Guild plots will be unobtainable by legit players

[Elgarr]

Basically if sigil can't see that when guild plots are in the game functioning properly that the only people who will be buying them will be mostly people who have used botting/coin dupes etc,why bother having them. Basically when sigil says that diplomacy will have a big impact on player run cities etc, its good to know that because they have'nt bothered to do anything about the outrages amount of money duping/botting thats been going on, most will never be able to get them. Even if a genuine guild goes to buy one when they have the money, by the time they have the money put together they would have all been sold and alot of them run by some rmt/coin duping sad ****ers, who have 50 diplomats that have been botted to that lvl also. :rolleyes:

I would go back to a post that was brought up in beta 3 or 4 i think about what sigil was intending to do about these problems in the game and tbh, bugger all was really said then except the usual generic reply of "Sigil takes any form of cheating very seriously" (LMAO yeh right)

Its good to see that the system works in favour of the cheaters and not honest players. All that has been done is people have buried there head in the sand over it and apart from the occasional message about a gold seller being reported nothing else is being done.

If there are dupes in the game why on earth are'nt they gettting sorted and people being kicked from the game for using them? You will lose far more subs from honest players who are sick of the cheating and leaving than you will by kicking those who are the culprits.

One classic example that lights up like a fecking huge neon sign that says "Look this is bloody obvious" with regards to those people who are able to get to 50 adventuring but then somehow get to 50 crafter in less time than it took to get to 50 adventurer. People really can't be that thick can they to see botting is'nt going on there? Especially as it was ages after the first 50 adventures in game, was there a 50 crafter. (or is it easier to get to 50 crafter than advent now, /sarcasm off)


Bugs i can live, blatant cheating and nothing being done about it i can not.

[Kriptical]

Basically if sigil can't see that when guild plots are in the game functioning properly that the only people who will be buying them will be mostly people who have used botting/coin dupes etc,why bother having them. Basically when sigil says that diplomacy will have a big impact on player run cities etc, its good to know that because they have'nt bothered to do anything about the outrages amount of money duping/botting thats been going on, most will never be able to get them. Even if a genuine guild goes to buy one when they have the money, by the time they have the money put together they would have all been sold and alot of them run by some rmt/coin duping sad ****ers, who have 50 diplomats that have been botted to that lvl also. :rolleyes:

I would go back to a post that was brought up in beta 3 or 4 i think about what sigil was intending to do about these problems in the game and tbh, bugger all was really said then except the usual generic reply of "Sigil takes any form of cheating very seriously" (LMAO yeh right)

Its good to see that the system works in favour of the cheaters and not honest players. All that has been done is people have buried there head in the sand over it and apart from the occasional message about a gold seller being reported nothing else is being done.

If there are dupes in the game why on earth are'nt they gettting sorted and people being kicked from the game for using them? You will lose far more subs from honest players who are sick of the cheating and leaving than you will by kicking those who are the culprits.

One classic example that lights up like a fecking huge neon sign that says "Look this is bloody obvious" with regards to those people who are able to get to 50 adventuring but then somehow get to 50 crafter in less time than it took to get to 50 adventurer. People really can't be that thick can they to see botting is'nt going on there? Especially as it was ages after the first 50 adventures in game, was there a 50 crafter. (or is it easier to get to 50 crafter than advent now, /sarcasm off)


Bugs i can live, blatant cheating and nothing being done about it i can not.

My moneys still on it just being a mother of a problem. These guys arent dumb, they made a crafting based game which is highly interdependant. This poops on all that. Im guessing they're kind of peeved. Does feel like a while but again, just complicated :\

P.S. that being said I hope when they are returned they arent stupid expensive. Its not eq where you had big teams, raids ran 54 at a time, so you usually needed 75ish if your a hardcore guild, or 120 if your more casual based. Consequently guilds had millions of plats, we max out at 24 apparently here! Adjust costs down on Halls pls!

[Unbelievable]

Seriously, did any thought go into this game?

[atticus21st]

Seriously, did any thought go into this game?

I agree In a way, Instanced housing would have been best and would have been more practical than trying to compete over the plots

[Darthorious]

With the way prices keep going up by the time the cap hits the cost of a plot most of us should be able to have close to half the cost or at least I will and I don't craft. I just sell for whatever the going rate is and if there isn't anything up I'm selling I just up it by 5% just to see if it will sell for that much. And it always does.

With just a couple people it shouldn't be too hard to raise 70 plat. assuming the guilds already have started saving for a plot.

[jedilabrat]

Seriously, did any thought go into this game?

