Throw us a bone guys...

[Mug]

...and by "us" I mean the "PVP Community" and by "guys" I mean "Sigil Developers". While we appreciate the recent bug fixes, PVP still has a long way to go to be anywhere near where it should be. While I realize PVP is not high priority, all I'm really asking is you guys drop by some of the PVP threads/forums every once and a while to say whats up, ya know, just to get a general idea of where the players think PVP should be so that when it is time to address it, you've already got an idea of where to go. If you already infact have an idea of where PVP is going, run it by us. ;)

Thanks :D

[Cohh]

The PVP rewards system, including items and specialized armor, with unique effects and graphics, including Infamy purached potions, special items and unique effects...














































Wont be in for another two years :D

[Vyvian Vycious]

Though I've not tried PvP in Vanguard, what I can tell you from the PvE servers is that many, many changes were made to classes and what their skills and spells do because of the PvP servers.

There either needs to be a complete separation between PvP server mechanics and PvE server mechanics or a happy medium needs to be found. At this rate, there is no way to make this game equal for both play types.

I was never a big PvP fan, however, I find myself leaning towards finding a good PvP game. The PvE, quite frankly gets boring after you max a character.

Just consider in your requests for PvP changes, how it will also effect the PvE aspect of the game, which, it was initially designed for.

[Labyrrinth]

Though I've not tried PvP in Vanguard, what I can tell you from the PvE servers is that many, many changes were made to classes and what their skills and spells do because of the PvP servers..

What changes were made to classes/skills/spells on the pve servers that are based on the pvp servers?

[Kappa]

What changes were made to classes/skills/spells on the pve servers that are based on the pvp servers?


Who cares? No body plays either. :volcano:

[Labyrrinth]

I play both :)

[Vyvian Vycious]

What changes were made to classes/skills/spells on the pve servers that are based on the pvp servers?

Considering I'm a rogue, no changes that had an impact on my character. However, spell durations, DoT damage and Roots come to mind as some tweaks that were made after the PvP players insisted they were too powerful and a serious advantage. Again, I personally was not effected. Simply was stating that changes made to make PvP balanced do not necessarily keep PvE balanced.

[Labyrrinth]

I'm still unclear on what changes on the pvp servers impacted the pve servers

DoT dmg - the only issue I'm aware of was that dots weren't working when cast on other players (pvp). They fixed this on the pvp servers - how did this impact pve?


Root - I'm not aware of any changes anywhere. Root always broke or had a chance to break on dmg... so that's not new as far as I know.

Spell durations - Again, I'm not aware of any change to this.

I been really busy lately so I could have easily missed some patch notes, changes, etc. so I'd really be interested in hearing more.

[Fuz]

I chose a Team PvP server to add that little element of risk that a PvE server is lacking.

Currently, apart from the obvious damage related bugs (Pally fixed, Necro pet remains, to mention a couple) - I see a balance problem with sleep/root/mez/stun, as well as in-combat invisiblity. It is way too easy to chain sleep/root/mez/stun. Also, if you are attacking up close and personal - the ability to instantly re-invis seems a bit of a stretch.

My suggestions would be - for pvp only: Modify sleep/root/mez/stun duration to be shorter for pvp, and/or add a chance for random break of sleep/root/mez/stun after 40-60% of duration - maybe allowing better def.stats to increase the chance of breaking the spell. Increase chance of breaking sleep/root/mez/stun if your attacker no longer have you as primary target. Reduce chance of successful chain sleep/root/mez/stun by increasing the targeted player's resistance for each sleep/root he is exposed to (and that lands). Reset those resistances as soon player is out of combat. Once invisibility is broken, player cannot re-invis for a certain duration after having used an ability.Note that I am a druid - and I do like to root - but I think it currently is too unbalanced to create long lasting fun fights.

/enableflameprotection :rolleyes:

[popsicledeath]

I'm still unclear on what changes on the pvp servers impacted the pve servers

DoT dmg - the only issue I'm aware of was that dots weren't working when cast on other players (pvp). They fixed this on the pvp servers - how did this impact pve?


Root - I'm not aware of any changes anywhere. Root always broke or had a chance to break on dmg... so that's not new as far as I know.

Spell durations - Again, I'm not aware of any change to this.

I been really busy lately so I could have easily missed some patch notes, changes, etc. so I'd really be interested in hearing more.

I'm interested in this too... please Vyvian, inform us.

[Mug]

There are two seperate PVP issues that need to be addressed.

Those issues are balance and death PENALTY (notice i didnt say reward).

Balance needs to be in place mainly to nerf overpowered 1 and 2 shot abilities. I play a druid, and most fights consist of me pressing starfall really quickly. Basically, PVP damage needs to once again be nerfed down, it was once before and scaled to lower level PVP, now it needs to be done again for higher level pvp. Fights are so fast that one party never even has a chance to react before he/she is dead, and that is not good pvp. Make the fights last long enough that skill and tactics determine the outcome of the fight, not who can spam their insta kill ability faster.

