Therian
12-05-2005, 08:09 PM
813Travel is boring. I pay to play the game, not sit around waiting to play the game. I hate the grind. I've been awake forty hours straight camping the mob I need for my epic and that ****tard just stole it! To any experienced MMO-player, these will be familiar laments, the worst part of the game. So is Vanguard doing anything about fixing the classic MMO issues?
Long travel times? Are you insane??
The world is BIG, believe me.
And in this massive world of Telon (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Category:Vanguard_Atlas), there is no instant travel. No five-minute blimp ride from continent to continent. And certainly no zapping three times round the planet in time for breakfast. So how does Vanguard escape the tedium of running every day along the same route, through the same zones, interrupted by irritating trash mobs, just so you can get to a place worth visiting?
Simple. You don't do it. Vanguard, with its focus on regional hubs with local economies, is designed to encourage players to travel to an area, find or build (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Player_Structures) an outpost (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Outpost) near a desirable adventuring location, and 'move in'. Rich content is placed only a short distance away from these outposts, taking the long haul out of getting to the appropriate xp area for your level. And if you exhaust a region, or just get bored with it, then pack your bags, load the mules, get on your horses and strike out into uncharted territory. If all your guild-mates can't coordinate for the big move, then set up a caravan (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Caravan) and bring them along as cargo.
Travel becomes meaningful because you don't do it every day. Because when you do travel it takes effort, involves challenges, planning, forethought. And, since marauding pirates (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Pirate) are in the offing, danger, derring-do and damsels with cutlasses!
I chose the wrong character class! No-one wants to group with me! And there's never any clerics on!
732The ultimate tank. The best healer. Neither of them are logged on, and if they were they wouldn't group with me anyway, because my dps is nothing compared to thatotherclass. Time to spend four hours with my LFG flag up and nothing better to do than gaze at my navel. I'll just go hit my head against this brick wall, shall I?
Since Vanguard is unequivocally geared toward the group experience, what strategies are in place to allow people to actually PLAY THE GAME!?
The classes of Vanguard (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Character_class) are designed around a 'holy quartet' of jobs, but are deliberately structured so that there is no premier class which is mandatory for an effective party.
All of our classes fill a role in the Job system. Each member of a job (e.g., Rogue and Ranger are both offensive Fighters) fulfils their primary job with the same proficiency as any other member of the same job. Since the Protective Fighter's primary job is tanking, all classes that fall into this category tank with more or less the same proficiency. There may be times when the Warrior tanks better than another protective fighter, but as a general rule, in most cases, if you need a tank for your group any of the protective fighters can fill the role.
The next part is very important to understand. I mentioned primary job in the previous paragraph. This is important to note, because while each class must perform his primary job with the same skill as any other member of his job, the secondary roles of the class can and will vary wildly. This allows us a lot of options when making the classes.
The job system does some wonderful things for group creation. No more looking for that one class that you MUST in order to accomplish your plans. Need an offensive fighter? Grab one. Each one will not only perform his role as damage dealer, but he will also bring his own unique factor to the group's synergistic combat dynamic.
Homogenous classes is an easy pitfall to land in, especially when we are trying to avoid the "best class" scenario. Rest assured that we see the pitfall and we are giving it a wide breadth. The job system is pretty transparent. To use the Rogue and the Ranger as examples: They play so differently that you forget that they are filling the same role.
Additionally, in current beta implementation with a target group size of six to eight players and a hard cap of eight, there is no xp penalty for taking the full eight members to a group encounter. This design not only encourages including more members, it actively promotes a diversity of classes within groups to ensure that the maximum variety of skills is brought to the table.
353Of course, this won't entirely eliminate LFG syndrome. Fortunately, Vanguard offers a wide variety of solo and small-group activity, including fully-developed diplomacy (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Diplomacy) and crafting (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Crafting) content, and small-group (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Solo) (aka casual) adventuring which will allow players to meaningfully progress even while their LFG flag is unanswered.
But levelling up is so DULL!
The grind is cited as one of the worst aspects of an MMO. The tedium of killing the same mob over and over because it's the most efficient method of progress. While it may be possible to find THE best mob for xp grind at your level, Vanguard's system of skill progression will reward the players who spice their levelling with a bit of variety.
[I]f you did find such an area and just sat there and leveled up, you'd not be getting the loot you need, the skill ups, etc. that you would if you were doing a dungeon. Eventually you will screw yourself. The guy who thinks he can just min/max and bypass content is going to be quite surprised when he hits higher levels and finds out that because he found a way to bypass all of that content, that his character, even though it's the right level, isn't prepared for the dungeon he eventually does want to be effective in at the high levels.
