class lead needs attention

[Corrbin]

I suggest the Devs and Wild read the recent posts on the official Vanguard rangers website. Especially the one entitled " Nerf Wild "
http://vgrangers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1900

Many of us rangers feel our class is being ignored due to the lack of attention we are receiving. We appreciate Wilds efforts to this point, but the fact she chooses to ignore the http://www.vgrangers.com/ forums a large part of the ranger family is going unheard.
It is understood that this position is voluntary but if your RL or guild is taking up to much time that you can't spend 5 min a day to make a post, then pass the torch on to someone who will.
In a game like this, that is in need of much fixing yet, communication is most important. There has been little to no communication from Wild on the VG rangers website in recent weeks, leaving the feeling in many that someone else should take over as Class Lead.
I have nothing against Wild, I am just speaking for a large part of the ranger community. This is not intended to be a flame in any way.
We Rangers just want to be heard, and not have the feeling that when we make a post, the person that should be relaying information to the Dev's will not see our concerns.

[Ahz Badaxe]

I like Wild but if she is to be Class Lead her primary goal should be relating to her class from a broad perspective not here in a guild forums but in the Ranger class forums. For that reason I feel Faelor should at least be looked at as a co-Lead if not the Class Lead. It would take Wild little time to address the at large ranger community on vgrangers.com. I realize this is a very thankless and difficult job and I also realize a lot goes on behind the scenes that we as a ranger class don't realize but there in lies the problem - if we could hear more feedback understand the adjustments from the bugs and have that information to work off of VG would retain more customers and deliver a better result/game. I know this is an opinion but I make it as a serious suggestion to help in situations like we had the past few days.

Tagar (sp?) had said in one of his posts that the first time he had seen an issue that had been present since beta was when all of this PATCH #1 was pushed to live... To me thats not acceptable...

[Kanzu]

I like Wild but if she is to be Class Lead her primary goal should be relating to her class from a broad perspective not here in a guild forums but in the Ranger class forums. For that reason I feel Faelor should at least be looked at as a co-Lead if not the Class Lead. It would take Wild little time to address the at large ranger community on vgrangers.com. I realize this is a very thankless and difficult job and I also realize a lot goes on behind the scenes that we as a ranger class don't realize but there in lies the problem - if we could hear more feedback understand the adjustments from the bugs and have that information to work off of VG would retain more customers and deliver a better result/game. I know this is an opinion but I make it as a serious suggestion to help in situations like we had the past few days.

Tagar (sp?) had said in one of his posts that the first time he had seen an issue that had been present since beta was when all of this PATCH #1 was pushed to live... To me thats not acceptable...


Agreed, and I am not even a Ranger. A class lead should work with the affiliated class site.

[Iwantthisgame]

Tagar (sp?) had said in one of his posts that the first time he had seen an issue that had been present since beta was when all of this PATCH #1 was pushed to live... To me thats not acceptable...

Agree with this as well we've been complaining about dex not affecting ranged attacks for quite awhile. I was actually a little shocked that he didn't know about it.

[Kitirat]

I suggest the Devs and Wild read the recent posts on the official Vanguard rangers website. Especially the one entitled " Nerf Wild "
http://vgrangers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1900

Many of us rangers feel our class is being ignored due to the lack of attention we are receiving. We appreciate Wilds efforts to this point, but the fact she chooses to ignore the http://www.vgrangers.com/ forums a large part of the ranger family is going unheard.
It is understood that this position is voluntary but if your RL or guild is taking up to much time that you can't spend 5 min a day to make a post, then pass the torch on to someone who will.
In a game like this, that is in need of much fixing yet, communication is most important. There has been little to no communication from Wild on the VG rangers website in recent weeks, leaving the feeling in many that someone else should take over as Class Lead.
I have nothing against Wild, I am just speaking for a large part of the ranger community. This is not intended to be a flame in any way.
We Rangers just want to be heard, and not have the feeling that when we make a post, the person that should be relaying information to the Dev's will not see our concerns.

Here is a unique story on this.

I originally was playing druid when I found out my friends who had played beta were all playing casters or healers (specifically psi's, shamans, sorcerer's and clerics) so I switched to an offensive fighter to try things out.

Playing ranger early on was ok, but was done mostly just to be near my friends. The class did ok damage and I could solo ok. As I leveled I started to find some strange things about rangers. (no abilities at 12 or 16th levels where everyone else has them, etc). I also felt for the first time class envy as my friends playing psi and shamans were just beating the crap out of things I could not imagine trying. Until 14th level my shaman friend routinely would win aggro for example. I started thinking I would likely reroll to a stronger class to have a better chance to be offered a group and to have more fun.

So fast forward to this week. After 6 weeks of almost no fixes for rangers (save a nerf to our single heal), a massive bug/nerf to our damage (I wanted to know if it was one or the other) and shamans getting a huge patch of improvements and Psi's getting new abilities, I figured I would check out the forums again to find out what our class lead Faelor was up to. (Yes you read that correctly). I mean when the strongest classes in the game are getting big updates and yours is weaker and getting ignored, you find interest in what the reasoning is.

See, I did not know we even had Wild as our class lead. I had never seen a post of relivance from her, I had seen 6 weeks of the class I was playing (which was poor compared to some others) get basically no fixes (as a note I feel for you rogues and monks, though monk looks like it got a lot better). If she worked great in Beta, woot! However finding out the Dev had NEVER seen anything about many of our issues till the uproar over this week's patch, coupled with her not even reading/posting on the associated site for RANGERS brings me to the conclusion she is not viewing the ranger community with interest and she seems way WAY WAY too passive to be a class lead.

Come on. Even in an appointed position a bit of coupability is required.

See ya,
Kitirat

P.S. I did notice that AFTER someone actually took the time to post she should be outed, only THEN did she post an update post (her previous post was 2/22/07). So it was not that she was watching, it was she was not putting in any time to it till her position was on the line. This was the big sting. Had she really been ill it is unlikely she "all the sudden" turned it around the same day as people started asking for her to be removed.

[Wild]

Hi, All:

I've been very ill and I've not done much posting anywhere. I have been reading and I have been talking with Avair and I have been active in /tells and in /ranger on Shidreth. Just been laying REALLY low lately due to just not having the energy.

I'm sure you've all experienced times like this yourselves.

I posted in a couple threads in vgrangers just this morning ... sorry you missed them! I tried to explain what's up and what's been going on.

Take care, all and PLEASE keep giving good feedback on brokenness. I can't do a lot about personal preferences because we all have them, but I can distill commonalities and bring them to Avair's attention. Please keep up your good work!

Thank you!

[InfiRanger]

Agreed, and I am not even a Ranger. A class lead should work with the affiliated class site.

Signed.

Wild, i am sorry you are ill, but for many reasons I do propose Faelor to be named Ranger class lead.

[Rickie]

I also thought at first Faelor was our class leader as he is so active on the rangers site.

I am for one thing very understanding about someone being ill and understand that people have to take a couple days off here and there to catch up on RL stuff.



I am level 33 and I play a considerable amount of time (every night 5 hours +), I do perfer the questiing over the grinding but I do still think I am over average in level then most people in the game.

I did find this intersting on vgplayers.com

http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/characters.vm?characterId=73014444227

I think Wild has had more then plenty amount of time to address alot of the issues with the rangers in the past 6 weeks and really nothing has been done untill a few days ago and posts started to be made on the ranger forum

I support a change. Sorry Wild nothing personal hun.

[Kitirat]

I also thought at first Faelor was our class leader as he is so active on the rangers site.

I am for one thing very understanding about someone being ill and understand that people have to take a couple days off here and there to catch up on RL stuff.



I am level 33 and I play a considerable amount of time (every night 5 hours +), I do perfer the questiing over the grinding but I do still think I am over average in level then most people in the game.

I did find this intersting on vgplayers.com

http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/characters.vm?characterId=73014444227

I think Wild has had more then plenty amount of time to address alot of the issues with the rangers in the past 6 weeks and really nothing has been done untill a few days ago and posts started to be made on the ranger forum

I support a change. Sorry Wild nothing personal hun.

WOW, I think that speaks worlds. Sick but able to find the first pauldrons 2 days ago?

I mean, play all ya want, have a blast, but 2+ weeks of not posting while continuous playing? Come on. At least post at the VGrangers a few times a week and maybe read the ranger boards once a week.

Could you at least contact Faelor and see if he could assist you in working towards collecting issues?

[Corrbin]

edited: inappropriate (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)

[Soluss]

I'm not even a ranger but I do know what it is like to not have a class lead. I also know quite a few rangers and read your boards as well. Sorry but if I were a ranger I would not want you as my class lead Wild.

You haven't posted on the ranger boards in a while, until today of course and I am sure that is because people want you out of office so to speak. I am sorry but you cannot neglect your duties if you want to keep that kind of position (paid or not). I know you claim you were sick the last two weeks, I do find it odd though that you were able to go from level 36 on 3/1/07 to level 45 on 3/7/07. You were so sick that you could not post on your own class boards about ranger issues, yet you were able to obtain 9 levels in 6 days during the same period... these are not easy levels either.

On top of that there has been issues with the rangers that the developers were not even aware of and were only brought to light by other posters as of the last update.

To me this is sad that you want the fluffy title and the ability to have the inside contact info, yet you don't want to do the job that goes with it. Personally I think that is a slap in the face to all that play rangers and its a disgrace.

[Vanboi123]

Rangers are geting ignored? ROFL, youve had every freaking patch practically dedicated to fixing you, and you get multiple devs saying rangers are geting fixed whenver something breaks on rangers

Rangers are NOT geting ignored, at all.

Monks are geting ignored.

[Iwantthisgame]

[Iwantthisgame]

Rangers are geting ignored? ROFL, youve had every freaking patch practically dedicated to fixing you, and you get multiple devs saying rangers are geting fixed whenver something breaks on rangers

Rangers are NOT geting ignored, at all.

Monks are geting ignored.

Oh really?

patch 1

ADVENTURING
- Shaman – Fixed an issue where you could receive your Patron Spirit quests too early causing you to not learn your Spirit Walk ability if completed before level 15. Those shaman who have finished the quests before level 15 should visit any shaman trainer to get their Spirit Walk ability upon reaching level 15. Followers of Tuurgin who have completed the quest line will need to speak to any Shaman Instructor and say “patronfix” to receive the Spirit Walk ability. NOTE: This only applies to those shaman who have completed the Patron Spirit questlines prior to this patch OR who were not yet level 15 when completed.

Hmm don't see much about rangers there

Patch 2

ADVENTURING

- The Druid, Necromancer and Psionicist have had there nuke damage increased.
- Bard – Invisibility song components are no longer maintained.
- Bard – Slightly lowered the movement increase for Tynen’s Components.
- Psionicist - Thought Pulse now has a 4 second refresh timer.
- Psionicist – Mirage is no longer a maintained ability.
- Shaman – Removed two abilities from the Rakurr (wolf) pet that were not intended.
- Shaman – Skin of Rakurr now grants 8% chance to crit instead of 108%.
- Shaman – Skin of Rakurr should now modify chance to crit for auto attack, too.
- Shaman – Skin of Rakurr’s movement speed bonus should no longer stack with other movement speed buffs.
- Shaman – Skin of Tuurgin now properly raises auto attack damage.
- Shaman – You should no longer be able to be in patron form while you have a summoned attendant.
- Shaman – Removed the + spell damage from Skin of Rakurr and lowered the melee damage mod by 2%.


