Trillis]

I don't see why you think it is ur abilities, it HAS to be that you are taking 95% of all the damage. And yes, I forgot to mention that, but gear that is out of your lvl range degrades faster, thus making you pay more money to fix it (kind of a neat twkining idea I guess :P).

.

It has been clearly stated before that any ability use has a chance to cause a durability hit. Taking damge(hits) does not effect(affect?) this.

Non Tanking warriors are not spamming taunt and taunting strike, nor are they most likely using Shield bash....which leads me back to my previous conclusion.

[Shihan]

Fact is, my bloodmage has to repair every 2 hours, usually the tank, the ranger and myself go to repair together, and are within 10% range of each other.

Dont know where you are pulling those 75% myths from.

No myth. I group with a bloodmage EVERY day and his gear is never at the durability that mine is at. Not to mention his seems a heck of a lot cheaper to repair than mine even if we're both at 0%.

The 75% may have been slightly high, more like 65%'ish

[Trillis]

No myth. I group with a bloodmage EVERY day and his gear is never at the durability that mine is at. Not to mention his seems a heck of a lot cheaper to repair than mine even if we're both at 0%.

The 75% may have been slightly high, more like 65%'ish

I agree on this , that is why i beleive that Taunt, Taunting Strike, and Shield Bash have a higher chance at a durability hit than other abilities do.

I have been checking and rechecking this since release.

In offensive form tanking , I tend to stay roughly equal to the rest of my party (within 10%). I only really see the big differences when I am in defensive stance and using the 4 abilities I listed in a spam like rotation.

Oops, thought that was Vidrak posting again....sorry!

[Squeeks]

In my opinion its is the fact we are taunting AND as a result taking the damage from the mobs that result in our item degradation.

I agree, items that are better / higher level seem to degrade a LOT faster than lower level items. For example my lvl 35 chest is down to 20% after 2 hrs while my lvl 28 greaves are stil at 65%.

Last night i was off-tanking and the result was amazing, my net loss was only 13 silver. Normally its around 20-30s after an evening. This is AFTER selling looot and repairing.

A friend joked that tanks should form a union and ask for a hourly fee. Seriously, i think it is almost at that point. I am sick of seeing folks buying boats, houses, high level mounts which they get due to my tanking - but leaves me in abject poverty. A non-crafter group member was saying how poor he was as a necro with only a t3 mount and a house, with 15g in the bank. His comment wasnt viewed as outlandish - but my reply of, "Well I only have 15s, a t1 horse and I hope & pray that I can pay for repairs today..." was met with disbelief. I have no horseshoes, no barding, most of my armour is quested (a few dropped and 2 good bought pieces).

If a healer/mage is losing 90% durability in two hours their tank is not doing a good job.

To crafters - ever notice how slow heavy armor seems to move - and the stuff that sells is mostly +wis based. TANKS CANT AFFORD IT!!! It is so bad that i almost never bind gear as I NEED the resale value to stay current. If we wipe it can be bad for a group because I cannot tank back to the spot as most of my gear is unbound. Sure we can bind... but good luck having decent tanks in 5 levels.

Of all the issues with VSOH - this one is perhaps the most likely to make me annoyed at this game - annoyed enough to quit, beyond all the crashes, bugs and glitches...

SIGIL .. PLEASE REMOVE DURABILITY DECAY.. or lower it a by a HUGE margin. !!

Squeeks

[Nite]

i'll admit decay is really bad and it's annoying to see all my friends (non-crafters) with upgraded horses full crafted armor houses and a few with a boat while i'm stuck attempting to repair my gear or trying to get enough to buy next tier armor... however that's the tanks job we're not supposed to have it easy we're supposed to get beat up, scratched, dented and most of all really really annoyed getting crap thrown at us all the time :D

[jedilabrat]

i'll admit decay is really bad and it's annoying to see all my friends (non-crafters) with upgraded horses full crafted armor houses and a few with a boat while i'm stuck attempting to repair my gear or trying to get enough to buy next tier armor... however that's the tanks job we're not supposed to have it easy we're supposed to get beat up, scratched, dented and most of all really really annoyed getting crap thrown at us all the time :D

BULL F S. It is not fair that as a tank, and I love to tank, that I am expected to pay this absolutely brainless money sink in this F'ing game just because someone thinks tanks should have to fix their armor and weapons. Sorry but that just doesn't work at all.

