Bards? BARDS?!

[Skarlath]

I accidentally began typing a *ahem* 'discussion' in the 'wtf happened (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10605#post10605)' thread, but it was a bit off topic and so I moved it here. Without further ado:

Bards?!

Coming at fantasy from Movies, books and Asheron's Call 1, I just cant understand bards. "Oooh, lets stop fighting and whistle out a little ditty to make us all feel better." I mean, armies used sing-songs the night before a battle to keep spirits up, they used chants and beats before a battle to lure soldiers into a trance-like battle state. They used horns and such to coordinate instructions, and they used further pulsing beats for advances and stuff ... but bards?! Where do they fit in? How does a song work within a battle? Beats are thought to tap into primal urges within humans that are meant to stem from a mother's heart beat whilst in the womb, what exactly does a tune do?

"Far over the misty mountains" helped a brave party of adventurers push on with their march late into the night in the hobbit. Would it have its place during combat?

I feel that during a battle, an extra blade would be more useful than backing vocals. So whats up with bards as a class?

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

Its quite simle really, we are the tempo to which the group moves.

Through use of song we weave together the beat of the group, making their moves more efficent and effective. Just as the song in massive wars did long ago.

We are also responsible for the morale of the group. Through the use of song and magic we keep spirits up!

Musicians have always had the place on the battlefield, couple that with the mysticism and magic of a fantasy world, and you have a class that has the sole purpose of making a group more effective at what it already does.

You may not add a sword(or maybe you do) but you create the potential and ability for your group to act far above their normal skills.

It is simple to look at a bard and say yeah so what? He has no finite role. But our role is to take on the role of everyone, and make them better at what they do.

Bards deffinately have a place, just because it is not as finite, or directly effective as a wizard, cleric, or warrior. Everyone benefits from a bard they are the ultimate support class. For they are the embodiment of all classes :)

[Skarlath]

I guess it is one of those times you must be a little more romantic with the real world, rather than practical.

Ok, I guess I will allow Bards. Just as long as you dont try to sneak in some other wierd classes ...

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

I guess it is one of those times you must be a little more romantic with the real world, rather than practical.

Ok, I guess I will allow Bards. Just as long as you dont try to sneak in some other wierd classes ...

Yeah bards are anything but practical :p I'll agree with you there :D

[Raya]

Skarlath, IRL try listening to bagpipes skirling their battle songs and see the fire in the eyes of the fighting men. This will help you understand the importance of music in battle. :)

Piping the captain aboard a ship and the various tunes that sailors responded to was another fact of life.

Even in literature, Ravenlark, a bard in the Death Gate Cycle (written by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman), sang a song that defeated the elves, who were fighting the humans, mages and Gegs, and snatched the sure elvish victory away.

Mercedes Lackey wrote about the bards of Valdemar and how their magical songs contributed to the well-being and protection of the humans and Companions of this fantasy world.

In the Spellsinger series, written by Alan Dean Foster, JonTom found, much to his astonishment, that he sometimes had magical powers when he sang the popular songs of his world and times. Problem was that he couldn't always control the results. But it was definitely magic...and quite often saved him and his fellow adventurers from danger, nearly as often as it put them in danger!

Bards have long been the means of passing down history in both real life and in fantasy novels. It is not that much of a stretch to envision magic adding to the contributions that bards make, enhancing the qualities and powers of the people (groups) they sing to.

For more detailed information on bards, however, I do recommend reading Nepenthia's columns in Who Asked the Bard?! when it begins. :D

[Therian]

The major thing to consider here is that magic wasn't employed by historical bards, while presumably Vanguard bards will be using music for magic (whatever rationale you'd like to place on it, the effect is the same as magic). The logic is different because the rules are different.

[Dillgaar]

I found a nice historical accounting of the role bards played in just ONE of many cultures that had some type of bard who would perform specific duties before, during and after battle.

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/social/sh11.html

the text is as follows...


