Stitch 1, break 6?

[ZakzimusMaximus]

Since release every patch has been a fix 1 problem break some random code in 6 other places. And then every patch thereafter has been fix the stuff we broke the last time and pass out a bunch of nerfs/class balances.

WTH is the test server even there for if you cant even catch something as simple as the teleport bug? How did that even break? I mean what is the freaking Chaos Volley type abilities linked to teleportation and since you capped it you capped the minimum distance to the ground you can be when you teleport?

I mean I cant be the only one that thinks this is the most messed up patching they've ever seen? Its like they make a patch for the test server then they have some guy tack on 600 lines of code to Nerf Chaos Volley the last 10 seconds before they patch it live and no one checks it then they go, "Good Enough, stick it in the main game we dont need to test this we are 1337 coders." And then we get like 6 bugs that weren't there to begin with.

Honestly, you would be better off testing crap on the PvP servers so we can exploit the hell out of everything then FIX it and pass it on to everyone else. Cause either NO ONE plays the test servers or....or nothing the test servers suck and obviously no one is testing crap. To not even know about the friggin teleport bug means that not a single damn person on test was in qualia?

[imready2go]

Cause either NO ONE plays the test servers or....

Bingo.

Of course, if it concerns you that much, you could always roll your own character on the Test server. ;)

[vatoreus]

In all honesty, the "Live" servers are the Test servers in this game. Shit is so busted that it's going to take a looooong time to sort shit out.

[Grizzlebeard]

I haven't come across any serious issues yet but haven't played much to be fair. I did notice my necro pet now doesn't depop when I cross a chunk. Granted, I also discovered now that whilst it appears to be there it really isn't and I have to summon it again and have two pets permanently follow me around. They did appear to fix the grafts though to some extent but I'm still unable to have auto attack on more than one ability at a time, more macro mashing ftl.

[Vyvian Vycious]

The programers and developers at Sigil are extremely busy and don't have the time nor manpower to test everything.

That is not acceptable by any means. However, I feel the tools are there to make testing a more used technique. Each Developer and programer has five players that are assigned to them. When they pop something in, an email goes to their "team" to check out prior to the live server patch. IDK, give them $5 off their monthly subscription or something.

Anyway, there are plenty of players who would gladly test specific changes out in hopes of correcting issues prior to release on the live servers.

Just an idea.

[garath]

Well it also doesn't help if they drop a change on the test server only to patch it live - broken - a day later.

[Melios]

Since release every patch has been a fix 1 problem break some random code in 6 other places. And then every patch thereafter has been fix the stuff we broke the last time and pass out a bunch of nerfs/class balances.

WTH is the test server even there for if you cant even catch something as simple as the teleport bug? How did that even break? I mean what is the freaking Chaos Volley type abilities linked to teleportation and since you capped it you capped the minimum distance to the ground you can be when you teleport?

I mean I cant be the only one that thinks this is the most messed up patching they've ever seen? Its like they make a patch for the test server then they have some guy tack on 600 lines of code to Nerf Chaos Volley the last 10 seconds before they patch it live and no one checks it then they go, "Good Enough, stick it in the main game we dont need to test this we are 1337 coders." And then we get like 6 bugs that weren't there to begin with.

Honestly, you would be better off testing crap on the PvP servers so we can exploit the hell out of everything then FIX it and pass it on to everyone else. Cause either NO ONE plays the test servers or....or nothing the test servers suck and obviously no one is testing crap. To not even know about the friggin teleport bug means that not a single damn person on test was in qualia?

I don't know, but if it concerns you that much, go play on the Test Server.

[Aegorian]

Since release every patch has been a fix 1 problem break some random code in 6 other places. And then every patch thereafter has been fix the stuff we broke the last time and pass out a bunch of nerfs/class balances.

WTH is the test server even there for if you cant even catch something as simple as the teleport bug? How did that even break? I mean what is the freaking Chaos Volley type abilities linked to teleportation and since you capped it you capped the minimum distance to the ground you can be when you teleport?

I mean I cant be the only one that thinks this is the most messed up patching they've ever seen? Its like they make a patch for the test server then they have some guy tack on 600 lines of code to Nerf Chaos Volley the last 10 seconds before they patch it live and no one checks it then they go, "Good Enough, stick it in the main game we dont need to test this we are 1337 coders." And then we get like 6 bugs that weren't there to begin with.

