Brad gives a little fuel for the fire.

[_Aatlaar_]

Brad posted the following today in a thread you can see Here (http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=201487#post201487) :


Keep in mind that a LOT of what the crafter produces is to skill up and won't be usable by characters so the economy isn't flooded by tons of crafted items.

The stuff they will create that will be useful to characters will be much rarer, the really good stuff on par with the rarity of finding powerful items as loot drops.

__________________
Brad McQuaid


Dammit E3 get here faster!!!!

[Genda]

Yep, Interesting stuff, huh?

[Destral]

/glares at that post

...

/Glares at that post

*GLARE*

....

"DEATH TO CRAFTING TREADMILLS!!!"

/glare

"My name is not Iñigo Montoya, but you killed my tradeskills... Prepare to die..."

[Nólaquen]

"My name is not Iñigo Montoya, but you killed my tradeskills... Prepare to die"
Wewoohoohoo! Look who knows so much! You do that and he'll only be mostly dead. There's a difference between mostly dead and all dead. :D

[Destral]

Wewoohoohoo! Look who knows so much! You do that and he'll only be mostly dead. There's a difference between mostly dead and all dead. :D

"No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Cardinal Fang, bring... the comfy chair..."

[Fozzik]

Do you want me to send you back to where you were?! UNEMPLOYED... IN GREENLAND!?!

[Feyshtey]

Anybody want a peanut?

[Destral]

I want non-treadmill crafting la~

"He hates usss, my preciousss...!"

[Genda]

My needs are simple, I just want a title in the forums like everybody else... And while I wait, Have fun storming the castle!

[Taleven]

Yes, Destral and myself feel the same way on this subject, seems they are taking out the 'desire' to even do tradeskills instead of making is a more balanced and all around system, just a few quick thoughts.


Also could a Admin here change my Nick to Taleven, I don't use Barur anymore since the OGaming.com buyout.

[_Aatlaar_]

I'll see what I can do for ya Tal.

[Nólaquen]

Also could a Admin here change my Nick to Taleven, I don't use Barur anymore since the OGaming.com buyout.
'Tis done.

Edit: Woops. Didn't see your post, Pariath.

[_Aatlaar_]

Ahh np. Thanks nola'


Macgyver probably changed it using a toothpick, some semi-chewed gum, and a sliver of tin-foil. It would have taken me a year with research grants from Vb. Always showing me up dammit, i'll get you macgyver!!

[Raya]

One of the problems I am having - while you can see at a glance which thread has not been read, once you are in the thread, you can't see which posts have been read and which have not. It makes it easier to miss some. Can this be fixed to show which posts inside the thread have not been read?

[Nólaquen]

One of the problems I am having - while you can see at a glance which thread has not been read, once you are in the thread, you can't see which posts have been read and which have not. It makes it easier to miss some. Can this be fixed to show which posts inside the thread have not been read?
It's small, but there is an indication. At the top of the post on the left where it shows the date/time of the post is a little icon:
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_new.gif = Unread
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif = Read

[Genda]

Bottom line on the subject of tradeskilling and treadmills; A certain amount of the stuff that you need to make you aren't going to need. It would be nice if there were a secondary market for it but at low levels that creates all kinds of other problems with the economy. So, people are going to have to treadmill to skill up if that is your definition.

My definition of tradeskill treadmilling is analogous to the level "grinding" that goes on. It's very difficult to keep someone from grinding or treadmilling if they want to get to max level as soon as possible. If you do manage to do that, you risk losing the tradeskillers that WANT to spend a certain, larger, amount of their time tradeskilling. Heck, in EQ when I moved over to the Stromm server when it opened, I treadmilled the hell out of of jewelcrafting and had my chanter over 200 at level 30. I was one of the first people on the server making resist jewelry. I actually had to get higher level enchanters to enchant some of the metals for me as I went because I wasn't high enough level to have the spell. Also, I had a friend in guild that preferred tradeskilling to fighting, so she would fight only to supply herself with trade components until she reached a certain level, then she depended on guildies to supply her for combines.

I guess what I am trying to say is that a large amount of treadmilling is in how you look at it. If you want some "realism" in the game, then you need to have failures and long times to master stuff, because that is how you would really do it. You aren't going to be making Platinum diamond 40-stone rings your first day as an apprentice. Only older players should be able to create these items. Anything less of an investment of time renders trade skills somewhat trivial.

Note from Raya: Watch for Silky Venom's interview with Genda regarding his new site VANGUARD CRAFTERS. Genda is knowledgeable and enthusiastic, patterning his service after the renowned EQ TRADERS CORNERS for EQ.

[Clain]

You aren't going to be making Platinum diammond 40-stone rings your first day as an apprentice. Only older players should be able to create these items. Anything less of an investment of time renders trade skills somewhat trivial.


I think the problem most people are seeing is the statement Keep in mind that a LOT of what the crafter produces is to skill up and won't be usable by characters so the economy isn't flooded by tons of crafted items

Whats the problem with being able to create a nice copper ring at tradeskill lvl 1 thats useable and usefull for the levels its created at? spending time making countless small metal bent rods that have absolutely no function is about the most mind numbing and biggest turnoff to crafting for most people.

[Genda]

I totally agree. I think in principle that the designers would like to be able to ensure that all the little doodads that we make will have a use. I think the problem comes in knowing just how much demand there will be for a doodad and how many of them we should be able to make. Also, in your example, who should get that nice little copper ring you make at level 1? How would you sell it? In Vanguard it appears that there won't be a central market or auction house for this kind of thing, so how will you know where the buyers are and how much to charge, etc.?

The other point I was trying to make is that some people won't care if there is a market for the item or not, they will just set to making as many of them as they can and then dumping them on the market at below cost just to get through and get ahead of others.

Hey, like I said I've done grinding myself. Why? Because on a new server I knew that if I wanted to have my share of the market and make a name as a go-to vendor, I needed to be one of the first. I've gotten that out of my system (thank God) but I can tell you that there will be those who will grind it if there is any way to do so.

So how do you stop grinding? Is there a game mechanism that allows you to do so without adversely affecting your ability to improve your skills? What do you do about all the people that are trying to make crafting at least pay for itself when others don't care, or are funded by their large guild and told; "just get your skill up. We need X and Y. Here is the money you need. Dump the stuff for cheap if you run out of bank space."

I'm interested if anyone knows how to balance that. I probably didn't communicate it as well as I could have but what I was trying to say is that grinding will happen. Someone will sell stuff cheap and ruin the low-end market. I don't want to make bent metal rods, unless I can put them into a doodad that I can then make into a frazbot. Figure out how to do that and I'll be a happy crafter. I think you get my drift.