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Mack Bolan
12-20-2005, 03:24 PM
I hate posting on there lately. I try to have a discussion with someone and then it turns personal. This is one reason why i hate posting on there anymore. I really getting sick of people taking personal attacks.

Orlun
12-20-2005, 03:29 PM
I hate posting on there lately. I try to have a discussion with someone and then it turns personal. This is one reason why i hate posting on there anymore. I really getting sick of people taking personal attacks.

Your screen name insults me. "Executioner" will always be the true title for that series.


(trying to ease your transition to these forums)

Havelock
12-20-2005, 03:42 PM
The OVF is becoming really unreadable. It makes me sad.

Severoth
12-20-2005, 03:45 PM
I have to agree. The OVF are getting nearly as bad as the WoW community forums. *sigh*

Just proves that it's a good move for the devs to close down the OVF before launch.

Otarin
12-20-2005, 06:13 PM
I pretty much quit reading them after they announced Beta 0. They are fairly worthless now, with the 50 million treatises on 'game design' which can be summed up as 'OMG pick me plz! betabetabeta!!1!one!'

I just check the devtrackers now, and even those aren't all that useful now. With the exception of Jansan posting about crafting, anyone that knows anything isn't talking.

Mack Bolan
12-22-2005, 11:48 AM
Yes i agree with you orlun. The first 100 books were great, after that... suspect atleast. I have alot of the collection from back then, all first edition printings.

Loampounder
12-22-2005, 12:11 PM
It was a one-line lol moment that was ill explained; don't take it too hard, Mack. In a mass-marketed society of 40,000, you have to expect some people who uses humor ill-responsibly or does not explain their tone well enough over the internet. In a way, we want VG to be successful but not too successful.

You are still a brave man for wading into the Game Play forum at all. I still dable in the selected off topic threads and in production (just one or two, honest), probably more to be social in that community. Since it has changed, I take what I want and don't get too serious.

Azzikai
12-22-2005, 12:58 PM
I don't mind personal attacks, they are not a new phenomena over there anyway. I'm probably in the minority but I don't think the forums were really ever all that different than they are now. Perhaps back in 2003 but by the time I joined in 2004 it was relatively easy to see what the tone of the board was - what would or wouldn't be an accepted opinion (i.e. you must walk uphill both ways in the snow or else go back to WoW).

But that's normal for a community, it forms around an ideal and tends to defend it venomously. So, yeah, I can handle the personal stuff even if it is stupidly out of place. It's the "A new perspective on...", "Why <game X> failed", "What is your game breaker?", "Here's my post that only actually serves to show total strangers just how 1337 I was in EQ" and other assorted recycled nonesense that gets me. And the whole casual/hardcore business...

Mack Bolan
12-22-2005, 03:55 PM
I can take the personal attacks but it seems like that is all everyone is doing.

I am a huge supporter of PvP, but i am in the minority. I dont go out and pk for the fun of it, but i like it to be there so it makes me be into the game more. Alot more options than just PvE.

Everyone is emotional about their favorite things. Its part of human nature. But lately i swear, it seems like its all been personal attacks on alot of issues, but then again its that time of year... =)

Sergo
12-22-2005, 04:09 PM
It's the "A new perspective on...", "Why <game X> failed", "What is your game breaker?", "Here's my post that only actually serves to show total strangers just how 1337 I was in EQ" and other assorted recycled nonesense that gets me. And the whole casual/hardcore business...

Lots of new people find the forum all the time. I still post observations about what did or didn't work in a certain game, as they occur to me. It is a message board. Take away those posts and there's nothing left except treatises on pie.

I don't like personal attacks, but they're easily enough dismissed, as long as I avoid the temptation to respond in kind.

The thing I occasionally want to scream over there is, "THEN VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLARS!" "Thank you for sharing your opinion on PvP/TLC/DKP/ABCs&123s, now either try the game or don't, but release yourself from the naive delusion that a game not written to your specifications can't succeed." Then I would hit them with a pie.

Aen
12-23-2005, 11:13 AM
The boards have been sucking big time lately. I agree the beta announcements have made it a LOT worse lately. I just hate that everyone speculates that its going to be like EQ and how it should be more like EQ. and if you do not have the same opinions that it should be like EQ you get flamed.

I heard something about once Vanguard goes live the general forums are gone and only tech support will be done from the forums.

I can not wait for that and hopefully this place doesnt turn like the current forums are.

