Upgrading my GPU - worth it or not?

[mparisi2000]

Hello everyone!

Long time lurker, first time poster - with a question about upgrading my GPU.

Right now I'm playing games (WoW mostly) on a slightly old Dell Dimension XPS (yeah, yeah, I know). It has a Pentium 4 CPU running at 3.6 GHz, one gig of RAM, and a GeForce 6800/256 MB graphics card. I'm using a 19" LCD monitor (1280x1024 resolution). I can't really complain about performance - WoW runs solidly on mid/high settings, etc.

A friend of mine offered to sell me an eVGA GeForce 7800 GTX KO/256 MB card. We haven't talked price yet - wanted to check with you guys first. I have to admit the idea is tempting: I could squeeze a few more months out of my current gear, and get a little more juice for the Vanguard beta and launch in the meanwhile.

Which leads to my three questions:

1) will I see much of a performance boost going from the 6800 to the 7800, given the rest of my components?

2) about how much should I pay for this card?

3) would I be better off not bothering, and saving the money for a bigger/different upgrade (like another gig of RAM) or even starting a new build? I'm planning a build at some point - remember I've been lurking! - but I'm in no rush.

Thanks for your help!

MP2K

[tolliner]

Just make sure you're using an AGP 8x slot for graphics and not pci-express (as the 7800 is only an AGP card)

If your specs are low for the rest of the computer it's probably time to look at getting a whole new build as the 8800's are at least 2x faster than the 7800 and all future good GPUs will be pci-e based

[Loopy]

The Evga 7800 GT/GTX series are PCIe cards. The only AGP 7800 cards from Evga are the 7800 GS series

[tolliner]

The Evga 7800 GT/GTX series are PCIe cards. The only AGP 7800 cards from Evga are the 7800 GS series

Thanks fotr the corerction, forgot they had GT/GTX 7800's :twisted:

[armsakimbo]

I got a huge graphics performance improvement going from a 6600GT/128 to a 7600GT/256. These are PCIe cards on a system running an Athlon64 3200+ CPU with 1GB of PC3200 RAM (I run everything at 1280x1024 resolution). Not the same as the upgrade you're looking at, but it is an nVidia 6-series to 7-series comparison.

[Gargen]

It depends on your priorities. Would you rather have smoother gameplay or more graphics options turned on?

If you want smoothness, get the extra GB of RAM. If you want graphics toys, get the 7800 GTX.

[rabb1t]

1) will I see much of a performance boost going from the 6800 to the 7800, given the rest of my components?

At your res, with something like WoW you likely won't seem much of a performance change. Now, something that pushes graphics a bit more, like Doom 3 or Prey or Oblivion, then you'd be able to get higher settings out of the 7800 GTX.

Tom's chart (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=523&model2=538&chart=214)

2) about how much should I pay for this card?

Well, here is the thing, that card is actually worth more to your friend by trying to sell it to someone who has a 7800 GTX already who is trying to run SLI. For you... well... you can get something like the 7950 GT KO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130061) that would be very close in performance to that 7800 GTX and is only $250 after rebate brand new.

Tom's chart (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=523&model2=581&chart=224)

Tops I'd say would be $200. The 7800s are getting on in age and had production issues. The changes in the 7900 allowed for much faster and higher production numbers, so there are a lot more of them and they are tweaked in comparison. (Part of that was smaller production so they run cooler and a bit quieter.)

3) would I be better off not bothering, and saving the money for a bigger/different upgrade (like another gig of RAM) or even starting a new build? I'm planning a build at some point - remember I've been lurking! - but I'm in no rush.

If all you are playing is WoW you don't exactly need a powerhouse, particularly at 1280x1024 res.

Would you actually have like $1500 to spend or are we talking like $250 or less here? If you have the $1500 or so, I'd say just drop it into a new build with a 20.1" 1680x1050 screen. If not, then you probably just want to stick with a GPU upgrade and bump yourself to 2 gig total.

[Fozzik]

As others mentioned, you need to work out the slot. Are you using AGP or PCI-Express? If it's AGP, your friend's card isn't even going to be able to plug into your system.

Rabb1t's the man on prices, so I'd back him up and say $200 is probably the max to pay.

The card should give a very impressive boost in games that are taxing on the graphics (WoW is NOT taxing from a graphics standpoint). With an extra gig of RAM, that system should be fine (with the 7800GTX) for at least another year, maybe more.

[mparisi2000]

Thanks for the advice, guys! I really appreciate the opinions of some experts.

The GPU I have now is PCI Express, so swapping it out for a new card won't be a problem.

