You will come back if Sigil...

[Shandor]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling :)

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

[Molpadia]

I duobt this thread will realy survive the trolls and flames, but I'll give it a try.

I cancelled on Saturday. The reason was the proposed changes to the death mechanics. Long story short, to me, even considering such a change in the core mechanics was the last straw in what IMO, is a plan to make the game easier and more like every other MMO out there.

Despite Brad's protests that he does not thing people were 'lied to' or 'mislead' into what to expect in VG. I feel what was promoted is not what the game is becomeing. Being kind I will say it is a problem of communication. If I were the only one saying this is not the game I expected, then you could say I misunderstood. If 2 people say the same thing, perhaps it is a coincidense. If a bunch of people say the same thing, then perhaps the fault lies with the 'communicator' and not the 'communicatee'.

I posted for a couple days after cancelling, then followed the discussions to see any DEV responces ( or more accuratly, lack therof). I broswed the forums today, as a last look before I change my home page. What chance Sigil had to win me back has more or less expired. Even if tommorow they announced a complete change to everything I wanted, there would be no way for me to know. When I move on, I move on and don't look back.

[Mr_bloodworth]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling :)

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

[kcxiv]

First off, i think the death change isnt really nessecary, but even if changed, it doesnt change my gaming experience 1 bit. All it does is make me pop up at the altar with my gear. If i want to go back into a dungeon, guess what? i still have to fight my way back in. ITs not making it easier, its just making it less stupid. People play the game to have fun, not be punished for dying. Dying should just be ok, i gotta start over, not ok take your experience away.

Anyways, some people to get over it. It hasnt even made it to live servers.

[kcxiv]

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

how about we camp the Vex Thal shards all over again? haha. I never EVER wanna do ANYTHING like that ever again.

[Aegorian]

I duobt this thread will realy survive the trolls and flames, but I'll give it a try.

I cancelled on Saturday. The reason was the proposed changes to the death mechanics. Long story short, to me, even considering such a change in the core mechanics was the last straw in what IMO, is a plan to make the game easier and more like every other MMO out there.

so you quit over a change that may not even be made live?

cya EMO.

[Isobel]

First off, i think the death change isnt really nessecary, but even if changed, it doesnt change my gaming experience 1 bit. All it does is make me pop up at the altar with my gear. If i want to go back into a dungeon, guess what? i still have to fight my way back in. ITs not making it easier, its just making it less stupid. People play the game to have fun, not be punished for dying. Dying should just be ok, i gotta start over, not ok take your experience away.

Anyways, some people to get over it. It hasnt even made it to live servers.

It is making it easier. When you get your tombstone back (they can call it whatever they want. It's a tombstone. The lost tombstone bug still applies) you get all of your XP back. Just a minute ago, testing it on a character in the low thirties i before i died i had 51% into my level. When i got my tombstone back i was again 51% into my level. It's trivial. When i died, had i not gotten my tombstone back i would still only have lost 5%. That's what, three of four mobs?

[Denidil Taureran]

what change from challenging to easy.. i've expirienced no difficulty change in the game and i've been playing since beta 4

[Kopuz]

how about we camp the Vex Thal shards all over again? haha. I never EVER wanna do ANYTHING like that ever again.

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

[sweetdigs]

I'm planning on quitting soon.. The way Sigil can get me back? Launch the game they promised us 3-4 years ago.. Not this watered down, ez-mode, MMO-lite version of VG.

Make grouping the primary focus of the game again. Get rid of trivial soloing content and phat lewtz that can be earned from soloing.

[Aegorian]

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

anyone have the phone # for a good masochism hotline? :)

[Mardy]

This could be an interesting thread and a thread for devs to look at, if people can stop bickering back and forth and let people post what would bring them back. I'm still playing the game by the way, but am interested to see what people want from this game.

[Tanaril]

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

Why exactly is is a time sink to be punished for death? If u die u deserve a deterant not to do it again. If u want God mode go and play a fps or a console game.

In response to the op i have my doubts if i will pick up VG again, the mythical peformance patch wont be coming and i feel all the aspects that attracted me to the game just wont be appearing or have been watered down to fit the 'gimme epix' generation of gamers that have spawned lately.

TBH, after being into pvp heavily for the past year and a half i expect i will go down that road next (most likely WAR or Darkfall if ever released), it just adds something missing from a AI controlled enviroment.

[Aegorian]

This could be an interesting thread and a thread for devs to look at, if people can stop bickering back and forth and let people post what would bring them back. I'm still playing the game by the way, but am interested to see what people want from this game.

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

[Molpadia]

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

If you are refering to me, I also said the last straw. If you read the dev posts about the reason for the change in a core mechanic is a CS problem and in addition to changing the mechanics they are reducing the death penaly, added to the recent exp changes and many other things that make the game more easy mode.

Considering the proposed change in light of recent changes a person of average intelligence can determine a pattern emerging and get a handle on the mindset of those that will determine where this game will go. Every indication I have seen the game is moving in a direction I don't want to go.

I played as changes were made, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I get the impression this creature is a centipede.

[Elrar]

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all :)

[elektra]

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all :)

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't :)

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix them.

[Elrar]

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.

Not at all, we simply wanted to test the mechanics that are on test currently. We still feel the system is not where we want it to be, however, further testing and assessment is required.

[Mardy]

Thank you Elrar, I know you guys try hard, it's always hard to please the playerbase. I mean everybody wanted a "test server" right? But when you guys start "testing" things on the test server, people started to treat it like a live server lol. I feel for you guys.

I do think the current system can use some tweaks such as perhaps lessen the exp penalty when people summon their corpse to the altar. Also code in 2 release choices when people die, one says release to altar, other says release to altar with corpse. That way people will really know there's an option to summon in case they don't heh.

Anyways, keep up the good work.

[Isobel]

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't :)

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix it.

The current death mechanic isn't anything even a little bit "hardcore". Lots of people who play casually don't want death trivialized either.

I do agree that fixing the bugs that cause some people's deaths is a far better plan than than changing a working mechanic.

[elektra]

Not at all, we simply wanted to test the mechanics that are on test currently. We still feel the system is not where we want it to be, however, further testing and assessment is required.

Can you at least consider altars returning SOME xp when you summon. I feel no XP returned is way harsh. :)

[Istaira]

I do not understand the people who have quit and then in the same breath say, they will never play it again. Then why are you still here reading and replying to this forum which is dedicated to the game.

Are you absolutely sure you want to quit? If you not sure about it, I am really unsure what we could ever say to you to convince you to give it a bit longer. If I did know what to say I would say it. As I think you doing yourself out a good game.

I kinda think VG is like a good bottle of wine, the more it matures the better it gets.

I hope them that have quit or sitting on the sidelines, reconsider and come try it again or for the first time.

Anway best of luck :)

[Isobel]

Can you at least consider altars returning SOME xp when you summon. I feel no XP returned is way harsh. :)

I wouldn't have a problem with that if those people who got XP back when they summoned were willing to take a greater hit to the percentage of item degradation lost on death.

[elektra]

I wouldn't have a problem with that if those people who got XP back when they summoned were willing to take a greater hit to the percentage of item degradation lost on death.

I would accept that Izzy :)
it's just some times a corpse run is impossible and would result in far more deaths. Therefore, sometimes I have no other option , but to summon my corpse.

it would be nice to get some XP back, although ,obviously not as much as if you returned to your corpse.

[Zengrok]

5%. That's what, three of four mobs?Guess again.

[Soluss]

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't :)

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix them.

gave in to the hardcore? this game was always suppose to have a death penalty. You would not even have known about possible changes at all if it were not posted on test. There were hardly any complaints about it until it was posted...Therefore had it not been posted there would be nothing to be "pissed" about to begin with. The current death penalty is weak as it is. The so called casuals that whine about it are already given a few choices:

1. you can use an alter and take an xp and durability hit but get your gear
2. you can run naked to get your corpse and suffer almost no loss
3. you can soulbind your gear and make the run with armor...suffering almost no xp loss and making it a pretty easy return with full armor.
4. you can put backup gear in a saddlebag and use that for the corpse run...suffering almost no xpo loss and you can still trade your armor

If you chose not to soul bind thats your fault. If you chose not to have backup armor thats your fault. If you chose the xpo hit thats your fault. You died in the first place (barring bug fixes) thats your fault and suffer the consequences.

The so called "casuals" have already been given into in many cases while this game further and further moves away from the crowd they advertised to. Thats ok in your book to give into them but its a big pisser if they "give into" the "hardcore"...How do you give into something when it was how the game was meant to be played to begin with? How do you justify calling it a bad move for giving into hardcore but its ok to give into casuals?

Trust me this death penalty is weak to begin with...I went into a death frenzy and took a 40% debt hit in river velley trying to get my corpse at level 25...It took me all of 1 hour to do 2 quests to get back in the positive.

[elektra]

[QUOTE=Soluss;231851]

If you chose not to soul bind thats your fault. If you chose not to have backup armor thats your fault. If you chose the xpo hit thats your fault. You died in the first place (barring bug fixes) thats your fault and suffer the consequences.

QUOTE]

i think this is the only relevant part of your convoluted post :D

99% of my deaths and people I know are down to BUGS not player error.

[Elrar]

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix them.

Which bugs are causing you to die specifically? We've corrected many of the issues but I'll try and get a status report on those still lingering.

Thanks :)

[Penth]

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all :)

Yay! Thank you thank you!

[Fozzik]

You're only asking for a specific list of bugs that kill Elektra...not an overall list of remaining bugs? Just thought I should help clarify before the forums a splode.

[Soluss]

[QUOTE=Soluss;231851]


i think this is the only relevant part of your convoluted post :D

99% of my deaths and people I know are down to BUGS not player error.

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore.

You dont see how much of an ass you are being for making a statement like this? You are basically saying that it is ok to cater to one crowd but not the other. In another world that would be called racism.

[Istaira]

Which bugs specifically? We've corrected many of the issues but I'll try and get a status report on those still lingering.

Thanks :)

I still die around twice a day to CTD. The problem is how do we know which is hardware and which is a hipcup in the game. Sometimes I can get back to my corpse, and recover it, but sometimes, my char was still runing when I crashed and in a area that just means its impossible to recover.

Worst area ever I have personally found in game to cause me to crash, is Foulwood. I must of crashed at least 15 times in the last couple of days, in that area. Yet I can go to other areas and not crash at all.

[elektra]

Which bugs specifically? We've corrected many of the issues but I'll try and get a status report on those still lingering.

Thanks :)

Ok, well these are mainly on chunks.

Minor ones are like where I lose my pet, leaving me vulnerable to mobs when I cross the chunk.

More annoying is crashing on a chunk, leaving me dead when I log back in. That one happens pretty frequently still.

Also, sometimes I cross a chunk and have no control over my character and eventually she runs into a group of mobs.

I should add it only takes me like a second to cross a chunk normally, so it's not long loading times causing the problem.

I'll try to remember some others for you :)

[Pherillion]

gave in to the hardcore? this game was always suppose to have a death penalty. You would not even have known about possible changes at all if it were not posted on test. There were hardly any complaints about it until it was posted...Therefore had it not been posted there would be nothing to be "pissed" about to begin with. The current death penalty is weak as it is. The so called casuals that whine about it are already given a few choices:

1. you can use an alter and take an xp and durability hit but get your gear
2. you can run naked to get your corpse and suffer almost no loss
3. you can soulbind your gear and make the run with armor...suffering almost no xp loss and making it a pretty easy return with full armor.
4. you can put backup gear in a saddlebag and use that for the corpse run...suffering almost no xpo loss and you can still trade your armor

If you chose not to soul bind thats your fault. If you chose not to have backup armor thats your fault. If you chose the xpo hit thats your fault. You died in the first place (barring bug fixes) thats your fault and suffer the consequences.

The so called "casuals" have already been given into in many cases while this game further and further moves away from the crowd they advertised to. Thats ok in your book to give into them but its a big pisser if they "give into" the "hardcore"...How do you give into something when it was how the game was meant to be played to begin with? How do you justify calling it a bad move for giving into hardcore but its ok to give into casuals?

Trust me this death penalty is weak to begin with...I went into a death frenzy and took a 40% debt hit in river velley trying to get my corpse at level 25...It took me all of 1 hour to do 2 quests to get back in the positive.

The so called "hardcore" shed more tears over the proposed change on test than the "casuals" ever have. The amount of whining and "I'm gonna quit!" posts was outrageous. Yeah, you guys sure are "hardcore". I'll keep a box of tissues handy for you "hardcores" in the future, because the game isn't done changing yet. :D

You just keep keepin' on with your bad self and your superiority complex, I'll be over here with the tissues, waiting for you when the next changes go to test . :p

[elektra]

[QUOTE=elektra;231856]



You dont see how much of an ass you are being for making a statement like this? You are basically saying that it is ok to cater to one crowd but not the other. In another world that would be called racism.

Lol racism, you need to get out more.

[Oscarwoo]

Huge apologies everyone, for derail, now we have attention of anyone related to Sigil I have a selfish question:
Given even in Mr Brad's post about hardware he made mention of SLi rigs and this is not brand new tech and alot of other games already support this:
When is SLI finally going to be implemented?
(Also is antialiasing working properly?)

[BigMango]

I canceled 2 days ago. This world feels dead to me, I don't feel I belong there.

What is missing ? LIFE + LORE = SOUL.

I will come back as soon as Sigil gives a soul to this world and its lifeless cities:

- animate the cities
- add lore with a purpose (i.ex: history books scattered around the world -> book collections, what is this world, what am I doing here, what do I want to achieve ?, etc...) (yes there is diplomacy, but the diplomacy lore is only small parts here and there, nothing substantial)
- animate the world, give the npcs a life, birds & butterflies, populate water, etc...

Bonuses (less important but a big plus):
- anti-aliasing
- water reflexions
- fix the broken shadows (there are no shadows on walls, objects, etc...)


Edit : STOP wasting time on minor things and stuff that already works (i.ex: like the death penalty) and GET TO THE MEAT -> make this world a place we want to be in. (yes bugs are always a first priority).

[Elrar]

You're only asking for a specific list of bugs that kill Elektra...not an overall list of remaining bugs? Just thought I should help clarify before the forums a splode.

exactamundo. Gracias :)

[elektra]

exactamundo. Gracias :)

I hope I was specific enough :)

I could tolerate them if you allowed me to regain SOME XP at an altar tho :)

[sweetdigs]

Can you at least consider altars returning SOME xp when you summon. I feel no XP returned is way harsh. :)


Who cares if you don't get any xp returned? You hardly lose any in the first place.

My Little Pony Online --> That way.

[elektra]

Who cares if you don't get any xp returned? You hardly lose any in the first place.

My Little Pony Online --> That way.

edited for impetuosness :)

[Istaira]

Who cares if you don't get any xp returned? You hardly lose any in the first place.

My Little Pony Online --> That way.


Please tell me that when you get in to the 30s, you lose a fast amount and it does bite.

[sweetdigs]

asshole <==== that way :)

Oh, I don't deny it. :D

[Mardy]

When people fall through the world, they shouldn't die, but get stuck instead. I hear people still dying falling through the world. Perhaps make it so they get stuck falling instead of dying, that'll alleviate some frustration since people view that as a "bugged death". Having to summon corpse to altar after falling through the world can put a sour taste in people's mouth.

I personally haven't experienced that issue recently, but some said they have.

[elektra]

Oh, I don't deny it. :D

Telling people to go play another game is just as unhelpful as all the whining.

[PriusDriver]

How about posting on the subject, what it takes to come back.

And to answer, if we canceled, why bother posting? Just the subs were canceled, I didn't ask for my 100$+ back for the bought games.

I bought two games online with two subs, for myself and my 14yr old Wow'er son, who really wanted to try a new game, harder, better graphics, etc.

Our #1 reason for canceling was despite the fact that both of our computers are dual-cores, 2g ram, PCIE 256m graphic cards, performance was real bad.

Had to turn off sound and all the eye candy to get decent playability. We both use wide-screens 16:9 (1440x900 and 1920x1200) screens, perhaps that's a problem.
Yet other games play extremely well on our setups.

Then the little things like dying between sections, unfair ganking at the altars, brought us over the brink.

I've just tried this week playing Wow, I also play GW. For fun, to relax & unwind.

Know what? I miss VG! So I'll consider coming back when:

improve the 3D rendering engine. Use up 10 more gigs on my HD, I don't care.
anticipate that our character MIGHT cross to the next section, and load ahead of time for smooth travel
make a 25 radius area around altars non-combat. One night, just logging in, lag was horrible due to HD loads, I was ganked. Then coming back to life, ganked again, etc, etc, etc. Had to stay dead and SHOUT like crazy, plus other people. That 3 min thing doesn't work when logging in. Coming back to life, you can't move!!! What's the point?
our characters look lame, do what GW did with their char's
the chat box is horrible. GW's is nice & simple. Make it an XML file, so we can edit, from the headache one currently in use, to a simpler one if we wish.


These things, I honestly think VG can easily due in the next six months. It's easy for me to re-subscribe.

Actually - MARKETING VALUE HERE - Sigil, all those who bought the game and canceled, give us a 30 day freebie in our email, say in six months from now, so we can be happy and re-subscribe. :D

Till then...passing the time on Wow...god how I hate unmovable and non-transparent windows in Wow.

[Soluss]

The so called "hardcore" shed more tears over the proposed change on test than the "casuals" ever have. The amount of whining and "I'm gonna quit!" posts was outrageous. Yeah, you guys sure are "hardcore". I'll keep a box of tissues handy for you "hardcores" in the future, because the game isn't done changing yet. :D

You just keep keepin' on with your bad self and your superiority complex, I'll be over here with the tissues, waiting for you when the next changes go to test . :p

That should tell you that to most people the change was not warrented. It should also tell you that they were yet again thinking about taking a feature away from the people they ADVERTISED to. Now go back to your easy solo mode grind to 50 get all your uber loots with a key click and then leave the game because there was nothing more for you to do after 2 months. Then goto another game and try to destroy that one too.

I dont have a superiority complex. There was nothing wrong with the system. There was no need to change it. This game was advertised to be my playstyle and others like me and they continue to take away from that to suit the players they DIDNT advertise to. If you dont see a problem with that then it is you with a superiority complex not me. I dont go to WoW and demand changes to fit me. I simply find a game that does and play it. If I buy a game because it says that "this is what is in the game" then they take that out...to me is false advertising and lying to get my money. You dont buy a car with power windows, power locks, cd player, 8 cylinder motor just to have them put in crank it windows, push button locks, am radio, and a 4 banger. I expect a game to have the same curtousy. I dont mind tweaks here and there but when you take out core mechanics, it becomes a different ball game.

[PriusDriver]

(just cleaning up a double post)

FWIW, I like to solo & group. I'll solo in places 2 or 3 lvls below me, to pass the time, and harvesting.

[Branlin]

Telling people to go play another game is just as unhelpful as all the whining.

