Item Power Rescale - Test Build 1824...

[Dulen]

From Test Build 1824
-Item Power Rescale - Items have undergone some power rescaling. This was to address problems related to item usefulness -- these adjustments will make all higher-level items (post level 20) in Vanguard more viable for use.

When comparing the “goodness” of items of different rarity the disparity between the rarity levels became much too large at higher levels. This problem had many far-reaching repercussions. As a resolution, we have increased the amount of points (“goodness”) on common, uncommon and rare items significantly. This power increase scales up from level 20 where there is no change to level 50 where there is the largest change. Commons will get the largest increase, followed by uncommons and then rares. Heroics will not receive an increase. Also, in order to support our new item scale high-level legendary items have had a very small reduction in power.

So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

[Shihan]

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

Actually, heroics aren't changing.

Only the legendaries are receiving a small decrease in power to stay on scale.

Can you honestly say you don't expect changes like these in the first 6 months of any MMO? Naive much?

[Bulldog]

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

:mad:

I don't even know what to say.

Actually, heroics aren't changing.

Only the legendaries are receiving a small decrease in power to stay on scale.

Can you honestly say you don't expect changes like these in the first 6 months of any MMO? Naive much?

If your going to insult the guy at least comprehend what his opinion is, he never said heroics were being changed. Many people camped quested heroics/legendaries due to them..well being Heroic and Legendary stats. Now Yellows will be closer, possibly negating the need for many of them.

[Vauhs]

bleh~

[Eleyn]

:mad:

I don't even know what to say.

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the current game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right? Without this change, they might as well just make Rare the new common, Heroic the new uncommon, and Legendary the new rare, because that is how the current game looks with regards to 'rarity'.

[Shihan]

:mad:

I don't even know what to say.



If your going to insult the guy at least comprehend what his opinion is, he never said heroics were being changed. Many people camped quested heroics/legendaries due to them..well being Heroic and Legendary stats. Now Yellows will be closer, possibly negating the need for many of them.

Well, maybe in your eyes. When I camp something that is heroic/legendary, I do it because they are better than the rest. The margin of how much better is relative, of course. So they lessened the gap a bit, balancing ( read: shit ) happens. Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.

I have quite a few pieces of heroic/legendary. I guess I also don't live my life for the game and I can see them tweaking major aspects of the game for the next few months so it's not that big of a deal to me.

To each his own.

[Bulldog]

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right?

Oh, crafters...

Psst..there is another tier of items for Raid bosses.

Common and Uncommon fill places untill you can quest/adventure/buy an item to replace it.

If you think the infinium/pantheon items are comparable to level 50+ heroics you've got a lot more to see in VG, lots of neat drops and quest items. The only thing you'd use them for are the effects(healers or the new H2H weapon) to help keep a tank up.

Well, maybe in your eyes. When I camp something that is heroic/legendary, I do it because they are better than the rest. The margin of how much better is relative, of course. So they lessened the gap a bit, balancing ( read: shit ) happens. Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.

I have quite a few pieces of heroic/legendary. I guess I also don't live my life for the game and I can see them tweaking major aspects of the game for the next few months so it's not that big of a deal to me.

To each his own.

Are you able to post without an insult if someone disagrees with you?

[Shihan]

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the current game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right? Without this change, they might as well just make Rare the new common, Heroic the new uncommon, and Legendary the new rare, because that is how the current game looks with regards to 'rarity'.

Ah yes, logic!! Well said. :)

[grape]

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

[Vauhs]

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

agree

[Ganter]

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

Do you like this game?

[Eleyn]

Common and Uncommon fill places untill you can quest/adventure/buy an item to replace it.


They did. Until about level 30, like I said - by then, most players have managed to find a yellow drop that suits them for most slots, at which point, under the current system (which they are changing because of this very problem!), a green or blue drop will never be an upgrade for them again. A yellow level 25 drop is superior to a green level 50 drop, so anyone with a yellow piece of armor of any tier in a given slot will never have use for a green or blue again. Why even have greens or blues in the game? For me to decon? If so, okay..


If you think the infinium/pantheon items are comparable to level 50+ heroics you've got a lot more to see in VG, lots of neat drops and quest items. The only thing you'd use them for are the effects(healers or the new H2H weapon) to help keep a tank up.


Please note I did say Heroic, not Legendary. Legendaries do, yes, have neat effects that do all sorts of things, but heroics are pretty straightforward from what I've seen. Rare, of course, doesn't even begin to compare.. show me a yellow drop from a level 50+ 6 dot named that compares with, I dunno, the CIS weapons? That you can get at level 25ish? I don't think you can. That's horribly broken.

Go look at curse-gaming.. The lowest level weapon available which beats, let's say, Insirion, is that level 53 maul from Rhaz. Huh? Yeah, you need 20 levels on a legendary item to even begin to compare. That's a heroic. No rare weapon in the game beats a legendary weapon of any level, even the lowbie CIS weapons, ever, period.

[Renfail]

Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.





So true!

We were discussing this in Ventrilo yesterday morning...how the disparity between levels of goodness = a bad thing for the game overall, and we were suggesting ways they could make it better, and then we see the patch notes, and it was glorious :)

Heroic gear is still going to be better, and legendary will still be better than that. But stuff is DEFINETELY overpowered, and I'm glad to see things changing.

Let's face it. Legendaries are supposed to be just that. LEGENDARY! Yet EVERY character I see past level 35 has 2-3 Legendary items. What's so legendary when EVERYONE has them? So, fine...legendaries just mean that you had to spend a little more time to get than heroics, and heroics take just a little more time than rares....and for that little bit of extra time and effort you get some better stats....but not OVERLYPOWERING better, as they have been in the past. Now, things are moving closer to balanced and I, for one, am insanely happy to see this change moving forward.

Personally, I don't want to see raid drops even come close to being better than what you get from single-man dungeons. I would love to see raids dropping patterns, components, maybe the base armor pieces, but all combinable things that you will then funnel through your diplomats and crafters to obtain your final piece....which will be something uber enough to blow everything else out of the water. But regardless, the change in disparity levels was NEEDED to bring things closer to balance. People can still stroke their e-peen that they have their precious heroic/legendary items...they just won't be so overpoweringly more powerful than someone else's rare. And that is a good thing.

[Eleyn]

So true!

We were discussing this in Ventrilo yesterday morning...how the disparity between levels of goodness = a bad thing for the game overall, and we were suggesting ways they could make it better, and then we see the patch notes, and it was glorious :)



Aye, my guild had the same discussion a month or so ago.. looking at the Legendary items out there, and the progression of "itemization points" per level and rarity tier, we saw that there was a huge multiplier attached to an item's tier, and a relatively small scale attached to an item's level. It was pretty obvious that it really didn't matter what level gear you had (within reason) as long as it was the correct tier - so a level 35 heroic was always going to beat a level 50 rare.

We knew it would be changed, I mean, it had to be. What were raid items going to look like? A raid-equipped warrior doing as much damage on autoattack with his raid weapon as a 6-man group of rogues with heroics? :)

[Bulldog]

show me a yellow drop from a level 50+ 6 dot named that compares with, I dunno, the CIS weapons? That you can get at level 25ish? I don't think you can. That's horribly broken.

.

Hold on, let me medicate my injured E-peen(i know you didn't say that, but I thought it was funny. Tells me a lot about the people in this thread). :D

Off the top of my head answering your question specifically. The Yellow 1 handed swords from Majordomo and the Divided dude were both Much superior to the infinium 1 handed sword...though they are both now heroics and the gap is even bigger.:confused:

Let me think...Well there are many items better than the infinium gear that are only rares at 50. I just did a search by level 50-50, Rare. Every item on there beats an infinium weapon(cept staves..but that's a different story and discussion)

I understand what you mean though. I guess it would depend. I think a legendary at say 40, should be better than any level 50 rare.

And actually, I did upgrade 37 heroic legs to 53 rare legs.

[Eleyn]

I understand what you mean though. I guess it would depend. I think a legendary at say 40, should be better than any level 50 rare.

Aye, I mean Vanguard doesn't have many levels - only 50. 10 more levels is alot in this game, and 20 is almost half of the entire leveling spectrum! To be able to pick up something near the very beginning of your career (mid 20s), that will last you to the end-game just "feels" wrong to me.

