New System Questions (very long) ...

[Gimpkin]

It's very close to time to "pull the trigger" on buying the new system. I've done a fair bit of ... err ... research (lotsa forum reading : Tom's, Anandtech, [H]ard OCP, etc) as well as reading Fozzik's recommendations and rabb1t's system. Thankyou for all the info btw. :D

Gonna list what I plan on buying and the cost (I know I can get some components cheaper on other sites but I didn't want to deal with multiple shipping and different RMA policies, etc). I'll follow with my questions.

Case TT Tsunami (Silver) $105
MB Asus A8N-SLI Premium $113.55
CPU AMD 64 X2 4600+ $493.09
GPU Powercooler X1900XT $499
Mem 2 GB OCZ Platinum PC3200 $205
HD WD Raptor WD1500ADFD $276
Snd Creative X-Fi Xtreme $122
PSU Coolmax CU-600T 600w $100.99
HS Zalman CNPS9500 $ 61.99
DVD NEC ND-3550A (Silver) $ 38.99
Router D-Link DGL-4100 $112.99
OS XP Pro w/ SP2 $146.95

Cabling Orion Pro Series SATA
Vantec Rounded IDE

That is the "core" system. The other components I'm listing I consider secondary.

Mon Dell 24" 2405FPW
KB Saitek Gamers
Mouse Logitech G5
Spkrs Logitech Z-5450.

It's a serious chunk of change for me (and a serious upgrade over my overworked three year old system) but it has to be done sooner (??) or later.

On to the questions.

1) I have no plans to ever run 2 GPU's. Is there some advantage to buying the SLI board over a non-SLI board ? Hell, I don't even think I will delve too deeply into overclocking. Is there another board that would work just as well and cheaper ?
(btw... the price on the Asus is for a refurbished unit. Is buying refurbed components terribly bad or ok ? I've heard arguments both ways).

2) The processor. Again the refurb question. The 4600 in question is, of course, a refurb. To stay in that price range on a "new" CPU, I would have to drop to a 4400. The 4600 worth the refurb risk or would I better off going to a new 4400 ?

3) The D-Link router. Now I have a few old routers kicking around that I'm sure would handle my modest needs (networking my old system and the new system). Think I have an old Linksys and an older Siemens router. Is the fancy D-Link worth the cash ? or would I better served saving the cash and using one of my old or a new (much cheaper) router ?

4) I agonized over PSU choices more so than any other piece (sad, I know). For all of my dubious research I never did quite come to a consensus on the "best" PSU for the buck. Antec, Silverstone, etc ... looked at 'em all. Kind of fell on the Coolmax by default and the fact I like the modular connections (hate having all those unused PSU wires sitting in a 5 1/4" drive bay). Is the Coolmax a good PSU ? Any other recommendations for a 600 wattish PSU ?

5) Pretty set on the OCZ memory ... The memory has a $30 rebate and I've read numerous times that OCZ is horrid with their rebates and likes to play games. Any truth to this ? If such is the case, I would rather support another company with my money.

6) The HD. The Raptor is nice. Fast. Big. In my computing lifetime (which dates from the stone ages of the Pet and Vic-20) I don't think I've ever managed to fill up even a 30 GB HD. My current HD is a 70 GB with around 40 GB free. The Raptor seems ... too big. I like the performance though. Would I see a large performance hit dropping to the small 70ish GB Raptor ? I know it has less cache and a different head/platter system.

7) I threw the OS in there as I think my well used Windows 2000 wouldn't be the best choice for the new baby. True ?

8) Finally, any comments/experiences with speakers. The Logi Z's are (supposedly) nice but ungodly expensive. I do listen to lots of music and movies but if there is a cheaper 5.1 alternative out there that is good quality, I'm all ears.

That's it. Mucho thanks if you have made it this far through my book. ;) I appreciate any help/guidance before I plunk my life's savings down on a system to feed my gaming addiction.

[sunsfury]

I can't see using an SLI board as being any advantage if you don't plan on running sli. I am kind of biased when it comes to Asus boards i'm affraid I absoulutley love them and I don't always overclock my systems.

I am not up to date on d-link routers so I can't say much there.