Unless it's Barbie Horse Adventure.

[timor]

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

I absolutely agree 100% with this. Seriously go back and play EQ1 for f%& sake

I quit EQ1 due to these time sinks.

Hope Brad creates a mega hard server so you tools can have your time sinks.

The challenge is still there. I'll bet playing with the OP would present a challenge in itself.

[elektra]

That should tell you that to most people the change was not warrented. It should also tell you that they were yet again thinking about taking a feature away from the people they ADVERTISED to. Now go back to your easy solo mode grind to 50 get all your uber loots with a key click and then leave the game because there was nothing more for you to do after 2 months. Then goto another game and try to destroy that one too.

I dont have a superiority complex. There was nothing wrong with the system. There was no need to change it. This game was advertised to be my playstyle and others like me and they continue to take away from that to suit the players they DIDNT advertise to. If you dont see a problem with that then it is you with a superiority complex not me. I dont go to WoW and demand changes to fit me. I simply find a game that does and play it. If I buy a game because it says that "this is what is in the game" then they take that out...to me is false advertising and lying to get my money. You dont buy a car with power windows, power locks, cd player, 8 cylinder motor just to have them put in crank it windows, push button locks, am radio, and a 4 banger. I expect a game to have the same curtousy. I dont mind tweaks here and there but when you take out core mechanics, it becomes a different ball game.


How many current MMO's are EXACTLY as they were advertised?

[elektra]

Unless it's Barbie Horse Adventure.

Or LOTRO :)

[Soluss]

I absolutely agree 100% with this. Seriously go back and play EQ1 for f%& sake

I quit EQ1 due to these time sinks.

Hope Brad creates a mega hard server so you tools can have your time sinks.

The challenge is still there. I'll bet playing with the OP would present a challenge in itself.

Why should we? The game was designed and advertised to the EQ1 crowd...how about you go play WoW or LotRo?

[elektra]

Why should we? The game was designed and advertised to the EQ1 crowd...how about you go play WoW or LotRo?

it was also advertised to the casual CORE gamer, that certainly isn't an EQ1 player :)

[Soluss]

How many current MMO's are EXACTLY as they were advertised?

Again, I said I do not mind minor tweaks.. The death system is a core mechaninc..thats completely different. How many MMO's have completely changed their core advertised mechanics?

[elektra]

Again, I said I do not mind minor tweaks.. The death system is a core mechaninc..thats completely different. How many MMO's have completely changed their core advertised mechanics?

SWG, EQ2..just a few for ya :)

[Elrar]

No need for insults here folks. 10% might not be a lot for some, but for others it might be all they've made in a night if they've done crafting, diplomacy, socialzing etc.

Everyone plays these games at a different pace and it's important for them to feel they can share their opinions.

Thanks all :)

[Blitzburg]

I will come back if Sanjaya wins American Idol... Everyone vote for Sanjaya!

www.votefortheworst.com

[Soluss]

it was also advertised to the casual CORE gamer, that certainly isn't an EQ1 player :)

Brads selling statement was that he would hope to get all the players that loved EQ up to velious...thats a bold statement indicating that those are the players he wanted to get...You dont get those players if that game is not like that do you?

[elektra]

No need for insults here folks. 10% might not be a lot for some, but for others it might be all they've made in a night if they've done crafting, diplomacy, socialzing etc.

Everyone plays these games at a different pace and it's important for them to feel they can share their opinions.

Thanks all :)

Agreed, 10% CAN be a lot to someone.

[Soluss]

SWG, EQ2..just a few for ya :)

EQ2 didnt remove any core mechanics as far as I can tell. SWG died after that change so what does that tell you?

[elektra]

EQ2 didnt remove any core mechanics as far as I can tell. SWG died after that change so what does that tell you?

Er, it totally revamped death penalties. I would call that a pretty core change.

[Soluss]

Agreed, 10% CAN be a lot to someone.

The way the system is designed you dont need to take a 10% hit...It is your CHOICE to take 10%.

[Branlin]

Or LOTRO :)

LOW BLOW!

[elektra]

The way the system is designed you dont need to take a 10% hit...It is your CHOICE to take 10%.

What if by going back to your corpse meant certain death. You have no choice but to summon.

[Soluss]

Er, it totally revamped death penalties. I would call that a pretty core change.

I must not have played it before hand...I started about 6 months after release. As far as I knew death was also a debt hit and nothing more. But hey if having xpo debt without the corpse run is good enough for you...you can already have it...its called an alter.

[sweetdigs]

No need for insults here folks. 10% might not be a lot for some, but for others it might be all they've made in a night if they've done crafting, diplomacy, socialzing etc.

Everyone plays these games at a different pace and it's important for them to feel they can share their opinions.

Thanks all :)

Heh.. Was just bringing out an insult that hadn't been used around these parts for awhile.

10% at current xp rates in VG ain't too bad, though. Still, to be fair, it's more than the xp loss you usually had in EQ1 given the availability of rezzes and the amount of xp returned.

What you guys need to do is allow your healer archtypes to rez people and return their xp. You guys need to start getting some class-interdependence back into this game. I hate quick travel, but hell, add ports to sorcs/druids. Add rezzes to healers. Give people a reason to need each other again.

BTW, Soluss is right. Recovering your corpse isn't difficult in 99% of the cases (assuming it hasn't gone through the world), and returns you a good chunk of that xp. Not your/our fault that some people are too lazy to go back and get the corpse.

[Branlin]

No need for insults here folks. 10% might not be a lot for some, but for others it might be all they've made in a night if they've done crafting, diplomacy, socialzing etc.

Everyone plays these games at a different pace and it's important for them to feel they can share their opinions.

Thanks all :)

I haven't levelled in adventuring for longer than I can remember. I'm still a 25 Druid.

I haven't levelled in crafting this week. I've been busy harvesting and making boats.

In short. I'm having fun doing nothing.


Cheers.

[Soluss]

What if by going back to your corpse meant certain death. You have no choice but to summon.

Ask for help? This game is designed for human interaction as well.

[Fozzik]

it was also advertised to the casual CORE gamer, that certainly isn't an EQ1 player :)

Core |= Casual.

I would consider myself to be a largely casual player when it comes to speed of advancement, and maybe a slightly more hardcore player when it comes to play time (I generally play every day about 2 hours or so, but I spend only about 20% of my time pushing advancement). My highest level character in Vanguard is level 17... and I've been playing since day one. Would you consider me "hardcore"?

I loved EQ. I am comfortable with the current death mechanic in Vanguard. Does that mean I'm "hardcore"?

I was not a crazy hardcore raider... in fact I hated the concept of raiding guilds and never joined one. Yet I liked EQ and played for 3 years.

I hate stereotypes.


SWG, EQ2..just a few for ya

Yeah, and those are games you want to emulate. :confused:

[elektra]

Ask for help? This game is designed for human interaction as well.

Lol...it's hard enough getting a group for anything.
Do you know how often I see people in chat asking for someone to help when they are stuck. No one ever replies though because the person is usually too far away.

Human interaction is fine, but it requires an all too often missing component...ANOTHER human being :)

[Champ]

...I had to pay to read the forums.

[Soluss]

Lol...it's hard enough getting a group for anything.
Do you know how often I see people in chat asking for someone to help when they are stuck. No one ever replies though because the person is usually too far away.

Human interaction is fine, but it requires an all too often missing component...ANOTHER human being :)

I agree the servers lately are light load and scattered throughout. However if you actually take the time to group and make friends with the people you are grouping with...overtime that can build into a solid everyday group...join a guild etc...However if you only group when you NEED people you will never make friends. I suppose I was lucky that I came over with 12 people from EQ2 and built a guild of over 100 people in that time.. So I never have problems. However I came to EQ2 alone so I built up my friends...because thats what these games are designed for and I know better. Without friends and groups I would just play xbox if I want to solo.

[elektra]

I agree the servers lately are light load and scattered throughout. However if you actually take the time to group and make friends with the people you are grouping with...overtime that can build into a solid everyday group...join a guild etc...However if you only group when you NEED people you will never make friends. I suppose I was lucky that I came over with 12 people from EQ2 and built a guild of over 100 people in that time.. So I never have problems. However I came to EQ2 alone so I built up my friends...because thats what these games are designed for and I know better. Without friends and groups I would just play xbox if I want to solo.

I was in a guild, but out of 70 members only 4 logged on regularly towards the end. They decided to disband and make a new one but I declined to join. I always try to group if I can but a lot of people only want to do their part of a quest and then leave.

i have friends ingame but even that number is shrinking as less and less log on thesedays:(

Anyway, my point is, often when I die I am crossing a chunk in the middle of nowhere, therefore I can't get help to rez me. Getting back to my corpse woould often involve further deaths. Therefore, summoning at an altar is my ONLY option and I just feel a refund of SOME XP would be nice. I'm not asking for it to be equal to a corpse run but none seems too harsh.

[Soluss]

I was in a guild, but out of 70 members only 4 logged on regularly towards the end. They decided to disband and make a new one but I declined to join. I always try to group if I can but a lot of people only want to do their part of a quest and then leave.

i have friends ingame but even that number is shrinking as less and less log on thesedays:(

Anyway, my point is, often when I die I am crossing a chunk in the middle of nowhere, therefore I can't get help to rez me. Getting back to my corpse woould often involve further deaths. Therefore, summoning at an altar is my ONLY option and I just feel a refund of SOME XP would be nice. I'm not asking for it to be equal to a corpse run but none seems too harsh.

Id have no problems with an xpo refund due to a bug...Its when it isnt due to a bug that I have a problem with.

[Elrar]

Improvements to helping players group and get together are definitely things we're focusing on.

We'll have more info on that soon :)

[Soluss]

Improvements to helping players group and get together are definitely things we're focusing on.

We'll have more info on that soon :)

Yes Elrar that is totally needed. I think 1 big problem is there is no benefit to grouping. It needs to stand out. For instance. Gear...you can get gear that is equal to anything you can group for. XP you can get just as good xp solo as you can in grouping. Give reasons for people to go into dungeons (better quest rewards then you can get by soloing or buying/ better loot drops off namers/ big xp bonus both for group and for dungeons themselves). There is no enticement to group when the risk far outweighs the reward. There is no enticement to group when it is much more efficient to solo.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they should not have solo content. I think it should be possible to solo all the way.... I just think it should be harder xp to solo (like was advertised) and I think the rewards should nowhere near be as good...or atleast not come anywhere near as easy. There is a difference between forced grouping and enticed grouping. As long as you have a path to do both for everyone but the rewards are better for a group it is fine imo.

[Juk]

Improvements to helping players group and get together are definitely things we're focusing on.

We'll have more info on that soon :)

Thanks for the info.

From my perspective (love to solo dangerous places, and group 50/50) I have found that while there is tons of 'solo content', I often think back to that mountain outside Martok, where you had to fight up to the top. That was THE BEST solo game time I have ever had in any game. It gave me the dongeon crawl expiriance but soloable. I am always on the lookout for more of those *couhintgh*:p

[elektra]

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they should not have solo content. I think it should be possible to solo all the way.... I just think it should be harder xp to solo (like was advertised) and I think the rewards should nowhere near be as good...or atleast not come anywhere near as easy.

Grouping is good but sometimes you just have time to solo. I think if you start favouring grouping significantly over solo play it could alienate a lot of players.

The reasons for grouping shouldn't be awesome XP or gear it should be because it's more fun to play with others than to solo.

[Istaira]

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they should not have solo content. I think it should be possible to solo all the way.... I just think it should be harder xp to solo (like was advertised) and I think the rewards should nowhere near be as good...or atleast not come anywhere near as easy.

They do that and I would quit. I am tolerating the ctds, and deaths, I am going with what is on offer currently and I can and will be patient till its sorted but they even think about nefting the solo exp again and I will quit.

It is so flustrating to die to a ctd, its hard to solo and it is a nightmare to group because of the ctds, I do not want to constantly appogise to a group because I droped yet again. So for now till its fixed I avoid grouping.

They mess with the exp and for me the game is no longer fun, but some dinosaur they trying to rezz.

[Snowman]

Lol...it's hard enough getting a group for anything.
Do you know how often I see people in chat asking for someone to help when they are stuck. No one ever replies though because the person is usually too far away.

Y'know, im actually struggling to think of a game released after two months that doesnt have this problem!

And to be fair, there is SO much to do in vanguard that when you get stuck for a group, or need realy help, often you can carry on with something else, even if its just exploring, then, keep an eye out for other players or for LFG on chat.

If a player crying for help gets ignored, then its usually a good sign that they should be able to help themselves, or the answers is obvious if they just botherd to explore a bit.

Its either that, or they havnt been very specific about what they need help with..

I ignored this plea for help today..

"Can someone help me with this boss?"

I refuse to answer that! what boss?.. where?.. what level is he? what level are you?.. Im not going to msg you to find out, I have other stuff to do"

If were worded to..

"lvl 11 Cleric needs help near x-village killing level 14 Boss, need dps"

Then I might think, ah! Im not that far actually, and could do with the XP, also there are some cotton plants near there I need... This Work Order can wait! - And I dont mind helping out a cleric because im sure he would return the favor one day! - Even if he were MILES away, he would wait and I wouldnt mind journeying..

In the early stages of a games release when players are few, you just have to put more effort in!

[Mardy]

Pump more quests out for players lvl 36+ please, this will help keep some of the current players that find themselves stuck after lvl 36. Finding groups is hard sometimes (not all the time), and when people can't find groups, and they are the adventure type, they will find a lack of things to do if they are over lvl 36 at the moment.

During the first month of launch, a lot of my friends never made it past the teen levels due to the bugs & exp changes. I think if they do come back now, you guys have pretty solid polish for newbie to mid-range content, and a nice leveling speed. But I find once again people are getting stuck during a certain level range now, this time it's after lvl 36, because their options are more limited, and most of the content available are all group content.

More quests to get players into their 40's will help, and of course raid will always attract guilds to this game =) I do think the proposed "summon" will really help when it comes to getting people to their groups, and at the same time, promoting people to actually do things while they are waiting for LFG. Right now a lot of people don't roam around too far from where they want to group at, because when they do get invited, they'll then have to spend a lot of time running.

[Soluss]

Thanks for the info.

From my perspective (love to solo dangerous places, and group 50/50) I have found that while there is tons of 'solo content', I often think back to that mountain outside Martok, where you had to fight up to the top. That was THE BEST solo game time I have ever had in any game. It gave me the dongeon crawl expiriance but soloable. I am always on the lookout for more of those *couhintgh*:p

I love to both group and solo. I like to group mostly but there are times that I like to just chill or I cant give the needed attention to the group. I think the coolest solo thing I have ever seen was Harclave (splitpaw pack from EQ2)

[Soluss]

They do that and I would quit. I am tolerating the ctds, and deaths, I am going with what is on offer currently and I can and will be patient till its sorted but they even think about nefting the solo exp again and I will quit.

It is so flustrating to die to a ctd, its hard to solo and it is a nightmare to group because of the ctds, I do not want to constantly appogise to a group because I droped yet again. So for now till its fixed I avoid grouping.

They mess with the exp and for me the game is no longer fun, but some dinosaur they trying to rezz.

Gah I knew people would misundestand.. I dont want them to nerf solo xp, i want them to make a BONUS for grouping.

[sweetdigs]

Grouping is good but sometimes you just have time to solo. I think if you start favouring grouping significantly over solo play it could alienate a lot of players.

The reasons for grouping shouln't be awesome XP or gear it should be because it's more fun to play with others than to solo.

Unfortunately they've already alienated a significant # of their original player base by making soloing so easy and rewarding. Which makes finding groups even harder. It's a reinforcing effect until nobody is able to group any more.

One of the reasons you're having a hard time finding people to group with, as you posted earlier in this thread? You can thank the highly rewarding ability to solo in VG.

I agree with Sol. It should be possible to solo. But it should be nowhere near as rewarding as grouping. I'd still solo if I only had time to do so. You're still advancing or increasing your bank account. Or I would craft or do diplomacy. But when I have time to group, it makes it awfully tough to do so when everybody who has the time would still prefer to solo because it's at least as rewarding.

[Pherillion]

That should tell you that to most people the change was not warrented. It should also tell you that they were yet again thinking about taking a feature away from the people they ADVERTISED to. Now go back to your easy solo mode grind to 50 get all your uber loots with a key click and then leave the game because there was nothing more for you to do after 2 months. Then goto another game and try to destroy that one too.

*sigh* Most people that play the game don't even post on any forum. It simply demonstrates that a portion of the SV posters didn't like the change, nothing more. Go back to EQ yourself then, the game you want is out there already. :rolleyes: Yep. WOW sure is destroyed, a virtual ghost town. Making a game accessible and playable is truly a bad idea. :rolleyes: This game isn't EQ or WOW, it's VG. Sigil is going to make changes based on whatever fits their vision, and currently I'd be willing to bet thats to pay the bills on that 40 mil pricetag. The audience you think they advertised to (we disagree on that audience, and apparently the CEO does too) isn't big enough to pay that bill, so changes will be made. Live with it. Or not. Tissue?

I dont have a superiority complex.

Then why all the condescension and arrogance?

There was nothing wrong with the system. There was no need to change it.

Apparently the Devs disagree.

This game was advertised to be my playstyle and others like me and they continue to take away from that to suit the players they DIDNT advertise to.

Gee, it was advertised to meet my playstyle as well, and surprise! - Our playstyles differ. Amazing thing that different perceptions result in different expectations. :rolleyes:

If you dont see a problem with that then it is you with a superiority complex not me.

Every post I make does not contain derisive remarks about a different segment of the playerbase, unlike yours.

I dont go to WoW and demand changes to fit me.

No, you simply find another game and demand for it not to change to fit you because advertisements are undeniably true!

I simply find a game that does and play it.

And how many times have you lamented on these boards that this is not it?

If I buy a game because it says that "this is what is in the game" then they take that out...to me is false advertising and lying to get my money.

What you are referring to is the development hype - most everything the box stated (with exceptions) is in the game. If you are unable to distinguish between development hype and reality, it's not a matter of being lied to - it's a matter of perception.

You dont buy a car with power windows, power locks, cd player, 8 cylinder motor just to have them put in crank it windows, push button locks, am radio, and a 4 banger. I expect a game to have the same curtousy. I dont mind tweaks here and there but when you take out core mechanics, it becomes a different ball game.

This isn't a car, it's a MMO - your analogy doesn't fly. When did they remove core mechanics? A death penalty still existed, even if you didn't think it was harsh enough. If they took death out altogether and you couldn't die, then you could argue they removed the mechanic.

[Elrar]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

[sweetdigs]

They do that and I would quit. I am tolerating the ctds, and deaths, I am going with what is on offer currently and I can and will be patient till its sorted but they even think about nefting the solo exp again and I will quit.

It is so flustrating to die to a ctd, its hard to solo and it is a nightmare to group because of the ctds, I do not want to constantly appogise to a group because I droped yet again. So for now till its fixed I avoid grouping.