Among the causes which contributed to sustain the warlike character of the Highlanders, the exertions of the bards in stimulating them to deeds of valour on the field of battle, must not be overlooked. One of the most important duties of the bard consisted in attending the clans to the field, and exhorting them before battle to emulate the glories of their ancestors, and to die if necessary in defence of their country. The appeals of the bards, which were delivered and enforced with great vehemence and earnestness, never failed to arouse the feelings; and when amid the din of battle, the voices of the bards could no longer be heard, the pipers succeeded them, and cheered on their respective parties with their warlike and inspiring strains. After the termination of the battle, the bard celebrated the praises of the brave warriors who had fallen in battle, and related the heroic actions of the survivors to excite them to similar exertions on future occasions. To impress still more deeply upon the minds of the survivors the honour and heroism of their fallen friends, the piper was employed to perform plaintive dirges for the slain.

From the associations raised in the mind by the great respect thus paid to the dead, and the honours which awaited the survivors who distinguished themselves in the field of battle, by their actions being celebrated by the bards, and transmitted to posterity, originated that magnanimous contempt of death for which the Highlanders are noted. While among some people the idea of death is avoided with studious alarm, the Highlander will speak of it with an easy and unconcerned familiarity, as an event of ordinary occurrence, but in a way "equally remote from the dastardly affectation, or fool-hardy presumption, and proportioned solely to the inevitable certainty of the event itself."

[Skarlath]

Understanding the roles of musicians in various forms is far easier in terms of an entire battle. Hundreds if not thousands of men preparing for battle, fighting or recovering afterwards. But we are talking about a tiny scale here. How do you solo with music? If a bard and a warrior go hunting, I think the warrior might get annoyed that the bard doesn't lend more of a hand, because the epic quality of the sound on a battlefield is far removed from the sound of your only team mate leaning against a tree strumming his lyre.

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

this where the realms of "magic" and "fantasy" come in :p

Now don't make me mezz you with my lullabies!

[Dillgaar]

Understanding the roles of musicians in various forms is far easier in terms of an entire battle. Hundreds if not thousands of men preparing for battle, fighting or recovering afterwards. But we are talking about a tiny scale here. How do you solo with music? If a bard and a warrior go hunting, I think the warrior might get annoyed that the bard doesn't lend more of a hand, because the epic quality of the sound on a battlefield is far removed from the sound of your only team mate leaning against a tree strumming his lyre.

And that is where the line of reality vs fantasy is drawn...

Think of someone in a bar brawl... say there is a warrior and a bard... they spill someone's drink and that person wants their heads... so the bard starts singing a rousing chorus about the man's mother and questionable fatherly parentage... this would enrage the man thus making him more likely to not think before doing thus putting the man at a disadvantage to the bard and his companion...

Similarly, the bard singing about great battles and the glories that await he and his companions upon conclusion of the battle would urge them on giving them renewed courage and strength to take on their enemies.

Look at right now... in current wars or even just sporting competitions... what happens right before the games? Loud, fast music to get not only the crowd but the players jazzed up about what is about to happen. Music has a strong influence and although bards have been replaced by cd players and MP3s the effect is the same. Music encourages, motivates and excites people. To that end the bard had a SIGNIFICANT role in the battle, bringing the troops back together after a long fight and with exhaustion setting in... the tides could be turned all with a song.

EDIT: and typically the bard is right there in the fray with everyone else, for the most part they don't just hang back and sing to the people fighting they are in the midst of the battle giving and taking blows as they come.

[Loampounder]

Also remember that fantasy "battles" are not meant to reflect the real life counterparts. IRL there were thousands of lvl 1 peasants and lvl 5 warriors standing in a field swinging tools. In games, it's a party of six or so combining a variety of talents, designed specifically to be more than six swords wiggling against six swords.

Factor in "magic". If the magic is beneficial during combat, it will be used. I think you are just assuming the "weapon" means a sword. If ten swords with one song work better than eleven swords, why not?

As for soloing, the balance in effectiveness is used. I had a bard friend that would balance which songs, how many, and which weapon to have out based on which combat. It's like a warrior deciding between sword, spear, or mace. When we duoed (I as a druid) I made him tank. Usually he swung a sword (focusing on staying alive than drawing blood) while he whistled and I call down the magic. In a warrior/bard duo, I could easily see how bards would live up to their rogue role.