[akuthia]

hey, this oughta give crafted gear no one buys a boost too

[Shihan]

Are you able to post without an insult if someone disagrees with you?

Of course I am. Though, if the post contains "My e-peen is hurting now because my uber gear is now not quite as good as everyone elses." then I sometimes feel the need to post that balance is good for a game.

Sure, I'll admit that I sometimes lack tact. That's why I don't work in a PR role. You surely get the point I'm conveying though.

This change NEEDED to happen. To those who didn't see the HUGE disparity in gear tiers prior to this change were simply naive. BTW, as someone earlier pointed out, it would be one thing if the heroics / legendaries were actually hard to get. They are a joke to get. Some of them require a lot of faction work, sure That only covers a few slots. I know personally that a LOT of the best gear is dropped or rewarded from quests that can be done in less than a day. How does that make it heroic or legendary? They're doing a good thing here bringing the tiers closer together.

[Renfail]

We knew it would be changed, I mean, it had to be. What were raid items going to look like? A raid-equipped warrior doing as much damage on autoattack with his raid weapon as a 6-man group of rogues with heroics? :)

That was a point I was trying to make to people in the Rahz thread over in Defensive fighter forums yesterday. If they would have kept it at its current progression, raid drops would have been FORCED into being SO much better than the overpowered heroics that they literally would have turned people into god-like avatars, and that's BAD for the game. When your raid gear trivializes the normal game content, ESPECIALLY in a game where the PRIMARY content of the game is single-group content, that is a BAD thing! God-like raid weapons lead down a road that NO smart gamer wants to see again.

[sweetdigs]

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

I personally think it's a good move. Although I think that legendary and heroic gear is FAR too common in the game. They need about 3 more tiers of gear above legendary and need to make those as rare as legendary and heroic SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

[Eleyn]

hey, this oughta give crafted gear no one buys a boost too

Yes, maybe Uncommon will serve it's purpose, which is as Ferrum said, to fill in slots that haven't received an appropriate rare/heroic/legendary piece yet. Right now greens and blues are just decon fodder.

[Meradin]

Legendary will still be better and therefore still be worth the effort. They just are horribly overpowered. And some aren't even soulbound. That's not exactly balanced in the slightest.

I personally would've thought that legendary would be raid-drop only. Or quested items through a raid requirement (Do some long quest, kill 3 big bad dragons, get your epic). They drop like candy for the rarity they are supposed to be.

[Renfail]

I personally would've thought that legendary would be raid-drop only. Or quested items through a raid requirement (Do some long quest, kill 3 big bad dragons, get your epic). They drop like candy for the rarity they are supposed to be.


Heroics also, in terms of dropping like candy for the rarity they are supposed to be.

this is a GOOD change coming down.

[Renfail]

I personally think it's a good move. Although I think that legendary and heroic gear is FAR too common in the game. They need about 3 more tiers of gear above legendary and need to make those as rare as legendary and heroic SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

There are 2 more tiers that I know of currently. ANd let's hope to hell and back they remain rare as ****

[Eleyn]

Heroics also, in terms of dropping like candy for the rarity they are supposed to be.

this is a GOOD change coming down.

It's a fine line to tread.

Everyone likes to feel rewarded. It's a good feeling. I know when I did the Pantheon quests, I got a huge rush out of doing the final fight at even-con (our group was level 31-32), figuring it out (we wiped once) and finally beating it with no outside information or assistance whatsoever - and then recieving a heroic piece each for our troubles (one of us got a legendary dagger they couldn't use, but eh).

Arguably, we only spent 6-8 hours in total working through the quest lines and figuring out what to do, and for that we caused 6 soulbound heroic drops to enter the world.. but it felt good. *shrug*

So, I don't know. In 38 levels of adventuring (I am a level 50 crafter as well, so I know about the risk-versus-reward from that sphere of gameplay - it's actually lower than the adventuring sphere, as much as adventurers love to complain about crafters), our static group has only received 1 dropped heroic piece from a named NPC. We don't sit around and farm named camps, but should that be the only rewarding avenue of gameplay?

Sorry to derail, I just get a bit pensive when I hear people state things about game balance - items 'dropping too much', 'dropping too little', or making judgments on such things when I don't think any of us know what the developers really have in mind.

[Eleyn]

There are 2 more tiers that I know of currently. ANd let's hope to hell and back they remain rare as ****

Well, if it's anything like say EQ1/EQ2, the top tier is basically 'non-existant'.. Artifact level items aren't necessarily powerful, but rather unique (per server) and given out for quest events, server firsts on certain content, etc. They are rare, nothing you or I can aspire to except by luck and being in the right place at the right time :)

Relic, the tier below Artifact, seems to me to be what we'll perhaps see as the reward from (the) end-game "epic" quest line(s) .. not something that will drop, but something that will be lengthily quested for, likely involving all three spheres of gameplay, and a combination of group and raid content, to achieve the 'epic' for one's class.

I don't see relic as being very rare, simply by virtue of the fact that every level 50 player will want to do whatever quest rewards it :) Same reason that Legendary items aren't rare currently - it's not that the quests aren't long and drawn out, they are, but people will do them in order to show everyone how much better they are than everyone else. That's what these games are all about, isn't it? :)

[rhagz]

Aye, I mean Vanguard doesn't have many levels - only 50. 10 more levels is alot in this game, and 20 is almost half of the entire leveling spectrum! To be able to pick up something near the very beginning of your career (mid 20s), that will last you to the end-game just "feels" wrong to me.

Isn't that what people said they wanted? To get an item and use for it a long time, to form some sort of virtual emotional bond to their items instead of replacing them every few levels? Something about 'that's how it was in original EQ' or something right?

[bigdogchris]

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own)I agree that Legendary should of been saved for raid gear. Heroic is FINE for boss mob drops.

Where did I read where they said that across the board they are making items more useful? Simply increasing stats isn't going to make them more useful unless the content is tuned around needed the improved stats, right?

[Eleyn]

Isn't that what people said they wanted? To get an item and use for it a long time, to form some sort of virtual emotional bond to their items instead of replacing them every few levels? Something about 'that's how it was in original EQ' or something right?

Hold me, I think I'm getting all teary eyed! :)

I assume that was sarcasm :) Er.. I hope it was.. :p

[Eleyn]

I agree that Legendary should of been saved for raid gear. Heroic is FINE for boss mob drops.

Where did I read where they said that across the board they are making items more useful? Simply increasing stats isn't going to make them more useful unless the content is tuned around needed the improved stats, right?

They are boosting common alot, uncommon some, rare a bit, heroic is remaining as-is, and Legendary is getting a small nerf.

[rhagz]

Hold me, I think I'm getting all teary eyed! :)

I assume that was sarcasm :) Er.. I hope it was.. :p

Sadly it wasn't. Many of the people who thought this game would be EQ1 in a new world desired exactly that. Now that they seem to have it, they complain about it. Makes no sense to me.

[Lauraliane]

I don't agree with people who said Legendary are "too common", I am a level 36 sorcerer myself and I have ONE legendary item which is the pantheon staff.

I managed to get it after 2 days with my guild in this zone and because we were LUCKY enough to get it.
I am trying atm to get my second legendary item which is the legendary focus from wardship, in order to get it, I have to farm 13K faction, 10 named in two different dungeons, and 6 components that are REALLY hard to get (hours and hours of camping and farming)
I don't think it could be considered as "too common". Some devs stated about the legendary 2 handed sword from pantheon that their was around 15 instance of the sword per server in average. Again, I don't think it can be considered as "too common".
So I don't know what game you are playing, but NOT every lvl 35 characters got 2 or 3 legendary items, I know a LOT of 40+ characters who got NONE.

Legendary items are all really really hard and time consuming to get, and no you won't wear CiS weapons at level 50, it is quickly beaten by 35+ Rare weapons. Only the caster staff might be the "exception", but as someone stated, it is a problem by itself and should not be used as a reference.