The issue is that they didnt put any thought behind the game, the issue is how they went about thinking. They spent 4.5 years on art work (which is honestly the worst I have seen in any current MMO) and .5 years on game mechanics. That is why this game is such a horrible mess.

I totally agree they should have had instanced housing in all the major cities of the game. Was a major flaw in SWG and again repeated in VG.

The cities are devoid of life but for some silly NPC on a set movement pattern. What better way to get cities alive and vibrant that to have PC housing in them.

[atticus21st]

The cities are devoid of life but for some silly NPC on a set movement pattern. What better way to get cities alive and vibrant that to have PC housing in them.

I agree completely, the plots were such a waste of an idea. Instanced housing in the big cities made it easy for everyone to get anywhere you are going. Whats the point of traveling halfway across the world to your house and then have to travel all the way back just to go into town.

I spend about 90% traveling and only about 10% questing/exp

[Unbelievable]

The issue is that they didnt put any thought behind the game, the issue is how they went about thinking. They spent 4.5 years on art work (which is honestly the worst I have seen in any current MMO) and .5 years on game mechanics. That is why this game is such a horrible mess.

Now that's a spot on assessment. Personally, I think Vanguard looks great. But the gameplay and mechanics are almost like the red headed bastard stepchild. They are just an afterthought that got no where near the amount of attention it needed to make this a serious competitor on the mmo market.

[suga]

Imo, only guild leaders of guilds of a certain size should even be eligible to buy a guild hall plot. The guild should have existed for a period of months, and a guild leader should be able to "put money down" on a plot, and guild members can contribute, building up equity until they own the plot.

If the guild hall plots can be bought by anyone, yes, they will be bought by platinum dupers and buyers, and that would be a travesty.

I'd like to see Sigil/Soe recognize the efforts of honest hard-working guilds by giving us a way to buy premium properties without cheating.

[rhagz]

Dupe gold to buy stuff, bot crafting to make stuff and bot diplo for inter-city relations! Brilliant!

[Jammu]

The issue is that they didnt put any thought behind the game, the issue is how they went about thinking. They spent 4.5 years on art work (which is honestly the worst I have seen in any current MMO) and .5 years on game mechanics. That is why this game is such a horrible mess.

I totally agree they should have had instanced housing in all the major cities of the game. Was a major flaw in SWG and again repeated in VG.

The cities are devoid of life but for some silly NPC on a set movement pattern. What better way to get cities alive and vibrant that to have PC housing in them.

The flaw in SWG was not that people could plot their own homes, it was that they never went away. The cities would have been much more dynamic if there had been some mechanism that would have packed up the homes and industrial machines of inactive players - maybe not deleted them...but packed up and stored somewhere so if the player returned they could be bailed out again. This would have made for much more dynamism later in the game - for those newer players to get up the critical mass necessary to create and maintain a new city.

Hopefully VG will have some kind of decay, where you can't just deposit a crapload of plat into the bank to keep your unused buildings in the game.

Regards.
Jammu

PS - yeah, the gold buyers will buy up all the gh plots then people will shriek then they will add more so I'm not worried about that part.

[Gabbelgak]

Imo, only guild leaders of guilds of a certain size should even be eligible to buy a guild hall plot. The guild should have existed for a period of months, and a guild leader should be able to "put money down" on a plot, and guild members can contribute, building up equity until they own the plot.

If the guild hall plots can be bought by anyone, yes, they will be bought by platinum dupers and buyers, and that would be a travesty.

I'd like to see Sigil/Soe recognize the efforts of honest hard-working guilds by giving us a way to buy premium properties without cheating.


While this would be a good direction to take, it wouldn't work. One look at ebonlore lets you understand that ;)

I feel the way you do, but it sadly isn't that simple to fix :(

[Eldoryn]

I agree completely, the plots were such a waste of an idea. Instanced housing in the big cities made it easy for everyone to get anywhere you are going. Whats the point of traveling halfway across the world to your house and then have to travel all the way back just to go into town.

I spend about 90% traveling and only about 10% questing/exp

What if it were instanced housing plot areas? I love the idea of being able to see the house sitting somewhere in the world.

[Spry]

Saying only people who have more then me are cheaters is lame dude. My guild has almost made it's first plat which isn't much but we just started harvesting. The guild bank basicly went from 0 to 1p in like 2 weeks maybe 3. So if you apply yourself and work together I don't see why you could have a guild plot in a few months.

[Ezra]

Except instanced houses causing players to gather too much and you get lag.

In EQ2 they even started deleting NPCs from Qeynos Harbour because the lag was too bad across all servers, didn't help that there was loads of character and building models your pc had to render that you should never see unless you glitch through a wall etc but oh well.