The fact is they have a real issue, while everyone else gets to amass money to buy the cool toys in game, I am trapped spending stupid amounts of money to repair gear so I can go out and enjoy the game again. WTF is that about.

I generally don't get upset but to see a person even suggest that for some reason tanks should be penalized and not have fun like other players is just mind blowing.

There is no need for the F'ing repair money sink in game to begin with and should never have been introduced in beta but for the development team thinking that they needed to be more like every other MMO. LAME money sink that only penalizes tanks. LAME.

If they can not fix the system REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME TILL YOU DIG YOUIR HEADS OUT OF YOUR BACKSIDES WITH REGARDS TO PROGRAMMING and introduce it later on when you can actually implement a refined unbugged system to the game.

[Apiar]

BULL F S. It is not fair that as a tank, and I love to tank, that I am expected to pay this absolutely brainless money sink in this F'ing game just because someone thinks tanks should have to fix their armor and weapons. Sorry but that just doesn't work at all.

The fact is they have a real issue, while everyone else gets to amass money to buy the cool toys in game, I am trapped spending stupid amounts of money to repair gear so I can go out and enjoy the game again. WTF is that about.

I generally don't get upset but to see a person even suggest that for some reason tanks should be penalized and not have fun like other players is just mind blowing.

There is no need for the F'ing repair money sink in game to begin with and should never have been introduced in beta but for the development team thinking that they needed to be more like every other MMO. LAME money sink that only penalizes tanks. LAME.

If they can not fix the system REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME TILL YOU DIG YOUIR HEADS OUT OF YOUR BACKSIDES WITH REGARDS TO PROGRAMMING and introduce it later on when you can actually implement a refined unbugged system to the game.

I agree 100%. I'm a lvl 34 pally. Everytime my group goes into a dungeon we evac out out because all my items are under 10%. No one is even close to that in terms of decay. But what really gets me, is other players in groups that than ninja loot stuff that can be sold and the paladin gets nothing to sell back. Or the caster that rolls a need on a heavy armor item and then says he rolled a need because he can sell it and needs money. I'm with some previous posters......I am going to start charging for my services up front. The people I group with all have higher mounts and more money. The ONLY reason I am able to have money is because I craft to try to accrue some. So if your one of these greedy players and your grouped with me and you steal aggro, I usually watch them die and don't use taunts or rescues as they fall like paper because they decided to drain their mana and wonder why I can't get aggro back.

[Lumberg]

What I find funny is the increase of the cost of the same level item because it is better. Rare crafted compared to normal crafted, same level, different repair costs.

What I find even more funny... I am wearing a full suit of rare crafted armor that I made myself, but I have to go to a vender to get my gear repaired. Enough though I skilled enough to make this gear from scratch.

[Khaunshar]

Well, believe what you want to believe.

Durability hits come from using abilities. As a tank you usually spam abilities virtually nonstop, thus you take a lot of hits. Other classes can, and often will, employ a lazier playing style and not use as many abilities. For their slacking ,they dont take as many durability hits.
If you, however, compare a tank and a good healer/DPS class that is also using their class to the fullest (IE busy playstyle) they go down in durability just the same.

I duod with a ranger today, me being bloodmage. for 3 hours minotaurs in Seawatch, with her tanking all the time, she had MORE durability left than me afterwards, cause she was messing around with auto attack, and I spammed spells nonstop.

Its not a tank special. Its about how various people play.

[J Hoyt]

Or the caster that rolls a need on a heavy armor item and then says he rolled a need because he can sell it and needs money.While people do abuse the system, no caster can roll need on heavy armour, just like we can't roll need on light.

[Iskiab]

If someone rolls need you just boot them out of the group right there and then and then put them on ignore. I've never had to but that's the way you do it.

Anyways, I agree. I don't mind money sinks and there are lots of ways to put them in games. This money sink is just stupid though.

I'm working on MoP armor atm and am planning on getting the whole set. Thing is.... I might not wear it. As stupid as it sounds, I don't think it's worth it.