Anyway, as of today lot of people are complaining about grinding, time consuming, faction, etc in VG, but some are still doing it, because those legendary items are at the end.
It is an extremely bad move from sigil to nerf those legendary items. Some people will complain, some people will quit, cause today people can quit an MMO for a few details, it is just the "too much" syndrom, and for a lot of customers today, VG is close to reach this "too much". Nerfing the extremely hard to get reward which most of them are obviously on the most vanguard devotee char is an extremely bad idea and could bring some people to quit the game.

They shouldn't touch the legendary, they are fine as it is cause they are HARD to get and seriously NOT everyone will be able to provide the effort to get them.But yes upgrading the common and uncommon is not a bad move.
It will allow the people who didn't make the efforts or didn't have the luck to get heroic/legendary and are mostly stuffed with green/blue and a few rare items to still be viable in groups/raids situation.

[Shihan]

I don't agree with people who said Legendary are "too common", I am a level 36 sorcerer myself and I have ONE legendary item which is the pantheon staff.

I managed to get it after 2 days with my guild in this zone and because we were LUCKY enough to get it.
I am trying atm to get my second legendary item which is the legendary focus from wardship, in order to get it, I have to farm 13K faction, 10 named in two different dungeons, and 6 components that are REALLY hard to get (hours and hours of camping and farming)
I don't think it could be considered as "too common". Some devs stated about the legendary 2 handed sword from pantheon that their was around 15 instance of the sword per server in average. Again, I don't think it can be considered as "too common".
So I don't know what game you are playing, but NOT every lvl 35 characters got 2 or 3 legendary items, I know a LOT of 40+ characters who got NONE.

Legendary items are all really really hard and time consuming to get, and no you won't wear CiS weapons at level 50, it is quickly beaten by 35+ Rare weapons. Only the caster staff might be the "exception", but as someone stated, it is a problem by itself and should not be used as a reference.

Anyway, as of today lot of people are complaining about grinding, time consuming, faction, etc in VG, but some are still doing it, because those legendary items are at the end.
It is an extremely bad move from sigil to nerf those legendary items. Some people will complain, some people will quit, cause today people can quit an MMO for a few details, it is just the "too much" syndrom, and for a lot of customers today, VG is close to reach this "too much". Nerfing the extremely hard to get reward which most of them are obviously on the most vanguard devotee char is an extremely bad idea and could bring some people to quit the game.

They shouldn't touch the legendary, they are fine as it is cause they are HARD to get and seriously NOT everyone will be able to provide the effort to get them.But yes upgrading the common and uncommon is not a bad move.
It will allow the people who didn't make the efforts or didn't have the luck to get heroic/legendary and are mostly stuffed with green/blue and a few rare items to still be viable in groups/raids situation.

While I agree with you that it sucks for those w/ Legendary to eat a nerf... it will be an overall plus to the game. If items are now on a scale and a well-maintained points system then I think we'll see items more in-line w/ each other rather than 'Hey, X's staff is better than mine!' when they shouldn't be.

Granted, this is based off of a bit of speculation on our part, but if my thinking is in line w/ their thinking, then as I said, it will be an overall benefit to the big picture.

[Vithar]

There's nothing "legendary" about grinding 1000 coins or 500 slivers.

Just my 2 cent :D

[Shihan]

There's nothing "legendary" about grinding 1000 coins or 500 slivers.

Just my 2 cent :D

Amen.

[Renfail]

There's nothing "legendary" about grinding 1000 coins or 500 slivers.

Just my 2 cent :D

A-****ing-men.

[Spatzimaus`]

I have a Bard. When she was level 20, she was wearing a Common (green) set of armor, with only a couple Uncommon (blue) minor pieces (like boots).

Then, I was banking in Tursh when a crafter handed me a free level 9 Rare (yellow) tunic he had made while practicing. Its Defense (111) was 50% higher than my Common tunic, although it only gave a couple tiny bonuses. More importantly, as a level 9 rare, its EE cost was nonexistent. A few levels later, I finished the Zihurr Invasion quest line and got a great orange soulbound tunic... at which point I sent the yellow one to an alt (which she could use right away!).

It's just far too big of a gap. Once you've got rares and heroics, you'll never use a single Common again. And then what's the point?

[bigdogchris]

They are boosting common alot, uncommon some, rare a bit, heroic is remaining as-is, and Legendary is getting a small nerf.I was more referring to melee classes worrying about a piece of gear other than weapons.

[Polkadots]

Just to give an example of how the items will change with the added rating system is the following, thanks to our class lead Scarcius:

Based on a level 50 character -

Transfused Xenotlite Pantaloons - Level 44 Heroic

Old (current):
+2 Spell Damage
+2 Critical Spell Hit Chance

New:
+44 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+53 Spell Damage Rating

Now compared to level 52 Pantaloons of Chaos (heroic; all I could find close)

Old (current):
+1 Spell Accuracy
+2 Spell Damage

New:
+93 Spell Damage Rating
+72 Spell Accuracy Rating

As you can see level matters a lot now. You're going to have to upgrade.

To give an example of how bad it gets lets check out the level 28 Yanvil pre and post patch.

Old:
+1 Spell Accuracy
+1 Spell Damage
+1 Critical Spell Hit Chance

New:
+7 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+8 Spell Damage Rating
+12 Spell Accuracy Rating.

[Bulldog]

Just to give an example of how the items will change with the added rating system is the following, thanks to our class lead Scarcius:

Based on a level 50 character -

Transfused Xenotlite Pantaloons - Level 44 Heroic

Old (current):
+2 Spell Damage
+2 Critical Spell Hit Chance

New:
+44 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+53 Spell Damage Rating

Now compared to level 52 Pantaloons of Chaos (heroic; all I could find close)

Old (current):
+1 Spell Accuracy
+2 Spell Damage

New:
+93 Spell Damage Rating
+72 Spell Accuracy Rating

As you can see level matters a lot now. You're going to have to upgrade.

To give an example of how bad it gets lets check out the level 28 Yanvil pre and post patch.

Old:
+1 Spell Accuracy
+1 Spell Damage
+1 Critical Spell Hit Chance

New:
+7 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+8 Spell Damage Rating
+12 Spell Accuracy Rating.

Neat, what do the numbers stand for exactly?

[Polkadots]

Example - Item xxx (current) = 10 int, 5 wis, 1% spell damage, level 25 item

See, now a days an item gives 1% spell damage at level 50 even if its a level 25 item. The rating system will make items scale properly with level.

The following is just guess work, it has no representation on hard data:

Item xxx = 10 int, 5 wis, 25 spell damage rating, level 25 item

Lets just use a factor of 1 x level.

Before patch item xxx would grant 1% spell damage for a level 25 player or a level 50 player. After the patch the item will still grant 1% spell damage (25 rating) for a level 25 person. However, at level 50 the factor for 1% would be lvl x 1 = 50. So...

Before the patch item xxx still gave the level 50 person a 1% spell damage bonus. After the patch it will only grant the level 50 player a 0.5 % spell damage increase.

The numbers will be different, but thats the jist of it. Hope I explained it well its still early ><

EDIT - Here is an easier comparison.

Yanvil - level 28 item (current) -
+1 Spell Accuracy
+1 Spell Damage
+1 Critical Spell Hit Chance

Yanvil - level 28 item (post patch) -
+7 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+8 Spell Damage Rating
+12 Spell Accuracy Rating

Post patch; a level 50 staff with the same modifiers (currently said staff would be +1 SA, +1 SD, +1 CSHC) -
+72 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+44 Spell Damage Rating
+93 Spell Accuracy Rating
*****or something close, please dont interpret this as concrete****

Here is a link - http://www.vgnecro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1121&start=15

[rhagz]

So basically it's just like WoW? Cool.

[rinweth]

Wow... who could have seen this coming? :rolleyes:

*lowers his hand*

[Bhagpuss]

most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the current game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster

I do find these blase comments a bit rich!

At level 40 I don't have any Legendary items. I have, I believe, one heroic item. Of the rest, about half is Rare and the rest Uncommon. Until very recently I had some Common items in a couple of slots, and I am sure I will do so again.

I would infinitely prefer the freedom to roam, explore and enjoy myself, at the cost of having mostly blue and yellow gear rather than spend level after level in the same place doing the same thing to get orange or red. My character is done when it reaches 50th anyway until the level cap is changed or AAs are added and I will just move on to a different class/race and start over, so, for a non-raider, what would be the point of "gearing up"?

If Sigil want to give me a free power-boost by upgrading my gear, I am not going to complain, but I was more than happy with what I had.

[Shihan]

Wow... who could have seen this coming? :rolleyes:

*lowers his hand*

Well, this had to happen.

At 44, I'm still using my Yanvil. Now, once this change goes through, I will switch over to the Queen's Will ( 40-something heroic staff ) and I'll actually benefit from the upgrade. As it stands now, with the clicky effect + the % upgrades, it's just not worth it to upgrade.

[Lauraliane]

Example - Item xxx (current) = 10 int, 5 wis, 1% spell damage, level 25 item

See, now a days an item gives 1% spell damage at level 50 even if its a level 25 item. The rating system will make items scale properly with level.

The following is just guess work, it has no representation on hard data:

Item xxx = 10 int, 5 wis, 25 spell damage rating, level 25 item

Lets just use a factor of 1 x level.

Before patch item xxx would grant 1% spell damage for a level 25 player or a level 50 player. After the patch the item will still grant 1% spell damage (25 rating) for a level 25 person. However, at level 50 the factor for 1% would be lvl x 1 = 50. So...

Before the patch item xxx still gave the level 50 person a 1% spell damage bonus. After the patch it will only grant the level 50 player a 0.5 % spell damage increase.

The numbers will be different, but thats the jist of it. Hope I explained it well its still early ><

EDIT - Here is an easier comparison.

Yanvil - level 28 item (current) -
+1 Spell Accuracy
+1 Spell Damage
+1 Critical Spell Hit Chance

Yanvil - level 28 item (post patch) -
+7 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+8 Spell Damage Rating
+12 Spell Accuracy Rating

Post patch; a level 50 staff with the same modifiers (currently said staff would be +1 SA, +1 SD, +1 CSHC) -
+72 Critical Spell Hit Rating
+44 Spell Damage Rating
+93 Spell Accuracy Rating
*****or something close, please dont interpret this as concrete****

Here is a link - http://www.vgnecro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1121&start=15

Excuse me, but I fail to understand how this is exactly related to the item power patch msg which stated they added "more points to the common and uncommon items"
To me it looks like a casters itemization revamp which will only affects a few items at bests, since a LOT of items don't have +spell crit, +spell dmg and +spell accuracy.
So, not that the info isn't interesting, but how is it affecting the power of let's say a common longsword ? or 99% of the melee gear that doesn't have +crit. Of course they have the equivalent in melee +mitigation, +accuracy etc, but again it is quite rare and surely won't affect at all the 80% of the items that only got stats, ac and dps.
Also, the patch msg stated : Heroic items haven't changed. To me it seems they DO change if they are affected like that. But again is it only casters items?
Anyway, aren't we talking about 2 differents things here ?

- More points for the common and uncommon items, less points for legendary items

- casters itemization revamp or is it something like : changed the way +crit, +accuracy and +dmg work so they scale function of the level of the wearer ?

[Shihan]

Excuse me, but I fail to understand how this is exactly related to the item power patch msg which stated they added "more points to the common and uncommon items"
To me it looks like a casters itemization revamp which will only affects a few items at bests, since a LOT of items don't have +spell crit, +spell dmg and +spell accuracy.
So, not that the info isn't interesting, but how is it affecting the power of let's say a common longsword ? or 99% of the melee gear that doesn't have +crit. Of course they have the equivalent in melee +mitigation, +accuracy etc, but again it is quite rare and surely won't affect at all the 80% of the items that only got stats, ac and dps.
Also, the patch msg stated : Heroic items haven't changed. To me it seems they DO change if they are affected like that. But again is it only casters items?
Anyway, aren't we talking about 2 differents things here ?

- More points for the common and uncommon items, less points for legendary items

- casters itemization revamp or is it something like : changed the way +crit, +accuracy and +dmg work so they scale function of the level of the wearer ?

Polkadots was referring to the
- Bonuses on items that where previously represented as a percentage (2% crit chance) are no represented as a rating value. from the Test Server notes (http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/launchpad/updates_test.vm). You're talking about the item rescaling. Two seperate issues.

[Lauraliane]

Polkadots was referring to the
from the Test Server notes (http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/launchpad/updates_test.vm). You're talking about the item rescaling. Two seperate issues.

Ahhh I see, thanks, make sense now. This changes sounds good, even if we have no idea what those spell rating stand for. what is +7 spell rating especially ? Is it 1% still , for a wearer of what level ? since it is obviously not the rule the previous poster stated, it would make yanvil 1% spell dmg for a level 7 caster :D

Anyway, my point about the legendary item nerf, is that by doing this they are "nerfing" and making angry the most devoted player they have, those same players that makes the game "live" or "survive" today. Not a good move if you ask me...

[rhagz]

Ahhh I see, thanks, make sense now. This changes sounds good, even if we have no idea what those spell rating stand for. what is +7 spell rating especially ? Is it 1% still , for a wearer of what level ? since it is obviously not the rule the previous poster stated, it would make yanvil 1% spell dmg for a level 7 caster :D

It's going to be just like WoW.

You will need more rating per level to get 1%.

At level 1, you may get 1% crit per 5 rating, but at 50 you may need 20 rating to get 1% crit.

[Shihan]

It's going to be just like WoW.

You will need more rating per level to get 1%.

At level 1, you may get 1% crit per 5 rating, but at 50 you may need 20 rating to get 1% crit.

Yes, but it has nothing to do with WoW. It's a simple logical flaw they had to fix. A level 10 item with 2% spell damage ( if one existed :P ) was actually being used at level 50 because it scaled up well. Now it doesn't.

[Lauraliane]

It's going to be just like WoW.

You will need more rating per level to get 1%.

At level 1, you may get 1% crit per 5 rating, but at 50 you may need 20 rating to get 1% crit.

Yep, I understand, but I would really like to have "hard data", but I guess we can't expect much in a game that don't even tell us what the proc on a weapon, or the equiped effect of an armor do ;)

[PerritoBites]

Yay more choices for gear!

[kekerot]

ROFL they had to copy WoW again. hahahahahhahahahahah
that system sucks donkey nuts. this game is going down the shitter. now they want to nerf lengedaries too? if my bow gets nerfed after weeks of work getting i'll cancel my sub

[Shihan]

ROFL they had to copy WoW again. hahahahahhahahahahah
that system sucks donkey nuts. this game is going down the shitter. now they want to nerf lengedaries too? if my bow gets nerfed after weeks of work getting i'll cancel my sub

How many times must we explain why it was needed?

Ya know what... nevermind. Drop your stuff off in the mail on your way out.

[kekerot]

How many times must we explain why it was needed?

Ya know what... nevermind. Drop your stuff off in the mail on your way out.

so why have the lengendary quests in the game at all? for the fun of it? grinding 3 or 4 weeks of rep and collecting hundreds of random drops from grey mobs is fun?

[Shihan]

so why have the lengendary quests in the game at all? for the fun of it? grinding 3 or 4 weeks of rep and collecting hundreds of random drops from grey mobs is fun?

The 'nerfs' will be very minor.

The 'nerfs' are necessary to bring everything on to a scale for future item creation to be in balance.

As easy as quite a few of the Legendary items are to get, they are overpowered. Granted, some take a lot of work. Some, however, can be gotten in under a day easily.

[Snowman]

How many times must we explain why it was needed?

Ya know what... nevermind. Drop your stuff off in the mail on your way out.

Well said!

Its not worth arguing with him, he clearly doesnt understand, dont throw your silk purse to swine.

To continue with my comments on the subject.

This re-scaling makes perfect sense!.. its one of those inspirational changes which will make vanguard alot more enjoyable at the higher levels and keep people interested in obtaining new equipment.

Recently there have been alot of good changes like this which will need more testing and balancing but ultimatley proves its wait in gold (get it? - nvm ;) )

I feel NO sypmathy for those who spent hours upon hours waiting or farming or grinding or whatever it is you do to get these legendary weapons! - Its been clear for months now that high end VG is still under heavy development, I've always said to people NOT to level much past 30 for this very reason!

