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Fozzik
09-29-2005, 04:27 PM
739There have been a few more developments from everyone's favorite Canadian graphics chip company, ATI. First off, in case you haven't seen them around the web, ATI has begun a countdown ad campaign, showing roughly 6 days remaining. This is most likely a countdown to the launch of at least some of their next-gen line of graphics processors (maybe all, meaning R520, RV530, and RV515).

We'll have to wait until next week to find out which cards, and maybe more importantly, what will be available on launch day. After Nvidia laid down the gauntlet earlier this year with their hard launches of the 7800GTX and GT, one would think that nobody would attempt to get away with a paper launch. Launching a product and not having it ready to sell for weeks or months after is generally quite annoying to consumers, especially when hardware review sites have all the highest-end cards in-house on launch day. Nobody likes to see great performance numbers from cards they can't even buy.

At any rate, it looks like we have less than a week of waiting left, and hopefully all questions will be answered.

Second on the list is something that really leaves me scratching my head. I'd like to be able to talk to ATI and ask them what in the world they are thinking. It appears that ATI has decided to reduce the warranties on their graphics cards from three years down to one year. Considering the fact that many companies (BFG and XFX come to mind) who make Nvidia graphics cards are now offering lifetime warranties or more, this move by ATI is extremely odd, and more than a bit worrisome. There are other companies who produce graphics cards using ATI chips (Sapphire is one), it will be interesting to see if those other players try to be a little more competitive with the Nvidia options.

Last but not least, it was understood not long ago that although Nvidia was not producing any more AGP cards, ATI was still intending to make AGP versions of their next-gen products. This seems to have changed, and the current info is that we have seen the last AGP cards from both companies...ATI will not be making AGP versions of their R520 lineup. It's the end of a long relationship with a decent bus technology (AGP), so let's all wave and perhaps shed a tear...It appears that the X850 XT will be the last, and most powerful, AGP graphics card we ever see.

Slide
09-30-2005, 04:42 AM
I've been following this, and there's definately some negative vibes going around about the next gen things.

Early leaked benchmarks are pointing towards it being lower performance than comparable NV hardware, and pricing reports say it costs more. Cant really see whether this is true or not until the official launch.

The retailers are indicating it isn't a soft launch tho, and they will have stock.

Fozzik
09-30-2005, 04:07 PM
Well, it appears that ATI didn't just paper launch their Crossfire solution a few days ago, but adding insult to injury, they actually gave the impression to at least some review sites that product would be in stores. You'll notice I didn't mention the Crossfire "launch" here, mostly because I had a feeling...

I can't claim to be psychic or anything, I just went to check out all the usual online retailers on "launch" day, and couldn't find any Crossfire motherboards or master cards. This gave me the distinct impression that ATI was up to the old paper launch tricks again...and it turns out they were. As I said though, this time they seem to have told certain hardware reviewers that it would be a hard launch, which said reviewers then wrote in their articles...so ATI made them look slightly silly when launch day passed and no product is anywhere to be found. *frowns*

Honestly, I'm doing my best to be as kind as possible...but things are stacking up and I think pretty soon I may have to write about exactly what I think. I'm not really sure how Sigil feels about the way things are going with ATI (and we'll probably never know), but I sincerely hope that Sigil doesn't live to seriously regret the deal they made.

Come on, ATI... Get it together.

Fozzik
09-30-2005, 04:21 PM
In other, perhaps slightly more positive, news...

The Inquirer is reporting that the R520-based cards (or at least the high-end versions) will have 8 vertex engines to go along with their 16 pixel pipelines (remember that "pipelines" are mostly just a virtual way of looking at how many pixels can be messed with at a time...and different companies describe things differently). This is up from 6 vertex processing engines in previous cards.

The move to more vertex processing power might not make a lot of sense, considering pretty much no game on the market is currently using vertex shaders heavily enough to saturate current hardware. However (and this is a big caveat), we do know that Vanguard's character models and armor technology are going to use some sort of morphing to decrease processing overhead. All of the character models will be drawn using the same skeleton, which will be "morphed" into the various sizes and shapes for each race. Armor will be handled similarly, with a specific set of armor always using the same mesh, which will be stretched or shrunk as needed to fit a particular character.

This is speculation on my part, and it will be a long time before we know real details...but it's possible Sigil is using vertex shaders to handle all that "morphing" of armor and character skeletons. If they are, Vanguard may very well be a game that can make use of an increased number of vertex engines on a graphics card. In other words, Vanguard may very well get a performance edge from the new R520 cards from ATI. Of course... we'll have to wait and see.

When it comes to current games (and this might be the case with Vanguard as well, it's impossible to know), pixel shaders are much more heavily used. ATI's decision (if it was a decision, and not something forced on them by manufacturing problems) to stick with 16 pixel pipelines will almost definitely limit performance in the case of shader heavy games, compared to the 7800 GTX with it's 24 pixel pipelines. The pipelines can't be directly compared, of course... they could be very different, and maybe ATI's will be ub0r enough to make up for the deficit in shear numbers. We'll have to wait and see.

Orlun
09-30-2005, 04:30 PM
... are going with ATI (and we'll probably never know), but I sincerely hope that Sigil doesn't live to seriously regret the deal they made.

Come on, ATI... Get it together.

any details known about this 'deal'

How exactly will it effect us Nvida users?

Heloisa
09-30-2005, 04:38 PM
I don't know mate, I just can't get jazzed up about ATI and what they have to offer (even if they are Canadian! :D)

Guess I'm just brand loyal to nVidia. Mind you I've never owned an ATI card before either.

cheers :)

Fozzik
09-30-2005, 06:15 PM
I've been an Nvidia guy myself somewhat, but I'm usually perfectly willing to buy products from whoever has the best price, performance, features, etc... I've owned ATI cards and liked them just fine.

Let's hope the release of the R520 will give us some really hard choices when it comes to what video card to buy. Some of ATI's recent decisions have been troubling, and nothing answers questions better than a solid product. I can't wait to see what they've been working on all this time. ;)