High levels grouping with low levels

[suga]

If there was some kind of game mechanism to facilitate higher level toons grouping with lower level toons (see COV/COH lackey/malefactor system for example) it sure would make it easier for people to group. It would also help guild officers learn about new, young toon recruits without having to constantly re-roll low-level toons.

One of the most heard complaints I read over and over, here, in guild chat, and in region chat is that people find it hard to find groups. Fact is, its not because there's no one playing.. its often due to other people in your guild or in the game not "matching" your level.

[miir]

see COV/COH lackey/malefactor system for example

LOL, is that what they called sidekicks in COV?
Clever.

EQ2 also has a pretty robust mentoring system.

[Belrax]

I seriously think Sigil should implement something like they have in EQ2 or CoH/CoV.

This would do 2 things, get more people playing together, which is always fun. Fun makes people stay in the game and thus, continue to pay their monthly fee.

There are just a ton of adventuring ideas that could be implemented here as rewards. Bonus exp for the lower level person. An alternate, Mentor exp system or barter system that would allow the higher level person access to some decent rewards from "Mentoring NPCs" or some such. Maybe you gain faction while killing as a mentor, where your level is reduced to the level of the person your helping out. THe faction could be used to "buy" items.

The sidekick idea would be a nice addition as well. Where your level is raised to be within a few levels of the higher lvl mentor, thus scaling your abilities to do damage, heal, etc. at a much higher level. This way lowbies in a guild can go out an adventure with their friends.

Have fun and exp with your friends no matter the level? That might just save this game from extinction.

[The_Dark_Knight]

People don't group because they don't have to. It's the WoW / EQ2 zerg mechanic, Vanguard style. Solo or duo your way to max level! Don't have a tank? No problem, you don't need one!

[Zarthaine]

People don't group because they don't have to. It's the WoW / EQ2 zerg mechanic, Vanguard style. Solo or duo your way to max level! Don't have a tank? No problem, you don't need one!


Interesting choice of contradicting words.

Zerging = taking a large group of people to wipe out a target easily because of the numbers.

Soloing = Do I really have to explain?

There have always been classes in every game that don't need a group for the majority of their play. If you choose a class that requires a group, you made that choice, live with it. I much prefer this to the "Holy Trinity Core" of EQ-1 (Tank/Healer/Slower) that prevented many groups from happening and broke up even more groups when one of the three required classes had to leave.

[khronicle]

Interesting choice of contradicting words.

Zerging = taking a large group of people to wipe out a target easily because of the numbers.

Soloing = Do I really have to explain?

There have always been classes in every game that don't need a group for the majority of their play. If you choose a class that requires a group, you made that choice, live with it. I much prefer this to the "Holy Trinity Core" of EQ-1 (Tank/Healer/Slower) that prevented many groups from happening and broke up even more groups when one of the three required classes had to leave.

Call me an EQ1 loyalist, but the fact that you can't access most content soloing or duoing in Vanguard is something I consider a great thing.

Solo content = No challenge
Duo content = No challenge
Group content = Mild challenge
24-man Raid content = Good challenge
48-54 man Raid content = Great Challenge

That's what I look for in an MMO. If this game goes too easy like WoW, I couldn't justify staying.

[Zarthaine]

People don't group because they don't have to. It's the WoW / EQ2 zerg mechanic, Vanguard style. Solo or duo your way to max level! Don't have a tank? No problem, you don't need one!

Call me an EQ1 loyalist, but the fact that you can't access most content soloing or duoing in Vanguard is something I consider a great thing.

Solo content = No challenge
Duo content = No challenge
Group content = Mild challenge
24-man Raid content = Good challenge
48-54 man Raid content = Great Challenge

That's what I look for in an MMO. If this game goes too easy like WoW, I couldn't justify staying.


Oh, I agree with you totally, having come from almost Beta EQ-1 and having been a part of one of the top raiding guilds. The rewards in all of these games, VG included are never as great when you solo. I just enjoy a mix almost exactly like the one you listed; in that meaning that you can level up and play solo, it's just not as rewarding and challenging. Far too many posters would like to see a game where you group or forget about playing which is not good either.

[Barricade]

If there was some kind of game mechanism to facilitate higher level toons grouping with lower level toons (see COV/COH lackey/malefactor system for example) it sure would make it easier for people to group. It would also help guild officers learn about new, young toon recruits without having to constantly re-roll low-level toons.

One of the most heard complaints I read over and over, here, in guild chat, and in region chat is that people find it hard to find groups. Fact is, its not because there's no one playing.. its often due to other people in your guild or in the game not "matching" your level.

To get the thread back on track.. :)

Yes, totally agree! I used this feature often in EQ2 to group with friends who had lower level characters and to also go back and explore dungeons and areas I had never seen before.

I value this as a feature much more than their soon to be released fellowship system which I doubt I would ever use.

[khronicle]

To get the thread back on track.. :)

Yes, totally agree! I used this feature often in EQ2 to group with friends who had lower level characters and to also go back and explore dungeons and areas I had never seen before.

