Teh Beast! ™

[Lord_Vyper]

Mwahaha! It's upgrade time for me.
All the pieces seem to have come together for me, and it's time to build Teh Beast!™
Here we go:

Case: Thermaltake Armor (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811133154) (Already own) $148.99
PSU: PC Power & Cooling 1000 watt power supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817703003) $489.99
Motherboard: Abit AT8 (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813127230) (Already own) $112.00
Processor: Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546) $461.00
RAM: Crucial Ballistix PC4000 2GB kit (http://www.legitreviews.com/article.php?aid=262) (No longer sold) $350.00
Video Cards: Powercolor X1900XT (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814131005) (Already own) $534.00, and Powercolor X1900CF Edition (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814131002) $569.00
Hard Drives: 2x Raptor 150GB (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822136012) $345 each, 1 500GB Hitatchi Deskstar (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822147007) $395
Optical: Plextor SATA Dual Layer DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827131351) (Already own) $119.99

Total price: $3869.97 (not including tax or shipping)

I'll also be adding in liquid cooling.
Will add cooling pieces/prices soon.

[Fozzik]

I haven't heard or seen much about that Abit board...Abit hasn't been doing so hot lately (lots of issues with their recent Nvidia-based boards). What's the scoop on this one?

That's a powerful system, although I might argue a few choices with you from a price/performance standpoint, it certainly should perform well.

Does that power supply seriously handle two X1900 cards? Will your wall outlet handle two X1900 cards? :D

[Lord_Vyper]

I haven't heard or seen much about that Abit board...Abit hasn't been doing so hot lately (lots of issues with their recent Nvidia-based boards). What's the scoop on this one?

I got that board in late last week, and have been testing/torturing it ever since.

Some notable coolness:
ULI1575 southbridge. By all accounts, the best SB to pair up with the R480 NB, and it shows on this board. Fast SATA action, fast USB 2.0.

Onboard sound is run off a Realtek ALC882D chip, so it supports 8 channel, and Intel's HD audio standard. Best onboard audio I've heard since nVidia dropped SoundStorm.

Board layout has typically been a strong suit of Abit, and the AT8 is no exception. Lots of room around the socket to mount gigantic heatsinks. Power connectors are sitting on the board edge. IDE ports are all the right-angle kind.

POST LEDs. When the system is booting up, the LEDs will follow along, and if something hangs, you can look up the LED code in the user manual for a quick diagnosis.

SilentOTES. The Southbridge has its own passive cooler, while the northbridge is heatpiped to a large heatsink placed between the PS/2 and SPDIF connectors (with grillwork cut out in the I/O shield too.)
As with other solutions like SilentOTES, you're going to have to add a fan to keep that heatsink cooled if you use water/phase change.

Voltages: VCore goes up to 1.8v, Chipset goes to 2.0v, Ram goes to 3.2v (Would've liked this to hit 3.5-3.6 for SERIOUS overclocking), HT bus goes to 1.4v, chipset 1.8v.
Good range for most overclockers.

uGuru & Abit EQ provide monitoring for nearly every voltage, speed, and setting you can think of. I particularly like being able to tune fan speeds to temps (for fans connected to onboard fan buses). I used it with a fan mounted on the NB heatsink, and it kicked on, off, and ramped up and down depending on NB temps with no problems.

Cons:

Only 1, and it's half annoyance, half showstopper.
The current BIOS has a problem setting RAM timings to CAS2.
CAS1, or 2.5 all work fine, just not CAS2 /shrug. Talked with a Abit tech about it, and they're saying it's just a BIOS bug, not anything hardware-wise.

Did I mention I was writing up a review on this board? :p


Does that power supply seriously handle two X1900 cards? Will your wall outlet handle two X1900 cards? :D
Hehe, the 510 does supply up to 38amps on the +12v rail, so the 2 X1900s should be happy with it.
If not, I'll just be forced to snag the Ubah PSU (http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=TC1KW).
Hmm, now I'm hoping that the 510 won't handle it all.... lol

[Nubb]

Nice upgrade. Some high end toys there!

Curious, do you RAID your raptors?