All that time you spent obtaining your legendary mop & bucket would have been time 1000% better spent leveling another character, or exploring, or trying another sphere.. anything but sitting there with greedy eyes wide shut!

I have 4 or 5 characters now all between 15 - and 25, all with varying levels in diplimacy, and other such acheivments across telon! and by the time things have settled down at 30+ I intend on having quite a few more :)

The lamp which burns twice as bright burns for half as long!

[Shihan]

Well said!

Its not worth arguing with him, he clearly doesnt understand, dont throw your silk purse to swine.

To continue with my comments on the subject.

This re-scaling makes perfect sense!.. its one of those inspirational changes which will make vanguard alot more enjoyable at the higher levels and keep people interested in obtaining new equipment.

Recently there have been alot of good changes like this which will need more testing and balancing but ultimatley proves its wait in gold (get it? - nvm ;) )

I feel NO sypmathy for those who spent hours upon hours waiting or farming or grinding or whatever it is you do to get these legendary weapons! - Its been clear for months now that high end VG is still under heavy development, I've always said to people NOT to level much past 30 for this very reason!

All that time you spent obtaining your legendary mop & bucket would have been time 1000% better spent leveling another character, or exploring, or trying another sphere.. anything but sitting there with greedy eyes wide shut!

I have 4 or 5 characters now all between 15 - and 25, all with varying levels in diplimacy, and other such acheivments across telon! and by the time things have settled down at 30+ I intend on having quite a few more :)

The lamp which burns twice as bright burns for half as long!



Well, I wouldn't go as far as to insult the guy. ;) I was just tired of explaining it. I hold no ill will towards him. P

As far as no content past level 30... I don't agree with that. There are a few places post 30 that are ( what I would call ) finished. Pantheon of the Ancients is a prime example. Graystone is another ( really not that bad in comparison to many other zones ).

I do, however, pity those that got the legendary MoP weapons. His bow is one example. It's unfair to those that got those because they had to put in weeks of time. Some of the easier legendary quests can be finished in a day or two. Yet the same overpoweredness appears. MoP weapons should keep their stats ( REALLY a pain to get ). Most of the others... should be nerfed.

Even still though... the nerf as a whole was needed to fill in the gaps of equipment tiers.

[ifx]

I love this. I'm going to go masterbate now. Seriously. But before I get sticky I just want to say to those of you who are crying about your godly weapons being made slightly less godly... if it was still better than a rare you would have done the quest just the same. Even if it was only heroic you still would've completed the quest so stop crying or just quit the game. If everyone who claims they're going to quit on here actually did for once the forums would be a better place.

[rhagz]

I feel NO sypmathy for those who spent hours upon hours waiting or farming or grinding or whatever it is you do to get these legendary weapons! - Its been clear for months now that high end VG is still under heavy development, I've always said to people NOT to level much past 30 for this very reason!


And you actually believe this is valid? How much longer do you plan to give them to develop this game?

So they released earlier and said they needed a few more months. It's been over 3.. and people should still be under level 30? When you can do that in a month of casual play? No. Anyone that gets to level X at this point and finds it lacking has every right to complain.

[Logical_Logic]

This is so obvious how are so many people not seeing it? This is a change that makes all the "easy" "common" "no time" armor better. They are trying to make lower levels enjoy getting gear more. Making the worth while gear less worth while so they are happy with their little uncommon armor.

People with no time and want easy rewards will be happier and better gear also makes leveling easier. This is one small hidden step to appeal to the "WoW" crowd.

I'm sure this will be flamed but the truth hurts.

[carmineluper]

Honestly... if they are going to make lower end gear better, and higher end gear a little worse, they seriously need to cut down on the drop rates.

At level 40 I can solo for 1 hour, and get 2 bags full of common/uncommon items. If they are going to make these items better then decrease the drop rate.... alot.

Oh and as for the legendaries, I personally am not seeing why they need a change. The legendaries were already nerfed big time once, so hopefully this "Small" change really wont effect them much. I see crafted heroics that are perhaps 2-3 levels above a legendary quesated item that are almost = to them.

[Shihan]

This is so obvious how are so many people not seeing it? This is a change that makes all the "easy" "common" "no time" armor better. They are trying to make lower levels enjoy getting gear more. Making the worth while gear less worth while so they are happy with their little uncommon armor.

People with no time and want easy rewards will be happier and better gear also makes leveling easier. This is one small hidden step to appeal to the "WoW" crowd.

I'm sure this will be flamed but the truth hurts.

Well, I disagree. I have good gear. 90% of mine is rare, heroic, and legendary yet oddly I see the big picture here. You have to use a scale for the entirety of the items database to balance out. I'd rather make sweeping changes like these early on while the subscriber base is smaller than it will be later ( assuming the game survives :P ).

No one should be so short-sighted.

It's a little hurt now and saves a lot of future agony when you've invested a LOT more time.

[Cylus]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

There's some quirkiness on Test right now that we're currently fixing before anything hits Live; 2-handed weapons, as well as a few other slots, aren't being calculated properly. Point being, take the Test statistics with a grain of salt, please :eek:
Oh and as for the legendaries, I personally am not seeing why they need a change. The legendaries were already nerfed big time once, so hopefully this "Small" change really wont effect them much. I see crafted heroics that are perhaps 2-3 levels above a legendary quesated item that are almost = to them.

[Illusive]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

There's some quirkiness on Test right now that we're currently fixing before anything hits Live; 2-handed weapons, as well as a few other slots, aren't being calculated properly. Point being, take the Test statistics with a grain of salt, please :eek:

damn my beloved redemption :(

[Dakirn]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

Thanks Cylus. Just completed my Rahz helm last night so I hope it doesn't get beaten down too much. That legendary actually IS a lot of work to get.

[carmineluper]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

There's some quirkiness on Test right now that we're currently fixing before anything hits Live; 2-handed weapons, as well as a few other slots, aren't being calculated properly. Point being, take the Test statistics with a grain of salt, please :eek:

Glad to hear the lower level legendaries wont be changed, thanks for the info.

[Kriptical]

I have to agree much as this hurts we need a larger section of weaponry. Right now its very limiting for what you can use, and carry superior weapon.

[Eleyn]

I see crafted heroics that are perhaps 2-3 levels above a legendary quesated item that are almost = to them.

No.

You most certainly do not. If you do, please provide examples, because I know you are talking from another orifice than your mouth here :)

There's a post on Vanguardcrafters that compares a level 32 legendary quested sword to a level 46 heroic crafted sword... and the legendary one more or less wins.

It's also much, much easier to obtain than the crafted sword.

[carmineluper]

my account got shut off today as I am waiting for alot of the bugs to be removed, and more content to be added.

Pretty much most Pre- level 38 ( arena) legendary weapons I recieved as a warrior only had at max 5-8more dps than a Crafted heroic, without the better stats. So while 5-8 dps can actually be quite a bit in some cases, the stats on the heroic crafted items were better, basically making them much closer in scale.

[Bulldog]

Thanks Cylus. Just completed my Rahz helm last night so I hope it doesn't get beaten down too much. That legendary actually IS a lot of work to get.

Forget too much, it is alrdy only equal to heroics from the same chunk.

IE ...Helm of Farseeing versus Rexalosh, Helm of Misery.

It not only be should not be nerfed, it needs a big boost.

If the proc is eating that much of the item's stats, I can go without 50% more heals for 10 seconds on my target every 10 minutes..thanks.

[Eleyn]

my account got shut off today as I am waiting for alot of the bugs to be removed, and more content to be added.

Pretty much most Pre- level 38 ( arena) legendary weapons I recieved as a warrior only had at max 5-8more dps than a Crafted heroic, without the better stats. So while 5-8 dps can actually be quite a bit in some cases, the stats on the heroic crafted items were better, basically making them much closer in scale.

So you mean

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/587291/flawless-guardians-greatsword-of-contagion/

versus

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1323458/subjugation/

?

Are you trying to tell me that the latter is anything but grossly superior to the former, despite being 8 levels below it?

Of course not.

