How many of you would consider playing Vanguard on a PvP server?

[Oloh]

I am just curious about how PvP friendly our readers are. How many of you would consider playing Vanguard on a PvP server?

[Kheldon]

Depends on the rulesets. If it's just PvP on with no objectives...then I won't. Those servers tend to mostly be just a whole lot of random 1on1 fights and those are boring as heck.

I want big bad guild wars with strategy and tactics and stuff.

Still voted yes though.

[Fozzik]

I want to play Vanguard. With any kind of open PvP, it's not really an mmorpg anymore in my opinion. I can play street fighter any time I want. I play MMO's for the depth, the relationships, and the complexity.

I probably should just avoid talking about my thoughts on PvP here the same way I do at the OVF. ;)

[Raya]

I voted maybe. As a rule, I am not fond of PvP, especially the kind that wipes multitudes of newbies out who are just trying to get started.

However, I LOVED Realm v. Realm in DAoC - was fighting in it at level 7 (with a lot of protection from my guild leader at the time :)). In WoW now I do enjoy taking the Horde down if they attack first (have a level 46 Dark Elf Hunter), but otherwise am content to live in peaceful co-existence with them.

Basically, though, I am not that much of a fan of PvP. If I want to get into fights with my neighbors I can do that in RL :D

[Genda]

I voted Maybe....

The only reason I wouldn't is because Branyanu doesn't like PVP and we usually play together.

[Staunch]

Maybe....

I agree with Kheldon on depending on the ruleset as well as Raya on Realm vs Realm in DAoC. There is just too fine a line between playing a role and griefing now adays in full-pvp that just irks me sometimes. I probably spend 80 percent of my time flagged now in WoW but still having the ability to just turn off the flag and do some PvE at anytime I want is somewhat comforting.

[Raam Kx'Thorath]

PvP is just a delicate matter... and to answer your question, one would almost have to know what PvP in Vanguard will be as well as how the game mechanic will function.

Personally I'm swinging a bit to both sides. On one hand it will always be nice to be able to log on and play without having to worry about getting killed.

On the other hand, the challenge there is for you to actually having to watch your back constantly also adds a new thrill to the game for those who actually enjoy it.

I put my vote on 'Maybe' simply because thats as good as my answer is atm.

[Feyshtey]

I'm with others on this. I voted maybe, and the choice would be reliant on the ruleset. But it would also be reliant on what Vanguard is. We don't know what the gameplay is like right now, or if there are systems within the game that really push into uncharted territory. Ok, I don't know at any rate...

In general, I'm not a fan of PvP. I find it a distraction from the game itself. But if the game lends itself really well to PvP, because of politics, land ownership, etc, then I might be convinced. PvP just for the sake of PvP isn't a good enough reason for me.

[Foxeye]

What Feyshtey said. :)

[Kheldon]

Maybe....

I agree with Kheldon on depending on the ruleset as well as Raya on Realm vs Realm in DAoC. There is just too fine a line between playing a role and griefing now adays in full-pvp that just irks me sometimes. I probably spend 80 percent of my time flagged now in WoW but still having the ability to just turn off the flag and do some PvE at anytime I want is somewhat comforting.I'm playing PVE on WoW atm and probably will in the future. The honour and battlegrounds systems will be implemented on the PVE servers as well so I won't miss out when the purposeful PvP enters WoW. :D

[Troz]

There needs to be some form of PvP in every mmorpg. EQ1 had dueling and arenas and that should be the bare minimum. Look at EQ2 now, no PvP and training at all and it becomes a weak game. It settles disputes in an orderly way, as well as adding an extra fun element for gm events and guild events.

I'm not a big fan of ganking people, but a system like Lineage 2's would be awesome. There's very limited ganking with tactical pvp battles.

The whole problem with pvp is balance issues. If you create pvp without taking into account the pve, you end up with unbalanced EQ1 servers. If you create a game with PvP in mind, a la WoW, you hear whining about both pve and pvp balancing, and usually one will ruin the other. If you let it go, you end up like L2 where certain classes excel at PvP and others don't.

[Raam Kx'Thorath]

Agreed. Yet MEO devs have announced that there won't be PvP in any form in their game.

[Nepenthia]

No pvp for me :) Laugh I felt guilty killing someone in a duel for heaven's sake!

Nep

[Jasarina]

I voted no. The real reason is Iam not a PvP fan. While I have tried it a few times I have found for the most part that it is an uncontrolled mess. I have yet to try PvP in a game that kept the playing field even and fair without continual griefing.

Jasarina

[Heloisa]

Voted yes :)

I never experienced PvP before WoW and after a friends urging I started a character on a PvP server.

I can never go back to a PvE server as the PvP aspect adds such an amazing layer to the gaming experience. It is such a rush! :)

[Voldare]

I wouldn't play on a full blown PvP server, i'm not good at it and don't aspire to be good at it.
Having said that, if there is a limited PvP server i would consider it. In my experience PvP does bring a sort of excitement with it even for people who aren't interested in PvP.

Always having to watch my back incase i will get attacked by another player doesnt appeal to me but i wouldn't mind it occasionally.

[Niborea]

I've voted , NO

I've not really tried pvp in any mmorpg, but I can honestly say I don't think I'd be very good at it, I'm one who tends to go out of my way to help others not hender them :p




Niborea

[Homeslice513]

Greetings :)

I put a maybe down because I am about PvP if it is done pretty cool. I would have to see the rulesets on the servers to know for sure but I would possibly be in it for some RvR styling :)

[macros]

I would definitely consider it. Especially if some of the rules discussed on the thread below are present. Mostly with relation to rouges and thievery.

http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14400

macros

[otteriffic]

If it was PVP in the context of DAoC then ABSOLUTELY... that was by far the best PvP system ever created for a MMOG

If it is PVP in the context of WoW then NO WAY... ALl WoW PvP has turned into is a gank fest to gain more and more "honor"

DAoC has literally ruined me for any other type of PvP... the only problem was that the classes were overtweaked to near uselessness and the game content was fairly lacking...

The exact opposite was true for WoW the game was great but the PvP and ganking completely blew it for me... and you may say "then just play on a non-pvp server" the only problem with that is the group of friends I had been guilded with through multiple games decided to try out the PvP server and by the time we actually started the PvP most people were 40 plus and very unwilling to start over ona new server

So if Sigil is reading this then (look at DAoC for a decent PvP model and work off that... thanks guys!!!!)

[otteriffic]

Agreed. Yet MEO devs have announced that there won't be PvP in any form in their game.

Raam,

Same goes with DDO (dungeons and dragons online)

they feel that to fully port the pen and paper system to an online world you have to promote grouping and cooperative gaming as opposed to fighting eachother... which for a D&D game is exactly the path they should take

[Homeslice513]

Hmmm I thought I replied to this when I said maybe :D

I really would just have to see the game in play and no the ruleset for the server. If it adds to the gameplay and makes Vanguard cooler then I would but if it is just about being able to kill one another I am not about that :)

HA HA just found my last post :D I did post here lol

[The_Fox]

I'd have to say probably not. Duels and stuff are necessary, just for fun, but if I wanna kill people, that's what FPS's are for. I don't want Vangaurd to turn into a game I scream at rather profusely in colored language :p

[Nhilist]

I want to play Vanguard. With any kind of open PvP, it's not really an mmorpg anymore in my opinion. I can play street fighter any time I want. I play MMO's for the depth, the relationships, and the complexity.

I probably should just avoid talking about my thoughts on PvP here the same way I do at the OVF. ;)

Have to agree 100%

[Heloisa]

I'd have to say probably not. Duels and stuff are necessary, just for fun, but if I wanna kill people, that's what FPS's are for. I don't want Vangaurd to turn into a game I scream at rather profusely in colored language :p


yeah I hear ya mate. I'm sure we'll have our fill of PvP playing Battlefield Vanguard :)

(btw I really like your handle Starfox hehe) ;)

Over time I've come to realize it's the people you surround yourself to share the journey and experiences with that's important.

So you guys lead, and I will gladly follow :)

[Forestknight]

i voted yes

i enjoy pve the most, but i do delight in occasional pvp... but my main would always be PvE

[Forsh]

And ForestKnight has the reflexes to play PvP. Take my word on it! :D

[Raya]

*makes a note that rangers and bows/arrows and trees are not a good combination to run into - like I said - I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of a ranger in a dark forest* :D

[Forestknight]

When your so insane *Twitch* that even your ears are twitchy, then you *Twitch* too *Twitch* shall have the power over reflex games *Twitch* *Twitch*

(is twitch a word? i wrote it too many times to know anymore... hate it when that happens)

[Aelvan]

It depends on the ruleset for me. i hate griefers but that will always be there. just as long as a lvl60 isn't aloud to kill a lvl 1 i will be happy.

[Peralay]

Very unlikely, with PvP's mechanics at its current stage. Only caveat would be if Sigil somehow pulled off a format condusive to roleplaying instead of FFA/Gankfests.

[hallower]

Maybe. I'm not a fan of dueling or realm PvP that lacks lore-driven goals. And even in real-life PvP (basketball, football, etc), there's only so much smack-talk I can take without smacking someone, lol. I enjoyed PvP more in SWG than in Shadowbane, largely due to the realistic HP.

My plan for a long time now has been to play both Vanguard and Trials of Ascension. ToA will probably come out a good while after Vanguard, but to be honest, it has me equally excited (despite the enormous difference in developer experience). I expect Vangaurd to be great, but it would have to be pretty amazing to keep me from trying ToA. In ToA, the borders between PvE and PvP fade a bit. It will allow me to play a beast against other players...a long-held dream of mine.

[aeiouy]

I have played a lot of MMOG PVP in the past, and I am of the mind that PVP in MMOGs is a broken mechanic. Fine for those who want to play it, but there is so much wrong with it that detracts from the playability of any game that I just forgo it.

I think it is something that can work, if implemented properly, but it requires some pretty strigent controls ones that more traditional PVP players would bristle at, for sure.

[Hymera]

maybe.
depends on rules. if evil gunker can loot my uber stuff(which i camped very very long), this pvp not for me. think death in pvp must be easy in plan resurrection and etc... other side this question can be free-pvp in all territories except market and camping places.

[Jasarina]

I voted no intially but after some reading I would chance that to a maybe. Would mostly depend on what ruleset is used. I really dislike PvP. However I did't mind DAoC with the realm vs realm.

I have not actively PvPed in WoW but have been killed and had my corpse camped a few times. Was not fun. I never even so much as dueled in EQ1 and never killed another player in SWG. Most of my PvP experiences except for DAoC were negative ones.

Jasarina

[Woland]

I dislike pvp in general unless its worked into the theme of the the game. I pvpd in Star Wars Galaxies but I didn't think it was very balanced. I did realm war in Dark age of Camelot though.

[Verkain]

I love PvP when it's done right but unfortunately, it rarely is done right to my tastes. If there was a PvP Vanguard server, I'd definitely give it a shot.

[midway]

i played on RZ in EQ.. im not sure i could do the pvp thing again..

[Woland]

Possibly if it the pvp is integrated into the game in meaningful way, otherwise no. I played DAOC realm pvp for awhile and liked it.

[Eclipse]

I have had nothing but bad experiences in PvP. I have played both, and I have noticed there are 2 differences between PvP and PvE:
1) No griefers or gankers
2) Less often will you hear..."Omgzg I jUst pWNt j00 wiff Meh UoBahr NeEnja SKilllz! in general chat or otherwise. Like a previous poster said, if I want to PvP I will play a FPs like CS or something along those lines.

I seem to notice more dedication to raiding environment content is found on PvE servers, and I will be playing the game to succeed in that content. This isn't to offend those who like to PvP, as I love to PvP...but not the way games are set up thus far. If I was on a PvP server it would be my personal goal to absolutely destroy anyone who I saw ganking/griefing, as I believe these to be two of the main reasons I feel there is a deterioration in community of these MMO's.

