Fires of Heaven

[Skarlath]

I was just wondering ...

Who are these guys? From what I gather they are a large gaming guild/community. They also whine quite a lot.

But what do they have to do with Vanguard? I also gather Nino is one of their officers. But still, people seem to mention 'things that have been said on the FoH boards', so I was wondering what is special about them.

Are they a big deal uber guild from Everquest?

Well I'm off to bed - I thought that if I post and ask someone might be able to fill me in whilst im asleep. That way I don't have to spend even more time rooting around for information about them. Selfish, I know, but I'm off to bed. Nighty nighty.

Edit: Urgh, im just having a look round their boards. Post after post of people whining about NDA's - "What's Sigil got to hide?!" and "If I get into beta im gonna break the NDA immediately!!"

I'm lost for words.

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

Yes, Fires of Heaven is a well known uber guild from EverQuest. They have built a large reputation for themselves, and were number one in EQ for a long time.

They know some people from sigil, and you are correct that several people from sigil are or were members of FoH.

Their community that they've created isnt the most savory or mature, but alot of their actual members, ones that have been around longer than their fame, are genuine and really into the genre, they just have alot of lackies.

As far as what they have to do with Vanguard, we have yet to see :)

[Kalyper]

A buddy of mine was in their guild in EQ1, and got kicked out for being 12 seconds late to a raid. How true that is or not? I'll never know. :/ But either way, yeah they were one of the top guilds that were hardcore, but with extreme rules and policies that kinda made you a slave hehe. But, they were always either 1st or 2nd to touch new content.

[Sergo]

I remember visiting their web site and seeing in their FAQ or somesuch "We beat shit down, end of story." The air of superiority they have is laughable. It's like if Luxembourg were threatening to take over the world. :rolleyes:

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a group of people that affirm their masculinity through video games.

[Raya]

I met the guild leader of FoH at the October Summit last year. I embarrassed myself by not ever having heard of them despite being in EQ for over five years. He was very nice, easy to talk to, and was quite forthcoming in how the guild had been built up and why it held the position it did. I had a lot of respect for him and his ideals.

[Fynn]

Ouch. If you were vetting applicants to beta your game, wouldn't you give a folks with that kind of attitude a very wide berth?

[Dillgaar]

The problem is that there are some pretty rotten apples in the bunch and although there are some decent folks with an uncanny understanding and feel for the gaming industry the others are extremely vocal and ruin their reputation purely by association

[Eclipse]

Yah, I have a big problem with that. I feel a great guild should not only be skilled, but publicly mature and sane.
If half a guild is awful and hated by the public, then the whole guild looks like a bunch of idiots.
I've known some of the FoH guys to be cool, but I saw way too much idiocy on the site to bother staying around for more thna 5 minutes.
The actions of one reflect on many.

-Eclipse

[Havelock]

A relatively small percentage of the people who post there belong to the guild, though. It's the flagship discussion board for MMO issues from the uberplayer perspective. Sometimes the discussions there are really, really good. Sometimes they're idiotic. It really depends on which portion of the community is most vocal in a given thread.

[Eclipse]

I would always give someone the benefit of the doubt. That goes for guilds too.
My guild in WoW was said to be elitist, and the community on the server either adored us and followed our every 'server first', or they hated us for not: sharing strats, linking the newest epics in chat, not allowing players to watch us, not allowing guilds to do content in front of us, etc. Pretty much anything someone could think of, someone found a reason to blame on us. That being said, we deserved maybe 1/4 of it. Some of our team acted like pompous jerks, but most didn't. The main gripe we got from the community was that only two or three of our entire guild was ever seen in 'pickups'.

Having been in the situation where the public labelled our guild as elitist, I learned just how broad and easy it is to label someone that. It was usually the people who applied to join, and were turned down who started calling us that, so we just shrugged and kept on.

But, in my opinion, to keep up any kind of respectful image, FoH could run their site a bit better. When I go there, all I see is FoH plastered everywhere and then a whole crapload of rude people posting. If these aren't necessarily the thoughts of the guild, it should specifically say so...and if it does and I just missed it, then it's my bad. Unfortunately, contrary to what people would like to believe, image matters.

-Eclipse

[Ominous]

Does anyone else have the problem of getting confused on whether FOH stands for Fire of Heaven or Flowers of Happiness?