Azzikai
12-23-2005, 12:34 PM
Lots of new people find the forum all the time. I still post observations about what did or didn't work in a certain game, as they occur to me. It is a message board. Take away those posts and there's nothing left except treatises on pie.
The problem with those topics is by saying "A New Perspective On..." (a title that I noticed quite a bit in November for some reason), you are admitting that the topic is already there and being discussed. That is what irritates me. So many people starting topics that are already being talked about still on the front page. The reason for the new threads? More often than not it isn't because they missed the ongoing discussion but want to make sure that their "completely new and never before seen opinion" is not missed.

It's right up there with the first time posts consisting of "WoW is lame, am i right LOLOLOLOLOL" sort of things. People are coming into that community with the mindset that they have to make a huge splash and show that they, too, are hardcore and don't want any of that pansy "other" game in their Vanguard. Perhaps I've just been reading those boards for too long but it feels like it is pretty much a place for people to talk about how uber they are by hating SOE, WoW and any game that doesn't make you walk uphill in the snow both ways.

Mack Bolan
12-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Today there is a great discussion about permadeath servers. Once in a while you will get a great discussion like this.

Razorwire
12-23-2005, 04:02 PM
Perma-death in MMO just doesn't make sence. Half the fun is daring to try new things and a "ironman" server will kill the sense of adventure. Oh no I only have 20 lives left no way am I pulling for the raid. Really ask yourself how often the MA or the pull team die and then ask if you will have those on a perma death server.

Azzikai
12-24-2005, 08:17 AM
It would work if the focus of the game was more role-playing and less hack n' slash. Not that I would go for that sort of thing, I'm more of a mindless slaughtering type of person, but I could see it working.

There was/is a MUD that I played years ago that was perma-death. Was set in the AD&D Dark Sun world so it wasn't exactly easy to not die and I went through a fair few characters before I realized I had to change my playstyle. There's just a whole new mindset one has to have to deal with perma-death, not to mention a new reward system. When all that you have accumulated can be gone in one instance of human stupidity, item accquistion just wouldn't be that important.

Ieranii
12-29-2005, 05:05 PM
Perma-death in MMO just doesn't make sence. Half the fun is daring to try new things and a "ironman" server will kill the sense of adventure. Oh no I only have 20 lives left no way am I pulling for the raid. Really ask yourself how often the MA or the pull team die and then ask if you will have those on a perma death server.


I can see that point. Perma death would suck for raiding. I would still be willing to give it a whirl on a special rules server though.

I could see a much longer leveling curve with perma death. People would take fewer chances. It could be interesting though.

Havelock
12-29-2005, 05:14 PM
I probably wouldn't play on it, but I'd be interested in seeing how a permadeaths server worked out. The hardcore servers in Diablo II were definitely special and added a lot to the game for a number of players.

Ieranii
12-31-2005, 05:59 PM
You know, I read this thread and I went over to the vanguard forums and decided to wade through a few areas. In the process I discovered a beautiful thing.

The diplomacy forums are relatively quiet. The people who are screaming for beta don't go there. There are no fluffy last-word threads, no one is talking about adjusting their package (if you 've been in the off topic forums you know what I mean!).

Since diplomacy is the sphere we know the least about there are still a good number of people posting ideas and yes, speculating on how it will all work. It's a nice place to visit. You folks ought to come have a look sometime. :)

xi0nic
01-04-2006, 12:01 PM
I've been rather disappointed with the VG Boards as well. I've only been a member there for about 6 months, and in that time, there has been such a huge influx of new players that the forum has just been overwhelmed with useless posts.

It's very unfortunate that SWG and EQII are both losing so many customers, and flooding the Vanguard forums... but we should try and stay positive.

Once all the new people get flamed for asking the same old questions and learn to read the old posts first, we might get back to business of being fanbois/girls =p

Scrawl
01-05-2006, 12:22 PM
I have over 400 posts on that forum and I have to agree that over the past few months the atmosphere there has gone straight down the toilet. I read only *very* select threads there. I completely ignore threads started by certain posters. It's not worth it most of the time.

However, if I'm feeling frisky and the little punks give me attitude I'll give it right back to them.

Skarlath
01-06-2006, 06:58 PM
I passed the monumental 2k posts mark the other day .. didn't bother making a thing of it. That sort of thing gets the newbies angry :( Elitism is something that kept the old community going. :)

Sadly the last 500 posts went downhill in quality. Though I do feel the first 1500 were generally good posts. I made some good contributions over the months. :)

Spirit
01-06-2006, 09:56 PM
Elitism is something that kept the old community going. :)

Elitism is a goal. You are an achiever if you are an elitist. You adhere to high standards. Not everyone makes the grade.

I'm an elitist and proud of it too. Darned right I am! :cool:

Scrawl
01-06-2006, 09:59 PM
"Elitism is a goal. You are an achiever if you are an elitist. You adhere to high standards. Not everyone makes the grade.