I do agree on the fact that it adds an element of adrenaline when you have to be careful. And if they didn't allow anyone to grief other players, or gank lower levels, I would be ok with it.
But I'm going to be playing the game for its PvE content, the PvP would just be an annoying fly that is just out of reach to swat.

Not meant to sound rude, just have been having the same conversations on OVF and IRL...so it's something I've thought about a LOT.

I can hope the decision is NO, because if the focus is raiding pve content, then stretching the time out thinner to include PvP seems to me to be a speedbump...but if I was invited to join, and the guild went PvP, it would not change my opinion of wanting to join.

Now, as I have confused or offended everyone, I'll now slink away to bed. :D

-Eclipse

[Eclipse]

Recently, I took 2-3 hours out of my life and read the entire "R U PK" thread in the archives section...
I opened it up with an open mind because I know I can be shut off when it comes to certain things.
So now, in doing so, I have realized that I must step back and look at my comments. I don't feel as strongly vs PVP as I once did, and if you're readin this Oloh, I'm gonna cut-paste somethin for ya....(long)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Wow.
So, I took the time (about 3 hours) to read through the entire thread carefully. Except when I could tell someone was just gonna say something dumb, and I skipepd that, lol.
The point is, I have to now re-think my previous "set-in-stone" hatred for PKers.
I don't hate griefers like PhantomRogue and Oloh, I hate the fact they exist. I hate the fact that there is not enough meaningful reason to PvP, that players like those two (and others) make their own sadistic ones.

IMHO, Oloh, being griefer el numero uno, also has the absolute best ideas to combat this phenomena. Which is somewhere on the level of incredible respect and confusion, that leaves me in awe of his posts.
I would go to war with this guy any day of the week.

However, the PvP in VG:SoH will rely on Sigil's vigilance and determination to make it good. there needs to be GM/Dev participation in PvP, not restriction or strict "You can't do that!!" slap on the wrist like an over-bearing parent...but REAL involvement.
If the playerbase is setting up their own sub-rules, regulations and conventions...then the GM's duty is to roll with the punches and adapt/improvise.

Griefers are a cancer to the game, but as long as the game allows them, then I am going to have to support their right to impede other's rights.
That being said, I think harsh community-based penalties be imposed.
You can't ban someone because they're doing something you have not tried to discourage. So, i think this is an incredibly important issue.

The fact is, griefers are few. But when they're around, they make their voices heard.

Question:
How does a gaming company sort the PKer from the Griefer? Oloh suggested they need to watch for griefing. Sure, go for it. If griefers are caught in the act by a Dev or GM and are convicted of said heinous activity, then do something about it. Don't ban them, they don't care. Oloh said the only thing you can do to a griefer that will make him think twice is removing his ability to grief.
So, let's say a GM is notified of a disturbance in an area of someone continuously griefing, they come over stealthily and shadow this person for a bit...they witness behavior they deem intolerable, then action can be taken.

"You sir, are hereby stripped of your PvP enabling. You cannot PK, or become involved in PK events, or anything of the sort for 30 days ***PLAYED TIME***, but be careful, because others can still kill you."

Oloh, if you're readin this...might this make you think twice about griefing a character?
Notice i have no problem with people ganking or killing another player...What i DO have a problem with is all the things Oloh described that he liked to do.
Go ahead and randomly kill others as you sprint through the areas of the game, but maybe you would think twice about corpse-camping, or continuously griefing someone who is trying to XP, cuz you might be made into a complete newb and target for a long time.

My penalty would be broad too...this would encompass any character on that server with that billing info. IP addresses can be changed, but there's a paper trail. Are you willing to move into a new house just to get out of a penalty? If you are, then i say all the more power to ya.

If the guild I like most, decides after the PvP rulesets are released that a PvP server is the right choice, I will embrace it. If not, then I say good luck.

I'd like to know if this would have stopped Oloh from excessive griefing though. Even if GMs weren't that frequent in shadowing the griefer...the mere possibility that someone might be watching is the same reason people sometimes think twice about doing 140 MPH on a freeway.

-Eclipse


---------------------------------------------------------------

So, any thoughts?
I have to retract my "vote" per se, to that of "need to wait and see what the rulesets are" before I say what I would want to do for sure. If Sigil and Vanguard chooses the option of:
Letting the griefer be and just let things flow...

Then I would vote no, but would know deep down that I yearned for PvP without griefers. I love the thrill, the danger...but I hate the feeling of the energy-sucking grief. I see griefers as (no offense to you, you just perfected a situation that was already there) a vampire. They take others' energy to feed their own, and brighten their day by darkening someone else's.
That being said, I hope they heed your voice more than Akkirus seemed to. If they did, I'd be happy.

I know you guys are all out havin fun playin BF2, but I've decided not to purchase another game until VG comes out. Eagerly awaiting news on recruitment procedures.
Sincerely,
Eclipse

[Zobbie]

I am not a big fan of PVP, but being able to whack someone who really jerks your chain can add to the "realism", we could have our own brand of road rage! :D

But I do worry about gangs roaming around killing lowbies for kicks..

[Yikidee]

Think i am with the first page of people here (did nto read the rest, am at work ;)). Depends on the ruleset.

Personaly i am still to see a ruleset like and as good as(IMO) UO's. That being the Grey/Red thing. Of course they would have to expand on it, but the basic's was great.

You were actaully penalised if you killed too many innocent people and if you just attacked anyone, anyone could attack you without penalty. Kind of takes away the want to just run around and attack anyone :)

Althou running around Hate with a few other people and "finding" another group was always fun :D

[radlore]

When I first started EQ I remember not knowing if I could attack other players or not at all, in fact it didn't really occur to me that you might not be able to. When I found out that you couldn't on my server I was a bit dissapointed. It's not that I wanted to be fighting players all the time at all, but because I wanted a game world with no artificial inhibitors as such.

In the years since then, I realised I haven't missed PvP at all. If I wanted to duel I could with consent from the other person, or I could go to certain areas where everyone could attack others. But the reason I play mmorpgs is to team up with like minded people and go against the game. I don't want my buddy (or me) to get killed (when we're busy exploring or something) by some 13 yr old kid who's on school hols with a char 10 lvls higher than us just because he thinks it makes him l33t.

Having said that, PvP can be fun. I just like being able to decide when to participate in it. We wanted to have a guildwar between my guild and a friendly rival at one stage in EQ, but that command never seemed to work:/

I also dislike the amount of balancing that occurs due to PvP. I don't care if some class can outdamage me if I've got some other cool abilities to bring to the table. But PvP doesn't rate 'cool abilities' it just rates your ability to PvP.

In my ideal mmorpg, there'd be no concept of PvP or PvE. Yes you'd be able to hit other players or any NPC if you wanted, but there would be consequences for harrasment, like in real life.

In short, I guess my answer is maybe. If PvP isn't the driving factor in the game world. If it is moderated by the community and CS. Then maybe I could play in a PvP world, and more importantly, recommend it to friends.

[Integral]

PvP is the only fluid and dynamic aspect of gameplay after a while in most (if not all) MMOs. It is the only aspect of gameplay for those intending to spend 4-6 hours a day gaming in which every situation is different, outcomes fluctuate wildly on parameters which define the quality of the participating gamers.

Strategy, skill, equipment, timing, cohesiveness, organization all count for that much more in PvP than in PvE. PvE battle plans can be "scaled" to fit into a scenario where your team will come out on top, more likely than not, even against the toughest mobs. In PvP, you can never "scale" plans into a guarenteed result any way. Which is where the element of fluidness comes from. And that lends itself very well to dynamic content.

PvP: Rewards I have little information on how and whats of the planned objectives/rewards mechanics as far as PvP goes in Vanguard. But as long as there is a PvP system in place, i'll be a participant.


PvP: Griefing Griefing/smack talking is held to be more rampant a trait among PvPers than PvEers.

I will, however say this: if unwanted PK-ing can be bad in PvP for some, almost everyone will attest to their dislike for PvE camping...which is what PvE "griefing" is all about. Griefing exists in every aspect of game mechanics. It can be minimised...however, it shouldn't be at the cost of competetiveness.

As an example, if i'm playing a level 60 <Hoard character> who comes across a level 5 Alliance newbie in contested lands, to kill that level 5 might be griefing, but if I run into a level 30 and kill him, there's very little justification to get labelled as someone who "griefs". A level 5 may not really know what the heck contested lands are - but if a level 30 doesn't, he needs to learn a lesson.

I respect those who almost exclusively involve themselves with PvE gameplay. It just doesn't do anything for me after a while. I love PvP...and if i'm not PvPing, i'd must rather craft.

[Eclipse]

ganking is what you described.
griefing is far different.
Griefing would be making sure that lvl 30 in contested lands never goes more than 5 minutes without being killed by you until he logs off for the day.
And if that's what one considers fun PvP...that is the reason I am generally not in favor of it.
:D

-Eclipse

[Damned]

Maybe

I have nothing against PvP but my main focus is always PvE. I would probably want to play my main on a PvE server and an alt on a PvP. However if I was in a great guild with people I really liked and they were going to play on a PvP server, then I would probably follow them.

[Integral]

ganking is what you described.
griefing is far different.
Griefing would be making sure that lvl 30 in contested lands never goes more than 5 minutes without being killed by you until he logs off for the day.
And if that's what one considers fun PvP...that is the reason I am generally not in favor of it.
:D

-Eclipse

This is where game mechanics come in. Overt timers, area ejection, negative fame and others can all be used to counter the dubiousness of mental integrity that some gamers display.

I think it is not only essential that these exist to protect the lowbies from a distasteful experience but also to not turn them off from PvP - which often happens to a player after a few cases like these with him.

A lot of people do exist who aren't exactly the epitome of honor in the PvP sub-community, but there are those who PvP with class and PvP very well while they are at it. The gameplay itself isn't the problem - it, for me at least, is a big high...it's exciting, fast and makes one push oneself as a gamer - but it's really some elements in the PvP communities which evolve are what become the problem for some others if allwed to remain unchecked.

[Eclipse]

I agree to an extent, and I am gonna direct you to a thread on a different site on just this ubject.../sigh I just don't have the energy to type it all out again!

Now I just gotta go find it!
Ok, here it is:
http://www.rpunion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144

-Eclipse

[Integral]

I agree to an extent, and I am gonna direct you to a thread on a different site on just this ubject.../sigh I just don't have the energy to type it all out again!

Now I just gotta go find it!
Ok, here it is:
http://www.rpunion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144


Very incisive post, and i agree.

Except that the anti-griefing systems need to be thought out very well. For example, under your system, which is a lot like FFXI's PvP system, in that a flag/star would make the griefer perma-attackable by others after one attack outside contested zones, second offense would involve temporary account suspension and so on...

But (correct me if i am wrong), wouldn't it be better to just revert to PvP between declared players in non-contested zones ? Under your system for example, if a player is flagged/starred, wouldnt it be better for that player to be able to attack/be attacked by only another player who is similarly flagged/starred ? With PvP objectives as far as defense/offense are considered only available to declared/starred characters ?

A lot like SWG's PvP declaration system.

The reason i say this is that a PvP system which is only implemented to encourage duelling will make large scale group PvP impossible.

If you go for a PvP declaration/starring system like FFXI where a player can declare and attack anyone and get penalized for it...except that the penalty could mean account suspension...there would be no room for PvP objectives outside contested lands. Why would a normal PvPer attack any other character at all if he faces a penalty - no motivation and then why implement a counter for something which doesnt exist ?

Why not just remove PvP completely from non-contested lands outside duel challenges if PK is bad in these zones ?

I'd think that perma-attackability inside contested lands (PvP declared or undeclared) and the ability to attack and be attacked by only PvP starred/flagged/declared characters outside contested zones should take care of the griefing problem.

Those who want to PvP outside contested lands declare/flag/star themselves, those who do not, don't.

