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Labyrrinth
04-24-2007, 01:50 PM
Game Over! is a universally inaccessible game developed by Dr. Dimitris Grammenos. Game Over is a game that can be played, effectively, by no one. The goal of Game Over! is to be used as an educational tool for understanding game accessibility issues and promoting game accessibility guidelines.

In addition to and in conjunction with the game itself, Dr. Grammenos has also written an opinion piece on why the industry should concern itself with accessibility issues for those with disabilities.

It is so absurd, but it seems that most people believe that disability is something like a strange, rare disease, that happens to the “others”, not themselves. Well, wake up and smell the coffee. Disability is not something that you can predict or avoid, no matter what you do. There is no vaccine against it, and wearing a condom doesn’t really help.

It can be either a temporary annoyance, like a broken arm or an eye infection, or a companion for a lifetime, but one thing’s for sure; it will definitely change your capability of playing games. Not because it has to; just because people who create games seem not to be aware of this simple fact.

Read the full article (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13650) and if you’re feeling especially brave, download the game and try it for yourself to get a taste of what it may be like to play a game as a disabled gamer.

I applaud Dr. Grammenos’ stance and hope to see more game development companies take the lead in implementing the features necessary so that everyone has the option of enjoying the games we all love.

Rashgar
04-24-2007, 02:13 PM
There is a Game for the Handicaped. Its called WOW, just download the I WIN mod and you just have to use the Direction Buttons.

Rashgar.

Labyrrinth
04-24-2007, 02:15 PM
You're certainly a witty one... :rolleyes:

Zahrim
04-24-2007, 02:35 PM
I remember reading a post by a disabled gamer on TTH's forums asking a Sigil Dev if an autoface target option could be implemented. The Dev said he would "look into it" but I've not read anything on it since.

Hopefully a request from a disabled gamer, asking for an option to allow him/her to play the game, would be looked into with a bit more effort and timing.

MMO's that are less twitch based seem to be an ideal choice for gamers that are unable to use both hands. With macro-ability and hotbars controlling actions.

Thanks for the link Labyrrinth.

Rashgar
04-24-2007, 02:44 PM
I have sympathy for people that are Handicapped. However I also think that making everything 100% accessable for the Handicapped is a ploy of the Political correct crowd.

I have no doubt that alot of folks with parkinsons are smart enough to be brain surgeons. But it is not something they do or try to demand as a right to do.

Making it so people dont have to struggle in life at all to achieve goals is the reason gaming is in the state that its in now. Everyone will use the I WIN button all the time. People that dont need to use the I WIN button will use the button and the other game mechanics to be even more dominate.

Whats next? Demand that everyone have the ability to two or three box even though its just a matter of pushing a macro on another computer. Or hitting Alt-Tab?

The struggle to be the best is what makes man strong. Making everything equal for 100% of the population will result in stagnation. The strong and the cunning will use the tools availible to dominate.

Rashgar.

Solymnar
04-24-2007, 04:22 PM
Its a difficult balance to strike. While accesiblity is a good thing by itself if it castrates the play mechanics it can make the game less fun.

I look at it like a piano. Most certainly you can play one handed, in fact any simple melody can be done with one hand. But that's simply not as enjoyable as playing with two hands.

Now say you want one handed (we'll say right hand) people to be able to play a two hand piece. You've got a few options:

1) Give them the option to "build" left hand macros and add in a few extra functions to fully flesh it out and fit different parts of the song thus never playing it perfectly but usually good enough to be functional. They can't have AI built into it but can still get relatively complex. This still will tend to favor a two handed person but doesn't bar a one hander from playing.

2) Have left hand functions taken care of automatically with minimal user intervention. Works but kills some options for customization and uniqueness, makes it considerably less enjoyable for someone who wants to play with their left hand.

3) Dumb down the songs so one hand can play the whole peice with a little difficulty and two hands make it increadibly easy. Can make it frustrating for one handed people and boring for two handed people.

At the end of the day the two handed person just wants to play the damn song on a piano as it is. So the question is, how far do you take making the piano accessable at the expense of diminishing the experience of the two handed person?

For me, trying to fleshout making buttons and complex macros in as user friendly ways as possible and having open swaping of hot keys for practically every type of movement and interaction with some extra tageting/camera functions built in is about as far as you can go before you start penalizing the experience for non-disabled. After VG has a lot of its more major bugs fixed I would hope that they implement these but with their limited resources I'm not about to hold my breath either. The macro creation as it currently stants is OK but simply not good enough and there isn't things like binding camera to target (which was already mentioned) etc. How hard is it to fully flesh things out so a disabled person can play enjoyably? No clue.

