How the players destroyed the monk.

[annihilist]

I've been browsing the forums for a while now, keeping an inventory of the monk grievances and complaints. I've just been sitting back smirking. See, through the past several weeks, I've gone completely unaffected by the monk-nerf patches, save perhaps the -%crit from fist weapons.

I am a harmonious monk. That's all I ever wanted to be since the beginning of vanguard. When I discovered what I was capable of doing with the complexities of stance switching, I was enthralled to discover that I could play the game my own way with a little implemented ingenuity.

But now I have but one option left--to complain like the rest of you. In response to the most recent patch (2/28), I am disappointed in every monk who has ever reported or even considered reporting the Jin dynamics of the harmonious stance. By reporting said dynamics as a BUG, you have now ruined the design of the harmonious monk. Not only did Sigil adjust the Jin dynamic of the harmonious body stance, but they also added a global cooldown to stance switching. And YOU, the player, are responsible. You in your beaurocratic reports of abnormal behavior and your lack of understanding have led to further disruption.

I am left frustrated, wanting to scream and curse at every one of you simplistic idiots for reporting monk enhancements as bugs, just because you've decided that Dragon Stance should be the best, or that Drunken stance is the coolest sounding.

The player base's lack of thinking about the fundamentals of class balance and its interaction with player satisfaction has utterly smothered any inspiration to be creative with my class. Harmony is now shattered.

[Calibix]

I've been browsing the forums for a while now, keeping an inventory of the monk grievances and complaints. I've just been sitting back smirking. See, through the past several weeks, I've gone completely unaffected by the monk-nerf patches, save perhaps the -%crit from fist weapons.

I am a harmonious monk. That's all I ever wanted to be since the beginning of vanguard. When I discovered what I was capable of doing with the complixities of stance switching, I was enthralled to discover that I could play the game my own way with a little implemented ingenuity.

But now I have but one option left--to complain like the rest of you. In response to the most recent patch (2/28), I am disappointed in every monk who has ever reported or even considered reporting the Jin dynamics of the harmonious stance. By reporting said dynamics as a BUG, you have now ruined the design of the harmonious monk. Not only did Sigil adjust the Jin dynamic of the harmonious body stance, but they also added a global cooldown to stance switching.

I am left frustrated, wanting to scream and curse at every one of you simplistic idiots for reporting monk enhancements as bugs, just because you've decided that Dragon Stance should be the best, or that Drunken stance is the coolest sounding.

The player base's lack of thinking about the fundamentals of class balance and its interaction with player satisfaction has utterly smothered any inspiration to be creative with my class. Harmony is now in shattered.

It's hard to shatter a plate more than it's already shattered. I was completely unaware of the fact that you could get 1 jin by switching to the stance, but it doesn't suprise me, since you can meditate, get 1 jin, re-med, get 1 jin. Faster than sitting and waiting imo. And I agree, I don't think it needed to get reported as a bug. Maybe simply a issue :/

Monks pale in comparison to everyother class, regardless of whether you were able to keep your jin maxed (which really isn't that hard normally imo). We offer no utility, thus any class provides a better incentive to be brought to a group. Monk dps is matched or exceeded by nearly any class, other than Clr, shammy, and disciples (sweet jesus I hope i'm right about that). So, why would you want a monk in a group??

The answer is you wouldn't, regardless of whether they can keep their jin maxed or not. Until someone fixes that problem, you will see more and more monks leave this game.

[saubertounito]

What I also find highly annoying is they took the godamn time to "fix the harmonious stance issue" but still left Dragon monks health regen stance broken.

They have till the end of the week to impress me, put SOMETHING in thats positive for a monk, and not another godamn level 50 skill which no one can even get yet, something tangible. If not, its time to look for another game, period.

[Calibix]

What I also find highly annoying is they took the godamn time to "fix the harmonious stance issue" but still left Dragon monks health regen stance broken.

They have till the end of the week to impress me, put SOMETHING in thats positive for a monk, and not another godamn level 50 skill which no one can even get yet, something tangible. If not, its time to look for another game, period.

Ironic isn't it. I might just play my cleric. Never played a healer before, but I'd say I'm a rather skilled player so I think I'll be ok. Cleric feels really complete to me. Had a level 40 psionicist in beta. After revamp they felt really complete as well.

Monks do not feel complete. They feel like a prime rib dinner, but all you get is the little side cup of au jus. And I really like prime rib :/

[Soluss]

since you been posting this everywhere i will repost this to this thread too...

You cant possibly think that being able to go from 0 jin to full jin in the matter of about 3 seconds wether in combat or not was intended. If you honestly believe that then you are a complete idiot.

They didnt fix the stance by the way they just took out the ability to abuse it. The way it was before they fixed the unintended effect was... you could switch from any stance to harmonious and back to stance... you keep going back and forth and every time you get 1 jin.. you could make a macro to do the switch for you. clicking the macro i was able to go from 0 jin to 15 jin in about 3 seconds time. Obviously this is not intended. However they should have done something with this stance when they fixed that because in its current form it is absolutly worthless.

