A build - Finally

[Tenerin]

Hi All,

I just wanted some advice on a build which I am finally about to do.
Just some context, I've been delaying my build for bloody ages now. Initially, it was the wait for the new AM2, followed by a wait for the C2Ds. Then it was a wait for prices to start stabilizing. My system now is currently an old AMD 2500 with a CRT, so it's really starting to get slightly unbearable.:(

I know the new Nvidia cards are going to come out in 2 weeks. However, it'll probably be another 2 weeks or so before it hits shelves where I live (not to mention probably ridiculous prices), so I'm not sure I want to wait an additional month (and maybe one more after that for prices to come down again..):eek:

In any case, I suspect the first gen of these new DX10 compatible cards will have go through a fair share of further optimization, so I'll probably buy in during the next set of product releases.

My main question then, would be - What graphics card should I look at for the interim period? Knowing that I will change cards within 6 months or so, could anyone recommend a decent mid/mid-high range card that won't break the bank?

The other concern I have will probably the PSU. From reports, the new cards look like power guzzlers, so.. I'm looking at starting with a 700W and above to be safe? :o

Many thanks for any inputs!
Ten

*edited to include proposed build of other parts
(The other components of my build will closely follow Fozzik's $2000 recommendation)

Processor - Core 2 DUO E6600
Motherboard - Asus P5W DH Deluxe/WiFi (Intel 975X chipset)
Ram - Patriot 2x1GB DDR2-667 (PC5300)
Sound Card - Creative Labs X-Fi ExtremeMusic
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (SATA 3GB/s, 16MB cache, 320GB)
Case - Antec P180
DVD Drive - Existing
PSU - TBD
GPU - TBD
Monitor - Prob a BenQ 20.1, TBD

[Slide]

Hi All,

I just wanted some advice on a build which I am finally about to do.
Just some context, I've been delaying my build for bloody ages now. Initially, it was the wait for the new AM2, followed by a wait for the C2Ds. Then it was a wait for prices to start stabilizing. My system now is currently an old AMD 2500 with a CRT, so it's really starting to get slightly unbearable.:(

I know the new Nvidia cards are going to come out in 2 weeks. However, it'll probably be another 2 weeks or so before it hits shelves where I live (not to mention probably ridiculous prices), so I'm not sure I want to wait an additional month (and maybe one more after that for prices to come down again..):eek:

In any case, I suspect the first gen of these new DX10 compatible cards will have go through a fair share of further optimization, so I'll probably buy in during the next set of product releases.

My main question then, would be - What graphics card should I look at for the interim period? Knowing that I will change cards within 6 months or so, could anyone recommend a decent mid/mid-high range card that won't break the bank?

The other concern I have will probably the PSU. From reports, the new cards look like power guzzlers, so.. I'm looking at starting with a 700W and above to be safe? :o

Many thanks for any inputs!
Ten

*edited to include proposed build of other parts
(The other components of my build will closely follow Fozzik's $2000 recommendation)

Processor - Core 2 DUO E6600
Motherboard - Asus P5W DH Deluxe/WiFi (Intel 975X chipset)
Ram - Patriot 2x1GB DDR2-667 (PC5300)
Sound Card - Creative Labs X-Fi ExtremeMusic
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (SATA 3GB/s, 16MB cache, 320GB)
Case - Antec P180
DVD Drive - Existing
PSU - TBD
GPU - TBD
Monitor - Prob a BenQ 20.1, TBD

7600GT are pretty decent for the price.

[Hexonyx]

I dont think that Motherboard is SLI ready/approved if you go for an Nvidia card and want to duo it... just fyi.

[Fozzik]

I don't think he's going to want to go dual-GPU...considering he said he's planning on moving to a DX10-class part.

7600GT is ok if you want to go very cheap. If you can spend about $200 (and feel comfortable spending that much) you'll have a lot of choices.

X1950pro (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102061) or a 7900GS would be good bets.

[Tenerin]

Cheers Everyone,

Appreciate the suggestions there.

I'll assume the X1950Pro and the 7900GS aren't too wide apart in terms of performance, and the only real difference is the branding?

I've been hearing good things about the 1950 series, and I think I might just go for that for now. Not a big punch to my wallet, but enough to satisfy the "need for speed" for now. Has anyone heard any complaints about noise or heat levels for the above mentioned X1950 model?

Whilst I know there's not much news about the new DX10 cards, I'd just like to check again if the folks here think a 700-750W PSU will be enough to cut it for a future upgrade?

Many thanks again for the quick replies!