Dumbing down the game or stripping away options that may be too difficult to use is not a good solution. But I think most of us could agree on that anyway.

That said, a one handed person can still try to play the piano, but they would possibly get much more out of playing a trumpet.

Its a sensetive issue for a lot of people to be sure, but there are good and bad ways to go about it and it has to start with the realization that no matter how smart and capable you are if you are unable to transmit those thoughts into functional actions you will be limited in some way shape size or form compared to someone who can.

I don't play FPSes online, I have a head for strategy, not insane reflexes like some of the people I've run across that ritualistically turn me into to cannon fodder, I'm not terrible but I simply am not on par with them. I realize this, I don't get mad at the game for catering to people with better reaction time than myself, I play something else.

Always good to take a few steps back and look at a situation for what it is. And increasing awareness of disabled people is never a bad thing. ;)

Malleable
04-24-2007, 04:30 PM
I have sympathy for people that are Handicapped. However I also think that making everything 100% accessable for the Handicapped is a ploy of the Political correct crowd.

I have no doubt that alot of folks with parkinsons are smart enough to be brain surgeons. But it is not something they do or try to demand as a right to do.

Making it so people dont have to struggle in life at all to achieve goals is the reason gaming is in the state that its in now. Everyone will use the I WIN button all the time. People that dont need to use the I WIN button will use the button and the other game mechanics to be even more dominate.

Whats next? Demand that everyone have the ability to two or three box even though its just a matter of pushing a macro on another computer. Or hitting Alt-Tab?

The struggle to be the best is what makes man strong. Making everything equal for 100% of the population will result in stagnation. The strong and the cunning will use the tools availible to dominate.

Rashgar.


So 'everyone' will use the I WIN button? So you would use it yourself?

If you would, then why do you care? If you wouldn't, why would you care?

You talk as if this game is some kind of reality for you. Like its a competition. And equating 'struggle in life' to the current state of MMORPGs? Wow.

If you don't want to use this magical button, then don't use it. Simple as that.

And you talk about the strong and cunning dominating, as if its a good thing. But putting in this I WIN button will make people 'even more dominate'. Then you contradict yourself by saying "Making everything equal for 100% of the population..." Which is it?
If its the former, what's the difference? You get to be 'even more dominate' and the handicapped people actually get to play the game.

Mal

Solymnar
04-24-2007, 04:52 PM
So 'everyone' will use the I WIN button? So you would use it yourself?

If you would, then why do you care? If you wouldn't, why would you care?

If you don't want to use this magical button, then don't use it. Simple as that.



Its not that cut and dried mal and I suspect you know that. And while rash could have phrased things better his concerns are still valid.

He doesn't want "automatic" accesability options added in that are so functional that they are superior to playing the game "manually".

He is concerned that if this happens then for the sake of human nature and competetiveness people will use the "automatic" options regardless of if they need them because they are a superior solution, this is consistantly proven to be exactly what happens.

If that happens then you have now effectively dumbed down the play for a non-disabled person who will feel compelled to use the "automatic" options.

An extreme example would be to take a macro programmed into a FPS that will instantly zero in and track an opponent allowing you to simply open fire. You will easily crush most people who don't use this macro, so they all start using it too. Now everyone is no longer manually targeting a thing and is simply hitting the fire button periodically, which is considerably less fun.

Its not black and white, and deciding where to draw the line between what helps accesability and what destroys gameplay is a both touchy and difficult to qualify.

Ganter
04-24-2007, 05:02 PM
I have sympathy for people that are Handicapped. However I also think that making everything 100% accessable for the Handicapped is a ploy of the Political correct crowd.

I have no doubt that alot of folks with parkinsons are smart enough to be brain surgeons. But it is not something they do or try to demand as a right to do.

Making it so people dont have to struggle in life at all to achieve goals is the reason gaming is in the state that its in now. Everyone will use the I WIN button all the time. People that dont need to use the I WIN button will use the button and the other game mechanics to be even more dominate.

Whats next? Demand that everyone have the ability to two or three box even though its just a matter of pushing a macro on another computer. Or hitting Alt-Tab?

The struggle to be the best is what makes man strong. Making everything equal for 100% of the population will result in stagnation. The strong and the cunning will use the tools availible to dominate.

Rashgar.


We are talking about a video game. Just because you have a problem with the PC crowd doesnt mean that a better effort can't be made for handicapped people to play video games. Your other scenarios should have no impact on that.

fatsuprman
04-24-2007, 05:08 PM
Unfortunatly this game is built in SARCASM ++. I find the use of CTRL+0+ etc etc etc to be stupid, no game company would use that and they don't, they try to make interaction between the player and game as easy as possible.