[Elgarr]

Saying only people who have more then me are cheaters is lame dude. My guild has almost made it's first plat which isn't much but we just started harvesting. The guild bank basicly went from 0 to 1p in like 2 weeks maybe 3. So if you apply yourself and work together I don't see why you could have a guild plot in a few months.

Very nice, you made 1pp in 2 weeks,shame really that most of these are making that in a few hours. beause most dupers/cheaters at the moment have more than enough for a guild plot at present, they made that sort of money within a few days, so you carry on busting your gut and in a few months when you have 30pp and these people have over 10000 pp You can then sit there safe in the knowledge that you could buy a guild plot if there was any left.

Maybe then you might understand how serious duping is in the game at the moment, and the amount that people have already made, to say you are way off the mark, is an understatement. This was'nt meant to come across as a flame, more of a wake up call to how naive you seem to be.

[Spry]

Very nice, you made 1pp in 2 weeks,shame really that most of these are making that in a few hours. beause most dupers/cheaters at the moment have more than enough for a guild plot at present, they made that sort of money within a few days, so you carry on busting your gut and in a few months when you have 30pp and these people have over 10000 pp. You sit there safe in the knowledge that you could buy a guild plot if there was any left.

Maybe then you might understand how serious duping is in the game at the moment, and the amount that people have already made, to say you are way off the mark, is an understatement. This was'nt a flame as such, more of a wake up call mate.

Seriously I understand that duping is a problem but I am making a point that there are plently of legit guilds who busted there ass and have enough for a plot and your calling them cheaters. The op made the comment only dupers and cheaters can afford it which is bs. So I'm not sure why you thought I needed a wake up call on duping when I said nothing that would say I support it or think it's not a problem. *confused*

[Elgarr]

Saying only people who have more then me are cheaters is lame dude. My guild has almost made it's first plat which isn't much but we just started harvesting. The guild bank basicly went from 0 to 1p in like 2 weeks maybe 3. So if you apply yourself and work together I don't see why you could have a guild plot in a few months.

Seriously I understand that duping is a problem but I am making a point that there are plently of legit guilds who busted there ass and have enough for a plot and your calling them cheaters. The op made the comment only dupers and cheaters can afford it which is bs. So I'm not sure why you thought I needed a wake up call on duping when I said nothing that would say I support it or think it's not a problem. *confused*


Because the "op" thats me, didnt say that, what the op said was..

Basically if sigil can't see that when guild plots are in the game functioning properly that the only people who will be buying them will be mostly people who have used botting/coin dupes etc

Mostly, so basically, legit guilds who are close to getting the money, wont have a chance as the cheaters would have bought most of them up (and a small % of honest people bought the rest) So your guild thats making say a few pp a week, wont have a hope in hell :)

[Gabbelgak]

You can't truely judge income based off a fubar'd economy. Saying you can make 1pp in 2 weeks (doesn't seem outlandish in the least to me, totally doable as a guild - but still the point remains) means nothing if your maping that 1pp in todays economy. Saying you can farm yellows to sell for 20g today means nothing for the future.

The value of money at this freeze frame of time is not the value it is truely meant to be at. People have more than they are supposed to if they have participated in selling anything on the broker while outside factors influence it. People are willing to spend more because they have more based off an economy that is in the toilet.

Depending on the stance sigil takes toward fixing said problems the market is going to change again. 20g for that yellow you were farming to sell could suddenly become a thing of the past, or it could become common place, you can't really judge until sigil decides on what course of action it will take.

There were reports on the vgtact boards of people simply buying all the diplomacy clothes on the market, likely in some manor an attempt to hide a trail. Every person that had clothes purchased from them now has a slightly skewed view on the economy due to this outside influence, it changes how they look at buying and selling because now they have more coin in pocket that in all honosty should never have been there to begin with. 1pp to them could now be not such a big deal. If they craft as well they would now be willing to spend more of the money that in essence originated in an unsavory manor (in theory) on harvested resources thus skewing that market as well without any direct involvment of the original person in the resource market.

[kcxiv]

I like the non instance housing. Every night before i log i recall to my house and camp. The way they are now does not bother me, i actually really like it. With 3 recalls now its very easy to get from point a to point b now.

[Eadric]

When I heard about the gold duping bugs becoming so rampant, I assumed that was the reason Sigil took the guild plots out of the game. Not sure what they can do to reverse the damage that has been done, and make the economy legit again, at this point.