Fozzik's assessment of my computer got me thinking, though. If 90% of my gaming is WoW (eventually it will be Vanguard), and I don't have a giant-resolution LCD, perhaps a new build is overkill. Seems like I have a couple of choices:

1) Get an upgraded video card (and even here, Rabb1t pointed out that I could buy a new card for not too much more money than my friend might charge me for his old one) and another gig of RAM, which should(?) take care of running WoW/Vanguard for at least the next few months. It's likely that Vanguard will be more graphics-taxing than WoW, but probably not THAT much more...especially since my screen is 1280x1024. And it's not like I've had any problems with my current machine.

2) Put the money I'd spend (say about $400 or so on the card plus the gig of RAM?) towards a $1500ish new build after the holidays. That would give me a shiny new box that will be good for a couple more years AND have the beef to move up to a larger screen. Plus my buddies would stop laughing at me for running a Dell. :D

I'm fortunate that my budget doesn't shut out option 2, so hmmm.... Something to think about over my Christmas vacation.

Thanks again!

-MP2K

[Fozzik]

You've definitely got options whenever there's money laying around. :D

It's likely that Vanguard will be more graphics-taxing than WoW, but probably not THAT much more...

Actually, the difference is probably VERY substantial between the two. WoW is a game that was designed to have very simple, cartoon-like graphics so that it could run on just about any computer. It's also about 2 years old. Vanguard is a brand-new upcoming game, and is designed with realistic and cutting-edge graphics. There will likely be a HUGE difference in the utilization of the entire computer when going from WoW to Vanguard.

Based on what we know of the recommended specs for Vanguard, a 7800GTX and 2GB of RAM added to your current computer would very likely give you a great playing experience, even on a somewhat larger display and settings on mid-high.

A new computer would be even better. :)

[mparisi2000]

Well, I have the Vanguard pre-order box teed up and ready for my Beta 5 invitation. Once I get in there and see how I like the game and how well my computer performs, my choice between 1 and 2 will probably get a lot more clear. I know that the beta may not run as smooth as the retail version will, but if I'm getting something like 20fps at video settings I like, there's not a lot of tuning the devs can do to fix that. :)

[rabb1t]

WoW is a game that was designed to have very simple, cartoon-like graphics so that it could run on just about any computer. It's also about 2 years old.

Just to further point this out, WoW is indeed like 2 years old now, and it was designed with world-wide specs in mind, which are 2+ years older than that. So really, WoW was targeting U.S. specs circa 2000 at launch.

If I recall from my WoW days, the lowest end PC in the guild I was in was a P3 with 512 meg of ram and a series 5 Nvidia GPU with 64 meg. I haven't seen the VG preorder box but there is simply no way something like that could run VG at any setting. Last I heard VG needed a current gen system, which isn't just CPU speed but also motherboard and ram speed, which is approximately a 3 gig 32-bit equivalent core, minimum of 1 gig of ram, though lets be honest here since everything runs better on 2 gig these days, and a fully DirectX9 compliant GPU.

I'd highly recommend going with the new build post-Xmas if you are a type of peep to play more than just WoW. For just WoW, sure it works great, no need to really upgrade. But for new games; VG, Crysis, Hellgate:London, BioShock, Unreal Tournament 2007 (provided it ever fricken comes out), Warhammer Online, you are going to want a current gen system. $1500, which would include a new 20.1" 1680x1050 monitor should put you solidly in the mid-range system category with something like an '8600 GTS' (made up number for a mid-range series 8).

IMO once anyone is talking about spending more than $250 or so on an older system they should really examine if other parts need upgrading. As example - most people have no clue that for around $600 you can change out your CPU, Ram, MB and GPU to current gen parts and in almost every case the other parts will carry over just fine. It just makes me crazy seeing peeps on old AGP systems dropping $250 for a GPU and money on more ram when they could update the core of their system for that cost and get into a far better position.

feh, got kinda rambly there, but bla bla bla there it is. :)

[mparisi2000]

Heh - you got me convinced, Rabb1t. New machine it shall be! I think you also gave me the leverage to convince my better half, too. She's also a gamer :D , so it shouldn't be too hard. Although I might end up having to build two machines if she gets jealous. :eek:

Best of all, Fozz put up his new recommendations, so between that and my lurking/research, I have a pretty strong place to start from.

-MP2K

[rabb1t]

Well, I'd highly recommend you stick with your current build till that B5 invite and see what is what before you upgrade.
Not only would that give you a better idea of how far off you are now, but it would give you and the wifey an idea of how much you'd enjoy the game. (I'd say reserve judgment until you have about 3 /played days under your belt. Prior to that the newness may bias judgment.)

Of course, if you would play a bunch of games other than VG go ahead and change over whenever yer ready. :) Most of the really good upcoming games aren't gonna hit till mid'07 and beyond though. :p

She's also a gamer :D , so it shouldn't be too hard. Although I might end up having to build two machines if she gets jealous. :eek:

[Barny] Haaaavvveee ya met the Wii? :D :rolleyes: