I hate soft penalties.

[Ziegfried Trueblade]

If theres one thing I am sick of its these watered down death penalties. They don't even hurt, exp debt makes me laugh. No level loss? Hehe...altars?! HAHA! I mean honestly none of that makes me flinch. How am I supposed to feel like I am in the world if nothing is at risk? May as well let me kill everything in one hit while yer at it.

People call me an EQ masochist. Honestly I don't care and I am proud of that badge, that label. It seems like game companies these days don't care about penalties anymore only about 'rewards'. Even Vanguard has fallen to this horrible plague!

[JAdams]

Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority on this one...

[wanelorm]

heh i'd be lvl 15 necromancer, if it wasn't for "death penalties".. i'm currently lvl 10. am i complaining? no.. i like having a good ole DP :eek:

Altars may summon your body.. but you get NO XP back. So if you don't mind losing 30 minutes of xp then be my guest. Makes folks work a bit harder, and actually put effort forth to not die.

EQ2 DP is a joke.. takes what? 3 kills to burn it off? sheesh... EQ1? yea that was good.. but having a 50 cleric with clicky stick at your disposal 24/7 negated most of the hassle. If you didn't have one, someone else you knew did..

[Nólaquen]

I agree with you in the sense that I feel more responsibility for my actions if it isn't easy to mitigate the consequences. But I never want to lose my corpse permanently. (Never want something like how the pre-Luclin Veeshan's Peak used to be, where if you died in the dungeon there was NO way to get your corpse back.) I don't mind losing levels with exp loss from death, but I think what Sigil has is an excellent compromise.

[vylo]

I lost 3 levels when I fell asleep bound in the mammoth cloak room in EQ, and that's how it should be. I learned my lesson, leveled back up up and never repeated that mistake again. Those who fail to learn should never level.

[anagain]

Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority on this one...


Well I agree with him so I must be in the minority too.

I hate being able to summon because I feel like I can and then I do. If I could just turn the ability to summon from an altar off it would remove that grasp of convenience.

If all players couldn't summon then they wouldn't and ultimately wouldn't they get used to that?

If it had never been there would they miss it?

Do we thank WoW for that? I think so.

I picture that I am in a group and we all die then the majority of the group decides that we should summon and get back on with it. Now when I say 'but I don't want to summon' what happens? Do I get instant group removal and fend for myself status? Probably.

That's why the idea of two choices to either bind gear or not bind gear only appealed to me in principle. I have already made up my mind that I won't bind anything to myself...I value the ability to do what I please with what I have earnt...but will the members of my pick up groups share my enthusiasm? Will it happen that when we all die and I come back, in junk armour that happened to be in my saddlebags, that I get get questioned about why we have to go get my corpse with me at half strength?

Why can't you just bind your gear, they'll ask.

I'll reply with my reasons.

They'll say that is so much easier to bind your gear. The group will split up shortly after the CR and we'll never group again.

That never grouping again might be nice but how many people will I find that don't want to bind gear?

If you never had the option to bind gear in conjucntion with summon your corpse would people miss it?

This game will favour easiness, even if the options are there to support added difficulty, because that is how the majority want the game to be. So the answer to my italicised questions is 'I dunno'. If they'd never had the option then they'd adjust. WoW gave them those options so you might have to say YES. Once you've been treated to convenience you continue to want convenience. It's like takeaway/frozen pizza as opposed to buying the ingredients and making your own pizza.

You get takeaway.

In Vanguard you summon and bind.

[Jaybird8151]

I think the penalty system in the game is pretty good. Although you don't lose a level, I still try my best not to die.

[anagain]

I lost 3 levels when I fell asleep bound in the mammoth cloak room in EQ, and that's how it should be. I learned my lesson, leveled back up up and never repeated that mistake again. Those who fail to learn should never level.


:D

I had a similar occurance when I bound in the giants waiting room outside Naggy. I was a druid and wanting to be helpful and port people in and out.

The next day, when I decided to gate after a hard days fun, was when I regretted not rebinding somewhere else. I lost so much experience before I decided to /quit.

Learnt to bind safely the hard way.


A friend of mine definintely learnt ot be careful when he was feared into the Hole. It took the kindness of a high level Necro to get him back out again. He still shudders if I mention the Hole. He treated the guards with respect the next time.


If anything bad happens in Vanguard I just summon out and eat the penalty. Nice and convenient eh?

[Gargen]

If all players couldn't summon then they wouldn't and ultimately wouldn't they get used to that?