What's the problem here ? :)

[Integral]

I guess what i'm trying to get at, is attackability and reverse-griefing is very tricky to counter. You cannot grief without attackability and you WILL be reverse-griefed if attackability is implemented. This is besides the headaches in implementing a griefing-free PvP system...one which actually has dynamic PvP mechanics of goals/rewards with risks.

By reverse-griefing i mean...as an example, ABC is a level 1 character. XYZ is a level 60 character. ABC walks up to XYZ...and because attackability is implemented, attacks him and hits for 2 points of damage. XYZ, however, auto-attacks and hits ABC for 500 points of damage and kills him inadvertedly, thereby XYZ getting flagged as a "griefer" even though he didn't grief. He GOT griefed...by a lowbie. Wheeee.

An open PK system which counters griefing is very hard to implement without abuse.

I still think declaration based PvP is the way to go for large scale, non griefing PvP. You want PvP, you declare. You dont want it, you don't.

If however an open PK system is implemented, i'm afraid the only way to stop griefing would be what Oloh mentioned. Severe penalties like perma death for getting killed. This might actually have an added spinoff beneficial effect - People would be forced to move in large PvP groups and would really have to be like cats on a hot tin roof. It might actually function like a nice little challenging mini-game too...you died ? Too bad...start from scratch baby and next time try to do better.

Pitch this with a group based PvP system where the end-game is based on group rewards (together with the individual risks) and PvP would be rare - but it would be beautiful whenever a group of people decide to go for it. This would encourage duelling for training as well - nobody would want to go out with a class the intricacies in PvP of which that person isnt VERY well acquainted with. When people do PvP, everyone would know that they have to keep their act VERY tight and play "balls to the walls" stuff - because the alternative isn't very nice if people start dropping.

[Boggies]

WoW is my only experience with PVP because I have only played Everquest and WoW and EQ basically didn't have PVP.

I have 2 60s, one on PVE and one on PVP. I hate my pvp server, it just gets really really annoying sometimes. Like when I was leveling my character and getting jumped or dying to a bunch of horde on the way to a raid and being late because of it. PVP still is an option on PVE servers in battlegrounds/duels/or just flagging yourself for some larger group type things. I like the idea of this much more. I will never play on a PVP server again. Too much random free-for-all uneven teams type stuff. It's pointless and aggravating to me so I'm going to avoid it from now on.

[Volkier]

Personally I would play on a normal server. What would be great however, is that the game would have a few "zones" which have PvP on. No I do not mean like dueling grounds, but actual zones which have enemies, quests etc. just with PvP enabled. Maybe even strategically positioned so that you will either have to go through a PvP zone to get from point A to point B, or take a longer route around, but with much less danger.
Just an idea I guess, but to me it is not the most important aspect of the game so I remain neutral.

(A /duel command or equilavent is most definately needed though)

[Lurz]

I don't think there is any game that wouldn't be better with pvp. I'm not sure if it's only rulesets, because I think the community and game develop around the ruleset. I also don't think it has to be designed consciously ahead of time. I think pvp is chaotic and dynamic and that inherent quality may be it's most appealing feature - it isn't the planned encounter that is set up by a developer, and so simulates real roleplay, real combat, real interaction.

[Elrar (of Silky Venom)]

I don't think there is any game that wouldn't be better with pvp. I'm not sure if it's only rulesets, because I think the community and game develop around the ruleset. I also don't think it has to be designed consciously ahead of time. I think pvp is chaotic and dynamic and that inherent quality may be it's most appealing feature - it isn't the planned encounter that is set up by a developer, and so simulates real roleplay, real combat, real interaction.


I agree with this philosophy. I used to be anti-pvp, then I actually tried it and suddenly realised, "wow, this is what i've been doing in pen and paper RPG's all along!"

Now granted, PvP does not mean a game is awesome either, its very dependent upon the ruleset given to the players, like the fun factor of a pen and paper game is decided by its rules, and the ways in which the storyteller and group adapts to it.

[hallower]

Sometimes I wonder if I'd enjoy PvP more if I didn't suck so horribly at it. =/

[Mack Bolan]

I love pvp really. I mean, i play on blue servers too, but i get so pissed at times, its not funny. And i would go play on rallos a bit then get mad, and then go back to the blue.. lol

I love PvP in UO, and EQ. I was never pking for the fun of it, but everytime i seen a halfling, i would try to pk him (always hated that race)

In WoW it was fun too. I played a while on WoW and loved the game, but it was too easy.

[Avelia]

PvP is something I like doing every now and then. It's not what I am looking for as a mainstay in a fantasy online game.

[Xhar Moondi]

PvP is something I like doing every now and then. It's not what I am looking for as a mainstay in a fantasy online game.
By the fact that it's just not what you are looking for, or by the fact that you just don't think it should be there?

[BuzWeaver]

Once I become a little more familiar with the game I may consider starting a char there. I enjoyed PvP in EQ and in WoW.

[Serinheart]

Rule-set would most definatly be a factor if I play PvP or not, I like PvP an all but the fast majority of the time, w/ out a reason to kill the player its just not as fun lol :twisted:

[Khaalis]

Personally PvP isnt my cup of tea at all, especially if the ruleset is standard Vanguard death rules (at current listing) and no clear objective. Specific instances of PvP can be interesting but it isnt what I personally prefer in an MMO. If I were to willingly go to a PvP server I would prefer it to involve some form of flag system, like SWG had. If you do not do anything to flag yourself as PvP, you cant be ganked be every Random_Enemy_01.

Why?

Because, currently, I was dragged onto a WoW PvP server due to most of my RL friends wanting to stick together on one server and the majority of them wanting to try something new (most came over from EQ non-PvP).

What I have found is that the game is more frustration and annoyance than anything else. It seems that the majority of what happens from day to day, is nothing but a large number of powergamers at level 60 griefing lower level players for kicks. You cant even travel through contested zone without being ganked at the travel point by someone 10+ levels higher who's camping the spot. Worse yet is the camping of the graveyards. There are days I have had to just log off because you cant even spawn long enough to get somewhere safe since there is someone camping your corpse and the graveyard.

JMHO. YMMV.

[Lochaber]

I've never really cared for PvP (servers) myself. It takes away from the enjoyment of the PvE experience. I wouldn't mind /duels, or arenas though ala EQ1. But other than that I'll stick with PvE.

[nubbins]

i wouldnt have it any other way besdies PvP ;)

[Rinni]

I voted for maybe, because i for one do not like PvP but, I do like to mess around at times with friends and do a bit of Pvp so I would like it to be as in EQ../dual only if you want to.

[Dillenger]

i will ONLY play on pvp servers ...

ok i lied.
but if i had the choice, i'll always pick pvp over pure pve

sure, being ganked and camped is annoying at times
but only when its happening to you ;D

[Skarlath]

Brad went on a posting spree last night, and he said a little about PvP. No specifics, but it sure sounds like they are putting a lot of thought into it. PvP servers might turn out to be the place to be! :)

[Spirit]

I'm all about the PvE. It's just a preference though and I hope PvP gets the attention it deserves - it does sound like they are gonna do that too, which is great stuff.

On a related note however, can anyone tell me what I am this week? I used to be a carebear, but then someone called me a bluebie.

Then I heard a PvP'er call another PvP'er a carebear, then a PvE'er called someone a griefer, then the PvE'er called a buebie a griefer and then someone said something about a cow.

<3 OVF :p

[Dillenger]

maybe you'd just be turned into the blue carebear :o

the rain clouddd oneeee
hehe

[Razorwire]

I have nothing against PvP games, but I have voted no. I don't like what PvP balancing does to PvE games. You can't have a character balanced vs a 5k HP PC and a 100k HP NPC it's just impossible. I want my PvE play fine tuned and I don't want to have to constantly look over my shoulder to make sure no one is sneaking up on me. I play these games for fun. I know that the PvPers say that is half the fun, but that isn't fun to me. Additionally I hate the smack talk that comes along with PvP, hated it in SWG, hated it in CS.

Though I have to say that the new version of Warhammer Online that Mythic is doing looks pretty good, RvR in the Warhammer fantasy realm. A game that is balanced for RvR from the beginning may be pretty cool, but then the mobs would have to be balanced against that as well.

[Dillenger]

how far along is warhammer online?
ive only checked the main mythic site and hardly had any info ;o

[Ollesk]

I would consider it depending how well it is done, pvp in WoW wasnt that bad, but my bro did it on a PvE server(i would play his toon and do BG cuz i just rocked at it lol). I'll have to see how everything plays out, if its not well, im happy with old school EQ and do PvE server =)

[Vandraad]

I had to vote maybe, but with definate leanings towards Yes for one very important reason. I HATE plat/gold farmers. Watching the economy of my server degrade to the point where money is meaningless has pissed me off to no end in the past and I want to be able to show my digust for those people by killing them at every opportunity.

GMs in the past have been overworked and understaffed to handle complaints. Community policing of farmers, griefers, cheaters and just plain *ssholes seems more and more desirable.

If the rulesets end up being agreeable, I'll go to a PvP server.

[Dahmedic]

If there is a PvP server I will have a character there. I may not spend the majority of my time on it, but I always enjoyed being able to hop on to Rallos Zek in EQ for a bit of PvP action from time to time, and as it turned out, at the end of my EQ career that is where I spent all my time.

[Azzikai]

I would have to say "no" to the PvP thing. There are times when playing games where I wish I could just kill the idiot that is spamming me, training me or generally being obnoxious (griefing, ganking and general idiocy are not "PK" player specific) but the feeling passes after a short outburst of profanity.

The whole idea of playing on a PvP server does interest me but I know I never will for one reason - I suck at it. I lack the "killer" instinct needed to survive in such an environment. Not to mention the attention span to constantly be watching out for my surroundings. Well, I suppose there might be a rule set that could entice me to join in but by the time that scenario is created I'll most likely be too lazy to try it :)

[Zato]

I voted yes, in my opinion pvp is what its all about. The best possible enemy is another player. There is no way an AI enemy can be more thrilling to fight. People are unpredictible and IMO more skilled than your average NPC. I find it a good way to show off, Blow off some steam, or to challenge yourself.

Currently i play on a PvP server in WoW and i love it. I probably woulda quit the game long ago if i was on a PvE server. World PvP is what made that game fun for me and my guild in the first place. Just the thought of not being able to kill another player makes me shudder. Of course things like corpse camping can become annoying but its all part of being on a PvP server or in a PvP environment you have to take the bad with the good. I hope this game handles PvP well because its honestly what i look forward to the most. I really enjoy advancing in content and building strong community relationships but the thrill of fighting other players is what motivates me the most to play. Just my two cents, i know a lot of people are very PvE and Goal oriented which is also cool, i just like having the options there. PvP can always work if there is risk and reward. Much like in lineage or UO where you COULD openly attack and kill other players if you chose. But then you run the risk of being flagged as a murderer meaning that others can kill you freely without penalty or that NPCs may hate you. Having choices like that is the best for me.

[Ollesk]

Nice post Zato, one thing that i noticed is that well you didnt say "ZOMG PvE sucks who ever does PvE is a whinny little school girl who cant handle a real challenge." But i'll agree i enjoy FPS games and the WoW PvP(i play my brothers druid sometimes) and it is really fun, depending on how well they do PvP i might have a character, but i think my main goal here is to be on a PvE server.

[Rune]

I voted maybe. Like others have said previously, it all depends on how Vanguard implements it.

PvP's positive aspects (in my opinion):

-The ability to attack someone when he is being a total jerk and deserves a trip to his bindpoint.
-Something to do when you're not raiding/questing/socializing/etc.

PvP's negative aspects:

-Griefers
For instance, my friend recently gets the game and is enjoying it so far. I take him through a low~mid level quest when some random high-level PK comes by and kills him. I'm high level as well and can finish him off, but my friend died and gets a bitter taste for the game. Things like that aren't cool IMO.
-Not being able to AFK without fear of being killed


I'd like to see a server that has safe areas, punishment for excessive griefing, and a solid PvP system that is more than just "Players versus Players". What I mean by that last part is something like Player City vs. Player City. Something more than just duels etc.