Hmm no mention of rangers again

patch 3

ADVENTURING

- Bard - Song components will no longer automatically be added to the hotbar when you learn them, as you can't use them from there anyway.
- Bard - The Bard Trainer in Tursh should now sell instruments like other bard trainers
- Bard - Swirl of the Tempest (all ranks) now display their floating damage numbers correctly.
- Dread Knight – Increased the aggro modifiers of your special attacks. They are now similar to the other tanks.
- Druid - Increased the damage of the earthen brute’s attacks.
- Druid-“Lighting Strike” (rank 3-5) and “Call Lighting” (all ranks) no longer display “Resisted” when they are actually hitting and doing damage. The abilities were functioning correctly, just the over the head combat text was incorrect.
- Rogue – You can no longer pickpocket any race.
- Sorcerer - Summoned rings are now unique, no drop, and no rent as intended
- Warrior – Fixed an issue with the Defensive Form quest in Lomshir. You should now be able to complete the quest and get your defensive form.
- Counter spells have had their refresh times reduced.
- Hit points have been increased for the Sorcerer, Druid, Necromancer, Psioncist and Bloodmage.
- Upper damage melee attacks and percent attacks have had their endurance costs reduced.
- Upper damage ranged (bow) attacks, percent attacks and AE attacks have had their endurance costs reduced.

Not looking good for your claim bro

patch 4

ADVENTURING

- Bard – Increased the movement modifier on Tynen’s Melody of Acceleration to 28%
- Bard – Decreased the movement modifier on Tynen's Coda of Velocity to 3% from 5%
- Bard - Decreased the movement modifier on Tynen's Strain of the Swift to 2% from 3%
- Druid - Star Mantle should now last three hits.
- Druid - Summon Ancient Colossus is now obtained at level 50
- Druid - Retooled the abilities on the Ancient and Elder Colossi.
- Necromancer - Adjusted the level at which Necromancers can obtain the Art of Death quest (Rest of the Dead) from Level 16 to Level 20. If you have previously completed this quest line and did not automatically learn Rest of the Dead, check your trainer and it should be available at level 20.
- Necromancer – Removed Claw of Stunning, Face of Fright and Face of Cowering from the game. If you had these items they will now show up as red circles with red strikes through them. Please delete these from your inventories. Sorry for the inconvenience.
- Necromancer – Renamed Poison Claw to be Poisonous Claw.
- Necromancer – Poisonous Claw should now be functioning
- Necromancer – Adjusted Poisonous Claw to the correct levels.
- Necromancer – Renamed Gouging Claw to Diseased Claw.
- Necromancer – Adjusted Diseased Claw to the correct levels.
- Necromancer – Diseased Claw should now be functioning
- Necromancer – Adjusted Sapping Claw to the correct levels.
- Necromancer – Sapping Claw should now be functioning
- Warrior – Most commands now have seconds durations rather than number of attacks or hits.

the skies are grey...


patch 5

ADVENTURING
- Cleric – Fixed the particle effects on Renewal, you should no longer recast the spell every tick.
- Druid - Phenomena upgrades are now learned via use.
- Druid – Removed level 50 Phenomena from trainers.
- Druid - All phenomena of the same type should now be on the same refresh timer.
- Necromancer – Increased damage for claw grafts
- Necromancer – Removed broken grafts from loot tables.
- Necromancer – Added improved and new claw grafts to loot tables.
- Necromancer - Fixed the guardian’s taunt ability.
- Necromancer - Fixed the guardian’s auto attack
- Necromancer - Fixed the slayer’s auto attack.
- Psionicist – Timestop is now instant cast.
- Rogue - Completed the first pass on new rogue animations, particles, and sounds for abilities.
- Sorcerer - Amplify Destruction now increases damage by 50% instead of a flat 150.
- Sorcerer - Chromatic Barrier will now display 6 icons – one for each resistance type.
- Warrior - Taunting Strike II, III, and VI can now be trained.

if one didn't know better they might think you were absolutely wrong by this point

patch 6

ADVENTURING
- Monks and Disciples - Monk unarmed critical hit bonus now matches that of light weapons. The disciple critical hit bonus when unarmed was only slightly decreased.
- Bard – Increased the cost of Swirl of the Tempest to the appropriate amount.
- Bard – Calming Lullaby no longer causes global recovery, is now instant cast and has had its energy cost increased.
- Blood Mage – Cleansing Symbiote no longer spams particles every 10 seconds
- Disciple – Lowered the heal portion of Blessed Wind.
- Disciple – Lowered healing on Endowment of Life.
- Dread Knight – Vengeance is no longer on next attack, it is instant.
- Dread Knight – Removed refresh timer from Abyssal Chains.
- Necromancer - Zealots should now deal the proper amount of damage.
- Necromancer - Zealots should now attack quicker.
- Necromancer - Acolytes now increase in power as you level.
- Necromancer - Bloodfeast and Transmogrify now have a brief delay before the hit point to energy conversion begins.
- Necromancer – The strength portion granted by Legs of the Colossus has been reduced.
- Necromancer – Added Fists back to Graft tables. These should now work correctly.
- Necromancer – Adjusted the pet direct heal down. It now scales with current abomination hit points.
- Necromancer – Renamed Ribcage of Reinforcement to Sarcous Ribcage
- Necromancer – Sarcous Ribcage now grants AC only.
- Necromancer – Backbone of Strength is now Thewy Ribcage.
- Necromancer – Renamed Ribcage of Heartiness to Fleshy Ribcage.
- Necromancer – Fleshy Ribcage now grants CON only.
- Necromancer – Added Torso grafts to Necropsy tables. These should now function properly.
- Psionicist - Reduced the range on lure.
- Psionicist - All illusions should now turn you into the proper race.
- Psionicist - Mass Expansive Mind is now a group buff.
- Psionicist - Mind Wipe and Memory Shift should now display precise numbers for hate granted/subtracted.
- Psionicist - Simulacrum is intended to be an illusion for the entity it is cast on. It was a bug that other NPCs in the area gained aggro on the simulacrum. When the spell is initially cast other NPCs in area will gain a very small amount of hate on the caster. However, enemies that wander into range of the illusionary battle will continue past it thinking their ally is practicing its skills.
- Ranger – Grasp of Earth now actually uses the Alteration skill, instead of just claiming to.
- Ranger – You no longer hit yourself with Windsong for 0. This means it will no longer trigger Winter’s Cloak on yourself.
- Rogue - Updated all legacy rogue poison components to be cash items
- Shaman – Ritual of Sacrifice no longer incurs global recovery.
- Shaman - Tuurgin’s Vigor should now properly reduce endurance costs.
- Shaman - Tuurgin’s Vigor should now display correctly.
- Shaman - Throat Rip I and II should now deal damage over time as intended.
- Sorcerer – Energy Rift endurance cost has been fixed. It is now significantly more expensive. The previous energy cost was not the intended amount.
- Sorcerer – Chaos Volley now costs more energy to cast.

Oh snap a skills now uses the correct magic line and we no longer hit ourselves for 0 damage. ****ing devs and their ranger love!
[B]

[Iwantthisgame]

continued

patch 7

ADVENTURING
- All Classes – Combat skill pools have been tweaked. Defense skills have been added and removed, depending on your class.
- Casters - Crowd Control spells are now less likely to be resisted.
- Healers – The cost of healing spells has been slightly increased
- Melee – Standard attacks (Attacks that normal damage + a number such as Brutal Strike and Sever the Tie) have been reduced in cost.
- Bard – Charm can now be resisted like a normal spell.
- Bard – Water Dance no longer increases evasion by 18% at max level. It has been lowered to 10%.
- Bard – Reduced the amount of bonus block and parry by 1% for all levels of Water Dance.
- Bard – Water Dance has been changed to a straight parry bonus to enable more counter attacks. Evasion and dodge and parry equate to the same thing, the exception being that when you evade or dodge you cannot counter attack – and where is the fun in that?
- Bard – Hymn of the Lithe now increases only parry and dodge
- Bard – Removed the + block bonus from chorus of shielding.
- Bard – The problem preventing Striking the Mountain from doing the correct amount of damage has been fixed. It will now produce the high hits it was intended to.
- Bard – Lowered the cost of Thread the Needle to 18
- Bard – Adjusted the levels at which you get Swirl of the Tempest. The new levels are: 14, 22, 30, 38, 46. You may be entitled to learn a new version.
- Bard - Adjusted the levels at which you get Sever the Tie past level 8. The new levels are: 1, 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48. This is to give a more gradual damage bonus.
- Bard - Suann's Entrancing Trill now lasts for 18 seconds and is limited to one active. Hallelujah!!
- Bard – Reduced the energy cost of Suann's Entrancing Trill slightly.
- Blood Mage – Recovering Burst now costs health and its energy cost was lowered.
- Cleric – Revive has been changed to Resurrection and is still available only out of combat.
- Cleric – Resurrection has been changed to revive. It has been added to cleric trainers at lvl 22.
- Cleric – The buff on Maul of the Gods now affects ranged and auto attacks.
- Cleric – The buff on Maul of the Gods no longer stacks with Rage of Tuurgin.
- Disciple – Blessed Wind now actually heals your defensive target
- Disciple – Lowered endurance cost of Blessed Wind to 30
- Disciple – Lowered endurance cost of Blooming Ridge Hand to 30
- Dread Knight – Scythe of Doom now has a 10 second refresh
- Dread Knight – Scythe of Doom now only heals you for 25% of the damage done
- Dread Knight – Scythe of Doom now has a slightly lower endurance cost.
- Dread Knight – Archery has been added to your skill list
- Dread Knight – You now have the Great Spear specialization
- Dread Knight – Ominous Fate now has finite range.
- Dread Knight – Vile Strike should now animate correctly.
- Dread Knight – Phantasmal Blade should now animate correctly.
- Dread Knight – Ravaging Darkness now plays its animation at the right time. (this fix should also fix the 4 second delay before the ability functions – the endurance drain has an intended 2 second delay)
- Dread Knight – Lowered the cost of Ravaging Darkness down to what it should be.
- Dread Knight – Incantation of Hate should now animate correctly.
- Dread Knight – Scourge now deals instant damage instead of damage over time.
- Dread Knight – Abyssal Chains now states that it is Conjuration, instead of Alteration. (it was a display bug)
- Druid – Forage is now instant cast.
- Monk - Secret of Ice I should now be available from monk trainers.
- Monk - Diamond Body II is now properly named.
- Monk – Crane form now adds 8% to both block and parry at all levels. As you gain forms, the damage reduction is reduced. Once Immortal Crane is earned there is no damage penalty for adopting this form.
- Monk – Aum Ti now increases parry by 5% and lowers endurance costs by 20%.
- Monk – Drunken Sway has had its dodge bonus brought down to 10, 12 and 15%. The accuracy debuff on this form steadily decreases. Once Immortal Drunken Sway is earned the accuracy penalty is reduced to zero.
- Monk – Cloud Dragon’s Ruse I, II, and III should now always open finishing attacks as intended.
- Monk – Lurching Feint I, II, III should now always open finishing attacks as intended.
- Monk – Trapping Mantis Claw I, II, and III should now always open finishing attacks as intended.
- Monk – Gouging Claw and Sundering Claw should now display correctly.
- Monk – Divine Tsunami should now display correctly.
- Monk – Lurching Feint should now display correctly.
- Monk – Drunken Arms of the Cyclone should now display correctly.
- Monk – Impossible Drunken Palm should now display correctly.
- Monk – Legendary Fists should now display as a punch instead of a kick.
- Monk – Fists of Transcendence should now display as a punch instead of a kick.
- Monk – Thundering Fists should now display as a punch instead of a kick.
- Monk – Thousand Fists should now display as a punch instead of a kick
- Necromancer – Renamed Legs of the Colossus to Legs of the Brute.
- Necromancer – Skin of Mystics has been changed to Spiked Skin. This graft now grants your abomination a damage shield.
- Necromancer – Added Skin grafts and Leg grafts to Necropsy (including fixing old ones –or removing them)
- Necromancer - Necromancer direct damage and area effct spell cost slighty increased.
- Necromancer – The necromancer form quests have been revised. If you are on the necro quest “The Ritual” please abandon it and the new quests will be available to you.
- Paladin – You know have the Great Spear specialization
- Psionicist - Added a Psionicist trainer to Lomshir.
- Psionicist - Time Stop now has an eight-second refresh time.
- Psionicist – Increased the amount of regeneration given by Acumen.
- Psionicist - Spell line “Time Stop” now has diminishing returns as intended.
- Ranger – Decreased the effectiveness of Regrowth, increased its mana cost.
- Ranger – The cost of Cripple has returned to normal.
- Ranger – Evasive Form has been changed to a straight parry bonus, enabling you to counter attack more often. The evasion bonus often prevented you from performing counter attacks and had a compounding (and too powerful) effect on overall avoidance.
- Ranger – Talisman of the Panther now increases evasion by 5%.
- Ranger – Forage is now instant cast.
- Ranger – When you fletch arrows, they will now come in stacks of 10.
- Ranger – Whisper of the Wind no longer has diminishing returns.
- Rogue – Blinding Flash no longer expends Flash Powder, but it is required to be in your inventory.
- Rogue – Smoke Bomb now only consumes one Flash Powder when activated.
- Rogue – Positional Requirement removed from Drub
- Rogue – Refresh on Shank has been reduced to 30 seconds
- Rogue – Refresh on Ruin lowered to 30 seconds
- Rogue – Blinding Flash no longer breaks stealth
- Rogue – Arc of Daggers and Rogue’s Kiss should now work correctly. Upgrades have been added at various levels. You may need to check your trainer to get the latest version.
- Shaman – The damage buff on Rage of Tuurgin no longer stacks with Maul of the Gods.
- Shaman – Skin of Tuurgin will now increase damage by a percentage as is stated in the description.
- Shaman – Reduced the amount of percentage increase in damage on Skin of Tuurgin II and III to 22 and 25% respectively.
- Shaman – Spirit of Rakurr now lasts 1 hour.
- Shaman – Ritual of Sacrifice now has the intended refresh time of 2 seconds.
- Shaman - Shamans can now use Great Mauls when barshing things.
- Sorcerer – The endurance cost on Energy rift has been lowered to 30.
- Sorcerer – Endurance regeneration rate has been increase.
- Sorcerer – Reduced the energy cost of Energy Rift
- Sorcerer - Sorcerer direct damage and area effect spell cost increased.
- Warrior - “Strike Now” now lasts three seconds instead of for one attack.
- Warrior - The “Decimate” chain should now properly continue to “Obliterate” and “Destroy”
- Warrior - Enrage I and II now add directly to damage rather than enhancing strength.
- Warrior - Added Shield Wall to trainers.
- Warrior – The mitigation penalty for offensive stance now modifies your base mitigation instead of subtracting a flat amount.
- Warrior – Roar of Fury no longer breaks mez, no longer deals damage and has had its taunt increased.