[Ieranii]

Does anyone else have the problem of getting confused on whether FOH stands for Fire of Heaven or Flowers of Happiness?



*cough*choke*cough*

I'm going to go to bed chuckling over that. Thanks :D

[Kalyper]

Yeah it seems FoH is unfortunately spreading their name due to their immature half. There was another guild in EQ1 that were their rivals. A guild called Afterlife. They would FoH's main competition to get game-wide "firsts".I've dealt with these guys many times and have yet to see any that were as immature as the guys in FoH. AL was very much the same as FoH in regards to uberness, only they didn't spread their name through childish acts. They were the uber guild that would keep to themselves, including strategies and such. But they would also help out the community on their server when asked. They were invited into WoW beta and have been there ever since.

www.afterlifeguild.org

[Ieranii]

I wonder if they're watching vanguard...

[Dillgaar]

FOH?

you can be assured they are watching vanguard and quite possibly will have a presence...

Like Have said ( I think it was have and am too lazy to go back and look it up) but a majority of the folks on the boards are not in the guild... they are just a bunch of wankers leaching on to the popularity of the forums... they weren't always this bad... I remember a time when it was actually pretty cool to hit the FOH boards and see what they were doing but now a days there are just too many people out there looking to stir the pot

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

FOH?

you can be assured they are watching vanguard and quite possibly will have a presence...

Like Have said ( I think it was have and am too lazy to go back and look it up) but a majority of the folks on the boards are not in the guild... they are just a bunch of wankers leaching on to the popularity of the forums... they weren't always this bad... I remember a time when it was actually pretty cool to hit the FOH boards and see what they were doing but now a days there are just too many people out there looking to stir the pot

Yeah totally agree. It was really when they made the switch from EQ Fandom to WoW Fandom that they kind of lost their tact and class. Its sad to see alot of quality threads became flame wars or senseless drivel.

[Jave]

Keep in mind that FOH, as we knew them, no longer exists. They do not monitor the boards either. When Furor was in charge, the board was organized, and well watched. NOTHING, got by Furor. By now,with his absence, the entire organization has just dissapeared.

I was never in their guild, but I was in another top end EQ guild and would frequently talk with Furor and the other members of FOH on MIRC. I can assure you that they were all very much fun to be around, and 99% of them we all class acts.

[Sergo]

Does anyone else have the problem of getting confused on whether FOH stands for Fire of Heaven or Flowers of Happiness?

Yes, I grew up on Rallos Zek, so Flowers of Happiness were the first FoH I knew of. Flowers were utterly contemptible narcissistic jerks whose primary pastime was bringing out the worst in others via PvP, message board trolling, chat harassment, or anything else they could think of. They enjoyed using other humans as their playthings. While I can give Fires the benefit of the doubt, my mind is firmly made up about Flowers. I guess FoH just aren't very good initials.

[Loampounder]

Ouch. If you were vetting applicants to beta your game, wouldn't you give a folks with that kind of attitude a very wide berth?
Some background that leads me to think otherwise:

Brad is an honoary FoH member.
FoH is very well known in the gaming community, especially among developers and such. This is due to their many "firsts", their sheer size, and the fact that they are very vocal (squeeky wheel...).
When the first Fanguard came along, Sigil was inviting like 10 "community members" to an all-expense paid tour of Sigil and the game. We found out that "community" did not just mean the forum members, but people in the general gaming community. This included the established uber-of-uber guilds like FoH. Brad, rightly, said that these guilds were a good route to promote the game because they represent a portion of thier audience. Sigil understands that these uber guilds are a force in the community, like fansites and OVF members.

I suspect that Sigil will use uber guild members in beta because of their experience, drive, and depth.

[Havelock]

Among other things, too, the uber guilds also serve a key function as, essentially, in-game beta testers who can help the devs fix the top tier content before the bulk of the community reaches it.

[Woland]

I wouldnt delve deeply into the FOH boards, there are horrors there that would drive even dread Cthulhu insane.

[Ieranii]

FOH?

you can be assured they are watching vanguard and quite possibly will have a presence...