Honestly, you would be better off testing crap on the PvP servers so we can exploit the hell out of everything then FIX it and pass it on to everyone else. Cause either NO ONE plays the test servers or....or nothing the test servers suck and obviously no one is testing crap. To not even know about the friggin teleport bug means that not a single damn person on test was in qualia?

so do you have a solution to this issue, or are you just adding to the crap posted on this board? As well, please elaborate on "break 6". Sounds like they fixed 1 thing and broke 1 thing. Hyperbole FTL. You lose credibility.

PS - the bug you're referring to should be fixed this morning. I dont care what kind of bugs they introduce as long as they keep fixing them that quickly.

[lostforever]

I don't know, but if it concerns you that much, go play on the Test Server.

What do they do with our money? I though we PAY so that they do the testing etc with it?

or am i missing something here?

I am a programmer too and we do have test servs as well, but if i tell our customers that go use the test server if they find bug in the live system, do you know what happens?

[Vyvian Vycious]

so do you have a solution to this issue, or are you just adding to the crap posted on this board?

He may just be venting like a lot of us. However, I put in a suggestion in my above post that could help. Of course, it will get lost in the flames and nay-saying...

Really though, I do not play on the test server. Really have no desire to play on it either. What I would do though, if given a list of items/quests to investigate, check them completely and report the findings to the developer/programer who needs the feedback.

Having to go in on the test server only knowing "this area has new X" doesn't provide for much information on exactly what they need people to check out. Just give assigned items to check to specific players on a test server so you know it is being tested and you get specific feedback.

[ZakzimusMaximus]

so do you have a solution to this issue, or are you just adding to the crap posted on this board?

Yes, make one of the PvP servers the test servers. That way we can have all the hardcore/power gamers tear through every thing find/exploit everything then they can fix it. This will solve 2 issues.

1) Craptacular releases to all servers from a non-existant test server base. Lets face it were all addicts very few if any of you will spend what limited amount of time you have on a test server that wont benefit your main.

2) Solve pvp related exploits faster. Also get some visibility to pvp related problems in the process.

I dont care how "busy" they are if they dont fix it they shouldnt release. They are wasting not only their own time by release after release of broken half assed patching that they have to repatch the next week, but they are wasting the time of the customer base. I can stand the beta release. What I cant stand is the game getting WORSE since the release. Every week there is some new issue/exploit that shouldnt even be there and every week some class gets made useless then 2 weeks later they get put back. Its like they have a monkey putting the code in random places when they update its the only way I can see that "FIXING" stuff creates more problems than they solve.

[Flight]

The programers and developers at Sigil are extremely busy and don't have the time nor manpower to test everything.


That just underlines the lack of quality control and effective management of the games development.


The whole ethos of quality is that doign it right first time, saves you five times as much work in the long run.


Releasing anything without assured quality creates more work than it fixes, then it just snowballs. This is what is missing from Vanguards development, throughout.

[ZakzimusMaximus]

That just underlines the lack of quality control and effective management of the games development.


The whole ethos of quality is that doign it right first time, saves you five times as much work in the long run.


Releasing anything without assured quality creates more work than it fixes, then it just snowballs. This is what is missing from Vanguards development, throughout.

Exactly my point. Every patch in vanguard breaks as much or more than it fixes.

BTW lvl 50 shaman wolf pets have gained 100% dodge as of the last patch. How does that happen? They didnt even do anything to wolf pets as far as I know. A lvl 47 sorcerer and a 50 wolf shaman in my guild took out a a 6 dot with the pet tanking and it didnt take a single point of dmg for 40 minutes.

[Hatto]

You can't overcome this with testing, as it looks like a serious flaw or lack of an internal software release process at Sigil HQ. And/Or a flaw in the design of product in general. Its not really possible to solve this with a testserver, last but not least because alot of people write down exploits to use them on live instead of reporting them. You need programmers guidelines and a qa department with internal testers, something which first is cut when you lack money...

[Bhron]

I am soo glad I cancled my account. Now i come here just to read up on the numerous other stupid bugs and changes just to get a laugh. I then laugh more about the people trying to defend this horrible game.

How anyone can justify the broken game is beyond belief.

Seriously, a game that ports you into the air with a death from falling dmg 2 months after release? I cant be the only person who finds that funny.