Thanks,
Nubb

[Lord_Vyper]

I'm not 100% sure yet.

I'm wondering how putting the pagefile on a 2nd HD/channel will compare with using hte 2nd drive in a RAID.

I imagine there will be next to no difference, but still fun to try out.

[Fozzik]

Everything I've read points to RAID 0 being very pointless for desktop applications, and it cuts your reliability in half...so probably better to stick with the two drives. I've heard setting the paging file on a separate volume (as long as you also leave at least some paging file on the disk with the OS) can have some positive impacts on performance.

Must be nice to have the money to play around with this stuff. :p

Actually, I'm not sure if that 1 kW power supply would work in a regular desktop computer. It doesn't seem to have the 4-pin 12V power connector that most desktop motherboards need these days for the CPU.

I noticed the motherboard uses a different NIC chip than the Asus board, but as far as Abit's documentation, it looks like it is still a PCI bus solution rather than PCI-Express. I read a review that said it was indeed on PCI-Express, but nothing I can find confirms that, Abit's website says it's PCI, and the description of the chip on the manufacturer's website also only refers to PCI. I guess it's still possible, since I think PCI-Express is supposed to be backwards compatible...but I would be interested to hear how the onboard NIC works for you, and whether you notice any problems/speed issues under heavy load.

I used to really like Abit boards, they made some of the all-time greats. In fact, my last PC used an Abit board. The uGuru chip seems really nice, and the price on this board is again almost too good to be true (like the Asus A8R-MVP). I'll be doing some more research and I'd love to hear about your experience as you go along.

Yeah, the Azalia audio does seem really nice...low CPU utilization along with great sound. I'm kind of suprised with a ultra-high-end machine that you wouldn't want to go with a soundcard. I guess with that kind of onboard audio, there's an arguement to be made for saving the empty slot (especially considering the small number available on that board) and the PCI bandwidth.

[Breogan]

Nice find for the motherboard. It has almost the same features as the ASUS board, but they removed the serial and parallel ports and added a cooling solution for the chipset very similar to the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium (good idea!).

If it performs as it should, we have a winner for the crossfire king! I hope this time we aren't disappointed.

Official thread in the Anandtech forums (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=1791003&enterthread=y)
Review at techPowerUp! (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Abit/AT8)

Take the review with a grain of salt since they got the motherboard from Abit.

[Lord_Vyper]

RAID 0 vs. seperate volume pagefile probably will be moot from a performance perspective, and if that's the case, I'll go with a seperate pagefile and avoid doubling the chances of destruction.
Though with 4GB of RAM, I could easily drop the pagefile entirely (if Windows didn't throw a hissy fit that is!)

I've been working 12-14hr days for the better part of a year working on a inventory/accounting/personnel/mow the lawn/wash the dog all in one system for my company. Finally finished, and just had a flawless deployment. My company decided to recognize in the best way possible, more money :D

That 1k PSU will work in a desktop, it's got a converter cable to take the server 8-pin connection down to a 4-pin.
Too bad there's no chance it'll fit in my case. The top fan & USB/audio connectors will block it from fitting.

I think that review was wrong. The ethernet controller's chipset is vanilla PCI only. I honestly haven't used it in a situation where I could saturate a 1000Mbps link enough to hit the 33Mhz limitations anyway. I averaged around 95Mbps transferring a DVD rip back and forth between the AT8 and my media box, and didn't see any CPU usage spikes, dropped packets, or anything out of the ordinary. It does it's job nice and quietly.

Heh, I've used the uGuru & Abit EQ stuff quite a bit with my review, and have nothing but praise for the depth of info they make available. It's not really a selling point for the average user, but it does go a long way to making a techs life a bit easier with troubleshooting bad components (as does the onboard POST LCD.)
My all time favorite motherboard was Abit's NF7-s v2.0. The AT8 is rapidly working it's magic on me, and I may have a new all time favorite soon :D

As to adding a soundcard, I may. The problem right now is 2 things:
1.) The onboard sound is just plain good!
2.) Space/board real estate limits. With 2 dual slot video cards, I'm limited to the top PCI 1x, and the bottommost PCI slots.
I'm going to be switching out the stock cooling solutions on the video cards, and replacing them with waterblocks, so that should help at bit. I'll probably revisit getting a sound card at that point.