I'm an elitist and proud of it too. Darned right I am!"

Amen to that.

Eclipse
01-07-2006, 06:08 PM
I used to have a 22 post per-day count on the VG boards.
Then I found my place here, and found myself posting a lot less there. Mainly because I used to flame a lot, and make a lot of assumptions and guesses about what release would be. Get into heated debates about people's complaints...so when I started writing articles here instead, I stopped doing that as much.

I'm only at 1559 posts now, with a mere 10 posts per-day :p
I very much doubt I'l hit 2000 before they take the site down, but that's ok. I'd much rather post my opinions here at SV. :D

-Eclipse

Havelock
01-07-2006, 08:25 PM
I used to have a 22 post per-day count on the VG boards.

Yeah, I had an obscenely high posts-per-day rate for awhile. I think even now that I've cooled down it's still pretty high as a result of those days.

aeiouy
01-09-2006, 01:49 PM
The progression of public official forums like that was and is inevitable.

That is why I think the dispersion after release will be interesting to see. I think the problem with one big mass community is you have a constant clashing of ideals, desires, and focus. When you split that up into various communities, people can find the one with the sensibilities that most suite them.

By having all these different groups mixed together you end up with a constant state of conflict and strife. It is impossible to get any kind of consensus building accomplished and everyone gets scratched up. No matter what you think a game should be, and no matter how many others share your perspective, when you go to official forums you will find one or more people diametrically opposed to you. It is just the way things go.

If you think things are bad now, wait until people actually have played the game. The vitrol will explode by about 100-fold. Cap that all off with people whose only purpose is to get noticed by Developers and it becomes a huge mess.

I do not spend as much time browsing through the Official forums as I did in the past for a multitude of reasons. Have a lot on my plate now, lots of discussions are re-hashes, lots of topics I simply no longer get involved with discussions about (raid vs casual, pvp etc etc) and partly the overall tone.

Really nothing that I know of can be done to change it either. Some companies have tried well-armed and draconian moderating policies, but that does not fix things. Others have just let things go on their own. None of them really do anything to make official MMORPG forums a place you want to hang out.

samnas_tam
01-09-2006, 03:25 PM
Off Topic related to Severoth's signature quote in this thread. The quote about democracy:

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."- Thomas Jefferson

I cannot find a source anywhere for that quote (been looking awhile). Since you have a couple of his quotes there figured you might have more info.

The quote intersts me a lot because I see it often in people's signatures, but in many ways is very unlike anything you would expect Jefferson to have said. He was one of the biggest supporters of Democracy even though he did have fears about it. My guess is the quote was in the context of comparing a pure democracy to a Republic. Just a guess since in the US a simple majority is unable to take away the rights of the minority (Constitutional rights that is).

Anyway sorry its off-topic for the thread just something that has been bugging me a long time I am looking for a source of that quote. Yes I am wierd I know.

Severoth
01-12-2006, 11:39 PM
Samnas_tam, in order to not hijack this thread any further, I've moved my response to your post to a new thread in the "/OOC" forum. Check it out: Concerning my sig quote... (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20573#post20573)

Varguk
01-25-2006, 10:22 AM
I have to agree there has been an increase in personal attacks, but like someone said it is a byproduct of more and more people coming to the boards. Another thing other than personal attacks I see going on is the elite attitude gamers seem to have nowadays as if there online accomplishments gives them some sort rl goldstar to be a ass (excuse my french) to new or noobies as they are sometimes refered to. I mean it's a funny thing when you have to post a game resume to join guilds, and i'm speaking on the guilds that require people to have played some mmo in the past to join not the ones who ask just to get a feel for experience. Only reason I post there now is to comment on things I really want to see turn out well like pvp, and some guild advertising.

Droigan
01-29-2006, 07:33 PM
As of today and this thread, http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37568
I think the Vanguard forums have gone beyond redemption.

People calling for nerfs before they have seen anything. Taking things out of context.

It's starting to become a dupe of the WoW boards. Sad.

