Necromancer info

[CurseUppl]

So anyone got any information on this hot class? I've read the wiki but it does not say how good the class matches with NPCs and in PVP. Any tidbits? I've heard it's challenging and that you got to 'think' before attacking, unlike rogues who seem capable of taking on several NPCs in one go.

Been planning on being a Dark Elf Necromancer :D

[Atlas]

I don't want to encourage anyone to play a necro because in polls it seems to be one of the top class choices. Eventually, that will make it harder for necros to find groups and guilds because everyone will already have one. However, I have been fooling around with a necro and it's definitely a fun class if you like pets. Pets inevitably require more combat micromanagement, but they are a powerful ally. I would not say necros are terribly difficult to play though. They die easily, as do all spellcasters, but having an abomination probably makes them more survivable than, say, a sorcerer.

[CurseUppl]

Hmm :( I was hoping that the necromancer class wouldn't be hard played, since there are so many other great classes :D

Would be nice if Sigil would release a pie chart showing how many classes there are in the beta, as I generally try to pick the least used class.

[Atlas]

Yeah I would be interested in seeing some numbers as well. I want to play a necromancer because I like the class, but I have been in the situation of playing an overplayed class in other games and it can be quite an annoyance. If I remember correctly, the last class poll I looked at had ranger as the most popular class, but necro was second.

One of them was http://www.snappoll.com/view_results.php?poll_id=135896

[CurseUppl]

Ah yes, seen that. If it's true, then I'll likely be an inquisitor or a disciple, even though inquisitor might not be released until after the release :(

Still, sucks so much! I want to be a necromancer so badly lol, but not if too many play that class. Oh well :D

[fremen]

Hmm :( I was hoping that the necromancer class wouldn't be hard played, since there are so many other great classes :D

Would be nice if Sigil would release a pie chart showing how many classes there are in the beta, as I generally try to pick the least used class.

the beta and the on-line version r going to be very different mainly cos in the beta everyone is trying out all the classes and races so its not an accurate statistic

[Kilrith]

Reposted from the beta boards (posted by Scarcius):

Necromancer forms:
"30-
Form of Bones: +15% physical spell damage, +15% hp, +100 ac, enduring breath

3Wraithform: +15% spiritual spell damage, 8% damage rune, levitation, enduring breath


40-
Lich Form: +20% physical spell damage, +20% hp, +125 ac, enduring breath

Form of the Specter: +20% spiritual damage, 8% damage rune, levitation, enduring breath"

[Atlas]

The newest poll is showing necros dropping on the list. I hope this poll represents class percentages after release to a certain extent. As we get closer and closer to release we may be able to suppose that these polls will get more and more accurate.

http://snappoll.com/poll/161095.php

[Vordox]

The Necro class is probably the worst if you play this class you're outta your tree! I'm a lvl 34 necro and the higher in lvl I get the worse it becomes at this point in time. I have no idea what kinda code they got going for offensive casters but its the only one I have ever seen that gets weaker the higher lvl you get?!! Plus my pet at 34 hits mobs even with its lvl (high teens low 20s a melee) the same as it hits a mob 20 lvls below it! The pet cannot even keep aggro at that rate,and the mob regen is is almost faster then the initial damage making fights last from 3 to 5 min at a minimal xp gain now.I would suggest if you wanna have any fun at all in Vanguard play a melee or tank or healer being my 3rd choice. Necro is totally frustrating and a huge waste of time and energy. I have played since beta 3 and I've seen this class go from overpowered to just plain useless and with release just days away I see this class being released in it's current piss poor condition. This is the reason why the falling Necro numbers.

[Keegan]

I dont really care why the numbers are falling, the important thing is that they are.

[Vordox]

I dont really care why the numbers are falling, the important thing is that they are.

Care to elaborate further? Or do you just like posting vague responses?

[Widowmaker]

Sure its nice to see no one class played so heavily that you can not walk 10 feet without bumping into one, but the last thing anyone needs for game balance is a class to be so badly gimped that they are worthless in the later stages and end game.

[matray]

The Necro class is probably the worst if you play this class you're outta your tree! I'm a lvl 34 necro and the higher in lvl I get the worse it becomes at this point in time. I have no idea what kinda code they got going for offensive casters but its the only one I have ever seen that gets weaker the higher lvl you get?!! Plus my pet at 34 hits mobs even with its lvl (high teens low 20s a melee) the same as it hits a mob 20 lvls below it! The pet cannot even keep aggro at that rate,and the mob regen is is almost faster then the initial damage making fights last from 3 to 5 min at a minimal xp gain now.I would suggest if you wanna have any fun at all in Vanguard play a melee or tank or healer being my 3rd choice. Necro is totally frustrating and a huge waste of time and energy. I have played since beta 3 and I've seen this class go from overpowered to just plain useless and with release just days away I see this class being released in it's current piss poor condition. This is the reason why the falling Necro numbers.