That being said, I'm creating my character where my friends go. If that means being on a PvP server, then so be it. :D

[Atoyota]

I never played EQ, but played UO from 97-2001.
That was PvP if ever there was. But I loved it, made the game real and always different.
Mind you, I was nearly always the victim, but it taught me to adjust my play for the expected risk.

What I hope for is a realistic pvp ruleset with full player corpse looting, as well as critters that loot also.
They will need to set up factional safe zones and prevent griefing within factions. (easily enough done).
Create a good faction reputation system also.
Allow internal factional guild wars "if" sanctioned by NPC leadership.
Maintain a balance between the 3 NPC factions so as to prevent Faction Wars from becoming lopsided. (difficult)
Also stiff penaltys for Unfactioned RED PK groups.
Meaning groups of players that have lost rep in all factions.
They should be allowed, but at high risk to themselves (stiffer death penalty/exp loss than normal).

PvP to me means end game player generated content.
With all of the above in place and additional things either not thought of, or mentioned here...
Would be a great game (for me).

Oh yeah, I voted yes :)

[Varguk]

I voted yes. I enjoy the rush you get from pvp combat. I guess it could be discribed as the same feeling a dedicated pver gets when engaging and beating a raid mob.

[Cril]

We voted maybe because like alot of reasons others have already posted. Our main concern is that we have pvp'd in AO and yes it was fun but we belong to an Org that is not really pvp oriented. A Guild that is pvp based and works to help all their members with ideas, tactics and stratigies would be great. But we also agree alot of pvp combat is just high levels killing all low levels making it impossible to get anywhere in the game. Unless you are in a supportive guild or on the ground floor of the server, pvp tends to hinder progression rather than be fun and a new dimension of the game.

Cril (Geadina 70 Monk, (ALT Satyrs 55 Druid) Lariul 70 Cleric)
Drop us a message if you recognize us!!

Guilds in order during EQ
Armor Mist Knights Guild Leader)
Mysticus (Guild Leader)
Shadow Congress (Member)
L'Malla (Member and best time we ever had!!!)

[Alodar]

I like a challenge. Therefore, my thoughts on PvP are summed up in one phrase:

Cooperation is more difficult than contention.

[Stewy]

I played Meridian59 on and off for its entire 5 years and beta. It was the only kind of PvP I liked. No rules. It had a penalty system to punish the killing of inoocents. Murderers have red names. Red names can't buy in shops if others are present. They can be attacked without repsial from the system. In other words, red names were "marked men", so to speak. There was a player elected Justicar that could pardon people for their crimes, so being red wasn't permanent. When M59 was popular there wer amny types of players, but in the end and today the game is broken down into Random Pkers and those who hunt the random pkers. There really isn't anyone in between.

Anyway, the PvP really was self governoring because it was no rules. If someone did something to make you mad - you killed them or attacked them. If they were in a big guild you could probably count on his/her buddies coming to hunt you down. If you were both in large guilds or both guildless you were on your own.

The only rule that they did make in the end was that random pkers were not allowed to RANDOM kill one person more than twice in a 24 hour period. Doing so would get you suspended. Getting killed more in a war or duel situation didn't count. Also there were tools for two guilds to declare war on each other and fight without going red.

Politics were very big . At times alliances of guilds would get almost the entire server fighting. Winners and losers of PvP wars would generally end in guilds disbanding or forcing reroles of key "hated" characters.

Oh also, death in M59 meant everything on your corpse was lootable by ANYONE. As M59 was not an item centric game but a skill centric game, this was generally only an annoyance, though older players would hae rare GM event items that they might lose if they died, and this of course happened on occasion.

In a game like EQ1 or Vsoh you can't have No Rules because it is level based and item centric which essentially and realistically takes skill out of the equation, thus the reason why I have no interest in PvP with Vanguard. To make PvP work in a level/item based game you have to have rules like level limit rules, faction rules, blah blah blah. What's the point? All the needed rules make PvP boring and pointless.

[Aethokh]

I voted yes. Ill be on any pvp server. Rules or no :D

[Oakenfall]

The game is designed first and formost as a PvE. I figure I won't ever have time to turn around and play PvP with all the content there will be. I love a good dungeon crawl with friends.

[Skarlath]

I'm hoping they will have things like a zoned off, marked area out at sea on PvE servers where players can enjoy some PvP. It could be out of the way of normal shipping routes so that the server remains well and truly a PvE server just with the chance to have a little bit of fun should you be so inclined.

I always like the idea of being able to dip in and out of PvP. I want to play and progress on a PvE server, but be able to use my character in some PvP (other than 1v1 duels) so I can enjoy PvP at all levels rather than having a low level character on a PvP server who I rarely play.

[Varcan]

I played many mmo before WoW, but after my RP-PvP server exp. in the game, i can never go back to PvE. Now I feel as if there is no realism in the game if im not watching my back for a rogue of some kind. It just feels wierd if the monsters im fighting are literally all i have to worry about. Its like am cheating to join a PvE server now, itleast thats how it feels. As others have stated, PvP can add more layers to a players exp. and it can also add difficulty in reaching your goals.

However, I currently dont see how PvP fits into this game in its current state with the lore basically saying all the races are in a state of peace. Right now I would be more for PvP being put in as a festival or something, where players can participate in guild vs. guild CtF, or 3 on 3s, or 1 on 1s, etc. It could stay within the lore of the game, and still provide competion. More active PvP could be released upon expasion with a new layer to the lore aswell.

My vote-PvP

[aelysa]

PVP for sure!

[Martell]

I am most interested in Vanguard from an RP aspect. Immersion (to use the buzzword)is paramount. With that said certainly a PvP server would be desirable if the game-world's lore/background dictates that there is tension between different PC factions. It only makes sense that if a group of your city-state's sworn enemies are capering about outside the ramparts that you are going to have a go at them.

[Keygan]

I voted yes on prop. pvp? I like PvP and with a guild like this we won't have to watch our backs much. With the diplomacy and all i think the PvP will be awsome. Having an occasional beef is part of an rpg, to me atleast.
I play on a PvE server now on WoW, but i played both servers (PvP/PvE) on DAoC. It is more fun i think.

[Strokke]

I'm an adrenaline junkie so PvP is a must :)

[Danai Perficio]

Voted Maybe
Depends on how well elaborated is the PvP system

[Kullall]

I'd consider it, but then I think back to exactly how much fun I had when I played EQ with no PVP, and how little fun I have in WoW with PVP. It just depends on how it's implemented I suppose, but I doubt it.

[armsakimbo]

I voted maybe. Feyshtey's comments back on the first page pretty well sum up my feelings as well. In particular, his final sentence describes perfectly my disinterest in open-PvP MMORPG play:
PvP just for the sake of PvP isn't a good enough reason for me.

[Sinnes]

I will play on an PvP ruleset server, it doesn't matter what the ruleset are. Im hoping for an Team pvp enviroment tho.

[Sinx]

Me and my guild will be joing a pvp server at release if there is one. so i put pvp YES! i love too pvp i love being competitive aswell tho i dont no if my class will be good at it as of yet. a necromancer but intill then we will see =)

[Jaymend]

I never did like PvP...so I'm gonna say no on this one.

[Soda]

I would love to play a PVP server, If this game does not have PVP, I'm sure alot of people are going to be turn off to it, And Puls If they do end up, and wanted to be crazy.. put a Iron Man server on there, I would be right there >< Scream my head off, playing that server.

[thuvia]

i've never really been big into PvP. i'd rather play with people and against the game, so no, i probably won't play on the vanguard PvP server.

[Jaon]

I never liked PVP, I don't like the idea of competition between players. Never did, never will. And I have been playing those games for more than 10 yeras now

[Iadien]

I most definately will be on a PVP server.

[Cla-Wi]

No thanks, I enjoy some good RP'n in a player city, perhaps a good player event. I can't smash things/people and hear, "I Roxorz, u teh pwned" all day long. I prefer to keep the RP in MMORPG, and the button-mashing on consoles. In all honesty I can't completely accept anything but a mixed server, but I know I'll have to and that's fine, just don't expect me to like it.

[sporkydonkey]

I voted maybe as well. I want classes with defined roles. This usually leads to poor pvp balance.

I like large scale team pvp. I like dueling. I guess what I don't like is being at someone else whim when I want to relax and explore or gather resources.

I played on the EQ RZ server with a Woodelf Rogue. That was rough for a long time. I got him to 50 and then decided I couldn't dedicate lots of time to raiding with two high level toons on seperate servers. However, I only logged in to play him when I felt I could deal with the griefing. Rest of the time I stuck to my carebear server.

[Demmic]

I want to play Vanguard. With any kind of open PvP, it's not really an mmorpg anymore in my opinion. I can play street fighter any time I want. I play MMO's for the depth, the relationships, and the complexity.

I probably should just avoid talking about my thoughts on PvP here the same way I do at the OVF. ;)

I couldn't have said it any better.

[Seasiu Laitya]

Just thought I'd add my tuppence here.

I will be playing on a PvP server this time round, since I missed the whole Zek experience in EQ1. I started PvPing with WoW, and I didn't really like it much there.

What I don't want is 1-on-1 balancing. In WoW that got crazy, and there will always be someone complaining anyhow.

Nor do I want twitch gameplay like Quake. MMORPG isn't an FPS - people who like Counterstrike may not like MMO combat at all.

I'm expecting to join a team-based PvP server (like the good/ evil/ neutral split in EQ). Course I'll probably try them all, but I'm expecting team PvP to be more my thing. I do want cross-team communication. I think WoW's no talking to the opposite faction does more harm than good. Ideally, there should be at least 3 factions, who all hate each other :)

I'd like to see player policing and reputation being the main mechanism to stop griefing/ rampant PKing. I don't think we need (many) hard-coded limitations. I don't think people "deserve" to level up on a PvP server - so I'm not against killing lowbies. Doesn't mean I'd do it myself (much), but I think it's valid as a strategy. This applies more to team PvP than FFA PvP, since on a FFA server you really have no reason to kill lowbies at all.

Hope that doesn't make me a 'rabid' PvPer ;) And yes, I'm likely to the one getting ganked and "pwned" at first, because my PvP skills aren't great :) But I'm persistant, and I expect to play on a PvP server 99% or 100% of the time.

[Age of Sages]

I'd much rather be on a RP server, if it has a PvP component to it that's fine by me. I would prefer a consentual PvP though.

[zamar]

I want a PvP server to play in it and have the opportunity to challenge my skills against others aand have the thrill to be always in danger. I would like of course some nice PvP rules like EVE. And please no loot from PC cos that push players to gank lowies.

[Painthane]

I've never been fond of the PvP as it relates to D&D style games, it just dosen't seem a good fit. The idea that you take a group of people with diffrent abilities into a dungeon to compete a quest (All the Archtypes, Tank, Healer, CC, Nuker, Rogue)makes sence. But how each class stands on it's own vs. every other class brings up alot of balance isssues.

That being said, I may try a PvP server in Vanguard, depending on the rules...

[Dorfeater]

Yeah, PvP and me are meh. I'll duel someone, I'll goto the arenas and whatnot occasionally, but to engage in PvP elsewhere. Nah not for me.

Funny, Im probably one of the few veterans of UO that doesn't like PvP.

Although some of my best memories are running thru the forests in UO waiting to be ganked. The fear, the adrenaline, it was a great feeling. But I never really openly engaged in PvP.

*EDIT* Old school UO, before they made the facet changes bleh. Those changes took alot of the fun out of the game.

[Slide]

I dont think gear / level based games are well suited to pvp, especially open pvp - and class based games have to be balanced around either pvp or pve primarily. As VG is at its heart a PVE game, I cant see how it will be balanced for PVP at all - although mass scale combat tends to balance that out somewhat.