I value this as a feature much more than their soon to be released fellowship system which I doubt I would ever use.

If this was all possible, it would make the lower levels pointless. All of the lower level content would go to waste, and the max lvl would not be an accomplishment. This would essentially make a supported power levelling system... I can't see any value to it. I think it would be more of a detriment to the game than anything else.

[Barricade]

If this was all possible, it would make the lower levels pointless. All of the lower level content would go to waste, and the max lvl would not be an accomplishment. This would essentially make a supported power levelling system... I can't see any value to it. I think it would be more of a detriment to the game than anything else.

Have to disagree. The implementation of the mentoring system in EQ2 did not eventuate to what you describe. Have you been exposed to a feature like this yourself?

[khronicle]

Have to disagree. The implementation of the mentoring system in EQ2 did not eventuate to what you describe. Have you been exposed to a feature like this yourself?

No, I have yet to experience this, but in theory it sounds very flawed.

I don't want to see lvl 10's grouping with level 50's. I don't want that content accessible to a level 10.

Perhaps a lvl 50 could shroud like on EQ1 to be lower and group with a friend, effectively making him lvl 10 temporarily in order to group with the friend and assist him in levelling, but in no way benefitting the lvl 50, that could be plausible.

[Danstras]

If this was all possible, it would make the lower levels pointless. All of the lower level content would go to waste, and the max lvl would not be an accomplishment. This would essentially make a supported power levelling system... I can't see any value to it. I think it would be more of a detriment to the game than anything else.

Wow that a vivid imagination there. I am sorry to say that you are wrong my friend. Nobody power lvls with mentoring the ex, skills and lvl are all scaled the 50 becomes a 20 or 10. The lower lvls were being done over again by higher lvls helping people and yes lvl 50 still meant what it had meant before.

The best thing EQ2 did was the mentoring system and many people were able to group together that never had grouped before. It was awesome to be able to group with guildies that wanted a group and couldn't find one. Also at higher lvls and helping someone you could re live lower lvl stuff you might have missed or just wanted to see again without having to make an alt.

I have heard many, many times ingame from people that wish this system was in this game it is for sure a better idea than fellowships.

[Drool]

People don't group because they don't have to. It's the WoW / EQ2 zerg mechanic, Vanguard style. Solo or duo your way to max level! Don't have a tank? No problem, you don't need one!

Come again?

[khronicle]

Wow that a vivid imagination there. I am sorry to say that you are wrong my friend. Nobody power lvls with mentoring the ex, skills and lvl are all scaled the 50 becomes a 20 or 10. The lower lvls were being done over again by higher lvls helping people and yes lvl 50 still meant what it had meant before.

The best thing EQ2 did was the mentoring system and many people were able to group together that never had grouped before. It was awesome to be able to group with guildies that wanted a group and couldn't find one. Also at higher lvls and helping someone you could re live lower lvl stuff you might have missed or just wanted to see again without having to make an alt.

I have heard many, many times ingame from people that wish this system was in this game it is for sure a better idea than fellowships.


So they effectively did what I explained in the 2nd part of my post?

[Barricade]

Perhaps a lvl 50 could shroud like on EQ1 to be lower and group with a friend, effectively making him lvl 10 temporarily in order to group with the friend and assist him in levelling, but in no way benefitting the lvl 50, that could be plausible.

Yes, this is all the mentoring system allowed. It does not allow a lower level to beef themselves up to be a higher level.

[khronicle]

Yes, this is all the mentoring system allowed. It does not allow a lower level to beef themselves up to be a higher level.

I have no beef with that. Mentor on. :)

[Fel Whisper]

I have no beef with that. Mentor on. :)

It works great in the CoX games. The higher level takes a hit as skills and abilities that are above what they are "capped" at while mentoring are not accessable, making it a lot of fun and not a total cakewalk. Your lvl 50 Defender becomes a level 15 if that is who you are helping.

Not sure how this would work in a gear-based game. Easy to turn things on and off in CoX, not so much here.

Can someone expound on how EQ2 handles the gear differentials?

-W

[ander]

Call me an EQ1 loyalist, but the fact that you can't access most content soloing or duoing in Vanguard is something I consider a great thing.

Solo content = No challenge
Duo content = No challenge
Group content = Mild challenge
24-man Raid content = Good challenge
48-54 man Raid content = Great Challenge

That's what I look for in an MMO. If this game goes too easy like WoW, I couldn't justify staying.

I find raids so challenging I fall asleep in them :D

Its all a question of understanding the game mechanics of a raid, once you done that, the only thing left challenging is PVP.

This is why I think Ill enjoy raids in Vanguard, because you never know when an enemy raid group will come in while your taking down a mob.

[Hatto]

Mentoring will first and foremost achieve one thing, it will completly ruin pickup groups. Its something guilds and static groups want so they don't need to bother with people they don't know. Yet another step to reduce social life in a MMO.