A bug fixed. Our heal nerfed and a useless skill made slightly less useless but still nobody is going to use it. The devs really do pamper us don't they!

patch 8

ADVENTURING NOTES
- Protective Fighters – Rescues are now usable out of combat.
- Bard - Tynen's Chant of Chains is now a verse.
- Bard - Illestine's Epic Substitution should now increase Cold Resistance in addition to Fire.
- Bard – Mellarian’s Melody of War now correctly stacks with the Paladin’s Aura of Divine Power.
- Bard – Greatly reducing the energy cost of Calming Lullaby.
- Bard - Suann's Entrancing Trill now has a 2 second cast time.
- Bard - Suann's Call of Slumber now has a 2 second refresh time.
- Bard – Fence now has a 10 second refresh timer, down from 20.
- Bard – Hinder now has the proper amount of upgrades.
- Bard – The lyric, Hazoc's Magical Aria is now available at level 25. It was inadvertently left off trainers.
- Bard – Striking the Mountain now exploits armor chink.
- Bard - Cleave the Mountain I, II, III, and IV have been added to the trainer lists, and are available (at levels 22, 30, 38, and 46).
- Bard - Humming Blade - Would turn off after 72 minutes, this is fixed.
- Blood Mage – Quickening Symbiote now requires 1 Vial of Blood, 1 Still Beating Heart and 1 Quivering Brain to create. On the brighter side, these symbiotes can actually be created now.
- Blood Mage – Organs for creating symbiotes now stack
- Blood Mage – The assembly for Controlling Symbiote now correctly states you are making a controlling symbiote and not an animation symbiote
- Blood Mage – Vitalizing Symbiote now requires 3 Vials of Blood and no other components. These symbiotes can be created once again.
- Dread Knight - Armor of Darkness should now increase mitigation as intended.
- Dread Knight – Scourge will no longer get resisted as often.
- Disciple - Gift Of Vitae now adds endurance instead of subtracting.
- Disciple - Gift Of Vitae should no longer spam the caster.
- Monk - North Wind Breaks the Trunk should now cause the target to hurt itself upon attacking rather than healing itself.
- Monk - Form of the Spirit Dragon has been renamed Aspect of the Spirit Dragon.
- Monk - Aspect of the Spirit Dragon now grants invisibility.
- Monk - Soaring Leap should now actually cause you to leap.
- Necromancer – Fixed a bug with Ravaging Claw II, putting it inline with the rest of the claws.
- Necromancer - The wraith version of the plague bringer will now cast “Soul Vex” instead of “Soul Blight”. This should be considerably less confusing.
- Psionicist – NPCs now consider Time Stop to be a mez and not a stun.
- Ranger - Windsong now costs 10 endurance.
- Ranger – Your Talismans should no longer wear off after 4320 seconds of continuous playing.
- Ranger – Your Tiger Talisman now correctly gives a bonus to your auto attacks as well as your special attacks.
- Rogue – Relentless Thrust is now attainable at level 10 and has no refresh.
- Rogue – Drub has been increased in effectiveness
- Rogue – Drub now costs 10 endurance, down from 17
- Rogue – The Drub line of abilities has had some level changes. This gives it a more gradual hate reduction progression. New levels are 12, 20, 28, 36, 44
- Rogue – Clout now lasts for 6 seconds or 5 hits, up from 3 hits.
- Rogue – The Backstab line of attacks has had some level adjustments. New levels are 4, 12, 20, 28, 36, 44
- Rogue – The Shank line of finishing attacks has had some level adjustments. New levels are 12, 22, 32, 42.
- Rogue – The advanced version of shank are now actually upgrades.
- Rogue – The Wicked Strike line of attacks has had some level adjustments. New levels are 1, 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48.
- Rogue – The Last Ditch Strike line of attacks now deals increased damage, costs no endurance and does not incur global recovery.
- Rogue – Lacerate once again exploits Armor Chink.
- Rogue – Slightly increased the damage of the Lacerate line of attacks.
- Rogue – Note: There is a bug that is causing the damage display of lacerate and hemorrhage to show as much smaller than the actual damage done. The debuff tooltip (the one beneath the target’s display) is correct. This will be addressed soon.
- Rogue – The damage of Death Whirl has been increased.
- Rogue – Death Whirl now exploits staggered.
- Rogue – Slightly increased the damage of Ravage.
- Rogue – Ravage will now stun for 3 seconds on a critical hit.
- Rogue – Relentless Thrust have been renamed to Vicious Strike.
- Rogue – Vicious Strike (the attack formerly know as Relentless Strike) now deals additional damage on a critical hit.
- Rogue – Deadly Strike has been added to trainers starting at level 26.
- Rogue – Impale has been added to trainers starting at level 18.
- Rogue – Shiv has been added to trainers starting at level 22.
- Rogue – Knee Break has been added to trainers starting at level 4.
- Rogue – Revenge has been added to trainers starting at level 6.
- Rogue – Dazzling Flechette II and Advanced Dazzling Flechette II no longer function.
- Rogue – Dazzling Flechette I and Advanced Dazzling Flechette I now have a different function and have been moved to level 15.
- Warrior - Devastating Blow now correctly displays that it roots the target for 3 seconds.
- Warrior – Roar of Fury now states the correct amount of hate it adds instead of stating it increases hate by 0.

Oh snap they actually fixed something important. It only took 8 patches!

patch 9

ADVENTURING NOTES
- General Combat – Removed unintended sympathetic combinations from the game.
- Bard - Asilam’s Disenchanting Cry II and III have been added to trainers.
- Bard - Added the following abilities to bard trainers: Energizing Embellishment, Cirel's Counterpoint of Clarity, Illestine's Epic Substitution, and Asilam's Dirge of the Mariner. These abilities were unintentionally left off.
- Blood Mage – Ritual of Awakening now lasts for 5 minutes, instead of 2 minutes.
- Blood Mage – Strip Enchantment II, III, and IV have been added to trainers.
- Blood Mage – Strip Enchantment has increased in effectiveness.
- Blood Mage – Quickening Symbiote now requires a quickening symbiote to cast instead of a renewing one.
- Blood Mage – Conducive Symbiote is now removed when another symbiote is cast over it.
- Blood Mage – Quickening Jolt no longer requires a symbiote to cast.
- Blood Mage – You now have to stay in your forms for at least 2 seconds before you can switch out of it.
- Blood Mage - Removed incorrect text on Focus of Gelenia and Sanguine Focus. Both were claiming to produce effects over time which were not actually occurring.
- Blood Mage - Despoil should now display its animation properly.
- Blood Mage – Severing Ritual has gotten a face lift. It now has a damage over time component and costs only 3 blood union.
- Blood Mage – New ability line Translucence has been added to the blood mage at level 10.
- Blood Mage – The Severing Ritual ability line has had its particle effects adjusted.
- Blood Mage – Blood Feast is now group and lasts 15 minutes.
- Cleric - Aegis of Blades IV will now buff the cleric as intended. Further, it will display damage correctly.
- Dread Knight - Despoil has increased in effectiveness.
- Dread Knight - Despoil II and III have been added to trainers.
- Druid – Okeli’s Shield should no longer be on trainers twice.
- Druid - Sageberries have significantly increased in potency.
- Druid - Added Sageberries II, III, and IV to trainers.
- Druid - Hibernate will now only work on Creatures and Fey as intended.
- Monk - North Wind Breaks the Trunk II is now level 50.
- Necromancer – Sundering Fist grafts now attach the proper ability to your abomination – this increased the damage of these fists
- Paladin - Stalwart Soul is now obtained at level 10.
- Psionicist - Time Trick is now arcane rather than mental.
- Psionicist - Temporal Shift now slows the target’s melee attack rate.
- Psionicist - Psionicists should now be able to max all of their perception skills as intended.
- Rogue – Added Fade to trainers at level 26
- Rogue – Added Deter to trainers at level 12
- Rogue – Added Trick Attack to trainers at level 22
- Rogue – Added Fatal Stroke to trainers at level 30
- Rogue – Added Eviscerate to trainers at level 44
- Rogue – Added Smoke Trick to trainers at level 18
- Rogue – Keen Eye now increases critical hit chance by 8%, up from 2%
- Rogue – Increased the energy cost of Keen Eye
- Rogue – All versions of Knee Break now show an icon when applied to your target.
- Rogue – All version of Knee Break require the kick skill. This will mean that all rogues with low kick skill (*cough* all of them *cough*) may not be able to hit with this skill until their skill values are raised.
- Rogue – Added Vital Strikes to trainers starting at level 34
- Rogue – Reduced the refresh timer of Elusive Mark to 5 minutes, down from 10
- Rogue – Opponents who are confused by your Feint ability are much more susceptible to attacks like backstab. Experiment to see what we mean.
- Shaman - Purge I through IV have all increased in effectiveness.
- Shaman - Purge V has been replaced by Wardship of Krigus.
- Sorcerer - Disenchant has increased in effectiveness.
- Sorcerer - Disenchant II, III, and IV have been added to trainers.
- Warrior - Leap Attack is no longer a valid ability.
- Warrior - Killing Blow III is now obtainable at level 50 as intended.

uh oh they forgot about us again

update 1


ADVENTURE NOTES

- All Classes
- Some attacks remain direct attacks. These are intended to be lower in damage, but have alternate uses and should be less expensive overall. These debuff, buff and are not intended to be used to be a main source of damage.
- Players can now learn new abilities by observing their enemies.
- Cleric
- Your finishing moves now all cost 10 endurance
- Maul of the Gods and Maul of Divinity now use a percentage of weapon damage instead of being direct attacks.
- Dread Knight |
- Increased the damage of Dark Bastion, Incite, Inflame, Shield of Fear, and Scourge.
- Scythe of Doom now drains for 100% of the damage it deals
-Disciple
- Increased the damage of Falling Petal, White Lotus Strike, Soul Cutter and Lao’Jin Burst
- Monk
- Counter attacks are now cost free
- Many finishing attacks were more costly than intended. Endurance costs have been lowered.
- Many attacks have been converted over to use weapon damage directly, either flat or percent based. This will increase over all damage and give better returns when upgrading weapons and increasing strength. Affected attacks are:
- Ashen Hand
- Crescent Kick
- Dragon's Rage
- Sundering Dragon Claw
- Fists of Transcendence
- Legendary Fists
- Flying Kick
- Kick of the Heavens
- Thousand Fists
- Three Finger Strike
- Thundering Fists
- Deadly Adder Hand
- Celestial Kick of the Master
- Withering Palm
- Stinging Backfist
- Steal the Wind
- Quivering Palm
- Paladin
- Stroke of Conviction now progresses differently to provide a more steady progression of hate. The new levels are: 20, 28, 36, 44, 50
- Maul of Valus has been added to trainers starting at level 18. This is a new line of finishing attacks that follows Hammer of Valus.
- Stroke of Fervor has been added to trainers starting at level 30. This is a new line of finishing attacks that follows Stroke of Conviction.
- Holy Strike and Blade of Vol Anari now deal their additional effects to fiendish races as well. Ulvari hunters rejoice!
- Ranger
- Increased the damage of Fleetblade
- Shaman
- Claw of Winter is now a standard attack that uses weapon damage.
- Warrior
- Increased the damage of Smash
- Increased the damage and hate portion of Overwhelm

lawl thanks for the fleetblade damage, oh yea don't forgot they completely ruined our ranged damage in this one.



So now that we've shown just how full of shit you are why don't we get back on topic.

[Vanboi123]

Wow you are a true moron for taking that literally, you know aswell as I do rangers have been geting nothing but love in almost all the patches

if I told you EVERYONE in WoW was a retarded kiddy, you would believe me to right?


ROFL.

[Iwantthisgame]

Wow you are a true moron for taking that literally, you know aswell as I do rangers have been geting nothing but love in almost all the patches

if I told you EVERYONE in WoW was a retarded kiddy, you would believe me to right?


ROFL.

I believe I just showed that rangers have gotten very of little of anything in the patches. Argue with the patch notes buddy.

[buckeye]

The truth is since release, Rangers have been progressively, unnecessarily nerfed or broken. Read the patch notes--the proof is there. To state otherwise is totally false.

[bitter_bloodmage_01]

Honestly its time for Wild to resign.

And why don't you do the ranger community a favor and just step aside? You are hurting us. Why would you want to do that? Just let someone more invigorated take the job. You basically admitted you have a lack of passion for being a class leader. STEP DOWN.

Who can we email at sigil to put the wheels in motion for her removal?

[Arven]

Honestly its time for Wild to resign.

And why don't you do the ranger community a favor and just step aside? You are hurting us. Why would you want to do that? Just let someone more invigorated take the job. You basically admitted you have a lack of passion for being a class leader. STEP DOWN.

Who can we email at sigil to put the wheels in motion for her removal?

Alright, Frankly I have had enough of this. Please tell me exactly what wild has done to "hurt" the rangers.
She didn't POST for 2 weeks. That is it. Im tired of seeing this crap of our UNPAID connection between us and the devs is hurting our class. She has been reporting what we put in the ranger sticky. The ONLY thing that could even come close to saying that she has hurt us is when a dev stated he didnt know about the dex bug on our ranged attacks in which I think he was just plain out lieing. What exactly do you expect wild to accomplish? She has no power other than being in touch with a few devs and letting them know our concerns. She can't make them put tracking in or to fix any of our useless utility spells. All she can do is make them aware of us not being happy.

So again, please explain in detail what she has done to "hurt" our class. The only problem I have at all with our class lead isn't even so much a problem about the class lead then it is that I think our class lead and the devs that work on the ranger should be visiting and posting on vgrangers instead of here. If you want to put blame on someone, put it where it should be, On the devs.

[valfaroth]

Just wanted to mention that not all rangers agree with this. There's a high concentration of beligerent and whiney rangers who think they speak for everyone.

Many rangers seem to think every patch should be about them, and that everyone else should just wait till they are fixed.

Many rangers disagree though and think Wild is doing a great job. They just don't feel like slamming their heads against the wall that is the beligerent. (Main reason for this ranger to leave the so-called "community")

The fact is more people get information here, Including many rangers that do not visit the VGRangers site for whatever reason.

Vanguard is not all about Rangers.

[teel]

fact of the matter is rangers have had very little attention over last few weeks 2 lines in the last 2 patches isnt good enough for the majority of the ranger community.

This in my opinion isnt nessessarily the fault of Wild however due to the lack of information from wild we find ourselves in a position of wondering if or what wild is doing thats the harsh reality.

Wild could be working all the hours god sends in order to help the class yet we have heard nothing especialliy over at vgrangers which is the ideal portal for the ranger class lead to pass information to rangers.

I wouldnt want to see wild replaced atm i'd just like to here from her

[valfaroth]

vgrangers isn't ideal for the people who only want to browse one forum and they choose the one that is more generalized. (ie SV)....nothing is ideal for everyone.....sorry if it's not ideal for you but SV is ideal for others. That argument should be dead by now......

....heard nothing from wild? you just aren't reading then...she has posted at vgrangers and here.....you must mean during the time she was sick. Yeah I imagine it would be frustrating not to have someone working during the time they are sick. (note the sarcasm)

[teel]

Just wanted to mention that not all rangers agree with this. There's a high concentration of beligerent and whiney rangers who think they speak for everyone.

Many rangers seem to think every patch should be about them, and that everyone else should just wait till they are fixed.

Many rangers disagree though and think Wild is doing a great job. They just don't feel like slamming their heads against the wall that is the beligerent. (Main reason for this ranger to leave the so-called "community")

The fact is more people get information here, Including many rangers that do not visit the VGRangers site for whatever reason.

Vanguard is not all about Rangers.


funny ive been sick last week had 2 days off work genuine illness yet managed to post on numerous forums and level up my ranger at the same time

as im sure wild has put in some work on levelling her ranger getting to 45 would not be poss if she had been bed ridden for 2 weeks, if u can play u can post

end of story

as for vgrangers its a class specific forum and its too much to ask the class lead to pop in on a daily basis,

Im not asking for a change or flaming any work she is or isnt doing im only suggesting she gets more involved in keeping us informed and talking about issues.
vgrangers isn't ideal for the people who only want to browse one forum and they choose the one that is more generalized. (ie SV)....nothing is ideal for everyone.....sorry if it's not ideal for you but SV is ideal for others. That argument should be dead by now......

....heard nothing from wild? you just aren't reading then...she has posted at vgrangers and here.....you must mean during the time she was sick. Yeah I imagine it would be frustrating not to have someone working during the time they are sick. (note the sarcasm)

[valfaroth]

you don't see a difference between mindlessly grinding in a game or hunting down devs and trying to get answers on everything you can then putting all those answers together into a post and trying to be civil to people who aren't really all that civil to begin with?

posting as a user is different than posting as a "representative"....and...

while you may post to forums while you are sick doesn't mean everyone else does too.

sorry, but a little respect and understanding would probably go a long way here. (that's just not something i'm seeing from much of the "community")

[Arven]

fact of the matter is rangers have had very little attention over last few weeks 2 lines in the last 2 patches isnt good enough for the majority of the ranger community.

This in my opinion isnt nessessarily the fault of Wild however due to the lack of information from wild we find ourselves in a position of wondering if or what wild is doing thats the harsh reality.

Wild could be working all the hours god sends in order to help the class yet we have heard nothing especialliy over at vgrangers which is the ideal portal for the ranger class lead to pass information to rangers.

I wouldnt want to see wild replaced atm i'd just like to here from her

What harsh reality? Rangers havent recieved much in the last couple of patches is enough to want our class lead beheaded? Look, I am the first to admit we have a lot of broken utility stuff. Our pet summon is a joke, they broke a good number of ranged attacks in the last patch, I still stay our Styles is broken even if they say its working fine. but NONE of this is wilds fault. She has reported this stuff to the devs, what more do you want? You want daily posts that just repeat what the day before says.

Hi, this is wild checking in, same as yesterday, our shit is still broke and the devs know it.

I mean get serious for a minute. She has reported this stuff and sure she might not post every day or heck even take a week or two off for being sick or even if she wasnt and just wanted to get in some quality game time, you guys are ready to take her head off. Yet in this same amount of time, NOTHING has changed. Well, they screwed up our range damage but that was a screw up and not her fault at all. they are still working on our stuff and will get to it, whenever they feel like it. I think it sucks, I want my stuff fixed right now, but I am not going to get it. they will get to it when they can. We can bitch and wild can report that we are still unhappy but its not going to make things move any faster.

Sorry, I just think this nerf wild stuff has gotten out of hand and I am really starting to be embarrassed to say I am part of the ranger community.

[valfaroth]

ding ding ding.....I agree 8)

[bitter_bloodmage_01]

Wild made 15 HARD LEVELS while she was "sick". Its an excuse that the community isn't buying. So come off that bullshit.

Fact is there has been no communication from the devs or Wild regarding rangers in the past 2+ weeks and 2 patches.

Now we are severely broken. Our offensive stance doesnt work, our ranged damage is plagued by bugs. Rangers have been a 30% reduction in ranged damage. What the hell is going on? Why hasn't Tagad been able to isolate the problem?