I'm glad you agonized over PSU choices. I may be over paranoid but I never skimp on my psu. I use pc power and cooling myself but they can be a little loud and more expensive than the norm. By no means is this the bible on power supplies but I found these very helpfull. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=974240
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1000883

OCZ is good memory but i'm not sure about how they are with rebates. I thought everyone sucks when it comes to giving money back lol.

I use the 74 gb raptor and I love it. I will be adding a second one soon. I don't know much about the 150 gb raptor.

As far as buying refurbished goes I personally wouldn't. I really don't know if there would be cause for concern or not. I would really check into the warranty first if you go that route.

As for the Zalman HS as far as I know they work well. I have been using the Thermalright xp 90c myself and have very good temps with it on a Prescott. Just another option to confuse you lol.

Speakers I am unfamiler with those speakers I use Yamaha and Harmon kardon myself and couldn't be happier with them.

I have Been using the Dell 24" for just over a month now and I love it. It is however starting to seem smaller now that i'm adjusting to it lol.

I hope this helps till the pros arrive.;)

[Xhar Moondi]

I'm assuming you are pricing this from newegg.com, and I can see several 5.1 speaker alternatives well under the price of the speakers you listed. There are even a couple other cheaper logitech 5.1 setups, it just depends on the power you need really. And about the dell screen, it is without a doubt very nice, but it's a bit of a splurge imo; atleast while you are buying into an expensive system at the same time. You'd do fine with a smaller screen trust me :)

[rabb1t]

It's very close to time to "pull the trigger" on buying the new system.

Must you?

Reasons for pause...

AM2 - 6/6/6
Faster DDR3 GPUs - any day now
7900 GTX - the end of this week at Cbit?
DDR4 GPUs - estimated for Summer
Vista + DirectX 10 - estimated in October

1) I have no plans to ever run 2 GPU's. Is there some advantage to buying the SLI board over a non-SLI board ?

The advantage is, should you decide to use SLI, for whatever reason, it would be there.

To my knowledge, the nForce 4 SLI chipset is the most prevalent in the market (for 939 boards), so in terms of support, you may get the best deal by going with that even if you wouldn't use SLI. More users / prevalence = more bug reports = more patches.

As to your particular build - with an ATI GPU you could never use SLI. Your PC would a splode (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbzone.html).

Is there another board that would work just as well and cheaper ?

That board has a silent system - this means you won't ever have to worry about chip fan volume or failure. "Work just as well" may depend on if alternate boards are silent and/or have fans that don't fail.

(btw... the price on the Asus is for a refurbished unit. Is buying refurbed components terribly bad or ok ? I've heard arguments both ways).

You have to be very careful on the NewEgg refurbs. Often they include only a tiny amount of coverage. I think I'd accept a coverage period of 1 year, but I wouldn't want less for any part.

2) The processor. Again the refurb question. The 4600 in question is, of course, a refurb. To stay in that price range on a "new" CPU, I would have to drop to a 4400. The 4600 worth the refurb risk or would I better off going to a new 4400 ?

Again, I'd say, for me, if it were covered for 1 year I'd feel pretty secure. Less and I wouldn't feel very safe.

Also note that if you don't need to do this upgrade right this second, if you can wait till June, the prices should drop by probably 5-10% when the AM2 comes out.

Any other recommendations for a 600 wattish PSU ?

I prefer quiet, so for me I'm all about the Phantom 500w. Pretty expensive, but what they don't advertise is that it is SLI ready. There are also 3 settings, so you can have it mostly quiet, or noisier, depending on your needs.

6) The HD. The Raptor is nice. Fast. Big. ... I don't think I've ever managed to fill up even a 30 GB HD. My current HD is a 70 GB with around 40 GB free. The Raptor seems ... too big. I like the performance though. Would I see a large performance hit dropping to the small 70ish GB Raptor ? I know it has less cache and a different head/platter system.

Not sure on the diff between the 150 and the 75. I've got a 75 myself (I built the system back in '04). I've never been one to use a lot of space either. I think I hit my all time high not too long ago there with a few betas and 'extra' games loaded on at ~45 gig total.

Here is the thing with speedy drives - they are very helpful for single player games, very helpful for loading programs, likely very helpful for pr0n, but for things like online games they really don't make a difference. Most MOGs are designed to load in multiple small chunks, so the difference between say a 7500 rpm drive and a 10k rpm drive is pretty well minimized or not noticeable.