[Fozzik]

So I wonder if the issues with the Asus Board's NIC are due to the chip used (Marvel is the manufacturer I think), if it was just implimentation problems. The Abit uses Realtek...

In general Marvel makes good chips, so my guess would be some problem with either low level firware or a software issue with Asus's drivers for the chip.

A few things I noticed while going over the board -

That's a horrible spot for a floppy connector. I don't care if a lot of people don't use it, there's no reason to locate it in such an inaccessible place.

Pretty much the same with the 4-pin 12V connector, although it's probably less of an issue as far as cable routing.

The heatpipe seems like it might be more for show than performance. One of the first rules about heatpipes is that heat rises... so they work best when they go UP away from the heat. That's why the various heatpipe solutions don't work well at all in cases where the mobo is mounted upside-down.

The fact that the heatpipe on this board comes out sideways, instead of straight up or diagonally up...probably costs a decent amount of cooling performance. It most likely isn't an issue, since the ATI chipset doesn't produce nearly as much heat as the Nforce4...but still. I guess they were trying to give maximum clearance for CPU coolers, but there must be a better way than bringing it out of the heatsink sideways.

6 fan headers - nice.

They put the two channels next to each other on the memory slots, so the sticks don't have as much air around them to run cool in a two-stick config. Not that big a deal I guess.

Anyway, not an ideal layout...but certainly better than some. I like the idea of the cooling solution, with the FETs getting cooling out the back of the case, with air moved by the CPU cooler.

I guess if you continue to have no issues with the realtek NIC, I may want to think about switching over to this board in the $2k system. The price is certainly right.

[Lord_Vyper]

So I wonder if the issues with the Asus Board's NIC are due to the chip used (Marvel is the manufacturer I think), if it was just implimentation problems. The Abit uses Realtek...

In general Marvel makes good chips, so my guess would be some problem with either low level firware or a software issue with Asus's drivers for the chip.
The issues with the Marvell controller are really weird. A lot of NF4 boards use that as their 2nd controller without any problems.
The only other board I've seen use the Realtek controller was a MSI board.


That's a horrible spot for a floppy connector. I don't care if a lot of people don't use it, there's no reason to locate it in such an inaccessible place.
Agreed. I liked Abit's usual design, placing the floppy connector next to the secondary IDE connector.

Pretty much the same with the 4-pin 12V connector, although it's probably less of an issue as far as cable routing.
I've had this board in a open air rack, not a case, so I haven't had to deal with routing much yet, but I agree, it should've been placed along the right edge along with the 24-pin connector

The heatpipe seems like it might be more for show than performance. One of the first rules about heatpipes is that heat rises... so they work best when they go UP away from the heat. That's why the various heatpipe solutions don't work well at all in cases where the mobo is mounted upside-down.

The fact that the heatpipe on this board comes out sideways, instead of straight up or diagonally up...probably costs a decent amount of cooling performance. It most likely isn't an issue, since the ATI chipset doesn't produce nearly as much heat as the Nforce4...but still. I guess they were trying to give maximum clearance for CPU coolers, but there must be a better way than bringing it out of the heatsink sideways.
According to my DigitalDoc, and uGuru, under normal load the NB stays at 57-59c. A bit warm for my tastes (and comperable to NF4 actually) but nothing to get alarmed over.

6 fan headers - nice.
And all able to be alarmed if RPM drops too low, and thermally regulated via onboard temps.

They put the two channels next to each other on the memory slots, so the sticks don't have as much air around them to run cool in a two-stick config. Not that big a deal I guess.

Agreed, I'd personally like to see a bit more spacing between DIMM sockets on this board as well as changing which slot goes to which channel.

[Lord_Vyper]

"whistles while he shops*

Been doing some wheeling and dealing, and came up with a couple interesting counterpoints to some of the bits.