I'd PVP happily in realm vs realm / battleground type situations (and enjoyed that in DAOC and WOW) - but wouldn't play on an open PvP server.

Edit: If I want to one on one PVP i'll play Quake thanks.

[Slide]

Funny, Im probably one of the few veterans of UO that doesn't like PvP.

Although some of my best memories are running thru the forests in UO waiting to be ganked. The fear, the adrenaline, it was a great feeling. But I never really openly engaged in PvP.

*EDIT* Old school UO, before they made the facet changes bleh. Those changes took alot of the fun out of the game.

The gankfests in UO are pretty much what killed that game for me. I loved the world and systems they had in place, but there was way too much "CORP POR" by bonedood and platedewd for a lot of people.

[Quasimojo]

I enjoy PvP competition, but in games like Battlefield or Unreal Tournament. Those games are made for it and their general premise is designed around it.

I have absolutely zero interest in PvP in MMORPG's, however. That's just not what I play them for. I play a fantasy MMORPG to play the role of a character in a fantasy setting. A bunch of people running around killing anyone they can just for xp, bragging rights or whatever just detracts from the immersion of the game for me.

There are games out there that do PvP better such as Shadowbane, DAoC, Planetside. However, they all fall pretty short in the PvE department and don't offer a very deep RPG experience. I believe it is best to pick PvP or PvE and design the game for it. Trying to successfully cater to both has just proven to be too much to expect.

[Ishmah]

I am surprised that this poll is so evenly split.

The number of responses is enough to give a true indication of the wider gaming community I believe. (I have no statistical background but I remember reading about sampling and the actual number needed to give a true indication of a pool was a very surprisingly low percentage.) Even if this is not true it is an interesting result so far.

Those that have no interest in PvP will go to PvE and vice versa.
So what of the people who are not sure?

They will have to make a choice or make a different character to join the opposite player style server. By splitting their time they are making it harder to make significant progress on either play style server.

/sigh It's such a hard choice. :(

[Dorfeater]

You're right Ishmah.

My suggestion to all the "not sure" people, try them both and find out which you like better. Thats really all you can do. Just like with the classes. I know the classes that I want to try when the game comes out... and I have no idea which one I will like best.

[Midsummer]

PvP isn't really my bag.

I did some PKing when I played MUDs, but I used sneaky and wiley ways back then. Frex; I bought pets, giving them the same name as my PK character, and placed them in PvP enabled rooms. I spied on who was coming to kill "me" (i.e. my pet) and beat them to the punch, as it were. muahaha. I got on with most of my victims in RL, however :) Anyway, I had a lot of time to think tactics back then, nowadays I can't be bothered with it and I'd want to be good, not merely mediocre.

[Orlandu]

I definitely think PvP servers in most MMO's offer a relatively unique game experience. On a good server, you will develop tight relationships just to survive. On a poor server, you will likely experience very little fun for various reasons.

I can definitely understand that PvP is not everyone's cup of tea, and I think it is great that Sigil has recognized that.

[psychokitty]

I'm strictly a PVE soloer, very antisocial and very noncombatant, and looking very much forward to the diplomacy sphere as a result. (now that's roleplaying)

[kraeggenzkull]

would prefer pvp if its avaliable

[vitakorpen]

Voted Yes.

Pvp is a blast. I love that sense of danger you get. Atm i am playing WoW. i made the mistake of playing on a Rp server (basicly a pve) and its just not as much fun as i had playing on Shadowbane. Someone ganks you? no big deal you mark them and the hunt commences. Its the thrill of the hunt that hooks me the most. and the on the edge of your seat enjoyment. besides the amount of pkers vrs really cool people is usually relatively low. So i dont mind being ganked every now and again.

[c0mbustion]

No way, I like Fozzik said early on,
Depth and meeting good people is what I play a MMO for.

Not hey, lets go hang out and harass someone tring to enjoy the game!

[Tar~Palantir]

If I wantt PvP, I will open up call of duty 2. I play MMO's for a deeper and more meaningful gaming experience.

Besides, I can see he PvP server now...Hordes of druids and sorcerers competing for supremacy.

[wyrd33]

I'm hardcore PVP. Even if it's not balanced, I'll play.

[Mad Erik]

I've never been a PvP guy, but I might consider trying it out. Usually I prefer games to be either PvP or PvE from the ground up. For instance, I love playing the Battlefield games and shooting the bejeebers out of folks, but I prefer cooperation and teamwork in Everquest.

I admit I've been curious. I've just heard lots of horror stories about ganking and griefing. With an uneven playing field, PvP could be highly annoying. If everyone has the same equipment, health, etc., then it's a question of skill and luck, like in Battlefield. But if a 60 necro can squish a 2 warrior just because he feels like being an anus, I don't think that'll be much fun. A lot has to do with how PvP is implemented I suppose.

I'll probably make a character on a PvP server just to try it out. :)

[Azmo]

I have played a bunch of MMOs. Some definitely handle PvP better than others. Planetside obviously, DAoC as well is an obvious PvP choice.

I tried playing on Rallos Zek in EQ and was able to get a Ranger to level 4 before I was killed. Then every time I tried to log back in, I would be killed, over and over. Not fun, but not game-wrecking as there was PvE options.

When WoW came about, I tried PvE with every class and played there to learn the mechanics and get a feel for it. Then I switched to PvP and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I did not expect to enjoy the looking over my shoulder feeling, but I found it gave the game another thrill level. I focused on quests and leveling and let it go, I wasn’t really looking to PK anyone, but was ready to defend myself.

Eventually, I started hunting players within 3 levels of my level. I self-policed my PK habits, but only because I wanted to derive more satisfaction from the game then killing noobs. My choice, entirely, I don’t blame others if they were 10 levels higher and killed me, that is the nature of that game.

Now, I have started playing CoH again (and have CoV). The deal there is that the Villain city and the Hero city are games in their own right, and each ‘City’ is separate but they share contested ‘suburbs’. You know these are the PvP zones when you enter them and there are PvE missions there, but the added threat of Villain/Hero interaction adds to it as well. This is a good way of handling it, saves the devs the Every Class = Every Class argument and I must say it is fun.

Personally, I enjoy PvP when I engage in it, but have my own way of doing it. I answered Maybe, and took a lot of time to decide that. I am eager to see how Vanguard handles it, many of the pre-release fans that post here seem to be good gamers and the quality of the gamer will always make a server better, ruleset or not.

[Adorakor]

Hail


As my first post I found it fitting to reply to this thread. If its not PVP its not for me. I love the PVP in DAoC (actually its RVR) and sometimes you can get a good 1 vs 1 or an even fight with your group and another. I dont much care for ganking lowbies trying to level and I wont participate in said gankage. matter of fact I'm more likeley to camp the lowbie waiting for someone to kill him so I can gank that person :) Looking foward to game release as I have been following it for quite some time, Jan 05.

[Shelby]

My only problem with PvP in Vanguard is that, well Vanguard isn't made for PvP. I'm scared we're going to launch with some untested, unbalanced, wanker PvP server. I mean 7 months into beta testing already and the only world from developers is that PvP will be one of the LAST systems added. That doesn't bode well for a system that requires a great deal of balance.

[Jayc]

PvP has had alot of quality PvE also in the past.. we will see on the functionality

[Feral]

To me, PvP is a more realistic enviorment to play in. I guess it depends on how its implmented though.

Short answer: Yes

If it will a straight up full PvP then it will get boring. It will be a race to the highest level with the goal of being the one to gank others or to protect oneself from being ganked. If its more controlled, I would be truly more interested. In a fantasy setting, walking down the road someone COULD just walk up to you and kill you. But of course, there were repercussions and as long as these are built in to the game then PvP will be much more enjoyable.

[Shadowsilk]

I went to the pvp servers as soon as pk went live in EQ. I moved to Vallon Zek when it went live-the team concept much better in my opinion and gave 'alliances' between the four factions that leant itself to natural role playing.

We raided each others main cities, the human faction raiding Neriak was an great run and almost impossible to accomplish-that is a very well fortified and positioned city. Freeport, not so much :)

Guild wars were great fun.

And the element of standing against, and besting, someone of your own level and skills is over the top. Like chess come to life when it is done correctly.
A little know fact I think, is that most guilds on pk had strict rules of gameing and enforced them. We did not just run wild. Except on Rallos of course-that was a chaos rules server from the begining, every man for himself.

PK'ers were regarded poorly by the rest of the population and usually ignored by the GMs. Untill they assigned a GM to us permanently, one that actually played pk and knew what it was all about that is. For as long as it lasted.
In the beginning, pk was fun, lively and entertaining.

The Pk'ing on EQ today is a farce. It has nothing to do with honor, ability or even fun. It is a pinball game. Run about killing everyone you can be they 'AFK' or 'LD' or 20 levels below you-kill 'em anyway and get those points so you can get your name on a list. I saw this when I went to 'visit' the merged pvp server ZEK and it is a waste IMO.
Bah!

I left pk originally when had I encounted another my level, in the E.Commons tunnel and he was backed up by a 30's level healer. (30 was high at that point ;)). I could not kill my advisary, as he was continually healed by his friend.
When I realized that eternal healing had became the norm, I hung up my sword and took my self to a care bear and satisfied myself with a more mundane existance. It was fun in a differnt way. Not as exciting, but I got to quest and tradeskill more.

I was one of the first female pk'ers on VZ. There were not that many of us. Will that skew your poll a bit :D
So yes, I would try Pk here. But, I will reserve judgement until I actually have done so.

[sartus]

it all depends on the ruleset

[Saerain]

I would play on a PvP server designed to be either a continental conflict (Thestra versus Qalia versus Kojan versus Thestra) or each race for themselves. Preferably something more intricate, but those are two basic concepts that work fairly well for me.

[Rashgar]

Hello, my name is Rashgar.

Long time reader, first time Poster.

PVP for me PLZ.

Did EQ on blue 2000 to 2004, did EQ2 never went to PVP on EQ2. I am currently looking for a game where I can start fresh with a new playerbase. I want something different, so will be going PVP to spice up the grind.

I used to PVP on a Mud Called Dark and Shattered lands. Nothing more exciting than hunting down people on a text based game. Looking to rekindle that lost feeling.

Rashgar

[Skarlath]

Welcome, Rashgar.

I'm quite impressed at how the three options are extremely balanced! Though I suspect that posters who are in some way inclined towards PvP may be more likely out of the entire memberlist to visit the thread and take the time to vote.

It's good to know that Sigil will have some strong support behind its PvP server(s) at launch. :)

[Sharariebrum]

I for one would love the chance at PvP. I play SWG but no more after the NGE. And this is where they should alow PvP in the game in a certain rule set on ALLL yes ALLLLLL!!! servers.

I loved the fact that Star Wars had MANY MANY things right until Sony RAN THE GAME TO HELL.

PvP yes with a faction or OVERT/COVERT (like the faction status in SWG rebel/imp) status type flag.
This would make it posible to be ready to say yes kill me I want to fight you today.
Or covert nah im off duty want to lvl and play with my guild not worry about being ganked by some jerk in my play.
I can PLan my killing days Had a bad day, and want to kill others. Go talk to my local Captain of the Gaurd and say I want to fight others make it happen he says ok,
Or I want to take leave and not be PvPed today.

But the thing that they wanted to Implement but didnt do it well and well didnt exsist was a BIG PURPUSE to it all.
I want to see Battlefeilds that you have to fight to have control over and depending on control or pionts or whatever it has a efect on the winning class.

It could be More loot/exp/money/bonus events done by GM's. But there needs to be a Reason for the PVP not just HA I WIN!! thats not fun and never will be.


I would go on about the many aspects that I hope make it in the game but seeing as this is a pvp topic thread I will leave it at that.

I beleive this is the best way to do it as it will give those who never thought about PvP to actully see battles at major cities if guilds chose there to fight. And some will see it as a fun way to spend an Evening of play fighting other PLAYERS not the game AI. And can get more enjoyment out of the game that way.