[Vyvian Vycious]

I am soo glad I cancled my account. Now i come here just to read up on the numerous other stupid bugs and changes just to get a laugh. I then laugh more about the people trying to defend this horrible game.

How anyone can justify the broken game is beyond belief.

Seriously, a game that ports you into the air with a death from falling dmg 2 months after release? I cant be the only person who finds that funny.

Bhron, since you no longer play and have the frustrations of those that do, why not take the opportunity to read and make constructive posts from the feedback others are posting. Coming here and laughing at the rest makes you out to be a jerk considering you don't even play anymore.

[combustion8]

I haven't come across any serious issues yet but haven't played much to be fair. I did notice my necro pet now doesn't depop when I cross a chunk. Granted, I also discovered now that whilst it appears to be there it really isn't and I have to summon it again and have two pets permanently follow me around. They did appear to fix the grafts though to some extent but I'm still unable to have auto attack on more than one ability at a time, more macro mashing ftl.

My wolf still depops when I cross.

[rhagz]

Bingo.

Of course, if it concerns you that much, you could always roll your own character on the Test server. ;)

Why would they need to reroll? Vanguard has 13 test servers already.

[combustion8]

What do they do with our money? I though we PAY so that they do the testing etc with it?

or am i missing something here?

I am a programmer too and we do have test servs as well, but if i tell our customers that go use the test server if they find bug in the live system, do you know what happens?

Being in the same profession I actually laughed out loud imagining this. "Sir could you please test our software for us on our test server?" ...click ...dial tone.

[Bhron]

Bhron, since you no longer play and have the frustrations of those that do, why not take the opportunity to read and make constructive posts from the feedback others are posting. Coming here and laughing at the rest makes you out to be a jerk considering you don't even play anymore.

Why would I have anything constructive to say about a game that I no longer play? I did state that I come here for a laugh at the game and its developers and the few people who try to justify it.

I "feel" for the people who are playing this game trying to get thier money's worth before leaving for a new game. I played a warrior and a rogue to 40 trying to get past the bugs and missing content. In the end, I could not justify the monthly fee when each patch kept adding MORE bugs than it fixed. Its not hyperbole.

[Paqua]

I play on test as my main server. If you want to affect change then come play on test. At peak hours there is maybe 50 people on. Kinda hard to test content when noone is here. During the day the number is as low as 20. See the problem?
Plus its not really a true test server. Occasionally a Dev will ask us to test something. But you never read on the test server forums "ok guys we are implenting the following things and need them tested prior to patching live."
Just doesnt happen.
So with the lack of population on the server and no real testing Im not amazed broken things make it live.

[DarkProdigyX]

I dont see what the argument is. Clearly the teleporters are intended as is. I mean what is this star trek? We don't have hyper dimensional shoot your body particles across the world transporters... wheres my lazer gunz?

Clearly what happens is the dockmaster gives you a swift supersonic kick to the rear that sends you flying to your destination. Yeah, you die on impact. Thats what you get for not taking a boat!:twisted:

[rhagz]

I
Clearly what happens is the dockmaster gives you a swift supersonic kick to the rear that sends you flying to your destination. Yeah, you die on impact. Thats what you get for not taking a boat!:twisted:

Of course taking the boat results in you drowning..

[Vyvian Vycious]

I play on test as my main server. If you want to affect change then come play on test. At peak hours there is maybe 50 people on. Kinda hard to test content when noone is here. During the day the number is as low as 20. See the problem?
Plus its not really a true test server. Occasionally a Dev will ask us to test something. But you never read on the test server forums "ok guys we are implenting the following things and need them tested prior to patching live."
Just doesnt happen.
So with the lack of population on the server and no real testing Im not amazed broken things make it live.

Paqua, what you have just described is exactly what my point is. The developers need to inform the people playing on the test server of what they have implemented so they can test it for them. Thank you for letting us know that what we thought (lack of real testing) was true.

No fault of your own or any other players on test. Simply no information given for you to do what you want, test!

[Melios]

Of course taking the boat results in you drowning..

.........still????

[Rx7TyreBurna]

LoL... hate it when you're coding and you miss that one } .....

LoL. Damn scopes.... Just glad the last bug helped rather then hendered.

