Clerics are overpowered

[Skilganon]

Ok I'm not sure if it's the recent buffs they got with the latest patch, but does anyone else get the feeling that clerics are way overpowered in PVP? I got owned hard by a 39 cleric today, and I am a 42 DK.

His normal moves we're doing around about 1k damage and it always seem to hit twice... can't remember the name excatly but it was virtue or something or rather.

Mind you my word of doom is hit him for around about 1500 and this spell is on a 5 min timer... this is with max int points spent in attributes.

But after offloading everything i had... WoD, apothic shield, giant racial, this guy still ended up killing me under 15 seconds and apothic shield makes me immune for 10 seconds.

I mean wtf is up with that? they already pretty much have the best mitigation, buffs, and heals, and now damage too? I threw everything i had at him and he didn't even drop half a bubble in health.

I tried again a couple more times and the results were the same, leaving me dead and the cleric didn't even break a sweat. To make it worse in my last encounter with him, a 43 ranger saw us fighting and decided to give me a hand.... and guess what the result was... i went down and the ranger went down shortly after, I think the cleric lost 1/3 bubble of health at the most taking on the two of us....

Atleast when fighting necro's and sorcs i can win some, or i can loose some, but I didn't see anyway possible of being able to take this cleric down.

Yes it pisses me off that a healer based class is out damaging me, and yes it pisses me off they can take hits better than me. I mean what's the point of even playing a tank, when a healer can obviously do a much better job at taking damage than i can?

[Miff]

Working as intended.

[Founder Apache]

Working as intended.

When he assisted he should have thrown out silencing shot - not sure if this is a true story - no offense.

[Cobalty2004]

This is what happens when two devs create classes and don't even ****ing talk to eachother.

I take it the cleric was War. 3 400% chains that have a higher modifier than the warrior versions. 30% O-stance. And some heal on block buffs... yea....

[Seven_PRX]

The 2-hit ability is on a 10 minute Recast timer, and only lasts 30 seconds (or less, I forgot).

So while it is very nice, you can't 'count' on the ability. Compare it to a racial abilities, they are nice, but again, you can't always use them because of the long cooldown time.

And another correction:

Clerics do NOT have the best Mitigiation. I have both a Cleric & a DK, and a DK has by FAR A LOT better Mitigation. Cleric mitigation got nerfed many months back. Actually a BM in CLOTH has more Mitigation than a Cleric in PLATE :)

So if you think a Cleric can take hits better than you can: than you are either doing something wrong, or have crap armor.

[Cobalty2004]

The 2-hit ability is on a 10 minute Recast timer, and only lasts 30 seconds (or less, I forgot).

So while it is very nice, you can't 'count' on the ability. Compare it to a racial abilities, they are nice, but again, you can't always use them because of the long cooldown time.

And another correction:

Clerics do NOT have the best Mitigiation. I have both a Cleric & a DK, and a DK has by FAR A LOT better Mitigation. Cleric mitigation got nerfed many months back. Actually a BM in CLOTH has more Mitigation than a Cleric in PLATE :)

So if you think a Cleric can take hits better than you can: than you are either doing something wrong, or have crap armor.

They have cool HoTs and reactives though

[BigPapaBruno]

I'm glad I don't have to log onto an alt to kill people now... one word.. DEATH.

[Skilganon]

The 2-hit ability is on a 10 minute Recast timer, and only lasts 30 seconds (or less, I forgot).

So while it is very nice, you can't 'count' on the ability. Compare it to a racial abilities, they are nice, but again, you can't always use them because of the long cooldown time.

And another correction:

Clerics do NOT have the best Mitigiation. I have both a Cleric & a DK, and a DK has by FAR A LOT better Mitigation. Cleric mitigation got nerfed many months back. Actually a BM in CLOTH has more Mitigation than a Cleric in PLATE :)

So if you think a Cleric can take hits better than you can: than you are either doing something wrong, or have crap armor.

It seemed like it was a lot faster than a 10 min refresh ability to me. He managed to pull it off in both fights in under 10 mins, and the only reason i know this is because I blew WoD in the first fight. It wasn't refreshed by the time we engaged again. and WoD is on a 5 min refresh timer. the first fight it did 2x 1k ish damage, second fight he did around about 2x 800 ish.

But the point i was trying to make is that being out melee'd by a cleric is a joke.

[Smedy]

It seemed like it was a lot faster than a 10 min refresh ability to me. He managed to pull it off in both fights in under 10 mins, and the only reason i know this is because I blew WoD in the first fight. It wasn't refreshed by the time we engaged again. and WoD is on a 5 min refresh timer. the first fight it did 2x 1k ish damage, second fight he did around about 2x 800 ish.

But the point i was trying to make is that being out melee'd by a cleric is a joke.

SOE has taken over, what the hell do you expect. They are making every move they can to make this game more like WoW. Yes cleric got shadowform in the recent patch, i havent played in over a month but i still lurk the forums harrr!

Just reroll ;)

[Seven_PRX]

It seemed like it was a lot faster than a 10 min refresh ability to me. He managed to pull it off in both fights in under 10 mins, and the only reason i know this is because I blew WoD in the first fight. It wasn't refreshed by the time we engaged again. and WoD is on a 5 min refresh timer. the first fight it did 2x 1k ish damage, second fight he did around about 2x 800 ish.

But the point i was trying to make is that being out melee'd by a cleric is a joke.

Well, it really is on a 10 minutes recast timer :-) Maybe he used some bug?

FYI: I have a Cleric and a DK too. And fighting a healing class with a DK is hell. It's not just Clerics though, the same counts for all classes that can heal (except Druids, they drop easily).

[Cobalty2004]

Well, it really is on a 10 minutes recast timer :-) Maybe he used some bug?

FYI: I have a Cleric and a DK too. And fighting a healing class with a DK is hell. It's not just Clerics though, the same counts for all classes that can heal (except Druids, they drop easily).

I thought druids can one shot people.

[Skilganon]

Well, it really is on a 10 minutes recast timer :-) Maybe he used some bug?

FYI: I have a Cleric and a DK too. And fighting a healing class with a DK is hell. It's not just Clerics though, the same counts for all classes that can heal (except Druids, they drop easily).

Lol i know that fighting healing classes with a DK is difficult, the only times you can beat one is if you get lucky with chains, stuns, and a high crit on WoD. But atleast in those fights there was a "slight" chance of being able to win.

Having a fight end in a series of 5 or so hits from a cleric and being able to do nothing about it? Priceless.

I had hoped that one day this game may turn around and become something decent, but i have given up. The game has become a joke, yes it was never meant to be a pure pvp type of game, but they did release pvp servers so they should have paid abit more attention to balancing it out.

The pvp in lower levels was fun, fights lasted forever and it was back and forth between the two combatants waiting to capitalize on the others mistake.

End game.... what end game? Grind 12k faction with this so and so and then go hunt for rares and hopefully after you have spent 30+ hours getting whatever you needed you have yourself a legendary item.. Oh but wait that weapon or armor that you worked so hard for now is a piece of shit compared to level 50 blues, and yellows.

Lol anyways enough of ranting, my account expires tomorrow and i will be glad about it too! =)

[Seven_PRX]

Copy/paste:

Check out the description;

http://vanguard.station.sony.com/

A servant of the divine, the Cleric heeds the call of his deity in all things. For this devotion the Cleric is able to share a portion of the power of his god. These powers manifest themselves in the form of powerful healing spells that enable him to tend to fallen and wounded allies. He is also granted mighty destructive spells that enable him to punish those who would defy his masters will. Clerics are also capable melee combatants.

[kuzseamer]

the problem is that your fighting a healing class...so they can heal. my pvp experience in past games has taught me that you simply cna't go wrong with healing. that's why i picked cleric right of the bat....

hmm...maybe they'll come out with better healing foods...or maybe they have them already for when you in combat? idk, but that might really help the protective classes no? something like the old SWG where you could eat so much food, then your stomach is full...ok i'm rambling

[Pheebau]

I thought druids can one shot people.
No - funny but I have been 1-shot many times as a druid and not by druids...

[Echonaz]

You mean a melee fighting, spellcasting, buffing, major healing class isnt balanced in pvp? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?!?!?!

Seriously though, when I heard about Sigils vision on healing classes, my first thought was that it would never work in pvp.

And it doesnt.

[Skilganon]

Here is a nice post that I found by a cleric....

I'm a level 50 cleric, very well geared out.

I'm death affinity, though i never use the stance.

I have had my group in rahz inkur take out the guards for Rahluz, and maiden overseer, both of these are level52+ 5-6 dot named mobs.

I've soloed them with no buffs but my own. No help but my own.


I've always thought of my class as balanced, the only thing we ever needed was affinities, which they gave us and if they stopped there we would have been happy.

Right now giving us affinites AND upping our dps by this much, is overpowering.

No class should be able to solo 6 dot level 52 mobs.

Still think that the class isn't overpowered??

[Hanzou_Masamori]

Just reposting this response of mine from another thread, but this is my thoughts on the subject as someone who has a level 40 War Cleric:

Ive suggested this on other forums, and Ill suggest it here as well, they need to reinstitute a reuse timer on Rout and Bloodhammer attack series. Im not sure if people realize it... but prior to the Affinity patch clerics big 300 percent finisher- Rout, had a 1 minute reuse so you couldnt use it as much as you wanted. They also added two basic attack lines, one a dot based melee strike, and the other a low damage bashing attack with a chance to stun. This was to help Clerics out on the DPS side of things.

At the same time the War Affinity granted a 400 percent finisher series (Bloodhammer), which also has no reuse timer to Clerics who choose that path. The War finisher has an advanced finisher attached to that as well, which is another 400 percent finisher. Which is fine honestly for a DPS path, but there is no reuse timer, so you get in situations where a Cleric with a high DEX can chain that combination indefinately. The same goes for Rout, but on a little bit smaller scale, War Clerics will NEVER use Rout with the way it is currently set up. Since it is inferior damage, and doesnt have a followup finisher like Bloodhammer does.

People like to complain about the Cleric's War Affinity offense stance, but really thats not the issue. The War stance only offers a real differance of 15 percent extra DPS from the old basic Cleric offense stance, and has a -75 percent healing penalty as well as a hidden X2 casting speed penalty (not listed in the stance). The stances negatives balance out the positives, and its not the auto attack DPS I assure you, where clerics are dealing great damage- it IS the finishers. The two paths people have the most issue with seems to be Death and War, and I assure you, that is due to the DPS. The Affinities of Preservation, Peace, and Purity are all fairly enough balanced.

I propose the attack "Rout" be moved to a 30 second timer, better then the old reuse of 1 minute but something that should be in place to prevent chaining. Bloodhammer and its follow up attacks should be moved to a 30 second OR 1 minute timer- for the same reasons as Rout. This will also give War Clerics a reason to use Rout as an attack outside of their other abilities, since they will not always have Bloodhammer up, and it will slow and even out their DPS as well, moving them more into the intended range for an "Offensive Healer". Hope that sheds some light on the issue a bit.

As for PVP, I play a 44 Monk and a 40 Cleric on Varking and I will say one thing- PVP is completely unbalanced at the moment. They have admited (prior to the SOE take over) that they dont have a PVP team which can make the changes that they need to at the moment. There are alot of things they could do to fix up PVP and there are many things they have stated were planned for PVP but they have not implemented any of them yet. For example; Heal potions for melees would be nice, with cooldowns, and more interupts/stuns/knockbacks on some defensive/offensive fighter attacks would help alot. All priests by their nature are hard to take down, thats what happens when someone can heal, but with the current imbalances in the PVP rulesets themselves this is compounded further.

Abilities in Vanguard can be altered for PVP in ways which dont effect their PVE effectiveness, they have stated this in the past and yet no abilities have really been tuned in such a way. Heals and damaging abilities can be reduced in effectiveness to increase fight duration without effecting their functionality in PVE but they have not. As it is now most people can be one or two shoted by alot of classes, and that really doesnt make for very interesting or challenging PVP fights (be it you or the person getting one shoted).

Being realistic about the game in its current state helps alot when you consider the state of the game in PVP; the PVE aspect isnt even balanced out yet, so how can they possibly balance out the PVP properly, ya know?

[bubbabelushi]

You know a class is way overpowered when people who play that class openly admit it hehe

I applaud their honesty, it's nice to see.

I was watching a level 50 cleric from Ebonlore in Southwatch killing, err no, murdering groups of other level 50's on the weekend. Shamans, Druids, Necros, Dk's, Bards, BMs, Sorcs.......i don't see a rock scissors paper system here, other than the cleric is Scissors and all the other classes are paper lol

I just hope the Devs don't swing the nerf bat too hard and make them useless, it's nice seeing so many Clerics about, they just need a little bit of a tone down, like some timers on their dps nukes, essentially at the moment they are Plate wearing Druids with unlimited health.

[Seven_PRX]

The Cleric War melee chain is really nice & powerful.

But you have to think about this:

1) I have to get a crit of, thats 1 hit, which is doable
2) then I have to get the 1st in the chain
3) the 2nd
4) the 3rd

Now, that's 4 hits. In PvP ppl tend to run around a lot, and stunning/mezzing. So usually in PvP, you don't come further than the first 2 hits. Getting the entire chain off would only work if your target would be standing still, which does not happen a lot :-)

And re the lvl 50 killing groups of 50's: that's not possible. A Cleric can engage only 1 target at a time, and has no mez spells. So he will never be able to take on a full group and kill them. Now, I have seen Ebonlore guys using speedhacks & other cheats, in that case it would be possible :)

And about soloing 5/6 dots: tell me how it's done. At lvl 49 I can solo 46/47 4 dots, but it takes a while, and can be dangerous. So no way am I going to solo a 5/6 dot higher level than me. Only classes that can are Shamans (Phoenix), Necro's & Druids, perhaps Sorcerors & Psi's too. Oh, all casting classes, how odd... Those are the real overpowered classes, and have been for a long time.

-7

[BigPapaBruno]

Depending on the classes you engage you can take out numerous people. Yesterday I molested a 46 dk and a 30 something bard. A 50 warrior couldn't kill me without a lowbie sorc chain mezzing me at level 42. You just have to use your roots, snares, and stuns. Taking out the ones you will kill the fastest helps in a situation where there are no mobs involved just straight up pvp.

[shermhead]

lol im a 44 war cleric and pwn all melee in the game... it was like that before the patch and now I just kill them much quicker.

Dont know if you guys ever rolled thinking "ima be a goog pvper!" but, you guys arent.. soo sorry.. do you see me crying on the boards everytime a druid insta kills me with starfall or I get put to sleep by a sorc for 30 minutes until his pals can run to the zone and kill me?

[BigPapaBruno]

lol im a 44 war cleric and pwn all melee in the game... it was like that before the patch and now I just kill them much quicker.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________


That is the truth. The only melee that can kill me sometimes are rangers that speed hack and sometimes they are bouncing around everywhere on the screen. I have no idea wtf it is but they warp to a different location and I can't root them. This only happens with rangers usually.

[warakus]

Clerics having to get chains off is no different then other melees. DKs have the same issues in PVP with the chains we have and people moving or stunning or whatever happens. The thing is we dont have the duality that clerics or other healers have... for instance shamans can DPS just as good or better then alot of melee DPS classes especially in PVP where like was said people jump around alot. They can actually do more. Clerics now melee on par with or out melee tanks yet still heal like clerics.

Im not saying its just clerics, its just another hard hitting item to add to the list for the melees in this game that leaves us in the dust. Now imagine they add the 40% damage rule... what healer would ever die in pvp to less then a group or stacked DPS classes focus firing.... vs one class.

It seems like mana regen and use is just nuts. It is very hard to run a healer out of energy. They simply outlast us even without the dps... now they can melee us to death with very few heals.... not sure how this can be fixed without upsetting the whole PVE game.

We cant just pick on healers imho. Not without looking at sorcs and metoer shower or druids with 2 sec recast starfalls. Lots can be done to make PVP better but I think until we address energy regen in some form nerfing damage would make healers even more insane.

I hope they find a way to make it a tad better without nerfing fun classes like clerics shamans.

[BigPapaBruno]

I'll tell you where Sigil went wrong initially. Damage in this game was way too high to begin with (My level 10 warrior hit for 900 damage). It is extremely hard to balance out the damage in a game when you are doing ridiculous ammount of damage like this. The damage in this game is exactly like it is in WoW. If the damage was on a lower scale like on EQ it would be a ton easier to make classes balanced and happy in pvp. By happy I mean it actually takes some coordination and using some kind of tactic to take down your opponent and not just some ridiculous burst damage. That's all it is right now is who does the most damage. Mitigation, defense, and resists go right out the window.

