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Mirra
01-18-2007, 02:20 AM
I am trying to do the Sickness in our Midst quest from Leth Nurae. Based on the cards I have chosen, I am 99% confident that it is impossible to win my parley with Celestial Erenai no matter what strategy I use.

The only way I can beat this guy is to switch cards out for new ones with a NPC or buy new ones...neither which I think is possible at skill 38. Can this be done?

Sure wishing I had gotten those different cards during my previous quests,. :rolleyes:

Lalkin
01-18-2007, 04:26 AM
I am trying to do the Sickness in our Midst quest from Leth Nurae. Based on the cards I have chosen, I am 99% confident that it is impossible to win my parley with Celestial Erenai no matter what strategy I use.

The only way I can beat this guy is to switch cards out for new ones with a NPC or buy new ones...neither which I think is possible at skill 38. Can this be done?

Sure wishing I had gotten those different cards during my previous quests,. :rolleyes:

I think eventually you will be able to buy cards (and gear) from vendors using the rewards you get when doing civic diplomacy. Not sure if it has been put it yet though. (there was a bit about diplomacy in tonight's patch but I don't recall exatly what)

Zelos
01-18-2007, 12:57 PM
There is a Statements vendor in Khal, located outside the ring on the east side, just south of the big ridge/wall.

However, before you trek all that way, what about the parley makes you believe it can't be won? Is there a certain card you can't counter?

Mirra
01-18-2007, 01:56 PM
There is a Statements vendor in Khal, located outside the ring on the east side, just south of the big ridge/wall.

However, before you trek all that way, what about the parley makes you believe it can't be won? Is there a certain card you can't counter?


Yeah, there's actually 2 cards that I can't counter. I think my mistake is picking thr wrong cards as some quest rewards. but then again, how can you know? lol

Anyway, I am going to reroll a new one today and try again with some of the cards I passed up.

Zelos
01-18-2007, 03:40 PM
When the NPC comes at me with cards that are too big for me, I try something I call a "low-action parley". The goal of a low-action is to win by not giving the opponent any expression to play those high-end cards.

Once identifying what expression (or expressions) the NPC is going to try to use, I just refuse to play any cards that grant that expression type. In fact, I don't even bring them to the table, replacing them with rebuts and the occasional repeal (the one that activates your 5-point assertion is nice). As long as your rebuttals can recharge at the same speed as their evaluations (admittedly a random element), then you can restrict them to comments and evaluations only. In a low-action parley, it's better to listen than play that comment that gives the enemy their desired expression.

This doesn't always work, but most decks I've run across in the game don't have both the high-end cards AND multiple evaluations. It's the multiple evals that really sinks a low-action parley, because you can't rebut them fast enough.

Mirra
01-18-2007, 05:23 PM
When the NPC comes at me with cards that are too big for me, I try something I call a "low-action parley". The goal of a low-action is to win by not giving the opponent any expression to play those high-end cards.

Once identifying what expression (or expressions) the NPC is going to try to use, I just refuse to play any cards that grant that expression type. In fact, I don't even bring them to the table, replacing them with rebuts and the occasional repeal (the one that activates your 5-point assertion is nice). As long as your rebuttals can recharge at the same speed as their evaluations (admittedly a random element), then you can restrict them to comments and evaluations only. In a low-action parley, it's better to listen than play that comment that gives the enemy their desired expression.

This doesn't always work, but most decks I've run across in the game don't have both the high-end cards AND multiple evaluations. It's the multiple evals that really sinks a low-action parley, because you can't rebut them fast enough.


Yeah, unfortunately I dont have a single card that will give me any number at (other than o or -1) that will not feed him. I was on the server today and noticed 2 other people with the same problem too. I just reported it so hopefully they will take a look at it. I really love diplomacy, sucks being stuck. Which area are you from?

Zelos
01-18-2007, 06:09 PM
My primary diplo is Qaliathari, but I just started a High Elf last night. Got as far as finishing the 'go get the Queen's guard to follow her orders' quest before needing to log off.

My most successful approach as a High Elf so far has been to wear the +1 Flattery gloves from the 3rd High Elf quest, start with Blanket Accusation, which they either counter with Good Point or the 2 influence/charge my reason 2 points card. Whichever they do, I generally use a reason eval to add 2 points to my reason (and one to flattery) and charging them 1. Then next turn I slap my 5 point assertion on them, which means they'll play the 3 point reason back at me - worst case scenario, this has me at 0 influence. Then I play the 3-point Flattery assertion, giving me +3 at worst. Generally at this point, they have 1 demand, 0 reason, 0 inspire and 1 flattery, which isn't enough for them to do anything but comment or evaluate, both of which help me keep the assertions coming - and neither of which is enough to get influence back on their side.