Poison shot has been removed from the game essentially, dealing 1 damage over time. What isnt broken about the class??


Fix rangers, and wild move aside.

[Arven]

fact of the matter is rangers have had very little attention over last few weeks 2 lines in the last 2 patches isnt good enough for the majority of the ranger community.

This in my opinion isnt nessessarily the fault of Wild however due to the lack of information from wild we find ourselves in a position of wondering if or what wild is doing thats the harsh reality.

Wild could be working all the hours god sends in order to help the class yet we have heard nothing especialliy over at vgrangers which is the ideal portal for the ranger class lead to pass information to rangers.

I wouldnt want to see wild replaced atm i'd just like to here from her

Wild made 15 HARD LEVELS while she was "sick". Its an excuse that the community isn't buying. So come off that bullshit.

Fact is there has been no communication from the devs or Wild regarding rangers in the past 2+ weeks and 2 patches.

Now we are severely broken. Our offensive stance doesnt work, our ranged damage is plagued by bugs. Rangers have been a 30% reduction in ranged damage. What the hell is going on? Why hasn't Tagad been able to isolate the problem?

Poison shot has been removed from the game essentially, dealing 1 damage over time. What isnt broken about the class??


Fix rangers, and wild move aside.

Ok, so you haven't seen anything new in 2 weeks, there hasn't been anything new in 2 weeks and your blaming wild for this?

Our ranged problems (including poison shot)have been CONFIRMED by the devs and they are working on fixing it. Obviously it didnt make it into todays patch, why aren't you crying that the devs be fired? Why is this wilds fault?

The devs posted they tested offensive stance and said it was working fine. While I dont believe them, that still is not wilds fault.

Seems like the only gripe you really have is that wild posted nothing for 2 weeks and gained 15 levels of play during that time while she stated she was sick. Well the only thing I can say here is get over it. There was not anything new to be posted during that time, again what more do you want from her? You want her to post every day saying the exact same thing over and over again?

You say we are severely broken yet the only thing that has changed in the two weeks is the ranged damage bug that they introduced in update #1 which hurt us but didnt break us. Yes we have several utility spells that are broken and have been broken for a while, Again wild has mentioned this stuff to the devs and again the devs will fix it at some point in time. Obviously not as fast as we want them to be fixed (and yes that does tick me off) but this again is not wilds fault. So please, explain yourself more in why wild should step down. You have shown nothing so far other than your hatred for her gaining 15 levels while she was sick.

[Iwantthisgame]

Ok, so you haven't seen anything new in 2 weeks, there hasn't been anything new in 2 weeks and your blaming wild for this?

Our ranged problems (including poison shot)have been CONFIRMED by the devs and they are working on fixing it. Obviously it didnt make it into todays patch, why aren't you crying that the devs be fired? Why is this wilds fault?

The devs posted they tested offensive stance and said it was working fine. While I dont believe them, that still is not wilds fault.

Seems like the only gripe you really have is that wild posted nothing for 2 weeks and gained 15 levels of play during that time while she stated she was sick. Well the only thing I can say here is get over it. There was not anything new to be posted during that time, again what more do you want from her? You want her to post every day saying the exact same thing over and over again?

You say we are severely broken yet the only thing that has changed in the two weeks is the ranged damage bug that they introduced in update #1 which hurt us but didnt break us. Yes we have several utility spells that are broken and have been broken for a while, Again wild has mentioned this stuff to the devs and again the devs will fix it at some point in time. Obviously not as fast as we want them to be fixed (and yes that does tick me off) but this again is not wilds fault. So please, explain yourself more in why wild should step down. You have shown nothing so far other than your hatred for her gaining 15 levels while she was sick.

I like wild. I might not like the lack of posting at VGrangers and I surely don't like being told the reason for this is that she uses this board more. I don't think that's acceptable from someone who took the positon she did. That being said I still like her and want her to be begin using the outlet chosen by most rangers to talk to and about rangers. I want her to read and participate in discussions at Vgrangers.

For an example of why people feel they aren't being properly represented. We've been /bugging and making threads/posts about dex not affecting strength for weeks. The fact that Tagad didn't hear about it until my thread on ranged damage after update 1 is disheartening and doesn't speak well for the claims that the ranger community is indeed being listened to by its lead.

[Arven]

I like wild. I might not like the lack of posting at VGrangers and I surely don't like being told the reason for this is that she uses this board more. I don't think that's acceptable from someone who took the positon she did. That being said I still like her and want her to be begin using the outlet chosen by most rangers to talk to and about rangers. I want her to read and participate in discussions at Vgrangers.

For an example of why people feel they aren't being properly represented. We've been /bugging and making threads/posts about dex not affecting strength for weeks. The fact that Tagad didn't hear about it until my thread on ranged damage after update 1 is disheartening and doesn't speak well for the claims that the ranger community is indeed being listened to by its lead.

I agree that I want her to post more over at vgrangers, I wont argue that point. However she did make it clear in the sticky at vgrangers that she posts here.
As for the dex bug, eh, I am not so sure that the devs didnt know about it. Tagad might not have, but i'm sure someone there did and it just slipped past them. Don't you find it more strange that you actually /bugged it and yet they state they never seen it before? Makes you wonder what /bugging actually does....

[Relenap]

I agree that I want her to post more over at vgrangers, I wont argue that point. However she did make it clear in the sticky at vgrangers that she posts here.
As for the dex bug, eh, I am not so sure that the devs didnt know about it. Tagad might not have, but i'm sure someone there did and it just slipped past them. Don't you find it more strange that you actually /bugged it and yet they state they never seen it before? Makes you wonder what /bugging actually does....

First off I only quoted this because I completely agree with everything Arven has said up until now. All of the posts have been pretty level headed and well written.

I just wanted to chime in to say that I think everyone is taking the Wild bashing a little to far. Give her a break. She was sick and instead of wanting to work during that time she felt like kicking back and relaxing a bit. Frankly I would have done the same in her position. As already stated somewhere in the thread, posting as a Rep and posting as a community member are two very diffrent things.

Honestly I think she did the right thing. I personally feel that any class lead should first take their toon to the level cap so they can personally test anything that is reported to them firsthand. Not that anyone would report false information but I think it looks three fold better when you say "I recieved a report from XXX about YYY doing ZZZ to little damage. After thoroughly testing it myself on many diffrent types of mobs of verious levels and difficulties, I can also conclude that it is not up to snuff with similar skills." over "Hey Billybob said that his S*** is broked. Could ya fix it? :P" So by all means if you are reading this Wild, take your toon to 50. Get firsthand experience with every level of ranger so you know where the flaws lie. THEN you can start to discuss where the biggest issues are and what needs fixed in order of greatest to least.

Everyone else, lay off. If you were sick and called off work are you telling me you would play a little to unwind? Isn't that what a game is for? Personally I would be sitting in my chair with a blanket and chicken noodle soup while taking out my frustration over being sick on any hostile mob I could find. If I'm in pain, SOMEONE is going to share that with me!

Anyways that's my two cents. Personally I am a bard with an unrolled ranger alt (read: I want to make a ranger alt but darn diplomacy and barding aren't making it easy). I don't wanna have to track down my class lead at VGbards when he/she would be much easier to find here. At least you know they SHOULD post here while they don't have to cater to you and post where you tell them to. If you want the information I think you should take the initiative and find them. They shouldn't have to go to two or three diffrent places to post the same thing.

[teel]

Ok, so you haven't seen anything new in 2 weeks, there hasn't been anything new in 2 weeks and your blaming wild for this?

Our ranged problems (including poison shot)have been CONFIRMED by the devs and they are working on fixing it. Obviously it didnt make it into todays patch, why aren't you crying that the devs be fired? Why is this wilds fault?

The devs posted they tested offensive stance and said it was working fine. While I dont believe them, that still is not wilds fault.

Seems like the only gripe you really have is that wild posted nothing for 2 weeks and gained 15 levels of play during that time while she stated she was sick. Well the only thing I can say here is get over it. There was not anything new to be posted during that time, again what more do you want from her? You want her to post every day saying the exact same thing over and over again?

You say we are severely broken yet the only thing that has changed in the two weeks is the ranged damage bug that they introduced in update #1 which hurt us but didnt break us. Yes we have several utility spells that are broken and have been broken for a while, Again wild has mentioned this stuff to the devs and again the devs will fix it at some point in time. Obviously not as fast as we want them to be fixed (and yes that does tick me off) but this again is not wilds fault. So please, explain yourself more in why wild should step down. You have shown nothing so far other than your hatred for her gaining 15 levels while she was sick.


u posted this in reference to my post. I seem to be being accused by one or two for wanting wild removed yet ive never once suggested she should be removed in any way shape or form.

Please if ure going to quote and flame me at least read what ive put first

Ive merley suggested that id like to here from here my post read that wild could be working all the hours god sends with the devs to acheive something yet if she doesnt relay that message to the community then "the community" will form opinions.

I also agree with the fact id like to see her post more often on vgrangers it doesnt even have to be about related issues shes a class lead with a level 45+ ranger id like to know about her experiences how she works within groups what class she duos well with etc etc etc.. cmon is this too much to ask from a class lead.

for the record I DO NOT WANT HER REPLACED i dont know anything about her to ask for that I merley like to read what she has to say regarding our class

[Arven]

fact of the matter is rangers have had very little attention over last few weeks 2 lines in the last 2 patches isnt good enough for the majority of the ranger community.

This in my opinion isnt nessessarily the fault of Wild however due to the lack of information from wild we find ourselves in a position of wondering if or what wild is doing thats the harsh reality.

Wild could be working all the hours god sends in order to help the class yet we have heard nothing especialliy over at vgrangers which is the ideal portal for the ranger class lead to pass information to rangers.

I wouldnt want to see wild replaced atm i'd just like to here from her

funny ive been sick last week had 2 days off work genuine illness yet managed to post on numerous forums and level up my ranger at the same time

as im sure wild has put in some work on levelling her ranger getting to 45 would not be poss if she had been bed ridden for 2 weeks, if u can play u can post

end of story

as for vgrangers its a class specific forum and its too much to ask the class lead to pop in on a daily basis,

Im not asking for a change or flaming any work she is or isnt doing im only suggesting she gets more involved in keeping us informed and talking about issues.

u posted this in reference to my post. I seem to be being accused by one or two for wanting wild removed yet ive never once suggested she should be removed in any way shape or form.

Please if ure going to quote and flame me at least read what ive put first

Ive merley suggested that id like to here from here my post read that wild could be working all the hours god sends with the devs to acheive something yet if she doesnt relay that message to the community then "the community" will form opinions.

I also agree with the fact id like to see her post more often on vgrangers it doesnt even have to be about related issues shes a class lead with a level 45+ ranger id like to know about her experiences how she works within groups what class she duos well with etc etc etc.. cmon is this too much to ask from a class lead.

for the record I DO NOT WANT HER REPLACED i dont know anything about her to ask for that I merley like to read what she has to say regarding our class


You say you dont want her replaced but your earlier words are saying she isn't doing her job. And please reread my posts and tell me where I have flamed anyone? You have in fact stated you don't want her replaced but you did insinuate that she may have lied about her illness.