I've been talking to my healer and mobs don't really hit hard. I can get by on rare level 20 gear no problem. We're thinking of getting the set and then me shelving it until the system is fixed. What's the point of wearing good gear? It's just more repair costs that aren't necessary. Mind you this only works because I'm always in guild groups... but it's something to think about. People you don't know might think you suck because your gear is bad, but if you group with the same people all the time there really isn't a good reason for armor upgrades.

[Multiplex]

I've been talking to my healer and mobs don't really hit hard. I can get by on rare level 20 gear no problem. We're thinking of getting the set and then me shelving it until the system is fixed. What's the point of wearing good gear? It's just more repair costs that aren't necessary. Mind you this only works because I'm always in guild groups... but it's something to think about. People you don't know might think you suck because your gear is bad, but if you group with the same people all the time there really isn't a good reason for armor upgrades.

This is what I was doing. I kept mostly crappy armor and spent all of my cash on really badass weapons/shield. When someone else in the group asks me what my AC/Defense is I'd add 25% to what it really was and tell them that figure. Works like a charm.

[Shawnsan]

Have they removed this travesty yet?

[Apiar]

While people do abuse the system, no caster can roll need on heavy armour, just like we can't roll need on light.

Let me rephrase...not rolling a need. They can however loot a piece of heavy armor that is soulbound on pick up, like in Tsangs tomb or in Vol Tuniel. Have had it happen more then once and they just sell it to the general goods guy. That is not right.

I generally won't group anymore unless loot options are set up correctly or I know the indidivuals in the group.

[Zalere]

The fundamentals of durability are jacked up, in my opinion. How can it be that a cloth wearer gets nailed a few times and that silk robe not get shredded into pieces? How is it that cloth degrades at the same rate as steel? A sword smashing against a steel breastplate would barely scratch it, but against a cotton robe it has the same effect? Right.

I spend 22-28 silver for repairs, @10% or so. And I have to loot whore it up on vendor trash from the mob kills in hopes I break even. Fortunately I group with friends, so they don't care, but even when I loot every talon, beak, pelt or what the hell ever, I still don't even break even most nights.

I'm kind of sick of hearing it's a bug; it's giving a chance to do double durability damage, etc. Well, if it is, why not hotfix it? Turn it off until the bug is identified and fixed, perhaps?

This needs to be dealt with.

[Bubbels]

Just to add one more story to this.

Doing the CIS quests. Get to the point where I need to have a weapon crafted. Look at the cost to make a great sword. About 2 gold. Look at my cash. About 1 gold 40 silver. I have never come close to 2 gold.

Something needs to be adjusted here obviously. The only way I can ever get ahead is by selling something on the exchange broker or doing crafting WOs. My usual group will do round robin and put cash loot on split. When im done, I go sell my loot for around 4 or 5 silver, then watch my repair costs eat that all away.

[kryptonix]

I found a nice trick on making money without being an obvious loot whore. If you group with your friends a lot like I do. I usually have a 3 man group. Me (a DK), a necro, and a cleric. When we decide to go for a 6 man group to go on a full grind session we usually put it on cash loot sharing so the vendor trash will be distributed evenly among members. I just ask for what my friends get when were done grinding. Wont make as much but you wont be an obvious loot whore.

Oh yeh and missives are an awesome way to get nice xp and cash. Im finally gonna get over 2 gold....

[Kyzan]

Fact is, my bloodmage has to repair every 2 hours, usually the tank, the ranger and myself go to repair together, and are within 10% range of each other.

Dont know where you are pulling those 75% myths from.

yet another non tank with out a clue go back to your BM board dont bring your ignorance here please.

Fact is its has been stated more than once from the Delves that Plate wearers are getting Double dinged. This is from Tagad himself.

[ShadeVice]

I stay even, cash drops pay the repair bill every night but I dont make any money.

[Suriel]

/Agree the repair costs are a bit much.

[jedilabrat]

The fundamentals of durability are jacked up, in my opinion. How can it be that a cloth wearer gets nailed a few times and that silk robe not get shredded into pieces? How is it that cloth degrades at the same rate as steel? A sword smashing against a steel breastplate would barely scratch it, but against a cotton robe it has the same effect? Right.