Skarlath
01-29-2006, 07:48 PM
/sigh

Maybe we should remove links to SV from our OVF signatures so that the idiots can't find their way here. :p

Havelock
01-29-2006, 07:50 PM
The OVF really sucks these days, at least the gameplay-oriented parts of it. Too many people with way more mouth than brain. It's really too bad for new people discovering the game and the boards, because they're not getting to experience the awesome community that noobs a few months ago saw there.

synjiin
01-30-2006, 09:54 AM
I agree with you 100% "Hav" I all but hate checking that board now adays for information.

xi0nic
01-30-2006, 10:27 AM
/sigh

Maybe we should remove links to SV from our OVF signatures so that the idiots can't find their way here. :p

Might not be a bad idea... =p

Dreamer
01-30-2006, 02:04 PM
helo everyone

i used to post gud but now i cant ne more.

i went to a dr. to see wtf was wrung wit me. he was like, “it culd bee to things. u ether have a worm eating ur brain or you u hav a overexposure(sp?) to teh Vanguard(sp?) forums”

so i said obviously(sp?) it wuz teh forums, cause i dont feel no worm eating in my brain. lololol

he said thaaat figures hes seen lotz of this latly

so hear i am recovering(sp?) frum teh Vanguard(sp?) forums.


Dreamer


Edit: i marked teh words i dont think i speled correctly(sp?)

Varguk
01-31-2006, 02:57 AM
As of today and this thread, http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37568
I think the Vanguard forums have gone beyond redemption.

People calling for nerfs before they have seen anything. Taking things out of context.

It's starting to become a dupe of the WoW boards. Sad.

I scratched my head when I read this thread. :rolleyes:

Miggy
01-31-2006, 05:08 AM
Does anyone mind if I hide over here? The OVF folk are scaring me now with their flame-fests :)

xi0nic
01-31-2006, 12:32 PM
Does anyone mind if I hide over here? The OVF folk are scaring me now with their flame-fests :)

Feel free to join us... but make sure the flamers don't follow you! :)

Skarlath
01-31-2006, 12:38 PM
Feel free to join us... but make sure the flamers don't follow you! :)

Hehe, for some reason that gave me the mental image of fantasy heroes walking backwards through snow using a leafy branch to sweep the snow over their footprints! :p

Xyrrus
01-31-2006, 02:38 PM
/sigh

Maybe we should remove links to SV from our OVF signatures so that the idiots can't find their way here. :p

OK jumping in to this thread late, but as most of you know eventually the official forums will close, leave sites like Silky Venom to fill in the gap. Because its obviously in my best interest to have the best discussions about vanguard going on in these forums, I'd like to ask you guys: What would make the SV boards more attractive to you guys?

I'm thinking:
- Levels of moderation (FOH like, glip-like)
- Types of forums (Lots of them, like race specific, etc or very few "discuss all vanguard stuff here")
- Special features (like fozzik's hardware forum)
- General atmosphere (PG, PG-13, R, NC-17?)

-Xy

Foxeye
01-31-2006, 02:50 PM
I think that glip-level moderation would be splendid. He's had a fairly deft hand with giving folks a chance to police themselves, but stepping in when necessary.

Beyond that...I think you are already doing what you can by having useful/interesting news updates and having intelligent people on your staff. Personally I find intelligent, thoughtful people to be the #1 thing that draws me to a board. And lack of flashing ads. That helps. :D

I wouldn't bother trying to have race or class specific boards. Let those communities develop on their own elsewhere (*fondly remembers the ranger's glade*) and stick to being a general V:SoH site, imho.

Loampounder
02-01-2006, 12:26 PM
Interestingly enough, I think Fanguard killed it all for me. I did not go but watched as the boards fell apart over two or three released "facts" (aka rumors that came out first). MOst of the decent people are gone. The spammer club is more and more obvious. There is like twelve people ruining the game play board by spamming "hardcore" stuff like 20% deathpenalty and such. I guess it's devtracker for me until the game goes out.

And then there is the beta3 giveaway. Great, reward those who go to fanguard but ignore people who spent years contributing to the forums. They refuse to admit that they owe anyone anything and emphasize that they want a wide selection based on their criteria, except in the case of people who go to their events.

Oloh
02-01-2006, 01:45 PM
Loampounder,

Dont get too jaded with the whole forum thing. No commerical company can be strict with public forums. After all, everyone there is a potential customer. One thing you can be certain of, is that this community, Silky Venom, will not go that way. I give you my promise that we will have good, solid conversation the entire life of Vanguard.

Why? Because we have more tools available. We already set up the forums in a manner that spammers and general troublemakers can be isolated in one part of the site. They can still be heard, but they will be heard with others of their type, and in a manner that can be easilly ignored.

Unlike other forums, posting here is a privlidge, and we will remove it if anyone abuses it. So, dont get too jaded by the official forums.

Miggy
02-01-2006, 01:55 PM
To be honest I get a certain level of satisfaction reading the intensity of the small group of heavy spammers that have started these flame wars this week. The satisfaction comes from the fact that I had already taken a step back and was keeping my eye on the community (such as over here at Silky Venom) which is how I noticed that none of these argumentative types seem to have spotted a lot of the information that I consider to be more important than what they are arguing about. Silky Venom's write-up in particular raised a lot of points that I thought were excitingly innovative, but saw no mention of on the OVF amidst the arguments.