Did you see any new updates during that time? Did our patch notes reveal anything new that needed to be looked at? Again, the point I was making is, She can only tell the devs so many times the current state of our class. They can only give her so many replies about that current state. You keep hassling the devs enough and they are just going to quit talking to you. Nothing new was given to her, she in turn didnt have anything to give to us, so she didnt post.

You know it is possible to play a video game while sick and not post on forums right? Seeing a 3d world is in many cases much easier on the eyes than reading a bunch of words on a screen. It is also possible to not even be able to focus on the letters when you are trying to read them. Luckily in a 3d world with your guildmates and teamspeak, it relieves that function of having to read the words coming across the screen.

So while you may have been ill and was able to play and post, it doesn't mean that everyone in the world can do it or it doesn't mean you had the same illness that wild had.

[teel]

You say you dont want her replaced but your earlier words are saying she isn't doing her job. And please reread my posts and tell me where I have flamed anyone? You have in fact stated you don't want her replaced but you did insinuate that she may have lied about her illness.

Did you see any new updates during that time? Did our patch notes reveal anything new that needed to be looked at? Again, the point I was making is, She can only tell the devs so many times the current state of our class. They can only give her so many replies about that current state. You keep hassling the devs enough and they are just going to quit talking to you. Nothing new was given to her, she in turn didnt have anything to give to us, so she didnt post.

You know it is possible to play a video game while sick and not post on forums right? Seeing a 3d world is in many cases much easier on the eyes than reading a bunch of words on a screen. It is also possible to not even be able to focus on the letters when you are trying to read them. Luckily in a 3d world with your guildmates and teamspeak, it relieves that function of having to read the words coming across the screen.

So while you may have been ill and was able to play and post, it doesn't mean that everyone in the world can do it or it doesn't mean you had the same illness that wild had.


mm think ure missing my point never mind not gonna argue we all have our opinions Im not saying she isnt doing a good job im saying she isnt telling us anything that keeps us informed of the job she is doing

Theres a huge difference

as for illness cmon if u can play u can post simple as that

[Arven]

mm think ure missing my point never mind not gonna argue we all have our opinions Im not saying she isnt doing a good job im saying she isnt telling us anything that keeps us informed of the job she is doing

Theres a huge difference

as for illness cmon if u can play u can post simple as that

Gotcha! I might have misread something into your text. it is easily done as you dont have the voice/face being there to show expression.

As for illness. I can say this. I have had times that I could play games but not read words due to the severe headache factor. If you have never experienced this, I hope you never do. it isn't pleasant.

[teel]

Gotcha! I might have misread something into your text. it is easily done as you dont have the voice/face being there to show expression.

As for illness. I can say this. I have had times that I could play games but not read words due to the severe headache factor. If you have never experienced this, I hope you never do. it isn't pleasant.

I hope i never do to :)

on a very final note I like to think im big enough a person to say when ive been wrong, my points have been valid but

I have just popped on to vgrangers and seen a bunch of posts in number of topics by wild little bits of hints and tips etc or a quick yeh devs know about this and its being looked at

all this kind of stuff doesnt take long but shows that shes here watching and taking note people grow in confidence over a person when this happens, I know I do

gj wild :)

[AvairSGO]

I have a hard time reading this post guys. Wild has been one of the most active class leads since we began the class lead program. I understand that when things don't get done you point to the face of the class and in this case it’s Wild. Please direct frustrations toward me if you have any about the class. Wild gives adequate representation, I speak to her daily if not every few hours about ranger issues. We are well aware of issues that rangers face and we are working on getting things straightened out.

A lot of miscommunication happens when not everyone, including Wild - or any class lead, knows all that happens internally while making the game. We do not have time or desire to explain the inner workings of everything - we would rather be fixing things and moving forward. Imagine explaining all of the facets of your job to everyone and then explaining why something went wrong or why something is lower priority than something else. I don’t think that it would be easy and would take quite a bit of time that could be better spent elsewhere.

The reason rangers aren't seeing many fixes lately (though you have got some coming up) is because we are focusing our attention toward fixing rogue poisons and adjusting classes that didn't get as much love as the ranger did during beta, along with bug fixing. The ranger was iterated on like 3-4 times during beta whereas most other classes were done once, maybe twice. This is not to say that we don't pay attention or fix things for the ranger, its just saying that we aren't spending full time adjusting the ranger right now.

Speaking to Wild's credentials for being a class lead, as I'm sure many of you are interested, she had a level 48 ranger, level 40 ranger (capped at the time) and a level 20 ranger in beta, amongst other lower level ranger alts. Not to mention her current ranger which is level 49.

In conclusion, I speak to not only Wild but Faelor as well. They both have my email and IM, which they both use frequently. I read many forums including Silky Venom and VG Rangers to get perspectives of the class. We have many areas to focus on but there are gates that block us and different priorities constantly. We will fix the bugs that come in and incorporate your feedback as well as the feedback we receive from Wild (they are one in the same). Thanks for being concerned and passionate about your class and providing valuable feedback, I do hear about it and see it.

[Mustang68]

Avair, thank you for your update. I've actually shelved my ranger for the time being because I figured I'd wait until things were properly fixed, but for a long time I don't think any of us knew whether anyone at Sigil was aware of the problems. As there are so many other interesting classes to explore, I've had no problem waiting, but I am hopeful that things will get fixed in the near future.

[Rooter]

Wild was absolutely fantastic in beta and she's been a real gem since launch as well. I'll occasionally login to her server to ask her some brief questions or make a comment and she has always been very gracious with her time.

Keep up the good work, Wild! :D

[Cassp0nk]

I have a hard time reading this post guys. Wild has been one of the most active class leads since we began the class lead program. I understand that when things don't get done you point to the face of the class and in this case it’s Wild. Please direct frustrations toward me if you have any about the class. Wild gives adequate representation, I speak to her daily if not every few hours about ranger issues. We are well aware of issues that rangers face and we are working on getting things straightened out.

A lot of miscommunication happens when not everyone, including Wild - or any class lead, knows all that happens internally while making the game. We do not have time or desire to explain the inner workings of everything - we would rather be fixing things and moving forward. Imagine explaining all of the facets of your job to everyone and then explaining why something went wrong or why something is lower priority than something else. I don’t think that it would be easy and would take quite a bit of time that could be better spent elsewhere.

The reason rangers aren't seeing many fixes lately (though you have got some coming up) is because we are focusing our attention toward fixing rogue poisons and adjusting classes that didn't get as much love as the ranger did during beta, along with bug fixing. The ranger was iterated on like 3-4 times during beta whereas most other classes were done once, maybe twice. This is not to say that we don't pay attention or fix things for the ranger, its just saying that we aren't spending full time adjusting the ranger right now.

Speaking to Wild's credentials for being a class lead, as I'm sure many of you are interested, she had a level 48 ranger, level 40 ranger (capped at the time) and a level 20 ranger in beta, amongst other lower level ranger alts. Not to mention her current ranger which is level 49.

In conclusion, I speak to not only Wild but Faelor as well. They both have my email and IM, which they both use frequently. I read many forums including Silky Venom and VG Rangers to get perspectives of the class. We have many areas to focus on but there are gates that block us and different priorities constantly. We will fix the bugs that come in and incorporate your feedback as well as the feedback we receive from Wild (they are one in the same). Thanks for being concerned and passionate about your class and providing valuable feedback, I do hear about it and see it.

Thank you for your reply and robust defense of someone who is obviously serving Sigil well, but perhaps not the players as adequately?

There is a similar issue with the shaman lead who feels it is not in their remit to interact with the community nor offer any feedback on the discussions held with Sigil. He does however read the forum, but almost never posts nor maintains any public list of class issues etc. Does Sigil feel that this existence outside the community is healthy for a lead? I can assure you that it alienates a significant proportion of your most devoted players who do get involved with the online communities.

I think that we can all accept that the game still needs a lot of work, and that so many changes can be very disruptive and distressing now the game is out of beta. Surely the best way of ameliorating this is to leverage class leads to act as a two way conduit to everyone's benefit. I'm not talking about daily updates, but some classes get nothing except patch notes!

Do you have a document outlining what the roll of the class leads is? This would at least allow us to measure fairly what it is reasonable to expect from a lead and would prevent a lot of resentment due to the current ambiguity and differences in performance one witnesses (The Sorc lead is very good at community interaction for instance).

Following on from this, is there a process in place for a community to impeach a class lead, as the rangers have tried to do?

I realise these concerns may seem laughable to a dev crunching his nuts off trying to fix the game, and who is happy getting a concise list of bugs from a players they've known for a while, but from a community management perspective, such a narrow view is bordering on disastrous. For those in love with these games, it is a very prestigious and interesting role, helping to shape a game such as this, and yet sometimes it looks like a few just want a personal telephone line to 'god'.

One suggestion might be a fixed term for a lead (say 6 months), followed by nominations and re-elections there after. More work I know, but this stuff is important.

[Thisle1234]

I have a hard time reading this post guys. Wild has been one of the most active class leads since we began the class lead program. I understand that when things don't get done you point to the face of the class and in this case it’s Wild. Please direct frustrations toward me if you have any about the class. Wild gives adequate representation, I speak to her daily if not every few hours about ranger issues. We are well aware of issues that rangers face and we are working on getting things straightened out.

A lot of miscommunication happens when not everyone, including Wild - or any class lead, knows all that happens internally while making the game. We do not have time or desire to explain the inner workings of everything - we would rather be fixing things and moving forward. Imagine explaining all of the facets of your job to everyone and then explaining why something went wrong or why something is lower priority than something else. I don’t think that it would be easy and would take quite a bit of time that could be better spent elsewhere.

The reason rangers aren't seeing many fixes lately (though you have got some coming up) is because we are focusing our attention toward fixing rogue poisons and adjusting classes that didn't get as much love as the ranger did during beta, along with bug fixing. The ranger was iterated on like 3-4 times during beta whereas most other classes were done once, maybe twice. This is not to say that we don't pay attention or fix things for the ranger, its just saying that we aren't spending full time adjusting the ranger right now.

Speaking to Wild's credentials for being a class lead, as I'm sure many of you are interested, she had a level 48 ranger, level 40 ranger (capped at the time) and a level 20 ranger in beta, amongst other lower level ranger alts. Not to mention her current ranger which is level 49.

In conclusion, I speak to not only Wild but Faelor as well. They both have my email and IM, which they both use frequently. I read many forums including Silky Venom and VG Rangers to get perspectives of the class. We have many areas to focus on but there are gates that block us and different priorities constantly. We will fix the bugs that come in and incorporate your feedback as well as the feedback we receive from Wild (they are one in the same). Thanks for being concerned and passionate about your class and providing valuable feedback, I do hear about it and see it.

Ok thats great. You like wild. Fun stuff. What about the issues that matter?
For instance:

*Offensive stance- I for one would like a clear explination of how this works. Ive asked multiple high level (40+) rangers in game and noone seems to know how this works, or if it is indeed broken. Ive done some testing but its really difficult to tell without a parser. But to me...it doesnt seem to give me any dmg boost at all. Some say offensive stance gets more powerful as those little dots increase to the left of the mobs name. If this is true....it basically renders it useless for critical shot and dawn arrow openings. Further more, isnt the bard stances supsosed to work that way? The same also applies with our other stances. I just DO NOT see any difference. The only time i acually SEE a difference is when i switch to evasion stance and my defense will acually go up. Other than that....i dont see any difference.

*Blade of equinox- doing less dmg than blade of summer. Ive tested this numorous times. Blade of summer will hit equal to if not more than BoE.

*Critical shot- How come i auto attack(ranged auto attack) for more dmg than a critical hit with "critical shot?" Makes no sense to me.

*Dawn arrow- Same with critical shot.

Also, Avair i want to thank you for answering my post on the rogue "Fun with Lint" book. I only wish it had been sooner. I revently switched servers from varking to tharridon and instead of rerolling rogue i picked ranger. Never the less thank you for at least looking into the book. Im sure it will make rogues very happy to finnally have some fun with lint :)

Thank you for your replies and keep up the good work :cool:

[Ominous]

I think many people here are under the false assumption that the Class Leads are here to serve the community. As we were told in beta when several people wanted one of leads removed, the Leads are there for Sigil, not the community. Sigil chooses who the leads are and holds them to whatever standards they want. Now this may have changed since release. If so, your complaints have merit. If not, too bad.

[Rourke]

Ugh......this whole thread is just embarrassing.:rolleyes:

[Cassp0nk]

I think many people here are under the false assumption that the Class Leads are here to serve the community. As we were told in beta when several people wanted one of leads removed, the Leads are there for Sigil, not the community. Sigil chooses who the leads are and holds them to whatever standards they want. Now this may have changed since release. If so, your complaints have merit. If not, too bad.

You may be absolutely right, which is why Sigil needs to setout a mandate of what a class lead is expected and allowed to do. Right now, like it or not, some class leads are doing a much better job from the players perspective and this needs to be addressed in some fashion.

To me at least, it is pretty clear that a class lead that doesn't even interact on the forums from which they gather info can't be doing as good a job as one who does. It simply isn't possible to nail things down when you don't talk to other players. After all, isn't that why we have leads? Because the devs don't have the time to play every class in depth and spend hours on message boards?

[Therian]

Weird thread.

Ranger is only my alt - I play it occasionally to blow off steam because it's such a fun class. Disciple is my main. We do not have a class leader. We would kill to have a class leader as excellent as Wild.

Wild...come to the disciple side...

[Jeters]

This thread is wierd and embarrassing. If I was wild I wouldn't want to post here either =p

[Cassp0nk]

This thread is wierd and embarrassing. If I was wild I wouldn't want to post here either =p

I have no idea about wild, other than that a lot of people want her ousted, but I don't think its embarrassing to suggest that a class lead should have a regular forum presence and interact with other players as well as the devs. I'm pretty sure you do as I've seen you defending our yeti* like shaman lead, who is your friend, on the shaman board thread where we expressed our disappointment in him.

In the end it all comes down to what a class lead should be doing. Some don't want to get involved and don't have the time, and that's fine, but that short changes a class's players, especially when there are others who have the time and dedication to really make it work well for both players and devs. Which is why Sigil ought to make a statement and clear things up.

Trying to derail the thread by calling it embarrassing won't make the issue go away.




* ok I confess, there have been more sightings of the Yeti than Glipkero.

[Loampounder]

This is pathetic.

Wild busted her green behind all during beta and served the ranger community extremely well. Now some johnny-come-latelies come and complain they doing get love for two weeks, or more precisely say that they have not SEEN love in two weeks. As Avair said, he discussed details with Wild all the time on a daily basis. Wild has more experience with this class in her little pinkey than some of these forum weekend warriors have in all of release. If they really wanted to help the class, they would stick to discussing things on the forums and keep it constructive.

Every class wants love. Sigil and the class leads are working on the game. What more could you want? A public relations mommy that will hold your hand and lead flames against Sigil for each boo-boo in your class? Then go ahead, impeach Wild, and kick out the best thing that rangers ever had.

I cannot speak about the other leads, as I was mainly a ranger in beta. Frankly, I heard good things about the leads during the year + of beta. It does not make sense for common players who don't know about the lead program or the work going on to build better classes to complain in multiple forums about not getting enough public attention. Let people do their job.

[Loampounder]

In the end it all comes down to what a class lead should be doing. Some don't want to get involved and don't have the time, and that's fine, but that short changes a class's players, especially when there are others who have the time and dedication to really make it work well for both players and devs. Which is why Sigil ought to make a statement and clear things up.

Keep in mind that most of your expectations are build on your understanding of what you want. Much like Plato's cave shadows, many forum posters think things only exist if they get posted much and often. Knowledge and the ability to work closely with Sigil is not measured by how often someone shows his face in a forum. In some cases, it's inversely proportional, simply because they are getting the work done and are in the game experiencing the mechanics rather than camping a forum.

[Iwantthisgame]

Keep in mind that most of your expectations are build on your understanding of what you want. Much like Plato's cave shadows, many forum posters think things only exist if they get posted much and often. Knowledge and the ability to work closely with Sigil is not measured by how often someone shows his face in a forum. In some cases, it's inversely proportional, simply because they are getting the work done and are in the game experiencing the mechanics rather than camping a forum.

I don't care that she didn't post for two weeks or w/e I don't even know if this is true. What I dislike is being told to come here for ranger information when there is a site dedicated to rangers. It makes absolutely no sense to want us to come here and it's equally non-sensible to not converse with rangers where the majority of rangers are.

When I make a thread about ranger issues I want to discuss it with rangers. Other people who actually know what they're talking about. I do not want to fight through pages of other classes telling us we're fine or spamming how much better off we are than their class. One of these things occurs at SV and one of them occurs at VGrangers. I'll let you guess which is which.

[Loampounder]

What I dislike is being told to come here for ranger information when there is a site dedicated to rangers. It makes absolutely no sense to want us to come here and it's equally non-sensible to not converse with rangers where the majority of rangers are.

HUH? Go where ever you please. VGrangers is a good fansite, but it's not an official requirement. The population's mass is the valuable thing so go to where ever you feel comfortable and where there are a lot of rangers.

What does this have to do with anything?

[Iwantthisgame]

HUH? Go where ever you please. VGrangers is a good fansite, but it's not an official requirement. The population's mass is the valuable thing so go to where ever you feel comfortable and where there are a lot of rangers.

What does this have to do with anything?

because that's where the majority of rangers discuss problems in part because of the reasons I stated. It's where our class lead should be discussing ranger issues whether it's required or not.

[Loampounder]

because that's where the majority of rangers discuss problems in part because of the reasons I stated. It's where our class lead should be discussing ranger issues whether it's required or not.

"Should", meaning you defined it. Why? Because it fits into what you want. Don't leverage your requirements on a lead that has been working hard for over a year. The VGranger forum has a lot of quality people doing some good work. A community is more than just a person with a "lead" hat on.

[Faelor]

The VGranger forum has a lot of quality people doing some good work.
I would like to mention Vanguard Rangers is a one man operation :p *flex*

C'mon folks, lighten up on Wild. If you have not noticed, she has been posting more at Vanguard Rangers, and for that I thank her. She isn't forced to post there, but it is greatly appreciated she is puting forth the time and effort to do so :cool:

[Loampounder]

Faelor, that says a lot about you. The work you do is great.

But the community is more than just one person. Over two thousand members. Healthy discussions each day.

[Iwantthisgame]

I would like to mention Vanguard Rangers is a one man operation :p *flex*

C'mon folks, lighten up on Wild. If you have not noticed, she has been posting more at Vanguard Rangers, and for that I thank her. She isn't forced to post there, but it is greatly appreciated she is puting forth the time and effort to do so :cool:

I agree.

"Should", meaning you defined it. Why? Because it fits into what you want. Don't leverage your requirements on a lead that has been working hard for over a year. The VGranger forum has a lot of quality people doing some good work. A community is more than just a person with a "lead" hat on.



because I'm the only person who thinks this right? Did you not read the thread here or on VGrangers or something? It's the general consensus. The community is more than one person but one person has direct a direct line to the people in charge of making the changes we'd like or fixing the problems with our class. If the lead doesn't discuss the class with us then things like dex not affecting ranged attacks won't be reported.


I'm not saying wild hasn't improved the last few days but I am arguing why people were upset in the first place. If you don't inherently understand why the lead of a class posting where they will reach the largest number of that class and discussing things where rangers post them makes the most sense then I don't know what to say. It's 2+2=4. Doesn't get any more specific or simple.

[Loampounder]

because I'm the only person who thinks this right? Did you not read the thread here or on VGrangers or something? It's the general consensus. The community is more than one person but one person has direct a direct line to the people in charge of making the changes we'd like or fixing the problems with our class. If the lead doesn't discuss the class with us then things like dex not affecting ranged attacks won't be reported.

I'm a firm believer in the power of diversity in online communities. People follow different forums and this leads to a lot of crosstalk. Discussions on SV will get to VGRanger and back. Not all rangers go to VGRanger or SV yet they will not be harmed. Points will be heard from a variety of people from all across the community because various people go to various forums.

[Iwantthisgame]

I'm a firm believer in the power of diversity in online communities. People follow different forums and this leads to a lot of crosstalk. Discussions on SV will get to VGRanger and back. Not all rangers go to VGRanger or SV yet they will not be harmed. Points will be heard from a variety of people from all across the community because various people go to various forums.

and I believe a problem that's been long complained about going unnoticed is evidence of the fact that your opinion just might be off-base.

edit:

I also want to point out that diversity in communities is a rather pointless exercise given the topic. Rangers who post on SV and rangers who post on Vgrangers do not have varying experiences or opinions because of where they post. The fact that I post at vgrangers doesn't mean I will feel the need to talk about different problems than if I posted at silky venom and vice versa. Where someone post is a completely irrelevant factor and is akin to saying the condiment of choice for an investment banker is a defining factor in the decisions they will make. It is completely irrelevant.

[Azathul]

and I believe a problem that's been long complained about going unnoticed is evidence of the fact that your opinion just might be off-base.

Okay, just to clarify for the people who missed this little cogent detail. The 'unnoticed problem' you are referencing is Tagad about Dexterity and Ranged, right? But the Dev that wild interacts with regarding the Rangers is Avair. The fact that /Tagad/ did not know has nothing to do with whether or not /Avair/ knew. And since Avair seems to be the one who would be working on and fixing the issue it isn't particularly important if Tagad was aware of it.



I also want to point out that diversity in communities is a rather pointless exercise given the topic. Rangers who post on SV and rangers who post on Vgrangers do not have varying experiences or opinions because of where they post. The fact that I post at vgrangers doesn't mean I will feel the need to talk about different problems than if I posted at silky venom and vice versa. Where someone post is a completely irrelevant factor and is akin to saying the condiment of choice for an investment banker is a defining factor in the decisions they will make. It is completely irrelevant.

This last is pretty much incorrect. The simple truth of the matter is that different people apply different reasoning processes to problems and solutions. So different people will use abilities in different ways, some of which will be highly creative and seem obvious after they are pointed out. These same groups will have different preferences for the kind of environment they like to 'hang out' in. This means that they will post on different types of forums. The positive thing about a multi-forum system is that the information then gets distributed from where it is originally posted out to other associated forums.

If you don't believe this process exists then check some of the avid class sites and see how discussions and discoveries that go on in a devoted forum still get spread out to places like SV and TTH.

[Rourke]

I'm not saying wild hasn't improved the last few days but I am arguing why people were upset in the first place. If you don't inherently understand why the lead of a class posting where they will reach the largest number of that class and discussing things where rangers post them makes the most sense then I don't know what to say. It's 2+2=4. Doesn't get any more specific or simple.

