Old school server thread

[Fozzik]

It's kind of getting depressing over on the Rift forums as I see how the community has changed in just the few weeks since E3.

Please head over and read this thread, and post if you feel like posting. I know there are enough old-school players looking for a game that a server like this could be successful, I just think maybe a lot of them have already written off Rift. :(

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?1313-Why-not-an-OFFICIAL-old-school-server

[Vanguard2112]

There is only one official server in existence now that caters to old school players and style, and that Al'kabor the EQ macintosh server.

Dunno if that will change going into the future. Everything else is moving onward with WoW as its launching point , farther and farther from what UO/EQ use to be.

I'm tired of being frusterated, but that is the truth. Single player and EQmac for me till the pendulum swings back. (if it ever does)

[Fozzik]

I believe that all it would take to start things swinging back would be one legit experiment. One company to provide a game or a server, really honestly make a good game, and see what happens. I'm willing to bet that an "old school" server available for a game like Rift would end up being the most popular server, and over time they'd have to expand to multiple servers.

Not only because there would be a dedicated long-term community of people who haven't had a game to play for a long time, but also because others would become curious and end up finding the experience more rewarding and engaging. On top of that, once it had a healthy population it would begin to have its own gravity...people who would normally say they would never get anywhere near such a server would start to get drawn in because of their competitive nature, their friends or relatives, or just because "everybody's doing it".

More than almost anything else, the mature and helpful community that would likely form and stick around a server like that will draw in a lot of folks who don't believe they would ever enjoy the ruleset.

The question remains the same...will any developer have the guts to give it an honest try?

[rabb1t]

The question remains the same...will any developer have the guts to give it an honest try?

I could see them enabling a 'hard mode' sooner than going all out with a server like you want. Something like a flag you flip on character creation that does something like 'decreases all player damage and healing by 10%, increases all incoming damage by 10%, decreases experience gains by 40%'. (Though this would cause imbalance if you had mixed regular mode and hard mode players in a single group.)

With 'hard mode' becoming increasingly popular in Diablo like games I don't think it would be too long before a MMOG developer may consider it.

I stopped reading the thread over there because it started to asplode and is going way too fast for me to keep up with.

[Fozzik]

Yeah, a few trolls sort of broke the thread for a lot of pages, but it's actually back on track pretty well now. Some good discussion and at least it seems the people who just want to be negative have given it a rest.

[Amsra]

Have to agree with you Fozz, I think if a dev/publisher would just offer it to the market, an "Old School" server or game could grab a decent market share. Certainly make money anyway :)

They just seem so afraid of deviating from the WoW model these days.....

Been watching Rift and still hopeful for it but they have already changed things that I'd liked :)

[Loampounder]

The question remains the same...will any developer have the guts to give it an honest try?

Sadly, with a new game the company's first roll of the dice is the launch itself - going with all gusto to make a mass-market game. With older games that try to get back their old feeling on a server, the community has moved on. It's sort of a catch-22. If a smaller company started with this mentality, we may have a shot (I think most of us thought that company was Sigil) but I don't see a new company with decent start-up cash is going to theoretical market (at least to marketer suits).

[Fozzik]

I don't know. If financial suits couldn't ever read the signs any better than that (if money only ever went to already existing markets), we wouldn't have had any of the really groundbreaking or market-defining products. Markets change constantly, and it really just takes a reasonable amount of understanding of the genre to see that there's an untapped market. It takes only a slightly ambitious mind to believe that with the right product, that loyal and long-term untapped market could be grown with an influx of customers from existing markets.

I think it's just a matter of the right person giving the right pitch to the money men (Brad was able to sell Microsoft on his original Vision, so it CAN happen). Either that, or somebody having the right ideas and a bunch of their own money. I'm willing to accept that it's a long shot, but I still have hope.

An experiment like the old school server idea would make the pitch a lot easier, I believe. If a server like that were highly successful, it's more likely that SOMEBODY would finally take the hint.

[rabb1t]

Either that, or somebody having the right ideas and a bunch of their own money.

Even that doesn't always work. See: Tabula Rasa. :o

[Fozzik]

Well, I would argue he didn't have the right ideas.

Although I do think Tabula Rasa brought some neat things to the table, and was fun for a short time. It just didn't have any of the elements that make for a long-lasting or meaningful MMO experience. In a way, they fell victim to the same conventional wisdom in the genre that is tripping up so many developers.

[VoiceOfReason]

Fozzik said: "It's kind of getting depressing over on the Rift forums as I see how the community has changed in just the few weeks since E3."

Too right. It's worse than depressing - some of those guys are so rabidly wowistic and pvpistic (hey if I can make up the first word why not the next) that it makes me want to punch them when they flame all over well reasoned, carefully thought out posts. Fozziks posts have been very strong. I have put out a few decent ones I think as well, but they are resonating less and less with the remaining community on the boards there.

At this point, my hopes for Telara have diminished so much that I doubt I am even going to buy it. Very sad.

[Fozzik]

I'm still going to try it... either in beta or at release. Partly because I think it has some potential and we don't know enough yet to be sure about which direction Trion is going to take with things, but also partly because there's really nothing else to play. :(

I've heard a lot of folks talk about how there's so much more choice in the genre now than there was in EQ's heyday. I would definitely disagree. I think there's actually LESS choice now. A lot more games, maybe...but there's so much similarity in the underlying philosophies that the differences in graphics, etc don't really matter. You have to qualify the statement... IF you're a player who enjoys casual solo-oriented gaming, there's lots of choices in the modern genre.

