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Calenor
03-16-2007, 09:57 PM
Yes this is a very basic question but I haven't really seen a full answer anywhere. Don't get me wrong for anything I say, I love diplomacy and that is the reason I'm posting this. I want to find a purpose in parleying except learning bits n peaces about the lore.

Let me take this from the start. Vanguard has 3 spheres and it is obvious I think that the main sphere is adventuring. We know in general what adventuring offers with leveling: items and access to more content in Telon (dungeons, high lvl mob areas etc) and much fun and cooperation.

We also know what crafting (and harvesting offer): items (adventuring mostly), money and an influence on Telon's economy and a great challenge to do it.

So what about diplomacy?

It offers items? Yes.. but diplomacy items with very few exception I believe, meaning that the sphere is isolated and not connected with the others and specially with adventuring. I heard that crafters can now break diplomacy items or something? That's cool, a good step forward but how can you "change the world of Telon" if all you can do is a couple useless city buffs. The idea of the city buffs however is great and they can potentially play a big role for raiding maybe in the future. But is that all?

What is the difference between a 300 skill diplomat and a 250 except in the chances to win a parley with an npc? How can the 300 help more profoundly his/her guild?

I have searched some FAQs and a couple of forums but there is no full answer about the purpose of diplomacy except of some general romantic fantasy answers. Sorry if I miss something, I would like some enlightenment on this because I love the diplomacy factor and its potential to influence a whole server.

It would be nice for example for diplomats to have better vendor prices when they win a parley (not that vendors play any significant role in VG so far anyway :P). Or maybe have the power to gain buffs just for themselves or their guild or group. We can find many suggestions but is there anything official out there about the future of diplo?

After all I think diplomacy leveling is much harder than adventuring leveling and I really want to have a motive before I grind for many hours (btw I'm just 77skill diplomat now).

Id be glad if someone knows something and wants to share it.

Thanks
Calenor

nethervoid
03-17-2007, 09:41 PM
Well originally diplo was supposed to be interelated to adventuring and crafting, but then some people whined about not wanting to be 'forced' to play a different sphere in order to play in their primary sphere.

The devs caved, I guess.

I've also heard it will come back some other time and serve a purpose, but if it does cross into other spheres, then won't the above crowd get pissed again? I think it would be best if they all crossed over each other, but some people don't want to play the whole game, they just want to play one little piece of it. Bah.

Greymourn
03-17-2007, 11:06 PM
Well originally diplo was supposed to be interelated to adventuring and crafting, but then some people whined about not wanting to be 'forced' to play a different sphere in order to play in their primary sphere.

I've not played the game long, but I have a lv 12 High Eld Blood Mage (Lv 55 Diplomacy). I've done many of the quests for Diplomacy, and just today started my career as a courier.

Now, I have to say, it's not very easy. Timed quests that require you to run great distances and win parleys at the same time. The rewards, thus far, have been negligible. A few somethings that sell for 8c, a shirt or pair of diplomacy pants here and there ... Nothing spectacular for the time invested.

But, to the point, and as to why I quoted you ... :D

I would probably not be able to run this long courier misions if I wasn't a lv 12 Blood Mage with Invis. Sometimes, I've had to run around lv 16+ red mobs to get to a quest destination. Granted, I did get a horse to help me, but if I wasn't able to invis myself, surely, I would've died many times and failed the quests.

Even the quest dialouge for the quests suggest you level your adventuring classes first. :rolleyes:

Why should it be a one way street? :confused:


Also, on a side note (Sorry to get off-topic) ... Is there any other benefits to doing courier quests (Uses mainly Outsider/Domestic presence) besides the reward and the skill-ups from winning the parleys on the quest? Do you get any added presence for completeing them? So far, the risk/time invested surely hasn't equaled the reward for the quests. Though, I love getting all the bits and pieces of lore, even though, at this point, the plots have wained off and aren't really correlating anymore. :confused:

I love Diplomacy, more so than Adventuring, but I just don't see it as being very beneficial to adventuring, yet. I think they could do far greater things with Diplomacy.

Caldis
03-18-2007, 04:48 AM
At this point I'd have to say Diplomacy is barely in the game. They've started to add more and more lower level quests but by about skill 100 you're capable of completeing 90% of the quests in the game. There are a few more at skill 300 and maybe a few sprinkled in between but it's pretty sparse.

There will be more. They are adding trade routes, so you parley on one continent pick up some goods take it to another continent find out who wants it, parley and make a sale. Supposed to be a big cash maker.

They will also be adding Writs between governments with it's own set of rewards.

So hopefully in the future it will serve it's purpose, right now it's a meaningless time sink. (Though i've made some money selling clothes on the market)

Calenor
03-18-2007, 04:42 PM
I made the same post in VGTact and got some very interesting answers. My interest in diplo is increased again :cool:

http://www.vgtact.com/showthread.php?t=2940

Parallax
03-18-2007, 05:35 PM
Just on the interdependant spheres... It is necessary for both Diplomats and crafters to gain at least a low(15?) lvl adventuring status, so it makes sense to me that both crafters and adventurers would need to gain at least some skill in diplomacy to gain access to everything available.