Go Sigil! LoL

[Celidya]

The updates are a disaster since the open beta (and probably before although i wasn't here). At first, i heard, yeah, it's normal, it's open beta they are busy etc... Then, release. "bah, don't worry, it's early release, same in all games, blabla".

Now the game is out for 2 months, it's still the same total lack of any serious testing before the updates. Things like the teleporter bug are not really hard to find. I mean, anyone who play and travel a bit will meet this bug very quickly. Yet it's still in live, so i'm not surprised more complicated things are there for months now and still not fixed despite all the bug reports.

I bet it will stay like that for a while, so we have to get used to it. They clearly don't have the same quality service level than the average games out there, and don't seem to want to reach it.

[Oogg]

The reason that some new bugs are introduced after patches is because of time. They push out a patch every week, that is not enough time to fully test out a patch and have all bugs in it fixed.

Hence, they could push 1 patch every month that will not introduce more bugs. Would you be satisfied if they did 1 patch every month?

For some reason, I believe people are more satisfied seeing a patch every week. Gives a feeling of progression and quicker gratification for the customers, then one patch every month.

[Chae668]

Since release every patch has been a fix 1 problem break some random code in 6 other places. And then every patch thereafter has been fix the stuff we broke the last time and pass out a bunch of nerfs/class balances.

WTH is the test server even there for if you cant even catch something as simple as the teleport bug? How did that even break? I mean what is the freaking Chaos Volley type abilities linked to teleportation and since you capped it you capped the minimum distance to the ground you can be when you teleport?

I mean I cant be the only one that thinks this is the most messed up patching they've ever seen? Its like they make a patch for the test server then they have some guy tack on 600 lines of code to Nerf Chaos Volley the last 10 seconds before they patch it live and no one checks it then they go, "Good Enough, stick it in the main game we dont need to test this we are 1337 coders." And then we get like 6 bugs that weren't there to begin with.

Honestly, you would be better off testing crap on the PvP servers so we can exploit the hell out of everything then FIX it and pass it on to everyone else. Cause either NO ONE plays the test servers or....or nothing the test servers suck and obviously no one is testing crap. To not even know about the friggin teleport bug means that not a single damn person on test was in qualia?

i take it you have never programmed something before. even in teh simplist of programs i have done, if you add something or fix even the smallest of things, many other things dont work.

for example. i redid some code the other day, when i put it in, instead of an = sign, i put in a +.

boy did that screw everything up.

now, times that by 100+ with all the lines of code they have.
if you think it is as simple as you say, then you have no clue what your talking about.

[Freece]

i take it you have never programmed something before. even in teh simplist of programs i have done, if you add something or fix even the smallest of things, many other things dont work.

for example. i redid some code the other day, when i put it in, instead of an = sign, i put in a +.

boy did that screw everything up.

now, times that by 100+ with all the lines of code they have.
if you think it is as simple as you say, then you have no clue what your talking about.

What are you saying? So I guess its ok to be incompetent? It seems that the standard for mmorpgs has dropped drastically in the last few years. Bugs upon bugs are slowly becoming an acceptable part of the gaming community. the games have become more complicated but the programming is lagging behind. This to me is not acceptable.

They charge money to purchase a disc and charge monthly fees to play it. I dont care if someone ran out of money. That again is incompetence, poor planning and lack of knowledge. Had they known what they were doing, they would of known how long it would take and what resources were needed for completion in the time allotted. Hence they would not have run out of funding

I own a construction company. IF we are not done in our time frame I have to pay for it. Not the company we are working for. IF there is a mistake made by my people I have to pay for it. Welcome to the real world. It seems the gaming industry likes everyone else to pay for their short comings. This in my opinion is not acceptable.

Everyone has an opinion. This is mine and its old school. Take it how you want.................

[rhagz]

No kidding. If I went to my boss, or better yet my customers, and said 'but but it's soooo hard!' I would be fired on the spot.

[Multiplex]

No kidding. If I went to my boss, or better yet my customers, and said 'but but it's soooo hard!' I would be fired on the spot.

Thank GOD that video games aren't JOBS!

[rhagz]

Thank GOD that video games aren't JOBS!

But making them is.

[Multiplex]

But making them is.

Ah... yeah... good point.

[Rx7TyreBurna]

LoL....