[Mug]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

There's some quirkiness on Test right now that we're currently fixing before anything hits Live; 2-handed weapons, as well as a few other slots, aren't being calculated properly. Point being, take the Test statistics with a grain of salt, please :eek:

Leave my "Destruction" weapon alone. 1000 coins took forever. Item is exactly as good as it should be. :yell:

[carmineluper]

Actually I have seem level 41 crafted heroics better then that one you showed.

2 handed axes seem to be better dps overall, also I have seem crafted heroics with life siphon :), as well as having +30str and 200hp's around level 41 or so.

[Bulldog]

So you mean

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/587291/flawless-guardians-greatsword-of-contagion/

versus

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1323458/subjugation/

?

Are you trying to tell me that the latter is anything but grossly superior to the former, despite being 8 levels below it?

Of course not.

Unfair comparison, that crafted sword has points spent on a Proc. Sneaky Sneaky.

[Solid]

Legendarys below level 38 won't be affected; that leaves the ones that are between 38 and 40 and the lvl 46 Rahz helms, the latter of which wll be the most affected. I'll be reviewing and adjusting those Legendarys as necessary before the changes go in; as such, if the Helms need a little love, they'll get it.

There's some quirkiness on Test right now that we're currently fixing before anything hits Live; 2-handed weapons, as well as a few other slots, aren't being calculated properly. Point being, take the Test statistics with a grain of salt, please :eek:

Yet another nerf

Well you nerf them too much i for one will be thinking about quitting VG. You may think thats drastic and i am a whiner but when i work hard for something and it gets nerfed and someone who got a "lucky roll" on a rare gets theirs bumped it, its just getting a little too much for me.

Since you are nerfing Legenderies i sure hope you will make them eaiser to get? whos going to bother with all the work needed for a legendary item if a rare is just about as good as it or a heroic?

Hopefully i am just panicking and it will be fine, but i cant see it, i am not happy about this and i dont think i ever will be. I may just have to suck it up, but i am getting very close to the edge with VG at the moment. 2 of my friends already left and i am finding it hard to get groups.

Think before you do something silly Sigil, or do you want to kill VG altogether and cut your losses?

[Yabumbus]

Nerfing the RI questline helm..? Huh...? :confused:

[Cylus]

The change to the level 38-40 Legendary items will range from 0-2%, most of which will hardly even be visible once I get done with em.

As I said, the RI Helms will take the biggest hit but I can bounce stats around on em to alleviate that. For example, take Malore, Helm of Tyranny (plate RI helm). Before the change, it is 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 83 health points, +1% melee mitigation, +6 fire absorption. Fiddling with the stats a bit to retain the most sought-after stats, I can make it 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 69 health and +1% melee mitigation (using the old % mods for the sake of simplicity). So it loses 14 health points and 6 fire absorption. Hope no one quits over that :(

It's really not going to be all that noticeable :D
Hopefully i am just panicking and it will be fine, but i cant see, i am not happy about this and i dont think i ever will be. I may just have to suck it up, but i am getting very close to the edge with VG at the moment. 2 of my friends already left and i am finding it hard to get groups.

[Solid]

The change to the level 38-40 Legendary items will range from 0-2%, most of which will hardly even be visible once I get done with em.

As I said, the RI Helms will take the biggest hit but I can bounce stats around on em to alleviate that. For example, take Malore, Helm of Tyranny (plate RI helm). Before the change, it is 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 83 health points, +1% melee mitigation, +6 fire absorption. Fiddling with the stats a bit to retain the most sought-after stats, I can make it 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 69 health and +1% melee mitigation (using the old % mods for the sake of simplicity). So it loses 14 health points and 6 fire absorption. Hope no one quits over that :(

It's really not going to be all that noticeable :D

Well thanks for the quick reply Cylus, appreciate that.

If what you say is going to be the case then fine those sort of numbers i can deal with. I said i might be panicking but all i had were patch notes and previous nerfs to go on. I really want Vanguard to succeed and i dont just threaten to leave whenever something doesnt go my way. Was just letting you guys know how one of their players is feeling at this moment in time.

Again thanks Cylus and keep up the good work guys ( and stop scaring us please :))

[Eleyn]

Unfair comparison, that crafted sword has points spent on a Proc. Sneaky Sneaky.

Procs don't take itemization points away. They take the continental effect away.

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/587287/flawless-guardians-greatsword-of-accuracy/

If you prefer?

[Bulldog]

The change to the level 38-40 Legendary items will range from 0-2%, most of which will hardly even be visible once I get done with em.

As I said, the RI Helms will take the biggest hit but I can bounce stats around on em to alleviate that. For example, take Malore, Helm of Tyranny (plate RI helm). Before the change, it is 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 83 health points, +1% melee mitigation, +6 fire absorption. Fiddling with the stats a bit to retain the most sought-after stats, I can make it 316 AC, 20 str, 10 con, 69 health and +1% melee mitigation (using the old % mods for the sake of simplicity). So it loses 14 health points and 6 fire absorption. Hope no one quits over that :(

It's really not going to be all that noticeable :D

Cylus what makes it noticible is that many of us expected them to get PUMPED, not reduced.

You can get a Heroic helm in Rhaz Inkur that has nearly IDENTICLE stats to the Medium healer helm.

This is the reward for the entire quest line at Rhaz...
http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1350832/rexalosh-helm-of-misery/

This is the reward for an easily farmed mob in Rhaz(that you also happen to kill on the quest line..LOL)
http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1349439/helm-of-farseeing/


Hrmm...

[Eleyn]

Cylus what makes it noticible is that many of us expected them to get PUMPED, not reduced.

You can get a Heroic helm in Rhaz Inkur that has nearly IDENTICLE stats to the Medium healer helm.

This is the reward for the entire quest line at Rhaz...
http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1350832/rexalosh-helm-of-misery/

This is the reward for an easily farmed mob in Rhaz(that you also happen to kill on the quest line..LOL)
http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1349439/helm-of-farseeing/


Hrmm...

The legendary item's clicky looks like it would be very useful for raid content, no?

Just about every mob is 'easily farmed'. It's just a matter of time, and whether it drops what you want - I believe Cylus stated that heroic items drop 1/8th of the time, blah blah.. in any case, that heroic hat looks way worse than the legendary one.

[Bulldog]

The legendary item's clicky looks like it would be very useful for raid content, no?

Just about every mob is 'easily farmed'. It's just a matter of time, and whether it drops what you want - I believe Cylus stated that heroic items drop 1/8th of the time, blah blah.. in any case, that heroic hat looks way worse than the legendary one.

10 seconds every 10 minutes? No...

Way worse? Here.

-1 vit
-1 wis
+7 energy(yes plus)
-8 AC
-6 Fire resist(haha)
-40 HP

You think that looks far worse? Do you want me to tell you exactly what that does for me?

Thats my point. Easily farmed loot is equal a long..bug filled, quest line.(and the quest one is being dropped 1-2%..LOL) Most of the bugs are gone now, but it's still significantly more work.

I understand you'l never agree with me, but I was more talking to Cylus.

[Eleyn]

I understand you'l never agree with me, but I was more talking to Cylus.

I understand your point, but I guess they should be either bumping up the legendary reward in level, or nerfing the heroic reward's level. The latter seems to make more sense. You can only craft a level 48 flawless heroic helm, so nerfing the dropped heroic helm to level 48 would probably bring it more in line with the quest reward. You said that it is easy to obtain the heroic, after all. It certainly (currently) isn't easy to obtain the ultra rares to craft a flawless one.

I don't think any 'easy farm mobs' - trioable stuff, in other words - should be dropping any heroic items in excess of the current level cap. That leaves no room for upwards expansion for raid drops and high-end quest drops at all, leading to you complaining about the legendary hat. The problem isn't the legendary hat, it's the heroic one. I think I saw a thread over in the defensive fighter section of these forums discussing the ease of obtaining very high-end equipment in Rhaz Inkur.

[Bulldog]

I understand your point, but I guess they should be either bumping up the legendary reward in level, or nerfing the heroic reward's level. The latter seems to make more sense. You can only craft a level 48 flawless heroic helm, so nerfing the dropped heroic helm to level 48 would probably bring it more in line with the quest reward. You said that it is easy to obtain the heroic, after all.