[Skellen]

If all my gaming friends would then I would love to, but the split is 50/50 so we'll be doing PVE. I'm fine with that though; in the end, the only thing making games like this last so long is the community and your friends you play it with.

[Optic]

If they made a decent (read 'old style' - I grew up on total XP reset PvP in MuD's if you initiated combat, and lost) PvP server - yeah, I may consider that. I don't like 'modern' PvP, as it's pretty pointless.

ie, where you can gain/lose small to large chunks of xp, via PvP (the gain/loss being based off the difference in levels - so from small to large gains/losses - even several entire levels). But, alas, no level loss, so it's just not on the cards...

I miss the old days where being a known PK'er put a bounty on your head - and you had to be really Good at fighting, to survive...

[Skarlath]

Surely that 'old style' just encourages ganking - people would only attack if they were sure to win, and so most fights would just be preying on weaker characters who never stood a chance.

[Kvaser]

I love PvE servers, but it's fun to have PvP arenas/battlegrounds where people can PvP on there own terms. It's a fun supplement but hopefully in Vanguard there will be so much to do on a PvE server that I will never want to PvP :D

[pit fiendish]

PVP or PVE - the answer is a question of motivation.

once your quests are exhausted and your content is no longer exciting, are you the type of person that is able to continue leveling and getting new items for the soul purpose of becoming strong enough to level more and get more items? I need a reason thats not recursive.

On a pvp server, complex player interaction, attitudes and politics come into play. You actually get to use your character, which you have worked so hard on: to protect the area in which your guild is playing, assault and take over areas that your enemies are in, and you are challenged by something other than prescripted, predictable, drone-like game mechanics.

in the days of everquest, entire raids were wiped out in difficult places to get to for the sake of pvp. Imagine several groups wiped out in the plane of fear, trying to get thier bodies and being pissed off because the opposing faction would not let them in... i remember being on the recieveing side and you know what? Thats motivation to become stronger.

Vanguard has the reputation for being a harsh game with stiff exp penalties, long travel times, and corpse runs. That's why we play it. A lot of us thrive off of being challenged. PVP is flat out more challenging than PVE because it adds another dangerous eliment that players must prepare themselves for. More dangers like this make a more robust game. For that reason, if you do not play on a pvp server, you are missing out.

[Shelby]

I am just curious about how PvP friendly our readers are. How many of you would consider playing Vanguard on a PvP server?I'd be more interested to know what has sparked this curisity. Would I be interested in playing Vanguard PvP. You bet. Unfortunately though the ship has sailed in some respects. Vanguard is a PvE game. Even with PvP added, which I know it will be, much of the game will be about grinding out PvE for better gear. Unless they can offer some radically different PvP servers with enchansed game mechanics changed to focus more on PvP I don't see Vanguard being a big PvP game.

That said, the success of PvP in Vanguard will be determined by the ability of Sigil to create meaningful PvP. This can be done by putting forth the same amount of creative effort towards PvP as they have with PvE.

Would I play on a PvP server. Yes. Would I keep playing once I started. Well that is up to Sigil.

[Mac_XVII]

Vanguard is a PvE game. Even with PvP added, which I know it will be, much of the game will be about grinding out PvE for better gear

This is just an EXAMPLE I don't care if it is factual, just so long as you understand the concept

Think about it. (My apologies in advance for the long /rant. Not directed at you specifically Shelby, I just quoted you for inspiration! :D )

Player Housing; limited space to build.
PvP: You want room? You MAKE room!
PvE: You stand there as a late coming n00bile crying about there isn't any space to build and you want a mansion like everyone else has. So patience wears thin, you break down and go check E-bay. Congrats, you just destroyed the in game economy.

In PvP people would be less prone to hit the "cap" on housing. Say somebody buys out the land plots, and tries selling it on E-bay or other such intolerable crap. You can go destroy their stuff. If they want it back, they'll have to fight you for it. If they try to sell it online and it's been destroyed, they can be sued for not completing a binding sales agreement. PvP also eliminates the "Uniform" end game, meaning that those players who always race to get the best of end game will have to consider in PvP the time / cost of building and rebuilding and rebuilding that mansion is going to be rough! I wager that will provide a great variety of construction, from el-cheapo shanty shacks to the deluxe presidential suites!

"Go ahead, build something nice so I can smash it to pieces!"

This in turn encourages larger guild grouping for protection, preservation, raid success, etc. That in turn becomes HIGHLY competative to things like IGE, who has to spend money on Labor, research, etc. They just won't be able to compete with a large Honest Player guild. Besides, how many people do you think want a chance to PK some IGE bastards?! :twisted:

[Shelby]

I can pretty much guarantee in an item based economy items = power. In PvP Power = Win. Ergo, people will grind PvE for the best PvP items. Unless of course they can do like WAR and give items and rewards for PvP.

[Skarlath]

Player Housing; limited space to build.
PvP: You want room? You MAKE room!
PvE: You stand there as a late coming n00bile crying about there isn't any space to build and you want a mansion like everyone else has. So patience wears thin, you break down and go check E-bay. Congrats, you just destroyed the in game economy.

Ah yes, but in a game designed to be a PvP game, player skill is likely to be more important. The designers will have decided that they dont want instant predictability in every fight and so your effectivity cannot rely on character development to any large degree. Everyone should have *some* chance of killing anyone else.

However in a PvE game that features PvP, the content relies on constant increases in character power - player skill has much less to do with success. And so you would STILL stand their crying like the late coming noobie that you are, because if you even spit in the direction of someone's house then they are going to smash you - after all if they own a house and you don't their character is likely to be more developed than yours.

And so you go onto ebay and buy an awesome character so that you can smash peoples houses.

I guess the moral of the story is don't be late in the first place. :)

[Dillgaar]

I still can't believe how close this vote has remained :eek:

[Criminal]

There comes a time when you hit the wall in PvE.

PvP is a good allieviation from this.

[Ribbit]

I'd be more interested to know what has sparked this curisity. Would I be interested in playing Vanguard PvP. You bet. Unfortunately though the ship has sailed in some respects. Vanguard is a PvE game. Even with PvP added, which I know it will be, much of the game will be about grinding out PvE for better gear. Unless they can offer some radically different PvP servers with enchansed game mechanics changed to focus more on PvP I don't see Vanguard being a big PvP game.

That said, the success of PvP in Vanguard will be determined by the ability of Sigil to create meaningful PvP. This can be done by putting forth the same amount of creative effort towards PvP as they have with PvE.

Would I play on a PvP server. Yes. Would I keep playing once I started. Well that is up to Sigil.

Of course this really is the big problem. PvP doesn't take at all well to being 'overlaid' onto a PvE game.

What you end up with is a 'grief fest' rather than PvP, due to all the badly thought out (for PvP) 'character development' rewards (overpowered nonsense that takes out the fun fights and only drives away most of the other players, because there is no FUN in all that!).

I suppose I should make it clear that I'm a long time PvP'r rather than griefer, and as a PvP'r I really don't mind dying in PvP as long as I'm getting the fun fights - so I'm probably no different to the vast majority.

It would be doable, if all the PvE 'rewards' were unusable/had no influence outside of PvE areas (so that means separate PvP areas to fight over, which would mean they don't have to be on separate servers - which worked well enough in DAoC, for example). This means powerful items and abilities being deliberately kept in serious check right from the word go.

Yes this will more than likely keep most of the '1337 dewds' out of the game, but the game won't suffer for that (it'll probably gain substantially in playerbase terms and the game's continuing health).

Handled right, the PvE'rs will be able to get out into PvP areas and have some fun with it too, rather than just being 'cattle to the slaughter' and essentially insta-killed with outrageous items and abilities (we've all seen far too much of that in so many other games, surely?). If you're going to die fighting in a PvP area, then dying should be enough fun that you rush back for more - time and time again, and as you get better at it, so your wins start to climb.

So my vote is, if the PvP is handled correctly, and with enough common sense, an emphatic yes.

If outrageous PvE rewards dominate the PvP, and turn it all into just another childish 'grief fest' then I won't be playing.

If it's only PvE, then much as I enjoy PvE now and again, I won't be playing the game either.

So I'll probably be waiting for some pretty concrete clarification of just how all this is going to progress, before becoming a customer for the game (I am very definitely interested though).

And first post here and hi to you all. :eek:

[Diabolu]

hell yeah! pvp all the way! :D

[LordTakith]

HELL YES!! PvP is why i got into these kind of games I like it I love it I want some more of it.

[Shayalyn]

I'm just really not into PvP. I like the idea of arenas or consensual duels, but playing the Lineage II beta for a time spoiled me on PvP forever. There's nothing fun about getting repeatedly ganked in the newbie zone just because some level 20 griefer thinks killing someone 15 levels lower than him makes him uber. :rolleyes:

[Zastrick]

I find pvp done correctly enjoyable, but there are so many factors that can go wrong to make pvp a source of misery. I prefer faction based pvp over free for all; I think it's silly for people to be able to kill anyone and everyone for no reason. Gear gap is an issue as well. If a person that raids is guaranteed to beat the crap out of someone that only groups, then it makes pvp less fun.

Pvp in a primarily pve game concerns me because class structures that are ideal for pve might be overpowered in pvp. For example lets say that in pvp a ranger will never win against a warrior. Rangers complain and warriors get nerfed so rangers have a chance. Now warriors are severely less desirable in pve. Or the opposite could happen and rangers could get buffed instead; now they are far more desirable than other mêlée dps classes.

My opinion is that tacking pvp on a pve game as an after thought is inevitably going to cause trouble and that it is better for the game as a whole to be either pve exclusively or for the game to be built around pvp. Without knowing anything about how pvp would work, I would have to say that for the time being I expect to play pve.

[Xeos Moonfear]

To be clear I voted yes because I have a good budy who I am managing to get interested in Vanguard and he is very pvpish. I myself don't care for it much.

[tankain]

If you have something like the take one item policy set up i will.

[tankain]

Its got to be the 4lvl rule that eq has tho.I dont like pvp in wow at all or like the game that much .

I played on rz eq and iam hopeing for a similar server.

[kuyzat]

I really dont like PvP in RPG MMOGs. I dont even like PvP servers to exist, even if I am not going to play in them.

If you balance classes to be suitable for PvP they tend to become dull and too similar in PvE.

A PvE balanced class can be totally gimped in some aspects because the other classes will compensate for what this one lacks. And what other PvE classes lack, this one will provide. It creates interdependence. Solo capable classes also tend to be more independent and hence, less interesting as group PvE classes.

Having said this, I believe there can be very interesting PvP centric MMORPGs but they need to be designed with that in mind from the begining and exclusively for that. Interesting as they may be, they are not my cup of tea.

I hope VG doesnt try to be both PvP and PvE. It will only become feeble at both.

[LordTakith]

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[B'leto]

I will create a toon on a PvP server for when I'm in the mood, but it won't even be 50% of my gaming time.

[Durien]

I voted maybe just because I will prolly play an alt on a PvP server...but I'm mostly a PvE kinda guy.

[Xanham]

I do like PvP, so does my guild. However, since Vanguard game design isn't focused on PvP and there are hardly any infos about PvP server rulesets, that's a "maybe" for me.

In the end the entire guild has to decide *shrug*

[Tybalt]

Yes, because it makes the game more exciting despite cutting down on what I can do solo :-/

[KidHavoc]

I love PvP, i think its what makes a game fun, watchig your back, know that someone could attack you at any second, only problem... you dont know what second they are gonna! :P

[Mzion]

I want to play pvp mainly but only if its done properly, but it will becuase ive got faith in sigil ;)

Either way pvp adds more flavor to the game, as there is more threat and reality to it. It can be frustrateing at times, but it makes me enjoy my char even more if ive got the ability to kill someone who pissed me off

[trevana]

PvP server for me. But would really like to see the PvP before hand and even test it out. If PvP will be in certain areas/arena or whatever on PvE then PvE server with PvP options I guess.