To be honest, I don't think they can fix the pvp in this game for the specific reason I just stated. The damage is just way to high. They would have to completely restructure the entire game to make this pvp balance. Expect it it just be a fast paced pvp game like WoW, especially since people are just getting better gear.

[Celidya]

Soloing 5 or 6 dots is in no way a critera on being overpowered. In fact most of the classes can do it as long as they have enough time to do so, which is, let's face it, not very often since it takes a while.

For the record, i have a 46 druid. I killed a 6 dots 2 lvl higher than me at lvl 33, then a 6 dots 5 lvl higher than me (that means, a PURPLE 6 dots) at lvl 37. Then about any 6 dots i can see as long as he's outside of a dungeon, adds do not matter much, only the room to kite.

I have a 41 DK, i can kill 5 dot named my lvl or higher, and i don't even have very good gear (mostly rare crafted gear since i only solo), i bet i could take a 6 dots if it's not immune to everything and i have better gear, and it's my level or below. Tanks have much more trouble against mobs higher level due to the miss rate.

My 40 ranger can kill 5 dots mobs 4 lvl higher, and probably would kill 6 dots too although i don't try, with the mobs pathing bug it's too boring and dangerous.

My 38 sorc could take 5 dots too and maybe more if i wasn't too lazy and i could go farm for the speed mask, levitation cloak, and willing to spend one hour running in circle and casting a spell once in a while to kill a mob with a ton of HP while waiting for mana regen.

And the list goes long, while i don't have all classes past lvl 35 yet, they almost all have the tools to kite. And if you can kite, you can kill about anything. Sure, some classes do it easier than the others: heals, levi, buffs, dots, pets are a bonus. But give a run speed buff to a monk and they could solo 6 dots with their shurikens.

If you stop grouping all the time and just follow the others to get exp and loot and try to do things by yourselves, learn the tricks and how to be effective at soloing, then you'll quickly realize how overpowered are most of the classes as long as you play them well. But now of course if you go with a 2 handed on your DK trying to deal more dps than the mob you'll die even against a 4 dots, if you're trying to CV the mob to death you'll die with your sorc, and whatever... Just play smart and everything is doable. Well, everything the computer can handle. I could kite 50 mobs of the same lvl at once with my ranger and kill them, but my computer died when i broke the 25 mark, although i managed to kill them all i had about 2 fps and it took me 15Min due to the terrible lag.

This is not to say clerics are more overpowered or less than the others, i don't know yet, my cleric is only lvl 15 for now and nothing amazing. In fact i doubt it will ever be overpowered, at best it can do what other classes can do, in a slower way. No speed, no high mana regen, no levi, no very efficient ranged attacks. By far not the most overpowered class around.

[VChateau]

My main is a BM. Any healing class has to be killed multiple times to effectively be killed once due to how easy it is for a healing class to get back to full or near full health. If healing were brought down to 50% in PvP it would make a huge difference because during that time damage could be taken by the healer trying to heal them self. Let say that a Healer whlie casting a heal that heals for 70% of total hp takes in 25% of total hp in dmg. Thats a net gain of 45%. If said heal was for 35% (half) then the net gain would be 10% (just an example w/ random #'s). Clerics prepatch post 40 pvp game was like WoW paladins. Also, mitigation doesn't really come into play until post 40. I think that changes will be made to the functions of mitigation.. especially since mit caps have been reached for quite a while now. If I had my way I would make dmg10%, heals 10%, and reduce mana and end cost by 50% for PvP for more epic longer larger battles.

[BalduranFaerun]

Soloing 5 or 6 dots is in no way a critera on being overpowered. In fact most of the classes can do it as long as they have enough time to do so, which is, let's face it, not very often since it takes a while.
.

yeah only if you can one hit an entire zone then it is overpowered or what are you talking about?!

same level:
3dots should have been a small group encounter or solo like 50% chance to survive
4dots only small group
5dots full group
6dots one or more full groups

so they should nerf the crap out of each class who can solo such mobs
and if all class can do it nerf all classes
or increase the power of mobs dramatically which would be nearly the same as nerfing classes :D


-cc immunity timers would be the first step (actual cc time * 3 for duration)
-much higher resists on all mobs from 3-6 dots infact 6 dots should have a near 90% chance to resist

then to the cleric I think the stances should have a 2-5minute cooldown
this way the tradeoffs are really tradeoffs and not a joke ...

oh damn I need to heal and I m in war stance ahh I have macroed stance dance to my heal awesome no tradeoffs at all

in pvp I would like to see much higher interrupts
daoc was a little to much where every what so ever abiltie would interrupt casting
but I would say let all higher meele dmg interrupt casting
and perhaps a 50% chance on higher cast dmg or ranged dmg to interrupt

this would open the game for much better tactical gameplay and increase the overall fun

[warakus]

I seriously dont see how someone can level a char to 15 then speak like they are an authority on the subject based off THAT experience.

The way I have seen it is that it changes from different levels some classes might rock at 20 then they become weak at 28 when opposing classes get new better spells abilities then it swings back again... What really counts is how it stacks at 50.

50 a druid can kill just about any class pretty fast. My vite would have been a 10 second timer on SF... but then they would never kill any healers... kind of unfair that way but vs anyone else more then fair.

50 Sorc and meteor storm... I mean COME ON! what were they thinking allowing it to hit so hard ( this one spell will wipe a group of 50s ) stun and dot... all crits unless the sorc is silly. Kind of unbalancing to be able to kill a whole group with one spell (yes it takes 6 seconds but with invis working like stealth... well you know)

To me allthough killable those are the 2 bad boys at this point.

Bard invis.... BMG buffs..... Cleric melee heals and plate.... its hard to know where to begin. The fights are too quick.... but if we nerf dmg then healers will be even more over powered.... if we nerf heals then will that open people to being griefed on mobs? Like I said... to me it isnt the size of the heals.. its the quantity one healer can spew out during a fight.... Very rarely at 50 do healers who heal in PVP and conserve energy run out of energy... then they can run off regen it back quick and get back in the fight. I think we need to slow down regen rates and make pvp combat last until someone is dead or they chunk so you cant regen or put a 2 min timer once out of combat range. (Please also fix the combat thing when your opponent dies so we can stealth regen invis ect)

Then if energy regen is nerfed.. we might can nerf damage so a healer has to choose dmg or heals in a fight because they cant do alot of both.

I have to say also I was kind of suprised people from the old eq team let classes start out young as power houses... i think this also kind of made things worse since everyone wants to improve... at level 10 hitting melee for 500 or more then at 20 for 1200 so on and so forth made the whole thing crazy. Giving mobs too many darn hit points was a bad move too.... because players have to hit hard like that to get anywhere.... nothing new or dynamic about that.

[Seven_PRX]

Clerics are somwhere in the middle of the PvP ladder. The top 4 classes are all casting classes:

Necro, Shaman (Phoenix), Sorceror & Druid.

Why people are yelling Nerf Clerics I don't understand, as Cleric don't go around killing people in 5 seconds, while the above classes can & do :-)

[Seven_PRX]

Quote by Sigil Class Lead Venge:

I've worked with different clerics, each from the different affinities, and for those claiming they can dps close or more than a warrior. I would have to say that you are fooling yourself. This goes to dk, paladin, or warriors. I have not seen any hard proof. Yes the war cleric stance looks "nice" but as far as making them a tank is foolish and down right incorrect. Their stance may give them 30% damage, block, and what not. However even with it, they still do not come close to a warrior's dps, not even remotely. The stance is nice, but not all clerics have it and its optional and must be chosen out of 4 other options. Besides, ours has no penalty to our primary job, their's do.


So, no nerf needed for Clerics, it's official.

[Gecon]

I got owned hard by a 39 cleric today, and I am a 42 DK. So what ? DRKs get owned by healers in Vanguard. Nothing new.

To make it worse in my last encounter with him, a 43 ranger saw us fighting and decided to give me a hand.... and guess what the result was... i went down and the ranger went down shortly after, I think the cleric lost 1/3 bubble of health at the most taking on the two of us.... Why hasnt that ranger just silenced the Cleric with a bow, making him easy prey ?

Atleast when fighting necro's and sorcs i can win some, or i can loose some, but I didn't see anyway possible of being able to take this cleric down. Which is something clerics cant do, for all I heard.

SOE has taken over, what the hell do you expect. Everyone knows SoE took over AFTER the Patch 1835.

They have cool HoTs and reactives though Except that Clerics have no reactive heals. Thats what Shammys get, instead of HoTs.

I thought druids can one shot people. Druids aren't healers in Vanguard.

Ive suggested this on other forums, and Ill suggest it here as well, they need to reinstitute a reuse timer on Rout and Bloodhammer attack series. I second that part. Also there should be again a timer on Maul of Divinity, our group buff finisher.

As for PVP, I play a 44 Monk and a 40 Cleric on Varking and I will say one thing- PVP is completely unbalanced at the moment. Yeah, thats wellknown.

[Gecon]

And about soloing 5/6 dots: tell me how it's done. At lvl 49 I can solo 46/47 4 dots, but it takes a while, and can be dangerous. Uber gear, and probably also a PvP skilling (+5 Str, +4 Dex, +5 Vit instead of the usual +5 Vit, +5 Wis, rest on Str/Dex/whatever).

[david99]

Clerics are somwhere in the middle of the PvP ladder. The top 4 classes are all casting classes:

Necro, Shaman (Phoenix), Sorceror & Druid.

Why people are yelling Nerf Clerics I don't understand, as Cleric don't go around killing people in 5 seconds, while the above classes can & do :-)

The problem is cleric's are HEALERS. They are not meant to kill people in 5 seconds (neither are phoenix shamans, but I have never seen them do what you are claiming).

Cleric's have a -80% healing debuff to healing effectiveness. They also wear plate. They also have arguably the best heals and buffs in the game. They also out DPS other healers, ESPECIALLY rakuur/turgin shamans - where cleric's regular hits hit much harder than their CRITICALS and are comparable to some DPS focused classes.

So why would anyone chose a healing class other than a cleric in the current state of the game?

[BalduranFaerun]

exactly
desciples should have been the healer with the max meele dps
then close behind them rak/tur shamans and then with a huge gap talking about atleast 200% avg dmg dif clerics

and no buffing the other classes to the same op status isnt good mobs are curently much to easy anyway killing 4 dots solo is just silly
I´m all for swinging the nerf bat and swing it hard and not only clerics other classes need it too

there is just no room for improvement left (for example for future addons) what should they be about killing 100dot lvl 100mobs solo with your lvl 50?

[warakus]

I have learned not to take Venge seriously. He also doesnt have any proof to dispell the idea that a cleric can out dps a warrior.

Also it isnt just about clerics being tanks... allthough capping mit and evasion I dont see why they cant tank. With the current content monks can tank, not as well but they can tank RI which is about as hard as it gets atm.

Also there is PVP... why should a cleric do more damage or even close to the same dmg as a tank in PVP?

Reality is I have an alt healer... Tanks nowadays are rare.... very rare and I have had clerics tank more often lately then a tank class and even see them hold aggro better ( level 30 ish).

Sorry .. with the cleric boost and the easy caps....Id say I would consider a cleric for a tank.. hell we used em as offtanks before the patch... what makes you think they cant tank now? Hell they are the best offtanks... no heals required!

[Seven_PRX]

Well, Monks are gimped, that's true.

But the other DPS classes do more DPS than a Cleric.

Mind: i say DPS classes, Defensive Tanks aren't meant as DPS classes obviously, hence the name Defensive. War/Pal/DK aren't suppoed to deal great amounts of damage - Rangers/Rogues/Monks/Bards are.

[Gecon]

Cleric's have a -80% healing debuff to healing effectiveness. They also wear plate. They also have arguably the best heals and buffs in the game. They also out DPS other healers, ESPECIALLY rakuur/turgin shamans - where cleric's regular hits hit much harder than their CRITICALS and are comparable to some DPS focused classes. 1. Correct, we got a new nifty debuff for -80% healing with the new patch. And if you want to Clerics to be tanking healers, you have no reason to complain about it at all. If someone has low damage output, a healing power debuff is an ability that fits perfectly.
2. Yes, we wear plate. It has been said often, but I will repeat it for your: that Clerics wear plate does NOT mean that they get any close to the defense of a real tank. In fact, offensive melee warriors are at least as hardy as Clerics. The big advantage of Clerics is actually that they can use SHIELDS, but you dont even bother mention that.
3. No, we are not the best healers in the game. Clerics and Shamans are a lot easier to manage than Disciple and Bloodmage, but all four healer classes can take the job of the main healer about equally well unless you gimp them in their equipment or skilling.
4. No, we are absolutely not the best buffer in the game. Any mage you tell that will roll on the ground laughing loudly and .. you get the idea. We are second best, and very close to the first, warrior buffers after Bear Shaman, thats it. We get no nice utility buff like the Shamans Speed or the Bloodmages Levitate / Immunity to Poison Symbiotes, EVER, either.
5. Rakuur Shaman could kill two mobs when I could kill one, before the patch. I doubt I'm THAT much ahead of them, now, though I would have to have another duo party with one to really check. In any case Shamans need a review about their damage and their many bugs, anyway.




desciples should have been the healer with the max meele dps
then close behind them rak/tur shamans and then with a huge gap talking about atleast 200% avg dmg dif clerics 1. What kind of maths is that ? If I do 200% less damage than someone else, I heal the mob for the same damage that the other guy hurts it.

2. Would you care to explain why Clerics are supposed to deal less damage than Bear Shaman ? What advantage exactly do we get over Bear Shaman that would justify that ?



I have learned not to take Venge seriously. He also doesnt have any proof to dispell the idea that a cleric can out dps a warrior. He has reviewed your claims extensively and couldnt verify them. Its not his task to assure you. Even less he's supposed to hang on your lips and believe everything that comes out.



Well, Monks are gimped, that's true.

But the other DPS classes do more DPS than a Cleric. Uh, that is AFAIK VERY outdated information. I have been assured in the offensive melee subforum here that Monks deal good damage now, compareable to Ranger, but of course they lack on the utility side in comparison.




Mind: i say DPS classes, Defensive Tanks aren't meant as DPS classes obviously, hence the name Defensive. War/Pal/DK aren't suppoed to deal great amounts of damage - Rangers/Rogues/Monks/Bards are. Actually, my new lowlevel Warrior deals impressive amounts of damage.

I dont even buy it that Cleric stands a chance to outdps any tank class. Its just the opposite of what I see ingame. And I am not even a pure healbot Cleric; I wear mostly armor from quests and drops, therefore mostly tank armor, and both Str and Dex are quite high.

[Seven_PRX]

@Gecon:

I said Defensive Fighters are not SUPPOSED to do much damage. In reality they can be doing a whole lot of course :-) But the idea of a Defensive Fighter is not doing a lot of damage, but is taking a lot of damage.

[Cobalty2004]

@Gecon:

I said Defensive Fighters are not SUPPOSED to do much damage. In reality they can be doing a whole lot of course :-) But the idea of a Defensive Fighter is not doing a lot of damage, but is taking a lot of damage.

Hey and the idea for a cleric is to do large amounts of healing if you want to play by that logic.

And your War stance and the DPS you get from that can be argued thats what O-stance for tanks is, so where is the logic in that?

You forget tanks CANNOT DO DAMAGE AND HOLD AGGRO TANK AT THE SAME TIME.

CLERICS CAN IF THEY STANCE DANCE, WHICH WAS PROBABLY NOT INTENDED IN THE DESIGN/

[BigPapaBruno]

I see care bears...

They are everywhere...

And they post on this forum

[warakus]

1. Correct, we got a new nifty debuff for -80% healing with the new patch. And if you want to Clerics to be tanking healers, you have no reason to complain about it at all. If someone has low damage output, a healing power debuff is an ability that fits perfectly.

!!Of course you think it does.. I would have given this to Necros or DKs... but obviously these debuffs go to Pallies and Clerics. You will spew anything to defend your class.!!

2. Yes, we wear plate. It has been said often, but I will repeat it for your: that Clerics wear plate does NOT mean that they get any close to the defense of a real tank. In fact, offensive melee warriors are at least as hardy as Clerics. The big advantage of Clerics is actually that they can use SHIELDS, but you dont even bother mention that.