They mess with the exp and for me the game is no longer fun, but some dinosaur they trying to rezz.


Umm.. When did they "nerf" solo xp? I can't recall them ever doing so. In fact, they've only INCREASED soloing xp since late beta.

So a more rewarding xp rate for grouping than soloing makes the game no longer fun for you?

[elektra]

Unfortunately they've already alienated a significant # of their original player base by making soloing so easy and rewarding. Which makes finding groups even harder. It's a reinforcing effect until nobody is able to group any more.

One of the reasons you're having a hard time finding people to group with, as you posted earlier in this thread? You can thank the highly rewarding ability to solo in VG.

I agree with Sol. It should be possible to solo. But it should be nowhere near as rewarding as grouping. I'd still solo if I only had time to do so. You're still advancing or increasing your bank account. Or I would craft or do diplomacy. But when I have time to group, it makes it awfully tough to do so when everybody who has the time would still prefer to solo because it's at least as rewarding.

Doesn't that say more about the way people like to play thesedays though?

if they are taking the solo option they must prefer it, most people I know group because they enjoy the social aspect of it. I don't think if you made soloing less rewarding you would see a huge increase in people grouping, most likely they would quit.

[ikaoma420]

Brads selling statement was that he would hope to get all the players that loved EQ up to velious...thats a bold statement indicating that those are the players he wanted to get...You dont get those players if that game is not like that do you?


Ever heard of marketing hype? It was in his best interest at the time to say that to get a group of people really excited about the game and hopefully gain some word of mouth advertising. Unfortunately I believe it backfired on him.

[OldschoolEQer]

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all :)

Im sure you guys have already thought about this but here it is. If tombstones and what not are such a big problem of exploits and people summoning and what not. Just make graveyards like in PoP expansion in EQ. Problem solved ... you cant get back to your tombstone in 15 or 20 min then it pops at the alter done deal no dragging exploits ... keeps the risk factor with if you wipe you have to start over unless you get a quick CR. And those who dont like CR's just afk at the alter and boom ...they get there body back after a short spell problem solved.

[Istaira]

Umm.. When did they "nerf" solo xp? I can't recall them ever doing so. In fact, they've only INCREASED soloing xp since late beta.

So a more rewarding xp rate for grouping than soloing makes the game no longer fun for you?

Acutally they nefted it right after release, when they released it was a bit to high.

No go back and read what I wrote then reply to me.

[ikaoma420]

I must not have played it before hand...I started about 6 months after release. As far as I knew death was also a debt hit and nothing more. But hey if having xpo debt without the corpse run is good enough for you...you can already have it...its called an alter.

If I remember correctly and a lot of people I know quit over the shared XP death mechanic in group. They got rid of that and I really believe that was a core mechanic of the game.

[elektra]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

I always use LFG, advertise myself in the channels etc. I never start a group tho, I must admit. Hard though it is to believe, I'm actually too shy to be group leader ingame lol.

I think ease of travel to a destination is one of the biggest factors, when I do get a group we can often wait ages for everyone to arrive. The sheer size of the world is wonderful but also one of it's biggest difficulties.

[Mardy]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?


I find that when I put the time into creating a group, I have good success at getting a group together. However, I think it's hard for some people because they mostly put up LFG and just wait for an invite.

What I think will help is to give a semi-group the ability to put up "LFM". So instead of the LFG panel showing just the LFG people, it would show the LFM groups. This will guaranteed to get more people into groups, people just think weird, and sometimes they are shy or just don't want to put together a group and rather be invited. But if you allow them to see what groups are looking for more, what groups are doing what, they just may send a tell to someone and ask to get joined.

I think I saw this tool in EQ2, maybe not I forgot where. But I really do think it'll be beneficial for someone, say I have a group of 3 setup, and I can place my group on LFM. And there should be a 1 line notes stating what my group is looking to do, and the panel should also show what class/levels are in my group at the moment. This will really really help I think.

This also will promote people getting a duo together, so they can at least do something while waiting for the group to form. It's a reverse of LFG, and I find it working better than LFG. I find it useful ahead of the time if a group is looking to grind exp or if they only want to shoot to complete certain quests.

Also your proposed "summon" ability will really help, it needs to go into the game soon. Like I said before, a lot of people don't do much while waiting for LFG because they don't want the hassle of having to run to the group spot when they do get called up. You want people to want to explore, crafting, harvest, do different things while waiting so they don't feel the time is wasted. If your summon ability goes in so someone in a group can summon you while using the recall timer, that will really help.

My suggestion.

[sweetdigs]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

My attempt at a constructive response.

It depends. If you want to hit one of THE main themed dungeons (i.e. CIS, etc), then no, it's not too hard to find a group. If you want to do anything outside of those, then yes, it can be very hard.

Even if you can find a group outside of those, usually it's just for the purpose of running some group quest and then the group breaks up. This is one of the things I feared most about a quest-oriented game and disliked the most about WoW and EQ2. And it's rearing its ugly head in VG, too. This happens in LOTRO all the time too, btw.

My opinion for why groups aren't plentiful? Soloing is too rewarding relative to grouping. Most of the people I know in game are soloing a majority of the time - even the people who are on all night. They're grinding missives to level up and get phat lewtz.

I do try to use the lfg tool as well as /ooc and even the /craft chat channel sometimes. I sometimes try to start a group, usually I'm one of those people shouting /lfg instead. Would love some sort of auto-matchmaker system that creates a group for us.

Grouping needs to be more rewarding. I spent several nights in great groups in Khegor's End about a month ago. We never got a single good drop in all our time down there. Not a single rare. Yet, as a lvl 36 crafter, I can create endless amounts of "rare" items. I'm not complaining that crafters can create great gear or asking for crafters to be nerfed - my problem is that things are way out of balance in terms of the rarity. My preference would be for crafting gear that is supposed to be rare or ultra rare to actually be so.

A good group should come out of a dungeon crawl with at least a few upgrades, assuming that dungeon is an equivalent level. Places like the Riftseeker's Torrent are much better as far as itemization goes (some really good items from the named gargoyle, for instance, as well as some other rare 3 and 4 dot spawns).. KE - never saw anything like that.

Conversely, I can go run 10 missives that are incredibly easy with no risk of death and get a rare quality item out of it? Plus make more xp and get more cash because I don't have to split the cash loot drops and the 2 dot mobs drop the same amount of cash and cash loot as 4 dots? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why people aren't grouping much anymore.

[sweetdigs]

Doesn't that say more about the way people like to play thesedays though?

if they are taking the solo option they must prefer it, most people I know group because they enjoy the social aspect of it. I don't think if you made soloing less rewarding you would see a huge increase in people grouping, most likely they would quit.

No, it means more people will take the path that provides the best rewards - which is pretty much a no brainer. If grouping was more rewarding, people would group. If soloing was more rewarding, people would solo.

Path of least resistance and all that. It says nothing about what a person's preference is.

[Juk]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Well, I boycott the region channel because it's full of BS that i don't want on my screen. I only use the LFG, and I'm a healer so I get picked up at a often enough.

My main issue that I have found is that folks ONLY want to group for the armor quest places. And i am sick of those myself.

Overall, and I partially find this with myself is that I am so gunshy when it comes to forming a group myself because of all the issues associated with them (travel time, crashes, bugs, and those irritating leet-speakers).

Now, if you could just code it so that anyone who types a LOL or WTF in chat everyone in the party gets to b-slap him/her, things would be great!

Overall, the most troublesome problem with grouping is the travel time...some sort of group summoning ability is needed (maybe port the summoned to the nearest bind stone area, with an hour CD?).

[Mitch]

Regardless what Sigil do, all this old outburned nerds will never be pleased.They will always find a reason to bitch and tell why they quit as next. This old geezers are those who ruin the game. They should go to their retirement home, EQ1, and shut up.

[elektra]

Path of least resistance and all that.

I agree with that, but I'm not so sure as many people would play if they HAD to group to get decent XP and rewards. If you make soloing a poor relation, those who do like to solo, may just up and leave.

[sweetdigs]

Regardless what Sigil do, all this old outburned nerds will never be pleased.They will always find a reason to bitch and tell why they quit as next. This old geezers are those who ruin the game. They should go to their retirement home, EQ1, and shut up.

Yikes. You're a fount of tolerance and compassion. Me thinks you should probably return to school.

[sweetdigs]

I agree with that, but I'm not so sure as many people would play if they HAD to group to get decent XP and rewards. If you make soloing a poor relation, those who do like to solo, may just up and leave.

Maybe.. but maybe not.. This was supposed to a group-oriented game, where the best rewards come from grouping.

I think the soloers would stick around even if levelling was slower. After all, these tend to be more casual players right? So what if they can't level as quickly as groupers?

And if they really want to level more quickly, then they can group, which improves the community.

[Istaira]

This is a mute point Elrar, some of us want to group but the preformance means we cant. Someone just above this post as said they get gunish with people who ctd, I have come across this and its a horrible atompshere.

A lot are going solo to save the hassle, you also get a lot of as someone else said above leet folk that think they know it all and would frog march you in and out of dungoens if they could.

When preformances picks up so will groups I am sure. But I do agree that there seems to many rare drops, its making a lot of items useless.

You look on the exchange at these so called rares and theres is tons of people selling that rare. The rares are flipping common not rare.

Make them rares and people will group to get them.

[elektra]

[QUOTE=sweetdigs;232038]Maybe.. but maybe not.. This was supposed to a group-oriented game, where the best rewards come from grouping.
QUOTE]

I think that will come once raiding is in the game. Often the best gear is to be gained from raids.

[Speaker]

Ok, well these are mainly on chunks.

Minor ones are like where I lose my pet, leaving me vulnerable to mobs when I cross the chunk.

More annoying is crashing on a chunk, leaving me dead when I log back in. That one happens pretty frequently still.

Also, sometimes I cross a chunk and have no control over my character and eventually she runs into a group of mobs.

I should add it only takes me like a second to cross a chunk normally, so it's not long loading times causing the problem.

I'll try to remember some others for you :)


Two suggestions... 1 get more ram, that improves chunking, 2 if you have a chance /flush before chunking.... yea I know these are a pain and the game is not woorking as intended, but this might help till they fix em.

[elektra]

Two suggestions... 1 get more ram, that improves chunking, 2 if you have a chance /flush before chunking.... yea I know these are a pain and the game is not woorking as intended, but this might help till they fix em.

I already pointed out that normally I chunk in about a second or under, I seriously doubt it is a RAM issue. I actually delevelled on a chunk a few weeks ago :)

Thanks for being trying to be helpful though :)

[Soluss]

They do that and I would quit. I am tolerating the ctds, and deaths, I am going with what is on offer currently and I can and will be patient till its sorted but they even think about nefting the solo exp again and I will quit.

It is so flustrating to die to a ctd, its hard to solo and it is a nightmare to group because of the ctds, I do not want to constantly appogise to a group because I droped yet again. So for now till its fixed I avoid grouping.

They mess with the exp and for me the game is no longer fun, but some dinosaur they trying to rezz.





Then why all the condescension and arrogance?


It was in direct reference to a post stating it was ok to change to suit casuals but it was not ok to keep the current system for the core.


Apparently the Devs disagree.


That is not apparent


Gee, it was advertised to meet my playstyle as well, and surprise! - Our playstyles differ. Amazing thing that different perceptions result in different expectations. :rolleyes:


Was it? Are you an ex EQ1 player that wants to play the game like EQ was up to velious? That was the main demographic they were going after..with SOME casual content and SOME raid content.



Nor does mine

[QUOTE]
No, you simply find another game and demand for it not to change to fit you because advertisements are undeniably true!


No in fact this is the FIRST MMO I have ever posted to about the game. I have never demanded anything from any game I have played. If I didnt like it, I moved along. The difference with this game and the other games is...I knew what I was getting with the other games and I knew what to expect the play to be like. This game was sold under false pretences. BIG DIFFERENCE.


And how many times have you lamented on these boards that this is not it?


It isnt...again it WAS ADVERTISED THAT IT WAS.


What you are referring to is the development hype - most everything the box stated (with exceptions) is in the game. If you are unable to distinguish between development hype and reality, it's not a matter of being lied to - it's a matter of perception.


Really so when brad post his sales pitch that the game is geared towards players that liked EQ 1 through velious and thats how this game was going to be (among other things)...Then those things are not true...its not being lied to? That is advertisement still.....the box is not the only advertisement. Later when I feel like it I will post you ALL the adverstisement that is not in this game. Oh yeah i know...in your world those are just exceptions right?


This isn't a car, it's a MMO - your analogy doesn't fly. When did they remove core mechanics? A death penalty still existed, even if you didn't think it was harsh enough. If they took death out altogether and you couldn't die, then you could argue they removed the mechanic.

The analogy flys just fine they are both products being sold to customers. Car being the main foundation and the raidio etc being the mechanics of the car. The analogy suits just fine. The death mechanic that is in place is a core adevertised mechanic..you dont need to completely remove death to remove the mechanic.

[Speaker]

Pump more quests out for players lvl 36+ please, this will help keep some of the current players that find themselves stuck after lvl 36. Finding groups is hard sometimes (not all the time), and when people can't find groups, and they are the adventure type, they will find a lack of things to do if they are over lvl 36 at the moment.

During the first month of launch, a lot of my friends never made it past the teen levels due to the bugs & exp changes. I think if they do come back now, you guys have pretty solid polish for newbie to mid-range content, and a nice leveling speed. But I find once again people are getting stuck during a certain level range now, this time it's after lvl 36, because their options are more limited, and most of the content available are all group content.

More quests to get players into their 40's will help, and of course raid will always attract guilds to this game =) I do think the proposed "summon" will really help when it comes to getting people to their groups, and at the same time, promoting people to actually do things while they are waiting for LFG. Right now a lot of people don't roam around too far from where they want to group at, because when they do get invited, they'll then have to spend a lot of time running.


I can never figure out why people want to level so fast when there is no "endgame" and they end up missing 85% of the game content. Even when raiding does comes into play, it will still represent only a small percentage of the game content.

[Xen]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Just to hit your points Elrar, I'm a 38 Disciple on Shidreth:

I don't think its overly hard to find a group, like most things, it depends. It depends on the time of day, and what I'm trying to find a group for. For example, its much easier to find a group to specifically camp the throne room in Vol Tuniel, than it is to find a group to specificly explore all the various side passages (which I still haven't been down).

When I do try and get a group, I'm usually the one to initiate it. I'll turn lfg on (but I've NEVER had someone I didn't already know send me a tell because of the lfg tag). More often than not I'll start in guild, and use whoever is interested to form the group's backbone - then fill in the pieces via regionsay. If I'm unable to get some guildies together groups rarely pan out, either because people end up getting sick of waiting for more, or because they'll see a more full group looking for 1 or 2 more and they'll ditch out. When searching for classes, more often than not I'll ask in regionsay a couple times, then search for who is LFG and start sending tells. More often than not the few (I need to stress few, people rarely seem to turn their lfg tag on) people who are LFG are either AFK, or are already in a group and forgot to toggle their tag off again.

Sometimes you can find someone with LFG on who actually wants to group, but usually it boils down to me sending tells to everyone in a particular class and level range until the spots are filled. Surprisingly it works, and people don't seem to mind. I've never had someone get angry, or upset because I asked them out of the blue if they wanted a group :p

Lastly, as a healer, preconceived notions GREATLY affect my ability to join a group. Far, FAR too often I'll see people looking for a healer and respond that they really meant cleric because that's "the only real healing class". Granted, more often than not I don't really want to join those groups, but regardless, having to argue and fight for my spot can get tiresome at times. Now, if I can get into a group people have no problem asking me back for future runs, but I feel that I need to fight tooth and claw sometimes. While this is probably out of your scope, people seem to have a huge misunderstanding about what the disciple class is like as a whole. I've been asked to seriously tank, dps, pull...pretty much everything other than heal and people seem offended when I need to explain my class to them. "Sure I could try to DPS...but you sure you don't want me to heal so we can pick up that bard too? No? Ok...". Buffs are also a HUGE issue, many times I have been brought into a group as a main healer, only to have another "healing class" added for their buffs - clerics and bear shamans especially.

Overall things aren't too bad - forcing LFG tags to toggle off when you join a group would be a good start ;) but the majority of my grouping woes are player-centric, and nothing a new UI or revamped interface could fix.

[taz]

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

I still think the "hard-core" types should have a "perma-death" initiated as if they die... they are dead. No reloading, no corpse runs, just dead. Thats truly hard-core 8)

[Cas]

There's a simple way to reward grouping immediately without changing too much(doesn't mean you can't improve things afterwards):

Increase the exp in dungeons. Soloers don't go there.

I am still baffled when I read these forums. You can not expect the world to be incredibly populated after 2 months and if you played EQ from the start, you'd know it was no different there.

Another important factor will be information about loot droppers and their locations through affiliate sites and various forums. In time more information about mob X dropping loot Y will be released and people will group up to "farm" them for their gear.

As long as Sigil keeps working on improving the game performance, I will be staying here forever.

[Soluss]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Usually no, but I am spoiled and have a guild of 100 people that 20 to 30 of them regularly log on everyday. However there were a few times that I went for an outside group. I used LFG, I used the channels, I tried to start one. Most of it failed. There is no enticement to group is why I think this is the case. The only time people group (outside of static/guild groups) is to get a certain quest done. Once people got their part done they usually leave. Too much is relied upon questing in this game. Dungeons are empty most of the time...there is no reward for doing them. Soloing by far is much more rewarding then grouping in both xp/loot and cash. Hardly any risk in soloing and equal or better rewards then grouping ...THAT is your primary problem. Secondary problem being the lack of people on servers and the fact that they are spread all over the place.

Ever heard of marketing hype? It was in his best interest at the time to say that to get a group of people really excited about the game and hopefully gain some word of mouth advertising. Unfortunately I believe it backfired on him.

Marketing hype is just a clever phrase you picked up from a previous poster....Marketing hype is a clever phrase used to make advertisement sound like its not advertisement. IOW they falsly advertised (and or lied about) this product to be primarily for a certain group while having SOME content for other groups....This is not the case in this product...Nice try though

Im sure you guys have already thought about this but here it is. If tombstones and what not are such a big problem of exploits and people summoning and what not. Just make graveyards like in PoP expansion in EQ. Problem solved ... you cant get back to your tombstone in 15 or 20 min then it pops at the alter done deal no dragging exploits ... keeps the risk factor with if you wipe you have to start over unless you get a quick CR. And those who dont like CR's just afk at the alter and boom ...they get there body back after a short spell problem solved.

Because people would still complain that they only have 1 hour to play and now they have to waste 20 minutes of it waiting on there tombstone.

If I remember correctly and a lot of people I know quit over the shared XP death mechanic in group. They got rid of that and I really believe that was a core mechanic of the game.

Ah, That must have been before I joined. Getting death penalty when you dont actually die though does not make sense.

I agree with that, but I'm not so sure as many people would play if they HAD to group to get decent XP and rewards. If you make soloing a poor relation, those who do like to solo, may just up and leave.

I think you missed the point. Lets assume solo xp is fine as it is (imo it is in your opinion it may not be but lets just say that it was fine in this theory) If they gave a bonus ON TOP of that if you were grouping...where is the problem? Solo players would not be getting the shaft for not grouping they would be getting what they are suppose to get. Grouped players would just get slightly more because they were getting a bonus (a reason to group) If solo xp is fine they dont HAVE to group to get decent xp...they would just get a bonus for doing so. See, you are still taking the mentality that a solo player should always get anything and everything a team of players get with less work. That is the problem.

[QforQ]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

I try to use the /lfg flag everytime I'm trying to find a group. Ontop of that I use the region channel to advertise my availability.

Part of the problem is(I think) players not utilizing the /lfg flag so then people can't find them when you are looking for players using the LFG tool. Perhaps it could be a bit more streamlined and maybe a bit more in your face so people realize what it is and how to use it?

Ontop of that there are problems with not enough players in areas to find a group.

[kcxiv]

I will come back if Sanjaya wins American Idol... Everyone vote for Sanjaya!

www.votefortheworst.com
YOu lose, for even watching it :(

[Khaunshar]

@Elrar:
Main problems are player-related problems. Not turning on LFG tags often makes it hard to find people (I am a group starter) when you dont follow the global chat, or just entered it recently. Players being uncommunicative or simply undecided about what they are looking for. Often, I announce "Group 3/6 lfm everything goes, we re going Sunset Pointe" since I am bloodmage, and usually have a tank-capable class (def fighter, ranger, drunken monk all tank perfectly well at 45) with me, and the answers I get are "42 cleric here, I ll join if we go jathreds", "I ll join" (without class, level or location) "Any light armor classes? dun wanna roll" (yes I had that 3 nights ago TWICE from different players) and my favorite "are there quests? can you share quests? whats the reward?" and when I answer yes, yes, no clue yet since its a chain, I never get a reply back.

Also a big issue lately are people with very limited time frames that dont announce it beforehand, or people that wordlessly leave after their part of a quest is done. This makes building reliable groups hard.

The 2 BIG issues that can be solved by design is a "LFM" option for groups, and a way to show quests and areas somehow in comments, like a checkbox system or so. If the questing focus has to stay in, at least make it easier to coordinate.

[Oogg]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

-First I place myself on lfg
-Second I type in regional chat(/1) lfg lvl and class
-Third I try to form a group myself

The biggest problem is travel. People are located all over the three continents and do not want to spend 40 mins traveling to the group.

[malachai]

I'd like if the good rewarded quests didn't require 30+ hours of killing the same mobs in the zame area in circles.

[Blitzburg]

YOu lose, for even watching it :(

Haha... If you don't like American Idol either, then do what I do... Vote for Sanjaya! Simon said he would stop making the show if Sanjay wins...

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/03/29/2007-03-29_simon_one_step_closer_to_door_as_sanjaya-1.html

[Fozzik]

Want to know what I think is a big problem with getting groups? Group quests.

I know that sounds crazy...but honestly, how many times have people refused to go get a group because the have a quest for X, Y, Z, and want the group to come help them instead of going to the group?

I see this kind of thing in chat all the time -

blah tells chat: "29 ranger lfg for [quest I personally am working on right now]"
bess tells chat: "30 Cleric looking for group for [quest I'm working on]"
dkje tells chat: "28 warrior need 3 more for [quest I'm working on right now]"
eow tells chat: "31 wizzy lfg!!"

And what's most funny about it is that the mechanic exists (at least I thought) to share quests. So it's not like stopping your personal goal and joining a group somewhere else would cause you to lose your progress or anything. It just really seems like people have their own agenda when they log in (which is normal), but group quests in their journal means that their agenda is extremely limited in scope.

I know one of my own problems with getting a group is not being versed enough in the lingo. I often see things like this in the chat -

bess tells chat: "grp lfm CiS part 2"

Well, that's great, except I have no clue at all what place that is, how far it is from me, what level range it is, or whether I would have to do part 1 before I could do part 2. Sure, I could ask... every time... only to find out that it's a completely different level range than me. But shouldn't there be a better way?

I think asking for suggestions is kind of silly. Sigil has already espoused an awesome idea to help with looking for group. The LFG tool which has been described by Sigil for quite some time...the complex one with lots of detail and match-making capabilities...would be a great help. Before we look for additional ways to improve things...why not get that working and in game?

[cshaw419]

anyone have the phone # for a good masochism hotline? :)

Yeah because the only things that are fun in life are what your opinions of fun are. Duh.

[Varna]

Well I love high pop servers, I love being able to find groups fast when I need to, and I love seeings lots of new faces and having chat channels moving. Compacting the servers in a way that keeps guildmates and friends together would be nice. Easier said than done I'm done sure.

Other than that getting more than 10 fps in a dungeon with settings completely bottomed out and sound off.

[Calren]

Something that doesn't seem to have been said just yet is that for grouping to be really rewarding (albeit depending on your personal preference) you really need to play with the same people on a regular basis. You need to be part of the community, usually by joining a guild.

While I enjoyed my time in VG as an unguilded player, when I eventually found a guild that caters to my playstyle and social preferences I started enjoying groups a lot more. Trying to find a PUG for whatever content is most popular in your area can be frustrating, but that's usually due to people dropping out, lack of communication or poor play.

The travel thing. I do think that players need a way to quickly summon other group members to them (on top of current dungeon summoning abilities), though time travel should definitely not be dumbed down to the extent that we're left with an EQ2 "bell" style system. I want to see the world I'm in, not feel like I'm porting from zone to zone. In my opinion the costs for horses higher than rank one should be lowered and perhaps horse speed increased across the board, this would make the pain of traveling a little less, when you think about the actual distances being covered, even your average horse (within this type of setting) would be able to cover a 2km pretty quickly (a chunk is 2km by 2km).

Personally I think community is a very important factor in all of this, as far as I can see the people have trouble with grouping aren't willing to start their own, or join a guild that groups a lot (I would think most do). Any decent guild will allow members to plan groups ahead (via forums or other such system), therefor travel is less of a pain, if you know when and where you should be.

Why I felt the need to register to say that, I have no idea.

[kcxiv]

I will come back if Sanjaya wins American Idol... Everyone vote for Sanjaya!

www.votefortheworst.com

Haha... If you don't like American Idol either, then do what I do... Vote for Sanjaya! Simon said he would stop making the show if Sanjay wins...

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/03/29/2007-03-29_simon_one_step_closer_to_door_as_sanjaya-1.html

Hell no, i Rather watch something else thats on. Rather watch Prison Break, or 24 then that crap.

[ikaoma420]

Marketing hype is just a clever phrase you picked up from a previous poster....Marketing hype is a clever phrase used to make advertisement sound like its not advertisement. IOW they falsly advertised (and or lied about) this product to be primarily for a certain group while having SOME content for other groups....This is not the case in this product...Nice try though


Actually we were both posting at the same time his just appeared before mine did. I know marketing hype when I hear it. I knew when Turbine made DDO and at the very beginning of development they sold the game to die hard pen and paper players it was nothing but marketing hype to generate word of mouth advertising. Think about when Brad said the EQ1 comment. He knew there was a good chunk of people that were not happy with how EQ1 was headed he told them (you) what they wanted to hear. In turn you got all jazzed and excited and prolly went out and told your friends. See that marketing. He even backed off on that statement later because he realized it was going to backfire on him. Started with the its for the "core" gamer line again I'm pretty sure that was just a way to hype the product more and in turn generate more word of mouth advertising.

[cshaw419]

Hell no, i Rather watch something else thats on. Rather watch Prison Break, or 24 then that crap.

Everything you see on TV is a product begging for your money. Shut up and BUY!!!!

[Drool]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

The lack of a useful group finding tool is what ultimately caused me to quit I feel. At lvl 22, my LFG was always ON, yet I never rec'd an invite. Granted, I played a Monk but still...

I also used the Regional chat channel often to say "22 Monk LFG" -- no reply. I was 22 for a week which is too long imo. So I just gave up.

We needed regional chat channels by level (ala EQ2) and a better LFG tool which sorts by Quests needed.

[Isobel]

The lack of a useful group finding tool is what ultimately caused me to quit I feel. At lvl 22, my LFG was always ON, yet I never rec'd an invite. Granted, I played a Monk but still...

I also used the Regional chat channel often to say "22 Monk LFG" -- no reply. I was 22 for a week which is too long imo. So I just gave up.

We needed regional chat channels by level (ala EQ2) and a better LFG tool which sorts by Quests needed.

How often did you LFM? That works far better.

[Diashansa]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

ELRAR!

I believe the problem people are having related to LFG is not in population of servers rather then the fact that the majority of customers in VG are from pre-made guilds or in a guild. I know for a fact that our guild has about 70 members and every one of them never LFG because we just lfg in guild channel or are in a static group like myself. I never LFG when my mates are not on I craft or Dipo. Its common knowledge in our guild that "Pickup" groups are something to be avoided and most members will go do missives over taking the nightmare that is a pickup group.

So what I am implying is that the above situation is repeated in alot of guilds and dwindles the potential LFG population. Spread the amount of starting areas, the amount of differnet levels and you find there is very limited chance of finding a group. The amount of new people playing the game or alts is less and less making low level toons find it even harder to find groups.

I think the game launched with too many starting areas and too spread out. I just started a Sham in Martok and I hardly see any people in the zone. I found a tank to help me do a quest he got his pieces and then degrouped leaving me unfishished on the quest we were doing. No other tanks were in the area, and none LFG.

What I reckon you need to do is bring out an game update/expansion. One that altars the starting areas to all be on say Kojan. Make Kojan the only level 1 - 25 content so you force everyone to be together and then make alot of teleporting features in this area. This way the new members that are now finding it hard will have plenty of people to group with with limited areas to explore. You could then re-hash all the current locations(Qalia and thestra) that are lowbie level with new items new encounters for end game content.

Something along these lines.

Dia

[sjb1]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

My opinion/experience

Finding a group isn't that hard, however it does depend somewhat on class. It’s easier to find enough people to form a new group than get a spot in an existing group. However, starting new groups takes a different interpersonal skill set.

It’s not unusual for me to be invited to a group that is 10+ minutes travel away. Boring travel across an unpopulated world. Heck I sometimes hit autorun, and go grab a drink; worst that can happen in a lot of places if you get stuck on the world objects, or get turned around 180 degrees while chunking. Hate it when I get invited to a group on a different continent, travel there, and 2 people have decided to log.

Crafting and Diplomacy are somewhat less accessible at groupage areas. Why can’t I grind diplomacy at the Renton Keep outpost for example? Crafting is getting better in this respect; I’d say no dungeon meeting spot should be less than 5 mins run from a crafting area.

Add a big obvious UI element that starts the LFG/LFM tool.

Add group exp bonus. If I am killing 2 dot even cons solo, and add one person to become a group of 2 killing the same mobs, my exp should increase. The general argument here is exp will go up due to faster kill rate, less downtime. However the reality is mob density tends to limit it. Ideally what you want is for a duo to quickly decide they can move onto 3 dotters and get even more exp

[RocSek]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Sorry if this has been said but...
My opinion on the LFG functions
I played DDO from early Alpha and for a while after. The best update they did to the LFG system was to add an option to make a group add it to the LFG panel select what classes they were looking for and level they wanted and then let those that fit the criteria auto join the group. People can also lfg/lfm based on the quest(s) they are on or want to do.

As for the questions posed above... I use the chat mostly unless I've formed the group then I try and use the social panel. I'm about 50/50 on LFG and starting one. And Last.. I normaly find a group or can get one going in about 30 min. depending on how far the group members are.

[Elrar]

I think asking for suggestions is kind of silly. Sigil has already espoused an awesome idea to help with looking for group. The LFG tool which has been described by Sigil for quite some time...the complex one with lots of detail and match-making capabilities...would be a great help. Before we look for additional ways to improve things...why not get that working and in game?

Not asking for suggestions at all, just want to see what the perception and personal feelings are about the looking for group experience. Pretty much everyone is in the same area and are the problems we intend to address.

The biggest change of all being enhanced features and availability of the LFG Tool. I think most will be pleased :)

[Isobel]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

One of the things that makes things difficult, from a game mechanics point of view, is the fact that no one is able to guage how long a prospective member may be onlie or how long they are willing to spend in travel. IT would make things a great deal easier if we had an LFG/LFM tool which was more specific. Something very like the current EQ tool so that we can find out easily time frame and goals of prspective group members.

http://everquest.station.sony.com/legacy/images/f_lfg_screen-group.jpg

[Fozzik]

Not asking for suggestions at all, just want to see what the perception and personal feelings are about the looking for group experience. Pretty much everyone is in the same area and are the problems we intend to address.

The biggest change of all being enhanced features and availability of the LFG Tool. I think most will be pleased :)

Well, hopefully the other stuff I posted besides that paragraph was somewhat useful. :p

[Ceyllynn]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?


unless i'm with my hubby.. who happens to be a diplo addict(which means he doesn't craft or adv much.. unless a double xp weekend lol to catch up to me).. all i ever do is solo with the occasional duo.

i have been invited to groups... but have never used LFG, being a shammie helps. i solo cause with my disability, i find hunting stuff for long periods is not something i can do and it usually requires hours for a full dungeon. wouldn't be fair to a group. soloing is just easier or with friends who already know, that i need breaks... taking a break in the middle of a dungeon is usually a bad thing lmao.

when i do group, it's because i am asked, or i am in an area soloing and ask those around me if they want to group. i warn them usually i cannot do it for too long, when i do.

i never use /shout or /1 etc to look for a group.. i personally find those that do annoying, so i don't do it. i am from a pure rpg game, so never been keen on the slang used anyhow so i usually tune out those that use it.

i also don't look for groups do to the mentality of the occasional player... you know the type... the one everyone hates to group with cause they swoop in and take everything, memememe type, usually like to pull too many mobs... etc... then leave when they cause the group to get wiped out. you always find out it's one of those type too late. i find it difficult enough as is with the bug deaths to regain exp at times i don't need someone else to help me die.

[Penth]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

I've never had a problem finding groups, and have always found the complaint that it's impossible to find groups somewhat bewildering. I either go to where I want to adventure, and group up with people there, or I put out the call on the regionsay that I am looking for more to do X, and invite the people who are looking for groups to join me. Usually I find a group within 10-15 minutes at most.

From my observation, most people have difficulties because they are unwilling to become the group leader. I'll see several people on regionsay all the time looking for groups, but none of them actually want to grab the other people, so they all remain looking for groups separately.

[sjb1]

most people have difficulties because they are unwilling to become the group leader.

whilst that is true, it's not something that is easy to change. any LFG mechanic needs to factor in the human aspect. the cold hard reality is that most people don't want to deal with the hassel of being the leader. systems that factor that in will do better than other systems imho.

edit: unfortunantly the only non leader system I can think of is WoW's meeting stones. and umm, yeah, bad example!

[ikaoma420]

Not that I have left but if I do leave the one thing that will bring me back is cookies.

And not just any cookies Toll house cookies.

[Paznos]

Want to know what I think is a big problem with getting groups? Group quests.

I know that sounds crazy...but honestly, how many times have people refused to go get a group because the have a quest for X, Y, Z, and want the group to come help them instead of going to the group?

I see this kind of thing in chat all the time -

blah tells chat: "29 ranger lfg for [quest I personally am working on right now]"
bess tells chat: "30 Cleric looking for group for [quest I'm working on]"
dkje tells chat: "28 warrior need 3 more for [quest I'm working on right now]"
eow tells chat: "31 wizzy lfg!!"

And what's most funny about it is that the mechanic exists (at least I thought) to share quests. So it's not like stopping your personal goal and joining a group somewhere else would cause you to lose your progress or anything. It just really seems like people have their own agenda when they log in (which is normal), but group quests in their journal means that their agenda is extremely limited in scope.

I know one of my own problems with getting a group is not being versed enough in the lingo. I often see things like this in the chat -

bess tells chat: "grp lfm CiS part 2"

Well, that's great, except I have no clue at all what place that is, how far it is from me, what level range it is, or whether I would have to do part 1 before I could do part 2. Sure, I could ask... every time... only to find out that it's a completely different level range than me. But shouldn't there be a better way?

I think asking for suggestions is kind of silly. Sigil has already espoused an awesome idea to help with looking for group. The LFG tool which has been described by Sigil for quite some time...the complex one with lots of detail and match-making capabilities...would be a great help. Before we look for additional ways to improve things...why not get that working and in game?

I agree everyone wants to complete their own thing and if they aren't on the same quest as me they don't want to bother helping, now if there were a % bonus to grouping or more of an incentive to help others I don't think this would be a problem.

[Kimi]

I doubt very much if I would ever come back.

Aside from all the issues already mentioned in the previous hundreds of posts, I just don't think I can take yet another fantasy game based on the same old tired elf/dwarf/animal headed characters that are already far too prevalent in games now.

If VG had been something truly different, instead of a theme-clone of eq/eq2 I might have considered it.

There are so many other possibilities out there for what "could have been", but instead Sigil chose to travel down the same olden well beaten path yet again.

So even if the game was as polished as EQ2, as varied as EQ1, and had no bugs I would probably not be interested in trying it again. I wish Sigil good luck, but this is just not my game.

I am looking for something different - not sure what - perhaps a more historically based game, or something set in a totally different era, but it sure is not yet another MUD/Tolkien clone. So for the time being, I continue to play EQ2 - what will probably get me to move on is not VG nor another game like VG, but some game with a totally different theme, be it SF, Ancient Rome, Cavemen in Space, or whatever.

[niack]

" I canceled 2 days ago. This world feels dead to me, I don't feel I belong there.

What is missing ? LIFE + LORE = SOUL.

I will come back as soon as Sigil gives a soul to this world and its lifeless cities:

- animate the cities
- add lore with a purpose (i.ex: history books scattered around the world -> book collections, what is this world, what am I doing here, what do I want to achieve ?, etc...) (yes there is diplomacy, but the diplomacy lore is only small parts here and there, nothing substantial)
- animate the world, give the npcs a life, birds & butterflies, populate water, etc...

Bonuses (less important but a big plus):
- anti-aliasing
- water reflexions
- fix the broken shadows (there are no shadows on walls, objects, etc...)


Edit : STOP wasting time on minor things and stuff that already works (i.ex: like the death penalty) and GET TO THE MEAT -> make this world a place we want to be in. (yes bugs are always a first priority). "




Best post of the lot.....I pretty much feel the same way....In EQ I felt very much a part of the world right fro mthe get go...I remember that first orc that killed me and how pissed I was....THe world seemed so alive and vibrant.....Vg just seems dull and lifeless.....It feels too much like a WoW questfest and not enough lore in the beginning....I never felt a part of VGs world either.....In EQ I feared places like the Feerot, Nektulos forest, unrest, and many other places.....In Vg I never felt fear just fear that I was gonna crash in a bad place or die due to a bug..... I did not want another EQ but I did want a world that was vibrant and enjoyable like it was....Maybe that is too much to ask.