Got an offer for OCZ Enhanced Latency Platinum Series 512MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227207) instead of the mushkin RAM I had specc'd out.
The OCZ sticks are only 512MB, but have a truckload more headroom, overclocking-wise (the particular sticks I was offered can run up to 320Mhz).
mushkin seem to top out at around 270Mhz.
I think I'll probably wind up going with 4 sticks of the OCZ (running at 2.5/3/3 probably)

Also got an offer for a Athlon 64 x2 4400 for $400.
The FX-60 is going for a bit over $1,000, so saving $600, and being able to OC up to/past the FX-60's 2.6Ghz seems like a no-brainer.

Any thoughts on the switches?

[rabb1t]

Also got an offer for a Athlon 64 x2 4400 for $400.
The FX-60 is going for a bit over $1,000, so saving $600, and being able to OC up to/past the FX-60's 2.6Ghz seems like a no-brainer.

There are lots of posts at NewEgg (and other places) where peeps OCed the 2 gig X2 3800+ to 2.5 gig on air, matching the FX-60 in speed. A few mentioned 2.8 on liquid.

So yeah, I never recommend to anyone to buy the FX cores when you can just OC something like an X2.

You shouldn't even need to OC it. More than ~3 gig in 32-bit speed is plenty these days with games.

[Lord_Vyper]

You shouldn't even need to OC it. More than ~3 gig in 32-bit speed is plenty these days with games.

This is very true, but that RAM is crying out to be pushed.

Its starting to look like I'll watercool both GPUs and the northbridge, and *possibly* do phase change on the CPU.
The phase change is largely dependant on when/if OCZ ever releases their phase change kit though.
If they don't release it fairly soon, I'll probably watercool the CPU off a seperate loop.

[Fozzik]

According to my DigitalDoc, and uGuru, under normal load the NB stays at 57-59c.

Wow, that is a bit warm. Seems like that's higher than the temps I get with the A8N-SLI premium passive cooling, but I forget the numbers... I'll check when I get home. I know the Nforce chip runs hotter than the ATI, so that heatpipe on your board may not be doing much of anything. Of course, a water block solves all those concerns (unless it leaks). :D

I read the manual for your board, just trying to get some more info. Take a look at the possible memory configs before you commit to 4 sticks of RAM. The manual may be out of date, but it looks like it might still be set up to downclock by default when four sticks are installed.

The step E cores from AMD seem to do better with all slots populated, but at the very least they still need a higher command rate (2T)...so weigh whatever extra overclocks you might get against the loss of performance from the command rate.

Also, just as a general rule, 4 sticks is going to be a bit slower than 2. This (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/2gb-ram.html) article has some interesting comparisons and benchmarking, looking at the question of 2 sticks vs. 4 for overclocking and performance in general.

[Lord_Vyper]

I read the manual for your board, just trying to get some more info. Take a look at the possible memory configs before you commit to 4 sticks of RAM. The manual may be out of date, but it looks like it might still be set up to downclock by default when four sticks are installed.
Hmm, the manual is a lil funky.
With 2 512Mb sticks, in slots 1+2, or 3+4, it ran at 400Mhz with a CAS of 1.
With 4 512Mb sticks in all 4 slots, it ran at 400Mhz with a CAS of 3.
Wonder if whoever wrote the manual got confused? Or was dealing with pre-rev. E cores?


The step E cores from AMD seem to do better with all slots populated, but at the very least they still need a higher command rate (2T)...so weigh whatever extra overclocks you might get against the loss of performance from the command rate.
And thus I'm torn. I really like the OCability of those 512Mb sticks, but I do do enough photoshop/3d studio to make me REALLY want 2gb+

[Fozzik]

Anandtech has several articles up on 2x1GB kits that are great for overclocking. In fact I think some of them were at or near the highest overclocks achieved with 512MB sticks.

let me find the articles...

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2560
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2676

There they are. :ninja:

[Lord_Vyper]

Quick update.
There were only 2 sticks of that deliciously OCable OCZ RAM, so going to have to pass on it.

While I can't knock Anandtech's review, I can /cry over the disappearance of the 2gb Crucial Ballistix kits. ( I would've gotten those by default initially if I could find them.)