The main reason people don't group is that its difficult to find a group still, due to size of the world compared to the amount of people playing and that its faster to solo for most of the classes and more rewarding on the money side of things. And of course the attitude to play only with guild or static that is very strong in VG.

[khronicle]

I find raids so challenging I fall asleep in them :D

Its all a question of understanding the game mechanics of a raid, once you done that, the only thing left challenging is PVP.

This is why I think Ill enjoy raids in Vanguard, because you never know when an enemy raid group will come in while your taking down a mob.

I came from vallon zek and I still don't see any challenge in PVP. You learn what to do and after that, it's all timing. The challenge with raiding is that there is always some sort of more difficult encounter waiting ahead of you. Something you will have to prepare your whole guild for, something that will take a lot of focus, and something that everyone is going to have to do almost perfect in order to pull off.

You never learn the game so well that no encounter you approach is a challenge. It doesn't work that way. There's always something around the next corner that's going to kick your ass.

[Bima]

It works great in the CoX games. The higher level takes a hit as skills and abilities that are above what they are "capped" at while mentoring are not accessable, making it a lot of fun and not a total cakewalk. Your lvl 50 Defender becomes a level 15 if that is who you are helping.

Not sure how this would work in a gear-based game. Easy to turn things on and off in CoX, not so much here.

Can someone expound on how EQ2 handles the gear differentials?

-W

In EQ2 gear also get scaled down too.

[greymain]

Best example of mixed level grouping was in Horizons. They had a scaled reward system depending on your level related to the mobs being attacked.

It was never the most efficient method of gaining exp that was still a group taking on content 3 or 4 levels above you. It was however great fun and did greatly reduce LFG problems especially in guilds. It extended the life of content in that areas at all levels were available to all players although given the agro circle of a level 10 in a level 50 zone the word "bait" might best describe the noob experience.

Telon is a big big world and by design everyone is scattered all over the place. I do not think a better LFG tool will solve anything. But extending the range of levels in groups would harm noone and increase the social aspect of guilds.

[Rhiwienne]

Mentoring will first and foremost achieve one thing, it will completly ruin pickup groups. Its something guilds and static groups want so they don't need to bother with people they don't know. Yet another step to reduce social life in a MMO.

The main reason people don't group is that its difficult to find a group still, due to size of the world compared to the amount of people playing and that its faster to solo for most of the classes and more rewarding on the money side of things. And of course the attitude to play only with guild or static that is very strong in VG.

I disagree here. There are still people around that are willing to help lower levels... or who missed out content in specific areas. I've seen it alot in EQ2 when I was playing. Mentoring never was a guild / friends exclusive thing. Friendly people mentored down in pick up groups, yes believe it or not.. even in pick up groups. Why ? Well maye they are just helpfull guys and girls or just wanted to socialize etc.
I really don't think that it would ruin pick up groups at all.

[Puffy]

If this was all possible, it would make the lower levels pointless. All of the lower level content would go to waste, and the max lvl would not be an accomplishment. This would essentially make a supported power levelling system... I can't see any value to it. I think it would be more of a detriment to the game than anything else.

1) Dont be too confident in yourself

2) Learn from history, see what works and what doesnt

3) Implement Mentoring.

[Kelmino]

I really wished they implemented a mentoring system similar to EQ2's. I have never played EQ2, but from what I hear about this feature it sounds great.

Sure it might hurt pickup groups, but I'd rather group with guildies any day over a pickup group. You meet more people in a pickup group, but I have much more fun in guild groups then pickups any day of the week.

Now the only problem with this is, it would need to be implemented fairly soon. Whats the point really 6 months down the road when everyone is already to 50 (except for alts)

[miir]

Mentoring will first and foremost achieve one thing, it will completly ruin pickup groups. Its something guilds and static groups want so they don't need to bother with people they don't know. Yet another step to reduce social life in a MMO.


Oh absolutely not!
In EQ2 you would often find higher levels forming up groups with lower level friends who were either leveling up alts or who had just started the game and picking up other players to flexh out their groups.

Let's say youre forming a pickup group you have a tank and a few DPSers but no healer around that level is available... Just log on your XX leveled fury or inquisitor, etc and mentor down!
Or lets say you want to finish up some lower level quests and you want to get some AA XP for them... start looking for a group in the desired area saying that you will mentor down to the group!


Mentoring was one of the absolute best features in EQ2. It encourages grouping, it encourages people to use lower level content. It gives higher level people the freedom to group with players in all other level ranges.

[Multiplex]

Mentoring in EQ2 rocked the casbah... I was always able to group with friend and it was a blast to go back and do content again while mentored.

[miir]

Now the only problem with this is, it would need to be implemented fairly soon. Whats the point really 6 months down the road when everyone is already to 50 (except for alts)

One of the biggest problems for people starting MMOGs after release is that there is not enough people to group with at lower levels. Even 6 months down the road would be fine because if new players are starting Vanguard it would make more players available to group.