[Rakitavi]

how about we camp the Vex Thal shards all over again? haha. I never EVER wanna do ANYTHING like that ever again.

Well... at the time I really hated getting my VT key. The camps, the waiting, the time spent, just to get into some new stupid zone. My guild suspended all raiding for an entire month and everyone went all out to get our keys. I hated not raiding and resented having to camp all those shards.

But now, looking back on that time I spent, it was one of the most memorable times of any I spent in EQ. That and getting keyed for Emp Ssra. That time spent, all those hours, we bonded. REALLY bonded. It brought us together even more as a guild. We fought, we shared, we helped each other, we really, REALLY HELPED each other. And at the end of that month almost every one of us had our VT keys and we all went in as a guild, a different, stronger guild. And we began learning how to negotiate one of my my favorite zones in EQ. A zone I got a lot of extremely good gear out of.

Getting those shards, spending that month in groups at shard camps with my fellow guildies... it was worth every minute and I now look back fondly on that time. THOSE were the days.

EQ was one damned good game. You loved it. You hated it. Passionately. And you played. You couldn't STOP playing it. It made you.

That's what I want Vanguard to be. Can it? Can Brad do it again?

[Lanceli]

@Elrar:
Main problems are player-related problems.



Khaunshar hit it on the head.

1) Fix your UI where chat channel is default center screen and a bigger font so people in groups can read it easier since alot of the player made custom UI's are buggy and people are forced to use your's which has issues like the pet buttons laying on top of hotkeys or reactionaries falling on top of the available left hotbars. Needs work as most will be using it .

2) Fix your chat UI where if you unclick a chat channel it does not autoinvite you back inside it on every log in.

3) Adding a DDO's in game voice chat to deal with the additional cooridination required to play harder content would be ideal but knowing that's probobly too hard to do at this point how about better tutorial hint popups? I say this because it seems alot of content is balanced with the assumption people will read their ability descriptions and adjust their play to be more effective but this is not the case and as such people wipe more than is good for the delicate group morale that is needed when 6 strangers join a PUG.

Maybe even a "How to play your class" video at character creation vs. the somewhat clumsy tutorial popups that I assume most do not read?

4) Disable the ability to link items in general chat. It adds to the spam and spam makes people tune out to the chat and since teh content is challenging communication is rather important.

5) How about when a person clicks accept to a group invite you automaticlly remove them from all other chat chanels so they by default pay more mind to chat. Let them rejoin to otehr chats manually rather than them needing to leave chats manually to be able to focus on a group chat better.

6) You need to force people to not type LFM or LFG in general chat. Not because this bothers me but you need to force people to use the LFG tool. People know they can just wait for someone to announce in general if they are looking for more and dont give your LFG system any consideration.

The idea mentioned , again by Khaunshar I believe, where by you can list groups by quest on or by specific quest location so one could easily find the group he wants would definatly help grouping . Maybe a dropdwon menu so a group leader can select teh quest he is doing from his available ones? And then the search database lists these is some window with soem option from the LFG client?

7) How about teleporters between the lowbie areas vs. from main cities. Shrink your world so people can group easier. There are too many starter areas and too many barriers for people to travel between them. If some starter area, for whatever reason, is deemed more desirable then let lowbies get there somehow so they can all be together and start grouping. They need to be able to practice their grouping skills and hone them if they are to have a chance vs the content you have designed as early as possible.

8) Fix the loot bug and fix the looting options. You need a loot option to auto-split coin, to be able to roll for good drops and round robin for sellable trash since money making is low and grouping nets you less money for the time invested all at the same time. An exclusive option vs. sacrificing money to teh person that is tanking or the person that can click the fastest. Round robin and rolling combined.

9) Expand the Healer-type calling ability. It only works in some dungeons.. why not all of them. Why not up the range. Caster types already have the group gate to altar spell to alleveiate travel .. how unbalancing could increased call range be if this already exists.

10) Fix the bug where people grouped in different chunks cant see each other and cant invite each other.

11) Look into combining some of the general chats and making them possibly one per continent vs. the current system of a few per continent so when a noob asks a question you guys can cash in on folsk that like to help more readily . Then you have a whoel continet of population learning from each other and becoming better players and as such enjoying teh game more fully.

12) Combine the Brokers/banks per continent . Ideally one bank and one broker area would be best so people are forced to meet up with each other and as such socialize and mayeb even make groups. I understand there must be technical limitations to 500 peopel all being in teh same chunk with heavy graphics and all but your need to induce easier group play, with the type of content you have designed, is starting to seem urgent.

13) Increase the level range where grouping is viable.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I think it's appropriate to add that your idea to remove the death penalty is 100% on the right path. You have issues with people becoming apathetic to the game and most of that is not neccesarily stemming from the bugs but rather this notion that there is not enough content. There is tons of content but alot of it is locked away from a majority of the players because it's balanced hard and people dont know how to play their classes.

The death penalty only adds to this exclusivity of content because people dont want to die since there is a low xp curve. People simply choose to ignore much of teh best content in game . The stuff that you all probobly worked real hard and long on and were probobly banking would make this game be more successful than it currently is.

Removing the death penalty may make it low risk enough where people will experiance more content. Of coarse it could cause the other effect as well , whereby peopel solo more since death means nothing and you can take a chance to finish some dungeon alone.

The people against removing/nerfing the penalty dont realise that they need other players to make the game fun as much as you all need more peopel to make it profitable. It's a crap situation with alot of opiniated people that I'd even stretch to say dont know their own good.

Maybe just remove teh death penalty to level 30 and let it come back after that so people start grouping.. finish better content and hopefully keep playing once they are vested in their toon while at the same time keeping difficulty up for the last 20 levels.

And if the uproar is so much where you cant remove it start thinking about reducing mob aggro range low level... reducing their damage .. anything basiclly to keep people from dying as much. You have to nerf somewhere low level so people group, experiance the content, get vested in their toon and stay.

The upping the experiance rate wasnt enough. People arent completly motivated by their success to gain a level. They are alos motivated that they faced some content that should be challeneging and conquered it. Who's to know the only reason they beat it and didnt die is because you all nerfed it? ;)

[Pherillion]

That is not apparent

Then why are they tinkering with it?



Was it? Are you an ex EQ1 player that wants to play the game like EQ was up to velious? That was the main demographic they were going after..with SOME casual content and SOME raid content.

Yep ex EQ'er myself, played from late 99 till 02. It was one of the demographics they were marketing to, not the main or the only. You're approaching perceptive differences again - they never said mechanics identical to Velious, they said a similar feel. Please show me where they said anything about mechanics. You read the info and put your own personal ideals on it, whether it was reality or not - thats good marketing.




No in fact this is the FIRST MMO I have ever posted to about the game. I have never demanded anything from any game I have played. If I didnt like it, I moved along. The difference with this game and the other games is...I knew what I was getting with the other games and I knew what to expect the play to be like. This game was sold under false pretences. BIG DIFFERENCE.

There is no difference between this and any othe MMORPG fundamentally. The mechanics are all similar. How is it that these "other" games managed to present themselves to you and meet your expectations? You say this not the game you expected, I say it is the game I expected. How is this possible if the devs lied and the game was sold under false pretenses?



It isnt...again it WAS ADVERTISED THAT IT WAS.

Maybe it is simply your perception and expectations that are off. I got the game that was advertised.



Really so when brad post his sales pitch that the game is geared towards players that liked EQ 1 through velious and thats how this game was going to be (among other things)...Then those things are not true...its not being lied to? That is advertisement still.....the box is not the only advertisement. Later when I feel like it I will post you ALL the adverstisement that is not in this game. Oh yeah i know...in your world those are just exceptions right?

And he never said anything specific about mechanics. Again I think it is similar to what he equated it to. I'm simply trying to point out that your expectation of what the game was supposed to be and what I expected the game to be are two different things - but yet we read the same materials, got the same "advertisements" so to speak. You read it as a "mechanics are identical to old EQ" and I read it as "the game and world, design and lore are similar". It's a difference of perception.


The analogy flys just fine they are both products being sold to customers. Car being the main foundation and the raidio etc being the mechanics of the car. The analogy suits just fine. The death mechanic that is in place is a core adevertised mechanic..you dont need to completely remove death to remove the mechanic.

No, the only way it works is if they sold you a car under the pretenses of "It's like that old muscle car you used to own, got a big engine a smokin' paint job and a badass stereo." Except you come to find out it is similar to the old muscle car style, the big engine is now a turbo V6, the paint job is decent but sky blue isn't quite your favorite color and the stereo even though it pumps out 500w has no CD player. Your vision of what was advertised did not meet reality. Did they lie? No. They told it as they saw it in order to entice you into buying, in all non specific terms. You didn't verify the specifics before you signed on the dotted line and handed over your cash? Caveat emptor buddy. MMO's do change over time and whether you agree with the changes or not are irrelevant. You can freely have an opinion though.

Actually we were both posting at the same time his just appeared before mine did. I know marketing hype when I hear it. I knew when Turbine made DDO and at the very beginning of development they sold the game to die hard pen and paper players it was nothing but marketing hype to generate word of mouth advertising. Think about when Brad said the EQ1 comment. He knew there was a good chunk of people that were not happy with how EQ1 was headed he told them (you) what they wanted to hear. In turn you got all jazzed and excited and prolly went out and told your friends. See that marketing. He even backed off on that statement later because he realized it was going to backfire on him. Started with the its for the "core" gamer line again I'm pretty sure that was just a way to hype the product more and in turn generate more word of mouth advertising.

Very well stated, and I agree.

[Shawnsan]

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

No they separate the people that have lives outside of gaming from those that DO NOT ..

:o

[Candystore]

No they separate the people that have lives outside of gaming from those that DO NOT ..

:o

owned

[Isobel]

Then why are they tinkering with it?


To make up for CS and communication problems rather than addressing the actual problems.

[Pherillion]

To make up for CS and communication problems rather than addressing the actual problems.

The question wasn't addressed to you, but I'll bite :D

Previously you have said you don't believe what the devs say. Now you do because it fits your particular argument? :rolleyes:

So to follow that line of thought, since they are now removing it from test and it doesn't look like it's going live, that obviously means they have great CS and no communications problems to address right? :p

[Dorfeater]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Well.. I'm already in this game for the long haul and don't plan on going anywhere.

But...I'll put in my 2cp..

Personally, I have a static group with a few friends, but at times when they aren't on or what have you, I find it pretty hard to find a group.

Most of my "group" issues are with Travel and the amount of time it takes to actually get to your group. Some other issues I've had though is:

-The lack of quests that make delving into a dungeon actually worth taking a PUG down into a dungeon. (At least from a lower level aspect, as I'm not post-30 yet)

-The lack of loot that alot of people seem to be finding better items through crafting / questing than drops... so it really makes people see the dungeon as "not worth doing"

- Dungeon's, IMO, lack overall direction... so when you take a group down there just to "explore", it's hard to find the purpose of the dungeon (if you have no quests... etc) this makes the dungeon's dull a little. Maybe have more named/bosses, and an overall "goal" of the dungeon.

- Grouping seems like it's the same XP rate as Soloing... give a bonus for Grouping, and a small bonus to adventuring in dungeons. Make grouping worth more than Soloing, and more players will group.

Other than that, I really have no problems with the grouping or LFG system, I think most of the reasons players can't find groups is the player's fault. I can't even count how many times I've seen 6 people spamming LFG, but nobody has the brain to just invited everyone.

One thing that I can say I wouldn't like to see is an auto-invite system, much like WoW has... this takes away alot of player sociability, and me personally, I hate blind invites, so getting thrown into a group is even worse. Theres nothing worse than being throw into a group,... and the entire 2 hours you're grouped, nobody says anything.

Keep up the good work Sigil.

EDIT: I didn't read anyone else's post besides Elrar's... so sorry if something I said had already been mentioned. I've decided not to post much anymore because these boards are just a firefight now. Plus I'm spending the majority of my time in game o.0

[linkmaster]

8) Fix the loot bug and fix the looting options. You need a loot option to auto-split coin, to be able to roll for good drops and round robin for sellable trash since money making is low and grouping nets you less money for the time invested all at the same time. An exclusive option vs. sacrificing money to teh person that is tanking or the person that can click the fastest. Round robin and rolling combined.


This is already here...split coin and split loot ,random on magical and set the filter to blue items.

[Twoofus]

Haha... If you don't like American Idol either, then do what I do... Vote for Sanjaya! Simon said he would stop making the show if Sanjay wins...

Could you stop spamming your crap?
If you don't like a show, don't watch it.
Feeling the urge to have to ruin it for everyone that does like it, tells everyone here what kinda sad person you really are.

[Twoofus]

I don't mind the death penalty, but I do mind having to eat corpses because of game bugs.

The chunking and dying bug:
=====================
I wouldn't mind having an option under settings, that toggles OFF autorun everytime I chunk. I have to wait for others in the group to chunk normally anyways, and everyone chunks at different speeds.
This option would remove A LOT of all the chunking deaths.

The instant repopping of all mobs.
=========================
What exactly is this, is this a game feature, zone zetting, bug? What is it?
Normally you would assume mobs are on a respawn timer, so if you kill them from left to right, they will repop with the same interval you killed them on from left to right. Maybe the instant repopping is done to prevent holding camps?
Would be nice to know :)

Anyways, for small groups trying to do some dungeoning, this is a killer feature. You are plowing slowly into a dungeon, BAM, instant repops of all mobs you cleared so far. Including the one you just killed 1 second before your pull.

Corpse summoning
==============
I think some classes (necros) should have the ability to summon a players corpse to them. This could use coffins (like in EQ) or something like that.
This would allow people to summon their corpse using another player.

Falling thru the World
================
There must be a way to tell on a players character if they are falling thru the world or not. If they ARE falling thru the world, then the /rope command should ignore the Z-Axis and widen the X-Y axis to allow for a succesfull /rope. This would not help solo people, but it would help groups in dungeons etc.
Calling someone to your group should also ALWAYS work if a person is falling thru the world.

Just some ideas :)

[Lanceli]

This is already here...split coin and split loot ,random on magical and set the filter to blue items.


Really? They changed it? I'll check tommrrow.. going to bed now :D

[kcxiv]

This game needs some kind of a GM event of something. Not talking about double exp either. What/ i dont know, i am sure people can think of something cool. Do some kind of world event, or something.

And for gods sake i need some level 40 plus quests. I havent had the time the past few days to run a dungeon crawl. So i get a little free time i want to be able to duo something for an hour or 2 at least.

[Isobel]

The question wasn't addressed to you, but I'll bite :D

Previously you have said you don't believe what the devs say. Now you do because it fits your particular argument? :rolleyes:

So to follow that line of thought, since they are now removing it from test and it doesn't look like it's going live, that obviously means they have great CS and no communications problems to address right? :p

In that you claim to have read the things i have been posting i would have though you would have understood the point of the post you quoted. In that you didn't i'll give you a hint. Sarcasm. Look into it.

[Twoofus]

Oh one more thing.

Could we get some dev responses in the quest forums please?
A lot of people are encountering bugged quests, and it would be nice to see a dev response in there now and then.

I know /bugging it will ensure it gets read (we hope), but some feedback is already a big reward for most people trying to iron out the rough corners here and there.

[Pherillion]

In that you claim to have read the things i have been posting i would have though you would have understood the point of the post you quoted. In that you didn't i'll give you a hint. Sarcasm. Look into it.

You change positions so much it's hard to tell. Believeability. Look into it.

[Edrick]

If they merge servers so there are over 3000 people playing or so, and if they add some actual spirit and lore into the game I'll reactivate my account. I don't hate Vanguard at all, but it isn't fun to play in a ghost town.

[Isobel]

You change positions so much it's hard to tell. Believeability. Look into it.

Change my postion? That's only true if you count repetition as change. In fact every time they change the game to ,ake it easier i say pretty much the same thing. Stop doing that. Keep things hard.

[Isobel]

If they merge servers so there are over 3000 people playing or so, and if they add some actual spirit and lore into the game I'll reactivate my account. I don't hate Vanguard at all, but it isn't fun to play in a ghost town.

If they impliment various ruleset servers, as they have mentioned might happen, they will pretty much have to. I'm no fan of server mergers or seperate ruleset servers but it may be the only viable solution.

[Luren]

and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

I think the reason its hard to get a group going, or join an existing group, is the fact that too many class's trivialise group content, and can consistently, and effectively, solo it.

When you have class's out there that can consistently solo three and four dot MOBs, of equal level and above, there is no need for them to group, which reduces the number of people/class's looking for group.

[bronstahd]

The instant repopping of all mobs.
=========================
What exactly is this, is this a game feature, zone zetting, bug? What is it?
Normally you would assume mobs are on a respawn timer, so if you kill them from left to right, they will repop with the same interval you killed them on from left to right. Maybe the instant repopping is done to prevent holding camps?
Would be nice to know :)

Anyways, for small groups trying to do some dungeoning, this is a killer feature. You are plowing slowly into a dungeon, BAM, instant repops of all mobs you cleared so far. Including the one you just killed 1 second before your pull.


I would guess that, unless this is in fact due to a chunk reset, this could be fixed pretty easily. I'll be glad to do it myself if you PM me with specific information (i.e. at least 1, and hopefully more, of the NPCs names - exactly as it appears in game). Sparing a lengthy monologue, the data is very old and needs to be updated. :(

[Zogy]

The so called "hardcore" shed more tears over the proposed change on test than the "casuals" ever have. The amount of whining and "I'm gonna quit!" posts was outrageous. Yeah, you guys sure are "hardcore". I'll keep a box of tissues handy for you "hardcores" in the future, because the game isn't done changing yet. :D

You just keep keepin' on with your bad self and your superiority complex, I'll be over here with the tissues, waiting for you when the next changes go to test . :p

Maybe quitting the game over the death issue is a bit cynical. But everyone is titled to their opinion about the game itself. However, the "hardcore" "casual" label that you refer to on death system majority have been trying get their message across. Soluss (so did Isobel and lots of people including me), already explain in point form. Rethink what you are contributing in the post rather then trying to stair up more distance between "hardcore" "casuals". Fix the bugs not the system it self for now. That’s what should be read into. Not the war between “hardcore and casuals”



1. you can use an alter and take an xp and durability hit but get your gear
2. you can run naked to get your corpse and suffer almost no loss
3. you can soulbind your gear and make the run with armor...suffering almost no xp loss and making it a pretty easy return with full armor.
4. you can put backup gear in a saddlebag and use that for the corpse run...suffering almost no xpo loss and you can still trade your armor

If you chose not to soul bind thats your fault. If you chose not to have backup armor thats your fault. If you chose the xpo hit thats your fault. You died in the first place (barring bug fixes) thats your fault and suffer the consequences.