I agree. What if other professions didn't complete stuff? Only build half of a building, forget wiring and some of the base structure. Maybe cracks in the foundation. LoL.

Maybe one of the engineers building planes forgets to throw in some wiring for the stabilizers. Then, when you attempt to fix it, maybe the planes brakes don't work anymore....... you think they would be fired? LoL.

Sub-par game. Maybe they don't have enough staff? 4-5 actual coders? College drop outs? LoL.

[Ralvark@Woefeather]

LoL....

I agree. What if other professions didn't complete stuff? Only build half of a building, forget wiring and some of the base structure. Maybe cracks in the foundation. LoL.

Maybe one of the engineers building planes forgets to throw in some wiring for the stabilizers. Then, when you attempt to fix it, maybe the planes brakes don't work anymore....... you think they would be fired? LoL.

Sub-par game. Maybe they don't have enough staff? 4-5 actual coders? College drop outs? LoL.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/special_packages/star_history/calamities_crime/12567150.htm

[Chae668]

i wasnt talking construction. i wasnt talking of saying anything to my boss.

it isnt incompatence. its the fact that there are thousands of lines of code for a regular program. can you even IMAGINE the code for this game?

just becuase i made a math error does not say im incompetent. it shows that i am human, and make mistakes.

what i was trying to get at is that even if 1 thing is entered incorrectly in the thousands of lines of code they have to go through to change something can be a domino effect on other stuff they cant see.

its not the same as if you as a construction worker puts 1 nail in the wrong spot. you notice it and fix the problem. sometimes they dont see it right away.

it has nothing to do with saying to my boss that it is too hard. noone said it was easy. mistakes are made. things get fixed.

stop over exaggerating everything.

[displeasingreality]

i wasnt talking construction. i wasnt talking of saying anything to my boss.it isnt incompatence. its the fact that there are thousands of lines of code for a regular program. can you even IMAGINE the code for this game?

The thing is Chae668, I didn't buy a game and then pay a monthly fee to 'imagine the code for this game' , I bought it to experience a fantasy game in massive setting with other people from around the world.

And its broken, totally and utterly borked beyond belief, not even mentioning the features that arent in the game as promised on release.

Why are you determined to defend people who have been getting paid FAT salaries for the past 4 years, and then fail to deliver? It's THEIR job to make the game, and THEIR job to make sure any updates are fixed and tested properly, and they get paid DAMN well to do it.

[Khaunshar]

The thing is Chae668, I didn't buy a game and then pay a monthly fee to 'imagine the code for this game' , I bought it to experience a fantasy game in massive setting with other people from around the world.

And its broken, totally and utterly borked beyond belief, not even mentioning the features that arent in the game as promised on release.

Why are you determined to defend people who have been getting paid FAT salaries for the past 4 years, and then fail to deliver? It's THEIR job to make the game, and THEIR job to make sure any updates are fixed and tested properly, and they get paid DAMN well to do it.

The PC game market has developed to a point where unfinished, buggy products are the norm, and every MMO is releasing in a state that can be described as less functional than advertised. Vanguard is no different, EQ1 or 2 were no different, WoW was no different, not to mention the more famous bad launches like AO or SWG. Its simply the norm.
Now, as paying customer, you have the right to say "I dont pay for this" and not buy it. Or, you can wait it out and see if they fix it. Or, you can cancel subscription if you bought it blindly believing it would be different, and it wasnt. But, since EVERY game, and EVERY MMO is released in such a state, no matter how much or how little money it costs, you basically have the choice of not playing ANY MMO, or playing one and dealing with the bugs.

If the icecream vendor only has strawberry, but you want chocolate or nothing, you either eat strawberry, or you wont get an icecream.

I am not saying this is good, fair, or the best way. I am merely saying as customers, we have to realize the market is like this right now, and deal with it, or not play. Its not like playing an MMO is one of the basic biological needs... well, not to everyone at least.

So, self-righteous indignation is fancy and impressive to some, but thats like making a big deal out of the gas prices going up. Yes it sucks, but no, it wont change, regardless of whining.
The day a game releases that is innovative, new, fresh, polished, virtually bug-free and all those other wishes that people wish for, THEN you can make yourself heard by leaving your old, and joining the new. And if everyone else does, cause everyone else believes things MUST change, this new game will prosper, and companies might learn from it. But lets face it, every new release this year is going to get flamed into the ground by the massive numbers of haters everywhere. Every game is going to disappoint enough to create horrendously bad buzz. Its not even cause of the quality of the game, its cause its the "in" thing to do these days.