[Fozzik]

I'd agree... I think the X1950pro is probably the better choice out of the two. It performs a bit better, and uses a new cooler that ATI just came out with that should be fairly quiet and work well. Some of the reviews say the fan on the X1950pro is a little high-pitched and whiny... not sure whether it would end up being annoying or not.

Either one would work great for you, I think. If you want help picking out a power supply...we can certainly recommend some. :D

[rabb1t]

Unless you need the recording features, or music enhanced playback, of the Music version, I'd recommend the X-Fi Xtreme Gamer (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102006).

Re: DX10 1st gen...

I'd say just take the chance on not totally optimized 1st gen stuff and go with it. Waiting 6 months for the half-gen step likely won't fix any bugs if it even comes out that soon. Remember that only the high-end Nvidia's are hitting in a few weeks, with the mid and entry level hitting in Q1. A half-gen step from either company isn't likely until around Q3-Q4 '07. Me, I'll bet they are targeting Q4 for the holiday sales.

Also, be aware that the specs for DX10 hardware will remain unchanged throughout DX10's life. So, while it is possible Nvidia or ATi could redesign cards for better performance in theory you should not need to upgrade unless you truly want more power. And, big redesigns are expensive, so they are both going to avoid them. Thus, a 1st gen card should be just fine. Also consider that each revision, be it a half-gen step or full gen step, will tweak the hardware each time. Thus, does it really matter from a technical standpoint if you come in at 1.5 instead of 1? Your card will trumped by the 2nd gen stuff, just like the 1.5 gen will trump gen 1, and 2.5 will trump 2, and 3 will trump 2.5 and so on and so on. Thus, if you skip every other steps the pattern would go 1 to 2 to 3... or 1.5 to 2.5 to 3.5. It shouldn't matter in terms of tech so much as when are you going to upgrade and when are you going to use the features. Sure, there is greater 'risk' with 1st gen than anything after it, but is it worth skipping when you are doing a new build? Hum. I'd say if you were going to skip it skip it for more like a year instead of just a few months.

Me, I think it's a mistake to skip the 1st gen cards if you are building at the time they are launching just due to fear that they may not be totally optimized.

Sure, you'd need a massive PSU to drop that 1st gen card down to be used as a PPU later on (an estimated 800w PSU) as you'd then have 2 DX10 cards, but I don't know, I've never had any problems with 1st gen architecture save for drivers. All of the other 'real' issues, such as heat or performance are things that are tweaked all the time.

[tennex]

My main question then, would be - What graphics card should I look at for the interim period? Knowing that I will change cards within 6 months or so, could anyone recommend a decent mid/mid-high range card that won't break the bank?


If you dont plan on upgrading for atleast 6 months, I would say the 7900GS or 1950pro. The 7600GT is amazing for it's price. All the cards recommended would get you by. Just try to look at it from this standpoint: I spend $240 and right at 6 months, was it worth paying $40 a month for that video card?

[Tenerin]

Also, be aware that the specs for DX10 hardware will remain unchanged throughout DX10's life. So, while it is possible Nvidia or ATi could redesign cards for better performance in theory you should not need to upgrade unless you truly want more power. And, big redesigns are expensive, so they are both going to avoid them. Thus, a 1st gen card should be just fine. Also consider that each revision, be it a half-gen step or full gen step, will tweak the hardware each time. Thus, does it really matter from a technical standpoint if you come in at 1.5 instead of 1? Your card will trumped by the 2nd gen stuff, just like the 1.5 gen will trump gen 1, and 2.5 will trump 2, and 3 will trump 2.5 and so on and so on. Thus, if you skip every other steps the pattern would go 1 to 2 to 3... or 1.5 to 2.5 to 3.5. It shouldn't matter in terms of tech so much as when are you going to upgrade and when are you going to use the features. Sure, there is greater 'risk' with 1st gen than anything after it, but is it worth skipping when you are doing a new build? Hum. I'd say if you were going to skip it skip it for more like a year instead of just a few months.

Me, I think it's a mistake to skip the 1st gen cards if you are building at the time they are launching just due to fear that they may not be totally optimized.

Sure, you'd need a massive PSU to drop that 1st gen card down to be used as a PPU later on (an estimated 800w PSU) as you'd then have 2 DX10 cards, but I don't know, I've never had any problems with 1st gen architecture save for drivers. All of the other 'real' issues, such as heat or performance are things that are tweaked all the time.

Hey Rabbit, thanks for the comments there.

The case right now for me is that I'm running a pretty old system that's pretty much falling apart at the moment.