Trust me this death penalty is weak to begin with...I went into a death frenzy and took a 40% debt hit in river velley trying to get my corpse at level 25...It took me all of 1 hour to do 2 quests to get back in the positive.

I did that last night in RV, oboy that place is harsh lol i problly have like 10 death trying to pick up my original corpse with most of my eqiupment on it. I have yet to log on and pick it up. But you know what? I feel CR makes you to learn the zone/mobs well. Just my thoughts.

[Fuz]

Ok, well these are mainly on chunks.

Minor ones are like where I lose my pet, leaving me vulnerable to mobs when I cross the chunk.

More annoying is crashing on a chunk, leaving me dead when I log back in. That one happens pretty frequently still.

Also, sometimes I cross a chunk and have no control over my character and eventually she runs into a group of mobs.

I should add it only takes me like a second to cross a chunk normally, so it's not long loading times causing the problem.

I'll try to remember some others for you :)

Generally speaking, crossing chunk borders is fairly smooth. Approaching a large outpost can be signifcantly less smooth due to load hitching.

* Crashing on chunk rarely or never happened to me, unless I had travelled a _lot_ crossing many chunks. By experience, I chose to restart if I have done serious travelling. It has become a lot better since beta 5, but there are still leaks serious enough to cause you to eventually run out of memory.

* Crossing chunk border and "losing control" - that happens often and it is not random but consistant for the specific borders. I must admit I don't always take time to /bug that.

Typical scenarios that I see frequently:
- Your 3rd person view pops into 1st person view
- Your direction of running changes by 90 or 180 degreees
- The loss of cloudwalk (levitation) bug is back

IMO, it should not take a QA person too long to systematically check chunk borders for these issues (remember to check in both directions).

[Fuz]

No, it means more people will take the path that provides the best rewards - which is pretty much a no brainer. If grouping was more rewarding, people would group. If soloing was more rewarding, people would solo.

Path of least resistance and all that. It says nothing about what a person's preference is.

Personally (which I have repeated often on this board), I prefer grouping over soloing. It is more fun, faster exp, and give you access to very hard to get rewards. If those rewards somehow was to be made accessible to solo players - you could just as well have the quest NPC hand out the rewards directly. "You managed to find me, here is your Legendary item."

With a group, you can go into really annoying and dangerous places like the Nusibe Necropolis (aka the church of really evil debuffs and group aggro) and get wiped.

If you get wiped, you just work your way back in - a little more careful - and by the time you have retrieved your stones, you already have compensated your exp loss and gone several percent past it as well.

Grouped with full party for about 6 hours yesterday (in necropolis and elsewhere) and gained 30% exp at level 47 - even after 3-4 deaths.

However - grouping takes effort. The effort to tolerate waiting, learning to cooperate and develop a strategy, learning to trust and share, and learning not to be greedy. That is the hard part - overcome that - and you will find no better way to level and get to the good rewards.

[Puffy]

I must admit I don't always take time to /bug that.




I stopped bugging after i saw Elrar's post about how bug reports are always incomplete and lack important information like Loc, Npc name etc.

Apparently, they are too dense to realize the importance of including user loc's/ chunk/ and other important information in the bug report UI.

[Elrar]

I stopped bugging after i saw Elrar's post about how bug reports are always incomplete and lack important information like Loc, Npc name etc.

Apparently, they are too dense to realize the importance of including user loc's/ chunk/ and other important information in the bug report UI.

Actually this information is recorded, however, I said we encourage you to be as thorough as possible in the case that you are reporting a bug from a location different than where you are presently standing.

Sorry for any miscommunication :)

[Fuz]

I stopped bugging after i saw Elrar's post about how bug reports are always incomplete and lack important information like Loc, Npc name etc.

Apparently, they are too dense to realize the importance of including user loc's/ chunk/ and other important information in the bug report UI.

It wouldn't hurt if the /bug and /petions dialogs had a few buttons to paste in f.x.
- Server, Name, level, class, race (Edit: apparantly not needed)
- Current player location (chunk and coordinates)
- Targeted NPC/mob (name and location)
- Targeted player (name, location, and off. target?)
- Current selected quest in quest list
- Item links

[Tanaril]

I stopped bugging after i saw Elrar's post about how bug reports are always incomplete and lack important information like Loc, Npc name etc.

Apparently, they are too dense to realize the importance of including user loc's/ chunk/ and other important information in the bug report UI.Actually this information is recorded, however, I said we encourage you to be as thorough as possible in the case that you are reporting a bug from a location different than where you are presently standing.

Sorry for any miscommunication :)


lol, owned

[Sithero]

what change from challenging to easy.. i've expirienced no difficulty change in the game and i've been playing since beta 4

/concur

just more VG bashing that serves no beneficial purpose

[Istaira]

- The loss of cloudwalk (levitation) bug is back



And that one is the worse bug of all for me. I have buged this one till I am blue in the face.

The other day, I was on necro, had wraith form up, was runing over to the exchange in Bernaid hills, I crashed just as I chunked in from Foulwood, I came back and was falling, as I entered. The way Wraith form is set up, if you log, or crash, when you get back in, you have to switch back to normal form, then to wraith form. Well I died before I could excute both of them. Because even if you log with wraith, when you come back you still have the icon on, but not the benfits from it.

I even had the 3 min, invunerbilty sheild up they give on a crash, but it does not protect you from falling, if you was crossing an hill at the time of the crash.

I have also died this same way, from runing, as I crashed to come back in the middle of knowhere, and be falling from a cliff again. Shame there is no auto stop the minute you crash. :confused:

[Durendal]

EQ2 didnt remove any core mechanics as far as I can tell.

I offer LUs 13 and 29/30 (I forget which of them was the newer "combat revamp") as evidence to the contrary.

[Vauhs]

IF you make ducks a playable race, I MIGHT think about coming back. They goto be able to equip greataxes and num-chucks!

Quak Quak... I'm a duck!!!

[Penth]

The instant repopping of all mobs.
=========================
What exactly is this, is this a game feature, zone zetting, bug? What is it?
Normally you would assume mobs are on a respawn timer, so if you kill them from left to right, they will repop with the same interval you killed them on from left to right. Maybe the instant repopping is done to prevent holding camps?
Would be nice to know :)

Anyways, for small groups trying to do some dungeoning, this is a killer feature. You are plowing slowly into a dungeon, BAM, instant repops of all mobs you cleared so far. Including the one you just killed 1 second before your pull.



I've encountered this, and we've pretty much figured out what causes it. Everytime I've encountered it when in a dungeon, it is caused by another group entering the dungeon and starting to kill behind you. This seems to screw with the respawn timers.

[Soluss]

I offer LUs 13 and 29/30 (I forget which of them was the newer "combat revamp") as evidence to the contrary.

Really...what did they REMOVE..dunno about lu13 as I started playing as LU13 hit...lol 29/30 they changed how mitigations works they didnt remove it.

[nuandy]

I must not have played it before hand...I started about 6 months after release. As far as I knew death was also a debt hit and nothing more. But hey if having xpo debt without the corpse run is good enough for you...you can already have it...its called an alter.

It was well over a year after release when they dropped the leaving of a spirit shard when you die and untill you recovered your shard you would recive a % drop in all you stats as well as xp debt and the only way to get it back was to go get it or wait 72 hours for it to return i think the most shard you could have missing at one time was 3

I dont think the core of the game has been changed at all the biggest change was the combat revamp to balance classes for PvP a year after rlease

Now tradeskill is a differant kettle of fish the totle change the core game in that taking out syb cimbines

It has been dumbed down a lot but also so great inprovements

i will return to VG when its fun ill look in every now and agin as i still do to see if it is heading in the right direction the basics are there for the game i just needs to be finished and i am not paying to beta test a game

[nuandy]

I offer LUs 13 and 29/30 (I forget which of them was the newer "combat revamp") as evidence to the contrary.

the only combat revamp was LU 13 at DoF release and that was for the addition of PvP to the game so i would say it was adding rather than removing

[Fingis]

When you get your tombstone back you get all of your XP back.

It's not much of a change then.

Now, if you get your tombstone back, you get like 99% of your xps.

It was when you rezzed at an altar you got screwed.

[Shandor]

Wow alot responce here.

Well it seems there are alot different peoples quiting VG for alot different reasons.

First i was very impressed on VG. but after some while i noticed i always have to defend VG from my Wife because there where many things she dont like. Well and as longer i was thinking about, why im defending VG, asmore i realized she is right.
First thing was questing. Its nothing really wrong with Quests. But if there are so much Quests you always feel wrong to kill a mob without getting a Quest Update from killing it. My personal biggest problem with Quests all over is: You have a very hard time get a group runing outside Dungeons. Everyone has another Quest and even if you find 4 or 5 others on the same Quest, the group splits after one Quest because everyone wants to do another Quest. One already made it, one dont got the Faction and another dont gets anything good for his Class.
So in my Opinion mass Questing = anti Grouping.

The next thing was simplyfying (i hope thats correct) the game. You can say what you want. But VG is now much easyer as it was Planned. Its not even that you dont loose anything if you Die (Yes you loose exp, but you need a Microscope to realize that), its more the way how easy the game is now after a couple of Changes. Now you can solo all the way absolute Easy and Faster as every group. The Crafting and Diplomancy group and Raid Vision is far far away. Solo content is fine and i could really live with the 20/60/20 solo/group/raid version Sigil has planed once. But i dont like the 90/20/0 version what it is now.
Well another part is how Fast the Exp gain is now. Yah i can already hear the "Go to EQ! you Hardcore looser without a live" -peoples :)
But im a father of 3 Kids with a good job and i could play 2 - 4 hours a day and that is not EVERY day. And i dont care if i need 1 year to reach max level as long its fun to play the game. If i want a Race to the Goal i would play Need for speed. I think if you level slower you build up a better contact to the Char. you playing. You play better because you know your Char. better. (im really sick of those Max level Warriors dont even know what Taunt is) And the char. turns from "Just another Toon" to a "Character who is important for you"
I never made it to delete my EQ1 Char. But my Wow char. was deleted in 1 secound without any doubt. I just didnt care if he was gone. To level him up and get some PvP or Raid gear is a matter of 1 or 2 month.

Well and the last thing made me Quit VG was the missing of downtime. Well as i played EQ1 i really did not like the downtime. Its good for nothing right ? No thats wrong. Now that i know MMOPRGs without any downtime i realized its important. Why ? Simple: The comunity dont builds up if you dont talk to them. And if you dont have downtime you have to time to talk, no time to make some fun, you dont even got time to run to toilett most times. Its like an endless rush. GRoup up with some strangers enter a Dungeon and kill everything to the boss and kill him too. You split the group and run to the next thing you do. You dont even know the peoples you just grouped with and you dont care for those strange peoples. Thats why Wow has so much loot stealing and pissed off peoples in Instances with random group. Maybe thats just my experience. But in every single Random group i got in Wow i had one of these things happen. You would not steal a friends loot or kick him out of the group because he did a bad pull. With Strangers peoples do.

Well i caould live with the mass questing, i could live with the low death penalty, i could live with an easy game (for a shorter wile i could live with a Hard game) maybe i could live with the missing downtime too. But all thogether is to much for me.

Right now it seems to me (i could be wrong of course) Sigil is scaring away the most oldschool players they where aiming at first time. And hope getting "newer" players (Well lets say it: Wow players.) but i think that will not work very much. Those players like Wow because its what they want. And those are bored of Wow will leave VG if LotRO or Warhammer comes anyways i believe. Warhammer because of the PvP part they missing in VG. and LotR because its colorful and nice like Wow is.

I dont want another EQ1, EQ1 its there and there is no need of another i think. But Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima online, Horizons and Meridian was nice too. I was just dreaming of another game in that Game faction. And not another online Diablo2.

Shandor

PS: Well, you can keep the "Go back to EQ!" for yourselve. Because i already waiting of the anniversary EQ edition to play it again :)

[everlastn]

Going to start this out saying I thought all the WoW kiddies stayed in WoW, but I guess I was wrong.

More whining on this board than I've heard in YEARS in EQ. You have the 'Hardcore Gamers' wanting harsh exp penalties, long travel times, grinding levels, etc. Then you have the casual gamers who love the ideas of little to no exp penalty, transporters to cut down travel times, and faster exp.

How can Sigil win here ? By far, the casual gamers are gonna out number the hardcore gamers by a significant margin, so if they want to tailor a game that will turn a profit, what direction do you think they will head ? Logical decision.

Look at WoW, financially successful and by far the biggest MMO out there today, and you know how easy the gameplay is there.

When I started hearing about VG, I was excited the person who made EQ1 the most fun game at that time, Brad, was heading this game. Wow, I was stoked. Velious, one of the best expansions of all time, this guy couldn't go wrong.

However, when I logged in and had my first combat, EQ2 and WoW came to mind. The combat is a MIMIC of the 2 games, not the combat animations, but the layout and function of attacks, etc. Spell and Melee chains just like EQ2 introduced. I hated it.

But I gave it time. Leveled to 20 and just lost intrest. Lack of content ? Hell no, the world is huge, there are tons of quests, lots of places to level.

But there's something missing in VG. I, as well as maybe a lot of others, was waiting for that feeling we used to log into EQ1, where you couldn't wait to get home from work, or you were playing till you only got 4 hrs of sleep before work, but yet, you didn't care, it was fun and satisfying.

IMO, as many people that diss and badmouth EQ1, they wanted EQ1 on steriods, 3rd gen graphics , 3rd gen engine animations, etc. But VG is nothing on EQ1, nothing is similar.

As much as I hear EQ1 veterans badmouthing where it all began, EQ1 is still mechanically the best MMO out there. With the $20 all expansions pack coming out in 2wks, a surge of EQ1 accounts will again hit the game. No it won't beat WoW, but it will again breathe life into a game that people were discouraged from returning cause they were so far behind, didn't want to spend $80 to get the expansions they were missing, etc.

All in all, I was just dissapointed all over. I was expecting something different then WoW and EQ2, I was hoping for something close to EQ1, but Generation 3 type mmo. An updated EQ1 since EQ1 is almost 10 years old is what I was begging for.

So when you are whining and crying about the game becoming easy, there isn't enough of you hardcore's anymore to sustain a game. People dont want hardcore, they don't want WoW easy. They want something inbetween, and that's up to Sigil to find that median.

As for me , I won't return. The game is 'lifeless', it dosen't draw me in at all. I went back to EQ1 again, and having as much fun as I did raiding Velious 6-7 years ago.

I learned pretty graphics don't make a game any better. Cartoonish graphics don't make WoW anymore fun to play either. As outdated as EQ1 is, the graphics may suck, but there is gameplay there, it's not lifeless.

It was inevitable after almost 6 years of EQ1, people were going to leave to WoW when it released. It for that same reason VG was so hyped up during beta and thru early release.

I really hope you can find what I couldn't in VG, but there's so many players who want so many different things, I don't know if it's possible for it to succeed.

[Faltigoth]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling :)

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.


Performance drove me away; with LOTRO coming and offering much better performance for me, and less hassle with bugs, the choice for me was easy.

I might try a return to VG when I get around to upgrading my computer; but I gave up on trying to convince myself that VG was worth the hundreds or thousands of dollars it would cost for me to get it acceptably playable now. Especially since I got a game coming out set in a world I love, that I can play dang near perfectly with my setup as it is.

Yes, I know, I should get around to upgrading my Commodore 128; it still runs everything else fine, though, and doling out all that cash for one game of debatable quality is not what I consider a good decision.

[Aegorian]

Really...what did they REMOVE..dunno about lu13 as I started playing as LU13 hit...lol 29/30 they changed how mitigations works they didnt remove it.

That's pretty much all LU13 did as well, cept it was a much bigger change to the combat system as a whole. All said and done, tho, it was just a major ALTERATION. Nothing was removed.

[Malleable]

The so called "hardcore" shed more tears over the proposed change on test than the "casuals" ever have. The amount of whining and "I'm gonna quit!" posts was outrageous. Yeah, you guys sure are "hardcore". I'll keep a box of tissues handy for you "hardcores" in the future, because the game isn't done changing yet. :D

You just keep keepin' on with your bad self and your superiority complex, I'll be over here with the tissues, waiting for you when the next changes go to test . :p

Oh I loved this one. Got that right!

[Shandor]

How can Sigil win here ? By far, the casual gamers are gonna out number the hardcore gamers by a significant margin, so if they want to tailor a game that will turn a profit, what direction do you think they will head ? Logical decision.

Look at WoW, financially successful and by far the biggest MMO out there today, and you know how easy the gameplay is there.



Well im not sure about that point. At the first look you got like ~8million Easy mode Players vs. ~800k-1million "hardcore" (dont know a better word but i dont like it) Players. But the most of those 8 million are playing Wow right now. So they are not really aviable for the free marked :) Those Hardcore players are mostly waiting for something new but there is nothing out there. Only Old games they already know in and out.

So if you think about that. there are alot "hardcore" Gamers aviable but to get the "easy mode" players you have to beat Wow and GW. And i think thats impossible because Wow&GW already fits to those peoples desires 90 % already. And even if you aim at those 10 % left you have to Share with LotRO and other games like that soon. Well i cant tell for sure but i think VG would have more Players if they would stay on the "Hardcore" Field then trying to get all kind of players at once.

Shandor

[Fendaria]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?


I currently have a semi regular group of 4 I go around with. We generally don't add in anyone to the 5th or 6th slot. Why? The risk of person X not knowing what they are doing and wiping us is just too much. Add them in and suddenly they are pulling and not listening to the rest of us or get lost, it is a whole slew of things like us.

As well, there is loot. We do a true selfless NBG and we have picked up people before who complained about loot to no end and others who were pure loot grabbers. You can't NBG cause 'everything' is an upgrade for them, you can't round robin cause they never give up anything that is an upgrade to someone else, master loot is just a pain to the person who has to do it.

Then when I am not with my regular group, I'll solo. Mainly cause pickup groups feel like such a crap shoot. Everyone is disorganized or goes AFK without telling people, pull massive amounts without announcing it, and it feels like I spent half my play time that night on a CR. When I solo, I at least know if I am on a CR it was probably my fault.

Basically, there is a fear that player X I am grouping with is a jerk. I don't know what can be done to overcome this fear.

What can be done to get a 4 person group to consider taking a chance and grouping up someone they don't know?


Also, it would be nice to get some kind of bonus for helping someone out with a quest you currently aren't doing.


Fendaria

[Bhagpuss]

For constructive conversation:

Do you feel it is hard to find a group? If so how do you try to find a group (I.E do you use the LFG tool, use the region channel, do you try to put a group together yourself?) and lastly what is the cause (in your opinion) for not being able to find a group or make a group easily?

Ok here's my two copper's worth. Finding a group is not the problem; enjoying a session in a group is.

I didn't find it at all hard to get groups back when I was interested in getting them. I got groups readily as a Disciple in my 20s and a paladin in my teens. I found that all I had to do was be physically near the entrance of a dungeon or a quest hub and I would get invites without doing anything. Quite often I got them by tells while I was miles away banking or crafting.