So not getting drawn into arguments over there these past few days has allowed me to find out some useful information that they apparently did not.

Loampounder
02-01-2006, 05:46 PM
Olah, I don't think "jaded" is the right word; "weary" has the same meaning without a negative connotation. And, I basically meant the OVF, not all forums. I know it's a commercial forum, and I don't hold anything against them for that, but the community there has "developed" beyond what I can participate in. I joined Silky Venom specifically for the community, and I am sure it will do well.

I respect the effectiveness of your instruments of torture, but I think Silky will do well (mainly because of the awesome work you guys have put into it, but also) because it is not an "official" site. If people do not respond to spammers, they would have no reason to stay here. On the OVF, they stay to raise a stink on an official site with a captive audience. In fact, opposition to them may be the reason why they would stay here (to challenge your tools).

Been thinking about Xyrrus's question and I will post more when I am less weary.

Oloh
02-03-2006, 02:12 AM
Olah, I don't...

-1 cool point for calling me a girls name!

Loampounder
02-03-2006, 10:20 AM
LOL, sorry. I knew an Olah from graduate school, and I guess that name is stamped on my brain. He is not a she. He is a Nobel laureate. No disrespect intended (to either one of you two).

Garmr
02-03-2006, 11:54 AM
Well Ive just come from the official boards and have come to the conclusion, Im done over there. The signal to noise ration has reached a fevered pitch and while not as bad as the WoW forums, it's getting there. I want to leave while I still have some good memories from the past 2 years there heh.

So here I am, will make the SV forums my official unofficial forums now.

Oh yeah, different name...I was/am Viss Dalkyr on the official boards.

Labyrrinth
02-03-2006, 12:23 PM
YAY and Welcome Viss :) :)

Kullall
02-03-2006, 12:56 PM
And then there is the beta3 giveaway. Great, reward those who go to fanguard but ignore people who spent years contributing to the forums. They refuse to admit that they owe anyone anything and emphasize that they want a wide selection based on their criteria, except in the case of people who go to their events.Well, I really do believe, in my heart of hearts, these beta accounts were given out just to be nice and say, "thank you for wasting a weekend and hundreds of dollars to come and support us in designing this game you may or may not end up liking." They didn't have to do it, but they probably figured that 300 more betas in phase three really is not going to be that big of a deal. Which it isn't. I think it was just a nice gesture on their part, nothing more, nothing less. And yes it sucks to be skipped over for betas, but you have to understand the sheer amount of applications they must receive. It's probably very easy (and unintentional) to overlook long time users. I'm sure they also have a short list of people from the inception of the idea of a beta that they have worked with before who they know they can count on for reliable feedback and bug reporting. Anyways... don't take it so hard, it's not personal. I never saw what the big deal about beta was anyhow. I'd rather play and explore a more refined product myself.

Loampounder
02-03-2006, 01:12 PM
Well, I really do believe, in my heart of hearts, these beta accounts were given out just to be nice and say, "thank you for wasting a weekend and hundreds of dollars to come and support us in designing this game you may or may not end up liking." They didn't have to do it, but they probably figured that 300 more betas in phase three really is not going to be that big of a deal.
(Purposely keeping this short) I understand, just thinking it would be nicer, easier and just as trivial to "thank" the 220 senior members who have been around since 2003, especially considering the appreciation they have expressed to the community over the years. They are obviously not afraid to thank people, so why intentionally avoid long-time followers?

aelysa
02-06-2006, 05:46 PM
I feel like the boards today have hit a brand new low. Now, I am a guilty party as I also write nonsensical crap, but really, what guild found out about Vanguard today and decided to post threads like "Looking for an all girl guild to join," and "I am looking for that special someone" and the thread ":)"

Who are these people?! How can I kill them?

shiver
02-06-2006, 06:42 PM
I am really not sure why I go to those boards. I don't want to play so many of the people who post there. It is turning me off the game. I need to start a just say 'flee' campaign when it comes to those boards.

Skarlath
02-06-2006, 07:10 PM
We are such whiners.:p Here I go again...

I have never been a real regular to any forum prior to Vanguard. When I visited a forum with established members, inside jokes and colossal post counts my reaction was along the lines of :confused:. I myself was probably guilty of being one of those irregulars who condemn those to whom the forums are a second home.

I came across Vanguard over a year ago, and since have tried to be very accurate. I think I even made it onto the first page of post counts for a while. :D I've said it before and I'll say it again, I loved our community.