[THC]

The PC game market has developed to a point where unfinished, buggy products are the norm, and every MMO is releasing in a state that can be described as less functional than advertised. Vanguard is no different, EQ1 or 2 were no different, WoW was no different, not to mention the more famous bad launches like AO or SWG. Its simply the norm.
Now, as paying customer, you have the right to say "I dont pay for this" and not buy it. Or, you can wait it out and see if they fix it. Or, you can cancel subscription if you bought it blindly believing it would be different, and it wasnt. But, since EVERY game, and EVERY MMO is released in such a state, no matter how much or how little money it costs, you basically have the choice of not playing ANY MMO, or playing one and dealing with the bugs.

If the icecream vendor only has strawberry, but you want chocolate or nothing, you either eat strawberry, or you wont get an icecream.

I am not saying this is good, fair, or the best way. I am merely saying as customers, we have to realize the market is like this right now, and deal with it, or not play. Its not like playing an MMO is one of the basic biological needs... well, not to everyone at least.

So, self-righteous indignation is fancy and impressive to some, but thats like making a big deal out of the gas prices going up. Yes it sucks, but no, it wont change, regardless of whining.
The day a game releases that is innovative, new, fresh, polished, virtually bug-free and all those other wishes that people wish for, THEN you can make yourself heard by leaving your old, and joining the new. And if everyone else does, cause everyone else believes things MUST change, this new game will prosper, and companies might learn from it. But lets face it, every new release this year is going to get flamed into the ground by the massive numbers of haters everywhere. Every game is going to disappoint enough to create horrendously bad buzz. Its not even cause of the quality of the game, its cause its the "in" thing to do these days.

I think this whole online gaming business is de-reailed and needs new innovative approach to catch a lot of peoples interest again, including me. I see cliche after cliche, same mistakes being made again and again by every single company trying to get rich on MMOs. Nowadays MMOs are just dumb cookie-cutter style arcade games imho. The business got stuck and it is not evolving anymore. I see problems in the future of MMO industry, unless it changes drastically. A lot of people are getting bored with the cliche. New games just re-do what has been done already. Cliche after cliche. MMOs of today SUCK ASS.

Vanguard will struggle, because It is yet another re-done version of what we all have seen numerous times. You need to surprise people to get them hooked. It only took me 1 month to get bored playing VG, I never log on anymore eventho I have payed my sub 3 months in advance. It is boring, repetitive and I have seen it all already.

[Vyvian Vycious]

The excuse that MMO's are just this way is unacceptable. Yes, all games previously launched had major bugs and/or issues. But why is this now the "normal" way of the MMO? People play these games because they enjoy playing games on a computer where they can interact with other people and create a character to advance in a fantasy world. They should not be told to "stop playing" or even "quit whinning" regarding these games.

Business is good in the MMO sector for those that make it to retail. What is mind boggling is the games that do hit retail and think it's ok to be buggy and lack the majority of content at launch. There are some games out, including Vanguard, that have great potental. Some that are out now had rocky starts but are balancing out now and doing pretty well. But why is it that we see Normal as Incomplete?

Games cost money to develop and release. But so does every other business out there in the world. Why is it that the gaming industry is allowed to be a subpar producer of quality?

On topic, since the above will probably be flamed for not being on topic... Give the players a chance to really help this game since it's obvious the time and resources are not there for Vanguard to test things themselves. Here's an example of what may help Vanguard:

Cylus, you have 5 players and email them about some changes or additions in the game that you worked on. Give them their characters on test and have them check it out for you. Get the feedback good or bad and then use that data to make tweaks or put it on the platform for the next patch.

If things are being tested on a test server by someone, is it that Test and Live servers have different codes in them that are effecting how changes are implemented? If so, have a dedicated Test server that exactly mirrors the Live servers so you can get an accurate test done.

The sooner patches stop causing severe issues, the sooner more players will stop posting retarded, whinny and obnoxious posts here on the forums.

[THC]

because games in general mean too much to a lot of people. Its like a drug.

They are willing to accept subpar quality product, because they need the crack.

Developers know they will get away with it.

Also, the competition on MMO market is quite weak.