I don't think any 'easy farm mobs' - trioable stuff, in other words - should be dropping any heroic items in excess of the current level cap. That leaves no room for upwards expansion for raid drops and high-end quest drops at all, leading to you complaining about the legendary hat. The problem isn't the legendary hat, it's the heroic one.

Disagree, your assuming current content is as hard as it gets. If so, then I want a Dev to tell me because then I've already won Vanguard.

[Cobalty2004]

Disagree, your assuming current content is as hard as it gets. If so, then I want a Dev to tell me because then I've already won Vanguard.

Did I win too?

[Bulldog]

Did I win too?

No, you rolled a halfling, that by default makes you a loser.:cool:

[Renfail]

hahahaha!

I had to laugh the first time I saw Frak run by in-game. I had no idea he rolled a halfer....I soooo snickered :D

[Zastapth]

You know what I reckon half the damn problem is? That blody curse database.

I'm 38 now and have ONE heroic item to my name and around 6 rares, and I bought them from the broker, an outfitter or are above world quest rewards. It seems all people have done is scoured curse to find where all the decent quest lines are and jetted off over to Qalia to get everything uber they can lay their hands on.

I followed the game as it was laid out for me starting in Tursh. I never once was told by an NPC to go do an Infineum series for outlandishly good gear compared to Khegor's bloody end. Nor did any of them tell me that The Wardship of the Sleeping Moon had a full armour set available while I was pointlessly gridning away in Trengals for a mediocre heroic cloak. The imbalances continue regarding the continents when mid way through the 30's every caster seemed to be turning up in Southwatch with a heroic robe, trousers and necklace from some bounty hunters quest line.

Again, being from Tursh, none of this was available to me if I stayed within the confines of the game...which unfortunately for me it seems was a bad move.

All you damn loot whores are the problem, not the game items imo.

[Hanabi Omoide]

Again, being from Tursh, none of this was available to me if I stayed within the confines of the game...which unfortunately for me it seems was a bad move.

So... /who all (my level range) doesn't work for you?
Or /tell (someone my level range) what are ya up to? can you use a (my level) (my class)?

Started in Tanvu myself...
was dragged to Tsang's by friends...
Then dragged to CiS by another group...
Then to Wardship by yet another group...

Just because an NPC didn't tell you to run somewhere and give you a nice compass
waypoint doesn't mean that finding out where to go entirely within the game is
impossible.

[Zastapth]

So... /who all (my level range) doesn't work for you?
Or /tell (someone my level range) what are ya up to? can you use a (my level) (my class)?

Started in Tanvu myself...
was dragged to Tsang's by friends...
Then dragged to CiS by another group...
Then to Wardship by yet another group...

Just because an NPC didn't tell you to run somewhere and give you a nice compass
waypoint doesn't mean that finding out where to go entirely within the game is
impossible.

Nice try but the compass point was far from my requirements, if you're going to use cheap shots at least make sure you're doing it right. I said that it was never mentioned by an NPC, no chat dialogue, no lore, nothing.

Of course I communicated with others as to where they got items from and this is fair game....but that damn database is doing to Van what thotbot did to wow, no item is unique with it around. Every loot whore is now just raping the best areas of the game for dropped gear.

When I get a legendary I'm sure it will be amazing and find an instant place in my inventory because I didn't go whoring the game of anything and everything good before that point.

[Falmarri]

You know what I reckon half the damn problem is? That blody curse database.

I'm 38 now and have ONE heroic item to my name and around 6 rares, and I bought them from the broker, an outfitter or are above world quest rewards. It seems all people have done is scoured curse to find where all the decent quest lines are and jetted off over to Qalia to get everything uber they can lay their hands on.

I followed the game as it was laid out for me starting in Tursh. I never once was told by an NPC to go do an Infineum series for outlandishly good gear compared to Khegor's bloody end. Nor did any of them tell me that The Wardship of the Sleeping Moon had a full armour set available while I was pointlessly gridning away in Trengals for a mediocre heroic cloak. The imbalances continue regarding the continents when mid way through the 30's every caster seemed to be turning up in Southwatch with a heroic robe, trousers and necklace from some bounty hunters quest line.

Again, being from Tursh, none of this was available to me if I stayed within the confines of the game...which unfortunately for me it seems was a bad move.

All you damn loot whores are the problem, not the game items imo.


So you want NPCs to tell you everywhere to go? How does it makes sense that an NPC from Tursh knows about the infineum quest line? How about you go explore and find your own places to get loots instead of waiting for an NPC to tell you where to go.

[Zastapth]

So you want NPCs to tell you everywhere to go? How does it makes sense that an NPC from Tursh knows about the infineum quest line? How about you go explore and find your own places to get loots instead of waiting for an NPC to tell you where to go.

Yes, I want NPC's to reveal more information and make it so that those that are prepared to put in a bit of time reading (rather than just click someone who happens to have a shield hovering over their head) end up with some information. Better than looking on a website imo, but it sounds like you're not agreeing with that sentiment?

[Falmarri]

Yes, I want NPC's to reveal more information and make it so that those that are prepared to put in a bit of time reading (rather than just click someone who happens to have a shield hovering over their head) end up with some information. Better than looking on a website imo, but it sounds like you're not agreeing with that sentiment?

Well the infineum guy doesn't have a shield on his head. In fact several of the most primer quest lines don't start with shields.

[Lauraliane]

The change to the level 38-40 Legendary items will range from 0-2%, most of which will hardly even be visible once I get done with em.

Since you are on the legendary items atm, could you please fix Rylsca, Anari's Wrath while you are at it ? The effect on it proc a fire DD which is nice...problem is that it ALSO proc on Mez and thus break it instantly...

[Shawnsan]

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

So glad I canceled

[Solid]

Yes, I want NPC's to reveal more information and make it so that those that are prepared to put in a bit of time reading (rather than just click someone who happens to have a shield hovering over their head) end up with some information. Better than looking on a website imo, but it sounds like you're not agreeing with that sentiment?

Yeah ok the npcs giving you info on places in other continents fair enough, but i think the reason they dont is because of what you mentioned "no gear being unique". If an npc pointed out where all the best gaer was wouldnt that defeat the purpose of your argument?

I can think of a few cases this already happens, like at Recondite it tells you to go to Strand of Ancients. I have came across a few npcs that tell you to go visit someone else.

Isnt your suggestion more to help those who cant be bothered doing a bit of research find all the best items?

I have always found forums/affiliated/fan sites to be your friend, try spending a bit of time researching if you want certain items

Basically you just sound mad because you didnt get the items and who cares now CIS weapons are outlevelled, i didnt get CIS weapons but i do now have Graystone weapon (on Thestra).

[Spitfire]

By Shawnsan: So glad I canceled
By Shawnsan: I have also joined the waves of cancelations for not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel.
By Shawnsan: Actually 99% of my Guild came to Vanguard from a SWG guild.They all left. So did I.
By Shawnsan: You have cancelled your subscription. Thank you for your patronage
By Shawnsan: The getting closer in bed to SOE seals my cancelation.




Ok shawn we get the idea, you left. I REALLY am not one to flame, but did you miss the cookie giveout to leaving the game and returning repeatedly hoping to receive said cookie?
Im no where near a vanboi by anymeans, and dont take it as such.
But its almost like your the guy in half baked:
"im quitting, yep I QUIT! now whos coming with me? huh? come on....come ooooon"

[Shihan]

Ok shawn we get the idea, you left. I REALLY am not one to flame, but did you miss the cookie giveout to leaving the game and returning repeatedly hoping to receive said cookie?
Im no where near a vanboi by anymeans, and dont take it as such.
But its almost like your the guy in half baked:
"im quitting, yep I QUIT! now whos coming with me? huh? come on....come ooooon"

Who originally got it from Jerry McGuire ;)

[Purplenv]

Lvl40 Legendary:
1371312

Comparable to: (Lvl44 Heroic) (and I can dual wield these, as I have 2)
1392711

and if you don't like the Axe comparison, its comparable to: (46 Heroic)
1371248


I'm not against the tweaking of common/uncommon/rares. I think its deffinately resonable for ballancing.