In the early days and weeks, I accepted many of these offers, but now I don't. The reason is, gameplay in a pick-up group is way, way too fast for me and I end up with a thumping headache and/or neck-strain that can take more than a night's sleep to shift.

Now, as a 35th Disciple I duo with my girlfriend's 35th shaman, which is enormous fun. We can do a huge amount overland and get a fair way into dungeons. Outdoors we generally operate in areas where the mobs are higher level than us, making for slow, long-lasting, tactical fights. Indoors we take lower level mobs of a higher challenge rating, also resulting in long, tactical fights.

This was how group gameplay was in EQ1, the only MMO in which I ever genuinely found full groups to be both enjoyable and productive.

No changes to the LFG mechanism will tempt me to use it so long as pick-up groups are mainly interested in creaming through dungeons as fast as possible to complete quest arcs or whack nameds. If the new mechanism allows me to hook up with people who want to slowly explore new dungeons for the sake of exploring them, then I might be a deal more interested.

[Defmetal]

Just like to say, Vanguard is NO EASIER NOW then it was before.

You just get slightly more exp, that makes the game easy?
Pfft.

"easy" or "hard" is determined by the difficulty of it, not the time it takes.
You mean they made the game shorter, not easier.

The only thing making the game easier is people telling each other where to do things, especially devs. "I can't find where to go at this level" -newb
"Oh you can go here, or here, and you might want to try here, this is also good" - Dev.

Vanguard was never hardcore, and it probably won't EVER be.
Hardcore would be like, when you die somebody can loot your items.
Or you can't resurrect...
Or you lose stats when you die..
Or you lose levels..
Or even level monsters wipe the floor with you (all mobs essentially 5 dots)
Or MONSTERS loot you when you die. Like in Ultima Online

[Soluss]

Just like to say, Vanguard is NO EASIER NOW then it was before.

You just get slightly more exp, that makes the game easy?
Pfft.

"easy" or "hard" is determined by the difficulty of it, not the time it takes.
You mean they made the game shorter, not easier.

The only thing making the game easier is people telling each other where to do things, especially devs. "I can't find where to go at this level" -newb
"Oh you can go here, or here, and you might want to try here, this is also good" - Dev.

Vanguard was never hardcore, and it probably won't EVER be.
Hardcore would be like, when you die somebody can loot your items.
Or you can't resurrect...
Or you lose stats when you die..
Or you lose levels..
Or even level monsters wipe the floor with you (all mobs essentially 5 dots)
Or MONSTERS loot you when you die. Like in Ultima Online


So by your definition then you could start at level 1...kill 1 mob and ding lvl 50 and it would be no easier then going through the levels.

[Defmetal]

Nope.
Not easier, just shorter.
You're asuming it made the level 50+ content easier which is where most people say an MMORPG begins.

[Isobel]

The so called "hardcore" shed more tears over the proposed change on test than the "casuals" ever have. The amount of whining and "I'm gonna quit!" posts was outrageous. Yeah, you guys sure are "hardcore". I'll keep a box of tissues handy for you "hardcores" in the future, because the game isn't done changing yet. :D

You just keep keepin' on with your bad self and your superiority complex, I'll be over here with the tissues, waiting for you when the next changes go to test . :p

Except of course, in reality most of the people who responded to the thread about the death penalty on the Test boards made it clear that they were casual players who wanted death to retain some risk and are more than happy with the death mechanic as it stands now.

You just keep on keepin' on with your false information.

[Fingis]

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

Make the game fun.

Add some content.

Make leveling crafting fun.

No way I should have to work, unless Sigil wants to pay me to play.

[Motiv]

it was also advertised to the casual CORE gamer, that certainly isn't an EQ1 player :)

Before beta 3 started, the word casual was NEVER EVER used when talking about this game.

They softened this game up too much.

[Soluss]

Nope.
Not easier, just shorter.
You're asuming it made the level 50+ content easier which is where most people say an MMORPG begins.

I am not assuming anything. My point is that developing the character is part of the game getting to level 50 should be difficult...the only way to make that difficult is by time. In most cases I would agree with you that time does not equal difficulty..I have in fact pointed that out in a case back in EQ2 and then everyone started using that term. For example killing 1000 mobs to get a quest item drop is not more difficult then killing 1 of the mobs for it. As far as getting to level 50 I disagree with that though..the only way to make getting level 50 is by how hard it is to get xp, how hard death penalties are etc. If you killed 1 mob and dinged 50 that would be called gettting level 50 easy...so the oppiosite of that is hard.

the hardcore would say that a mmorpg begins at level cap. I however am not hardcore...I was in a top end raiding guild for years in EQ1 and I would still not say that it began at level caps. WoW may have introduced that theory but it is innacurate in a game like this...content begins when you are level 1...content from level 1 to 50 is still content. The dungeons you go through at level 10, 20 ,30 ,40 and everywhere in between is no different then dungeons you go through at lvl 50. Its still all content.

[Defmetal]

people will complain no matter what sigil does, but it still doesn't mean the game was "hardcore".

One of the only hardcore games was Ultima Online, among others, but that's probably the most popular one being that its still around and still doing "well".
Sure we could list all the truly hardcore games but theres just no point.

Making minor changes doesn't change the difficulty of the game, you need MAJOR changes to make it hardcore, and doing those would piss off the people who enjoy VG right now... the what, 160,000 people.

If you want Hardcore play Diablo 2 on hardcore mode, or UO, or Shadowbane, or heck even Runescape is more hardcore then VG (you lose items when you die).


and "easy to reach max level" doesn't mean "it's an easy game", that just means 1 aspect is somewhat easy.

[Branlin]

Just like to say, Vanguard is NO EASIER NOW then it was before.

You just get slightly more exp, that makes the game easy?
Pfft.

"easy" or "hard" is determined by the difficulty of it, not the time it takes.
You mean they made the game shorter, not easier.

The only thing making the game easier is people telling each other where to do things, especially devs. "I can't find where to go at this level" -newb
"Oh you can go here, or here, and you might want to try here, this is also good" - Dev.

Vanguard was never hardcore, and it probably won't EVER be.
Hardcore would be like, when you die somebody can loot your items.
Or you can't resurrect...
Or you lose stats when you die..
Or you lose levels..
Or even level monsters wipe the floor with you (all mobs essentially 5 dots)
Or MONSTERS loot you when you die. Like in Ultima Online

Truth.

[Defmetal]

I am not assuming anything. My point is that developing the character is part of the game getting to level 50 should be difficult...the only way to make that difficult is by time. In most cases I would agree with you that time does not equal difficulty..I have in fact pointed that out in a case back in EQ2 and then everyone started using that term. For example killing 1000 mobs to get a quest item drop is not more difficult then killing 1 of the mobs for it. As far as getting to level 50 I disagree with that though..the only way to make getting level 50 is by how hard it is to get xp, how hard death penalties are etc. If you killed 1 mob and dinged 50 that would be called gettting level 50 easy...so the oppiosite of that is hard.

the hardcore would say that a mmorpg begins at level cap. I however am not hardcore...I was in a top end raiding guild for years in EQ1 and I would still not say that it began at level caps. WoW may have introduced that theory but it is innacurate in a game like this...content begins when you are level 1...content from level 1 to 50 is still content. The dungeons you go through at level 10, 20 ,30 ,40 and everywhere in between is no different then dungeons you go through at lvl 50. Its still all content.

The only thing is, making the game level fast, means you skip out on content.
What I think should be done is, you get LESS and LESS exp the more time you've spent in one area.
If you went to KE too much, or TK, you eventually get no exp even if you are the right level.

Encouraging expanding across the world. This is technically a difficulty factor, you have to find new places, constantly explore the challenges that the area has to offer, etc. Not "hardcore" by any means, but it at least encourages and almost forces you to explore the vast world.


ok like this ... you can get from 1 to 60 in WoW in less then a month (used to be like 3 days but they keep nerfing it), you can get to 1 to 50 in VG in a month (its already been done), you can get from 1 to 75 in EQ1 in 2 days, you can go from 1 to 70 in EQ2 in about 2-3 weeks.

Somehow none of those games seem hardcore, so where are these "hardcore" players coming from saying their game is more hardcore?
I mean I quit EQ for awhile, came back, and I went from 65 to 75 in about 7 hours in Direwind. I made an alt and went from 1 to 65 in literally a day, so ...
EQ isn't hardcore. Especially if you can go from 1 to 25 in about 1-2 hours (paladul caverns).


People need to just stop whining, play the game, enjoy it, post occasional feedback, and stop the "OMG IM GONNA QUIT" crap, if you're gonna quit, press cancel, go away, we don't care. Sell your account to the RMT for all we care, but you accomplish nothing by making a scene.

[Shandor]

Just like to say, Vanguard is NO EASIER NOW then it was before.

You just get slightly more exp, that makes the game easy?
Pfft.

"easy" or "hard" is determined by the difficulty of it, not the time it takes.
You mean they made the game shorter, not easier.

The only thing making the game easier is people telling each other where to do things, especially devs. "I can't find where to go at this level" -newb
"Oh you can go here, or here, and you might want to try here, this is also good" - Dev.

Vanguard was never hardcore, and it probably won't EVER be.
Hardcore would be like, when you die somebody can loot your items.
Or you can't resurrect...
Or you lose stats when you die..
Or you lose levels..
Or even level monsters wipe the floor with you (all mobs essentially 5 dots)
Or MONSTERS loot you when you die. Like in Ultima Online

Hey i didnt start calling Peoples "Hardcore" because they want a challenging game without a all over Handholding mommy protects them. The easy mode player starts that :)
For me EQ1 wasnt Hardcore at all. It was just a game with an perfect difficoult level.
But you cant disagree that VG was much harder in every Beta status. And it was Planned Harder as it is.

Shandor

[Shandor]

The only thing is, making the game level fast, means you skip out on content.
What I think should be done is, you get LESS and LESS exp the more time you've spent in one area.
If you went to KE too much, or TK, you eventually get no exp even if you are the right level.

Encouraging expanding across the world. This is technically a difficulty factor, you have to find new places, constantly explore the challenges that the area has to offer, etc. Not "hardcore" by any means, but it at least encourages and almost forces you to explore the vast world.


ok like this ... you can get from 1 to 60 in WoW in less then a month (used to be like 3 days but they keep nerfing it), you can get to 1 to 50 in VG in a month (its already been done), you can get from 1 to 75 in EQ1 in 2 days, you can go from 1 to 70 in EQ2 in about 2-3 weeks.

Somehow none of those games seem hardcore, so where are these "hardcore" players coming from saying their game is more hardcore?
I mean I quit EQ for awhile, came back, and I went from 65 to 75 in about 7 hours in Direwind. I made an alt and went from 1 to 65 in literally a day, so ...
EQ isn't hardcore. Especially if you can go from 1 to 25 in about 1-2 hours (paladul caverns).


People need to just stop whining, play the game, enjoy it, post occasional feedback, and stop the "OMG IM GONNA QUIT" crap, if you're gonna quit, press cancel, go away, we don't care. Sell your account to the RMT for all we care, but you accomplish nothing by making a scene.

Well you got something wrong here. If you read the begining Posting its about people who actually did Quit and dont planing to Quit. If you dont like it we still read and post in here.. well why you border Reading and answering ?

Well and from the leveling time.. twinked Chars. always level much faster you know ? Try it untwinked or even without an Army behind you powerleveling you :)

Shandor

Btw: "we don't care" ? You got multiple personalities or are you possesed ? :)

[Isobel]

Hey i didnt start calling Peoples "Hardcore" because they want a challenging game without a all over Handholding mommy protects them. The easy mode player starts that :)
For me EQ1 wasnt Hardcore at all. It was just a game with an perfect difficoult level.
But you cant disagree that VG was much harder in every Beta status. And it was Planned Harder as it is.

Shandor

True. The debate about the death mechanic specifically, had nothing to do with "hardcore" versus "casual". It had to do with those who enjoy an element of risk at death and those who don't. As time is the only thing of any real value in an MMO putting people in a position where they have to invest time in order to re-gain thier XP makes it risky in actuallity rather than just annoying.

[Lanceli]

The chunk line bugs..i.e. 180 turn.. crash.. 1rst person from 3rd.. dismounted.. etc.. seem to only happen when autorun is on.

[Pherillion]

Maybe quitting the game over the death issue is a bit cynical. But everyone is titled to their opinion about the game itself. However, the "hardcore" "casual" label that you refer to on death system majority have been trying get their message across. Soluss (so did Isobel and lots of people including me), already explain in point form. Rethink what you are contributing in the post rather then trying to stair up more distance between "hardcore" "casuals". Fix the bugs not the system it self for now. That’s what should be read into. Not the war between “hardcore and casuals”

I agree completely in that they were hollow threats. Would some carry through? Undoubtedly. I have always been a proponent of individual opinions, and the freedom to express it. The labels "hardcore" and "casual" are used far too often without having any common acceptable definition, and in my post they were being used in reference to Soluss's post, thus the quotations around them. There are far too many different types of gamers to easly lump them into two camps - the stratification is far more diversified in reality. I am always simply amused at those that think they are far superior to others for their chosen style of play, and paint them with derisive and derogatory comments usually which they themselves are guilty of at times - but in their case there is always reasonable justification. :rolleyes:



Except of course, in reality most of the people who responded to the thread about the death penalty on the Test boards made it clear that they were casual players who wanted death to retain some risk and are more than happy with the death mechanic as it stands now.

You just keep on keepin' on with your false information.

The context of that post is in relation to Soluss's post and no other.Stay on track please. I'm sure every one of those so called "casuals" is identical in playstyle and preference.

False information? The "casuals" in general weren't threatening to quit - they were saying they didn't like the change. It was the "hardcores" that were throwing around threats to quit over a proposed change that they disliked. See the difference?

"In that you claim to have read the things i have been posting i would have though you would have understood the point of the post you quoted. In that you didn't i'll give you a hint. Sarcasm. Look into it.

Being versed in sarcasm I'm quite surprised you missed the entire point of that post. Why not take your own advice?


At no time have I ever taken any other position on the changes besides "I don't care." The devs can change what they will and if it affects me that severely, I'll simply go elsewhere. I still enjoy VG regardless of the minor changes being made. Will I voice my opinion? You bet. Will I whine, cry and threaten to quit? Hardly.

[Aidon]

It is making it easier. When you get your tombstone back (they can call it whatever they want. It's a tombstone. The lost tombstone bug still applies) you get all of your XP back. Just a minute ago, testing it on a character in the low thirties i before i died i had 51% into my level. When i got my tombstone back i was again 51% into my level. It's trivial. When i died, had i not gotten my tombstone back i would still only have lost 5%. That's what, three of four mobs?

Heh, maybe on test.

On a live server it can take 3 or 4 mobs to get 1% depending on dots levels group status, etc.

Soloing 2 dot red cons takes about 3-4 per percent for me at 34. 3 dot white cons seem to be about the same. Do you know how long it takes me to solo a red con 2 dot or white con 3 dot mob? =P T0 make up that 5% could take me 45 mins-hour, which is a significant chunk of most folks nightly playtime.

A death should never undo all of the xp work you've gained in an average night. That simply builds frustration and plain isn't fun.

[Isobel]

Heh, maybe on test.

On a live server it can take 3 or 4 mobs to get 1% depending on dots levels group status, etc.

Soloing 2 dot red cons takes about 3-4 per percent for me at 34. 3 dot white cons seem to be about the same. Do you know how long it takes me to solo a red con 2 dot or white con 3 dot mob? =P T0 make up that 5% could take me 45 mins-hour, which is a significant chunk of most folks nightly playtime.

A death should never undo all of the xp work you've gained in an average night. That simply builds frustration and plain isn't fun.

Yes, three or four mobs on test.

The fact is, the time invested in re-gaining your XP is waht gives death its sting. As i've said previously, time is the only thing of real value in an MMO. Time spent in recovering for character death gives value and incentive to keeping your character alive.

[creppingdeath]

Yes, three or four mobs on test.

The fact is, the time invested in re-gaining your XP is waht gives death its sting. As i've said previously, time is the only thing of real value in an MMO. Time spent in recovering for character death gives value and incentive to keeping your character alive.


This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

[Isobel]

This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

You don't think CRs are fun, that's great. Don't do them. It's your choice. You get to decide which is more valuable to you; the chance to summon and get back to hunting or the chance to regain your lost XP and then some by fighting back to your stone.

[Nostalgix]

This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

Imagine ...
You die. A window pops up asking "Do you want to continue ? Yes/No".
You click on "Yes" and rezz with full health/mana and equipment and resume the fight vs the big evil mob that just kicked your ass.
Wouldn't that be fantastic ?! Wouldn't that be awesome gameplay ?!?
That would be like ... Tetris ... err or ... Super Mario .. errr hmmm .. wait ... :eek:

[Cavaras]

I wont quit even if they make this game super easy, its not about the game being easy to me, its about the friendships you make and the FUN that you have. there does need to be stuff added, and they know it and are doing the best they can to bring it to us. We have to be patient and just enjoy the art and people we meet to socialize with. Would be nice if in the short term they added some fun things though, such as drinking contests, fishing, and some gm events, heck even add some gambleing to the mix, stuff to keep people interested in MMOS has alot to do with player and GM driven events, there needs to be more of them. I played EQ1, EQ2, WOW for many years, EQ1 being my favorite due to the decent amount of GM events, it made the world more alive and took away the feel that u wait for mob a to spawn and kill him then loot his item then goto mob b, kill it, then go turn in item for reward. It makes the world a bit more unexpected..

[Yurin]

Yes Elrar that is totally needed. I think 1 big problem is there is no benefit to grouping. It needs to stand out. For instance. Gear...you can get gear that is equal to anything you can group for. XP you can get just as good xp solo as you can in grouping. Give reasons for people to go into dungeons (better quest rewards then you can get by soloing or buying/ better loot drops off namers/ big xp bonus both for group and for dungeons themselves). There is no enticement to group when the risk far outweighs the reward. There is no enticement to group when it is much more efficient to solo.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they should not have solo content. I think it should be possible to solo all the way.... I just think it should be harder xp to solo (like was advertised) and I think the rewards should nowhere near be as good...or atleast not come anywhere near as easy. There is a difference between forced grouping and enticed grouping. As long as you have a path to do both for everyone but the rewards are better for a group it is fine imo.

And what a farce....another of the core aspects this game was supposedly based on was that it was to be group centric. In their blind panic to keep/gain subscriptions they tried to make the game more like WoW, they've turned it into such a solo orientated game that people just don't need to group much and therefore its very difficult for people to find groups. So what do they need to do now, re-look at making grouping viable again, somthing that was in the original design. What an absolute mess of indecision.