!!Whats a 50 cleric in crafted gear cap mit and block at? Best gear level 50? DO they cap lower then 65% on mitigation? Be interesting to know that.... I mean if they can hit the same caps... doesnt that put them on par with a tank? I imagine if a cleric used all tank gear he would be on par with tanks and probably DPS as good or better and still have heals... not as good mind you but still far beyond that of other tank classes.!!

3. No, we are not the best healers in the game. Clerics and Shamans are a lot easier to manage than Disciple and Bloodmage, but all four healer classes can take the job of the main healer about equally well unless you gimp them in their equipment or skilling.

!!I agree here all healing classes seem to heal about the same.. BMGs really good because they have low aggro heals for tanking more then one mob. !!

4. No, we are absolutely not the best buffer in the game. Any mage you tell that will roll on the ground laughing loudly and .. you get the idea. We are second best, and very close to the first, warrior buffers after Bear Shaman, thats it. We get no nice utility buff like the Shamans Speed or the Bloodmages Levitate / Immunity to Poison Symbiotes, EVER, either.

!!Ok buffs. You can buff everything but energy regen.... If asked on any toon what buffs I would want it would be cleric every time. Thats just me though. I could care less about haste in this game... the dex is sweet from Rak shm but I prefer buffs that up my top end damage over haste. !!


5. Rakuur Shaman could kill two mobs when I could kill one, before the patch. I doubt I'm THAT much ahead of them, now, though I would have to have another duo party with one to really check. In any case Shamans need a review about their damage and their many bugs, anyway.

!!This isnt a comparison between healers.. all though I dont think other healing classes tank as well but the can utlity and dps on the side... but so can clerics.!!



1. What kind of maths is that ? If I do 200% less damage than someone else, I heal the mob for the same damage that the other guy hurts it.

2. Would you care to explain why Clerics are supposed to deal less damage than Bear Shaman ? What advantage exactly do we get over Bear Shaman that would justify that ?

!!Plate armor.!!



He has reviewed your claims extensively and couldnt verify them. Its not his task to assure you. Even less he's supposed to hang on your lips and believe everything that comes out.

!!No he hasnt. Your right he should not. I just think this was thrown out with out any testing really taking place. I mean if hes the war class lead shouldnt he be concerend if clerics can reach the same mit/block cap or hold better aggro? Isnt that sort of infringing on a role the 3 tanks are allready fussing over? Thats just me... Like the mit cap being hit allready.. I brougth it up and got some vague lame answer. Ahh well.!!



Uh, that is AFAIK VERY outdated information. I have been assured in the offensive melee subforum here that Monks deal good damage now, compareable to Ranger, but of course they lack on the utility side in comparison.



Actually, my new lowlevel Warrior deals impressive amounts of damage.

!!and my low level cleric can PK 3 equal level warriors at once.../shrug!!

I dont even buy it that Cleric stands a chance to outdps any tank class. Its just the opposite of what I see ingame. And I am not even a pure healbot Cleric; I wear mostly armor from quests and drops, therefore mostly tank armor, and both Str and Dex are quite high.

Clerics can now do many things.... DPS/Heal/tank/Untility/debuff and most classes cannot fit into all those catigories. They arent on the low end in any of these catorgories by any means.... it just seems that things are going a bit too far. Imagine Paladins getting heals that differed from clerics by the amount of difference between the mitigation maxed out of a pally and a cleric... is there a difference? seem ok now? I mean sure they arent clerics.. but they heal good enough to do any content... sort of like a clerics tanking ability now.
Now since this is the PVP forum.... and clerics take good dmg ..... do good dmg and are juggernaughts in pvp.... what do tanks and melee dps classes do against them? Run? DPS like that in PVP big hard hits is what counts... now a healing block debuff on top of that? Id say your just on the defensive here.... spew away man... we know what its really like int he PVP game and this makes clerics too powerfull. You defending it doesnt change anything... and yes there are other overpowered abilities classes.... this didnt help.. it made it worse.

[warakus]

I see care bears...

They are everywhere...

And they post on this forum
I would Pk you Bruno..... but I see your a cleric and youll own the crap out of my 50 DK thats if you know how to pvp... oh wait I will kill you! No danger there!

[BigPapaBruno]

I would Pk you Bruno..... but I see your a cleric and youll own the crap out of my 50 DK thats if you know how to pvp... oh wait I will kill you! No danger there!

I will send you a tell later tonight in game sweet tits ;)

Until then.. I have to work.

[warakus]

Ok Ill be on my cleric. Name is Tankeatereplacer

[Jebus]

-80% healing debuff should NOT work in PVP
Cleric's should have LESS DPS than other HEALERS because of the fact they GET PLATE. But no, lets give them better DPS as well. Leave them as one of the best healers, buffers and utility - yeah, thats real balanced!

[Aristotle]

The devs did a horrible job of class balance.

No amount of cleric defending their turf will change the fact that they are overpowered by a long way.

They should be thrown in the defensive tank class subset now and balanced accordingly. Paladins have buffs and minor heals (on a timer) so naturally have less dps than the other two tanks. Clerics have even better buffs than a paladin and unlimited heals , so guess where the dps for a cleric should go........way down for balance.

If SOE is in charge then they will want subscriptions and they cannot get that if there is only 5 playable classes in game at present(druid, necro, sorc , hyatet shaman and cleric), because people dont only want to play those classes, some actually want to play melee classes.

[WarZephyr]

you might want to add rangers to that list of playable chars, they are pretty damn good now, in fact just got 3 shotted by one before i could even run away.

[Seven_PRX]

You forget tanks CANNOT DO DAMAGE AND HOLD AGGRO TANK AT THE SAME TIME.

??? Uh? Tanks do fine damage wise and hold aggro... Not sure which game you are playing, but it can't be VG.

Cleric's should have LESS DPS than other HEALERS because of the fact they GET PLATE. But no, lets give them better DPS as well. Leave them as one of the best healers, buffers and utility - yeah, thats real balanced!

Ask any Cleric: even though we wear plate, we have shitty Mitigation. My level 35 DK, in pretty crappy armor, has almost twice the Mitigation of my lvl 50 Cleric in a lot better armor...

Of course tanks are supposed to have good mitigation, but the truth is, is that the mitigation of Clerics suck. 1-3 dots it's not a problem, but 4*+ and we take hits for a lot of damage.

[Ybini]

This must be a higher level feature then, because at lvl 29 it takes me _forever_ to kill anything higher level than me (3-dots).. Then, the stupid mob will run away and heal up while I chase it around like an idiot, until it heals enough to stay still and I go at it again and if I'm lucky get a chain on it that dps's enough to drop it.

Maybe the cleric got a bunch of lucky chains on you.

[BalduranFaerun]

the problem is a dps specced war cleric (well atleast with I have experiance with this specc)
with cap str and str gear and good amount of dex they deal the same dmg as offensive fighters (400%chains without recast timer)
but still have much more other stuff which the offensive fighters have given up (except ranger for some unknown reason) in order to be damage dealers
ie: heals, good buffs, castable root

now lots of offensive fighters especially monks ask themself why did I roll an offensive tank if I could have rolled a cleric with str,dex spec and deal nearly equal damage?

my monk for example only has one chain which is atm better then a 400% chain which is thousend fists and its on a 1 minute timer

I group regularly with a cleric and he deals more damage then I do except when I land thousend fists(although he uses only a one handed weapon which is 2 dps better then one of my two claws...)

now that simply isnt correct so either monks damage chains should be increased to equal 800% dmg chains or clerics meele dmg needs to be nerfed...

p.s.: and no this isnt only a pvp issue for those nay sayers telling everyone that the classes will not be balanced around pvp its a pve issue too

[Way]

No healer ingame should be able to out-dps ANY of the offensive fighters ! period !

the mere fact that clerics can 1) absorb 3 initial hits , 2) get invulnerability , 3) root that hardly breaks , 4) no reuse timers on the high dps chains ? wtf ? 5) AWESOME heals 6 ) excellent buffs amongst other things should make them currently the most broken class ingame.

Clerics out-dps me as a ranger in pvp ... 1 on 1 .. working as intended im sure.

If you wanna level up fast and kill ANY encounter ingame - just have 6 clerics - the end.

Alas - by the time this gets fixed, all those people who farm bindstones and invuln+hearth when they're in trouble will have 50k + infamy. Not that infamy means anything.

[WarZephyr]

At least you rangers are doing better than Bards or monks. You can take down a Bard or Monk in 2-4 hits.

I agree with what your saying, but if i can get a cleric down to about 3/4 of his health im pretty sure u have a better chance then me.

Right now class balance is horrible. My bard has no perks and the worst damage in game and it sucks.

I see a cleric and i run. i see a sorcerer and i run, i see druid and i run, i see a ranger and i run, i see anything and i run.

that is shit pvp.

once this game gets somewhat balanced and the merge happens, i will most likely not quit this game for years.

[Jebus]

??? Uh? Tanks do fine damage wise and hold aggro... Not sure which game you are playing, but it can't be VG.

Ask any Cleric: even though we wear plate, we have shitty Mitigation. My level 35 DK, in pretty crappy armor, has almost twice the Mitigation of my lvl 50 Cleric in a lot better armor...

Of course tanks are supposed to have good mitigation, but the truth is, is that the mitigation of Clerics suck. 1-3 dots it's not a problem, but 4*+ and we take hits for a lot of damage.

But you still have MUCH better mitigation than any other healing class, with BM's being a close second. Couple that with the best DPS of any healer and arguably the best healer to boot - you have one overpowered class.

That's not even mentioning the fact clerics get -
War shields, lvl 3 version absorbing 5 hits!!
Invulnerability
Stuns
-80% healing effectiveness debuff (i win button vs other healers)
And access to stun immunity

Whoever thinks cleric's are NOT overpowered is plain and simply defending their OP class.

[Seven_PRX]

1) absorb 3 initial hits , 2) get invulnerability , 3) root that hardly breaks , 4) no reuse timers on the high dps chains ? wtf ? 5) AWESOME heals 6 ) excellent buffs amongst other things should make them currently the most broken class ingame.


1) It's 2 actually with the default trained 1, 4 with the highest learned one. but that takes 400+energy to cast. But it's a nice spell, in PvP mainly, in PvE it's not a big deal.

2) Invul, well, it sounds nice, but it's 10 seconds only, and is on a 10 minute recast timer. I almost never use it, and when I do, it's usually not enough to save me, as you can't do anything when you use it (ie cant run, heal, fight).

3) Huh? Yes, we have a root. And it's just like any other root. It even last quite short.

4) Well, on mty DK, my chains also don't have a re-use timer, so I don't see the problem.

5) Yes, we have good heals, but I have seen how a good specced BM can heal, and his healing is better.

6) Our Buffs are ok, but so are the buffs of many other classes.

There is nothing broken about the Cleric. You have to remember, IF you fully spec DEX + STR, your healing will be very limited due to low VIT + WIS. So you certainly won't be a good group healer. Also, please remember we have a low mitigation, meaning we can't tank (take hits).

I do think it's strange that our melee chain is 3 long (4 if you count the opener). They could take away the last ability in the chain, making our chain as long as the 'normal' 'long' melee chains that DKs have.

[BalduranFaerun]

...lots of other stuff...

There is nothing broken about the Cleric. You have to remember, IF you fully spec DEX + STR, your healing will be very limited due to low VIT + WIS. So you certainly won't be a good group healer. Also, please remember we have a low mitigation, meaning we can't tank (take hits).



the point is you still have healing and all the other nice toys for pvp while offensive fighters esp monks have given up nearly every single bit of utilitie/abilties to deal more meele dmg then other classes - but now they DO NOT
so why roll a monk (other then rp reasons)? you can roll a str/dex cleric
and have the same offensive capabilities and heals/buffs a root a stun on top of it?

THIS IS THE PROBLEM offensive fighters now have

p.s.: you still have higher mitgation then any offensive tank due to heavy armor ;)
p.p.s.: every person who is a bit aware of class balance should be able to realize the major problem which this implies or not?

[Seven_PRX]

THIS IS THE PROBLEM offensive fighters now have

That says it all: it is not a problem with Clerics, but with certain other classes lacking things. So people shouldnt yell "Nerf Clerics", but should be asking for some additions to their class.



p.s.: you still have higher mitgation then any offensive tank due to heavy armor ;)

Not really, I duo a lot with a Ranger, and he can take hits as well as I do. And actually a BM, in Cloth, in their defensive stance, has a higher Mitigation than a Cleric in Plate. Go Figure :-))) Our Mitigation USED to be nice, but in one of the earlier patches, they lowered it a lot.


p.p.s.: every person who is a bit aware of class balance should be able to realize the major problem which this implies or not?

Clerics aren't overpowered or the most powerful class out there. Look @ Druids, Sorcerors, Shamans (Phoenix), Necro's... Now THOSE are classes who can literally wipe out groups, 1-2 shot people, etc. You will never ever see a Cleric do such things :-) So, if they are looking @ class balancing, they should FIRST look @ Pet Damage and Spell Damage, and then they can come look @ a WAR Cleric...

[BalduranFaerun]

well of course there is always the option of increasing monks and bards dmg output

although these two classes are more in line with the actual power classes should have gotten in the "vision" of the game... well I guess that was long ago given up :D
e.g. can barely kill 3 dots even 4 levels below etc ;)

so in light of the system sigil wanted to make
2 dots solo
3dots small group
4dots small group/group
...
all classes except monks, bards and rogues are overpowered atm and need to be nerfed
IF this system is no longer desired by soe then these offensive fighters need a huge boost (200% dmg increase to be able to kill 3 dots same level and stand a 50/50 chance against 4dots)

I am aware of the problem with caster althoug this could be easily fixed by giving higher resists/hp for con which would also make this stat more desireable
the thing why lots of offensive fighters cry out loud atm is that clerics are stealing now in our turf which is high meele dmg :-P

[Kaltor]

That's not even mentioning the fact clerics get -
War shields, lvl 3 version absorbing 5 hits!!
Invulnerability
Stuns
-80% healing effectiveness debuff (i win button vs other healers)
And access to stun immunity


ward sheild III is 4 hits not 5

stun immunity is only with preservation affinity which I have not heard anyone complaining about their DPS being to high (just war and death)

[Ybini]

That says it all: it is not a problem with Clerics, but with certain other classes lacking things. So people shouldnt yell "Nerf Clerics", but should be asking for some additions to their class.

Yeah I'd agree here. Just bump up the mitigation on the tanks they're sposed to be tough anyway, the complaint is only against a subclass of clerics anyway.

[Gecon]

stun immunity is only with preservation affinity which I have not heard anyone complaining about their DPS being to high (just war and death) Errm no, has nothing to do with War or Death. People complain that our dps is too high.

And besides, Preservation Stance does NOT protect from stun, in PvP. Its bugged.

As are all the other Affinities ...

[Jebus]

ward sheild III is 4 hits not 5

stun immunity is only with preservation affinity which I have not heard anyone complaining about their DPS being to high (just war and death)

Oh, in that case, BUFF clerics!

Seriously, whoever thinks that the healer with easily the best defense should also have arguably the best healing ability AND offense was smoking something good.

Then they add in all these other abilities that rock, especially in PVP.

What a joke.

[Gecon]

Seriously, whoever thinks that the healer with easily the best defense should also have arguably the best healing ability AND offense was smoking something good. 1. Nobody EVER said that.

2. What does this "arguably the best healing ability" mean, exactly, anyway ? At best one could say Clerics are primus inter pares. Or more precisely, Clerics are best at the most usual scenario - medium damage to the main tank, where the Cleric has only to apply his HoT and keep going. Group Sorcerer or Necromancer under Attack ? - Shaman is much better to rescue the guy, because they have a quickheal that heals double as much. MASSIVE damage on the main tank ? Nobody beats the Disciple, thats what they are good at, massively healing a single person ad infinum. Raids, Healer with DPS, shorter periods of massive damage on the tank, healing in combination with damage ? Thats all the domain of Bloodmages with their damage distribution, damage to health spells, and the strongest HoT of all healer classes (which however needs both preparation and has a very long recast).

[Jebus]

1. Nobody EVER said that.

2. What does this "arguably the best healing ability" mean, exactly, anyway ? At best one could say Clerics are primus inter pares. Or more precisely, Clerics are best at the most usual scenario - medium damage to the main tank, where the Cleric has only to apply his HoT and keep going. Group Sorcerer or Necromancer under Attack ? - Shaman is much better to rescue the guy, because they have a quickheal that heals double as much. MASSIVE damage on the main tank ? Nobody beats the Disciple, thats what they are good at, massively healing a single person ad infinum. Raids, Healer with DPS, shorter periods of massive damage on the tank, healing in combination with damage ? Thats all the domain of Bloodmages with their damage distribution, damage to health spells, and the strongest HoT of all healer classes (which however needs both preparation and has a very long recast).

