View Full Version : Giving Diplomats a BUFF (Faction)

03-12-2007, 10:58 AM
Diplomacy was (and remains) one of the most unique things this game offered--a whole separate SPHERE of play based on parlaying your way through problems, rather than beating everything with a rare stick? Gaining influence over whole cities? Fantastic!

Currently, it's more like a sideshow attraction, it's only true function being city-wide buffs. As much as I like when diplomats give us those buffs, it's just doesn't seem as engaging as a SPHERE should be. So, ONE idea to make this better--when we have more higher-level diplomats:


KOS should be hard, nearly impossible to get rid of. If a race hates you that bad, simply killing a few of their enemies shouldn't get you greeted with open arms, or even tolerated. Getting that status with a KOS race should take a LONG time and a LOT of work for an adventurer or crafter.


Your diplomat friend has some favor with them. In his travels, he has parlayed with some of their merchants and guards and leaders. They know and respect (or at least put up with) him.

So, he can enter parlay with a few "city official" NPC's for the chance of winning a "Mark of Favor." This is a consumable item that gives a player a 'faction buff' for an hour or so--meaning they can enter the city and conduct their business for that amount of time, thanks to the influence of their friend. During this time, they can try to put a dent in their negative faction, i hopes of one day being accepted themselves. But in the meantime, they'll need a few more of these buffs from their Diplomats.

Diplomats could be allowed to gain their faction to these places by parlaying in the various "Foreign Quarter" areas with envoys from the opposing races. This becomes the window for all.


1) These buffs would have to be TRADE ONLY. No mail, no broker. After all, if you're peddling influence in this manner, you likely don't want it known so publicly! We also don't want to have a billion of them on the broker so that they become meaningless.

2) Those players that have already ground this kind of faction would have to take a step back (Myself included). But it's a small sacrifice to REALLY open up a whole other SPHERE of play.

This system would give faction consequence, and make the gaining of good faction an ACCOMPLISHMENT, with real meaning. Your friend gets you in the door, and then you do quests and work orders for the people of that city to show them what a great guy you are... until eventually, you can finally stand on your OWN reputation!

03-12-2007, 11:46 AM
I agree, this would have been a great idea from the get-go. It would be hard to shove it down the throats of people who feel they have "grinded their faction already!" (honestly how long does it take to kill 201 level 3 mobs?)

Other things would have to change to... like a more fair even distribution of KOS/race choice, ya know, making orcs not hated everywhere, and making humans a little more disliked throughout the world to even things out.

03-12-2007, 02:52 PM
Faction was changed due to crafters and recipie styles, they felt they should have all 3 with no hassle of faction grinding.

03-12-2007, 09:56 PM
I played a troll in everquest and one of the biggest enjoyments I had was walking into towns I started out KOS in and having people (atleast in the early years) walk up to me and send tells in awe asking how I got in there.

Grinding up faction in everquest took a long time, I don't recall how much, but I know I was at that orc camp in the commonlands for days killing for hours on end.

I chose a goblin thinking the same effort would be needed to gain faction in this game. I originally became non KOS to Ca'ial Brael first before it was lowered to needing only 200 kills, took a couple hours worth of killing. This was hardly to much killing and honostly felt it should be made harder, but whatever.

There are enough people out there that are against the whole grind for faction that I do not foresee faction being changed to more difficult. Should it have been originally? Hell yes is my opinion, but I truely found that be an extremly fun aspect in everquest, not so much the grind itself but the reward at the end. It was an effort, it had a "cool" factor attached to it, and you did not see every other troll running into KOS towns.

Faction in vanguard is meaningless, you can become non KOS everywhere in no time at all. You do see many normally KOS races running around in opposing towns as a common sight. If you are KOS to a town people even shrug it off to others in /ooc as such a non effort to become ok to a town that it's pointless.

/ooc Where is the nearest mailbox to BC thats safe for goblin?
/oocresponse Just kill 200 of the weenie level 5 faction mobs in the cave near town.