I understand some people dont like diplomacy or crafting or adventuring that much, but intersphere dependant quests would be very fun and very interesting for all of the people that enjoy each sphere and making a few people gain a few lvls adventuring isnt going to kill them imo.

Calenor
03-19-2007, 01:41 AM
3 Spheres + Interdependence = Revolution in MMORPGs

3 Spheres - Interdependence = Good try but..

Gabbelgak
03-19-2007, 03:47 AM
My current goal with diplomacy I suppose is wealth. I've made over 40 gold from diplomacy alone and continue to pull in decent money (362 Skill as of writing this).

Why did I start diplomacy? The promises of the future. That is also the reason I stick with diplomacy.The vision of what diplomacy can be is so great to me that I keep at it despite no tangible rewards currently available. The best rewards currently out there are low 320's presence shirts from the New Targonor house quests, these shirts to put bluntly do nothing right now, sure it's nice to have them, it is even my overall goal at the moment because that is THE endgame for diplomacy right now (got nobles, should get soldier on my days off :cool: ) What do they do for me though? Nothing, right now.


Being able to open raid content (this is THE main reason)
Coin :pirate:
To be able to do an of the "cool" things diplomacy eventually has as soon as they are available.
To go against the majority. How many people with the title diplomat have you seen on your server? Heck even envoy? I like to be different from the normal.
I enjoy diplomacy. Grinding presence isn't the most fun thing in the world, but neither is adventure experience grinding to me, I see it as a needed evil. quests are what are fun, figuring out the strategy to beat that NPC that blocks the colors you normally use, that is what's fun.


That is why I continue to do what I do. Mainly it's for how I foresee diplomacy becoming, not how it is. That will turn off some to the sphere.

Brownshoe
03-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Also, on a side note (Sorry to get off-topic) ... Is there any other benefits to doing courier quests (Uses mainly Outsider/Domestic presence) besides the reward and the skill-ups from winning the parleys on the quest?

OK, I feel uninformed...besides the quest to get my mount, what other courier quests are there?

Calenor
03-19-2007, 02:19 PM
My current goal with diplomacy I suppose is wealth. I've made over 40 gold from diplomacy alone and continue to pull in decent money (362 Skill as of writing this).

Why did I start diplomacy? The promises of the future. That is also the reason I stick with diplomacy.The vision of what diplomacy can be is so great to me that I keep at it despite no tangible rewards currently available. The best rewards currently out there are low 320's presence shirts from the New Targonor house quests, these shirts to put bluntly do nothing right now, sure it's nice to have them, it is even my overall goal at the moment because that is THE endgame for diplomacy right now (got nobles, should get soldier on my days off :cool: ) What do they do for me though? Nothing, right now.


Being able to open raid content (this is THE main reason)
Coin :pirate:
To be able to do an of the "cool" things diplomacy eventually has as soon as they are available.
To go against the majority. How many people with the title diplomat have you seen on your server? Heck even envoy? I like to be different from the normal.
I enjoy diplomacy. Grinding presence isn't the most fun thing in the world, but neither is adventure experience grinding to me, I see it as a needed evil. quests are what are fun, figuring out the strategy to beat that NPC that blocks the colors you normally use, that is what's fun.


That is why I continue to do what I do. Mainly it's for how I foresee diplomacy becoming, not how it is. That will turn off some to the sphere.


How do you make money out of diplo? Selling items you get from informants at the broker? I have 80 skill right now and I don't really get anything valuable. Id appreciate some info :-)

Absalon
03-20-2007, 03:54 PM
How do you make money out of diplo? Selling items you get from informants at the broker? I have 80 skill right now and I don't really get anything valuable. Id appreciate some info :-)

Yup. I just broke 10 gold last night and I have a 10 items sitting on each of the 3 brokers (hopefully less than 10 by now :P) that will net me a fair amount of money.

Until regional trading is put in, this will be the best way to earn money. Of course, you'll need to do a lot of turn ins and not buy gear yourself, but that's kind of the point of the system.

Xiahou
03-21-2007, 06:02 AM
So...stuff that is confirmed to be on the horizon (Indeed, Diplomacy is a little lack-luster when all we have available is Civics and some quests). I compiled this for some Guild-members, so I'll repost here:

The Highlights, for those who don’t want to read up on it:

—High-end Dungeons may include Diplomacy-levers like civics in cities, so parleying with NPCs in the dungeon may be advisable (In fact, the devs use the term “You may find Dungeon XXX rather impossible without a Diplomat”). Effects can include activating a buff, talking your way past encounters, or spawning NPC-forces to help out the Group/Raid. This is already being built in.