People want to play, but there is not many "good" options really.


Why is it that the gaming industry is allowed to be a subpar producer of quality?

[Vengeful]

I think it's more like fix one problem you care about and you read about 6 other problems that may or may not affect you.

They are obviously fixing more than they are breaking. Drama llama ftl.

[Aroua999]

You know, people really do have odd memories.

I played Eq2, Horizons, Shadowbane and SWG at launch. I played WoW about 2 months after launch (where we are now with VG) and I have to say...none of them, even Horizons and SB had this many issues/bugs or missing features in the same timeframes I played them, and HZ was missing like all content above lvl 40, lol. Huge tracts of empty nothing. And SB would sometimes take 10 attempts and 20 minutes to even log in, but once in, all those games were far more stable than this one, and actually had 90% or more of the features promised within the 2 months time frame! Now some of those games have failed or "nearly" failed (HZ is down to like 5k people), and I'm not saying VG will, I'm just pointing out that this tired old argument is WRONG! You exagerate everything.

2 months after EQ2 launched, it had bugs, but lord, you could play it and it had tons more content than this game. The bugs were maybe 1/2 where VG is now, let alone performance. I'm sorry but it's true.

Yikes, the last week playing this game is turning me into a hater :-( I guess I'm glad it's my last day today, I can try and finally get tehedissapointment out of my head :(

[Aroua999]

I think it's more like fix one problem you care about and you read about 6 other problems that may or may not affect you.

They are obviously fixing more than they are breaking. Drama llama ftl.

Problems like where 1/2 the game population has machine guns for 4 hours? or where half the art dissapeared and you could walk through boulders and get stuck in walls?
Maybe the one where you fell out of the sky and died (teleporting or levetating).
O my favorite, the one where you get destroyed material for making grade A items, and later all class quest items resulted in destroyed material.
Oh, and the one where crafting Exp was reduced by 1/5th for a day on accident!

I had all those effect me, and those are teh big ones. Does not even count where recipes went missing, a quest I was half way through became uncompletable, or items in my inventory went poof. There are more. I'm sure some other people actually playing the game experienced these too. And I mostly craft! lol

Not everyone experiences every bug of course, but there are morethan enough to go around with each patch, trust me. If you miss all of them, maybe you are not playing most of the content as you claim to be?

[Vengeful]

Problems like where 1/2 the game population has machine guns for 4 hours? or where half the art dissapeared and you could walk through boulders and get stuck in walls?
Maybe the one where you fell out of the sky and died (teleporting or levetating).
O my favorite, the one where you get destroyed material for making grade A items, and later all class quest items resulted in destroyed material.
Oh, and the one where crafting Exp was reduced by 1/5th for a day on accident!

I had all those effect me, and those are teh big ones. Does not even count where recipes went missing, a quest I was half way through became uncompletable, or items in my inventory went poof. There are more. I'm sure some other people actually playing the game experienced these too. And I mostly craft! lol

Not everyone experiences every bug of course, but there are morethan enough to go around with each patch, trust me. If you miss all of them, maybe you are not playing most of the content as you claim to be?

Yeah and it's totaly terrible how they let all those bugs you mention ride for weeks without a fix. :rolleyes:

[Aroua999]

Yeah and it's totaly terrible how they let all those bugs you mention ride for weeks without a fix. :rolleyes:

Don't think the timeline was the issue, but the fact that they existed.

oh, and the Levetating one STILL exists to this day! yay?

and other went without fixes for longer. The big ones I listed got fixed pretty fast. Moerate to smaller ones take longer (I went more than a MONTH without my tier 3 grip recipe, as did all Kojan artificers, as well as being unable to learn it from Thestra, thereby making me unable to make any t3 weapons...period. For a month!)

Nope, didn't effect my gameplay at all for weeks and weeks :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh, and the destroyed material bugs still exits. Been over a month for a lot of those as well.

[Vengeful]

Don't think the timeline was the issue, but the fact that they existed.

oh, and the Levetating one STILL exists to this day! yay?

and other went without fixes for longer. The big ones I listed got fixed pretty fast. Moerate to smaller ones take longer (I went more than a MONTH without my tier 3 grip recipe, as did all Kojan artificers, as well as being unable to learn it from Thestra, thereby making me unable to make any t3 weapons...period. For a month!)