Have you talked to other Offensive Casters and compared yourself to them? A little disheartening to hear that necromancers get useless the higher level they get.

[andolyne]

The Necro class is probably the worst if you play this class you're outta your tree! I'm a lvl 34 necro and the higher in lvl I get the worse it becomes at this point in time.
I remember reading somewhere that the spells at about that level were not correct, but they're right again at 40+, could it be that?

The pet cannot even keep aggro at that rate,and the mob regen is is almost faster then the initial damage making fights last from 3 to 5 min at a minimal xp gain now.
Unfortunately that is pretty common for pet classes, the higher level you get the weaker the pet is by comparison and eventually they can hold agro anymore. Lock's in WoW are the same.

andolyne

[Vordox]

Matray
Oh yes I am in the know with the other offensive casters as well and they tell me they notice the same degradation as they increase past say mid 20s.

Andolyne
No I am in constant contact with lvl 40 Necro lead in Vanguard and indeed it is no better for him but all he can do is keep bugging the Devs and hoping like the rest of us.

I have hope for the class eventually but upon release in what.... About 10 days it's just not gonna happen that fast sorry to say.

Melees are the way to go if you don't want the hassle they seem pretty set with a minimal amount of problems as of this writing.

I would love to tell you of puppie dogs and butterflies and those other comforting things but I think you deserve at least a heads up.

[Keegan]

Care to elaborate further? Or do you just like posting vague responses?

I dont know how I can elaborate further, refer to my first post.

[Treyon]

**pokes Vordox with a stick** hey i know you :p

EQOA ring a bell. nice to see some familiar names :)

Think druid if you need to remember. And yes I am going to roll another druid, maybe a necro also.

[Vordox]

Ah yes I do know you! How the hell yah doing? Go to gameraiders.com Twilights Darkness and meet the other EQOAers! yes very nice to see old faces!

Keegan Only see one post on this thread besides your last response so yeah I'm confused! But I am old that may be it?lol

[CurseUppl]

Well, play Necro if you like a challenge then ;)

[matray]

Matray
Oh yes I am in the know with the other offensive casters as well and they tell me they notice the same degradation as they increase past say mid 20s.

Andolyne
No I am in constant contact with lvl 40 Necro lead in Vanguard and indeed it is no better for him but all he can do is keep bugging the Devs and hoping like the rest of us.

I have hope for the class eventually but upon release in what.... About 10 days it's just not gonna happen that fast sorry to say.

Melees are the way to go if you don't want the hassle they seem pretty set with a minimal amount of problems as of this writing.

I would love to tell you of puppie dogs and butterflies and those other comforting things but I think you deserve at least a heads up.


Hmm, kinda perplexed now that you mention that all offensive casters degrade after their 20's.

What about grouping? Are arcane casters suppose to fit into other roles? I know the psionicist already is the king of crowd control. Does necro fit into another role later on?

[Vordox]

Matray,
I wish I could say yes but at this point in time NO. Now this can change and if it does I will be more then happy to let you know as fast as possible! promise.

[matray]

Matray,
I wish I could say yes but at this point in time NO. Now this can change and if it does I will be more then happy to let you know as fast as possible! promise.

Neyargh, hopefully they will give arcane casters a boost in the near future. Sad to see if what you say is true and arcane casters won't fullfill any roles.

What about the lich and wraith form? Have you gotten to play around with them yet? Are they something you would find yourself constantly using or are they mostly for situational use? I believe they also change your undead minions?

[Vordox]

Neyargh, hopefully they will give arcane casters a boost in the near future. Sad to see if what you say is true and arcane casters won't fullfill any roles.

What about the lich and wraith form? Have you gotten to play around with them yet? Are they something you would find yourself constantly using or are they mostly for situational use? I believe they also change your undead minions?

I use Lich form all the time it gives you AC and ups your poison and physical spells plus you can breath underwater. you get forms at 30 hope they change that to say 25lvl I think would be better. They dont change your minnions that I'm aware of.

[matray]

I use Lich form all the time it gives you AC and ups your poison and physical spells plus you can breath underwater. you get forms at 30 hope they change that to say 25lvl I think would be better. They dont change your minnions that I'm aware of.

Always been a fan of underwater breathing good to hear you get that with lich form. Sorry for all the questions, all the info I had about necros was from beta 4 or 3. Seems they have changed a lot of about them. For I remember the pets would change depending if you were a lich or a wraith, but that was when you could get the different forms at level 10.

[Vordox]

No problem Matray always happy to help.

[Polkadots]

One thing I wanted to add as race is always brought up.

Dark elves, while stats suggest would be one of the better races have a racial (which summons a pet). It seems as if this pet does not stack with your abomination (although may at higher levels, but seems unlikely).