As to the OP's question I cancelled over the proposed changes. The fact that they were even on test and the reasoning behind them was the final straw for me. This game is going no where near the direction it was portrayed during development. Every change is aimed at the WoW type player. Sigil can resent that as much as they like but every change indicates it to be the case.

here is an example of why I cant play this game anymore, an example of Sigil's direction....

Elrar mentions earlier in this thread, (as a reason for reducing xp loss on death even more), that 10% xp penalty is a lot to some people as thats all they make in a night. My question is why are changes to the death penalty being considered in order to cater to those who only make 10% level a night? Why do all the people, who bought this game on its design intention of having a meaningful death penalty, have to put up with a reduced death penalty for this group that make 10% a night.

Here's the situation, player A, the 10% a night man, takes 10 nights to make 1 level if he never dies! If he were to die a couple of times during his progression through a level, whereby he couldnt get back to his corpse and had to take the full xp hit, he would take 12 nights to gain that level. So again my question is why is the death penalty being made easier to cater for this type of player, why does this typr of player dictate the death penalty and everyone else just has to go with it, just so he can level in 10 days instead of 12!!!!

This, Sigils total U-turn on their intended target player is what sent me to the unsubscribe button. I am not saying I will never come back, but it is very unlikely if they continue in this direction. Historically, over time, all MMOG's seem to get easier (apart from WoW of course as that couldnt get any easier) that being the case, based on the changes continually being made now to make things easier, how much like WoW will this game be in a year, the only diffference will be the graphics at this rate.

[Aulfauf]

I consider myself a casual player and I think that death should hurt.
Death penalty is too soft right now imo, but I can live with that.

Why should death hurt ?
If I am in a dungeon, there must be the fear of death, to make it exciting (to me). I want myself to take care and look behind me from time to time to see if there are wanderers around. I want that adrenalin kick, when my group pulls a mob and suddenly there is a respawn behind the healer and things get out of control and everyone tries its best to handle the situation, because nobody wants to die. I want my group to discuss how to take out that named before us....and so on.
If death does not hurt, there is no real thrill in those situations. And makes the world feel less like a world.

I believe that a lot of people that dislike "the sting of death" simply cant deal with the frustration. It has (imo!) NOTHING to do with time or something else. They want to accomplish everything(=reward), but if they fail, they dont want the consequences (=penalty). (Imo!) this seems to be more true for younger and imature people.

[rhagz]

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?


Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

[Aegorian]

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

Well you win the "I Make Zero Sense" award for the day.

[GiggsBeckham11]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling :)

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

I have no intention of leaving Vanguard anytime soon. I have played through Beta and live for over 7 months now and have enjoyed my time within Telon immensely. I have seen it grow mmeasurably from my first forays in Beta and continue to watch it develop.

[Baseline]

I'll come back when there's an actual incentive to PvP in this game, and when they iron out all the pets 1-shotting damage BS and paladins DOV damage in PvP.

[owmart]

One posible solution to the grouping problem is a extemely simple answer in my mind:
1) Give Characters with the summon ability, the ability to summon any player within a chunk (like COH\COV) and not just near dungeouns
2) Give certain classes like druids and Sorcerors the ability to port to different locations all over the continents (Like EQ1)

I think it would be a quick win for the game. I would imagine that the devs are probably just scared to implement such a fix because its ideas from other games. However, in my mind if i was creating a game i would use the best ideas from successful MMO's to build upon.

This is just my opinion....

[Aegorian]

One posible solution to the grouping problem is a extemely simple answer in my mind:
1) Give Characters with the summon ability, the ability to summon any player within a chunk (like COH\COV) and not just near dungeouns
2) Give certain classes like druids and Sorcerors the ability to port to different locations all over the continents (Like EQ1)

I think it would be a quick win for the game. I would imagine that the devs are probably just scared to implement such a fix because its ideas from other games. However, in my mind if i was creating a game i would use the best ideas from successful MMO's to build upon.

This is just my opinion....

1st point, sure.
2nd point, hell no. Putting money making abilities in the hands of a few classes FTL. I'd rather not see people make careers off of abilities they learned by clicking on a trainer or did some overly easy quest for. Ports should be controlled via NPC and be readily available to all... not just when your local Wizard happens to be online.

[Loreley27]

I did not yet quit, but am in the way of doing so - means I log in a lot less frequently, and overall have lost most interest in playing.

Sigil could keep me as customer if they
- would keep a line for their game (I wouldn't necessarily quit if it keeps getting easier, but watering down every effort I made in the next or second-next patch really gets boring and takes out any incentives to do anything)
- would make bans or, if not possible, at least give an apology for letting exploits like the "clicky-effects" happen, NOT just patch it away 12! hours after getting live and leave all honest players like "you didn't exploit? well, we love exploiters and want them to get what you do not because you like honest competition"
- make a concept that works for equipment - at the moment most high-levels have equipment out of their 30s because it's just better than the high-level gear (the little there is)
- get at least SOME interesting encounters into game ... I like the dungeons in Vanguard generally, but it gets very boring when every named I see has 50% more hp than the average mob, and that's it ... no special skills, no different/more advanced AI, nothing ... just loot in a bag (loot which is generally not worth anything).

[Swayde]

I haven't quit, but there's really not much keeping me atm. Basically what is keeping me is that I have a great guild and I paid for 6 months to get a better deal on the monthly fee.

I've been frustrated since before launch basically and very seriously came close to buying LoTRO instead of Vanguard, I was in beta for both of them (my friends are split between the two games with a couple stragglers in WoW still). The reason for pre-launch frustrations is that I wanted to be a Kurasasha Rogue Alchemist, well Alchemy didn't make it for lunch, and Rogues were really boring for me (I played one in beta). Soooo I decided to stick with what I know and love, healing, but the only healer for Kuras is Disciple and I didn't care for it nearly as much as a Shaman, Cleric or Blood Mage....btw, why on earth can Kuras be Disciples and not Shaman or Blood Mages???? I mean, really a Blood Mage would fit into the lore so well, they can create symbiotes, your newbie experience revolves around symbiotes!

Anyhow the issues I've had...I made the mistake of creating on Kojan, and then to make it even worse, I chose to be a Carpenter because I wanted to make furniture for my house and a boat for my husband and I to get around on. WOW could I have been any more stupid? Finding things to do as an adventurer on Kojan was so hard, then I finally learn the continent is not finished and that it's designed for me to have to go to Qalia or Thestra. What a shame, Kojan is so beautiful...Then I hit 21 in Carpentry and cannot complete my boat quest!!! I had to wait until a patch was put in to fix the bugs so I could complete it. At least some furniture did finally make it into the game, but I haven't had a chance to experiement with it and I don't have a house yet.

So since then I've dealt with my tools not working, faction requirements being changed on me a few times and many other annoying little bugs. And that's not counting general CTD's and lock ups, getting stuck in geography, getting booted from my group, losing loot due to bugs with the loot options...etc.

Okay, now on a more personal level... I've recently had several things IRL keeping me from playing nearly as much as I would like to. Totally not Sigil's fault, I am completely aware of that. BUT, when I do get a chance to log in, almost every single time, I have no guildchat/groupchat...wtf??? That has been going on since beta and I've not seen any mention of them even working on the problem (Maybe I missed it /shrug). So when I am already stressed out IRL and then I go to log in for 20-30 minutes to catch up on what my guildmates have been up to, I can't! And even zoning doesn't always fix it reliably so I have to log out to desktop and come back, sometimes as much as 3-4 times! Well my computer isn't the most powerful (it does however exceed the minimum and is either at, or near the recommended), logging in and out takes time, by the time I can actually communicate all I get to say is, hi guys, well my time is up, see ya later and log out =/

It hurts, it really does. I was the one who told all of my friends about this game. I have been following it for years, literally. And I am just so frustrated and disappointed. I certainly hope that things improve enough over the next 5 months of my subscription so that my husband and I don't end up moving on and leaving behind our great guild that we both really like. Being able to communicate reliably with my guild and group would REALLY be a HUGE improvement that might make it easier to overlook some of the other annoying bugs.

[sweetdigs]

I

False information? The "casuals" in general weren't threatening to quit - they were saying they didn't like the change. It was the "hardcores" that were throwing around threats to quit over a proposed change that they disliked. See the difference?

.

Umm.. Yeah, of course the casuals weren't threatening to quit because it wasn't one of the things that really mattered to them. It did matter to those of us who want a game with risk versus reward. If the devs decided to remove soloing from the game, how many of those "casuals" do you think would then be threatening to quit? Probably all of them. Yet although a lot of us "hardcores" would say we don't really like the change (not all, but most), we wouldn't threaten to quit about it.

Capiche?

[HarmonyShidreth]

The only change I want to this game is to have more people in it, problem is that I think the changes they are making now could have meant for more people playing the game in the beginning, but at this point i think that ship has sailed. The "casual" crowd has long since been turned off of this game and the "hard core" crowd is getting turned off by the changes made recently.

I think these recent death mechanic changes are just plain foolish, but it isn't exactly the end of the world.

[ikaoma420]

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

Well not to argue but its not like its the Bronze star Medal or Legion of Merit. It is awarded to soldiers wounded or killed in action. They were actually given out on the spot in Vietnam. I have a few friends who received them during the first Desert Storm. Some of them might I add are just like me argumentative pricks HAHA.

I'm not taking anything away from you Isobel. I totally respect what you have done for this country.

[Juk]

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

You don't think CRs are fun, that's great. Don't do them. It's your choice. You get to decide which is more valuable to you; the chance to summon and get back to hunting or the chance to regain your lost XP and then some by fighting back to your stone.

*salute*
Thankyou for making the point so clear.

And, thankyou for serving our country!

[elektra]

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?


You seriously have a Purple Heart Izzy ? Wow, I must say I am impressed if that's true :)

[creppingdeath]

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.


I may disagree with Isobell on alot of things, but I call BS on this post. How she choses to act or represnt her medal is her call. At the least you owe her respect for her service, not many answer the call and it is a thankless low paid get your ass shot off job.


Ex 2LT. in 4th POG (Airbone) here and I can respect that.

[Shandor]

I may disagree with Isobell on alot of things, but I call BS on this post. How she choses to act or represnt her medal is her call. At the least you owe her respect for her service, not many answer the call and it is a thankless low paid get your ass shot off job.


Ex 2LT. in 4th POG (Airbone) here and I can respect that.

Well here in germany i work for security to defend the U.S. Bases from Terrorists. Noone respects me for that and i dont get any Medals for Protecting the U.S. Soldiers :(

Shandor

PS: Sorry for the offtopic but i think we should go back to the Topic now.

[Chae668]

i think the topic should end.

[Poke]

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?


Wow. I knew you were different than these other clowns. Thank you for your service and I am impressed to the highest now.

[Martok]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling :)

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

I wouldn't come back to this game if it came with a coupon for free sex with every female sigil employee.

[Chae668]

I wouldn't come back to this game if it came with a coupon for free sex with every female sigil employee.
your more than a forum(cant use troll, so..)gnome. just go away.

[Martok]

your more than a forum(cant use troll, so..)gnome. just go away.

do you post in bold red because you feel nobody will read your worthless pig-latin if you didn't.

People who put their character classes and levels in sigs are retards.

People who put "Level 27 in EQ2" are the leaders of the shortbus.

I got to level 10 in pokemon, i should put that in my sig. it will make me feel important.

Hanzo - LOTR sucks and so do you.

[Martok]

I've rarely met fellow vets who received the Purple Heart and bragged about it, especially in a public forum. They tend to show more maturity than that.

You are correct.

The guy who posted this is full of BS.. The only purple heart he has is probably his fat laden, cholesterol hardened heart that has turned purple because its a year away from coronary failure.

[rhagz]

I've rarely met fellow vets who received the Purple Heart and bragged about it, especially in a public forum. They tend to show more maturity than that.

Exactly my thoughts. No one I know who has served would refer to it as that 'purple thing that's shaped like a heart'. It's extremely disrespectful to the many men and women who have given their lives in the line of duty, and anyone that has earned one and lived to tell about it should not be so flippant about it.

[Poke]

Exactly my thoughts. No one I know who has served would refer to it as that 'purple thing that's shaped like a heart'. It's extremely disrespectful to the many men and women who have given their lives in the line of duty, and anyone that has earned one and lived to tell about it should not be so flippant about it.

But if you are wrong that is a screwed up thing to say.

[Wiglac]

Just a thought... the US is the only country I know that gives a medal for being wounded/killed in combat. I know we have totally hijacked this thread... but the Purple Heart really is nothing to be proud of. Just means you were doing your job. Thats what the uniform is for.

PS... 17 years in the Army.. just not the US Army :P

[Kimi]

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

OK, I call total BS on this one.

I spent 6 years in the military, and have worked with and around and on military and military bases much longer.

And I have never heard of any real vet (1) bragging about his medals, or (2) described the Purple Heart in that manner.

In other words, your credibilitiy just tanked bigtime.

[Kimi]

Just a thought... the US is the only country I know that gives a medal for being wounded/killed in combat. I know we have totally hijacked this thread... but the Purple Heart really is nothing to be proud of. Just means you were doing your job. Thats what the uniform is for.

PS... 17 years in the Army.. just not the US Army :P

Oddly enough, the Purple Heart was I think the very first medal the US ever authorized, back in 1778 or so.

[Aidon]

Wow. I knew you were different than these other clowns. Thank you for your service and I am impressed to the highest now.

I think you'd be surprised at how many vets there are on these boards ;)

Most just don't advetise it, as it has zero to do with the game.

[Isobel]

Exactly my thoughts. No one I know who has served would refer to it as that 'purple thing that's shaped like a heart'. It's extremely disrespectful to the many men and women who have given their lives in the line of duty, and anyone that has earned one and lived to tell about it should not be so flippant about it.

I was making a point, which it seems most of you missed. Equating death in a game to death in the military, as if the consequences were at all the same, is disgusting.

[ikaoma420]

I was making a point, which it seems most of you missed. Equating death in a game to death in the military, as if the consequences were at all the same, is disgusting.

Okay just to clear this up did you get a purple heart or were you just making a point?

[Honor Woods]

Just a thought... the US is the only country I know that gives a medal for being wounded/killed in combat. I know we have totally hijacked this thread... but the Purple Heart really is nothing to be proud of. Just means you were doing your job. Thats what the uniform is for.

PS... 17 years in the Army.. just not the US Army :P

Russians have some kind of wound badge, iirc. I know the Germans in WWI and WWII had wound stripes for their uniforms. I'd have to look up for other countries.

As my friend Vinnie told me when I asked him about his:

They mean I was either very lucky or very unlucky three times in my life, depending on your point of view.

EDIT: the UK doesn't seem to have a wound badge. France has the Insigne du Blessé Militaire for getting wounded or otherwise ill or injured. Poland has/had Wound Stars. Italy had the War Merit Cross during WWI, which was given out for wounds, amongst other reasons. And Japan had a wound badge in WWII.

[Isobel]

Okay just to clear this up did you get a purple heart or were you just making a point?

I did yes, get a Purple Heart. As it's the medal i feel i did the least to actually earn it's the one i'm most comfortable mentioning. There is nothing special abbout getting hurt.

[elektra]

I was making a point, which it seems most of you missed. Equating death in a game to death in the military, as if the consequences were at all the same, is disgusting.

I'm with Izzy on this.

[ikaoma420]

I did yes, get a Purple Heart. As it's the medal i feel i did the least to actually earn it's the one i'm most comfortable mentioning. There is nothing special abbout getting hurt.

Gotcha.

[Mysticraven]

First of all I don't plan on quitting this game anytime soon, but with all the remarks about death penalties there is no easy answer for the devs in which direction to go. I too like hardcore death penalties, but some changes could make it easier for both sides to accept.

Apon death you are are given the option to have your gear but with a greater loss of xp untill tombstone is retrieved. This enables you to get to harder locations to retrieve your tombstone. If you select the default raise then you revive with no gear but a less penalty of xp loss then selecting the first option. A player could still recall his gear apon the default option at rez areas like they already can if they feel they are unable to get their tombstone, but with even a greater loss of xp.

Do I expect Sigil to follow this as a template for Death penalty? Not at all! This is just a suggestion that may help with some other ideas that they may be considering. All players must understand the more support this product receives will only make it stronger for the future. It takes money to develope these products and Sigil was tapped out. They made a promise and Brad kept it despite the product being unfinished. Was there over hype in this product? That is only determined by each indiviual playing. The flying mounts will be out, the raid content will come, and bugs will be fixed. The only way for all these things to come out sooner than later is all dependant apon the games support from the community. Please understand that not all changes will be accepted, so you have to look at what this product brings to the idustry as a whole not what it is atm. If you truly want this game to be the experience worthy of being called one of the best then support it. These games are about change and that is why I support mmo's compared to console. Because it is never the same game month to month. It evolves and only gets better when the devs and players work with each other. Thank you.

[Soluss]

First of all I don't plan on quitting this game anytime soon, but with all the remarks about death penalties there is no easy answer for the devs in which direction to go. I too like hardcore death penalties, but some changes could make it easier for both sides to accept.

Apon death you are are given the option to have your gear but with a greater loss of xp untill tombstone is retrieved. This enables you to get to harder locations to retrieve your tombstone. If you select the default raise then you revive with no gear but a less penalty of xp loss then selecting the first option. A player could still recall his gear apon the default option at rez areas like they already can if they feel they are unable to get their tombstone, but with even a greater loss of xp.

Do I expect Sigil to follow this as a template for Death penalty? Not at all! This is just a suggestion that may help with some other ideas that they may be considering. All players must understand the more support this product receives will only make it stronger for the future. It takes money to develope these products and Sigil was tapped out. They made a promise and Brad kept it despite the product being unfinished. Was there over hype in this product? That is only determined by each indiviual playing. The flying mounts will be out, the raid content will come, and bugs will be fixed. The only way for all these things to come out sooner than later is all dependant apon the games support from the community. Please understand that not all changes will be accepted, so you have to look at what this product brings to the idustry as a whole not what it is atm. If you truly want this game to be the experience worthy of being called one of the best then support it. These games are about change and that is why I support mmo's compared to console. Because it is never the same game month to month. It evolves and only gets better when the devs and players work with each other. Thank you.

The problem I have with your suggestion is this...that choice is already there...You can soulbind your gear and it will stay on you...but but but then I cant sell it...well too damn bad you want death penalty without losing your armor the choice is there...ok so you dont like that either...get a saddlebag and put some backup armor in it..you dont need top of the line armor to do a corpse run...that saddlebag armor stays with you when you die...so where is the problem?

[Mysticraven]

The problem I have with your suggestion is this...that choice is already there...You can soulbind your gear and it will stay on you...but but but then I cant sell it...well too damn bad you want death penalty without losing your armor the choice is there...ok so you dont like that either...get a saddlebag and put some backup armor in it..you dont need top of the line armor to do a corpse run...that saddlebag armor stays with you when you die...so where is the problem?

I do understand that, and once again this is only a suggestion that may never put into game or do i expect it to. I support whatever decisions that Sigil makes reguarding this.