Description : regen jin slowly overtime while in stance. The regen rate is so slow all it does is go back and forth from 0 to 1 and back to 0. Because of the out of combat decay rate of jin is faster then the rate the stance allows you to regen it. The only use I have found for this stance is to use it while meditating it will regen jin approximatly .25 seconds faster while meditating. when you are full you can stay in this stance and you will not lose any jin (unless of course you use it). until you are ready to fight and switch back out of it.

[annihilist]

What exactly is the origin of your vendetta against the monk? Listen to yourself. Exploits grant unfair advantages over other players. You're claiming that my creativity is an exploit. How did sigil overlook this in the first place? I mean it's RIGHT THERE.

Anyway, explain why you hate the monk, i'll be here, lurking in the low DPS/reroll shadows.

[Soluss]

What exactly is the origin of your vendetta against the monk? Listen to yourself. Exploits grant unfair advantages over other players. You're claiming that my creativity is an exploit. How did sigil overlook this in the first place? I mean it's RIGHT THERE.

Anyway, explain why you hate the monk, i'll be here, lurking in the low DPS/reroll shadows.

Are you kidding me? I am a lvl 26 harmonious monk. I have no vendetta against them and have been fighting for mass buffage on our totally piece of crap class atm. However again you cannot honestly belive that it is intended to be able to switch stances back and forth whether its macro'd or you do it manually to get from 0 to full jin in the matter of a couple seconds. If that were the case they would have just made the stance regen it like that by itself. You might as well just have gotten a one click ability to max fill jin on a 3 second timer because it would have been the same thing. To insist that this was a feature and not an exploit assures me you are a moron. Maby you should listen to yourself and think about what YOU are trying to say here.

And btw I did not bug that I enjoyed using it while it lasted as well. Why because it helped our class that we are getting from nowhere else at the moment but I also knew it would be fixed eventually and knew it was not intended to work like that. Which btw is obvious since they did indeed fix it.

[WildAce]

they should remove the out of combat jin loss.

[Soluss]

they should remove the out of combat jin loss.

I agree and in fact if you read the manual that came with the game it states that you will not lose what you build except when you use it.

[Qpo]

they should remove the out of combat jin loss.

No they shouldn't. Having 0 jin when you enter a fight forces you to take alot of decisions. If you always had max, you'd just pump away at the start of the fight and just kick towards the end to regain your jin. Making every fight a controlled fight where the risk of dying is going to be close to zero. Which would be boring.

[Deinnun]

What exactly is the origin of your vendetta against the monk? Listen to yourself. Exploits grant unfair advantages over other players. You're claiming that my creativity is an exploit. How did sigil overlook this in the first place? I mean it's RIGHT THERE.

Anyway, explain why you hate the monk, i'll be here, lurking in the low DPS/reroll shadows.

It was a bug, a very obvious one. The fact that Sigil changed it is the proof that it was unintended. I'm a harmonious monk myself and never found this "feature" before it was mentioned here on the boards so I'm not surprised that Sigil did not find it themselves.

I have not played the monk since the last changes so can't confirm if decay is faster than the gain from the harmonious stance. If it is indeed the case it should be reported to our class lead as an issue.

[Soluss]

No they shouldn't. Having 0 jin when you enter a fight forces you to take alot of decisions. If you always had max, you'd just pump away at the start of the fight and just kick towards the end to regain your jin. Making every fight a controlled fight where the risk of dying is going to be close to zero. Which would be boring.


Who said you would have max jin at the start of the fight? Having some jin when entering a fight would not break anything. You can spam ashen hand all you want that is not going to win a fight for you. The dmg is not that great and cost 4 jin. so if your max jin is 15 you use 2 for the buff and you have 3 ashen hands that will do about 400 dmg each. Assuming you dont crit on any of those you wouldnt be building jin but lets say you crit on 2 of em. Thats 2 more jin you can build so you almost have another ashen hand. so we will add another 400 dmg. thats 1600 dmg... thats roughly 25% of the mobs health at this point. So now you are going to spam kicks and punches? well lets see depending on what stance you are in, i am a harmonious monk that would probably be in tiger for the crit chance so lets use that, you would have about 4 kicks or punches you could use before you are out of end. I highly doubt just because I had max jin entering the fight that i would just spam that to zero and then use the other abilities. That would be a poor inneffective way to go. Not too mention as harmonious at least you have a mitigation debuff and a strength debuff. I would most likely use that first. But wait that means i have no decisions to make. GOD forbid i use those abilities first because its too cookie cutter.

I will also bring up the fact that if it is so uber to start a fight with max jin you can do it anytime you want to. Its called meditation. So tell me again how not losing jin while out of combat is so game breaking?

[Xeliso]

In a full group situation with buffs from other classes, there is no reason why you should be depleating all of your jin prior to end of battle unless you are to spam Ashen Hand.

I max out at 18 jin at lvl 44, and never do I see myself under 10 at all times and that is with Iron Fist and Secret active.

[Soluss]

In a full group situation with buffs from other classes, there is no reason why you should be depleating all of your jin prior to end of battle unless you are to spam Ashen Hand.

I max out at 18 jin at lvl 44, and never do I see myself under 10 at all times and that is with Iron Fist and Secret active.

No i never do go through all my jin in groups. My only point is that there is no reason for it to deteriorate. I dont even know how it became that as I was just responding to the original poster who thinks that the harmonious exploit was a feature