—The “Writs”-system will be coming in the next patch or so. It is intended for the skill 150+ Diplomats, and revolves around intra-continental Diplomacy Missions. “Prestige-Faction” will be the main thing to go for to be able to do Writs, since some will require a certain Prestige to be activated, and some may cost you prestige to do. Writs will be where Diplomacy starts paying off. New Targonor is confirmed as the likely first place for Writs.

—Finishing Writs will give you gems that you can have set in a special customisable mask, which can have stats and effects on any sphere, depending on what you choose to do.

—Diplomats will play a major parts in the formation and maintenance of Player-cities. They don’t release much information on cities yet, but they confirm that dedicated Diplomats will be a requirement for a city to flourish. Also, Diplomats working in cities may gain benefits and titles. The devs say, and I quote: “We always intended for Diplomacy to really come into its own when Player Cities are introduced”

—Higher-end diplomats may be able to get an entourage. Maybe permanently, or maybe just for travelling. What these will do is not clear. The Devs said “They probably won’t work exactly how you would think”. But you can pick your entourage-members depending on how you want to be percieved. (Bring a Thug to look tough, or bring a minstrel for flattery, etc).

—The “Free” Diplomacy-horse (+35% speed) is still debated. But there will be more specific Diplomacy-mounts upcoming. Not much info released.

—Crafters WILL be able to start making Diplomacy-gear, and de-constructing Diplomacy-gear will also give you benefits that are Diplomacy-relevant.

—There is an extensive Title-system in place for the very highest Diplomats, so people can attain semi-nobility through Diplomacy. The Titles will be Continent-specific. “Viscount” is confirmed for Thestra. “Bey” is confirmed for Qalia.

—There will continuously be added Diplomacy-quests to the game, to enhance the repetoire of diplomats.

—The Devs hinted at the concept of “Political Parties”. Very little info is given out, but it is likened to “Diplomacy PvP”. All political parties are opposed to eachother, and the actions you do will benefit YOUR party, and harm the others.

—The highest Diplomats can use the “Consul”-system. This will allow players to craft quests and missions for others. Definitely Diplomacy-quests, and possibly Adventuring and Crafting. Not much more info on this yet.

—“Prestige faction” is confirmed to be a factor in unlocking content. No further info on just what this content may be, but it’s activated at a certain Prestige-level.

—“Prestige” will also function as currency at times, for quest items and for clothes

—Tier 4 Diplomacy-gear is on its way in.

—Generally, the devs say that the managers of each of the three spheres are starting to have all their intended base-content in the game, and are starting to look more into how Adventuring, Diplomacy and Crafting will start influencing eachother. Diplomacy in Dungeons is an early example of this.

—More and more NPCs will start having Parley-options added to them, to change or influence the way their quests work, to interact with the Adventuring-sphere more.

--And then there's Regional Trade, the known concepts of which are described in the Wiki. (Basically, use Parleying to spawn traders, trade with them, travel to other places, spawn a buyer, sell it. Fun stuff happens underway, especially if you are moving illegal wares).

...I think it all sounds really cool. Timelines would be great, but meh... (I personally worked hard to hit 150 so I was ready for Writs...only to find that the Writs-system was NOT patched in this time around)

Niteflyx
03-21-2007, 09:09 AM
That looks really interesting Xiahou :)

Absalon
03-21-2007, 11:13 AM
A few things to add to the list. The devs are still working on adding multiple decks to civic NPCs. Once this is done, they will be able to turn on all the missing conversation types (ie. Gossips in reason-based cities like LN).

At some time in the future there will be diplomacy classes. I think Aruspex said that these will likely be an expansion feature "so they can be done right".

They also have plans for missions, which according to Aruspex's beta chatlog (you can find the link on the vanguardspheres homepage) are "epic quests on behalf of a major government to another government". And embassies, "which is diplomacy with other races like gnolls, beholders, giants, ksaravi, etc."

Hopefully in the more near future we will see the UI enhancements like card sorting and resizing, deck saving, etc.

And then there is the whole "game of houses" type stuff in New Targonor and Ahgram. Some of this is in already in NT.

Siufu
03-23-2007, 11:36 AM
After the Writ is in, they will be working on "Armor quest" for beginner level. Maybe some people do not like low level content, but I like it. You could create some other races alt and do their racial diplomacy quests, they are fun and very interesting story. I have a great time for doing them. Maybe that didn't give me any achievements on my main character, but I have fun.

Gabbelgak
03-23-2007, 12:30 PM
After the Writ is in, they will be working on "Armor quest" for beginner level. Maybe some people do not like low level content, but I like it. You could create some other races alt and do their racial diplomacy quests, they are fun and very interesting story. I have a great time for doing them. Maybe that didn't give me any achievements on my main character, but I have fun.

New low level content gives me time to actually level my adventure sphere without feeling guilty ;)