aulos
01-17-2007, 05:18 PM
As a person who came to this game BECAUSE of the promise of an engaging crafting system as fuel for a vibrant player-based economy, I just want to put a few concerns out there as to things that could potentially make trouble for both of those promised features.
In general, I'm excited to see what happens AND it is entirely possible some of these things have been/will be addressed and I've just missed it (or it hasn't been stated officially).
1) The broker. TELL US what the plan is with that. BE SPECIFIC. Is it going to span the whole continent? Is there going to be a limit on max price? Limit to how many items you can put up there? Is it going to include directions to player vendors? A world-wide, or even CONTINENT-wide unlimited pricing, large-capacity broker system can EASILY decimate any attempt at player vendoring. And without vendoring, a LOT of the reason for player housing/cities is destroyed as well.
What we get is a combat-only game in which some players occasionally stop fighting to pop out a consumable or two, put it on the "AH" and go back to fighting... while farmers sell their goods to generate money for the dread gold selling (which further destroys the economy).
2) Recipes. At low levels, there is far too little to make. Artificers, for instance, up through level 20, can only make THREE weapons. Staff, martial staff, or club. That's it. What about spears? Bows? Furniture? Jewelry? Tools? Are these going to be added later? Or only available to higher levels?
Problem with that is this--Sigil has stated many times they don't want a game that is "a rush to endgame" for the adventurer. If all the lower levels get to make are three or four things, crafting becomes (that's right) a rush to endgame so they can make something interesting. A level 10 crafter should be able to make a handful of things for levels 1-9 at least. This will help spread the market out (crafters may wish to focus on meeting all the needs of a particular level group, so not every crafter is competing for the "endgame" crowd).
3) Loot/vendors. From what I've seen, decent (not great, but usable) weapons and armor are EXTREMELY common. A sword I loot from a crocodile is may 1 or 2 points behind what I can craft as a blacksmith WITH dust. As such, why would I (as an adventurer) want to spend the money to get the "better" sword from a crafter? Certainly this will get me by almost as well, and I'll outgrow it much faster than the cost would justify.
Or I can go buy my whole suit from a vendor. Sure, the crafted stuff might give me more stats, but a handful of silver for each piece versus at least 50% more so that the crafter can at least cover the work they had to do to make it? I'll get the vendor stuff, thanks.
Make vendor/loot stuff MUCH lower quality than crafted things. Or much more expensive. Give players a REASON to buy things from crafters rather than using loot trash or vendor items. If you want to encourage a PLAYER ECONOMY, don't provide so many NPC means of getting decently geared (the scattering of "uber" loot items are different, i'm talking about the standard adventuring gear).
4) Instead of getting all kinds of uber gear from some of the mid-level bosses roaming around, why not let players loot trophy items? Things they can eventually put in their house. Sigil once noted the "bragging rights" attached to loot ("Oh, he has THAT sword, that means he killed BILL THE MAGNIFICENT"). Having a trophy, like a mounted beast head, in your house carries the SAME bragging rights, but without putting crafters out of a job in one area or another.
5) Increased customization of crafted items. Let the player decide more about the item. I'll use a weapon as an example... maybe crafter A wants to make a spear that puts max damage waaaay up there... but crafter B wants to increase speed and minimum damage for a more dependable weapon... crafter C instead opts to stack stats on the standard stats, so the weapon is basic but the bonuses are awesome. Now the "same" spear has three distinct flavors, so three different adventurers can each use a spear THEIR way.
This does NOT mean you have to change the crafting process, mind you. While you COULD do that, sure, it wouldn't be necessary. Use the dusting system. Instead of dusts always adding stats, make some that increase speed or max damage or range... This way, we avoid a system where "speed means daggers, power means swords." While daggers should always be faster, let players sacrifice some sword power to get a bit more speed, so that someone who loves swords doesn't HAVE to use daggers to get a slightly faster weapon--maybe they just love the look of a sword. Basically, it shouldn't be the case that every player item looks basically the same.