I'm hoping that one of these upcoming games (copernicus, rift, secret world, whatever) will try to at least provide SOMETHING for players like me...if for no other reason than just to provide a little choice that is currently so lacking, and maybe gain some more subscriptions they wouldn't otherwise tap.

I have to hope. I can't think of another hobby to take gaming's place right now. Maybe I'll buy a boat and work on it all the time. :mad:

[rabb1t]

I highly doubt Secret World will be what you are looking for. It's an FPSMMOG, kind of like what Hellgate: London could have been if it did things right.

Secret World gameplay trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IxoXLysITg)

[Fozzik]

I know some about the game. I'm willing to try anything at this point... it's possible something might surprise me.

There was actually a time long, long ago when a friend asked me to try out this new kind of RPG called EQ... and I told him no way, I'm not into RPGs on the computer!

Good thing I went ahead and tried it. :D

[Hatto]

Good thing I went ahead and tried it. :D
Funny, I totally regret that I ever decided to stop playing MUD and trying out that outlandish graphical game :)

I am also surprised that a company these days actually bothers to listen to the so called community. It doesn't bode well for this game.

[Fozzik]

I don't think we've seen any evidence at all that they are going to be influenced by the forum community. They are listening, but that doesn't mean they are actually HEARING...if you know what I mean. ;)

[perfect]

...I'm hoping that one of these upcoming games (copernicus, rift, secret world, whatever)....

FFXIV.

[Fozzik]

I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a game for me...but I'll check it out. :)

[rabb1t]

Um... isn't FFXiv going with no-levels? Been a while since I followed it due to lack of news.

[Nepenthia]

Funny, I totally regret that I ever decided to stop playing MUD and trying out that outlandish graphical game :)

I am also surprised that a company these days actually bothers to listen to the so called community. It doesn't bode well for this game.

One of the SV members in Vanguard is actually playing a mud these days and having a really good time. Can't remember the name of it but ... maybe muds are like radios when TV came along? Everyone was sure that radio would die but it went on to keep its own niche. Maybe some muds will too?

[Nepenthia]

I have been kind of ignoring the "we gotta have" and "what if" posts on Rift for awhile. Quite a bit of repetition and some of the usual getting upset after not reading the information accurately kinds of posts are just not interesting.

One thing I have noticed ... instead of spending a lot of time on the forums, Trion has instead been much better about a steady stream of new information being provided week by week. Then, if a thread starts that isn't correct, someone will show up to put the thread back on the information that has been provided. Seems like a very good approach.

As for listening .... that's something we'll see how it works when beta happens I hope. It's when people are actually interacting with the game that they can ask the kinds of questions that can evoke improvement or change. We'll see how they do!

I've made up my mind though that whenever I get to play, I'm going to try to guard against preferring what I'm used to over having an open mind to different approaches to playing content. Heh, prolly won't be perfect on that but ... it's worth a try :)

Nep/Lovi

Fozzik said: "It's kind of getting depressing over on the Rift forums as I see how the community has changed in just the few weeks since E3."

Too right. It's worse than depressing - some of those guys are so rabidly wowistic and pvpistic (hey if I can make up the first word why not the next) that it makes me want to punch them when they flame all over well reasoned, carefully thought out posts. Fozziks posts have been very strong. I have put out a few decent ones I think as well, but they are resonating less and less with the remaining community on the boards there.

At this point, my hopes for Telara have diminished so much that I doubt I am even going to buy it. Very sad.

[Hatto]

Everyone was sure that radio would die but it went on to keep its own niche. Maybe some muds will too?
Some MUDs are still alive and kicking, like WoT, but it is not really easy to go back to pure text based gaming :)

[VoiceOfReason]

I'm still going to try it... either in beta or at release. Partly because I think it has some potential and we don't know enough yet to be sure about which direction Trion is going to take with things, but also partly because there's really nothing else to play. :(

I've heard a lot of folks talk about how there's so much more choice in the genre now than there was in EQ's heyday. I would definitely disagree. I think there's actually LESS choice now. A lot more games, maybe...but there's so much similarity in the underlying philosophies that the differences in graphics, etc don't really matter. You have to qualify the statement... IF you're a player who enjoys casual solo-oriented gaming, there's lots of choices in the modern genre.

I'm hoping that one of these upcoming games (copernicus, rift, secret world, whatever) will try to at least provide SOMETHING for players like me...if for no other reason than just to provide a little choice that is currently so lacking, and maybe gain some more subscriptions they wouldn't otherwise tap.

I have to hope. I can't think of another hobby to take gaming's place right now. Maybe I'll buy a boat and work on it all the time. :mad:


If I am burned out on SOD by then and haven't taken up Project1999 (both EQEmu), I still might give it a shot. The graphics are very good. I guess it woud be like WoW with better graphics. Since WoW's graphics were always one of the things I hated most about it, I suppose I might be able to get some enjoyment out of it.

However, things like popping into a zone and automagically receiving all quests related with the zone, and ridiculously large shoulder armor and the idea of two factions wound into a PVP story... it's gonna get me down.

My guess is I'll be playing Project1999 in a year.