Mirra
01-19-2007, 12:04 AM
My primary diplo is Qaliathari, but I just started a High Elf last night. Got as far as finishing the 'go get the Queen's guard to follow her orders' quest before needing to log off.

My most successful approach as a High Elf so far has been to wear the +1 Flattery gloves from the 3rd High Elf quest, start with Blanket Accusation, which they either counter with Good Point or the 2 influence/charge my reason 2 points card. Whichever they do, I generally use a reason eval to add 2 points to my reason (and one to flattery) and charging them 1. Then next turn I slap my 5 point assertion on them, which means they'll play the 3 point reason back at me - worst case scenario, this has me at 0 influence. Then I play the 3-point Flattery assertion, giving me +3 at worst. Generally at this point, they have 1 demand, 0 reason, 0 inspire and 1 flattery, which isn't enough for them to do anything but comment or evaluate, both of which help me keep the assertions coming - and neither of which is enough to get influence back on their side.

I don't actually have blanket accusation with my high elf. Hmmm....

Did you get past Sickness in our Midst today? it's the skull (Celestial Erenai) that I can't get past.

Zelos
01-19-2007, 12:35 AM
I don't actually have blanket accusation with my high elf. Hmmm....

Did you get past Sickness in our Midst today? it's the skull (Celestial Erenai) that I can't get past.

Yep. Just finished it.
And I know you don't want to hear this, but the next parley after C'estari is the challenging one. The skeletal head is just a speedbump compared to Highborne A'eox. :)

In any case, I beat the speedbump on my first attempt, albeit closely. I brought: Infallible Proof (the 5-influence reason assertion), Aggressive Statement, Enticing Whisper (the demand and flattery 3-influence assertions), Line of Reasoning and Maze of Logic (a pair of 2-point reason Evaluations). I just spammed the evaluations at him and used the assertions as possible. There were more than a few 5-point influences being tossed around. The key here is DON'T bring the 3-point reason assertion. It recharges too slowly - you should be getting about 8 influence per every 4 rounds, with the 5-card firing and one of the two 3s firing.

As for Highborne A'eox, well, now he was tough. However, I did invent a new strategy that seems incredibly powerful. It was able to dispatch Mr. Aeox handily enough. It's a little something I'm calling Reason Overload :)

Mirra
01-19-2007, 01:02 AM
Yep. Just finished it.
And I know you don't want to hear this, but the next parley after C'estari is the challenging one. The skeletal head is just a speedbump compared to Highborne A'eox. :)

In any case, I beat the speedbump on my first attempt, albeit closely. I brought: Infallible Proof (the 5-influence reason assertion), Aggressive Statement, Enticing Whisper (the demand and flattery 3-influence assertions), Line of Reasoning and Maze of Logic (a pair of 2-point reason Evaluations). I just spammed the evaluations at him and used the assertions as possible. There were more than a few 5-point influences being tossed around. The key here is DON'T bring the 3-point reason assertion. It recharges too slowly - you should be getting about 8 influence per every 4 rounds, with the 5-card firing and one of the two 3s firing.

As for Highborne A'eox, well, now he was tough. However, I did invent a new strategy that seems incredibly powerful. It was able to dispatch Mr. Aeox handily enough. It's a little something I'm calling Reason Overload :)

Okay, here is my problem....every single person I spoke to today who beat Erenai, used Aggressive Statement. I do NOT have this card and I think ym problem lies with that. I even have screen shots of his cards and mine and mathematically I do not see a solution. Where on earth does Agressive Statement come from and how did I miss it? (High Elf)

Zelos
01-19-2007, 01:09 AM
I don't actually have blanket accusation with my high elf. Hmmm....

Did you get past Sickness in our Midst today? it's the skull (Celestial Erenai) that I can't get past.

Okay, here is my problem....every single person I spoke to today who beat Erenai, used Aggressive Statement. I do NOT have this card and I think ym problem lies with that. I even have screen shots of his cards and mine and mathematically I do not see a solution. Where on earth does Agressive Statement come from and how did I miss it? (High Elf)

Aggressive Statement, Loud Criticism and Enticing Whisper were all given to me on the third quest - the one where the starter trainer sends you to the Captain standing by the reflecting pool.

If you are bugged and didn't get the card, a vendor in Khal (outside the ring, east-northeast side of town) will sell it to you.

Mirra
01-19-2007, 01:17 AM
Aggressive Statement, Loud Criticism and Enticing Whisper were all given to me on the third quest - the one where the starter trainer sends you to the Captain standing by the reflecting pool.

If you are bugged and didn't get the card, a vendor in Khal (outside the ring, east-northeast side of town) will sell it to you.

Nope, I have none of those cards. And someone asked me how many cards I had and I was 3 short of her on the same quest and level, so that makes sense.