Like Have said ( I think it was have and am too lazy to go back and look it up) but a majority of the folks on the boards are not in the guild... they are just a bunch of wankers leaching on to the popularity of the forums... they weren't always this bad... I remember a time when it was actually pretty cool to hit the FOH boards and see what they were doing but now a days there are just too many people out there looking to stir the pot


I meant afterlife. I ought to check this thread more often. heh

[Havelock]

I wouldnt delve deeply into the FOH boards, there are horrors there that would drive even dread Cthulhu insane.

I give this post half a Hermione.

[Skarlath]

It's a shame that the name of a famous guild could be so easily besmirched by those loitering on the forum. To me, the guild is the forums, as that's all I have seen on them.

However, I hope that Vanguard forms it's own new, memorable power guilds, rather than being overrun with older ones. :)

[Avelia]

There were a number of raid guilds in EQ whose reputation spread from server to server. FoH was one of them. There were others, and which one was "the best" is a matter of opinion and also very much about how you define "best." Certainly there was no denying that FoH was a large, powerful, famous and dedicated guild who stayed on the cutting edge of the end game.

One of the things that made FoH a bit different was that they were more open about what they did and how they did it than many of their raiding peers. So their message boards attracted many people outside the guild who wanted to talk about game strategy, etc. Brad McQuaid and other designers were among their members, so that was also a major draw.

Over time, however, their boards have begun to consist less and less of actual FoH members and more and more of a lot of folk who just like to feel that they are associated with FoH. So it has become a veritable shopping mall. Yes, there is some good stuff there but you also have a bazillion kids hanging around spitting over the railings and such. :confused:

[Xhar Moondi]

However, I hope that Vanguard forms it's own new, memorable power guilds, rather than being overrun with older ones. :)
*cough*SV*cough* :)

[Saediien]

Yes, I grew up on Rallos Zek, so Flowers of Happiness were the first FoH I knew of. Flowers were utterly contemptible narcissistic jerks whose primary pastime was bringing out the worst in others via PvP, message board trolling, chat harassment, or anything else they could think of. They enjoyed using other humans as their playthings. While I can give Fires the benefit of the doubt, my mind is firmly made up about Flowers. I guess FoH just aren't very good initials.

So much angst. You obviously weren't very happy.

The irony is that anti powercampers who wanted to act like bluebies allowed the Flowers to do what they did so entertainingly well on Rallos and Sullon. They've given a lot more thought to what makes PvP fun than you might think. After all, it is a game, and the only rules that actually confine what you can do in the game--ex ante--are software-based. Expecting every single fat teenage boy playing a video game in his basement to conform to any standard of human decency when dealing with strangers in a video game is very angsty, especially on a PvP server. Call me crazy, but when I think about "bringing out the worst in others via PvP, message board trolling, chat harassment" I get happy. Truly, can the joys of smacktalk ever be underrated?

I think you missed the joke--people who play video games really shouldn't take them so seriously, and the people who allowed themselves to become the "playthings" of the Flowers needed a sense of perspective. The Flowers did a marvelous job of reminding people of that perspective through random acts of chaos and destruction. If you didn't like it, you should have moved to a blue server, or, better yet, a roleplaying server, noble sir.

[Saediien]

Fires of Heaven, I think, reached the height of its fame when its guildleader publicly demanded that Sony fix the Plane of Time within fourteen days or he and his guild would quit Everquest and he would change their website into a World of Warcraft site. Sony did fix Time in fourteen days, but Furor and Fires of Heaven eventually migrated to WoW well before its release. Later, Furor became a quest designer for Blizzard. Though many of his informative, witty, and vile posts are still available for posterity to read, he is no longer a public member of the gaming community. But he sure used to be, and the cult of personality that developed around him--and became mythic after the 14 days episode--has at least something to do with the populatiry of the Fires of Heaven site.

Also, their screenshots forum is known for posts of alternatively grotesque, humorous, and/or purient "not safe for work" images, and for the infamous "What the Hoof" thread, in which the forum member Kiksar recounted, through screenshots, his in-game confrontation of a professional pornographic model who has a RL physical deformity of her foot and also plays World of Warcraft, regarding said deformity.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Speaking of fires of heaven trying to access their site at http://fohguild.org/ takes you to a "this account has been suspended" page. This is very recent as I was able to access the site and see Brad's 5 latest posts in the thread about Oloh's write up just two days ago.

[Saediien]

Speaking of fires of heaven trying to access their site at http://fohguild.org/ takes you to a "this account has been suspended" page.