Some games aren't for everyone, Counter Strike wouldn't be good for someone with CTS. An MMORPG with its cool down timer and so on makes it easier.

There are a few things game companies could do, for example Sigil could make it easier to see quest icons on the NPCS. Currently they are in colour, describing difficulty. which is no use to a Colour blind person.

Kilrith
04-24-2007, 05:14 PM
There is a Game for the Handicaped. Its called WOW, just download the I WIN mod and you just have to use the Direction Buttons.

Rashgar.

Anyone else tired of everyone jumping on the "I hate World of Warcraft" bandwagon? Seriously...enough everyone. We get it, you think World of Warcraft is for idiots/handicapped (mentally or otherwise)/etc. I disagree, but these constantly insulting posts are really just getting old.

Napolleon
04-25-2007, 12:35 AM
There is a Game for the Handicaped. Its called WOW, just download the I WIN mod and you just have to use the Direction Buttons.

Rashgar.

haha omg you are my new best friend, clever!

GnomerBreltik
04-25-2007, 01:31 AM
Unfortunatly this game is built in SARCASM ++. I find the use of CTRL+0+ etc etc etc to be stupid, no game company would use that and they don't, they try to make interaction between the player and game as easy as possible.

Some games aren't for everyone, Counter Strike wouldn't be good for someone with CTS. An MMORPG with its cool down timer and so on makes it easier.

There are a few things game companies could do, for example Sigil could make it easier to see quest icons on the NPCS. Currently they are in colour, describing difficulty. which is no use to a Colour blind person.

I am colorblind myself and thought barney the 'purple' dinosaur looks as red as an apple to me, I get over it and realise that although it sucks, I am not the norm so I deal with it as I do.

greymain
04-25-2007, 04:28 AM
Talking as one who plays one handed. Games like Vanguard are easy to play using just a mouse with extra programmable buttons. This works because as a rule mobs fight toe to toe not ducking and diving about. I find PvP impossible as i cannot move and fight at the same time. All that is needed to cater for players such as I is to retain solo content so that I can take my time taking them out. I can do as well as anyone in groups but find them exhausting after an hour or two. Also that players continue to treat players with difficulties with understanding. I have never encountered prejudice except on the boards,

dmodert66
04-25-2007, 05:09 AM
I'm happy they are doing this...I remember several games in developement where on the forums, disabled gamers asked. They got very little response (from the devs). This may aid in there plight!

And to the "WOW" guy...That was a moronic thing to post. It offended me personally. (And I don't even like WOW)...It's more that you trashed it in a thread about progress for disabled gamers...

nuandy
04-25-2007, 05:28 AM
There is a Game for the Handicaped. Its called WOW, just download the I WIN mod and you just have to use the Direction Buttons.

Rashgar.

Then i suggest you do just that you have the mentle age of a dead rat and i found you comment offensicw being in a wheelchair myself

With really nice people like you it ia no wonder the BG community has such a bad rep

Zarthaine
05-06-2007, 10:56 AM
I have sympathy for people that are Handicapped. However I also think that making everything 100% accessable for the Handicapped is a ploy of the Political correct crowd.

I have no doubt that alot of folks with parkinsons are smart enough to be brain surgeons. But it is not something they do or try to demand as a right to do.

Making it so people dont have to struggle in life at all to achieve goals is the reason gaming is in the state that its in now. Everyone will use the I WIN button all the time. People that dont need to use the I WIN button will use the button and the other game mechanics to be even more dominate.

Whats next? Demand that everyone have the ability to two or three box even though its just a matter of pushing a macro on another computer. Or hitting Alt-Tab?

The struggle to be the best is what makes man strong. Making everything equal for 100% of the population will result in stagnation. The strong and the cunning will use the tools availible to dominate.

Rashgar.

It's typical of the attitude of some that play the game and visit the boards here. You really think that playing an online game is some sort of a huge accomplishment.

Another shocker for you, it's quite easy to two box and three box, maybe you just find single boxing too challenging.

Strong? Cunning? Do you really think that your playing a game makes you strong and cunning? How very sad your life must be.

Some of my best friends that I made in online games are handicapped and play extremely well. I'm for anything that would benefit their further enjoyment of the game.

Funny thing is, we have handicap ramps, required accessibility and parking all because we realize that they deserve the same advantages we take for granted every day. Yet somehow, you find it compelling to draw a line in a game because you feel that requires cunning skills.

I'll take my chances with a person that can think things through before I take my chances with a "ubah zerger" any day.