7) ... Windows 2000 wouldn't be the best choice for the new baby. True ?

You have a dual core and from what I've heard the OS that plays the nicest with dual core currently is XP 64-bit. I know there are patches out for XP 32-bit, but I hear there are more issues.

However, it seems silly to get an OS and then upgrade to Vista (assuming you are doing so) in as few as 7 months.

8) Finally, any comments/experiences with speakers.

Your X-Fi will likely play a bigger factor there than the speakers. (Until maybe you go over the $250 range or under the $80 range for speakers.) I don't know how much that particular model is worth, but moving from my Audigy 2 ZS I noticed the nicer sounds when moving to the X-Fi. So... not a super audiophile, but I think 'not super cheap' speakers are probably good enough. (My 7.1 set was like ~$125 brand new several years ago when 7.1 was a big deal.)

[Lord_Vyper]

1) I have no plans to ever run 2 GPU's. Is there some advantage to buying the SLI board over a non-SLI board ?
As Rabb1t said, trying to add 2 ATI video cards on a SLI system isn't going to work. You'd need a ATI Crossfire chipset to do that.
As to why you'd want to have SLI/CrossFire capability even though you don't plan on using it? It's better to have and not need, then need and not have, and SLI/CrossFire tend in general to be the higher-end boards, so more goodies, more onboard features, better stability, etc.


Hell, I don't even think I will delve too deeply into overclocking. Is there another board that would work just as well and cheaper ?
There are many, many boards that will run stock speeds, and stock settings. However, keep in mind that boards that OC well are usually the most stable boards in general (DFI being the notable exception to this).

2) The processor. Again the refurb question. The 4600 in question is, of course, a refurb. To stay in that price range on a "new" CPU, I would have to drop to a 4400. The 4600 worth the refurb risk or would I better off going to a new 4400 ?

Buy new. Buy the 4400+. The 4400+ uses the Toledo core, which has 2 x 1Mb L2 cache, and a fixed memory controller. the 4600+ is the previous generation core, Manchester. The extra cache will serve you much better then the 200Mhz speed difference.

3) The D-Link router. Now I have a few old routers kicking around that I'm sure would handle my modest needs (networking my old system and the new system). Think I have an old Linksys and an older Siemens router. Is the fancy D-Link worth the cash ? or would I better served saving the cash and using one of my old or a new (much cheaper) router ?
Use the Linksys. The D-link is overkill, unless you're lucky and have a home fiber connection.

4) I agonized over PSU choices more so than any other piece (sad, I know). For all of my dubious research I never did quite come to a consensus on the "best" PSU for the buck. Antec, Silverstone, etc ... looked at 'em all. Kind of fell on the Coolmax by default and the fact I like the modular connections (hate having all those unused PSU wires sitting in a 5 1/4" drive bay). Is the Coolmax a good PSU ? Any other recommendations for a 600 wattish PSU ?

Coolmax is an ok brand, and you can't beat the price. Stick with it.

5) Pretty set on the OCZ memory ... The memory has a $30 rebate and I've read numerous times that OCZ is horrid with their rebates and likes to play games. Any truth to this ? If such is the case, I would rather support another company with my money.

OCZ as a company has made a phenomenal effort to rebuild its service and support. I sincerely doubt if you'd have any problems with rebates, customer service, RMAs, etc.
That being said, I'd recommend gSkill (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231032) over OCZ at the moment. Just slightly better chips then OCZ this round.

6) The HD. The Raptor is nice. Fast. Big. In my computing lifetime (which dates from the stone ages of the Pet and Vic-20) I don't think I've ever managed to fill up even a 30 GB HD. My current HD is a 70 GB with around 40 GB free. The Raptor seems ... too big. I like the performance though. Would I see a large performance hit dropping to the small 70ish GB Raptor ? I know it has less cache and a different head/platter system.

The larger cache will definitely show a performance difference.
If you've got the cash, the 150Gb Raptor's the best.

7) I threw the OS in there as I think my well used Windows 2000 wouldn't be the best choice for the new baby. True ?