This happens regularly.

[Sergo]

So much angst. You obviously weren't very happy.

The irony is that anti powercampers who wanted to act like bluebies allowed the Flowers to do what they did so entertainingly well on Rallos and Sullon. They've given a lot more thought to what makes PvP fun than you might think. After all, it is a game, and the only rules that actually confine what you can do in the game--ex ante--are software-based. Expecting every single fat teenage boy playing a video game in his basement to conform to any standard of human decency when dealing with strangers in a video game is very angsty, especially on a PvP server. Call me crazy, but when I think about "bringing out the worst in others via PvP, message board trolling, chat harassment" I get happy. Truly, can the joys of smacktalk ever be underrated?

I think you missed the joke--people who play video games really shouldn't take them so seriously, and the people who allowed themselves to become the "playthings" of the Flowers needed a sense of perspective. The Flowers did a marvelous job of reminding people of that perspective through random acts of chaos and destruction. If you didn't like it, you should have moved to a blue server, or, better yet, a roleplaying server, noble sir.

Oh, wow, you're still doing it! Oh, alright, I'll give you ONE reply, but that's it! Then it's off to bed with you, young man.

Nah, Flowers were such a small part of the RZ experience, I never thought about changing servers. The danger of PvP added a lot to my years in EQ, and there were some great "love to hate" PvP guilds like Tier'Dal Templar, who would hang around Crushbone and "help" the orcs. Happy times.

I'm hoping that Vanguard will have an RPPvP server, but instead, I'll probably have a tough choice to make.

[Havelock]

I'm hoping that Vanguard will have an RPPvP server, but instead, I'll probably have a tough choice to make.

I think Brad - or maybe one of the other frequent blue posters - said he's pro-PVPRP. I need to go back and check, but I'm fairly certain about that.

And smack talk is so clearly one of the the best parts of a PvP server (though that may be because of deficiencies in the PvP games I've played - SWG and WoW were both lacking).

[Ominous]

I think Brad - or maybe one of the other frequent blue posters - said he's pro-PVPRP. I need to go back and check, but I'm fairly certain about that.

And smack talk is so clearly one of the the best parts of a PvP server (though that may be because of deficiencies in the PvP games I've played - SWG and WoW were both lacking).

I love RP PvP. How can you RP an sociopathic murdering outlaw, if you can't kill people?

[Xhar Moondi]

And smack talk is so clearly one of the the best parts of a PvP server (though that may be because of deficiencies in the PvP games I've played - SWG and WoW were both lacking).
Smack talking was at least 50% of the PvP in SWG :) I was completely heartbroken when I couldn't talk to the opposing faction in WoW...that is such a downfall regardless of the continuity involved.

[Wolfen]

Anyone know what happened to FOH's website? It's been down for a long time now.

[Havelock]

Anyone know what happened to FOH's website? It's been down for a long time now.

I don't know, but downtime at work is a whole lot less interesting since it went offline. I hope it's back up soon.

[Therian]

I don't know, but downtime at work is a whole lot less interesting since it went offline. I hope it's back up soon.

Ask and you shall be answered, Hav. :cool:

[Dillenger]

Now was FoH the guild that was actually banned from EQ for exploiting?

or am i thinking of Combine.

I honestly have the two in a toss up... but i guess since everyone here is saying they left for WoW, that wouldnt mean they were banned and went there afterwards ;o

[Croissant]

*sighs*, the website/forums were up this morning, but now they're down again :(

[Havelock]

*sighs*, the website/forums were up this morning, but now they're down again :(

Doh.

And Dillenger, FoH was never banned for exploiting - in fact, a number of FoH members have gone on to positions at various game developers.

[Sergo]

Only PvP related guild death I knew of was Darkenbane on RZ. Their guildleader was banned for some rules violation along the lines of corpse camping, and the guild went poof when he did.

[Croissant]

The site is back up for good now, hooray!

[Dillenger]

Conquest was who i was thinking of
sorry
They were banned for exploiting sleeper ;o

[Havelock]

Woot! Glad to see the site's back up for good.

[Therian]

Woot! Glad to see the site's back up for good.

'Good'? Perhaps not quite the word. :twisted:

[Eclipse]

PGT 4tw...

-Eclipse

[Havelock]

PGT 4tw...

-Eclipse

Don't be naughty.