For anyone that thinks that these,
990889
990565
are good for 30 levels, just because they are legendary, they are mistaken, and need to get out more. (Althought you can take the Pantheon SS for a long time, investing an equal, or even lesser amount of time, can result in upgrades if the effort is put in).

Another good comparison for Legendary to Heroic a few levels higher:
1323408

vs

1392713

[Vidrak]

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.
I am sorry, but Adventuring gear is far from "hard to get", very, very far.

[Bulldog]

I am sorry, but Adventuring gear is far from "hard to get", very, very far.

Maybe we aren't all elite as you?

[Vidrak]

Maybe we aren't all elite as you?
No, I am saying Adventuring is easy compared to the other spheres as far as getting equipment. Though upcoming changes look to help fix this. But I have seen so many heroic drops (quests are another story) from adventuring, it makes me ask, what the hell is the point of crafting/diplomacy if they are never used? Or if you can just go out and kill a few named and get the same item, instead of spending tons of money on mats or buying an upgrade recipe?

That is all. I just see a large disparity in "rare" items in this game. They seem most easily attained adventuring so far, and I guess that never really made sense to me. Some more team work would be nice, I think.

[Cobalty2004]

hahahaha!

I had to laugh the first time I saw Frak run by in-game. I had no idea he rolled a halfer....I soooo snickered :D

We are the superior race!

[Earlchaos]

No, I am saying Adventuring is easy compared to the other spheres as far as getting equipment. Though upcoming changes look to help fix this. But I have seen so many heroic drops (quests are another story) from adventuring, it makes me ask, what the hell is the point of crafting/diplomacy if they are never used? Or if you can just go out and kill a few named and get the same item, instead of spending tons of money on mats or buying an upgrade recipe?

That is all. I just see a large disparity in "rare" items in this game. They seem most easily attained adventuring so far, and I guess that never really made sense to me. Some more team work would be nice, I think.


Maybe you don't know how getting end game gear works?

1. grind for faction
2. grind for quest items
3. kill nameds/clear hard dungeons/start hard events
4. get blue/yellow items
5. find a crafter who can update them to heroic :D (this will be the hardest part and the crafters, who can do this first, will be IMHO the richest ppl on their server, everything else will be peanuts :D )

Yes, of course there's some gear which just drops but you can't rely on that.


cheers

[Cobalty2004]

If they want to make interdependency between crafters and adventurers they must:

1.) Have some way of obtaining URs outside of WOs. Make harvesting yield more rares and URs. Make named have a chance at dropping a UR/rare.

More people would buy crafted gear if they could supply the mats.

Crafters should rely on adventurers somewhat to get the mats they need.

Its bullshit they can get by grinding levels like they do (or used to). What happened to harvesting? LOL

2.) Allow crafters to upgrade adventuring gear, like the transmuter system from EQ2. This way even the most hardcore of raiders will still seek out crafters to get that last bit of power from their gear.

3.) I have yet to see a crafted item with a clicky. They are all procs.

4.) Tie in raid loot with crafting even. Drops a recipe book. Crafter that gets that can now make legendaries with the right mats, which should only drop from raids. Kind of like T5 EQ2.

[Eleyn]

If they want to make interdependency between crafters and adventurers they must:

1.) Have some way of obtaining URs outside of WOs. Make harvesting yield more rares and URs. Make named have a chance at dropping a UR/rare.

More people would buy crafted gear if they could supply the mats.

Crafters should rely on adventurers somewhat to get the mats they need.

Its bullshit they can get by grinding levels like they do (or used to). What happened to harvesting? LOL

2.) Allow crafters to upgrade adventuring gear, like the transmuter system from EQ2. This way even the most hardcore of raiders will still seek out crafters to get that last bit of power from their gear.

3.) I have yet to see a crafted item with a clicky. They are all procs.

4.) Tie in raid loot with crafting even. Drops a recipe book. Crafter that gets that can now make legendaries with the right mats, which should only drop from raids. Kind of like T5 EQ2.

Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this, for the most part (I say most part - you said that it's BS that they can get stuff by grinding levels, when adventurers clearly get stuff by grinding levels themselves, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that..)

Sphere interdependency is a good thing, though. Stick diplomats in there, too, somewhere.

[Bulldog]

Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this, for the most part (I say most part - you said that it's BS that they can get stuff by grinding levels, when adventurers clearly get stuff by grinding levels themselves, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that..)

Sphere interdependency is a good thing, though. Stick diplomats in there, too, somewhere.

No, there is a difference in adventurers getting stuff for themselves, YOU don't have to buy it from them.

Crafters-Have to buy nothing from Adventurers
Adventurers-Only source of House+Boat is crafters, can buy gear from crafters.

Oh and don't even try the harvesting approach, it's trivial to do for many classes regardless of level.

[Eleyn]

Crafters-Have to buy nothing from Adventurers
Adventurers-Have to buy nothing from Crafters


Fixed. I mean, there is nothing you 'have' to buy from crafters, any more than crafters 'have' to buy anything from adventurers. Don't try and pretend there isn't any interdependance at all, though, read below.


Oh and don't even try the harvesting approach, it's trivial to do for many classes regardless of level.


I won't try the harvesting approach, don't worry.

I'll try the decon approach. Simply put, I must decon expensive adventurer-obtained items in order to create anything remotely desirable. Period. I don't get mitigation dusts from WOs. I don't get endurance regen dusts from WOs. I need to funnel enormous amounts of cash into the adventuring sphere in order to have a supply of dusts to make the best armor, just like you have to give crafters cash for your house and boat.

Stick some rare heavy armor on the broker and you'll see, we're on the same server after all :D

I see no difference - I absolutely do "have" to buy stuff from adventurers, which I do every day, and I support even greater sphere interdependance - to say that there is currently none at all is false.

EDIT: P.S. you can harvest too! Sorry, I couldn't resist :D

[Bulldog]

Fixed. I mean, there is nothing you 'have' to buy from crafters, any more than crafters 'have' to buy anything from adventurers. Don't try and pretend there isn't any interdependance at all, though, read below.



I won't try the harvesting approach, don't worry.

I'll try the decon approach. Simply put, I must decon expensive adventurer-obtained items in order to create anything remotely desirable. Period. I don't get mitigation dusts from WOs. I don't get endurance regen dusts from WOs. I need to funnel enormous amounts of cash into the adventuring sphere in order to have a supply of dusts to make the best armor, just like you have to give crafters cash for your house and boat.

Stick some rare heavy armor on the broker and you'll see, we're on the same server after all :D

I see no difference - I absolutely do "have" to buy stuff from adventurers, which I do every day, and I support even greater sphere interdependance - to say that there is currently none at all is false.

EDIT: P.S. you can harvest too! Sorry, I couldn't resist :D

I stand corrected. I thought WOs produced that stuff, has it always been that way?

Hah, and yeah I used to harvest, im still a 460 skinner/470 harvester. I got many skinning server first on our server..untill i realized harvesters couldnt get heroic mats..W T F

[Eleyn]

I stand corrected. I thought WOs produced that stuff, has it always been that way?

Hah, and yeah I used to harvest, im still a 460 skinner/470 harvester. I got many skinning server first on our server..untill i realized harvesters couldnt get heroic mats..W T F

Well, you will love the upcoming changes - Silius has posted over at Vanguardcrafters that harvesting rare and ultra-rare drop rates are increasing, and they are turning ultra-rare world node spawns back on. Get that skinning knife out, you'll need it *grin*

[Cobalty2004]

Well, you will love the upcoming changes - Silius has posted over at Vanguardcrafters that harvesting rare and ultra-rare drop rates are increasing, and they are turning ultra-rare world node spawns back on. Get that skinning knife out, you'll need it *grin*

Thats nice to hear, ill start harvesting myself again.

[Eleyn]

Thats nice to hear, ill start harvesting myself again.

Yes, I am quite looking forward to it too. Despite popular belief, I don't enjoy being a materials vendor. Even now, I make people bring me stuff for their armor - I charge very little, but I absolutely will not supply the materials. This change means that I'll be able to craft flawless items for people again, only it'll be their hard work that earns them the flawless item, not mine - as it should be. Why should I work for your equipment? I'd much rather be in the services business than in the goods business, given the state of Vanguard's economy especially :)