On the death penalty, it needs to be such that fights can actually be won. Right now, with altars so rampant, people are releasing to them, summoning their corpse and coming back to attack you again within 60 seconds or less. Honestly, what needs to happen is no releasing to altars upon pvp death, and remove bind stones that arent in some sort of city. Then, have guards that actually enforce the laws of their cities surrounding the bind stones so that it is very difficult to bind camp someone. This would pretty much solve the altar rushing problem and have a decent penalty for death (the walk back to your hunting grounds).

The last thing we want is World of Warcraft style PVP where fights are over in seconds and altar (aka graveyard) rushing is rampant. Address these two issues and you will find a very happy, and growing PVP community in Vanguard.

Thats just my 2CP.

What do you guys think?

PS. More detailed information in these two posts:
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17531
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18126

[Mug]

bump

[KariTR]

Though I've not tried PvP in Vanguard, what I can tell you from the PvE servers is that many, many changes were made to classes and what their skills and spells do because of the PvP servers.

There either needs to be a complete separation between PvP server mechanics and PvE server mechanics or a happy medium needs to be found. At this rate, there is no way to make this game equal for both play types.

I was never a big PvP fan, however, I find myself leaning towards finding a good PvP game. The PvE, quite frankly gets boring after you max a character.

Just consider in your requests for PvP changes, how it will also effect the PvE aspect of the game, which, it was initially designed for.


A few points

1) PvP'rs play PvE too.
2) We all concede the game was released early until it comes to character "fixes." What on earth gave you any reason to think the skill trees were finished when a lot of other things werent?
3) There is already a dual system for skills that allows them to work differently depending on whether we are PvPing or PvEing. Those DoTs that could damage NPCs but couldnt touch PCs didnt give it away for you? How about Fear, FD, Leech.

Go find a scapegoat somewhere else. Your argument is invalid.

[Desu]

They just need to do this.

Make Skills have a base damage with modifiers for specific situations on top of that.

1. PvE damage, balance this first and make this balanced via global fixes.
2. PvP damage, This uses the PvE damage and reduces or increases it accordingly to accomodate PvP.
3. Extra modifiers could be implemented for cool features in the future.

Or... They could balance NPC's and PC's health and so they could balance PvE and it should balance out pvp for the most part. Right now the major problem is Mobs have SHITLOADS of hp, and do little damage. While we have little hitpoints but do SHITLOADS of damage. Dont ask me why they didnt balance this.

[norast]

There are two seperate PVP issues that need to be addressed.

Those issues are balance and death PENALTY (notice i didnt say reward).

Balance needs to be in place mainly to nerf overpowered 1 and 2 shot abilities. I play a druid, and most fights consist of me pressing starfall really quickly. Basically, PVP damage needs to once again be nerfed down, it was once before and scaled to lower level PVP, now it needs to be done again for higher level pvp. Fights are so fast that one party never even has a chance to react before he/she is dead, and that is not good pvp. Make the fights last long enough that skill and tactics determine the outcome of the fight, not who can spam their insta kill ability faster.

On the death penalty, it needs to be such that fights can actually be won. Right now, with altars so rampant, people are releasing to them, summoning their corpse and coming back to attack you again within 60 seconds or less. Honestly, what needs to happen is no releasing to altars upon pvp death, and remove bind stones that arent in some sort of city. Then, have guards that actually enforce the laws of their cities surrounding the bind stones so that it is very difficult to bind camp someone. This would pretty much solve the altar rushing problem and have a decent penalty for death (the walk back to your hunting grounds).

The last thing we want is World of Warcraft style PVP where fights are over in seconds and altar (aka graveyard) rushing is rampant. Address these two issues and you will find a very happy, and growing PVP community in Vanguard.

Thats just my 2CP.

What do you guys think?

PS. More detailed information in these two posts:
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17531
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18126

This is 100% true and it is why I usually avoid some encounters all together. At higher levels if we are to fight someone over a dungeon it usually has to end up becoming a alter camping until they release to bind since they will just be back to you full health within 30 seconds. At least with these types of fights I am getting "infamy" and some coin drop from killing the people, so they are more likely to release to bind if beaten.

The pvp I will normally avoid is when there are some level 40s (i am 50 btw) attacking southwatch for example. People are crying for us to help them, and I can kill them rather easily have 10+ levels on them but they are not losing anything by getting killed by me so they will just constantly come back at me until eventually I am fighting an endless cycle of people, get zerged and killed. I end up losing "infamy" and coin and after killing them dozens of times they end up the real winners.

So people crying for help in southwatch, I normally kill a few people but move on, no real point for any 50 to waste their time fighting an endless zerg battle against some level 40s not taking any type of hit to their ego or pocket.

Solution to both problems? Possibly have 1 alter per chunk that is designated rez point for any pvp deaths and make that alter far away from any populated city or dungeon.

