VG as a PvP centric game?

[Kurron Nye]

Every time I get into Telon, and look around I cannot help feel it would be a great backdrop for DAOC-style PvP. IMHO, DAOCs Realm vs Realm style of PvP and 'territorial control' as it were could go a long way in VG.

I get those feeling whenever I run across the many keeps and fortresses scattered around, nd cannot help think "what if controlling those fortresses also meant extering some level of control over the quests it contains". For instance one 'Realm' might have killed the PC and NPC defenders, thus replacing the NPC defenders with NPCs of their own 'realm'.

Places like Charbrook Keep, South Watch, Evendusk Fortress, Dragonwier, Angoer and Neamsog Bunkers, Upside, etc.

It would certainly add some spice to the game in terms of making all the lore more meaningful, such as the Khal/Aghram/Mekalia alliance, or the relationship between Varanthari Humans, Kurashans, and Dark Elves. It also makes being KOS mean something (I for one am NOT happy that it is so easy to become non-KOS everywhere, to me that totally undermines the racial lore of the game, and removes the point in a lot of quests).

Like DAOC, there would still be PvE-only areas, perhaps making access to dungeons controlled by PvP but the dungeons themselves would be PvE only inside. (Imagine guilds being able to war over access to the APW for instance, but they could not continue the war inside).

Of course this model is not the FFA model, RvR is closely related to team-PvP, but I think VG as a whole could do very well by implementing DAOC-type PvP. (this is pretty much the direction the upcoming Warhammer MMO is going, so I dont think I am just whistling Dixie here).

I cant help but thinking how cool it would be to have a bunch of defenders holed up in Renton Keep, rangers and rogues up on the battlements, bows in hand, casters backing them up, tanks down by the gates read to repel anyone who gets in, on the outside, enemy rogues trying to sneak in, enemy rangers/archers trying to pick people off the battlements, tanks on the ground ready to rush the gate, and ballistas and catapults that actually do something.

If you sail around Kojan, you see some stuff there that makes for some damn good ocean content if ever implements, those Orc raiding ships for instance, I for one would love to see some sea battles in VG, imagine enemy players blockading Khal Harbor, or players occupying the Angoer Bunkers launching ballistas at passing ships.

Anyway thats what I would do if I were running the show. I think VG's future could be far brighter as a DAOC/RvR PvP+PVE game than as a strict PvE game that uses FFA PvP as a bone tossed to pvp players.

[Hatto]

Anyway thats what I would do if I were running the show. I think VG's future could be far brighter as a DAOC/RvR PvP+PVE game than as a strict PvE game that uses FFA PvP as a bone tossed to pvp players.
Around launch time I had quite some enthusiasm about FFA PvP, which would imo been a great chance for Vanguard to find its share of the market. RvR is not the holy grail of PvP, FFA is, as you can form your own factions. Everything was in place for a very good PvP experience. Large landmass with slow travel so gank squads can not roam too fast. No instances people can run into but instead dungeons where you can be almost sure to find enemies.

But it was ruined by a company that did not care about class balance at all, who let rampant PvP related bugs run wild for weeks, did not care about people exploiting left and right. Take a look at the Update#2 changes, finally, after SIX month they bother to fix some PvP issues that exist since launch basically.

Vanguard could've been a great PvP game, but not with RvR.

[Kurron Nye]

Around launch time I had quite some enthusiasm about FFA PvP, which would imo been a great chance for Vanguard to find its share of the market. RvR is not the holy grail of PvP, FFA is, as you can form your own factions. Everything was in place for a very good PvP experience. Large landmass with slow travel so gank squads can not roam too fast. No instances people can run into but instead dungeons where you can be almost sure to find enemies.

But it was ruined by a company that did not care about class balance at all, who let rampant PvP related bugs run wild for weeks, did not care about people exploiting left and right. Take a look at the Update#2 changes, finally, after SIX month they bother to fix some PvP issues that exist since launch basically.

Vanguard could've been a great PvP game, but not with RvR.

I dont deny what you can do with FFA PvP, but time has shown that a majority of players have a stong distaste for FFA PvP simply because it always dissovles into a digital version of "Lord of the Flies" and the combat is is more like gang warfare than anything else.

There is a lot more interesting aspects of PvP than simulating muggings and carjackings

I could just see FFA implemented in DAOC..no castle would ever get taken because the 'teams' would be too busy trying to roll each other to get a loot drop.

[Hatto]

I could just see FFA implemented in DAOC..no castle would ever get taken because the 'teams' would be too busy trying to roll each other to get a loot drop.
It works in EVE. In the end its all about what goals you give for the players to reach and what actions get rewarded. There will be always ganking and similar, but that's part of the game. RvR shows that it ends in having no way to deal with idiots in your own faction, who just ignore what's going on or, worst, do something along the lines of WoW's Battleground AFKers.

[Kurron Nye]

It works in EVE. In the end its all about what goals you give for the players to reach and what actions get rewarded. There will be always ganking and similar, but that's part of the game. RvR shows that it ends in having no way to deal with idiots in your own faction, who just ignore what's going on or, worst, do something along the lines of WoW's Battleground AFKers.

I cana ccept that, but I do see RvR as a necessity if you are going to have a game where PvE adn PvP are mixed. The fact players have places to go where there is no PvP is pretty important.

Even Eve is that way in terms of hi-sec space. Take a shot at someone in 1.0 space and the game kills you for it. In fact I have never had anyone target lock me in high-sec space let alone kill me. In that regard Empire/high sec space is really a PvE area, even though PvP is possible in all areas.

Ok so if VG is not RvR, I would prefer to see it have Eve model where PvP is possible in all areas but carries heavy penalties in some areas. Folks want rewards for PvP and I agree, but there also has to be consequences.

[Cobalty2004]

I think saying which is better RvR or FFA (in terms of PvP) only matters on the rulesets and the game foundation.

AoC would be horrible in an RvR format, and WAR wouldn't make sense FFA.