But now I continuously see a new breed of posters who insult the veterans. Who scorn the jokes about post counts, or pies. Sure there was always spam, but it was our spam. These new posters act as if they are the real veterans of the community, maybe even mention how they liked the old community, but it is they who have helped to ruin what we had. The ones who post as though they rise above the masses.

For months we predicted it, and watched it happen. But I wasn't expecting it to happen like this. I read select threads in the offtopic these days. Ones posted by those who I know always have something to say. I still love Vanguard, but the time when my only visits to the OVF are to scoop news are fast approaching.

How many jokes did we make about liking WoW because it would keep the kiddies away? Well we should never have had such hope... we have our own brand of morons.

Breogan
02-06-2006, 07:36 PM
One of the problems I see with the OVF is that people came there under the impression that the devs would read and listen to every of their demands, because the game had that fame, but they have to realize that phase is over since most of the defining features of the game are already finished or practically set on stone. Nevertheless the forums have become a cacophony of people starting a lot of threads saying the very same just so the devs happen to see what they say at the first post of the thread.

Just an example: people starting the same day on several subforums a dozen of threads about exp vs loss, instead of consolidating the discussion on just one.

Maybe we should remove links to SV from our OVF signatures so that the idiots can't find their way here. :p
:twisted: Too late! I'm already here :p *kidding*

What would make the SV boards more attractive to you guys?
Silky Venom is one of the most widely known affiliates and a lot of people are going to come here. Once the OVF close, I'd love to see a strict moderator team to prevent these people from ruining the boards. The community feeling here is great, discussions are nicely conducted and you don't see people insulting each other to "win teh internet" competition.

Content-wise, I'd simply follow the KISS Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle) ;).
You have everything nicely covered with the current sections, and adding class/race subforums would add excessive clutter and be prone to offtopics. Adding subforums for each sphere would be more than enough, in my humble opinion.

Severoth
02-06-2006, 09:14 PM
And now we see the effects of World of Warcraft. WoW has opened the flood gates to the MMORPG community. The hordes of short-attention-spanned, 12-year-old, trigger-happy battle.net kids from Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and Starcraft have finally been introduced to MMORPG's. Games like EQ were too slow-paced for their attention deficit. But WoW allowed them to solo to 60 in under a month's time. They finally found a MMORPG that they can deal with. And now that they are tired of WoW, they are looking for other MMORPG games. And now we see the spill-over of forum trolls onto the Vanguard boards.

Why do I speclated this? Well, compare the forum boards of games like EQ (back in the day) and EVE-online to the boards of WoW. Though both communities have their immature forum trolls, WoW was so filled with them that you couldn't get a legitimate post in edge-wise. It's probably because games like EQ and EVE-online are too "slow-paced" to hold these battle.net kiddies' attention for too long. *Shrug*

Raijyn
02-06-2006, 11:51 PM
Well, its always bound to happen. The more hype a game receaves, the more immaturity they will accumulate. But, thats where fansites come into play. Silky Venom doesnt need to allow these types of people in the forums, etc. They can easily just ban them if they disobey their rules without Sigil being directly affected. So Im all for draconic rules and policies, its the only way this place will remain mature.

Darydale
02-07-2006, 01:52 PM
What is even worse than immature, rude players on the boards, is those same people in game. I am still hoping, however, that Vanguard's community will add to our gaming experience. Sometimes the people you encounter make the experience more than anything else. I also hope that Silky Venom will continue to be a place for good discussion (and not turn into the OVF).

Skarlath
02-07-2006, 02:17 PM
We don't want to smother our boards in heavy-handed rules and moderation - the Volcano will hopefully work well for those either want to post crap, or those who break rules on the other forums to the extent that the volcano is the only place they are good enough for.

I am sure we will have a number of annoyingly vocal posters who don't particularly break the rules but do degrade the community. A number of you now have mentioned that reasonably heavy moderation is something you would glad to see - perhaps a way to allow this would be to have a forum for sensible discussion. Those who are abusive, rude, destroy discussions, fail to post with etiquette, generally those who commit any act that would degrade the decent discussion, would be shoved out of the section. Posts that break that individual forum's strict rules deleted, certainly, and perhaps reoffenders barred from that forum.

We don't really want to clamp down on our forums - if moderation is too heavy then the community will struggle to develop and grow, for better or for worse. Just look at SWG's forums - the moderators for SOE deleted posts that they felt were the slightest bit out of line, and so the community developed elsewhere. We don't want you guys going elsewhere. :)

So considering that some of you voiced an bit of an interest in heavy moderation, is a particular section to the forum that is heavily watched and moderated something you would like to see?