Gonna be pretty hard core about this in Vanguard: if you don't experience the content you will be at a disadvantage in several ways. You will not be the studly high level character you thought you would be, ready to hit the end-game content.
Vanguard's other big weapon in the war against levelling tedium is to make the journey as interesting as the destination. How many of the great fantasy novels begin with the epic battle against the dark lord? How much fun would Lord of the Rings be if Frodo knocked off Sauron in the first chapter – then came back to do it every chapter on alternating Fridays? Wasn't it just as interesting when the pig-boy was chased from the farm? Met the shady but charming gentleman in the tavern? Won the key in a contest of riddles? Wrested the sword from the stone? The game does not begin at 50.
OMFG, UberGuild66 takes every good mob before anyone else even sees them and kill-steals everything! I'll never get my epic!!!!
Serendipitously, the absence of insta-travel in Vanguard will provide some protection against the uber-guild that mobilises to take down every Boss moments after it pops. Given the huge amount of content and the sheer size of the world, if there's a guild that can take down every major spawn in Vanguard, chances are there'll be no-one on your server who isn't in it.
[W]e are attempting to mitigate camping. We do not believe we can fully get rid of it. We want to give you reasons not to camp.
As I've also said in other posts in the past, don't expect everything to be as cut and dried concerning the location or spawn conditions of "rare" NPCs
506Although there will be some more 'traditional' camping available for those who love the sheer adrenaline of competing for a spawn, Vanguard's Advanced Encounter System (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Advanced_Encounter_System) will make many desirable spawns part of an interactive adventure which commences after a randomly-dropped trigger is obtained during the course of ordinary adventuring. These Encounter Routes are the closest thing Vanguard will have to instancing for, while players outside your party can witness the progress of your party, they cannot interfere with the events which form part of your Encounter Route. The 'Golden Mobs (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Golden_Mob)' spawned by the AES are the only locked encounters of the game, and specifically address the sheer suckiness of a party clearing the way to a Boss, only to have someone appear from nowhere and take it down.
We feel camping is bad if you are bored sitting in one place waiting for a rare to spawn.
We want people moving around playing the game in their search for rewards.
We have lots of sytems in place and in the works for this, AES, etc.
That said, there are certainly still camps of mobs. I also agree that sometimes it's nice to sit back, kill stuff, talk, etc.
So, there we have it. Four of the worst things in MMOs and a glimpse of how Vanguard intends to tackle them. Will SGO succeed in vanquishing the suck? Beta will tell.
Long travel times? Are you insane??
The world is BIG, believe me.
And in this massive world of Telon (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Category:Vanguard_Atlas), there is no instant travel. No five-minute blimp ride from continent to continent. And certainly no zapping three times round the planet in time for breakfast. So how does Vanguard escape the tedium of running every day along the same route, through the same zones, interrupted by irritating trash mobs, just so you can get to a place worth visiting?
Simple. You don't do it. Vanguard, with its focus on regional hubs with local economies, is designed to encourage players to travel to an area, find or build (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Player_Structures) an outpost (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Outpost) near a desirable adventuring location, and 'move in'. Rich content is placed only a short distance away from these outposts, taking the long haul out of getting to the appropriate xp area for your level. And if you exhaust a region, or just get bored with it, then pack your bags, load the mules, get on your horses and strike out into uncharted territory. If all your guild-mates can't coordinate for the big move, then set up a caravan (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Caravan) and bring them along as cargo.
Travel becomes meaningful because you don't do it every day. Because when you do travel it takes effort, involves challenges, planning, forethought. And, since marauding pirates (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Pirate) are in the offing, danger, derring-do and damsels with cutlasses!
I chose the wrong character class! No-one wants to group with me! And there's never any clerics on!
732The ultimate tank. The best healer. Neither of them are logged on, and if they were they wouldn't group with me anyway, because my dps is nothing compared to thatotherclass. Time to spend four hours with my LFG flag up and nothing better to do than gaze at my navel. I'll just go hit my head against this brick wall, shall I?
Since Vanguard is unequivocally geared toward the group experience, what strategies are in place to allow people to actually PLAY THE GAME!?
The classes of Vanguard (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Character_class) are designed around a 'holy quartet' of jobs, but are deliberately structured so that there is no premier class which is mandatory for an effective party.
All of our classes fill a role in the Job system. Each member of a job (e.g., Rogue and Ranger are both offensive Fighters) fulfils their primary job with the same proficiency as any other member of the same job. Since the Protective Fighter's primary job is tanking, all classes that fall into this category tank with more or less the same proficiency. There may be times when the Warrior tanks better than another protective fighter, but as a general rule, in most cases, if you need a tank for your group any of the protective fighters can fill the role.
The next part is very important to understand. I mentioned primary job in the previous paragraph. This is important to note, because while each class must perform his primary job with the same skill as any other member of his job, the secondary roles of the class can and will vary wildly. This allows us a lot of options when making the classes.
The job system does some wonderful things for group creation. No more looking for that one class that you MUST in order to accomplish your plans. Need an offensive fighter? Grab one. Each one will not only perform his role as damage dealer, but he will also bring his own unique factor to the group's synergistic combat dynamic.
Homogenous classes is an easy pitfall to land in, especially when we are trying to avoid the "best class" scenario. Rest assured that we see the pitfall and we are giving it a wide breadth. The job system is pretty transparent. To use the Rogue and the Ranger as examples: They play so differently that you forget that they are filling the same role.
Additionally, in current beta implementation with a target group size of six to eight players and a hard cap of eight, there is no xp penalty for taking the full eight members to a group encounter. This design not only encourages including more members, it actively promotes a diversity of classes within groups to ensure that the maximum variety of skills is brought to the table.
353Of course, this won't entirely eliminate LFG syndrome. Fortunately, Vanguard offers a wide variety of solo and small-group activity, including fully-developed diplomacy (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Diplomacy) and crafting (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Crafting) content, and small-group (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Solo) (aka casual) adventuring which will allow players to meaningfully progress even while their LFG flag is unanswered.
But levelling up is so DULL!
The grind is cited as one of the worst aspects of an MMO. The tedium of killing the same mob over and over because it's the most efficient method of progress. While it may be possible to find THE best mob for xp grind at your level, Vanguard's system of skill progression will reward the players who spice their levelling with a bit of variety.
[I]f you did find such an area and just sat there and leveled up, you'd not be getting the loot you need, the skill ups, etc. that you would if you were doing a dungeon. Eventually you will screw yourself. The guy who thinks he can just min/max and bypass content is going to be quite surprised when he hits higher levels and finds out that because he found a way to bypass all of that content, that his character, even though it's the right level, isn't prepared for the dungeon he eventually does want to be effective in at the high levels.
Gonna be pretty hard core about this in Vanguard: if you don't experience the content you will be at a disadvantage in several ways. You will not be the studly high level character you thought you would be, ready to hit the end-game content.
Vanguard's other big weapon in the war against levelling tedium is to make the journey as interesting as the destination. How many of the great fantasy novels begin with the epic battle against the dark lord? How much fun would Lord of the Rings be if Frodo knocked off Sauron in the first chapter – then came back to do it every chapter on alternating Fridays? Wasn't it just as interesting when the pig-boy was chased from the farm? Met the shady but charming gentleman in the tavern? Won the key in a contest of riddles? Wrested the sword from the stone? The game does not begin at 50.
OMFG, UberGuild66 takes every good mob before anyone else even sees them and kill-steals everything! I'll never get my epic!!!!
Serendipitously, the absence of insta-travel in Vanguard will provide some protection against the uber-guild that mobilises to take down every Boss moments after it pops. Given the huge amount of content and the sheer size of the world, if there's a guild that can take down every major spawn in Vanguard, chances are there'll be no-one on your server who isn't in it.
[W]e are attempting to mitigate camping. We do not believe we can fully get rid of it. We want to give you reasons not to camp.
As I've also said in other posts in the past, don't expect everything to be as cut and dried concerning the location or spawn conditions of "rare" NPCs
506Although there will be some more 'traditional' camping available for those who love the sheer adrenaline of competing for a spawn, Vanguard's Advanced Encounter System (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Advanced_Encounter_System) will make many desirable spawns part of an interactive adventure which commences after a randomly-dropped trigger is obtained during the course of ordinary adventuring. These Encounter Routes are the closest thing Vanguard will have to instancing for, while players outside your party can witness the progress of your party, they cannot interfere with the events which form part of your Encounter Route. The 'Golden Mobs (http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Golden_Mob)' spawned by the AES are the only locked encounters of the game, and specifically address the sheer suckiness of a party clearing the way to a Boss, only to have someone appear from nowhere and take it down.
We feel camping is bad if you are bored sitting in one place waiting for a rare to spawn.
We want people moving around playing the game in their search for rewards.
We have lots of sytems in place and in the works for this, AES, etc.
That said, there are certainly still camps of mobs. I also agree that sometimes it's nice to sit back, kill stuff, talk, etc.
So, there we have it. Four of the worst things in MMOs and a glimpse of how Vanguard intends to tackle them. Will SGO succeed in vanquishing the suck? Beta will tell.