With dual core, and multi-threaded apps incoming, Win2k, XP pro, or Vista are your only real choices. MS has stated they're dropping support for Win2k shortly after Vista comes out, so 2k's out as well. If you're buying the system this year, go with XP Pro. If not till next year, Vista.

8) Finally, any comments/experiences with speakers. The Logi Z's are (supposedly) nice but ungodly expensive. I do listen to lots of music and movies but if there is a cheaper 5.1 alternative out there that is good quality, I'm all ears.

Concerts killed my hearing, I tend to go for whatever's louder, not neccessarily higher quality. I wound up going with Creative gigaworks 7.1 surround (my PC is my entertainment center).

[Fozzik]

What Vyper said. :D

Just a few extra comments...

The 74GB Raptors really aren't any faster overall than one of the newer 7200RPM drives. The 150GB Raptor however, with it's larger cache and higher density...is faster. Not a huge amount, but if you're going to get a Raptor, I'd go with the 150GB. Also, it's better to have more space and not need it, than not enough (again, like Vyper said ;) )

I wouldn't go referb either. Too many things you don't know. The 4400+ is the better choice, and honestly if you don't plan on overclocking...get the retail CPU with the heatsink and fan included and save the money on the 3rd party cooler. The stock heasink/fans that come with X2 processors are fantastic. I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

The reasons for the A8N-SLI premium are because it's solid and reliable, with great performance, and passive cooling. If you can find that in a non-SLI which is cheaper, go for it. From where I'm sitting, that board is the best choice. Since you are getting an ATI card, it may be good to look at what's available from ATI, although the RD580 board that's available right now is overpriced, and the others won't be out for a while yet. The Abit RD480 board that Vyper has (like plz?) might be a good choice...it's cheaper, and I think works very well.

I know not of coolmax power supplies. I believe the Enermax Liberty 620W might be a good choice. It's more expensive, but it gives you the modular cables (if I'm remembering right), and is a very solid brand with all the power you'll need plus extra for future upgrades.

Also, I'm pretty sure you know what power supply I favor, if you've looked at my recommended systems. ;)

[Lord_Vyper]

From where I'm sitting, that board is the best choice. Since you are getting an ATI card, it may be good to look at what's available from ATI, although the RD580 board that's available right now is overpriced, and the others won't be out for a while yet. The Abit RD480 board that Vyper has (like plz?) might be a good choice...it's cheaper, and I think works very well.

I do so love my Abit AT8 motherboard, but they;ve apparently vanished off the face of the Earth. Newegg stopped listing them a couple days ago. Good news is that Abit has a RD580 based board coming "soon" that's essentially the AT8 with the new chipset.

Or, if you don't like waiting, and want what looks like a very nice board, the Asus A8N32-MVP might suit you.

[Traldan]

I have a Sparkle FSP550w PSU, and it's great - and uber stable on the 12v rail (specs say 36A) so no problems with my X1900XT.

I'll post more comments tomorrow, I'm tired.:p

[Fozzik]

I do so love my Abit AT8 motherboard, but they;ve apparently vanished off the face of the Earth. Newegg stopped listing them a couple days ago. Good news is that Abit has a RD580 based board coming "soon" that's essentially the AT8 with the new chipset.

Or, if you don't like waiting, and want what looks like a very nice board, the Asus A8N32-MVP might suit you.


The A8N32-MVP was the one I was talking about being very overpriced. Also, I'm hearing whispers already around the web that it has its own set of issues, much like the A8R-MVP from Asus did. Some are saying there is already a new BIOS for the A8N32-MVP that fixes many of the problems...but honestly, it seems like motherboard makers are still having a hard time making a stable board with any ATI chipset.

[Lord_Vyper]

The A8N32-MVP was the one I was talking about being very overpriced. Also, I'm hearing whispers already around the web that it has its own set of issues, much like the A8R-MVP from Asus did. Some are saying there is already a new BIOS for the A8N32-MVP that fixes many of the problems...but honestly, it seems like motherboard makers are still having a hard time making a stable board with any ATI chipset.
Bleh, don't tell me, PCI issues with the A8N32-MVP? /sigh
Personally, I'm more inclined to think it's issues with Asus + ATI, rather then ATI itself. Most other manufacturers that use ATI chipsets had no problems, aside from the SB suckiness.