The mushkin RAM I originally specc'd out *should* be close/equal to the ballistix though, and if I recall the price on the Ballistix kits correctly, pretty close to the same price.

Most of the pieces for the new system were delivered today, so the only things I'm missing to get this bad boy up and running is the processor and RAM, and the processor should be here by Monday (went with the x2 4400+).

And last but not least, a quick motherboard update:

Abit emailed me a beta BIOS that seems to have cleared up the CAS2 bug.
I've been running torture tests on this system non-stop for 2 days now with no issues. Stressed every part of this board I can think of, in just about every way possible, and it just laughs and keeps going.

[Breogan]

The advice I give when buying 2x1Gb kits is the following:
Low cost solution - Samsung Original 2x1Gb kits. Those overclock decently, but are naked sticks so you might want to buy a heatspreader for them. They sell for like 200€ here (just 10-20€ more expensive than a Kingston Value kit or OEM ram).
GSkill 2x1Gb DDR500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231021) sticks.

[Lord_Vyper]

Hmm, that G.Skill kit intrigues me. Same Samsung UCCC ICs as the mushkin, and apparently comperable performance, for $30 less.
I'll do some more checking around, and may wind up snagging these instead.

[Fozzik]

I checked on my mobo chip temps for the A8N-SLI premium I've got. It runs about 33c idle and about 38c or so under a big load. Sounds like that heatpipe really isn't doing much on the Abit board...that ATI chip is supposed to be running a good bit cooler than my Nforce4.

[Breogan]

Hmm, that G.Skill kit intrigues me. Same Samsung UCCC ICs as the mushkin, and apparently comperable performance, for $30 less.
I'll do some more checking around, and may wind up snagging these instead.
Have you tried removing the heatspreader and applying whatever thermal compound you have around? Might help with the heat :)

[Lord_Vyper]

I checked on my mobo chip temps for the A8N-SLI premium I've got. It runs about 33c idle and about 38c or so under a big load. Sounds like that heatpipe really isn't doing much on the Abit board...that ATI chip is supposed to be running a good bit cooler than my Nforce4.
Actually, it was due to me having the mobo sitting horizontally on my testing frame :o
When I put it in a case, and got it vertical, the temps dropped to 35c-40c. Heh, the heat pipe does work, once you've set it up properly. Still not as cool as the Asus solution, but a whole lot better then it was. I'd bet the difference is just due to the angle that the heatpipe leaves the northbridge. Asus has it going upward from the start, where the Abit one comes out sideways, the goes up.

[Breogan]

Hmm, that G.Skill kit intrigues me. Same Samsung UCCC ICs as the mushkin, and apparently comperable performance, for $30 less. I'll do some more checking around, and may wind up snagging these instead.
You might find this X-bit labs memory review (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/2gb-roundup.html) useful.

[Lord_Vyper]

You might find this X-bit labs memory review (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/2gb-roundup.html) useful.
Yar, OCZ Platinum sticks win. Infineon ICs are better then the Samsung ICs. Unfortunately, OCZ changed to Infineon CE-6, which doesn't OC as well as the CE-5 batch (the one Xbit tested).

Rule of thumb I use when looking at RAM:
Micron ICs > Infineon ICs > Samsung ICs.
Some batches/revisions may rearrange it, but usually it works.

[Fozzik]

I was bored, so I sat down to plan out a forth recommended system. It was basically a "money is no object", what would I buy, within reason, if I didn't care about money and just wanted the fastest game system right now.

I got about 9/10ths finished writing it up...and realized it looked familiar...

Great minds think alike. Besides a few brand differences...I basically rebuilt your system. :p

[Lord_Vyper]

The RAM has been chosen!
Crucial Ballistix PC4000 2Gb kit (http://www.legitreviews.com/article.php?aid=262) for the win!
Since the kit is no longer manufactured (and doesn't even come up on Crucial's site), I was forced to employ both :ninja: and :pirate: skills to get em.

Soon we shall see just what this AT8 board can do!


I was bored, so I sat down to plan out a forth recommended system. It was basically a "money is no object", what would I buy, within reason, if I didn't care about money and just wanted the fastest game system right now.