I spend 22-28 silver for repairs, @10% or so. And I have to loot whore it up on vendor trash from the mob kills in hopes I break even. Fortunately I group with friends, so they don't care, but even when I loot every talon, beak, pelt or what the hell ever, I still don't even break even most nights.

I'm kind of sick of hearing it's a bug; it's giving a chance to do double durability damage, etc. Well, if it is, why not hotfix it? Turn it off until the bug is identified and fixed, perhaps?

This needs to be dealt with.


Why is it that they are not good enough to realize they have a very poor system in place that is highly bugged and totally unbalanced yet they are not willing to remove it until such a time as it can be brought back into the game in a fixed fashion.

I so tire of having to spend my newly earned money on repairs after a night of adventuring. And honesly telling me to go craft is a load of crap Sigil.

[Karamonde]

do something for tanks : X

It have happened me 2 times we progressing into a dungeon like ruins of TK, to arriv ein last part and iam already down at 30%, last part durability goes down and down, to the point i know i will face the end boss with 0 durability and we have to evac :/

and no i cant afford 2 armor set and carry a spare one around. + i am getting ruined :/ iam 29, i got 33silver left, i tihnk i will put on my T2set for casual play and keep the T3 armor for dungeon runs.

[J Hoyt]

Yeah, I got a level 36 breastplate (346 AC) last night from missives and I think it will go into the saddlebags until I can afford to keep it in good condition. Or on the broker for insane prices then if it sells I'd be able to repair it. But then....ah, crap....

[garath]

I grouped last night and for the first time in awhile I wasn't the MT. After close to 3 hours of grouping where I'd normally be looking anxiously at my equipment durability, lo and behold, I was at 85%. :eek:

What a difference. My repair bills were around 5 silver instead of 20 or so. I know other classes say that they get hit with repair problems but there's really no comparison.

[Lumberg]

Yea I don't buy the "durability is not based on getting hit." It does have an affect. You can definately see the difference between MTing and STing.

[Velzevul]

Yea I don't buy the "durability is not based on getting hit." It does have an affect. You can definately see the difference between MTing and STing.


difference may be that some of the mobs you are fighting have a durability reducing abilities, similar to warriors Rend Armor (-15% mitigation or something like that ). And since nearly every race can be a Warrior, same holds true to NPCS. Furthermore, if you are fighting NPCS higher level than yourself, they will land this kind of ability on you every fight, if not multiple times per fight (4-5dot fights tend to last longer). You do the math. Fight 50 of those NPCS, and your armor is all F'd up.


2SIGIL:
I think part of the problem here is that Sigil programmed NPCs to use the exact same spell as players do, and it is not right. Players don't die and respawn with 100% durability after a fight!

[Iskiab]

The system has to be thrown out.

Can you imagine what will happen when people hit cap and start raiding? You'd be looking at 1gp every 2 hours and having to carry a butt load of repair items with you.

The system is broke. It should be removed entirely until they can fix it. Either that or just scrap it entirely and come up with better more even money sinks.

I think the Devs are looking at the amount going out and going into the economy in general and think the system is OK. What they fail to realize is the system is slanted against tanks where we're piss poor and casters have houses already. Something needs to be done, and done fast.

[Padlo]

I rolled a paladin tank not long ago and just happened to find this thread today, and I read every single post in it.
I so agree with the issues brought up here, even at my modest level of 18 I feel the pain of the repair bills, especially in dungeons its totally out of proportions! ("lucky" I have a caster main I can leech cash on... ffs...no really :()

I understand that Sigil has they hands full, but this is really a severe problem, is such a big group of population is affected they need to act asap!
Recently however I've seen posting on this in:

1) A thread where a developer made a list of things that they consider to make improvements (like somebody mentioned above).

2) VanguardRadio interview, where a dev says that they are considering to remove repair sink all together, but because some people worked hard to make the system they seemed reluctant to do so and havent decided yet (to those people I recommend to go play a main tank in a dungeon and check if they change their mind..)

I also recently learned about Vanguard affiliate program, and how the representatives at affiliate fansite are supposed to notify and ask developers on "hot" issues or just in general.

