Spiritual Successor to EQ?

[Fozzik]

A while back, as I learned more about Guild Wars 2, I started to notice some deep, philosophical navel-gazing type fundamental things about the game that seemed a bit familiar. After a lot of thought and a lot of typing, I think I've made a pretty good case (to myself, as well as everyone else) that Guild Wars 2 may be a dramatic step forward, because it gives a nod back to what originally made EQ great.

Tell me what you think...
Part 1 (http://www.thelastbastion.net/?p=153)
Part 2 (http://www.thelastbastion.net/?p=161)
Part 3 (http://www.thelastbastion.net/?p=170)
Part 4 (http://www.thelastbastion.net/?p=180)
Part 5 (http://www.thelastbastion.net/?p=188)

[Loampounder]

You as much as anyone knows that no game can be evaluated before release. Does Arenanet talk a good game? Sure, but that does not mean it is what they will release.

Your posts make a lot of good points, but they are more about you than about GW2. And I agree that a lot of the problems in MMORPGs today fall on the shoulders of EQ. Perhaps the real issue (to us hobbyists) is what possible lifestan we can get out of a MMORPG before it deviates from what we are looking for. For me, EQ was three years and Rift was two months. Your posts make a good point for saying that GW2 will likely start in the right mode and last an extended amount of time.

[Fozzik]

I agree that nobody can know for sure how they personally will like a game until they play it...but I would also point out that what we know about Guild Wars 2 isn't simply what ArenaNet is saying. The game has been shown multiple times and played by hundreds or thousands of convention-goers and press.

Most of the design choices and philosophy of development that I discuss in the articles are things that we know for a fact are in the game. ArenaNet has been somewhat unique in that regard...the depth of info that they release is due to the fact that they don't talk about things until they are in the game and working. Hopefully that means there will be much less over-promising than we typically see in MMORPGs during development.

Probably the main thing that we can't know for sure is how all those parts are going to work together...will the various systems and mechanics gel and create something that's more than the sum of its parts. I can't wait to find out.

I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on these games and what I do and don't enjoy....what I think does and doesn't work to create a truly great and memorable world. So... if I was a magic 8-ball, I would say that at the moment, when you look at GW2, all signs point to it being good.

[perfect]

Let me see if I can pull down a few specific examples out of the many…this is really a difficult concept to describe, while at the same time being so easy to see and feel when it’s done right. In early EQ, players had to learn things like languages in order to talk to some other races. They had to learn how to swim. There were many different paths to take, places to visit, and content to pit yourself against at any level. There were all kinds of things to learn and do that weren’t part of the primary leveling or crafting paths.

I feel that modern MMOs lack the feeling that your choices mattered and had real consequences (both good and bad). That's one of the great things about EQ: Your choices on a day to day basis changed the game for you.

In EQ, if you attacked the guards, the rest of the town would hate you. In 'modern' MMOs, you can't attack the guards.

In EQ, you could choose to go level in North Ro or Crushbone and that choice meant different loot and playstyle (in so far as needing different spells). In modern MMOs, you go Zone A to Zone B to Zone C or D but it doesn't matter if you choose C or D cause the loot and gameplay are the same.

So, Fozzik, your part 5 was posted 9 months ago. Still mostly feel that same way? What, if anything, has changed?

[Fozzik]

GW2 will definitely bring back that feeling of choices making a difference in terms of the personal story...It will be interesting to see how choices feel in terms of the dynamic events and character development. GW2 definitely offers a lot of freedom and doesn't lock players in, but they do provide plenty of ways to sort of push things one way or another in a persistent way in the open shared world.

Nothing's really changed in terms of how I feel about the game... I suppose we have some more information now than we did, but nothing's come along that would make me change my thinking. If anything, developer statements and more game play videos have only strengthened my belief that this game is going to be something I really enjoy.

At the heart of it, I think what we're seeing is finally a development team who was able to put WoW aside. Not ignore it, but put it in place and look past it to get a more complete perspective on the genre...which is something nobody else has been able to do in a long time. WoW has been blocking out the sun in terms of MMORPG development for more than half a decade, and I think we're finally reaching the first games that will potentially turn a corner and start the process of evolving the genre again.

It's absolutely vital that any developer put things in perspective and realize that WoW's success came in a pre-WoW genre, if that makes any sense. They need to take a more complete look at these games, rather than simply trying to distill the formula for success from a single successful game. GW2 isn't JUST a spiritual successor to EQ... I think it will be an evolution and re-imagining of many of the fundamentals that originally made the genre successful.

I've probably said all that before, so I'll stop repeating myself. Right now, I'm just waiting somewhat impatiently to see how the game actually plays...and whether or not I'm deceiving myself into false hope.

[mmorpeegee]

WoW's success came in a pre-WoW genre

That's said pretty awesomely.