I got about 9/10ths finished writing it up...and realized it looked familiar...

Great minds think alike. Besides a few brand differences...I basically rebuilt your system. :p
This is the first time I've actually been in a position to somewhat ignore price tags and get exactly the parts I want. It's a truely satisfying thing, in a horribly geeky way :cool:

[Breogan]

This is the first time I've actually been in a position to somewhat ignore price tags and get exactly the parts I want. It's a truely satisfying thing, in a horribly geeky way :cool:
I'm kind of jealous... where did you say you live? ;)

I'll be doing the same after summer if the sun, the moon and the planets are correctly aligned, which means finishing my training internship with a good mark, so I can pick my hometown as destination.

[rabb1t]

I was bored, so I sat down to plan out a forth recommended system.

You could, instead, do a recommendation thingy for monitors. (Or add them in to the builds at the end or something.)

[Fozzik]

I could, but monitors are really subjective...it's hard to recommend something that would make most people happy. Everyone sees things a little different, as I've said in other threads, and I don't have the capabilities at the moment to do standardized testing of my own on monitors. Basically all I could do is go from reviews on other sites, and that still wouldn't address the problem of one person loving the picture quality of a particular monitor, and someone else hating it.

I can vouch for the 2405fpw, at least as far as my tastes. It performs beautifully in my eyes. ;)

On a totally unrelated note, I was still sort of wandering the web looking at power supplies. As I said on another thread, I've liked Fortron/Source power supplies for years (I've had several and they are reliable workhorses), but for some reason I never looked at Fortron power supplies when I was searching for components for the recommended systems. Maybe because they sort of changed their name to FSP.

At any rate...this power supply looks really nice -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104014

Sleaved cables, all the connectors one could possibly need, single 120mm fan for quiet cooling, a good reliable name, and 60amps combined on 4 separate +12V rails. Berry berry nice. I'll have to think on that one to go in the $2k system.

[Lord_Vyper]

Sleaved cables, all the connectors one could possibly need, single 120mm fan for quiet cooling, a good reliable name, and 60amps combined on 4 separate +12V rails. Berry berry nice. I'll have to think on that one to go in the $2k system.
Erm... I don't think that means what you think that means...

12v1 and 12v2 go to the 8 pin EPS connector (12v2 also supplies a PCI-E connector), 12v3 goes to drive molexes and SATA connectors, and 12v4 goes to the motherboard and the other PCI-E connector.

So, you're not going to wind up with 60amps usable, probably ~50amps or so, since most of 12v2 will stay unused due to not having a 2nd CPU.

Good find, but it's really designed as more of a workstation/small server PSU then a desktop PSU.

[Fozzik]

And around 50 amps wouldn't be enough? :p

Good find, but it's really designed as more of a workstation/small server PSU then a desktop PSU.

So are the big monster supplies from PC P&C. Doesn't mean you can't use them in a desktop if you have high power needs.

[Lord_Vyper]

Hehe, my point was to watch out for amps per rail, not just amps total. FSP and other reputable PSU vendors don't do it, but some makers drop the amps per rail when they get into >2 rail PSUs.

[Lord_Vyper]

Does that power supply seriously handle two X1900 cards? Will your wall outlet handle two X1900 cards? :D

Quit being psychic! Just realized that ATI specifies 38amps for a X1900XT crossfire system, and the PC P&C 510 has 38 amps available at peak.
I haven't been able to find amp draw specifics on the X1900XTs alone yet, so I'm not sure how ATI arrives at their recommendation, but it's looking like I might be right at the line.
Adding in a water pump will almost certainly push the system's amp draw to 40amps, so I'm going to have to come up with some alternatives... possibly use a water pump that I can plug into the wall, or switch to a bigger PSU, and save the 510 for the girlfriends next comp.

Evil power hungry stuff!

[Nubb]

Quit being psychic! Just realized that ATI specifies 38amps for a X1900XT crossfire system, and the PC P&C 510 has 38 amps available at peak.

Ouch, I bet there's going to be a lot of folks with sub-par PSUs and crossfire (and not even know they're under spec).