[Falmarri]

While this would be a good direction to take, it wouldn't work. One look at ebonlore lets you understand that ;)

I feel the way you do, but it sadly isn't that simple to fix :(

Do you guys have like a fetish with ebonlore or something? Seriously, can you go one thread without bringing ebonlore up?

[Kurron Nye]

Basically if sigil can't see that when guild plots are in the game functioning properly that the only people who will be buying them will be mostly people who have used botting/coin dupes etc,why bother having them. Basically when sigil says that diplomacy will have a big impact on player run cities etc, its good to know that because they have'nt bothered to do anything about the outrages amount of money duping/botting thats been going on, most will never be able to get them. Even if a genuine guild goes to buy one when they have the money, by the time they have the money put together they would have all been sold and alot of them run by some rmt/coin duping sad ****ers, who have 50 diplomats that have been botted to that lvl also. :rolleyes:

I would go back to a post that was brought up in beta 3 or 4 i think about what sigil was intending to do about these problems in the game and tbh, bugger all was really said then except the usual generic reply of "Sigil takes any form of cheating very seriously" (LMAO yeh right)

Its good to see that the system works in favour of the cheaters and not honest players. All that has been done is people have buried there head in the sand over it and apart from the occasional message about a gold seller being reported nothing else is being done.

If there are dupes in the game why on earth are'nt they gettting sorted and people being kicked from the game for using them? You will lose far more subs from honest players who are sick of the cheating and leaving than you will by kicking those who are the culprits.

One classic example that lights up like a fecking huge neon sign that says "Look this is bloody obvious" with regards to those people who are able to get to 50 adventuring but then somehow get to 50 crafter in less time than it took to get to 50 adventurer. People really can't be that thick can they to see botting is'nt going on there? Especially as it was ages after the first 50 adventures in game, was there a 50 crafter. (or is it easier to get to 50 crafter than advent now, /sarcasm off)


Bugs i can live, blatant cheating and nothing being done about it i can not.

I totally disagree with your assertion that plots would only be attainable by cheaters.

The biggest roadblock to plot ownership are players themselves and their inability to manage money, or understand concepts such as savings and prioritization. Instead they constantly plunk money down for the latest shiny thing on the brokers, then wax on about being broke.

EVERYONE in my guild owns a plot now. We pooled our money together when the game launched and got a few 2.5g plots, and now our crafters who are establishing themselves in the market are purchasing 10g plots.

We also have folks who are going co-op on their plot/house purchases (basically getting roomates). And lemme tell ya, on Woefeather there is not even close to being a shortage of available 10g plots yet.

Not a one of us is a cheater or a gold farmer, we just are not dumb about our money nor do we assume that we all have some kind of right to a plot or a right to buy a plot at a certain price.

Anyone can get a plot right now and afford to keep it, its all about learning how to manage money. (and if you are one of those people who have all their credit cards maxxed and keep taking home equity loans, please dont post opinions about the economy or money mgmt, because its clear you are not a expert on the topic).

[rhagz]

He said guild plots, which are a bit more expensive than 2.5 or 10g, no?

[Elgarr]

I totally disagree with your assertion that plots would only be attainable by cheaters.

The biggest roadblock to plot ownership are players themselves and their inability to manage money, or understand concepts such as savings and prioritization. Instead they constantly plunk money down for the latest shiny thing on the brokers, then wax on about being broke.

EVERYONE in my guild owns a plot now. We pooled our money together when the game launched and got a few 2.5g plots, and now our crafters who are establishing themselves in the market are purchasing 10g plots.

We also have folks who are going co-op on their plot/house purchases (basically getting roomates). And lemme tell ya, on Woefeather there is not even close to being a shortage of available 10g plots yet.

Not a one of us is a cheater or a gold farmer, we just are not dumb about our money nor do we assume that we all have some kind of right to a plot or a right to buy a plot at a certain price.

Anyone can get a plot right now and afford to keep it, its all about learning how to manage money. (and if you are one of those people who have all their credit cards maxxed and keep taking home equity loans, please dont post opinions about the economy or money mgmt, because its clear you are not a expert on the topic).

/ROFLMAO

How about you read my post again, slooooowly. Then plz comment :)

[Multiplex]

I totally disagree with your assertion that plots would only be attainable by cheaters.