SilkyVenom is no doubt an affiliate site, why haven't that affiliate person posted here to let us know that they have notified the developers on this issue? I don't see much point in this affiliate system unless the general public is notified of what is brought to the developers and what their respons is (e.g. we know of it and working actively to fix it, or on the list to fix in the future, etc)!?

[irislich]

Item repair = "It's been updated internally and should be less harsh; no idea which patch/build that it'll get in, though." Which most likely means that tanks will still be paying 3 times as much as all the other classes, just that everyone will be paying less. Well... it's better than nothing, I guess


~irislich~

[Renfail]

http://www.vanguardservers.com/forums/vanguard-discussion/1730-whats-happening-repair.html#post16434


Cylus' response.

[hawnz]

currently, my regular groups tend to ask me "how long till repair?" instead of "how long you gonna be on for?" having to leave a dungeon to go repair just brings everything to a grinding halt. if you don't want to get rid of it, leave the costs as is, but you need to extend the length of duration by at least 5 times what it currently is.

[garath]

The higher I level and the more rare+ items I get (I have 2 legendary pieces now) it is getting tougher and tougher to stay on top of the bills.

I think my last 5% to full repair cost around 40 silver :(

[Iskiab]

What bugs me most is how short the time is until I have to repair next. I'm a blacksmith so I have cash to burn on repairs which is a good thing, because I lose money from adventuring atm.

I posted this on another thread, but here goes. Here's how my usually nightly experience goes:

8pm - Repaired and ready to go hunting in Thelaseen.
9pm - Evac from a bad pull and have to go repair because I'm at 50%. The trip is 15 minutes there and back to the mender. 15 mins EVERY FREAKEN TIME I HAVE TO REPAIR.
9:15 - Back to the group and we go back in.
11:15 - Evac because I'm at 0% on my armor. On to the mender again.
11:30 - Back to the dungeon and away we go.
12:30 - We get roamers and have to evac. On to the mender again, at 50%.
12:45 - Back to the dungeon and actually playing the game.
1:30 - Night's over, I go to the mender and repair again to camp out for the next night.

Total time played - 5 3/4 hours. Total time wasted going to the mender, 1 hour. So about 1/5 of my time is wasted running back and forth to the mender. It's ridiculous. They need to set it so instead of repairing every 2 hours it's at least 4. Right now repairing isn't just a money sink, it's a time sink too. Time where we could be playing and instead everyone is just sitting around. It really makes the game tedious. It's things like this that give VG a bad name because you end up sitting around instead of playing for 1/5 of your time instead of just making a money sink.

They need to cut the decay rate by half, just to start. I really think it needs to be lower then that in all honesty. ATM it's a big waste of everyone's time and kills everyone's enjoyment of the game.

PLUS, this also doesn't take into account the cost. The cost is appauling. I'm all yellow gear for the most part, I'm working on my MoP armor. I lose money every time I play. If it wasn't for me being a 30 blacksmith, I wouldn't be able to afford to adventure. I think I lose about 40 silver a night adventuring. That's 40 silver a night which is way too much.

The system is just plain bad. It's bad in the sense that it's not a gamebreaker for anyone, but at the end of the night you think to yourself. Did I have fun tonight? I can guarantee you the answer to the question is not as much fun as you would have had if there was no item decay. Atm nothing is worse then the current system, nothing. Give me an EQ1 economy over what we have now anyday, at least I'd be having more fun.

[Lumberg]

Crafters should be able to repair thier archtype of gear. It would make having a crafter in a dugeon cool.

[Iskiab]

There sort of is. Artificers can make items that summon a mender for everyone to repair. The thing is it costs about 2gp each.

I think it's meant more as a solution for raiding at cap then leveling up. Something needs to be done with leveling up.

If they made it so I could repair my own gear as I adventure I'd be fine with that of course as a blacksmith :)

[Bubbels]

The level of mob seems to make a huge difference as well.

I was in river valley. We had just killed about a dozen of those mobs up near the entrance. I believe they where 25 / 26.

Anyhow on my 24 DK my group decided to pull that level 35 2 dot just for the fun of it and kill her. We had some higher levels that could land some hits, I basically just stayed with saves to try and mitigate some of the damage.