Only reason I say that is I did like some of the PvP in WoW just it got old fast being in a lv 30 zone and dealing with bored lv 60s just running you over and camping you for hours on end.

[Eburk]

Wow, this is an amazingly close poll for so many members...it shows you how hard of a time devs must have with trying to decide how to do things. Having such a varied player base as far as interests go must make things rough.

Anyway, I plan to wait and see how PvP is handled...and if it's a system my guild accepts, then chances are I will be playing on a PvP server. Should be a fun time :)

[Juliette]

I agree I voted maybe. It really depends where my friends like to play. I prefer PVE but I've done PVP in the past. Risk vs reward is something, too.

[Dakeyras]

I vote: maybe.

I will go where the guild goes. If that means a PvP server, then so be it. Left to my own devices, I would choose an RP server regardless of whether that meant PvP or PvE strict rulesets.

[blackstaff1]

I am really hoping that there is at least one perma death server.

I don't really care about PvP unless gaining points really MEANS something, like improved skills, or access to more potent items, recipes etc...

[StudMuffin14]

I am going PvP. It dosen't matter about the rules.. i love the stuff

[Ankriston]

no thanks, not for me. i dont mind pvp, but i hate being forced into it. and if ur on a pvp server, there are times when youdont have a choice. also i dont love the mindset of most people on pvp servers.

[Melios]

I'm not setting foot on a PVP server. I'll just stick to PVE servers.

[Tarkas]

I finally voted, Maybe. I liked the option of duels and the arenas in EQ. But i want to experience the game, not worry all the time about someone ganking me.

[Mare]

Surely would have voted yes - as I am playing since 1999 on an EQ-PvP server despite the "unbalanced state" - Vallon Zek had the Dark side playing vs the light and the thrill of pvp adds a lot to MMORGS inparticular in the politics part and allowed us to form alliance to defend from our swamps&dungeons ... or the creepy feeling when entering a hostile town to buy some reagents or mass fighting (not Training!) for a PVE-Raidtarget...I prefere PvP with a "fair" rule set and not a completly unmoderated FFA ... I have had short visits on unmoderated servers from diverse games where players didnt understand the challange&fun to win vs an equal or even "stronger" and just prefered ganking&training.

But I have faith that that wont be the case for Vanguard. In my visits in DAOC I enjoyed the realm idea. I after having played EQ-PvP for more then 7 years - WoW even with pvp felt stale and boring - yes I did take my time to level up to 60 in WOW before I decided to stopping... - I still play casually my EQ Shadowknight - but usally only for endgame progression raids and hardly ever for pvp as eq game mechanics make "fair" pvp almost impossible or it just takes too long to be fun - and ganking lower geared players is not my kind of fun... for Group-PVP I currently enjoy playing GvG in Guildwars alot - which is a like fanatasy base tactical counterstrike and fortunatly better balanced then any other pvp game i have played - top100 matches vs other guild are extremly challanging & fun regardless whether you win or lose...

There is a huge difference between PVP & PKing and Ganking/griefing & training players...
and lastly friendly duellfights in an Arena in EQ1 should not be mistaken as "PvP" experience either...

I have faith that Brad&rest will try to include a "good" pvp ruleset in Vanguard and regardless of the system try out Vanquard like I did with all the other "fanatasy based MMORGs" - but I am sure that without thrill/challanges of playing on a PvP-Vallon Zek server in EQ I would have most certainly stopped playing EQ years ago and switched full time to DAOC when it came out. I still treasure many memorable pvp moments with honerable enimies ...

Splorge lvl70 1200AA Shadowknight EQ PVP-Zek
Yoggi lvl70 Wizard EQ Twinkstatus
Marem lvl70 Enchanter EQ (cancelled)

Mare Lustig GW www.Capita-cerberi.de

plus many unforgotten chars/guilds/moments from early
UO, AC ,L2,DaoC and even WoW...

[Baltazaar]

I voted No Chance.

As an EQ1 veteran from the start and now playing on a WoW PvP server I have to say the maturity of the players make a big difference to the quality of PvP.

Good PvP is awesome, what a rush, fighting someone of similar lvl and skill, using every trick in the book to win, is great. Groups of bored immature players with lvl 60 chars who go camp newbie grounds is no fun at all (as a newbie at least).

I am all for letting people have the utmost freedom in an MMO (as in EQ1) but I would not join a PvP server by choice again, the content is enough fun for me.

Roll on VG! (can't wait).

Balt

[edit] of course VG players will be more mature (on average) than WOW players so my hopes for PvP would be high, but i'm over it after WoW.

[pariah]

I voted yes...of course, I play EvE online, so I know how fun pvp can be if implemented well.

[Melancholy_Disaster]

i voted for a maybe, like ohthers have stated b4 me, it depends on the ruleset. For i despised the rampand level 60's greifing all the poeple in their repestive starting zones. THe PVP will have to more deep than simlpy killing the other guy simply cuz he's waving a differnt flag.

[Adam]

Outside of arenas and some occasional one on one dueling I have no interest in PvP- let alone making a character on a PvP server.

[Metal]

I wouldnt have my main on a PvP server, but I would play PvP with one of my ALT's. Only cuz I can't think of anything funnier then having a group of you and your guildies running around killing oblivious Noobs and taking their stuff and thats because I am immature and enjoy crude humor.:D

-I voted yes

"Hulk angry, need smash."

[Herb]

i voted yes..i like duels and guild battles..or just a zone that is pvp..

[Naurki]

as a UO felluca resident from day one, I voted yes. I have experienced pvp at its finest and at its worst, but there is something to be said about the fun that a properly executed pvp system can bring to a realm.

Also if I were to roll on a PVE server only I might miss out on fun things to possibly do like pirate vessels at sea.:pirate:

[Michael Crowley]

I voted no. PVP can be fun sometimes but I have bad experience with being on a PVP server. I can be fun fighting other people sometimes but i´m not willing to do this full time. Some sort of battleground or arena is enough to fill my needs.

[Hiroki]

I voted no. I agree, an arena or duel option is enough for me if I choose to dabble. I just dont care for the social structure of pvp I guess.

[Aon]

I believe is pvp has rewards for it. Such as AA points or even character advancing attributes. It would make it very much worth while. And add allot more to game play. Remember the BoTB? That was an amazing challenge. But add pvp to a well made pve game. And it will be golden. DAOC was build around rvr pvp. pve was abit lacking but that game had allot of choice to it. In the matter of if you wanted to raid or go pve. The more options the better I say. And who doesn't want to punt gnomes? :)

[Eizen]

Voted: No Chance.
Because:
1. I dont think PvP 'fits' into an MMORPG. (MMORPG's for me is 'adventure'...character development....play with friends).
2. If I want PvP, I play a 'real' PvP game where the odds are even...like Wolf ET or BF2.
3. Kills immersion.
4. There are allways grief-players. Lvl 50 Rogues 'camping' noobs. Oh what fun...not.
5. I want to be able to take a short break without being murdered from being Afk.
6. Any other reason.

// My 5 Coppers

[thedrakex]

I am honestly dismayed at how many people are naive enough to say that pvp does not fit into an mmorpg. I dont wish to start a flaming war but lets honestly look at both sides of the arguement here. Many who have distaste for pvp have very good reasons for such, but most examples I have seen have been against an open pvp such as shadowbane. PvP can be applied in many many ways. Open pvp is just one of many. I too dislike an open pvp for many reasons. Most of which have been stated so i wont bother renaming any. What has also been said is that pve can only go so far. PvP can be a continuation of the game. PvP encounters are usually different every time, whereas killing the same high level boss usually goes about the same. Maybe you will wipe a few times. PvP has its uses.
At its very foundation mmorpg includes pvp. Whether a person chooses to roleplay or not, can pvp not be included? You gather your guild to wage war on another guild who has insulted you! Can it not be roleplay?
Personally, I support a limited pvp system, not open. Something where everyone knows what they are getting into, whether it be dueling, arena's or certain pvp "flagged" areas.

[DashTSL]

Pvp does help develop a more political type game, I'm thinking about Shadowbane here. It allows there to be consequences. There are players that enjoy the diplomacy that Pvp brings to the game.

[Aich]

If it has a sullon ruleset prolly.

[viperdrifta]

im for PVP all the way 2 me its the only way 2 play

[Zeebex]

I voted maybe, I have had good pvp experiences and bad ones, but in the last few years the bad ones outweighed the good ones. Griefers and newb camping almost ruined pvp for me, there are a lot of players out there that take delight in killing PC's ten levels below them, over, and over, and over...

Plus some classes seem to receive unfair advantages that make them unbalancing for pvp, leading to nerf's that also effect the pve side of the game.

[Lich]

Of course I'm up for PvP! :)
I love the idea of having a bit of PvP besides PvE, makes the game a lot more interesting :D

[ammie]

Pvp can add excitement and an edge to the game, but so much would depend on how its implememted! So I put maybe! :eek:

[Llars]

Is anyone still reading this thread? :)

I voted yes (should have voted maybe) because of my experiences in DAoC. There is no question, the most fun I have ever had while playing any video game was Keep Sieges in DAoC where both sides were evenly matched. There's nothing like the feeling of camaraderie that is built when you are about to go down and someone comes and saves your neck or vice-versa. You can't beat the pride you feel when it gets down to the wire and you and a few people that you've been fighting it out with for the last hour(s) are making a "last stand" and are holding off a superior number for longer than you thought possible. <sniff> Man, do I miss it...

Then there's the mutual respect you gain for an adversary that continuously proves to be a thorn in your side (and you in his/hers :) )

If I ever even get the hint that something like that is possible again, I'll be there with bells on. If it's open PvP with no real rhyme or reason, I may try it out but chances are it won't be enough. Ganking some unsuspecting player with that person basically having no chance to survive just doesn't do it for me and I certainly don't enjoy it happening to me. Evenly matched fights are pretty fun, I'll admit, but the annoyance of the ganking/griefing I've gotten used to in open PvP trumps any fun experienced by the few "good fights."

[Redyne]

I think the story line lends itself well to PvP, but with some limits. The PvP action in EQ2 has turned me off open PvP. To swarm a player with three or four characters just to wipe them out, get a rude emote as you are dying adds nothing to the game experience for me.If I wanted to bully players, and ruin their day I could just pick on the new residents at work.
I want PvP to require planning, advance the story content, and have real results. Not just camping the spawn points, and bludgeoning characters to death!:o

[Orchis]

I think the story line lends itself well to PvP, but with some limits. The PvP action in EQ2 has turned me off open PvP. To swarm a player with three or four characters just to wipe them out, get a rude emote as you are dying adds nothing to the game experience for me.If I wanted to bully players, and ruin their day I could just pick on the new residents at work.
I want PvP to require planning, advance the story content, and have real results. Not just camping the spawn points, and bludgeoning characters to death!:o

My sentiments exactly. PVP isn't so bad if it has a purpose and isn't abused. Unfortunately, this is a case where the few ruin it for the many. It's why I stay away from PVP servers.

[exclusive555]

hell yes for me on pvp cuz doing quests helping people...killing the content can get old after awhile and then people get burned out....but pvp adds a thrill ...a rush ...when you get pwn'd trying to do a quest ....pisses you off yea but just makes u want it more ...make u want to complete the quest that much more...or go kill someone...and leaves some content their as you pvp.. never ending content always wanting to be better then the next guy...and when ur uber u get to flex some muscle and take respect from people as everyone will know who you are after u slap em around its just a killer instinct in us all.....

but i guess im just a fighter not a lover

[Neo]

Coming over from CoX where PVP is somewhat entertaining and leading a SVG where PVP is a huge part of our daily conquests, I am looking forward to branching out with the PVP if only to test it out...but like all PVP, we will have to see how balanced it is and whether the community supports the developers final adaptation to this game.