Kullall
02-07-2006, 02:31 PM
My favorite posts are the threat posts of this nature:

"If they have this (insert GIS map, threatmeter, etc. here) in game I am not going to buy it."

Bye, don't let the threatmeter hit you on the way out...

Breogan
02-07-2006, 03:36 PM
So considering that some of you voiced an bit of an interest in heavy moderation, is a particular section to the forum that is heavily watched and moderated something you would like to see?
When I talk about strict moderation I don't mean it in a "nazi" style, but there's some times people are asking for a temporary ban to cool down a bit :).

I mean moderation as a way to keep subforums clean moving threads around to the forums they are supposed to belong: offtopics to the offtopic subforum, bad stuff to the volcano, computer advice to Fozzik's section, etc.

Skarlath
02-07-2006, 07:21 PM
That definitely sounds doable. :)

Whilst you're in the zone, what else would you like to be seeing? :)

Loampounder
02-07-2006, 07:42 PM
A lot of the "goodies" would depend on forum population. For example, server-specific folders would be nice but underutilized if there was a low population. I am not sure how to advise, but I like folders for class types (not specific classes) and shards.

I love the news folder and how it is administered (read only, separated, etc.) It's a good management of information. I would also be nice to get stickies to stand out/ stand up more. One thing that OVF does horriblely wrong is stickies - information needs to be stickied more and organized to we would not have to keep referencing and citing old developer quotes. "Reference" is clearly labeled at the top of the website, but some people need more assistance.

Moderation should not be heavy-handed, but steady and sure. Kind of like the responses to avatars - "no, this is the way it is, now deal." It's clear and we know where we stand. Glip has a good way with things, but don't warn more than once, if even than, to close a thread. Posters know the limits; don't let us bend them.

I am not sure if a vent folder with light moderation is useful. I tend not to think so, as we normally would not let garbage build up in our houses. Perhaps the right stance is that this forum is for the game and non-kosher venters can go to other forums.

Lord_Vyper
02-08-2006, 12:14 AM
I am not sure if a vent folder with light moderation is useful. I tend not to think so, as we normally would not let garbage build up in our houses. Perhaps the right stance is that this forum is for the game and non-kosher venters can go to other forums.

From my experiences, having a designated venting area helps in a number of ways.
Keeps the other folders more friendly.
Allows one-stop conflict resolution. If you've got a problem with a SV poster, why have to go to, say, FoH's forum to vent about it?
Venting about VG in general, or specific issues, should be encouraged. Feedback about the game is good, and sometimes you just really need to let loose with something that's been bugging you.

I'll also /sign Loampounder's idea for archetype specific folders. Preferably with a sticky or 2 for reference to sites devoted to that archetype/classes within the archetype.

I'd also love to see granularity of moderator-ness. Like someone that's a respected forum member, that happens to play a tank, becoming moderator of the defensive tanks folder.

Loampounder
02-08-2006, 03:28 AM
Venting about VG in general, or specific issues, should be encouraged. Feedback about the game is good, and sometimes you just really need to let loose with something that's been bugging you.
But not sure of we really want that here. The problem (I have seen with vent folders) is that people view that it's an ok place to go to the extreme and an acceptable place to fight. Soon you have folder groupies with a rought mentality (you go to fight club to fight, right? oops) and you get spillage. Why encourage that anywhere in SV?

Lord_Vyper
02-08-2006, 03:53 AM
This is true. You can mitigate it though. Set up some clear ground rules (no personal attacks, no trolling, etc.), and a good moderator to give those that need it a timeout.

An example that illustrates my reasoning:
SV the guild is going to be a highend raiding guild. So are other guilds. With Vanguard's emphasis on raid level content not being instanced, it's nearly guranteed that SV and another guild will wind up in contention for some raid event or other. It's also fair to say that there will be guilds that delight in pursuing every underhanded tactic they can to lay claim to that raid. A vent folder is a ideal way to call that underhanded guild to task for their actions, and to let others know of that guilds behavior.

How many here have visited their server specific forums on EQ? Looking through them, how quickly/easily has it been to identify the best guild, the worst guild, and the most odd guild?

Kullall
02-08-2006, 09:50 AM
There are differences between guild sites and community sites. I'm not sure in either case though that server specific folders would be viable. Maybe leave that to OFV, and have a folder for whatever server SV will be on. Class areas are a really good idea in both cases, and for the guild side of things class leaders could moderate their own forums.

Skarlath
02-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Maybe leave that to OFV

Just an FYI: The Official Vanguard Forums will be closing at release - only a tech support sections will be left. Fansites are intended to take up the slack.