[unearth]

I think the point here is that Sigil is not taking into account the changes they are making in patches and how they affect the pvp community. There are abilities that are doing too much damage or favor one class over another etc. etc. Balance issues are another story.

I havnt complained a whole lot about pvp as i know there are many other issues to be taken care of. However, the 2 pvp servers we have in the US alone account for a lot of people. While i dont know the exact number of people that the 2 servers total, its enough to pay attention to and its certain to keep people playing as there is no end-game content as of yet.

[Mardy]

Aside from arguing back and forth, opinion vs opinion, PvE vs PvP... I think the OP was only wishing for a dev's attention & response to the PvP threads. And I agree with him, PvP servers have paying customers on them as well, so devs should address to the PvP population along with PvE issues. I have yet to see one dev inside the PvP forum talking about what they are looking to change, what plans they have, and what issues they are aware of.

[Safire]

what is pee vee pee?

is that some weird thing where like people try and kill each other instead of like... killing monsters?

weird.

:D

[Mug]

Aside from arguing back and forth, opinion vs opinion, PvE vs PvP... I think the OP was only wishing for a dev's attention & response to the PvP threads. And I agree with him, PvP servers have paying customers on them as well, so devs should address to the PvP population along with PvE issues. I have yet to see one dev inside the PvP forum talking about what they are looking to change, what plans they have, and what issues they are aware of.

The nail his been hit on its head ladies and gents.

Where art thou, Devs?

[Smedy]

My class has several of pvp bugs, but that dosnt bother me nearly as much as the "spawn at Altar" thing.

I mean this game had a nice design from the beginning being that "Bindstones" are FAR more rare then altars, and i though it would actually be fun to play on a pvp server knowing that someone you kill will NOT be back to bother you in 1 minute.

I got to lvl 28 then the horrible "Altar spawn" patch came, since then pvp has just gone from being somthing, to no more then a never ending zergfest without skill.

I mean why the hell havent you removed this on the PvP servers yet? Its just silly to have such a death system where nothing happens but you spawn 30-60 sec away from where you died. When subscribing to vanguard i was promised a game for "core" gamers where there actually is penalty. Yea there was some penalty at the beginning, but all penalties has been reduced and keep getting reduced.

You need to separate PVP and PVE servers fully , you might also need to separate the fixes / reductions you do for PVP in PVE, cause if you nerf somthing in pvp, you might break the class entierly in pve.

Ive taken a break from vangaurd my self, i find more joy playing everquest emulated PvP servers at the moment, as its far more death penalty and balance, however i love vanguard for what it COULD be.

Im still activly checking patch messages for fixes in the areas that im interessted, once i see some good stuff ill be back to play.

[Mardy]

While I understand Sigil is stretched thin, they got a lot of catch up work to do with LOTR:O release coming up, they really need to learn how to keep customers. Communication is still lacking from Sigil. Not assigning a game designer to talk with the PvP crowd is a bad choice. Yes we know Vanguard will lose some players to LOTR:O, some only temporarily, but others may leave permenantly. But Sigil please address to the PvP crowd so you don't lose that crowd as well. It'd be a slap in the face & disgrace to lose PvP crowd to a game like LOTR:O that doesn't have a FFA/Team PvP ruleset servers.

EQ2 assigned a couple of coders to fix PvP issues back when I played it, and they regularly talked with the PvP crowd to find out what's wrong, what needs to be tweaked, and what they are looking to fix. This is exactly what Sigil needs right now. Address to all players, heck I would even settle for more dev responses to PvE issues on all affiliate forums. Communication really is a weak point with Sigil at the moment, and it needs to get better if you really want to keep customers.

I like Vanguard, I want to keep playing Vanguard, but I have to admit the failure that is with the VG affiliate program. I'm also very disappointed with the lack of dev attention to PvP issues. It's either you folks wanting to keep customers and attracting new customers, or you want to keep pushing them away with your lack of communication. Sure we see a lot of dev respones to crafting and diplomacy, but come on, while I know those 2 spheres are important in Vanguard, you *need* to pay a lot more attention to the adventure sphere. Crafting & diplomacy would mean nothing if there are not enough players to support those 2 spheres. You need after all, adventurers to dump money to pay for services. More dev respones to adventure & PvP issues please.

Edit: To clarify, Cylus does a GREAT job addressing to the playerbase issues with itemization. He talks to people, finds out what may be bugged/broken, and at times fixes things on the spot. Bronstahd does a great job addressing quest issues/questions. Why aren't there more devs like them for the adventure sphere? Where's the class lead to talk to players and find out what people feel about their classes? Where's a game designer to talk to players about what they feel about PvP situation? How about a coder coming in and saying "hey folks we should have the raid interface ready in the next 2 weeks, and we got 2 full on raid zones opening up, stay tuned!"? Where's Brard making appearances on all of official VG affiliate forums to say "thank you for your support, any questions/concerns?"? More communication would go a looong way in keeping customers.