Thats not one of my actual coversations, but I have observed similar. Its such a non issue it is pointless.

I am currently non KOS to every major city I've found (except maybe gnomes I havn't been to that city yet) I would gladly go back to being KOS everywhere if they revamped the faction system. How many of us like me are out there? Not very many.

I also picked a Psion thinking illusions would have an effect on faction, allowing for doing some quests in towns I would normally be KOS in. Illusions do nothing, I'm not upset that I picked a Psion, infact I totally love my class, but the original thought process for me behind choosing one was faction driven. If the illusions make me non KOS to a town in the future they still will do nothing for most psion's because the lowly 200 faction you need is so easy it's worth doing just so you don't have to remember to refresh an illusion timer.

03-12-2007, 10:07 PM
Faction means a lot more than simply a matter of KOS or not.

03-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Well it allows you to take quests from a town because your not KOS.

Other than that what is a lot more? A lot more translates to me as personal pride, the cool factor associated with standing there non kos.

Are you refering to crafting quests/recipies or what?

03-12-2007, 10:16 PM
Not really at this point, unless your talking about crafting faction.

They have plans for perks for certain levels of full standing, as illustrated by Celestine Ward faction. Which means simply being "not kill on sight" won't be enough.

03-12-2007, 10:41 PM
They have plans for perks for certain levels of full standing, as illustrated by Celestine Ward faction. Which means simply being "not kill on sight" won't be enough.

Different levels of faction would be a good approach. If it becomes confined to just a few quests or areas though thats one thing, when it starts to having a global occurance it would be very cool.

03-15-2007, 02:28 AM

Of course I didn't present a fully-formed idea. Post would have been waaay too long, no one would have read it, and it wouldn't have been open-ended (thus inspiring discussion!).

The suggestion is just a way to START involving diplomacy as more than a "Hey, can you get us our Blacksmith buff? KKTHX." I would love more than ANYTHING to see Crafting and Diplomacy as true SPHERES of gameplay, not merely marginally distracting mini-games through which we can help others get their uber loot.

That was, after all, what they sold us for these years. THREE SPHERES. Not one and two tenths. By all means, expand the original suggestion in this post!! Make suggestions--make DEMANDS, even. No, they don't have to listen, but DO IT ANYWAY! :)

Whiny, gimmegimme adventurers may be complete idiots when it comes to what makes a game FUN and what makes it LAST, but they have one basic principle down--NEVER underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. They know how to band together and whine as a unit.

Three can play at that game! :)

03-17-2007, 12:54 AM
Still interested in this, and other ideas to make Diplomacy more influential in the game.

I truly believe in a system in which the spheres EACH have compelling gameplay for dedicated participants, rather than two being merely mini-games attached to the other.

How about Diplomacy as a means for the government of player cities?

03-20-2007, 01:58 PM
Diplomacy WILL be a major part of running Player cities, but I dont think they will bout out until the expansion.

03-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Well, we were once told Diplomats would... but who knows the plan now?

Of course, for sake of the Diplomats, I would also like to see them have a big part in the CORE content of the game. Houses/Cities are side content, with no real influence on the game.

The idea of three spheres, to me, was that they would be interdependent (which contains the word DEPENDENT)... such that each sphere held an INTEGRAL role in the day-to-day goings on--not just some side "add-on" content that one could participate in if they felt like taking a break from adventuring.

Diplomats and Crafters DEPEND on adventuring outright. Without Adventurers, Crafters would have no one to sell to (or harvest in hostile areas)--but Adventurers could do just fine without buying anything made by players at all. They don't DEPEND on crafters (unless they 'choose' to, which is not 'dependency'). Without Adventurers, Diplomats would have no one to assist with the city buffs, and might also have trouble travelling through hostile areas. But Adventurers don't DEPEND on any of that.

Right now, Adventuring is the be-all-end-all raison d'etre of the other "spheres." In short, they are not very "spherical."