It means, if I said cleric's were the the BEST healers and had the BEST offense (of healers), people would ignore my point(s) and simply try and argue they aren't the BEST - exactly like you just did.

Shaman's are the least efficient healers and are the worst at sustaining a tank in high level area's. They have no access to any forms of HOT's and their reactive heals scale down totally vs high level mobs. If you think a shaman is a better healer than a cleric, especially in lvl 50 content - you are severely mistaken - infact a DEV has already confirmed this is an area shamans need help on, so let's move on.

Therefore, I will rephrase my post again, just so you don't skip over my point's again.

Cleric's have the best defense of healers, period.
Cleric's are in the top category of DPS output of healers, along with BM's.
Cleric's are in the top category of end game healers, along with BM's (and possibly disciples?).

There is nothing the new breed of cleric lacks - as they excel at everything, lack nothing. I should also add that it has also been relayed to us, by the shaman class lead, that shamans, as well as cleric's are intended to have the LOWEST dps of the healing classes. This means that cleric's DPS output needs to be reduced DRAMATICALLY to be on par with shaman's output - as this is clearly not the case atm.

Even at this point in my post we can clearly see cleric's are overpowered, esp in comparison to other healers. Now throw in all these useful in combat PVE/PVP abilities that other healers lack (stun, immun, ward shield, -80% heal) and you sir, have one severely overpowered class.

Defend your class all you want, but either every other healer (infact, every other class) needs to be buffed dramatically as well as the mob difficulty increased across the board, or cleric's need to be brought back inline with every other mortal class. Which do you think it's going to be?

[david99]

It means, if I said cleric's were the the BEST healers and had the BEST offense (of healers), people would ignore my point(s) and simply try and argue they aren't the BEST - exactly like you just did.

Shaman's are the least efficient healers and are the worst at sustaining a tank in high level area's. They have no access to any forms of HOT's and their reactive heals scale down totally vs high level mobs. If you think a shaman is a better healer than a cleric, especially in lvl 50 content - you are severely mistaken - infact a DEV has already confirmed this is an area shamans need help on, so let's move on.

Therefore, I will rephrase my post again, just so you don't skip over my point's again.

Cleric's have the best defense of healers, period.
Cleric's are in the top category of DPS output of healers, along with BM's.
Cleric's are in the top category of end game healers, along with BM's (and possibly disciples?).

There is nothing the new breed of cleric lacks - as they excel at everything, lack nothing. I should also add that it has also been relayed to us, by the shaman class lead, that shamans, as well as cleric's are intended to have the LOWEST dps of the healing classes. This means that cleric's DPS output needs to be reduced DRAMATICALLY to be on par with shaman's output - as this is clearly not the case atm.

Even at this point in my post we can clearly see cleric's are overpowered, esp in comparison to other healers. Now throw in all these useful in combat PVE/PVP abilities that other healers lack (stun, immun, ward shield, -80% heal) and you sir, have one severely overpowered class.

Defend your class all you want, but either every other healer (infact, every other class) needs to be buffed dramatically as well as the mob difficulty increased across the board, or cleric's need to be brought back inline with every other mortal class. Which do you think it's going to be?

Agreed.

Cleric's wear plate armor, there should be something to out offset this - like less healing or offense - currently it's the COMPLETE opposite
WAR and DEATH cleric's stances need a good looking at - WAY too much DPS, crit, offense for a plate wearing healer.
-80% healing reduction for 30 secs should not work in PVP, or have a MUCH shorter duration.
Cleric's should have some sort of MEANINGFUL restriction on swapping stances - eg much longer duration, not in combat etc..
HOT's should suffer from swapping stances and not heal at 100% effectiveness once cleric's switch to a DPS stance
Invisibility vs undead should not work in PVP in any way shape or form

[BigPapaBruno]

waaaaahhhhh

When you guys are crying that there are no clerics left on the server come refer back to this thread :)

[Rowain deWolf]

waaaaahhhhh

When you guys are crying that there are no clerics left on the server come refer back to this thread :)

1) Clerics have been the most played class from the begin even before they become the demigods of VG so I doubt SoE will nerf them so hard that nobody would play them.

2) Whats the difference between having no Cleric to group with because they are all happy soloing their 4-dot and 5-dot Mobs and having no Cleric because they quit?

[Gecon]

HOT's should suffer from swapping stances and not heal at 100% effectiveness once cleric's switch to a DPS stance Well thats for once a constructive suggestion. Makes sense. But it should affect all HoTs and DoTs of other classes, too, then.


Invisibility vs undead should not work in PVP in any way shape or form THat goes without saying, even if PvP is so bugged, unbalanced and unfair in Vanguard that I honestly dont care.

[warakus]

I think A good solution is to lock the cleric in whatever stance they are in to combat is over.. or put a 5 min timer on it. I think this would make it more fair PVP wise and maybe tone them down a bit pve..

[Kaltor]

I think A good solution is to lock the cleric in whatever stance they are in to combat is over.. or put a 5 min timer on it. I think this would make it more fair PVP wise and maybe tone them down a bit pve..

I think any higher than a 30 second refresh would interfere too much with PvE for raids.
and definetely no on the whole combat thing.

[BigPapaBruno]

1) Clerics have been the most played class from the begin even before they become the demigods of VG so I doubt SoE will nerf them so hard that nobody would play them.

2) Whats the difference between having no Cleric to group with because they are all happy soloing their 4-dot and 5-dot Mobs and having no Cleric because they quit?

I'm pretty sure I'm not happy soloing any mobs. Group exp in the right dungeons beat any solo exp in the game. So you're either are a noob or just talking out of your ass. You find me a solo mob I can kill for 20k exp in less time it will take my group to kill a mob that will give me 20k exp and then I would be soloing.

[BigPapaBruno]

I think A good solution is to lock the cleric in whatever stance they are in to combat is over.. or put a 5 min timer on it. I think this would make it more fair PVP wise and maybe tone them down a bit pve..

It doesn't matter if they lock the stance unless you actually use the death stance. Clerics can still use the death spells in healing stance. You have to be retarded to actually switch stances when you can just stay in healing stance and keep the healing, mitigation, and same spells.

[warakus]

It doesn't matter if they lock the stance unless you actually use the death stance. Clerics can still use the death spells in healing stance. You have to be retarded to actually switch stances when you can just stay in healing stance and keep the healing, mitigation, and same spells.
good point.. make death spells war abilities ect only useable from those stances... no nerfing really just cant have the cake and eat it too.

[Gecon]

I think A good solution is to lock the cleric in whatever stance they are in to combat is over.. or put a 5 min timer on it. I think this would make it more fair PVP wise and maybe tone them down a bit pve.. Do me a favor and never tell me a solution that you consider BAD.

[warakus]

Do me a favor and never tell me a solution that you consider BAD.


Ok Gecon.. heres what well do.. well combine the stances and each melee attack or nuke the cleric does heals them full every time.. also they will be unrootable unmezzable unstunnable unsnarable while in this super stance. And they can fly and make rainbows with their gas!

Dude it doesnt matter what anyone says... how about ignoring me ok? I dont believe your doing anything but defending your seriously OP class... Ive heard you and discussed with you and come to the conclusion that you are not rational or logical and very bias.

[Cobalty2004]

??? Uh? Tanks do fine damage wise and hold aggro... Not sure which game you are playing, but it can't be VG.



Ask any Cleric: even though we wear plate, we have shitty Mitigation. My level 35 DK, in pretty crappy armor, has almost twice the Mitigation of my lvl 50 Cleric in a lot better armor...

Of course tanks are supposed to have good mitigation, but the truth is, is that the mitigation of Clerics suck. 1-3 dots it's not a problem, but 4*+ and we take hits for a lot of damage.

Tanks can do damage and hold aggro, I have no idea who posted that BS. My warrior does enough damage to hold aggro, but when tanking my DPS goes down the shitter. But my damage is high enough to still hold aggro... anyway

I feel that Cleric mitigation should be the same as tanks. But their overall defense should be lowered by clerics should not be given parry. And their block skill with the shield should be far inferior to that of a real tank.

[BigPapaBruno]

A cleric using death spells in pve is way more benefitial and worth keeping it the way it is just to better your groups. Most of the arguements are based on 1v1 situations. People need to see the bigger picture. Without wasting too much of my own time, I'm just going to point out a few positive points.

As fast paced as this game is, you barely have enough time to heal members in your party as it is, especially when it's cloth getting beat on. Messing with the timers will just delay that even more.

A couple benefitial pve spells that people don't even know is on the mob:
1. 20% accuracy reduction
2. Snare
3. 40% critical susceptibility
4. Along with the dot on snare, there is a regular dot that does over 3k at my level, and a melee dot. That's 3 dots for extra damage while still being able to heal.

In almost every single group pvp battle I have been in, I don't have time to cast any death spells. You guys are bitching about 1v1 or 2v2 situations. You have to look at the bigger picture.

My best suggestion would be to get a group or a tissue.

[warakus]

A cleric using death spells in pve is way more benefitial and worth keeping it the way it is just to better your groups. Most of the arguements are based on 1v1 situations. People need to see the bigger picture. Without wasting too much of my own time, I'm just going to point out a few positive points.

As fast paced as this game is, you barely have enough time to heal members in your party as it is, especially when it's cloth getting beat on. Messing with the timers will just delay that even more.

A couple benefitial pve spells that people don't even know is on the mob:
1. 20% accuracy reduction
2. Snare
3. 40% critical susceptibility
4. Along with the dot on snare, there is a regular dot that does over 3k at my level, and a melee dot. That's 3 dots for extra damage while still being able to heal.

In almost every single group pvp battle I have been in, I don't have time to cast any death spells. You guys are bitching about 1v1 or 2v2 situations. You have to look at the bigger picture.

My best suggestion would be to get a group or a tissue.'Then basically you dont need death stance to work in PVP right? So the timer thing would be fine with what your saying.. and we you 1v1 you have a choce.. uber dmg debuffs or healing.... seems fair to me and even you said you dont need it for group PVP. o get a group.. just liek your telling us.. or choose a stance and be stuck with those spells only working in that stance. You guys wants your cake and eat it too.. I cant think of any other class that can pull off 3 roles plus... nor should any. If you had rolled any other class Bruno Im sure wed need bucketss for your tears..... Big ones!

[BigPapaBruno]

'Then basically you dont need death stance to work in PVP right? So the timer thing would be fine with what your saying.. and we you 1v1 you have a choce.. uber dmg debuffs or healing.... seems fair to me and even you said you dont need it for group PVP. o get a group.. just liek your telling us.. or choose a stance and be stuck with those spells only working in that stance. You guys wants your cake and eat it too.. I cant think of any other class that can pull off 3 roles plus... nor should any. If you had rolled any other class Bruno Im sure wed need bucketss for your tears..... Big ones!

I get rolled 1v1 all the time buddy and you don't see me crying/spamming on necro, sorc, ranger or bard forums when they are exploiting their class or just using what Sigil created. I try to use the advantages of classes in a positive way most of the time.

Yes, this game gets frustrating once in a while but sometimes you just have to sit back and realize that it's just a game. You are frustrated to the point that you want to start a fight with me on the forums and assume that I would be crying if another class was overpowered. You need to smoke a joint or something man.

[warakus]

I get rolled 1v1 all the time buddy and you don't see me crying/spamming on necro, sorc, ranger or bard forums when they are exploiting their class or just using what Sigil created. I try to use the advantages of classes in a positive way most of the time.

Yes, this game gets frustrating once in a while but sometimes you just have to sit back and realize that it's just a game. You are frustrated to the point that you want to start a fight with me on the forums and assume that I would be crying if another class was overpowered. You need to smoke a joint or something man.
Well thats a different approach for you. Im not mad just making a point... Your the one bringing up tissues.. because were not manly because we have an issue with clerics and balance. Remember your the one saying people are whiners because they have issue with clerics... Im stil having fun and I have a lowbie cleric I melee sorcs to death 10 levels higher..... weee thats funny... in fact thats my real protesting logging on a 12 cleric and running around with another 12 cleric and kill level 20 plus tunes not clerics :P

[Gecon]

And they can fly and make rainbows with their gas! To be honest, that might actually describes the state of your mind right now, if I look at what you're writing here.

Could you just start at the very beginning and explain why stances should be penetralized at all ? Especially since they are obviously not designed to be switched slowly in Vanguard, no matter to what you are maybe used to from other games. Even more especially not the Death Stance of Death Clerics, which strips the class from the MAIN ABILITY of the class !

We do NOT suddenly become real mages in our Death Stance. Our Anathema/Doom spells do not make enough damage for that, by far, neither do our new DoTs coming from the Affinity, which cancel each others damage out anyway, so its in fact only one DoT at the moment. A cleric, Death Affinity or not, still has to hit the mob in direct melee. Otherwise even 2dots of same level suck your mana pool empty, even in Death Stance. That might be a bit different if you maximize Int and wear Mage Robes, but why would I then play a Cleric at all ? A real sorcerer or necromancer will have a ton of Abilities that such a Cleric would lack. They can kill 5dots and 6dots with them !

And can you please just say "I dont like the Death Affinity, please remove it from the game again", not just construct something that makes sure that no Death Cleric will ever be able to access the abilities of his affinity in any remotely realistic situation ? Thats just stupid and proves you know nothing about the class.

'Then basically you dont need death stance to work in PVP right? So the timer thing would be fine with what your saying.. No its not. Your timer thing would make sure no class would be able to switch stances. EVER. When does one get 5 minutes of fightfree time when adventuring ?

Im not mad just making a point... No you're not.

[warakus]

To be honest, that might actually describes the state of your mind right now, if I look at what you're writing here.

Could you just start at the very beginning and explain why stances should be penetralized :confused: at all ? Especially since they are obviously not designed to be switched slowly in Vanguard, no matter to what you are maybe used to from other games. Even more especially not the Death Stance of Death Clerics, which strips the class from the MAIN ABILITY of the class !

We do NOT suddenly become real mages in our Death Stance. Our Anathema/Doom spells do not make enough damage for that, by far, neither do our new DoTs coming from the Affinity, which cancel each others damage out anyway, so its in fact only one DoT at the moment. A cleric, Death Affinity or not, still has to hit the mob in direct melee. Otherwise even 2dots of same level suck your mana pool empty, even in Death Stance. That might be a bit different if you maximize Int and wear Mage Robes, but why would I then play a Cleric at all ? A real sorcerer or necromancer will have a ton of Abilities that such a Cleric would lack. They can kill 5dots and 6dots with them ! :confused:

And can you please just say "I dont like the Death Affinity, please remove it from the game again", not just construct something that makes sure that no Death Cleric will ever be able to access the abilities of his affinity in any remotely realistic situation ? Thats just stupid and proves you know nothing about the class. :(

No its not. Your timer thing would make sure no class would be able to switch stances. EVER. When does one get 5 minutes of fightfree time when adventuring ?

No you're not. :confused: :cry: :(

[Echonaz]

I get rolled 1v1 all the time buddy and you don't see me crying/spamming on necro, sorc, ranger or bard forums when they are exploiting their class or just using what Sigil created. I try to use the advantages of classes in a positive way most of the time.

Yes, this game gets frustrating once in a while but sometimes you just have to sit back and realize that it's just a game. You are frustrated to the point that you want to start a fight with me on the forums and assume that I would be crying if another class was overpowered. You need to smoke a joint or something man.

You get rolled by bards on your cleric?

umm...ok..

[BigPapaBruno]

You get rolled by bards on your cleric?

umm...ok..

Actually, it only happened one time recently but that was after he ran away 452 times after I got him low. He finally caught me off guard and killed me. He still killed me though and it's more than a lot of people can say 1v1. I do not underestimate them especially since I still see them invising in pvp.

[Echonaz]

Actually, it only happened one time recently but that was after he ran away 452 times after I got him low. He finally caught me off guard and killed me. He still killed me though and it's more than a lot of people can say 1v1. I do not underestimate them especially since I still see them invising in pvp.

I guess I am missing something then. I mean, any time he is not attcking you for more than 10 seconds, you can heal yourself to full.

Bards have pathetic defense, no fast healing and no burst damage.

Every cleric I run into is somehow doing 1000s of points of damage in just a few seconds (dont play the class, so no clue what it is). I go from 3200hp to Zero before I can move.