The screwy thing is, this is my second charcter on this quest, lol.

Mirra
01-19-2007, 01:32 AM
Nope, I have none of those cards. And someone asked me how many cards I had and I was 3 short of her on the same quest and level, so that makes sense.

The screwy thing is, this is my second charcter on this quest, lol.


Aaargh, lol...2 days on ONE quest. Got to love Beta. How on earth do I get to the place to buy these cards. NO ONE seems to know where it is. :(

Zelos
01-19-2007, 02:21 AM
Aaargh, lol...2 days on ONE quest. Got to love Beta. How on earth do I get to the place to buy these cards. NO ONE seems to know where it is. :(

From Leth Nurae, find the NPC "Gate Mistress" with the white name (everyone else is yellow) outside the Arcane Sanctum. Ask her to teleport you to New Targonor. You will appear on the docks of New Targ. Ask the dockmaster to get you a boat to Tawar Galan/Kojan.

Once you arrive in Tawar Galan, run up the froofy wood elf bridge to the land, head northwest along the beach and look for another froofy bridge out to a platform on the water. That's the dock for Khal. Ask the NPC there to take you.

Once in Khal, head up the docks to the sidewalk above. The statement vendor is roughly on the other side of that big curved wall in front of you. A little ways to the south is the Tavern, which passes through the ring to the far side. Head through the tavern (warning, lag monster!) and the statement vendor should be along the wall just to the north.

Mirra
01-19-2007, 02:54 AM
From Leth Nurae, find the NPC "Gate Mistress" with the white name (everyone else is yellow) outside the Arcane Sanctum. Ask her to teleport you to New Targonor. You will appear on the docks of New Targ. Ask the dockmaster to get you a boat to Tawar Galan/Kojan.

Once you arrive in Tawar Galan, run up the froofy wood elf bridge to the land, head northwest along the beach and look for another froofy bridge out to a platform on the water. That's the dock for Khal. Ask the NPC there to take you.

Once in Khal, head up the docks to the sidewalk above. The statement vendor is roughly on the other side of that big curved wall in front of you. A little ways to the south is the Tavern, which passes through the ring to the far side. Head through the tavern (warning, lag monster!) and the statement vendor should be along the wall just to the north.

*breaks down sobbing*

4 hours later...the vendor doesn't have it, rofl. :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell:

Mirra
01-20-2007, 12:31 AM
Update :D

Okay, so I rerolled my THIRD character for diplomacy today. I did not get those cards as a quest reward but I did notice that I had them. I also noticed the red card that my old characters had, I do not have on the new one. I was speaking to another player today who also did not have Agressive Statement. All I can guess is that at some point, high elves get a red card, but not necessarily the same one for everyone. Anyway, I had no problems beating the skull once I got the set you mentioned above (well, okay...so it still took me 2 attempts, but we won't go there :P).

Highborn guy is tough. I DID notice he has the exact same cards the skull has so I was going to try the same strategy, but we just got booted. Aaargh. lol

Anyway, thanks for your help in all of this. I will have to point out in the quest log after that they need to re-evaluate this quest. As long as you have the cards you mentioned, it is still tough but ceretainly do-able. But no way with that old set I had. If you hadn't pointed that out, I would have never known. :D

Absalon
01-24-2007, 03:11 PM
Update :D

Okay, so I rerolled my THIRD character for diplomacy today. I did not get those cards as a quest reward but I did notice that I had them. I also noticed the red card that my old characters had, I do not have on the new one. I was speaking to another player today who also did not have Agressive Statement. All I can guess is that at some point, high elves get a red card, but not necessarily the same one for everyone. Anyway, I had no problems beating the skull once I got the set you mentioned above (well, okay...so it still took me 2 attempts, but we won't go there :P).

Highborn guy is tough. I DID notice he has the exact same cards the skull has so I was going to try the same strategy, but we just got booted. Aaargh. lol

Anyway, thanks for your help in all of this. I will have to point out in the quest log after that they need to re-evaluate this quest. As long as you have the cards you mentioned, it is still tough but ceretainly do-able. But no way with that old set I had. If you hadn't pointed that out, I would have never known. :D

During the first 2 quests you are supposed to get your comments (based on adventuring class) and your primary evaluations and assertions (based on race). By the end of the 2nd tutorial, you should have (I think) 3 comments, 2 evaluations and 2 assertions (3 and 5 influence based on your race). When you accept the 3rd quest, you have given the 3 influence assertions in the other 3 expression types that you are missing. They don't get put into your inventory, you just learn them like you did most of the other cards.

It won't be a help to you now that beta is over, but there was a statement vendor in BC as well as Khal. In Khal, there was another NPC next to the statement vendor that gives out "missing" cards, so he may have been the one you wanted. I don't remember there being a similar NPC in BC.