Not saying it makes this race worthless, as your racial pet can add things such as self and group buffs etc, but it is a something to note before choosing a DE. Race decisions (based on current caps and itemization) are likely to be based on look + racials.

[usuldaneriak]

just a quote from Scarcius the guy who is representing the necs on beta boards. sounds different to me:

Seriously though we do a ton of sustained damage. The problem is not our dots lasting long enough but, the mobs not lasting long enough.

When you start getting in groups taking on 5+ dot mobs log your damage output and take a look at it. Its pretty damn good. You can stack all your DoTs one after another and even get in a nuke or life tap. Your pet is continually pounding away. If you add it all up after the mob drops dead you will probably have been one of the highest dps in the group if it lived awhile. I find myself almost never out of energy grouped either. In fact, that may need some adjustment.

I was in a group the other day and casting like mad and hardly had my energy drop thanks to transomgrify. People in the group got huffy and told me to start doing something because they saw I wasn't using any energy.

...

I think some people are making up their minds before they experience all the necro has to offer. Sure, we aren't the soloing powerhouses we once were but, we all knew that was going away. You should really think about 3 dot even mobs as the highest solo mob and that wont be a easy fight. You might find a weak 4 dot you can swing but, thats outside the norm.

The issue of soloing 4 dot and higher is not a necro issue its a design one. They don't want any class doing it easily or at all really. Everyone has their own opinion on this but, its not something I think they really want to debate. If you're looking for a lass that can solo to max level fast and not have to group for for group mobs you might not find it in VG.

I happen to think we are great in groups and we really shine in raids. The damage I've seen in testing is going to make necros very desired for the end game. They want us to have the highest sustained dps out put of any class and we pretty much do. Sorcerers can go pretty nuts at them moment but, usually end up dying because of it. The new pet damage will up my dps by about 50% I think over before last patch.

We have some pretty serious bugs still but, many classes do. They know about all the big ones and most are waiting on programming to get to. That means it isn't a quick fix. Some are considered lower priority and may not be fixed till after release. Some, like grafts, is such a huge mess they just don't have time before release to address it.

Minus the abomination agro issue, which is being addressed, I think necros are a powerful class and fun to play. When the other bugs get fixed it will be even better. That doesn't mean its perfect. There will still be lots of talk about pet dps, hp, and everything else. This probably isn't close to the last adjustment we'll see.

Curses will be something mobs will start casting on players. Don't need to worry about it now but, when it starts you're going to be happy you have that spell and everyone in your group will be too.

[Vordox]

I'm proud to say Necro is doing better now still some issues but totally playable now as of this writing!

[Dyak]

I'm proud to say Necro is doing better now still some issues but totally playable now as of this writing!

Sweet, could you give us some specifics as to what has been fixed? I really didn't play a Necro too much in beta, mainly because I knew that at launch that it would most likely be my chosen class, as it is for me in all MMO's that have Necromancers that I've played since EQ1.

I know it has been repeatedly said that Vanguard is a group-oriented game, and that's fine with me, but I've always loved how Necromancers in games tend to be the best solo class. I just hope it turns out that way for them in VG even at extremely high levels.

[Scarcius]

Sweet, could you give us some specifics as to what has been fixed? I really didn't play a Necro too much in beta, mainly because I knew that at launch that it would most likely be my chosen class, as it is for me in all MMO's that have Necromancers that I've played since EQ1.

I know it has been repeatedly said that Vanguard is a group-oriented game, and that's fine with me, but I've always loved how Necromancers in games tend to be the best solo class. I just hope it turns out that way for them in VG even at extremely high levels.

I think the big changes lately have been a much needed boost to our abominations damage. There was some adjustments made to all pets and our pets got adjusted in the process. They have been adjusted back to where they are supposed to be (at least for now).

In addition we, had a bug where our abomination only generated agro on misses rather then hits. As you can imagine this was kind of annoying and led to much running away and occasional dying. Its been fixed and works as it should now. There is still some thought that our sneer might need a little more hate generation to it but, we aren't supposed to have a pet that replaces a warrior.

As a bonus we just got a invis vs. undead buff at level 14 called Enshroud and the ability to see-invis added to our forms.

DoT damage got raised for all classes as did mana pools. Some may still need adjustments and fine tuning. Don't be too surprised if it gets some minor adjustments down a little to make up for the big increase in pet dps.

As for the soloing thing. This has constantly been debated but, the target is you kill 2 dot even con mobs easily and 3 dot evens occasionally and with some effort. You may run into a 4 dot you can take with kiting but, it will be the exception rather then the rule.

The higher level mobs hit really hard and have some nasty abilities. You'll certainly need friends to venture into a premiere dungeon or take out a named.

Recent changes to xp curves have made 2 and 3 dot mobs more interesting for xp but, they still don't match a good group in a good spot.

~scarcius hawke

[Melios]

I dont really care why the numbers are falling, the important thing is that they are.

Mostly because they're broken.