I just wanna say that this kind of thread make the Ranger community look pretty goddamn whiney and it's just wrong. You guys don't get to decide who posts, when and where, and you certianly don't get to decide who takes a Class Lead role or doesn't

IMO...Rangers, are turning into the most whiney class in game. You guys should be embarrassed you ever started such a shit thread. :mc: Flame on....flame on.

[VerianDarkstar]

Following on from this, is there a process in place for a community to impeach a class lead, as the rangers have tried to do?

Not that I know of, but I'll propose one! Get 50% + 1 of all rangers level 10 and above to vote to impeach! According to VG:SOG Players, there are currently 15245 Rangers level 10 or higher. So you just get back with us when you have a petition with 7,623 of those Rangers' signatures!


Meanwhile, while we're voting, I'll put my vote behind Rourke and the other posters who have said that this thread is embarassing. It makes rangers appear like the whiniest group of players in the game.

So sad how so few can make so many appear so pathetic.

[Thisle1234]

Not that I know of, but I'll propose one! Get 50% + 1 of all rangers level 10 and above to vote to impeach! According to VG:SOG Players, there are currently 15245 Rangers level 10 or higher. So you just get back with us when you have a petition with 7,623 of those Rangers' signatures!


Meanwhile, while we're voting, I'll put my vote behind Rourke and the other posters who have said that this thread is embarassing. It makes rangers appear like the whiniest group of players in the game.

So sad how so few can make so many appear so pathetic.

Whats even more sad is how the rest of the community who dont play rangers are trying to jump on the bandwagon because they think the game creator plays the class. Which HE DOES NOT.

So if you arnt a ranger and dont have any constructive input to this thread, please exit the door that way ------>.

I can see why rangers would be upset. Update #1 screwed up alot of their ranged attacks and their class lead has been absent to give any updates on what the current situation is. I think most rangers would just like a couple of key questions answered. I listed them a few pages back but all the "lets h8 on ranger vanboi's" keep de-railing the thread.

Now if we could get some clean answers well be on our way.

[VerianDarkstar]

Whats even more sad is how the rest of the community who dont play rangers are trying to jump on the bandwagon because they think the game creator plays the class. Which HE DOES NOT..
Huh? Uh ... what bandwagon? What are you talking about?


So if you arnt a ranger and dont have any constructive input to this thread, please exit the door that way ------>.


Look, I have a ranger, I play it, I like it. I have some questions, and there are some things I'd like to see fixed. This thread is about none of that. This thread is about bashing on a class lead, raising a stink, and generally carrying on like little babies. That's what is embarassing. Not rangers, nor the people who play them. Just the folks who get so upset about a frikkin game that they grab the torches and look for someone to tie to the stake. :mc:

I think most rangers would just like a couple of key questions answered. I listed them a few pages back but all the "lets h8 on ranger vanboi's" keep de-railing the thread.

Yes, you made a constructive post in an otherwise non-constructive thread. In doing so, YOU derailed this thread. :p This thread is about bringing down the wicked, horrible, no-good class lead! :twisted: If you insist on continuing to make constructive posts about your class, there are numerous other threads which would better serve that purpose. This thread, sadly, is not one of them.

[Rasputina]

Wild made 15 HARD LEVELS while she was "sick". Its an excuse that the community isn't buying.

I dont know much of whats going on as I havent been much to the ranger forum of late, but even I dont buy the sick excuse while playing alot.

Now honesty I am a big fan of. Had Wild come on and said, "You know, I see my duties as collecting your concerns, passing them along, but not getting into the thick of discussions and such" i could believe they felt that way. We may or may not agree thats the way to approach a lead position, but at least it would be a statement that had some basis in reality.

Dishonesty disgusts me, especially when for the lie to work they must take us for complete idiots. An excuse of "too sick to post" while clearly not too sick to play for hours reeks of dishonesty.

Mahres, Ranger19th, Woefeather
(for those who think you need to be a ranger to be concerned about that aspect of the game..)

[Cassp0nk]

Keep in mind that most of your expectations are build on your understanding of what you want. Much like Plato's cave shadows, many forum posters think things only exist if they get posted much and often. Knowledge and the ability to work closely with Sigil is not measured by how often someone shows his face in a forum. In some cases, it's inversely proportional, simply because they are getting the work done and are in the game experiencing the mechanics rather than camping a forum.

Well apart from the diversion about Plato, I completely take on board your point. However the game is live now and I'm one of the many that has expectations of those who would represent my class to the developers. They aren't unreasonable, but if Sigil step forward and say the role of the lead isn't to interact with other members of the class then so be it. I'll start lobbying for Sigil to change the mandate, rather than for them to change the behaviour of the shaman class lead (or replace him)!

In terms of benefit to the developers, I simply don't see a valid argument for a class lead not interacting with the community of players he represents. You learn a lot more discussing a topic than you do skim reading a forum with variable signal to noise. In fact steering threads to focus on useful info is something they are well placed to do, but is rather tricky if you don't post.

With regards to benefiting players, getting some feedback about the state of play via the lead is also invaluable. The Shaman forum descended into a miasma of depression with a sprinkle of gloating after the recent changes, a simple post from the lead saying the devs were aware of the uproar and taking a second look would have kept morale a lot higher. A community needs nurturing and these things matter. Especially when you've launched early and are relying heavily on good will.

I honestly think Sigil get community and communication. That's why they spend time interacting, and it's a very brave and forward thinking thing to do. Especially combined with the honesty and directness that stands in such contrast with the high handedness and aloofness we saw in EQ1. I really never expected Brad to make such an about turn on the subject of community - lets face it, EQ1 was a lesson in what not to do!

Regardless, on this one issue we need some clarity, and potentially they need to have a bit of a think.

[valfaroth]

This thread shows why I left VgRangers. Got tired of threads like this. Good to see there are people here who are more level-headed and understanding.

I am a Ranger and I too think the ranger "community" should be embarassed.

[Iwantthisgame]

Okay, just to clarify for the people who missed this little cogent detail. The 'unnoticed problem' you are referencing is Tagad about Dexterity and Ranged, right? But the Dev that wild interacts with regarding the Rangers is Avair. The fact that /Tagad/ did not know has nothing to do with whether or not /Avair/ knew. And since Avair seems to be the one who would be working on and fixing the issue it isn't particularly important if Tagad was aware of it.

I believe it would have been passed along had it been reported.




This last is pretty much incorrect. The simple truth of the matter is that different people apply different reasoning processes to problems and solutions. So different people will use abilities in different ways, some of which will be highly creative and seem obvious after they are pointed out. These same groups will have different preferences for the kind of environment they like to 'hang out' in. This means that they will post on different types of forums. The positive thing about a multi-forum system is that the information then gets distributed from where it is originally posted out to other associated forums.

If you don't believe this process exists then check some of the avid class sites and see how discussions and discoveries that go on in a devoted forum still get spread out to places like SV and TTH.
My point is that where someone posts is not determining factor in how they view things or what problems they have. You are spouting off bumper sticker philosophy without actually understanding why it is incorrect when it does apply so you're applying to situations where it makes no sense and has no relevance. I'm not surprised this is the internet afterall.

I just wanna say that this kind of thread make the Ranger community look pretty goddamn whiney and it's just wrong. You guys don't get to decide who posts, when and where, and you certianly don't get to decide who takes a Class Lead role or doesn't

IMO...Rangers, are turning into the most whiney class in game. You guys should be embarrassed you ever started such a shit thread. :mc: Flame on....flame on.



I don't really care about your opinion so thanks for wasting your time giving it to me.

[Azathul]

I believe it would have been passed along had it been reported.

Maybe it was and Tagad didn't see it? Maybe it wasn't because passing along every last minute detail of what is wrong broken with a class and what is working with a class would be both immensely time consuming and generate a massive volume of data to try to parse and remember. In any event it does not really matter if it was or wasn't passed to Tagad as long as it went to the guy who would be working on the issue, Avair. Which by all reports it did.



My point is that where someone posts is not determining factor in how they view things or what problems they have. You are spouting off bumper sticker philosophy without actually understanding why it is incorrect when it does apply so you're applying to situations where it makes no sense and has no relevance. I'm not surprised this is the internet afterall.


Ignoring the petty attempt to be derogatory, since it ist the internet after all, I will point out that you are now arguing against your own case. If, in truth, where someone posts is not the determining factor in how they view things or what problems they have then there is, in all actuality, no difference between Wild doing her posting business here versus VGRangers. The 'general information' will arrive on both.

However, it is not entirely the case that this will happen. In every community there are varying degrees of skill, knowledge, and creativity. And in every 'community' different people have different styles and tolerance levels for the types of issues they will encounter. Where those people communicate is where the majority of the data will appear /first/. But I will note only /first/ as people who frequent other sites as well will carry that information with them and convey it there.

The internet, in fact, is a giant example of this. Try google searching on a subject; say an uncommonly known but historically significant figure. You will find that many of the little bios that come up have essentially the same information. And a number of them are almost word for word identical though they come from vastly different sites. This is because people carry information with them, much like the dirt on their shoes, and deposit it in the places that they frequent. It /transits/ the distances such that it is distributed out amongst a variety of sources and anyone who searches can get relatively the same information. Volume can change this, but even in large volume subjects the same basic information tends to be conveyed just attached to a great deal of further detail.

[Iwantthisgame]

Maybe it was and Tagad didn't see it? Maybe it wasn't because passing along every last minute detail of what is wrong broken with a class and what is working with a class would be both immensely time consuming and generate a massive volume of data to try to parse and remember. In any event it does not really matter if it was or wasn't passed to Tagad as long as it went to the guy who would be working on the issue, Avair. Which by all reports it did.

Tagad also has a soft spot for rangers. he is a resource for the ranger community.




Ignoring the petty attempt to be derogatory, since it ist the internet after all, I will point out that you are now arguing against your own case. If, in truth, where someone posts is not the determining factor in how they view things or what problems they have then there is, in all actuality, no difference between Wild doing her posting business here versus VGRangers. The 'general information' will arrive on both.

The difference is the number of them there and the chances of the community seeing it. It's a site for rangers. It makes sense to use it as your base for conversing with rangers. Not rocket science.

However, it is not entirely the case that this will happen. In every community there are varying degrees of skill, knowledge, and creativity. And in every 'community' different people have different styles and tolerance levels for the types of issues they will encounter. Where those people communicate is where the majority of the data will appear /first/. But I will note only /first/ as people who frequent other sites as well will carry that information with them and convey it there.

The 'community' is the ranger community. Where a ranger posts has nothing to do with his experience as a ranger in game. Why is this not axiomatic?

The internet, in fact, is a giant example of this. Try google searching on a subject; say an uncommonly known but historically significant figure. You will find that many of the little bios that come up have essentially the same information. And a number of them are almost word for word identical though they come from vastly different sites. This is because people carry information with them, much like the dirt on their shoes, and deposit it in the places that they frequent. It /transits/ the distances such that it is distributed out amongst a variety of sources and anyone who searches can get relatively the same information. Volume can change this, but even in large volume subjects the same basic information tends to be conveyed just attached to a great deal of further detail.Don't know what any of this has to do with anything. Assuming your correct it still makes sense for the entry point to be on the site dedicated to rangers.

[Nólaquen]

Guys, I'm gonna lock this. Everyone's had their say and we're kind of just going in circles at this point. I'd rather lock it now than allow the possibility that it might become Volcano material later. If you feel that the original subject continues to be an issue, you may consider starting a new thread on the matter in some time.