The fight was a grueling 8 minutes long. But it was fun. I went to check my gear and all my durability was down to 70%.

[Bubbels]

One more thing. Spent about 4 hours crafting this weekend. When I went to repair afterwards, each item cost around 3 to 4 copper.

Level 17 blacksmith and about 90% equipment expertise usage.

I dont think crafting durability should be nerfed, I think adventuring gear should be brought to this level.

[Padlo]

http://www.vanguardservers.com/forums/vanguard-discussion/1730-whats-happening-repair.html#post16434


Cylus' response.

For once its nice to hear an official response, however it doesnt sound like "good" fix to me. Even if they lowered it by 30-50% its not not enough in my opinion, I think most people would agree that we need dramatic changes here..

[Iskiab]

I agree, we aren't talking a tweak here. The system is completely broken.

The common sense thing to do would be to look at how long you want people to be able to go in a dungeon without repairing. I think a good goal would be 5 hours+. So if atm it's set at 2 hours I think items should decay at about 33% of the rate they currently decay. His response doesn't sound like that's what they're going for.

Durability is becoming a bigger and bigger issue the more I play the game. It's the reason I'm poor, it's the reason we have to cut our dungeon trips short, it's the reason I'm not having as much fun as I should be. Scrap the system.

[Shawnsan]

For once its nice to hear an official response, however it doesnt sound like "good" fix to me. Even if they lowered it by 30-50% its not not enough in my opinion, I think most people would agree that we need dramatic changes here..

I'd say it was nice to hear this if it wasn't already stated about a month ago.

:eek: :o

[Spry]

I'd say it was nice to hear this if it wasn't already stated about a month ago.

:eek: :o

I have had Horrible repair bills. I also make way more money on the market by far then I lose on repairs. We definitly need a small reduction for the tankers. My average repair bill is around 40s not sure what it would be at 0.

[Twoofus]

I'm not doing any dungeons until this is fixed. To me, losing money while adventuring is game stopping mechanics.

Sure... It's nice to hear they are thinking about it.
But it should have been disabled completely until a working solution has been found.

Those people that already left over it will probably never come back...

[Garbar]

I dont care about the price so much, Its haveing to repair after 2-3 hours into a dungeon that is realy anoying.

[Tunari]

I dont care about the price so much, Its haveing to repair after 2-3 hours into a dungeon that is realy anoying.

Agreed, I think that the repair thing is not too bad. But the stop to playing while in a dungeon is rather harsh. Pretty sucky to have your main tank need to port back to repair then rework the whole team back into the dungeon all over again.

[Kyzan]

I wonder if were gonna get reembursed for the amount of cash most tanks have had to spend along the way to 50. lets see that would come to about for me....15g easy

[Apiar]

I wonder if were gonna get reembursed for the amount of cash most tanks have had to spend along the way to 50. lets see that would come to about for me....15g easy

More then that for me. In my 2 plus weeks at Vol Tuniel I have spent 14 gold in repairs as the MT. The cash loot hardly makes up for it when it is shared in the group.

[Branamar]

More then that for me. In my 2 plus weeks at Vol Tuniel I have spent 14 gold in repairs as the MT. The cash loot hardly makes up for it when it is shared in the group.

They simply need to scale that secondary line of code associated with the "hitpoints" a particular piece of armor has. Heavy armor needs to be the most durable for obvious reasons.

By the same logic, medium and light should have penalties that scale upward for taking damage. I view that as incentive for them to make sure the tank is holding aggro. Its a little ridiculous when the backseaters get a free ride and almost no decay because they do very little in the way of taking damage.

If every piece of armor has the same hitpoint value then it should scale as such:

Heavy armor- .02% for every hit below 500 damage- .05% for every hit above
Medium armor- .075% for every hit below 500 - .2% for every hit above
Light armor- .5 for every hit below 500- 1% for every hit above.

Tanks are made viable and the cost of repair is softened a bit to allow more exploration instead of feeding the money pit.

[Kyzan]

They simply need to scale that secondary line of code associated with the "hitpoints" a particular piece of armor has. Heavy armor needs to be the most durable for obvious reasons.