Spirit
02-08-2006, 02:20 PM
One thing to bear in mind: you want these boards to be a welcoming friendly place for Sigil to hang out. I've seen previous mmorpg fansites have very loose moderation and when you allow that, you will get flames. That's an absolute. The only time you'll see a SOE employee visit a loose moderation fan site is to advertise an expansion -- and that's been that way for many years, not just since they relaunched their own boards.

Brad's got a thick skin : he's had everything that could be said to him said to him. But I don't really think it fair if he was to come here then get a hostile reception because of a recent bug or nerf. Brad might not get scared off, but what of the rest of the Sigil team? I know I wouldn't come back to a site if I got flamed 20 times. Not saying any of you guys would be disrespectful or do that: but SV will get looooads more visitors leading up to, and especially post release. Freedom of speech is cool and all, but if it threatens the relationship you have with Sigil, uh uh. Firm but fair -- constructive critisism should be welcomed, but if it's just the angsty whinings of a beetle-chewing half wit, clip em.

Skarlath
02-08-2006, 05:16 PM
Spirit, I just have to add that I love the caption on the end of your signature! :p

smooth1
02-08-2006, 05:41 PM
Hi all. I am so glad to see some of my favorite posters have moved here. I think I have found a new home. I can not take the OVF any longer.... So if ya'll will have me I would be glad to park it here.

If these boards get out of control like they have at the OVF there are some opptions short of sending the locals over to their houses. As someone touched on making many different areas based on race class and so on. If there is a obvious "bad eliment" posting flames and general stupidity could a moderator not lock him out of some areas? Perhaps only grant access to the equivalent of the volcano, or just revoke all posting privlages all together. Make them a read only account.

Anyways I look forward to these forums and so on and so forth.

Skarlath
02-08-2006, 06:01 PM
We are very glad to have you, Smooth.

As for the Volcano, that is precisely our plan. If a member attempts to indulge entirely in flame posts, then they will be barred from all but the Volcano and left to burn. :twisted:

Spirit
02-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Spirit, I just have to add that I love the caption on the end of your signature! :p

Hehe, thanks mate! Kerl is as dumb as a brick. He probably thinks Diplomacy is a small town in Qalia.

Darydale
02-09-2006, 10:21 PM
He probably thinks Diplomacy is a small town in Qalia.

hahaha

moonglum
02-10-2006, 08:38 PM
I think the worst it yet to come for the VSOH forum board, because they haven't any really started to advertise the game. A flood gate of people and players will probably invade after they hear about the game. I honestly hope Im in beta or get in it near the end just before launch.

Magna
02-11-2006, 04:49 PM
Hello everyone. :) I've lurked on this site for way too long & it was time for me to post today. Such a breath of fresh air after being on "those other forums".

When Sigil closes down their forums I'm concerned about server forums. Most games host those & they're a great place to build community & share game information as well as forming guilds, finding crafters that you need, etc. Class forums can be taken care of by specialized sites like the Druids Grove & the Safehouse - but I've never seen server forums work out the same way.

So if I were to suggest any specialized forums here then server forums would be it. Each server tends to develop its own "flavor" & feels more like a home when there's a common forum.

Skarlath
02-11-2006, 06:12 PM
Glad to have you, Magna. And thanks for the feedback. :)

Perhaps breaking away from forums alone, what else do you guys want to see here, post-release?

Spirit
02-11-2006, 07:51 PM
Perhaps breaking away from forums alone, what else do you guys want to see here, post-release?

I'd love to see dev interviews, "A Day In The Life Of" features, a "the making of vanguard" series, polls, fan reviews of the game, The Telon Observer (mocked up newspaper section that chronicles happenings in Telon in an in-character format). How about offering prizes for fan art/fan fiction events -- maybe you SV guys could get your heads together with Sigil and come up with 'fat lewts' for the winners (voted for by the SV community) -- signed posters, t-shirts, Glip-endorsed boxer shorts.

Silky Venom will be a general VG site, so as you won't specialise in one particular part of Vanguard, you need to offer something the other sites don't. I'd really work that friendship you guys have with Sigil -- bug them, hassle them, annoy them more than any other Affiliate into giving you leet access. The average gamer doesn't care for reading threads about a Warrior 2.8% dps nerf -- but if you're offering a cool insight into how the game was made, or leet prizes, you just might appeal to that infamous mmo player that supposedly never reads forums, because they are too boring.

It would be awesome indeed if the forums here only made up a small fraction of this website -- although admittedly you guys seem to be going in the right direction with regards to that anyway.