It could be awesome, but then again, it could be a tremendous disappointment as well. About 15 members of my current Super Villain Group in CoV are moving over to VG to start a guild and we will be starting on a combination PVE/PVP server if they have that as an option.

Starting on a PVP server without knowing the scope of what PVP will be is hard to give a definitive answer to.

Neo

[Dread Quixadhal]

Coming from EVE-Online, where the only way to not PvP is to stay in empire space *and* not annoy anyone, I'd enjoy a PvP server provided it has a few rules and goals.

I don't think people should be able to attack folks too much lower level than themselves, as there isn't any real reason to do so UNLESS a strong player-driven political and land control system evolves here. In that case, you might choose to attack or kill invaders to prevent alt-spies from scouting your territory.

I also think without item looting from players, there's not much point to it, other than bragging rights. If you have something valuable or better than what I have, I might be evil enough to try and take it from you. :)

[Koldfire]

I agree with previous posters, if pvp is fairly balanced but not at the expense of pve and it has a purpose, rvr or some such thing I would definatley play. Guild wars on other pvp servers would be really cool, if two guilds decided to war they would be flagged agaisnt each other but no one else et cetera. FFA pvp is not my thing.

[methulah]

I'll consider it, for sure. However, I'll see what's going. PvP in Everquest 2 was hardcore to the enth degree, and that's perhaps not what I'm looking for. However, I do want to board ships and scuttle them, killing their crew and stealing their lewtz.

Ah, a man can dream.

[Saty]

I just hope the ruleset involved calls for a balanced PvP way.
Also, little is known at this moment, so I voted Maybe.
We don't even know who will be against who.
Good vs. Evil, with both sides represented on all continents ? Continent vs. Continent ? Guild vs. guild ? Or Free For All ?

Such things will influence my server choice for sure.
I have friends who want to be Cleric, but the majority of my friends want to be Kojan ... bad luck if it's continent vs. continent.

[staticblue]

One character slotted RPPvP FTW. :D As for rulesets, I have always like the MxO/SWG approach. A PvP flag. It would allow the whole world to be PvP but, only if you wanted it to be. The ruleset was deeper than that in SWG bt, I am sure most of you know it well already. ;)

[Fleeting1]

I wish a new game would implement RVR pvp like DAOC has. It was sooo much fun in the beginning before the graphics and game just got too old. RVR "designed from the ground up" pvp makes so much more sense then random slaying imo

[Commiebastage]

I played on a pvp server in EQ1, and despite all it's faults, I enjoyed the danger/excitement/unpredictability PvP events can bring to a game. I've been playing WoW for the last few months and like the battlegrounds element (good for having a limited time to play) and the occasional world encounter.

I'd love to see some sort of PvP element in Vanguard, especially if it supported by game content.

[Fargold]

A part of me can't quite wrap my mind around the combination of quests, friendly npc's, towns; the wilderness, dungeons, random vicious mobs; and random players wanting to duel me constantly. It's not totally incongruous, but it doesn't quite fit, for me.

But I can see how it would make the world more exciting and dangerous. Maybe after I get used to the world, the classes, the abilities etc. I might try it. I played fps's for a good while, back in the day, just never quite felt comfortable mixing that gameplay into rpg persistent worlds.

[Pontifus]

There would have to be limits. I'm not opposed to conflict between factions; in WoW, for instance, I never played on PvE servers because I enjoyed the PvP in contested areas. Early Ultima Online-style open PK rules, though...I don't know about that, given that you can lose gear and have your house destroyed in Vanguard. I do think, however, that destructible houses could make for some interesting PvP, if it was controlled in some way.

[Nycti]

I would not even consider playing on a pvp server. Having been in beta for over a year and enjoying the PVE environment I have no desire to be exposed to the sort of people who typically frequate PVP servers.

Don't do it. :(

Feos Swansong

[Rsaetan]

I will be playing on the PvP server.
I don't want them to balance the game at all for PvP, that way the PvE crowd doesn't whine ( since the game is balanced for them ) and it removes a lot of whiners from the PvP scene as things are not 'fair'.
FFA server rule set is best as it allows players to settle their own problems, promotes player made content ( battles for resources, hunting areas, towns etc. ) and creates a reinforced need for a strong guild.
Yes, there is more griefing.
No, the maturity level does not drop ( although people will disagree ).

[szaijan]

I'm only interested in PvP if there's a context for it... ala Shadowbane or DAoC. Destructible player cities, seiges and strategic areas to control are a must for good PvP, as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand why people glorify the gankfest that was UO, as the only point to PvP was survival or senseless murder, since no one carried anything of value after awhile.

I'd love to see faction based PvP, with the ability to kill those of your own faction at some significant 'cost'. I thought SB pretty much had it right, from a rules standpoint.

[kaylis13]

Personally Pointless PVP is just that .. Pointless.. at least when UO launched you could loot the body ( i still have a head from a dread lord in my bank somewhere )... but with out it being anything but killing for the sake of killing .. then it is just not worth the hassle

No, the maturity level does not drop ( although people will disagree ).

this is unfortunately not true ... for the most part your more mature players are looking for content and with a FFA no drop PVP system all you get is ganking and that in and of itself adds no real content... I am not by any means a Carebear Player Hell i a member of a PK guild in UO forever (faction server)... but as i said before that was with a purpose and there was content we could actually take over and defend the Cities...and get gear from the bodies of our victims

[Roanhare]

I enjoy PvP, it was great in WoW and not so great in EQ2. If the PVP system is akin to WoW's PVP servers, it should be fun and rewarding; however, if it is just the draconian PK fest w/ no tangible benefits/fun I will avoid PVP.

By nature I love to PvP, but I missed out on enjoying adventuring EQ2 just because I had to constantly avoid being slam dunked by other players.

[fremen]

hhhmmm i would play on a pvp server but not if it was a ffa system where u could kill anyoen in the world... imagine how pve would be if ur a monk and u use the drunken style cyclone thingy that hits all targets around u for damage... which will prob include ur group... see the problem here... i do not mind faction pvp as long as the u can visit all the different towns with out getting masacared every 2 steps.

ALTHOUGH if a guildwars style system was implemented then it would be a very enjoyable experience... world pvp would have to be worked on but that can be done through duels or miniture 1v1 areanas... abit like the reactive dungeon events i keep reading about.( this is where if both players agree to it then a little battle can be done... if its say 3 ppl (lvl 40) vs 5 ppl (lvl 35) ,for example, and both parties agree to it then an "official" style arena can be set up in the world where passers by can watch, if any, and ppl r rewarded for such a feet. if the 5 ppl beat the 3 ppl they get rewarded somehow. whle if its 3 lvl 35s beat 5 lvl 40 then the lvl 35s will get rewarded more.... or something along those lines.

sorry i was imagining things with out even looking at how the current system works. if all or some of what i said is actually how the system works then: PVP SERVER FTW!!!

[nathaniels]

OK this is how PvP is working on the pvp server right now. In the Wood Elves area some level 12s showed up. They ride up on their horses which lags you and then kill you in one shot. Then they know where you are going to spawn and they kill you again. Happened to me 3 times in a row. Ok fine. I rolled on the pvp server so I knew this could happen. But my question is do the town guards get involved? You know the level 50 guards that are all over? Or do they not attack unless attacked? I think that the guards should well guard, right? If they see the nations enemy running around killing citizens shouldn't they jump into the battle?

[Stricknyne]

I would but...After the experience I just had yesterday..Prolly not.. so I'm there killing some mob 2 lvls higher on my Necro.. 'mob dies' but my life is still going down.. I spin around and there are 2 rangers shooting me in the back.. Not even funny in the slightest... I had to come back 2x's to get them dead.

oh.. they bother were lvl 12s... I was 9

[Telemakhos]

Definately PvP server for me, adds another element to the game, makes it more fun imo.

[Ken Waterchan]

Team-based PvP for me. I won't play on an FFA server because I like to relax and immerse myself in the surroundings while exploring, and having to constantly watch my back no matter where in the world I am, gets stressful. I love the thrill of being hunted, but sometimes I also like to be in zones of respite where I can explore peacefully.

[nathaniels]

Team-based PvP for me. I won't play on an FFA server because I like to relax and immerse myself in the surroundings while exploring, and having to constantly watch my back no matter where in the world I am, gets stressful. I love the thrill of being hunted, but sometimes I also like to be in zones of respite where I can explore peacefully.

Well with how PvP currently is you wont be able to relax on the team server because if the current beta pvp server is the team setting and I think it is what you have is the higher level players going into the lowbie cities and killing the guys that are 4 or 5 levels lower than them in 2 to 3 hits. You can't even target them because they don't show red by the time you are dead, you just start taking damage and then by the time you figure out who is hitting you, you're dead. I guess all you can do is grief their newbies when you get high enough for revenge.

Myself I think the city guards should intervien in these fights and the enemies should appear as red mobs because right now you're clicking through the merchants, npcs and trainers before you can even figure out who is attackable. In all honesty it's just a grief tool at this point and I hope it changes. Pvp is fun when it's competitive.

[Blackmyst]

RVR a la DAOC and i'm in in a heartbeat ,and will never come out(along with many current and x DAOC players). Free for all pvp...not a chance.This is a tremendous financial opportunityfor Sigil,if they do it "right".

[Rowain deWolf]

RVR a la DAOC and i'm in in a heartbeat ,and will never come out(along with many current and x DAOC players). Free for all pvp...not a chance.This is a tremendous financial opportunityfor Sigil,if they do it "right".

As one X-DAOC player I absolutly agree

[Suriel]

From what I am reading in this thread it semms to be the typical cowards attacking the newbs. That kind of pvp, to me anway, is pointless.

If that is how PvP is going to be in Vanguard, no thanks. Realm vrs Realm would be fun, at least the higher lev players of your realm could police the coward newb killers.

[Rourke]

From what I am reading in this thread it semms to be the typical cowards attacking the newbs. That kind of pvp, to me anway, is pointless.

If that is how PvP is going to be in Vanguard, no thanks. Realm vrs Realm would be fun, at least the higher lev players of your realm could police the coward newb killers.

I agree here...this is the best way. The noobies can find protection and Vengence in the higher players that are around them in low areas. Would be a lot more fun too.

[Neocentric]

My guild and I (1stMI) will be playing on the team race war PvP server. FFA PvP is just not for us. We would rather have to use strategy when attacking instead of childish ganking tactics. We like to be able to count on our brothers (in-game) instead of having to mark everyone as a target. We would like to be able to check the exchange and our mail without suddenly dieing. FFA just doesn't suit us in the least.

Oh, and for those that don't know....the Beta PvP server is FFA right now, not team race war. On the team race war server you wont see gnomes killing gnomes, orcs killing orcs, dark elves killing dark elves, etc.

[Swayde]

Maybe...

My main(s) will definitely be on a PvE server with my guild. I might have an alt or two on a PvP server though to play around with, but it likely won't get much play time.

[Daroc Darkblood]

I will play on a PvP server if it's racial and the teams are fixed.

No cross teaming thank you :)

Making a teams server and not making the teams fixed is like FFA but not allowing you to attack a certain group of races, something like cippled FFA.
Please don't make the same mistakes as were made on Vallon and Tallon Zek.

After PvP death give people a stats penalty for 5 minutes and make them invulnerable for ~30 seconds (brakes after casting or attacking), this is good enough a penalty for me. Personally I don't need item loot nor do I need any other reward, winning is good enough a reward for me.

No level limit on PvP please.

[Saranfell]

After seeing the Vanguard pvp video on Youtube.com, there just isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll ever join the pvp server.. This one character kept camping the altars and pkilling anyone that appeared over and over and over and over. His actions speak VOLUMES of words in my opinion heh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNcCVZgPj_M

[Blackmyst]

My sence is Vanguard has given almost zero thought to pvp.They just want to not not have a pvp server at launch.Maybe sometime in the future well after post launch ,they will give the idea some time/thought.