So I'm not sure how you are letting a 1v1 situation vs a bard get away from you.

[BigPapaBruno]

I guess I am missing something then. I mean, any time he is not attcking you for more than 10 seconds, you can heal yourself to full.

Bards have pathetic defense, no fast healing and no burst damage.

Every cleric I run into is somehow doing 1000s of points of damage in just a few seconds (dont play the class, so no clue what it is). I go from 3200hp to Zero before I can move.

So I'm not sure how you are letting a 1v1 situation vs a bard get away from you.

Maybe because you are level 29?

[Echonaz]

Maybe because you are level 29?

Not sure why that matters.

Unless of course you are assuming that the clerics I have run into are all much higher level than me.

Not the case.

[BigPapaBruno]

Not sure why that matters.

Unless of course you are assuming that the clerics I have run into are all much higher level than me.

Not the case.

Somebody else can explain it to you. I'm worn from this subject to be honest.

[durango]

The devs did a horrible job of class balance.

No amount of cleric defending their turf will change the fact that they are overpowered by a long way.

They should be thrown in the defensive tank class subset now and balanced accordingly. Paladins have buffs and minor heals (on a timer) so naturally have less dps than the other two tanks. Clerics have even better buffs than a paladin and unlimited heals , so guess where the dps for a cleric should go........way down for balance.

If SOE is in charge then they will want subscriptions and they cannot get that if there is only 5 playable classes in game at present(druid, necro, sorc , hyatet shaman and cleric), because people dont only want to play those classes, some actually want to play melee classes.

Oh give me a break!!. Highest DPS person I've ever grouped with is an offensive melee class regularly breaking 50k and getting epic/leg hits in the 120-150k range.

[durango]

At least you rangers are doing better than Bards or monks. You can take down a Bard or Monk in 2-4 hits.

How do you noob bard ever allow him to get close? Don't you know you have root him and do over 1.2k per tick just with a song? Add a couple bow shots and he's dead.


Right now class balance is horrible. My bard has no perks and the worst damage in game and it sucks.

Um, learn to play? Bards have TONS of perks, fairly high DPS, 3rd highest really. If you don't have good DPS then maybe you should get decent gear.

[ursin]

I'm a Warrior who groups with a cleric quite often (being married does that) and i have been actively following her thought processes re: which affinity she will take. right now, with her with no affinity chosen i don't see a big disparity. with the abilities she will have in her affinity i don't see a big disparity if those abilities are only usable in the stance that gives her the "healer penalty" for the perks of her stance.

but what do i know, i'm just a meatshield in training.

Brekkin Tings (Warrior) / Ansalon Lightweaver (Paladin / Envoy / Carpenter) Shidreth Server

heh just noticed PvP forum... totally ignore me....

[durango]

well of course there is always the option of increasing monks and bards dmg output

Bards already are the 3rd highest damage class in the game when used properly. It could be argued that they are THE HIGHEST damage class in the game!

although these two classes are more in line with the actual power classes should have gotten in the "vision" of the game... well I guess that was long ago given up :D
e.g. can barely kill 3 dots even 4 levels below etc ;)

so in light of the system sigil wanted to make
2 dots solo
3dots small group
4dots small group/group
...

This has NEVER been true so stop spouting it.


all classes except monks, bards and rogues are overpowered atm and need to be nerfed

Rogues do respectable damage given their other utilities. Only classes I know of atm that appear to need buffing are monks/disc.


IF this system is no longer desired by soe then these offensive fighters need a huge boost (200% dmg increase to be able to kill 3 dots same level and stand a 50/50 chance against 4dots)

Only classes that need a significant boost are monk/disc. Everyone else is fairly balanced. They may not be able to solo as well, but then again they have abilities that more than make up for it.

I am aware of the problem with caster althoug this could be easily fixed by giving higher resists/hp for con which would also make this stat more desireable
the thing why lots of offensive fighters cry out loud atm is that clerics are stealing now in our turf which is high meele dmg :-P

If a cleric, even a war cleric is outdamaging you as anything but a monk, you need to seriously think about not playing anymore cause you just aren't that good.

[durango]

It means, if I said cleric's were the the BEST healers and had the BEST offense (of healers), people would ignore my point(s) and simply try and argue they aren't the BEST - exactly like you just did.

Cleric are at best the 3rd best healers in the game. Arguably they are the 4th best healers in the game. You should get out more.

Shaman's are the least efficient healers and are the worst at sustaining a tank in high level area's.

you should get to know some better shamen!


Cleric's have the best defense of healers, period.

period, like in you are certain? Really? Sure? I mean seriously? Yes, oh goody cause you're wrong.


Cleric's are in the top category of DPS output of healers, along with BM's.

if by top you mean third.


Cleric's are in the top category of end game healers, along with BM's (and possibly disciples?).

If by top you mean 3rd or arguably 4th. Yeah sure.

There is nothing the new breed of cleric lacks - as they excel at everything, lack nothing.

man when you are wrong, you really are wrong. They excel at NOTHING. NOTHING. though they do lack very little. they are a very balanced class with ok healing, some defense, now ok damage (hey look mom, it doesn't take 2 days to kill 2 dots!!!), and now some utility.

I should also add that it has also been relayed to us, by the shaman class lead, that shamans, as well as cleric's are intended to have the LOWEST dps of the healing classes. This means that cleric's DPS output needs to be reduced DRAMATICALLY to be on par with shaman's output - as this is clearly not the case atm.

by the shamen class lead? Really. Well Mr Trolly Post Class Lead has informed me that your post are supposed to be the most informed posts EVA. But apparently he's wrong.

[durango]

Cleric's wear plate armor, there should be something to out offset this - like less healing or offense - currently it's the COMPLETE opposite

OMG YES PLATE YES PLATE, hey what are you doing with that butter knife, no no no, don't get that anywhere close to me, AHHHHHHHH.

Maybe if in fact the cleric actually did wear plate. See the reality is we wear this metallic colored cardboard. Its lighter, and really a lot cheaper.

WAR and DEATH cleric's stances need a good looking at - WAY too much DPS, crit, offense for a plate wearing healer.

There is nothing healer about a cleric in war or death stance. a proper complaint is that the cool down for stance change should be closer to 60 seconds.


-80% healing reduction for 30 secs should not work in PVP, or have a MUCH shorter duration.

you mean it shouldn't work? Great, we'll get right on that. Do you also want us to break the other 5 ways in which to reduced healing effectiveness? Even the AOE ones?


HOT's should suffer from swapping stances and not heal at 100% effectiveness once cleric's switch to a DPS stance

Its called a bug. Really some people grasp at straws.

Invisibility vs undead should not work in PVP in any way shape or form

OMG, it barely works as is. Whats next, you going to complain about bard perma invis? I mean seriously dude. Oh no, ITU! Its the biggest issue out there. We'll just totally ignore complaining about the only invis issue that matters in PvP and that was totally unaffected by the latest no combat invis changes and applies to whole parties.

[durango]

I think any higher than a 30 second refresh would interfere too much with PvE for raids.
and definetely no on the whole combat thing.

Personally as a cleric, I would be fine with it have a 60s activation time. Its not something that you should be dancing. So just make it take 60s to change stances without the capability to do anything else while it ticks.

[durango]

You get rolled by bards on your cleric?

umm...ok..

A lot of bard don't know jack about their class and their songs. A decent bard is a living terror. 1300 PvP Damage a tick song + -healing + +energy + snare + bow + stun + timing = ouch.

The fact that many bards are stupid doesn't change the fact that when played well they can totally own. I've heard of some bards getting their damage song over 2K per tick.

[BigPapaBruno]

I thought there were no educated people left on these forums.. glad you took the time to straighten that out dur. My head was going to explode from the stupidity that was piling up.

[Jebus]

man when you are wrong, you really are wrong. They excel at NOTHING. NOTHING. though they do lack very little. they are a very balanced class with ok healing, some defense, now ok damage (hey look mom, it doesn't take 2 days to kill 2 dots!!!), and now some utility.


Haha, yeah, defend your overpowered class much?

You may want to tone down the lies though, because even though I 'think' you were trying to be serious, I was laughing at pretty much everything you just wrote.

I personally believe if they increased the duration of stance switching AND looked at reduced or removing the ability to access affinity specific abilities in 'healing stance' then cleric's might be CLOSE to being balanced.

Thanks for the comedy run though, I approve!

[warakus]

Cleric are at best the 3rd best healers in the game. Arguably they are the 4th best healers in the game. You should get out more.
This is so not true.. I play a 50 tank... and clerics heal just as good as shamans or bmg and lower aggro then shms .. bmgs being the top for low aggro healing. make up some more stuff eh?e


you should get to know some better shamen!





period, like in you are certain? Really? Sure? I mean seriously? Yes, oh goody cause you're wrong.Well I will have to try having some other healer offtank those RI mobs... oh wait I dont wana die...At least your consistent





if by top you mean third. Yay more BS!




If by top you mean 3rd or arguably 4th. Yeah sure.Well since no one plays disciples thats hard to call I heard they all re rolled clerics because they suck so bad...



man when you are wrong, you really are wrong. They excel at NOTHING. NOTHING. though they do lack very little. they are a very balanced class with ok healing, some defense, now ok damage (hey look mom, it doesn't take 2 days to kill 2 dots!!!), and now some utility.Learn to play your cleric.. I mean really your telling him how it is and either you dont know your class or you got crap gear... stay with me

If a cleric, even a war cleric is outdamaging you as anything but a monk, you need to seriously think about not playing anymore cause you just aren't that good.Get ot know some better monks




by the shamen class lead? Really. Well Mr Trolly Post Class Lead has informed me that your post are supposed to be the most informed posts EVA. But apparently he's wrong.You got 1 cool point for that! pfffft

Only classes that need a significant boost are monk/disc. Everyone else is fairly balanced. They may not be able to solo as well, but then again they have abilities that more than make up for it.I agree with disc... in fact this stuff should have went to disc not clerics.. clerics were fine

OMG YES PLATE YES PLATE, hey what are you doing with that butter knife, no no no, don't get that anywhere close to me, AHHHHHHHH.

Maybe if in fact the cleric actually did wear plate. See the reality is we wear this metallic colored cardboard. Its lighter, and really a lot cheaper.
I guess you havent seen crafted gear then eh? Ya thats cardboard allright.. oh.. it has the same AC no matter who wears it.. damn caught again

There is nothing healer about a cleric in war or death stance. a proper complaint is that the cool down for stance change should be closer to 60 secondsFinally some light!

you mean it shouldn't work? Great, we'll get right on that. Do you also want us to break the other 5 ways in which to reduced healing effectiveness? Even the AOE ones?Giving this to any healing class is NUTS! but since its you thats ok.. maybe 40% like shamans but 80!!! yea this is gonna make pvp more balanced...

Hmmmmmm

[Gecon]

There is nothing healer about a cleric in war or death stance. a proper complaint is that the cool down for stance change should be closer to 60 seconds. I disagree. If you give them a cooldown of 60 sec, you can as well remove the suicide button.. errm Death Stance. Its worthless. Be our skills in other fields as they may be, but healing is definitely the core skill of the Cleric. Without Healing, Clerics are crap.




Its called a bug. Really some people grasp at straws. I see no reason why the HoT not changing its power when you switch stances is a bug.

What IS a bug is that the HoT, if you refresh it during War or Death Stance, is still at full power, unless it had already run out before.

However, this is not an exclusive bug of the Cleric... this is a bug of a lot of DoTs out there.

[Echonaz]

How do you noob bard ever allow him to get close? Don't you know you have root him and do over 1.2k per tick just with a song? Add a couple bow shots and he's dead.



Um, learn to play? Bards have TONS of perks, fairly high DPS, 3rd highest really. If you don't have good DPS then maybe you should get decent gear.

You are the first person, on ANY board, ANYWHERE to even suggest these things about bards.

3rd highest DPS?

1.2k/tic DoT?

[warakus]

Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Aphelion Tharridon High Elf Paladin 50 52,228

Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Anonymous Tharridon Varanjar Warrior 50 36,904

Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Slim Infineum Thestran Human Bard 50 5,063


Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Reccax Varking Dark Elf Disciple 50 24,718

Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Focus Shidreth Orc Monk 50 49,256

Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Sgor Tharridon Varanjar Ranger 50 33,529


Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Mere Hilsbury Varanjar Rogue 50 28,228

Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Mokkafyr Tharridon Varanthari Shaman 50 53,126



Rank Name Server Race Adventure Class Adventure Level Max Melee Hit
1 Dessan Gelenia High Elf Cleric 50 83,289

Treid to space this out.. did not work. Did not add dreadknights because they were counting slay as a melee hit which outright killed the mob at 10% life if it wasnt immune... doing sometimes 1 mil damage. Thats been nerfed since and only does a finisher now.

[durango]

You are the first person, on ANY board, ANYWHERE to even suggest these things about bards.

maybe you just play with noob bards or don't know anybody who has actually explored the class.

3rd highest DPS?

Yes. It could be argued that they are the highest DPS class in the game as well.

1.2k/tic DoT?

or more depending on gear.

[WarZephyr]

3rd highest dps, hahahaha.

i kno ur tryin to feel better about your class u worked on, but face the facts, lets try 3rd worst dps.

[Jebus]

3rd highest dps, hahahaha.

i kno ur tryin to feel better about your class u worked on, but face the facts, lets try 3rd worst dps.

Yeah, he's a comedian :)

[durango]

3rd highest dps, hahahaha.

i kno ur tryin to feel better about your class u worked on, but face the facts, lets try 3rd worst dps.

um nope, bards are close to the highest DPS class in the game. If you can't figure out how to do it, not my problem.

[Jebus]

um nope, bards are close to the highest DPS class in the game. If you can't figure out how to do it, not my problem.

Oh goodie, let me try!

Cleric's are the highest DPS class in the game. If you can't figure out how to do it, not my problem.

[warakus]

um nope, bards are close to the highest DPS class in the game. If you can't figure out how to do it, not my problem.

You have excellent people skills.... You should write a book about it!

[durango]

Oh goodie, let me try!

Cleric's are the highest DPS class in the game. If you can't figure out how to do it, not my problem.

apparently you don't know the game mechanics then. You might want to look into what bards can do and what they can effect.

[warakus]

apparently you don't know the game mechanics then. You might want to look into what bards can do and what they can effect.

You should do the same... since you think Clerics cant do anything hell your probably think you should get more... learn to play your cleric.. then come talk.

[Echonaz]

apparently you don't know the game mechanics then. You might want to look into what bards can do and what they can effect.

And apparently you are the ONLY person on earth to understand these mechanics, because as I said, you are the FIRST to make such statements.

I have an Idea, school us all. Not with another BU**SH** blanket statement (like all of yours have been so far), but with proof of some kind.

[durango]

And apparently you are the ONLY person on earth to understand these mechanics, because as I said, you are the FIRST to make such statements.

I have an Idea, school us all. Not with another BU**SH** blanket statement (like all of yours have been so far), but with proof of some kind.

Why waste my time, so many of you were shocked that a bard can do over 1k with just his songs, its shocking. Bards generally contribute 50% of the damage in any situation and any group they are in, with near infinite versatility.

[Jebus]

Why waste my time, so many of you were shocked that a bard can do over 1k with just his songs, its shocking. Bards generally contribute 50% of the damage in any situation and any group they are in, with near infinite versatility.

1k tick songs (pvp) for an OFFENSIVE FIGHTER = OP?
yet
2400+ damage hits (pvp) for a PLATE WEARING HEALER = OK?

Priceless.

[durango]

1k tick songs (pvp) for an OFFENSIVE FIGHTER = OP?
yet
2400+ damage hits (pvp) for a PLATE WEARING HEALER = OK?

Priceless.

I swear jebus, your brains must of been lost in game when your character got killed.

1k+ per second PASSIVE ability where you don't have to be near the target is very very powerful.

Bards still do more than 2400 damage in range and melee in PVP as well. Shamen can do 4k+ in melee non-crit.

So whats your in game character Jebus, cause it certainly isn't jebus.

[david99]

Shamen can do 4k+ in melee non-crit.


Got a screen shot of that buddy, cause unless it was a epic or even legendary hit you are kidding yourself (PVP).

[Jebus]

I swear jebus, your brains must of been lost in game when your character got killed.

I don't get killed, I'm a cleric.