If it had never been there would they miss it?

Do we thank WoW for that? I think so.

Would WoW have 8 million subs if you couldn't summon your corpse? I think not.




...and just for the record I like the VG death penalty just how it is. WoW is definitely too light for me. There was a time when I would have preferred old school EQ death penalty, but these days I'm more easy going about my MMOGs and am playing for the journey more than the destination.

[linkmaster]

Would WoW have 8 million subs if you couldn't summon your corpse? I think not.




...and just for the record I like the VG death penalty just how it is. WoW is definitely too light for me. There was a time when I would have preferred old school EQ death penalty, but these days I'm more easy going about my MMOGs and am playing for the journey more than the destination.


I agree...it's fine the way it is now....enough XP loss and damage to gear to make me want to avoid dying and summoning my corpse, (9 times out of 10 I will fight back in to get that XP and my unbound gear back)..

but not enough that I feel I HAVE to stay up till the small hours after going deep into a dungeon because we wiped 30 minutes before we all decided we were going to quit for the night.

Some of us have kids to sort out and jobs to go to in the mornings.

[JAdams]

I'm with you there, Gargen and Linkmaster. I'm pretty laid back as a gamer; I don't think I'm near good enough to deal with a harsher death penalty. :p

Oh, and welcome to SV, Linkmaster!

[Bartho]

After playing around with the level 35 bot buffer, then dying and using the alter to summon my corpse, you WANT to corpse run. Ye shall see!

[Telka]

I think the death in this game is meaningfull.. you die you lose EXP then you can eather A go get it back and get some of your exp back and possibly die again trying to get your corpse back or B you can alter it you dont get ANY exp back and your gear takes a 15 % duribility hit It just gives a choice and a way out if your body is somewhere your NOT getting it with out several nasty deaths losing days worth of exp.

[milow]

I ve play EQ sense 2001 and I remember the old death rules, and I can't say I was thrilled with them. I remember fear raid wipes and having to stay up late, because we had a rescue team coming and I didn't know if we be able to get one set up the rest of the week and didn't want to lose my body.


You can see how popular that really is by the fact that EQ add GY and then corpse summoning. EQ death penalty is basically a couple of hundred plat and .24% exp as you can almost alway get a 96% rez.

All having an overly harsh death penalty does is modify what risk some folks will take and saves you the hassle of getting your body back after a bad pick up group in an out of the way location.

You can alway decided not to use tomb stone and maybe even play one death and I start over so you can be real hard core on death.

[Neoptolemus]

Some of us have kids to sort out and jobs to go to in the mornings.

Exactly. The penalty might be light for those who can and want to play 6+ hours a day, but for someone like me who can only manage 2-3 hours in the evening (weekdays only) an overly harsh death penalty could set me back a week in terms of experience loss and corpse running.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want death to be so trivial that I use it as a shortcut to get somewhere or just don't care about going AFK in the middle of a hostile environment (as was the case with WoW). On the other hand, I don't want to have my hand bitten off every time I decide to do something risky or try to explore a particularly difficult dungeon. That only discourages experimentation.

[Ziegfried Trueblade]

OK back to ranting!

Well hey thats just grand that you have responsibilities, so do I. As I have gotten older I don't have as much time as I used to, but I still don't want some friggin hand holding baby sitting game. Without the risk I don't feel the reward, so I'd rather be 'inconvenienced'.

As for EQ getting watered down that had to do with the change in design scheme to a raid focused game. You are correct, once players got to the plane of fear in old EQ it was very harsh if you wiped. I went on a few raids back then and experienced a wipe in fear...but as much as I hated it, that was something that made the place legendary instead of just another zone. When they started adding a bunch of raid content it became painfully obvious that having 20 to 60 people wipe out was far too time consuming with the old system. If everybody is going to raid, you can't have such a harsh system because raiding is no longer for the 'hardcore'.

This is what leads me to believe that raiding leads to softer penalties. Many raiders don't do so well and wipe out a lot. It is a lot more difficult than grouping and a lot more chancy with all sorts of extra elements. Even WoW's repair bills seem agonizing if you are in a bad raiding guild and wipe all the time.

While I have done raiding myself I don't enjoy it much. And please don't tell me to make up penalties for myself that is absolutely ridiculous. Its bad enough I have to turn off the mini maps and crap. Hey better yet I'd like to have you get a taste of your own medicine and have them put in a difficulty slider in case an encounter is too tough for somebody they can just lower the bar.