By the same logic, medium and light should have penalties that scale upward for taking damage. I view that as incentive for them to make sure the tank is holding aggro. Its a little ridiculous when the backseaters get a free ride and almost no decay because they do very little in the way of taking damage.

If every piece of armor has the same hitpoint value then it should scale as such:

Heavy armor- .02% for every hit below 500 damage- .05% for every hit above
Medium armor- .075% for every hit below 500 - .2% for every hit above
Light armor- .5 for every hit below 500- 1% for every hit above.

Tanks are made viable and the cost of repair is softened a bit to allow more exploration instead of feeding the money pit.

A intersting idea but highly doubt that would work. You would have the solo people up in arms over this change.

[Lumberg]

Crafters should be able to repair thier archtype of gear. It would make having a crafter in a dugeon cool.There sort of is. Artificers can make items that summon a mender for everyone to repair. The thing is it costs about 2gp each.

I think it's meant more as a solution for raiding at cap then leveling up. Something needs to be done with leveling up.

If they made it so I could repair my own gear as I adventure I'd be fine with that of course as a blacksmith :)

Ok artificers make something... some guy up by a crafting station cranking these out is becoming rich. What's that have to do with a crafter repairing thier own gear or even being in the dungeon?

[Apiar]

As an armorsmith I should be able to repair my own armor in dungeons.

After these two weeks in Vol Tuniel, losing the 14 gold in repairs and being frustrated that I had one piece of ancient armor while all the dps and healers I group with have an almost full set, I told them I was ready to leave as I was losing way too much coin. After taking my frustration out on them (which I shouldn't have cuz I was losing every roll for candles and runes) in vent, what happens? I complete 2 more pieces of armor and need one piece for a 4th.

Now I know its not their fault that I lost the rolls, but in my mind I thought it would be nice if they rolled greed on some stuff and let me roll need since I was so behind them and had been there tank for the whole time. If it wasn't costing me so much in gold to do the tanking I wouldn't care who got what. But the system was making it so I was becoming frustrated with friends who have nothing to do with the system.

[Branamar]

A intersting idea but highly doubt that would work. You would have the solo people up in arms over this change.

Well the soloist is meant to have a harder life unless completing delivery quests and such.

If you fight alone you are more likely to take damage. And cloth wearers get way too much damn cushion on those robes for as much damage as they take.

Hell its cloth, if you rub it on the ground too hard it'll wear down. The trade off for being able to deal that kind of damage is being coated in wax instead of clad steel or iron. Even glass cannons break.

Tanks cannot out dps a full on offensive fighter/caster, but at the same time its essential for them to hold aggro when trying kill higher end content.

We get the short end of the stick when it comes to loot sharing. Half the cost of repairs isn't covered by the junk one trades in at the end of a long crawl.

Make heavy armor more durable especially when taking high damage hits. It makes sense.

[J Hoyt]

As an armorsmith I should be able to repair my own armor in dungeons.

If you can find an anvil and a forge down there then sure.

[Zikkar]

If you can find an anvil and a forge down there then sure.

No no no a robot makes much more sence anyway.

[Iskiab]

Armor decay isn't affected by how often you're hit.

I got a new 2 hander the other day but since I always tank I needed to skill up in 2 handed slash. So anyways, I headed down to lycaeum and fought some 4 dot level 18 mobs. I just autoattacked the mobs and didn't use any CAs. After fighting for about half an hours worth of time which is about 15 mobs I looked at my gear. I was at 100% or 99% on everything.

I think tanks are hit harder because of how our CAs are built. Warriors at least have hit kick, taunting strike, shield bash and taunt like crazy so hit more CAs then other classes which makes our armor decay faster.

Either way, the system sucks.

[Shawnsan]

Is it gone yet?

How about now?

:volcano:

[Padlo]

Just wondering - who do I have to beg/bribe/blackmail/sleep with to have some changes made soon? :ninja:

[Irrukathus]

I not really a fan of the cost for repair, but for the most part I usually break even on most dungeon crawls. Every now and then I'll come on top a few silver but not much. I do bank a little more when I solo, but not really alot. At 37 DK the cost for repair isn't THAT bad as I am working on my sleeping moon armor set which is for the most part free.