Nope, didn't effect my gameplay at all for weeks and weeks :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh, and the destroyed material bugs still exits. Been over a month for a lot of those as well.

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.

[ZakzimusMaximus]

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.

Even old mmos dont break this much fixing code for something else. And FYI in the VG beta the patches were like a month a part and they released without causing major exploits to like 5 other areas.

So this isnt just an "OH the game is new it has bugs" this is a "hey were doing this fast and half assed and were just throwing crap out the door to try and please ppl we will fix stuff on the fly after everyone has exploited it"

Most of these bugs just smack of the developers not even playing there own game. An HOUR of play time would have found the machine gun clicky, and the teleportation bug. I dont care how busy you are almost anyone can log an hour of game time.

[rhagz]

Lack of in-house testers and relying on the paying customers to beta test is the sole reason for it.

[Aroua999]

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.


See my other posts. No, I've been playing since 2000 and EQ1.

No other game I have played even at launch (including Horizons and SB) were this buggy, or broken. I'm sorry, they weren't. I stuck with horizons for 4 months too.

It's a tired mantra, it's the way of MMO's. No it's not. You just delude yourself into remembering the 4-5 annoying bugs in the first 2-4 weeks of a game. Some were bad to be sure. None went on this long or were this bad. 2 months in, those games were in much better shape than this one :(

Thanks for helping MAKE me a hater, when I used to be neutral...man I need to put you on /ignore, you just WANt people to hate this game, don't you? I DO want VG to succeed, you just want to paint everyone as a hater.

Edit: And i love how you dodge, the issue. Oh, you were not affected - yes we were. Oh, those got fixed fast - No they didn't. Oh, you must be new to MMo's then - No I'm not. What's next? Good debating technique though, they taught me that way back ijn high school too!

[ZakzimusMaximus]

See my other posts. No, I've been playing since 200o and EQ1.

no..other...game I have played even at launch (including Horizons and SB) were this buggy, or broken. I'm sorry, they weren't. I stuck with horizons for 4 months too.

It's a tired mantra, it's the way of MMO's. no it's not. You just delude yourself into remembering the 4-5 annoying bugs in the first 2-4 weeks of a game. Some were bad to be sure. none went on this long or were this bad. 2 months in, those games were in much better shape than this one :(



Thats exactly my point. I hope the devs read this and go "You know we dont have to shove out content so fast we break every other system in the game. The general public will be much more satisfied if the game stays stable and we release larger patches that are 90% bug free and dont wreck other systems we already have in game."

We know you cant catch every exploit but damnit I want the exploits to be to be at least difficult to figure out so that only about 4 ppl per server are exploiting them or even know they exist.

You cant even ban anyone in vanguard for exploiting because the exploits are so in your face its known to everyone on every server within about 3 hrs and so far everyone has been abusing the hell out of them.

I mean jebus the exp exploits you could practically sit there and do /who all 40 50 and see all the cheaters lvling every like 30 minutes to an hour.

[Aroua999]

Thats exactly my point. I hope the devs read this and go "You know we dont have to shove out content so fast we break every other system in the game. The general public will be much more satisfied if the game stays stable and we release larger patches that are 90% bug free and dont wreck other systems we already have in game."

We know you cant catch every exploit but damnit I want the exploits to be to be at least difficult to figure out so that only about 4 ppl per server are exploiting them or even know they exist.

You cant even ban anyone in vanguard for exploiting because the exploits are so in your face its known to everyone on every server within about 3 hrs and so far everyone has been abusing the hell out of them.

I mean jebus the exp exploits you could practically sit there and do /who all 40 50 and see all the cheaters lvling every like 30 minutes to an hour.

Heh, agreed totally. I remember how difficult just logging into Shadowbane was some days, the login servers wre a huge issue with that game, but once in, you didn't lag, crash, die for no reason, etc. And they did fix isues about once a month, and that was fine. We stayed there for almost a year despite gankers (sigh).

Slow down the patches and get them RIGHT! This is one of the biggest issues this game has. I might have paid for another month if I knew the next patch would bring in lot's of fixes, or even just a couple big ones.
But I know it'll just bring in more bugs and changes and "balancing".

[Melios]

2 months after EQ2 launched, it had bugs, but lord, you could play it and it had tons more content than this game.

Tons more content? I think you have them reversed.