There're my top 5 concerns. If these have already been addressed, I'd love to know I'm just uninformed! If these are addressed at higher levels, consider showing more of that variety and care at lower levels so crafting isn't a "rush to endgame." If they're not addressed at all? Address them!!
In general, I'm excited to see what happens AND it is entirely possible some of these things have been/will be addressed and I've just missed it (or it hasn't been stated officially).
1) The broker. TELL US what the plan is with that. BE SPECIFIC. Is it going to span the whole continent? Is there going to be a limit on max price? Limit to how many items you can put up there? Is it going to include directions to player vendors? A world-wide, or even CONTINENT-wide unlimited pricing, large-capacity broker system can EASILY decimate any attempt at player vendoring. And without vendoring, a LOT of the reason for player housing/cities is destroyed as well.
What we get is a combat-only game in which some players occasionally stop fighting to pop out a consumable or two, put it on the "AH" and go back to fighting... while farmers sell their goods to generate money for the dread gold selling (which further destroys the economy).
2) Recipes. At low levels, there is far too little to make. Artificers, for instance, up through level 20, can only make THREE weapons. Staff, martial staff, or club. That's it. What about spears? Bows? Furniture? Jewelry? Tools? Are these going to be added later? Or only available to higher levels?
Problem with that is this--Sigil has stated many times they don't want a game that is "a rush to endgame" for the adventurer. If all the lower levels get to make are three or four things, crafting becomes (that's right) a rush to endgame so they can make something interesting. A level 10 crafter should be able to make a handful of things for levels 1-9 at least. This will help spread the market out (crafters may wish to focus on meeting all the needs of a particular level group, so not every crafter is competing for the "endgame" crowd).
3) Loot/vendors. From what I've seen, decent (not great, but usable) weapons and armor are EXTREMELY common. A sword I loot from a crocodile is may 1 or 2 points behind what I can craft as a blacksmith WITH dust. As such, why would I (as an adventurer) want to spend the money to get the "better" sword from a crafter? Certainly this will get me by almost as well, and I'll outgrow it much faster than the cost would justify.
Or I can go buy my whole suit from a vendor. Sure, the crafted stuff might give me more stats, but a handful of silver for each piece versus at least 50% more so that the crafter can at least cover the work they had to do to make it? I'll get the vendor stuff, thanks.
Make vendor/loot stuff MUCH lower quality than crafted things. Or much more expensive. Give players a REASON to buy things from crafters rather than using loot trash or vendor items. If you want to encourage a PLAYER ECONOMY, don't provide so many NPC means of getting decently geared (the scattering of "uber" loot items are different, i'm talking about the standard adventuring gear).
4) Instead of getting all kinds of uber gear from some of the mid-level bosses roaming around, why not let players loot trophy items? Things they can eventually put in their house. Sigil once noted the "bragging rights" attached to loot ("Oh, he has THAT sword, that means he killed BILL THE MAGNIFICENT"). Having a trophy, like a mounted beast head, in your house carries the SAME bragging rights, but without putting crafters out of a job in one area or another.
5) Increased customization of crafted items. Let the player decide more about the item. I'll use a weapon as an example... maybe crafter A wants to make a spear that puts max damage waaaay up there... but crafter B wants to increase speed and minimum damage for a more dependable weapon... crafter C instead opts to stack stats on the standard stats, so the weapon is basic but the bonuses are awesome. Now the "same" spear has three distinct flavors, so three different adventurers can each use a spear THEIR way.
This does NOT mean you have to change the crafting process, mind you. While you COULD do that, sure, it wouldn't be necessary. Use the dusting system. Instead of dusts always adding stats, make some that increase speed or max damage or range... This way, we avoid a system where "speed means daggers, power means swords." While daggers should always be faster, let players sacrifice some sword power to get a bit more speed, so that someone who loves swords doesn't HAVE to use daggers to get a slightly faster weapon--maybe they just love the look of a sword. Basically, it shouldn't be the case that every player item looks basically the same.
There're my top 5 concerns. If these have already been addressed, I'd love to know I'm just uninformed! If these are addressed at higher levels, consider showing more of that variety and care at lower levels so crafting isn't a "rush to endgame." If they're not addressed at all? Address them!!