[warakus]

Nerf is coming YAY! This is for you durango.. see if you can find where they admit clerics are OP and are going to handle it when they get some other things done. Enjoy it while you can bud.. your day is over soon :P

[Echonaz]

Why waste my time, so many of you were shocked that a bard can do over 1k with just his songs, its shocking. Bards generally contribute 50% of the damage in any situation and any group they are in, with near infinite versatility.

I agree with you on the waste of time part, as no such proof exists.

Just shut up already, you sound more full of it every time you post.

[warakus]

I logged in before work on my cleric.
I killed a 21 BMG ans 20 disc with no problem whatsoever... 100% mana when done (think i used 2 hots) they couldnt keep up with my damage.

Also I noticed that clerics damage on crit chains and moves doesnt seem to work from strentgh... they hit WAY harder then my melees do when using these dmg bonus moves... for instance my DK harrow barely hits that hard at 50 using a heroic 1h.... I mean wtf! (oh durango in case you pipe in its the afrit quest longsword... so dont go saying get gear :P)

So far Ive noticed clerics get.
30% dmg stance
20% dmg buff short duration
10% Dmg buff 5 min
20% dmg buff at 50
Double hit buff (which would mean a 100% dmg buff right?)
80%+ double hits... isnt that 180% dmg self buffed? Then on top of the you can get a 200% dmg attack and a crit chain for 400%? Sure it might be short duration.. but who with no healing will survive that?

Apply neg 80% healing to o target....

Hell Id rather have all this stuff then Hated incarnate which is on a 2 hour timer... clerics have theirs on a 10 min timer? What were they smoking OMG!

[durango]

I agree with you on the waste of time part, as no such proof exists.

Just shut up already, you sound more full of it every time you post.

Man, you really really don't know how powerful bards are do you? The are probably the most powerful class in the game atm. Their songs are incredibly effective. But apparently you've never grouped with a bard or at least a decent one.

[durango]

I logged in before work on my cleric.
I killed a 21 BMG ans 20 disc with no problem whatsoever... 100% mana when done (think i used 2 hots) they couldnt keep up with my damage.

Also I noticed that clerics damage on crit chains and moves doesnt seem to work from strentgh... they hit WAY harder then my melees do when using these dmg bonus moves... for instance my DK harrow barely hits that hard at 50 using a heroic 1h.... I mean wtf! (oh durango in case you pipe in its the afrit quest longsword... so dont go saying get gear :P)

Afrit quest longsword is a joke! Seriously, its hilarious you actually did that quest!

[warakus]

Afrit quest longsword is a joke! Seriously, its hilarious you actually did that quest!

Really? and what mr expert tank makes it a joke? its over 60 DPS Im and the clerics weapon is... cough 27 DPS.... funny how you ignore the fact that the cleric has a 27 dps 1h weapon and I have a 63 (i think) DPS weapon and she can out damage me at level 22. Funny out of all that thats what you chose to look at... I have several weapons from Rhaz... I choose the longsword because ultimately it is the best high level quest ive done. Also those weapons are on par with the drops in Afrit (which I have 3 of in my bag) and next your gonna tell me how much the Djuul axe rocks over the greystone one.. I havent bothered to get it.. let me give you a quick class son.

Top end damage is what I care about... greystone and RI axe are separeted by a whopping 20! WOOOO HOOOOO! The long sword compared to other weapons at MOST might be 10 points of dmg lower..... not really worth my time. Getting the tank sword would be worth it if I could stomach more grinding.

Heres another thing.... my gear... is ok.. half and half rare and heroic. I have about the same mitigation in Def as a self buffed cleric in healing stance (warcaller) around 40%. with buffs I can hit around 60... yes passing the cleric who can also get the bear buff ect. 40% vs 60% I know your think 1k hit is 600 and the other is 400...... mitigated. Not a huge difference at this time.. maybe in raid content that 20% will shine but right now a cleric can tank anything out there... to say anything else is too lie.

Now my beef with clerics is there damage.... I say let them have a GREAT defense... and some melee moves... but a frigging combat stance that adds 30% damage on top of everything else and 10 accuracy and 15 BLOCK in the same stance is frigging over the top man..... you dont want to admit that.

also later they get stuff like my hatred incarnate which was SOOO powerfull they put a 2 hour recast on it...(100% dmg 30 seconds) that clerics can surpass that once every 10 minutes.... I mean wtf??? defensive FIGHTER and defensive HEALER... you see the point?

Now they surpass warriors in burst dmg for those 30 seconds..... THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT OVERSIGHT.... warriors got NOTHING else but tanking and dps... now clerics out dps even them and you got the nerve to compare clerics to bards... how about putting them in a group together with eachothers buffs? your talking about a healing tanking DPSIng machine that should be a raid boss not a player.

No your just trying to have fun here on the boards durango... your not seirous when you say those things because I have seen you make intelligent post. You KNOW its over the top and just want your cake and eat it too..... just letting you know.. we arent that stupid. I have been tanking sicne EQ1 from Fated VZ to Leviathan SH back to Aduentus XK and then on to other games.... I could care less about your opinion about me or other people.... because like I said who can take you serious

[durango]

Really? and what mr expert tank makes it a joke? its over 60 DPS Im and the clerics weapon is... cough 27 DPS.... funny how you ignore the fact that the cleric has a 27 dps 1h weapon and I have a 63 (i think) DPS weapon and she can out damage me at level 22. Funny out of all that thats what you chose to look at... I have several weapons from Rhaz... I choose the longsword because ultimately it is the best high level quest ive done. Also those weapons are on par with the drops in Afrit (which I have 3 of in my bag) and next your gonna tell me how much the Djuul axe rocks over the greystone one.. I havent bothered to get it.. let me give you a quick class son.

Then you should respec your warriors, our warriors do significantly more damage than that in defensive mode, and a hell of a lot more in offensive mode.


Heres another thing.... my gear... is ok.. half and half rare and heroic. I have about the same mitigation in Def as a self buffed cleric in healing stance (warcaller) around 40%. with buffs I can hit around 60... yes passing the cleric who can also get the bear buff ect. 40% vs 60% I know your think 1k hit is 600 and the other is 400...... mitigated. Not a huge difference at this time.. maybe in raid content that 20% will shine but right now a cleric can tank anything out there... to say anything else is too lie.

If you aren't hitting cap or OVER IT as a warrior, you simply fail at this game. FYI, at end game content, a warrior is getting hit for 1k-1.4k per hit while a cleric or ranger, or bard is taking 2k-2.8k.

Now my beef with clerics is there damage.... I say let them have a GREAT defense... and some melee moves... but a frigging combat stance that adds 30% damage on top of everything else and 10 accuracy and 15 BLOCK in the same stance is frigging over the top man..... you dont want to admit that.

Do I think the war affinity cleric is overdone? YES. But that isn't what the majority of people have been talking about. If you have an issue, focus on the issue.

also later they get stuff like my hatred incarnate which was SOOO powerfull they put a 2 hour recast on it...(100% dmg 30 seconds) that clerics can surpass that once every 10 minutes.... I mean wtf??? defensive FIGHTER and defensive HEALER... you see the point?

I would much rather have the buffs that shaman and warrior get that make every attack a critical in all honesty, its far more powerful.

Now they surpass warriors in burst dmg for those 30 seconds..... THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT OVERSIGHT.... warriors got NOTHING else but tanking and dps... now clerics out dps even them and you got the nerve to compare clerics to bards... how about putting them in a group together with eachothers buffs? your talking about a healing tanking DPSIng machine that should be a raid boss not a player.

I still stand by my claim that a properly outfitted warrior out DPS over the encounter a war spec cleric, cause its what I've observed everytime with lvl 50 toons.

No your just trying to have fun here on the boards durango... your not seirous when you say those things because I have seen you make intelligent post. You KNOW its over the top and just want your cake and eat it too..... just letting you know.. we arent that stupid. I have been tanking sicne EQ1 from Fated VZ to Leviathan SH back to Aduentus XK and then on to other games.... I could care less about your opinion about me or other people.... because like I said who can take you serious

FYI I haven't gone war spec myself precisely because it will be nerfed into oblivion, but I've been having fun in this thread because people are lumping all the affinities together. The only affinity that has issues is war affinity, the others are fine and balanced.

But FYI I do stand by my point that bard is either the highest or second highest DPS class in the game. And they are BRUTAL in kiting and PVP now that more bards have figured out how to use the damage songs :)

And FYI I believe they need to increase the mitigation cap for both pallies and warrior back to where it was. They nerfed it down to the same "base" lvl as DK while DK gets higher DPS, better self buffs, and a highly effective heal. I think warrior should softcap at 75%, pallies at 70%, and keep DKs at the current softcap of 65%. I also think they need to raise the cleric softcap to 40-45% from the current 30%.

Also think they should double the amount of HP a warrior get from CON, hell double everything a warrior get from con. Make it a usefull stat for them.

And trust me, in RI the only clerics soloing bosses are exploiting, and a 50 cleric gets 1 hit in volcano (5k hits FTL!!!) while a warrior gets 3 hit.

[Gecon]

I can only laugh whenever I read that War is so "overpowered". Yeah, maybe in PvP, I have no idea about that.

But even if they really get the dps of a Warrior in offensive mode, compared to the stuff that the other affinities, especially Preservation, get - its almost harmless. Preservation gets no less than a long palette of defenses and utility stuff for healing, and IMMUNITY TO STUN. Where stun is THE Cleric killer in the game, and the defense stuff is making Clerics better at something they are already good at. Peace of course gets their insane root and invis on self, and well some other stuff. Even Death gets a snare, fear, and a DoT.

And what does War get ? DPS ! And DPS. Other than that, DPS. Oh, and they get also ... you wont believe it ! DPS !

Its a hellish boring affinity, the only worse is Purity.

Overpowered ? Nerfed into Oblivion ? I dont think so. DPS is all they get. Either you have to give them something else as well or you have to let them keep their dps.

Leaves of course the question open if the overall dps of clerics shouldnt be nerfed.

[durango]

I can only laugh whenever I read that War is so "overpowered". Yeah, maybe in PvP, I have no idea about that.

But even if they really get the dps of a Warrior in offensive mode, compared to the stuff that the other affinities, especially Preservation, get - its almost harmless. Preservation gets no less than a long palette of defenses and utility stuff for healing, and IMMUNITY TO STUN. Where stun is THE Cleric killer in the game, and the defense stuff is making Clerics better at something they are already good at. Peace of course gets their insane root and invis on self, and well some other stuff. Even Death gets a snare, fear, and a DoT.

And what does War get ? DPS ! And DPS. Other than that, DPS. Oh, and they get also ... you wont believe it ! DPS !

Its a hellish boring affinity, the only worse is Purity.

Overpowered ? Nerfed into Oblivion ? I dont think so. DPS is all they get. Either you have to give them something else as well or you have to let them keep their dps.

Leaves of course the question open if the overall dps of clerics shouldnt be nerfed.

VERY VERY HIGH DPS and a significant defense increase. A properly geared war affinity cleric is on par with a ranger in DPS. Its far too high of a DPS increase vs the downside (which at present doesn't really exist).

[warakus]

I have no reason to get my mit up that high... now this is a seperate issue... I didnt come here to be time sunk and grind every frigging thing.. I wont do it... I cant do it... I would rather find a game that does not require skillless mind numbing grinds to progress. Hopefully it gets fixed.
I play A DK. DKs are ok.. but they are no where near as powerfull as SKs were in EQ.. and they do not need to be a lower form of tank. If they did this then we should be on par with lower end DPS classes dps.... wars out dps us. We do get some self healing that we basically dont use in soem places... cant use. not if you wanna keep aggro. When I have a healer and im multi tanking mobs and making sure adds stay on me... the last thing I got time for is shadow step and harrow... and I sure wont cast my lifetap ill take 3 times the damage then.

We also have a cleric level 50 thats war spec.. he has 40% mit... i thought the cap was 30?? also thats wiithout bear buff shm buffs pally buffs... makes me wonder if its right. clerics should not be 30 anyway it should be higher... plate is plate... but the dps is the issue to me.. you cant have supreme survivability and that kind of dps.

DKs and war and pallies are ont he lower end of the spectrum...anyone with skill can defeat them in most cases.

DOnt let a DK hit you when he uses HI..... if he puts DC5 on you run out of range exit combat and he just wasted a 30 minute cool down because DC drops alot of times. Theres so many ways to bug SS/Harrow when i fgith DKs on other toons I do it about 60% of the time to them... maybe more.

My Damage in defensive without a bard is slightly over th 22 war clrics max hits. these are non epic hit... for about 1200-1500. with a 28 dps weapon (new eapon) I have 550 or so strength unbuffed... she haa around 200 seld buffed. Now why in the world would we even be close? Theres a flaw here... some kind of bug thats allowing alot more damage then should be... that 1500 should be an epic or legendary hit at 22... 600 would be fine for a crit.

PVP with a 2h axe greystone which is only 20 points under the Djuul axe top end damage. I hit for around 500-800 and crit for 1100-1200. Thats a serious joke compared to the damage thats out there. I have alllready hit crit for 900 crit ont he 22 cleric... somethings wrong here.

This can also be blamed on ability scaling for melees... cleric s have better fiishers later on that add over 400 or so damage.. they are better.

So they need to fix this shit... the DPS has to come down whether its from bugs or design its too much.. sure a cleric will kill a tank.. but gzus they should spend at least 30% mana killing an even level tank.

Mana regen on all healers is nuts.... dmg is too high in pvp... and the pVP is too fast and lopsided.

[rhagz]

I still stand by my claim that a properly outfitted warrior out DPS over the encounter a war spec cleric, cause its what I've observed everytime with lvl 50 toons.


VERY VERY HIGH DPS and a significant defense increase. A properly geared war affinity cleric is on par with a ranger in DPS. Its far too high of a DPS increase vs the downside (which at present doesn't really exist).

So according to these two statements, warriors also outdps rangers?

[durango]

So according to these two statements, warriors also outdps rangers?

They can in offensive stance and if they are crit spec with a two hander. 2x crit damage is big. On the other hand a top spec ranger, will out DPS both a warrior and a war cleric but it requires the ranger have some pretty hard to come by crafted weapons (the crystals are the limiter there).

Thats the nice thing about this game, you can take any given class and greatly vary what they do and how they work based on stats and gear.

[Seven_PRX]

From Test center notes:

- Cleric – you must now wait 15 seconds after changing into Aspect of the Destroyer or Deathbringer’s Mein before changing into another form.

Well, all of you whiners have done it - the new stances are officially nerfed and useless.

Most of you know A LOT can happen in 15 seconds, so going into the new stances is too risky - meaning nobody will use them anymore. If they want the make the new stances useful, in that case remove or lower the healing penalty. I for one won't be found in the new stance anymore, because it would mean group wipes galore.

Great. I think we are the only class who actually have a 15second timer on changing stances - can we please add this delay to ALL classes to keep it the same.

[warakus]

From Test center notes:



Well, all of you whiners have done it - the new stances are officially nerfed and useless.

Most of you know A LOT can happen in 15 seconds, so going into the new stances is too risky - meaning nobody will use them anymore. If they want the make the new stances useful, in that case remove or lower the healing penalty. I for one won't be found in the new stance anymore, because it would mean group wipes galore.

Great. I think we are the only class who actually have a 15second timer on changing stances - can we please add this delay to ALL classes to keep it the same. Again too bad the only real mistake was giving clerics this crap anyways. You never should have had the best melee stance in the game or casting stance... I mean wtf are you crying about?

Also this heal block clerics have needs to get removed... it should be on necros or DKs... this whole game has been ass backwards when it comes to giving out abilities.

Im sure you will rationalize it however but the bottom line is this nerf isnt enough.. the stance is for DPS... not for you to choose to be the best whatever in the game.. now go back to healing stfu and be happy you didnt roll a disciple who SHOULD have gotten upgrades like this.

[Gecon]

From Test center notes: Can you please NOT copy this statement into EVERY Cleric thread out there ? Its anoying.

[Seven_PRX]

Can you please NOT copy this statement into EVERY Cleric thread out there ? Its anoying.

You don't have to read every thread, but apparantly you do, so stop complaining. And it's not in all Cleric threads, it's only in the threads about people complaining about Clerics being overpowered, I thought I'd tell them they have achieved their goal and can stop complaining now, and start whining about other things.

[durango]

Again too bad the only real mistake was giving clerics this crap anyways. You never should have had the best melee stance in the game or casting stance... I mean wtf are you crying about?

Also this heal block clerics have needs to get removed... it should be on necros or DKs... this whole game has been ass backwards when it comes to giving out abilities.