Cost aside though the rate at which things repair is horrible and should be modified and/or changed.

[Iskiab]

Heh, wait until you get more MoP armor. It's not free to repair, in fact it's expensive to repair. The BP costs a FORTUNE in itself, we're talking 8 silver just the bp.

[Oneleg]

Deep in a dungeon...2.5 hours and my gear is at 0%. Makes me not wanna put forth the effort. Such a pain.

[Iskiab]

Today I came across another example of how stupid repairs are and why they need to get rid of them.

So we're working on a quest where we need to kill broodmothers in Thelaseen. We're working our way towards where the place is and get to the entrance of the building - 50%. We kill the 2 broodmothers that are up and kill in between respawns - 25%. We finally kill all the broodmothers but wait, we need to camp this place for a rare spawn - 0%.

So you can't even finish one quest before repairing. What idiocy. Then we're supposed to camp some place for a rare spawn when it takes me down to 25% just to get down there. That's freaken retarded.

I had to port out and repair to get called back into the dungeon. Way to ruin everyone's fun!

[Renfail]

Today I came across another example of how stupid repairs are and why they need to get rid of them.

So we're working on a quest where we need to kill broodmothers in Thelaseen. We're working our way towards where the place is and get to the entrance of the building - 50%. We kill the 2 broodmothers that are up and kill in between respawns - 25%. We finally kill all the broodmothers but wait, we need to camp this place for a rare spawn - 0%.

So you can't even finish one quest before repairing. What idiocy. Then we're supposed to camp some place for a rare spawn when it takes me down to 25% just to get down there. That's freaken retarded.

I had to port out and repair to get called back into the dungeon. Way to ruin everyone's fun!


Repair stones, mate...Repair stones. These are the bread and butter of our 8-10 hour runs through MoP zones.

Sad thing is our crafters have to burn a t4 rare resource to make them. Good thing is, all of our adventurers are required to keep their harvesting up to par so we keep everything stocked pretty well.

Sad thing is you still have to pay the repair bot. I'm up to nearly 80 silver per repair bill now...and that's every 2ish-3ish hours. In a 10 hour day I'm repairing 4-5 times. It's sheeetah

[Padlo]

From todays update:
- The cost to repair items with high rarities has been reduced.

Well this is indeed good news, even though the decay rate needs to be worked on also :)
But if they make changes like this maybe they finally make some further adjustments to decay rate for heavy armour so we dont have to evac and repair every 2hrs when doing dungeons? I'm optimistic :D

[KombatJesus]

From todays update:

Well this is indeed good news, even though the decay rate needs to be worked on also :)
But if they make changes like this maybe they finally make some further adjustments to decay rate for heavy armour so we dont have to evac and repair every 2hrs when doing dungeons? I'm optimistic :D

This durability system is the most lazy cash sink system I have ever seen. . .probably would have done better to implement food based system and give some fluff bonus/penalty to performance when full/empty. . .

"hold on guys i need a break after this im hungry. Bone Marrow Crunchies anyone?"

[Mortezzah]

Part of the problem is the disparity.

With my mid 40s tank I spend the majority of his cash earned on repairs. Or he can't do squat.

With my 30s healer I can not worry about it. Stay at 0. Still solo 3 dots and heal groups.

The system needs to be removed or make it relatively affect all classes -- at which point everyone in the game will lobby for it to be removed.

[Desiderius]

Part of the problem is the disparity.

This, to me, is the main problem. It seems that the 'Melee dps' classes are at a reasonable rate while the 'Tanking' classes are not. I believe that a stream-lining of the degrading rates would be viable solution.

[Branamar]

This, to me, is the main problem. It seems that the 'Melee dps' classes are at a reasonable rate while the 'Tanking' classes are not. I believe that a stream-lining of the degrading rates would be viable solution.

This is something that I believe to be a viable solution.

Metal plating is more durable to the elements and direct contact and friction than a piece of cloth or leather.

If all armor pieces had the same values tied to their respective percentage, then heavy classed armor should reduce at a rate of 145% of its cloth and leather counterparts.

We take more damage so that the other group members don't have to, its the sole premise of being a "tank". We should not be punished for doing our job.