[Fozzik]

ATI really needs to get on the ball and start recommending hardware for Crossfire the way Nvidia does. It is too good a thing Nvidia is doing with their SLI ceritification system for ATI to just ignore it.

Of course they need to get some more decent motherboards on the market too. Right now ATI is making it way too difficult, considering people are spending so much money on their stuff.

[Lord_Vyper]

Someone convince me that I really don't want that PC P&C 1k watt PSU...
Someone tell me that 68amps on 3 12v rails is overkill...
Remind me that I'd have to remove everything in the top 2 5.25 bays to fit the monster in...

Gah!

[JAdams]

Do it! Do it! Do it!


:D :D :D

[rabb1t]

Nah you don't need it.

Just go crazy and mod the case so you can have a 2nd regular PSU and go dual PSU. :rolleyes: :eek:

[Lord_Vyper]

Just go crazy and mod the case so you can have a 2nd regular PSU and go dual PSU. :rolleyes: :eek:
Sadly enough, I've done that a couple times.
One rig actually had 4 PSUs. 1 for all the normal stuff, 1 for the watercooling, and 2 powering peltiers on both the CPU and GPU.
Didn't overclock much, and eventually fried my CPU when one of the PSUs overvolted and tripped. Kinda more of an experiment just to see if I could...

And I'd like to thank the internet for giving me the equivalent of a BS in electrical engineering over the years :twisted:

[rabb1t]

One rig actually had 4 PSUs.

omg hahahahaha :D

[Fozzik]

Bah! Try out the Fortron one so I can see if it's good to add to the $2k system. :ninja:

[Lord_Vyper]

Bah! Try out the Fortron one so I can see if it's good to add to the $2k system. :ninja:
Haha! Now I'm the psychic one!
Ordered that Fortron to put in a high end designer box at work. Figured dual Opterons and a RAID 10 15k RPM SCSI array will be adequate at exposing any problem with the PSU.:pirate:

[tennex]

This vendor apparently originates from Korea. Nevertheless, I like what I see. I cannot post an exact link to it, because of the way IE interacts with the coding of their website. Anyway, goto www.3rsys.com / change to English / select products / examine the R900 and see what you think.

This case is more than likely going to be my next case. It already has room for 2 power supplies and it really is a monster. Also, the vendor says do to it's bulky size it is not recommended for home use. I wish someone else would order it first. I can live with pissing away $125 to have a shot at getting a top dollar case.

[Lord_Vyper]

That's cool. Never seen a case that allows two seperate normal PSUs before.

When I did my 4 PSU monster, I used this (http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/tower/760/SC762-420.cfm) case btw. Load of space above the normal PSU mounting area to add all kinds of fun stuff.

[tennex]

LMAO, that thing is to big. It must have been some years back when you did that. Fozzik, put my case in your "the sky is the limit system", so I can feel elite. J/K in all honesty, I was going to post it in a new thread until I read this one. I am getting all excited and haven't even ordered it yet. I would almost order it now just to play with it, which I dont even know how long it will be until I build my next rig. Hopefully, somebody will buy this piece of turd P4 off me, and that'll be much sooner than expected.

[Lord_Vyper]

Hehe, well, 1 of the 4 PSUs was an ATX, the other 3 were AT... yea, it was a while ago :p

I dunno about that R900 though. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me.

[Lord_Vyper]

I'm so weak willed.
Just ordered the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1K watt PSU.

Judging by the size listed, I'm going to have to remove the top 90mm fan, the top USB/Firewire/audio headers, and the PSU retaining bar to fit the beast in.

[Fozzik]

That R900 is really nice looking on the outside. Internally, though, I'm really not fond of those cases with the big fixed bays in the front. Nothing wrong with them, I guess...just a personal preference. Looks like there should be plenty of room, and it's got the type of cooling I like, two simple 120mm fans. :D

[Lord_Vyper]

All the pieces are in, and have been through every heinous torture technique I could come up with, and passed with flying colors. Except one...
Overclockability.
I've stressed components here and there, but haven't truely been able to push this monster as far as it'll go.
Now, we watercool.