Im sure you will rationalize it however but the bottom line is this nerf isnt enough.. the stance is for DPS... not for you to choose to be the best whatever in the game.. now go back to healing stfu and be happy you didnt roll a disciple who SHOULD have gotten upgrades like this.

heal on block is preservation, not war affinity warakus.

[warakus]

heal on block is preservation, not war affinity warakus.
I call the 80% healing debuff a heal block sorry the litany name allways evades me :)

[mscouts777]

I call the 80% healing debuff a heal block sorry the litany name allways evades me :)

litany of enjoining is something every cleric gets.... but please... lets take a moment to put this into perspective.....

Litany of Enjoining gives a healing debuff of 80% for 30 seconds.....

Paladins Deny Life..... gives 75% healing debuff.... for 90 seconds

stop bitching at cleric when you dont know who has what.....

[mscouts777]

heal on block is preservation, not war affinity warakus.

preservation do not get a heal on block ability

[warakus]

litany of enjoining is something every cleric gets.... but please... lets take a moment to put this into perspective.....

Litany of Enjoining gives a healing debuff of 80% for 30 seconds.....

Paladins Deny Life..... gives 75% healing debuff.... for 90 seconds

stop bitching at cleric when you dont know who has what.....

I know what each class has.. I just dont remember the exact names.... and I will bitch all I want thanks anyways :)

I was against Paladins getting deny life... as well because again its a debuff should have went ot a debuff class being as powerfull as it is. Ahhh well.

[mscouts777]

I know what each class has.. I just dont remember the exact names.... and I will bitch all I want thanks anyways :)

I was against Paladins getting deny life... as well because again its a debuff should have went ot a debuff class being as powerfull as it is. Ahhh well.

Im sorry...I would like to listen to you.... but all I hear is "whine whine whine whine"

L2P

[warakus]

Im sorry...I would like to listen to you.... but all I hear is "whine whine whine whine"

L2P

LOL L2P? You think this game takes some amazing skill? You think playing a cleric in this game takes skill? EQ one may have become old but at least with CH chains a mistake or a fizzle could cost you a raid if you werent on top of it. Hell at least they had raids!

I like how people like you make comments because your defending something that is an obvious error in balance. Learn to play should be applied to people that think these are needed for the class.... did you know.. right now I cleric can fill allmost EVERY role in the game?

Snare/root
Mez
Debuff
DPS
Healing
Tanking
Buffing
Aggro wipe
Pacify

and we are talking about some of them being BETTER then the classes that get it as a prime ability (example 60 second mez) Wonder what a Psi is suppossed to do for a main role now?

You could virtually make all cleric groups... with different affinities and do BETTER then a mixed group. The exception being buffs (other buffs) and a bard to increase DPS even more. Sure a ranger out DPSes a cleric (god I hope so) but by enough to really make it matter? If you cant see this then you need to L2P :)

[durango]

preservation do not get a heal on block ability

Boon of the Shieldmaiden is a lvl 50 preservation affinity ability that heals for 375+ on every block.

[durango]

LOL L2P? You think this game takes some amazing skill? You think playing a cleric in this game takes skill? EQ one may have become old but at least with CH chains a mistake or a fizzle could cost you a raid if you werent on top of it. Hell at least they had raids!

I like how people like you make comments because your defending something that is an obvious error in balance. Learn to play should be applied to people that think these are needed for the class.... did you know.. right now I cleric can fill allmost EVERY role in the game?

Snare/root
Mez
Debuff
DPS
Healing
Tanking
Buffing
Aggro wipe
Pacify

and we are talking about some of them being BETTER then the classes that get it as a prime ability (example 60 second mez) Wonder what a Psi is suppossed to do for a main role now?

You could virtually make all cleric groups... with different affinities and do BETTER then a mixed group. The exception being buffs (other buffs) and a bard to increase DPS even more. Sure a ranger out DPSes a cleric (god I hope so) but by enough to really make it matter? If you cant see this then you need to L2P :)

Man as usual, you are good for a laugh and as usual you are wrong.

[mscouts777]

did you know.. right now I cleric can fill allmost EVERY role in the game?

Snare/root
Mez
Debuff
DPS
Healing
Tanking
Buffing
Aggro wipe
Pacify

and we are talking about some of them being BETTER then the classes that get it as a prime ability (example 60 second mez) Wonder what a Psi is suppossed to do for a main role now?

You could virtually make all cleric groups... with different affinities and do BETTER then a mixed group. The exception being buffs (other buffs) and a bard to increase DPS even more. Sure a ranger out DPSes a cleric (god I hope so) but by enough to really make it matter? If you cant see this then you need to L2P :)

mez?..... now granted I am not caught up on ALL the other affinities, but I dont know if a 6 second stun counts as a "mez"

aggro wipe? I know that peace affinity has de-aggro abilities.... but then, so do druids, and other classes.

tanking?.... you DO KNOW that a cleric has FAR less mitigation than you do right?.... (unless you have all green armor) lol

snare/root? I have 1 root, which breaks when a strong wind blows against the mob

healing?..... well gosh.... I would hope so

pacify? so does sorc, druid, paladin buff (gift of peace), and a number of other classes

debuff?..... lol... litany, and smiting blow.... what else we got?

buffing? EVERY class (other than your precious DRK) has buffs..... CMN

DPS? wow.... since I have a defensive build I do a wopping..... 135 DPS.... (according to attack range) if you dont do at least double this, you should quit the game


so in essence...... I am telling you..... to cry more... and L2P your own class

[mscouts777]

Boon of the Shieldmaiden is a lvl 50 preservation affinity ability that heals for 375+ on every block.

sweet..... only a half a level to go..... lol

[warakus]

Man as usual, you are good for a laugh and as usual you are wrong.

Your as vague as usual.... What can you diagree with... what cant clerics do? Please enlighten us as to what I put up there that is wrong? I pasted the affinties in a coupel of places...that list came form personal experience and the written description of the affinties.. who in the rigght mind would go purity... wow cant beleive that one is even an option when its the only one thats balanced.

[mscouts777]

Your as vague as usual.... What can you diagree with... what cant clerics do? Please enlighten us as to what I put up there that is wrong? I pasted the affinties in a coupel of places...that list came form personal experience and the written description of the affinties.. who in the rigght mind would go purity... wow cant beleive that one is even an option when its the only one thats balanced.

you sir, are a jealous moron....

what cant clerics do?.....

we cant tank end game bosses.... (we dont have the mitigation)
we cant mez mobs.....
we cant chain time trick players
we cant run at 400 speed
we cant deflect a sorcs spells for long (our nimbus of warding is borked)
if we do alot of DPS, its because we have no defenses
if we build into defenses we cant do alot of DPS
we cant "un-aggro" mobs
we cant have pets
we cant stealth
we cant invis (only to undead)..woopdy doo
we cant use bows.... so we only have a 25 meter range for throwing hammers
we cant use our one really good special attack on players (turn undead)--(unless a necro is kind enough to make them undead....lol)
we cant charm mobs
we cant duel wield

NOR should we be able to..... WHY?..... because THEN.... we would be overpowered....

so please take this time to STFU..... thank you and drive thru

[Jebus]

you sir, are a jealous moron....

what cant clerics do?.....

we cant tank end game bosses.... Yes you can.
we cant mez mobs..... You have stuns.
we cant chain time trick players Oh no!
we cant run at 400 speed Get a bard friend?
we cant deflect a sorcs spells for long Your ward shields do it better than anyone else.
if we do alot of DPS, its because we have no defenses Wrong
if we build into defenses we cant do alot of DPS Wrong
we cant "un-aggro" mobs Stun+invuln+ws+dps+plate+heal FTW
we cant have pets 'Curing the curse' quest FTW
we cant stealth Invis trumps stealth
we cant invis (only to undead) It works in PVP
we cant use bows.... Oh no!

NOR should we be able to..... WHY?..... because THEN.... we would be overpowered....

so please take this time to STFU..... thank you and drive thru

You are OVERPOWERED.

Next.

[mscouts777]

wow..... u totally ignored what I said in what clerics CANT do......

if you fail to realize that our mitigation is MUCH lower than a protective fighter.... then that is on you...

if you fail to realize that ANYONE can get the "pet" you alluded to then you are ignorant

if you fail to realize that a 6 second stun is not the same as a 45 second MEZ, then you are retarded...

if you fail to realize that anyone can group with a bard and get 400 run speed, then you are blind

if you fail to realize that you totally dont know what "un-aggroing" a mob is, then you need to stop playing this game

if you fail to realize that this game doesnt revolve around PvP then you probably ride the short bus

if you fail to realize that ,..... well, u get the idea.....

stop being a hater... stop being jealous.... and Learn to play your own class..... I have a druid, and a cleric..... I have also leveld a warrior and a dread knight in beta..... I have played shamans, bards, and sorcs....

each class has its own flavor..... if you want the cleric stuff... role a cleric.... otherwise STFU and quit your F'ing bitching

[Jebus]

wow..... u totally ignored what I said in what clerics CANT do......

if you fail to realize that our mitigation is MUCH lower than a protective fighter.... then that is on you...

if you fail to realize that ANYONE can get the "pet" you alluded to then you are ignorant

if you fail to realize that a 6 second stun is not the same as a 45 second MEZ, then you are retarded...

if you fail to realize that anyone can group with a bard and get 400 run speed, then you are blind

if you fail to realize that you totally dont know what "un-aggroing" a mob is, then you need to stop playing this game

if you fail to realize that this game doesnt revolve around PvP then you probably ride the short bus

if you fail to realize that ,..... well, u get the idea.....

stop being a hater... stop being jealous.... and Learn to play your own class..... I have a druid, and a cleric..... I have also leveld a warrior and a dread knight in beta..... I have played shamans, bards, and sorcs....

each class has its own flavor..... if you want the cleric stuff... role a cleric.... otherwise STFU and quit your F'ing bitching

So there were condition's to each of your points? I must have missed that memo.

If you fail to realize that you are absurdly overpowered, learn2play.

Try again.

[Jebus]

There is a dbl damage bug introduced when affinities were put in. The war affinity double attack skill is the culprit, as it is mistakenly being given to all clerics for free, and is always on. You don't see two attacks, but the damage we do is near double what it should be. I'm assuming instead of 2 swings dmg is just multiplied. This is getting fixed, maybe will be in for next patch.

Na, you cler-boys were right, you weren't overpowered at all! lmao, enjoy!

[durango]

You are OVERPOWERED.

we cant tank end game bosses.... Yes you can.

yeah, cause being 1 hit counts as tanking. Have you actually fought the end game mobs?

we cant mez mobs..... You have stuns.

everyone and their neighbor has stuns

we cant deflect a sorcs spells for long Your ward shields do it better than anyone else.

oh noes, 4 hits shield, oh noes.

if we do alot of DPS, its because we have no defenses Wrong
if we build into defenses we cant do alot of DPS Wrong

right actually

we cant "un-aggro" mobs Stun+invuln+ws+dps+plate+heal FTW

REACHING FTW

we cant have pets 'Curing the curse' quest FTW

REACHING FTW

we cant invis (only to undead) It works in PVP

Um, no it doesn't!

[Gecon]

This thread is such an awful read.

Just for example, someone says Clerics have no Mezz and the other says, no, you have stun. Since when is a stun a mezz ? I'm not saying stun is useless or we dont have stun, but its no damn mezz.

This discussion is a pain.

[Seven_PRX]

There is a dbl damage bug introduced when affinities were put in. The war affinity double attack skill is the culprit, as it is mistakenly being given to all clerics for free, and is always on. You don't see two attacks, but the damage we do is near double what it should be. I'm assuming instead of 2 swings dmg is just multiplied. This is getting fixed, maybe will be in for next patch.

Ok, so right now we are doing double damage, which is a bug. Most of the people complaining here say we do too much damage. So, next patch, when this will be fixed, our damage will already be half of what we do now. That way, our damage will be nowhere near as good as it is now.

But, because so many people are complaining, other stuff will be nerfed too, so we will basicly end up being nerfed a lot.

[warakus]

- Aspect of the Destroyer
+30% damage, +10% accuracy, +15% block chance. Heals -75%. BEST MELEE STANCE IN GAME
- Might of Ghalnn This has to do with melee and tanking
"Your Endowment of Fervor spell will now grant additional strength and constitution when used."
- Avatar of Ghalnn
10 minute reuse, 30 second duration. +20% damage, +10% crit chance, immune to stun and knockback. Self only. Hmm seems to be better then alot of O/melee and D/melee abilities.Damn thats nice not quite hatred incarnate
- Speed of Ghalnn
10 minute reuse, doesn't put a buff or duration of anything on you (Still testing this out) Causes all of your melee attacks to strike twice. I'll update this one when I try it out on a mob that won't die in one hit. Hmm I guess they do get hatred incarnate... only our recast is 2 hours
- Barrier of Carnage
1 minute reuse, almost exactly like Aegis of Blades. AOE dmg shield, any opponent within 6m takes 311 to 330 damage every 3 seconds, lasts 36 seconds. Edit: This does not stack with Aegis of Blades. One will cancel out the other. dont care about this
- Blood Hammer V
10 endurance, Finisher. 400% weapon damage +357 to 380. hmmm bout as good as my finisher
- Hammer of Carnage IV More in the melee realm
10 Endurance, Finisher. 400% weapon damage + 429 to 456 Again all the finishers are as good or better then minenice
- Truncheon of Ghalnn III
10 Endurance, Finisher. 400% weapon damage + 502 to 531.WOW! better then mine
- Punishing Strike III
Counterattack after a successful block, dealing 300% weapon damage plus 294 to 315. No endurance cost, no reuse. Guess Paladins should give this up to clerics tooGO GO CLERLADINS!!!



Peace:
- Harmony of Being:
Passive skill, "Harmony of Being", Increases the power of your Pacify spell and adds to the intelligence portion of Bestowal of Brilliance (by 10).
- Edict of Peace:
Pacifism overcomes your target, reducing damage by 150
- Power of Peace: hmm the anti shaman ward.. probably better
You consecrate your weapon with the power of peace, reducing your opponent's hatred of you by 375 to 399 on every hit
- Ethereality:
Temporarily makes you imperceptible to enemies who are not already aware of your existence This invis?
- Penitence
Allows your opponent to see the error of its ways, eliminating its hatred for others and reducing the range at which it will react with anger.
- Durance
Imprisons your offensive target in a spiritual prison, completely preventing movement for 60 seconds. GO GO CLERONISIST
- Absolution
Calms all opponents within 10m, making them less agressive towards you.
- Blessing of Tranquility
A soothing aura causes your targetr's melee and spell attacks to generate 30% less hatred
- Truce
Your affinity allows you to demand a truce between all enemies and yourself. All enemies will temporarily forget your previous actions.
LOL THEY GAVE the one special thing Disc had to clerics too hello FD!!
Death:

- Soul Mastery (stance):
You are filled with the power of death, increasing spiritual damage by 30%, the critical hit chance of spiritual spells by 10%, while reducing the energy cost of spells by 20%. While in this form your healing power will be dimished by 90%.
This should have been the 3rd DK stance
- Wraith Touch:
You consecrate your weapon with the power of death adding the chance to drain 21 to 26 life each attack.

- Soul schism:
Weakens your offensive target's soul, causing it to be 30% more susceptible to critical hits. not quite hamstring but dang thats nice... bet that bumps up the dps a bit and better then DC5 crit rate


- Spectral Anchor:
Binds the soul of your offensive target, lowering movement by 60% and causing 799 to 844 damage over 30 sec. [COLOR="red"]better then DK snare NIce grats guys
- Necrosis:
You corrupt the flesh of your offensive target causing 2318 to 2442 damage over 48 sectheres torture.. yes please complain about it.. ours is worse
- Terror:
You don the face of death, causing your offensive target to run away in terror for 12 sec GO GO CLERCROKNIGHTS

- Gloom:
A thick pall of despair settles around your offensive target, reducing accuracy by 20% for 60 sec.hmm Kind of like my DC debuff
- Deaths' Kiss:
Powerful spiritual energy blasts your offensive target, dealing 1710 to 1802 Theres WOD! Please complain about this too thats about what my WoD hits for

Preservation:

- Aspect of the Guardian (stance):
You don the armor of Gloriann which increases your block chance by 15%, grants immunity to stun and 15% spell damage absorption. nope clerics cant tank.. Im must be HIGH- Power of the Preserver
Your ability to augment the life and armor of your allies is further bolstered by your dedication to the goddes, Glorian. Your resolution spell will grant increased hit points and armor class.
- Divine Aura
Same deal as Divine barrier
- Nimbus of Warding
Surrounds your defensive target with a shield that reflects an incoming spell for 5 min or 2 charges
- Holy Command
You command your offensive target to sto what it is doing, stunning it for 6 sec. The same target can only be subject to one command every 60 sec.
- Balance
Equalizes your group's life, taking the total remaining hit points of everyone in the group dividing it evenly amongst all party members.
- Protection
Rescues your defensive target from an incoming attack, healing them for 1 and causing the offender to target you for 3 to 5 attacks
- Boon of the Shieldmaiden
Gloriann blesses you for your dedication. Your chance to block will be increased by 5% and each time you are attacked you will be healed for 375 nope this wouldnt help them tank at all nope nope

Sigil's Official Description

A servant of the divine, the Cleric heeds the call of his deity in all things. For this devotion the Cleric is able to share a portion of the power of his god. These powers manifest themselves in the form of powerful healing spells that enable him to tend to fallen and wounded allies. He is also granted mighty destructive spells that enable him to punish those who would defy his master's will. Clerics are also capable melee combatants.