As I mentioned before, this build has been delayed for ages now, and I have this nagging feeling that if I play the waiting game further on this one, I'll have another "excuse" not to build come the new GPUs released by nVidia.
Again, I reckon it'll take some time for the cards to arrive in my region - that and it'll probably come with a pretty hefty price tag (Newly released GPUs will probably go about $800-$900 where I am), so if I wait for this one, it'll be another 1-1.5 months.

That being said, you do put forth some good points there.

Ultimately, I think I'll consider the situation for another week. If I feel that my PC situation can hold out for another month, and the reviews of the new card is good, then I'll wait.
If not, I guess I'll buy in at the Q3-Q4 release in 07...

[rabb1t]

If not, I guess I'll wait for the Q3-Q4 release in 07...

Just remember, that's a guess from the rabb1t brain based on GPU full generation cycles of 1.5 years and half that for the half-gen step (thus ~9 months from the full gen launch.) Could be longer, could be shorter, don't know. :p

[Tenerin]

Well, last update. I've heard rumours that the new Nvidia cards should go out around 500 to 600USD.

That's really probably a bit too much for my wallet now, so I'll stick with the x1950 series now and see how things progress.

Whilst it may not make sense to some - I guess it's now just a case of time and money. Oh, the woes of being held back by the pursestrings. :(

[rabb1t]

See the DX10 thread on that. I believe the 8800 GTS is ~$500-550 and the GTX (an 11" card that takes 2 PCIe x16 plugs) will be ~$650.

We'll know all the details for sure on the 8th.

[Fozzik]

The most recent estimate I heard was actually $450 for the GTS...but I'm guessing things will be inflated at release since there will be high demand and probably not enough supply.

[rabb1t]

Wow, that'd be pretty sweet if it had good performance.

Guess I'll find out in *checks date* 1.5 weeks.

Still curious to see how much of a gain each card is. Very curious to see if the super huge card is worth the increased size.

[Tenerin]

Well, I've gone out and gotten my parts for the build. And unfortunately, I've had to ignore the DX10 parts for now.

I suspect I might pick up the mid range cards later in future, or wait 9 months to a year for the next half step up.

Just one of those things that can't be helped I guess. I needed a working PC rather urgently and was constrained by budget.

I didn't want to start another thread for this, but does anyone have any recommendations for software with regards to:

Firewall
Anti Virus
Spy/Malware detection and removal?

Preferably something I can get off the net :o

I'd like to also ask if you guys had any "routines" or "best practices" that you might take when setting up the BIOS?

Thanks again,
Ten

[rabb1t]

I'm in a bit of a spot, as most of that don't work with XP 64-bit. (I don't have to worry though. I'm on a house net, so I'm behind a server that has all that stuffs.)

I did like/use Norton for Anti-Virus. Spy Sweeper (http://www.webroot.com/consumer/products/spysweeper/) is good for adware/spyware.

Steelseries is working on a software package for gamers that would cover all of the aspects you list. I don't think it's ready yet... ah, looks like it is finally out. SteelSecurity (http://www.steelseries.com/steelsecurity). Seems a touch pricy though at ~$70 U.S. I'd get it if I weren't behind the house net protection though. :)

As to the bios - I pretty much do the same thing every time. On first boot, hit the pause to get into bios, disable on-board sound, change ram voltge to the spec the ram manufacturer says it uses, change CPU fan temp target, change CPU fan speeds/alarms, um... adjust bits, such as setting the main GPU to be PCIe x16, disable others (such as extra lan ports not being used), um... I think that's it.

I will also do a Disk Cleanup and Defrag after I’m done installing everything. (I defrag a couple of times actually to be sure.)

[Fozzik]

My anti-virus (after much research and things and lots of discussions here on the site) is now NOD32 from http://www.eset.com . This product has been great so far, and from all the testing I've seen it has the best heuristics out of any anti-virus on the market (meaning it catches considerably more of the virus files that it hasn't seen before).

I use the free ZoneAlarm firewall from http://www.zonelabs.com . It has always worked pretty well, and is easy to set up with and deal with. Hard to beat the price, too.

As for the BIOS... I usually open up the motherboard manual and go through every setting in the BIOS one at a time. If I don't know what something is, and don't get enough of a description from the motherboard manual...I go to the web and find out. BIOS programs are constantly being changed/updated, so despite the large number of computers I've built there is usually something new that I haven't seen before. After a while, though, you get a sense for most of the stuff, and for a lot of the settings I don't even check the manual anymore. It's time consuming at first, but a great way to learn and a sure way to make sure you don't miss anything.