The biggest roadblock to plot ownership are players themselves and their inability to manage money, or understand concepts such as savings and prioritization. Instead they constantly plunk money down for the latest shiny thing on the brokers, then wax on about being broke

The biggest roadblock to plot ownership (or actually, building the house itself) is massive inflation caused by duping of items and gold. Because people can go buy 10 plat for like 30 bucks and blow their money one hwatever. It has nothing to do with savings and prioritization because when you have that much gold you can do whatever you want. Everyone else, crafters, adventurers, and harvesters alike are taking rares and putting them up on the broker for insane prices (like 10x value) or just holding on to them for themselves. Legit players who are making normal incoming from whatever they do don't have that cheat 10 plat to blow but the prices are still 10x normal making them about 10x less likely to be able to actually get what they want.

That's why most players can't get houses... it has nothing to do with their lack of good business sense.

[Gabbelgak]

Do you guys have like a fetish with ebonlore or something? Seriously, can you go one thread without bringing ebonlore up?

Was a very valid point and perfectly fit's within this thread. Ebonlore is the most visable example of exact point I was trying to make, honostly I can't even name 1 other guild that fits the bill, don't get me wrong I'm sure they are out there - but none as easily knowable by the general populace of forum goers.

[Savik]

The biggest roadblock to plot ownership (or actually, building the house itself) is massive inflation caused by duping of items and gold. Because people can go buy 10 plat for like 30 bucks and blow their money one hwatever. It has nothing to do with savings and prioritization because when you have that much gold you can do whatever you want. Everyone else, crafters, adventurers, and harvesters alike are taking rares and putting them up on the broker for insane prices (like 10x value) or just holding on to them for themselves. Legit players who are making normal incoming from whatever they do don't have that cheat 10 plat to blow but the prices are still 10x normal making them about 10x less likely to be able to actually get what they want.

That's why most players can't get houses... it has nothing to do with their lack of good business sense.

I am not saying duping does not exist, but I think you are using an illogical argument. If your primary assertion is that duping has led to an inflated circulation of currency and that everyone is affected by it (which I assume is your point since you are talking about crafters, adventurers, and harvesters), then that would imply that everyone has more money. If this is the case, duping would make it easier for everyone to afford any good or service that has a fixed (and not per capita or a priori) price.

That said, I do not think 70p plots were meant for most guilds or even half the guild. I think 70p plots, like the 5 room houses in EQ2, are meant to be the most selective of tangible rewards.

[Multiplex]

I am not saying duping does not exist, but I think you are using an illogical argument. If your primary assertion is that duping has led to an inflated circulation of currency and that everyone is affected by it (which I assume is your point since you are talking about crafters, adventurers, and harvesters), then that would imply that everyone has more money. If this is the case, duping would make it easier for everyone to afford any good or service that has a fixed (and not per capita or a priori) price.

That said, I do not think 70p plots were meant for most guilds or even half the guild. I think 70p plots, like the 5 room houses in EQ2, are meant to be the most selective of tangible rewards.

Um...

1. Players buy massive amounts gold from RMTs.
2. Prices serverwide for all goods such as mats and construction service costs not the plot cost itself go up in price.
3. Legit players continue to bring in same income plus a little extra because they can sell stuff for the inflated rates.
4. Gold buyers continue to buy tons and tons of cheap gold continuing to inflate things.
5. Legit players continue to fall behind because the value of their currency is dropping faster than they can make more currency.

[Savik]

Um...

1. Players buy massive amounts gold from RMTs.
2. Prices serverwide for all goods such as mats and construction service costs not the plot cost itself go up in price.
3. Legit players continue to bring in same income plus a little extra because they can sell stuff for the inflated rates.
4. Gold buyers continue to buy tons and tons of cheap gold continuing to inflate things.
5. Legit players continue to fall behind because the value of their currency is dropping faster than they can make more currency.

That gold they buy goes somewhere. It is used to obviously pay for the plot. But it also goes into the economy via the purchase of items, crafted goods, services etc. Since the gold goes into the economy, it increases the average of wealth of all individuals. The price of the plot does not change. Therefore, an increase in the average wealth of individuals seems to be counter to your argument.

[Hatto]

Therefore, an increase in the average wealth of individuals seems to be counter to your argument.
It does only affect the average wealth of individuals who either craft or are into trading. Those who are affected are the ones who do neither. So your argument doesn't really invalidate his.

[Multiplex]

That gold they buy goes somewhere. It is used to obviously pay for the plot. But it also goes into the economy via the purchase of items, crafted goods, services etc. Since the gold goes into the economy, it increases the average of wealth of all individuals. The price of the plot does not change. Therefore, an increase in the average wealth of individuals seems to be counter to your argument.

The rate at which the average legit player will make more money (due to selling things at higher prices) isn't going to keep up with the amount of fake/duped money entering the game. That's why legit players are all complaining right now: they can't afford the crap that's on the brokers or to pay for housing/boat mats.