Sigil's Official Description

The Dread Knight is a terrifying opponent who surrounds himself in battle with a tangible pall of fear and despair. These grim warriors use dark magic to empower and augment their already potent martial abilities. The aura of fear the Dread Knight radiates in combat demoralizes and weakens any opponent who dares draw near.

Sigil's Official Description

The Warrior is a mighty combatant who uses his strength of arm and will to ensure the elimination of his foes. A seasoned veteran of many conflicts, the Warrior is an able battlefield tactician who inspires his allies and leads them toward victory. Warriors excel at melee combat but have little in the form of ranged attacks

Sigil's Official Description

The Psionicist is the master of the psionic energies, having abilities to give the power to blast foes with mental energy, create large area destructive spells, stop a foe's heart and even enter opponents minds, rendering them paralyzed. The Psionicist uses powers to destroy the enemy ranks and to protect and augment his allies. The Psionicist is a poor melee combatant, but his vast mental powers more than make up for it.

Sigil's Official Description

Disciples are well versed in the manifesting of inner strength and focused in their efforts to heal and uplift allies. Even though their main priority is keeping their fellow adventurers alive, they are still highly capable melee fighters and can weaken enemies as well as inflict pain. Their physical discipline affects all around them and is manifested in harmonic bonds they share with their allies and dissonant bonds they force upon their foes.

I like how people like you make comments because your defending something that is an obvious error in balance. Learn to play should be applied to people that think these are needed for the class.... did you know.. right now I cleric can fill allmost EVERY role in the game?

Snare/root
Mez
Debuff
DPS
Healing
Tanking
Buffing
Aggro wipe
Pacify

and we are talking about some of them being BETTER then the classes that get it as a prime ability (example 60 second mez) Wonder what a Psi is suppossed to do for a main role now?

You could virtually make all cleric groups... with different affinities and do BETTER then a mixed group. The exception being buffs (other buffs) and a bard to increase DPS even more. Sure a ranger out DPSes a cleric (god I hope so) but by enough to really make it matter? If you cant see this then you need to L2P

[BigPapaBruno]

- Cleric – Ethereality was supposed to be trainable at level 30. This has been fixed.
- Cleric – Ethereality now works as intended.
- Cleric – Aspect of the Destroyer no longer increases cast time.
- Cleric – Wraith Touch now returns the correct amount of hit points
- Cleric – Increased the power of Wraith Touch.
- Cleric – Affinity removal quests are now available. Please visit the trainer that gave you the initial affinity quest.
- Cleric – Absolution no longer affects those NPCs that are not currently attacking you.
- Cleric – Fixed an issue with Deathbringer’s Mien. It now increases spiritual damage by 30% rather than a raw amount.
- Cleric – Lowered the amount drained with Wraith Touch
- Cleric – you must now wait 15 seconds after changing into Aspect of the Destroyer or Deathbringer’s Mein before changing into another
form.
- Cleric – Necrosis and Spectral Anchor now stack properly



Lol.. all that crying for nothing. Thanks SoE. Keep up the good work.

[durango]

mental envy by warakus deleted

Ya know, your obsession is getting to be quite funny. OMG not another root, it will totally be an AoE instant cast mez!

Seriously, I can go through EVERY class in this game and pick out aspects of other classes. Its part of what makes it a unique game.

[mscouts777]

<Warakus admits that Mscouts777 E-peen is bigger>

dude.... thats all you had to say..... lol.... its all cool now.

[warakus]

Huh? Um ok.... Good points! Guess thats the best argument you clowns can give lol... can we say OWNED! :)

[durango]

Huh? Um ok.... Good points! Guess thats the best argument you clowns can give lol... can we say OWNED! :)

Warakus, we're still waiting for an actual argument from you besides: you can do things other classes can do which is true for EVERY DAMN CLASS IN THE GAME! No class is a unique flower, they are all blended together.

I assume you want a game as follows:
Tanks = do no damage, take damage, hold aggro
DPS Melee = die in a strong wind, do damage, nothing else
Healer = might as well be heal bots
Casters = Do massive damage, randomly drop dead from breathing oxygen
Bard/Psi = do no damage, die from random feathers, CC
Buff Class = buff. Um thats it.


Oh vey, what a fun game.

[warakus]

Warakus, we're still waiting for an actual argument from you besides: you can do things other classes can do which is true for EVERY DAMN CLASS IN THE GAME! No class is a unique flower, they are all blended together.

I assume you want a game as follows:
Tanks = do no damage, take damage, hold aggro
DPS Melee = die in a strong wind, do damage, nothing else
Healer = might as well be heal bots
Casters = Do massive damage, randomly drop dead from breathing oxygen
Bard/Psi = do no damage, die from random feathers, CC
Buff Class = buff. Um thats it.


Oh vey, what a fun game.

Hey Durango ol pal... for someone whos a hard talker.. How come you got 40 infamy? I mean I can understand you dying to a full group like the one I was in... but your guildmates hid while you got drilled twice. 40 infamy theres no excuse for that.... I mean Ive been camped before and gotten low but any self respecting PVPer would at least go get it back above 100! Please sir... dont ever tell anyone else how to play :) all your post from here on out on PVP to me are to be laughed at... get some pride and go PVP..

Oh yea and your guild 3 level 50s... was camping my level 30 alt... hence we came to kill 50s... notice we came after people our level .... and not people 20 levels lower... I will however trounce any low levels I happen to run into from your guild :)

I can see with your skill level why you think clerics need to be bufffed LOL...

[BigPapaBruno]

Hey Durango ol pal... for someone whos a hard talker.. How come you got 40 infamy? I mean I can understand you dying to a full group like the one I was in... but your guildmates hid while you got drilled twice. 40 infamy theres no excuse for that.... I mean Ive been camped before and gotten low but any self respecting PVPer would at least go get it back above 100! Please sir... dont ever tell anyone else how to play :) all your post from here on out on PVP to me are to be laughed at... get some pride and go PVP..

Oh yea and your guild 3 level 50s... was camping my level 30 alt... hence we came to kill 50s... notice we came after people our level .... and not people 20 levels lower... I will however trounce any low levels I happen to run into from your guild :)

I can see with your skill level why you think clerics need to be bufffed LOL...

The pot calling the kettle black...

If you notice, you are the only one crying on the forums. Now you make a weak attempt at attacking him because he doesn't have high infamy. Infamy means nothing in this game so who gives two shits.

So to make a this short and sweet... SHUT IT ALREADY.
If you don't like the way classes are make your own game. Nobody wants to hear you whine on the forums. Just because you have a cleric doesn't give you any right to say clerics should be the way you want it to be. It's obvious people don't agree with you, get over it buddy.

[warakus]

The pot calling the kettle black...

If you notice, you are the only one crying on the forums. Now you make a weak attempt at attacking him because he doesn't have high infamy. Infamy means nothing in this game so who gives two shits.

So to make a this short and sweet... SHUT IT ALREADY.
If you don't like the way classes are make your own game. Nobody wants to hear you whine on the forums. Just because you have a cleric doesn't give you any right to say clerics should be the way you want it to be. It's obvious people don't agree with you, get over it buddy. LOL You mean clerics dont agree with me. Funny Imnot the only one thats posted this... "Clerics buffed beyond absurd last patch" came out before I ever posted anything.
You get over it... My name here is my game name.. You guys talk big but I actually PVP... and I see the imbalances and there is NO reason for clerics to get litany.. There is no reason ever for a cleric to out melee

Monks
Disciples
Warriors
Paladins
Dread Knights
Rangers
Bards
Rogues

They should be on par with bear shamans not counting the pet.... because they also wear plate. You get over it... I have my voice and Im using it. Dont agree then fine


You must have low infamy too.... sure it doesnt get you anything but MOST people have enough pride to keep it over 100. I mean damn are you under 100 too? Maybe Ill look you up and find out :) Not like I set a high bar there... or some insane standard.. 100 infamy..... Maybe to you thats alot.

[BigPapaBruno]

Listen warakus I have a project for you. Go to the local bar, order a drink, and get a little loose. Then, go up to a fairly attractive girl and tell her that you have 100 infamy in a game called Vanguard. See if that gets you laid.

Enough said?
Bye now tool bag.

[warakus]

I too have less the 100 infamy and I talk big! I will do ANYTHING too divert fromt he fact that I am Horrible at pvp and have no real skill. I want my class buffed so I can compete with skilled players
Enough said?
Bye now Daddy Warakus.... I miss you.... alot.

I agree with you for once too! You CAN learn! I miss you too!

[durango]

Hey Durango ol pal... for someone whos a hard talker.. How come you got 40 infamy? I mean I can understand you dying to a full group like the one I was in... but your guildmates hid while you got drilled twice. 40 infamy theres no excuse for that.... I mean Ive been camped before and gotten low but any self respecting PVPer would at least go get it back above 100! Please sir... dont ever tell anyone else how to play :) all your post from here on out on PVP to me are to be laughed at... get some pride and go PVP..

40 infamy? Cause I don't really care about infamy genius. What is infamy but an ephemeral variable within the ether of a game. If I wanted infamy, I could just start bind camping groups.

As far as guildmates hiding, um, why would they waste there time to come out and roll your party, when all I was doing was grabbing another mount to summon them to the next named so they could progress along the quest line? It wasn't like your group was a threat to actually prevent our progress.



Oh yea and your guild 3 level 50s... was camping my level 30 alt... hence we came to kill 50s... notice we came after people our level .... and not people 20 levels lower... I will however trounce any low levels I happen to run into from your guild :)

Sure sure.

I can see with your skill level why you think clerics need to be bufffed LOL...

hehe, yes, cause 6 on 1 demonstrates skill....

[durango]

You get over it... My name here is my game name.. You guys talk big but I actually PVP... and I see the imbalances and there is NO reason for clerics to get litany.. There is no reason ever for a cleric to out melee

Monks
Disciples
Warriors
Paladins
Dread Knights
Rangers
Bards
Rogues


Clerics don't out melee: Monks, Rangers, Bard, Rogues, and decent Warrior or DK or paly. They can out Discs. But everyone FOR MONTHS has says that disc need to be buffed.

They should be on par with bear shamans not counting the pet.... because they also wear plate. You get over it... I have my voice and Im using it. Dont agree then fine

A decent shamy will do more damage than most of the cleric types, the 2 types of clerics that do more than a shamy can't heal.


You must have low infamy too.... sure it doesnt get you anything but MOST people have enough pride to keep it over 100. I mean damn are you under 100 too? Maybe Ill look you up and find out :) Not like I set a high bar there... or some insane standard.. 100 infamy..... Maybe to you thats alot.

Hehe, infamy means NOTHING in this game. Easiest way to get infamy: roll 50 sorc, AOE groups while they are on mobs. OHHH, so hard.

[warakus]

[QUOTE=durango;298258]Im so sorry I cant find a reason for not having above 100 infamy.. Now we hid in RI because we knew you guys would roll us... You see we talk crap here but in the PVP world we hide or roll level 30s with 3 50s ... now thats Skill... finding those 30s is hard work! I think we should get infamy for rolling level 30s with our 3 level 50s!

Here I will just post some drivel about shamans being better then clerics.... Damn I wished I rolled a bird shaman so I could get above 100 infamy


Hehe, infamy means NOTHING in this game when you have 36 infamy sp I will degrade it because I dont have anyQUOTE]

Your starting to make more and more sense durango... keep up the nice work.

[durango]

[QUOTE=durango;298258]Im so sorry I cant find a reason for not having above 100 infamy.. Now we hid in RI because we knew you guys would roll us... You see we talk crap here but in the PVP world we hide or roll level 30s with 3 50s ... now thats Skill... finding those 30s is hard work! I think we should get infamy for rolling level 30s with our 3 level 50s!

Here I will just post some drivel about shamans being better then clerics.... Damn I wished I rolled a bird shaman so I could get above 100 infamy


Hehe, infamy means NOTHING in this game when you have 36 infamy sp I will degrade it because I dont have anyQUOTE]

Your starting to make more and more sense durango... keep up the nice work.

First it might help if you actually learned how to quote...

Second, we could of easily rolled your group, we did have 6 healing classes FWIW, but it wasn't worth it.

Third, Apparently your epeen is big. Good for you. Unfortunately, epeen works just as good on girls as a stuffed sock.

[warakus]

[QUOTE=warakus;298262]

First it might help if you actually learned how to quote because I just make shit up...

Second, we could of easily rolled your group if we had skill, we did have 6 healing classes FWIW, but we were too scared.

Third, Apparently my epeen is big. Good for me. Unfortunately, epeen works just as good on girls as a stuffed sock.

I see, thats too much info btw... didnt really need to know all that. I mean its a game for crying out loud! To some its a stuffed sock.. to others its a holster. TO each thier own :P

[durango]

[QUOTE=durango;298273]

I see, thats too much info btw... didnt really need to know all that. I mean its a game for crying out loud! To some its a stuffed sock.. to others its a holster. TO each thier own :P

I'm pretty sure the stripper you're trying to impress already has a holster and a vibrator.

[warakus]

[QUOTE=warakus;298302]

I'm pretty sure the stripper you're trying to impress already has a holster and a vibrator.
God I hope so!

[warakus]

Does the happy clerics got nerfed dance!!! about time!

[Gecon]

Does the happy clerics got nerfed dance!!! about time! LOL - only they didnt.

They got FIXED. It was a BUG. An ERROR.

But considering the rest of your postings, I'm really not surprised you dont know the difference between a bugfix and a nerf .... :rolleyes:

[warakus]

LOL - only they didnt.

They got FIXED. It was a BUG. An ERROR.

But considering the rest of your postings, I'm really not surprised you dont know the difference between a bugfix and a nerf .... :rolleyes:

Ignoring the majority of you post has made me smarter! I guess your ignoring the fact the tons of clerics or ranting over this "Bug fix" claiming that they were JUST FINE! I hope they arent done clerics still need some tweakage.. they need to lose litany.

[BigPapaBruno]

Ignoring the majority of you post has made me smarter! I guess your ignoring the fact the tons of clerics or ranting over this "Bug fix" claiming that they were JUST FINE! I hope they arent done clerics still need some tweakage.. they need to lose litany.

You mean in your opinion (that clearly nobody on this forum agrees with) they need to lose litany.

Btw, how did the project go the other day when I told you to tell a decent looking girl that you maintain a constant 100 infamy. Did you score?

[Gecon]

Ignoring the majority of you post has made me smarter! [...] Yes, of course - ignorance makes you smarter. :D

[warakus]

You mean in your opinion (that clearly nobody on this forum agrees with) they need to lose litany.

Btw, how did the project go the other day when I told you to tell a decent looking girl that you maintain a constant 100 infamy. Did you score?

By everybody you mean like 3 or 4 clerics? Becuase I mean we can notice.. that the OP is not me, cant we oh intelligent one? So if the topic is "Celrics are overpowered" and I did not create the topic... So where di you learn math bruno? I mean thats some good math you got going there... I could also if I was willign copy and paste every post here where people say clerics are OP... also I could point out that SOE fixed them (Partially) so they agreed too.

So in essence Bruno math = I will lie and stomp my feet and cry out insults to try and make the other guy look stupid even though its blatant and I know Im insulting everyones intelligence by doing it!

Yes Bruno In your mind im sure your post is a victory.... You showed me ol boy.

[warakus]

Yes, of course - ignorance or what I spew makes you smarter. :D
There I fixed it.. now its true!