This is going to be a slight departure from normal watercooling, due to the NB/MOSFETs running a bit warmer then usual, and my using RAM that hates being below 2.8v even at stock speeds.

I'm thinking of doing a 3 loop system. Broken down like this:

pump, northbridge, MOSFETs, RAM, radiator, reservoir
pump, GPU1, GPU2, radiator, reservoir
pump, CPU, radiator, reservoir

Now, this is a boatload of tubing running around, so I'm thinking small-bore is going to be easier to work with, nicer to look at, and within 1-2% of the efficiency of the 1/2" big bore setups.

[Fozzik]

All the pieces are in, and have been through every heinous torture technique I could come up with, and passed with flying colors. Except one...
Overclockability.
I've stressed components here and there, but haven't truely been able to push this monster as far as it'll go.
Now, we watercool.

This is going to be a slight departure from normal watercooling, due to the NB/MOSFETs running a bit warmer then usual, and my using RAM that hates being below 2.8v even at stock speeds.

I'm thinking of doing a 3 loop system. Broken down like this:

pump, northbridge, MOSFETs, RAM, radiator, reservoir
pump, GPU1, GPU2, radiator, reservoir
pump, CPU, radiator, reservoir

Now, this is a boatload of tubing running around, so I'm thinking small-bore is going to be easier to work with, nicer to look at, and within 1-2% of the efficiency of the 1/2" big bore setups.


Good thing you have found something constructive to do with all that free time and money. I'd hate to think what you would be doing otherwise. :D

We'll need lots of pictures, of course. And make sure you add food coloring or whatever so the fluid is glow in the dark purple or something.

[Lord_Vyper]

Good thing you have found something constructive to do with all that free time and money. I'd hate to think what you would be doing otherwise. :D
Lol, hey, I'm just enjoying it while it lasts. God only knows when the next big expansion/dev cycle/crisis is going to pop up :p

[Nubb]

yes, pictures! We demand it. This'll be better than browsing porn (but not as exciting as www.hotgnomes.porn)

Thanks,
Nubb

[rabb1t]

You could always think 'outside of the box (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=802808&page=1&pp=20)' for your mods. ;)

[Lord_Vyper]

You could always think 'outside of the box (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=802808&page=1&pp=20)' for your mods. ;)
Hehe, I love that mod. I've actually got that thread stickied too :p
And as for thinking outside the box, until recently, the beast was sitting in a homebrewed rack similar to this (http://www.xoxide.com/hspc-tech-station-standard-black.html).


yes, pictures! We demand it. This'll be better than browsing porn (but not as exciting as www.hotgnomes.porn)
I'll put pics up when I'm done. Right now it's a mess of tangled wires :p

[Lord_Vyper]

Preliminary list of watercooling bits.

Pump: Aquastream Modified Eheim 1046 (http://www.sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaqmoeh10.html) $114.95
Radiator: Black Ice Pro 120.3 (http://www.sharkacomputers.com/blicepro12tr.html) $54.95
Reservoir: Aquabox 5.25" Bay Reservoir (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaq5aldrb.html) $67.95
GPU Blocks: Aquagrati X1800 GPU + RAM cooler (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaqx1vgac.html) $94.95 x2
CPU Block: Swiftech STORM (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/STORM.asp) $84.95
RAM Block: RAMplex RAM Waterblock (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoraddr2me.html) $54.95
Northbridge Block: Twinplex Chipset Cooler (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcotwprochw.html) $43.95
MOSFET Block: A8N MOSFET cooler (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoasa8nmow.html) $36.95
Controller: Aquaero LCD Multifunction Controller (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoaqwhonbl.html) $129.95
Extra Goodies:

Flow sensor (http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcoflcoseca.html) $49.95
Tubing: 3/8", 5/16", 8mm ~$30
Fluid XP+ (http://sharkacomputers.com/flxpnonconon.html) $34.95
Fittings: ~$15
Total: $908.40

Bit of an explanation here. 99% of watercooling setups never break $300. With me wanting to use small bore, and have particular looks/parts, the price skyrockets:mad: