Disciple Damage:Too Much To Be Safe?

[Bartho]

Hey after playing w/ a level 30 disciple through the level-bots and decided to go explore, found some level 35 stuff and attacked it.

So I'm fighting it and holding my own fairly well, i see my chain pops up and use
palm of discord (i believe is the name, also with bare fists) and the thing crits almost every time while Im unarmed and hits for well over 1400+ and hit over 1700+ with a bard.

Anyone else think this is going to cause agro problems? Or is it just a solo-situation finisher?:confused:

Solo Crit, No Bard
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2277/bigglediscrit6dl.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigglediscrit6dl.jpg)

Bard-aided Crit
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/700/biggerdisccritwbard5hv.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=biggerdisccritwbard5hv.jpg)


edit: these hits were much harder then a level 30 monk > >

[swerv]

So use the minus aggro punch every now and then. You don't have to use your most powerful attacks all the time. Use your head instead ;)

[Friedrich]

You are fighting solo difficulty mobs, why would you be afraid of having aggro? Just kill the thing. The damage isnt that extreme, other classes are putting out higher numbers. As said before, there are aggro reduction styles. Congratulations on getting betabuffed from 1 to 30 and being surprised your damage increased?

[Lalkin]

1700 dmg at lvl 30 is nothing. The real dmg dealers (rangers is who I witnessed) were hitting for 3000.

Plus remember that the good finisher has a 20s recast. otherwise you have to use the othe one that is about 20% less damage.

Having played a dsc for a couple hours at 30 I didn't feel our damage was high at all. Sure we can kill solo mobs. Heck we can kill 3 dot if we want to spend the 5-7 minutes. Of course if the mob decides to run it is impossible to kill it. Just have to hope it doesn't bring friends after it is done running.

To be honest I think we need a snare or stun or something. It gets really frustrating when a mob starts running and you end up missing 60% of your attacks due to lag. Plus mobs seem to regen faster when they run. Makes it a waste of time to try and kill runners.

[swerv]

It depends how much health they have when they run, if it's a very small amount then you should not neglect your shuriken skills ;)

[Lalkin]

It depends how much health they have when they run, if it's a very small amount then you should not neglect your shuriken skills ;)

That is true. I wished for some ranged weapons in my inventory. Too bad the buffer only gave you 10 silver. Made buying stuff to flesh out your equipement a bit rough.

Although, even with a ranged weapon I don't think it would have helped most of the time. Mobs seem to run at 20% health or so. Sometimes they'll run later, how they determine when to run is anyone's guess. :cool:

[Bartho]

seems todays patch lessened palm of discords damage

[Friedrich]

seems todays patch lessened palm of discords damage

Sounds great as long as other classes finishing moves got knocked back in line as well. To be honest I think its a bit daft to be auto attacking for 80 damage or whatever and then dropping 1200 crit damage finishers.

edit- If it was scaled back, it was minor. I guess I need to just learn to accept this massive damage finishers.

[Lalkin]

seems todays patch lessened palm of discords damage

Not that I noticed. In fact the only real change I saw today was the lack of energy cost on attacks and a few more of my spells has graphics. (still missing a few spell graphics though)

Now one thing I'm wondering about is how much they will change the game between now and release. With these massive patches every day changing entrie classes at a time the game may be unrecognizable come release! :D

OK, just a SLIGHT exageration.... :rolleyes:

Man, I still want to roll a DSC at release but BRD is a temptation.... Guess I have several days to decide. :D

[Blightless]

The massive damage finishers are a part of the game. It is to rewards people for keeping track of combat rather than just spamming an attack, and it also gives multiple approaches to combat.

Do you use your powerful, expensive attack, or do you spam your weak one. The powerful one will do more damage, but the weak attack gives you more chances to try and get that crit, which will let tou do the finisher (unless you screw up and miss it)

And if you think a 1500 finishing move is disgusting, look at the necro at 35. I could be wrong with these numbers, but I will go conservative from what I remember.
5k instantly.
7K over 60 seconds
11k over 10 minutes.

There is a 5 minute cool down, but that is a boatload of damage if you use it on a tough enemy thats going to take a bit of time to take down.


As far as aggro, there are enough ways to manage this as a disciple, and aggro can be a good thing. There are some very usefull abilities that rely on you having aggro (namely your counters off of feint and dodge).

[Absalon]

The damage on the finishers is fine. The problem is that unarmed crits way too often. It makes using Clarity completely unnecessary. It makes raising Dexterity unnecessary. And it make wielding a 2h weapon a really bad idea.

They need to balance the crit rates across all weapon types. With unarmed and fist weapons having a naturally higher crit rate than 2h weapons, why would anyone who can dual wield not do so given the crit/finisher system?

Other than that, I think disciples are fine.

[skeeby]

i thought only disciples and monks got the unarmed crit bonus? i could be wrong...

[Lalkin]

The damage on the finishers is fine. The problem is that unarmed crits way too often. It makes using Clarity completely unnecessary. It makes raising Dexterity unnecessary. And it make wielding a 2h weapon a really bad idea.


I actually disagree about this. Being unarmed has one major disadvantage. You don't have any stat/spell damage/heal bonus/etc. on your bare fists.

I think it is cool that I can go mano y mano with a beastie if I want.

Personally, I think I'll go unarmed when soloing and in groups I'll use a weapon that gives me the best bonuses. Because while we do decent damage, in a group the DPS classes will compeltely trump us and I'll want to maximize my ability to keep them alive.

[Telka]

Dis shares the single greatest aggro reducing effect in the game feign death... success = loss all hate :P

[Sick]

Dis shares the single greatest aggro reducing effect in the game feign death... success = loss all hate :P

I never really had a aggro problem playing my disc.I played one to 23 before the revamp.Which means no Feign Death.

As far as the dmg.I've seen a lvl 15 rogue do 1800 dmg.Granted he said it was an exception crit,but 15 lvl's is a big difference.lvl 15 monk criting for 600-1k each hand.How you can say a lvl 30 monk doesnt compare is beyond me.

BTW if we lose the crit bonus we'll be almsot right back where we started dmg wise.Most of my non crit hits are lame.

[Desdemona]

I never really had a aggro problem playing my disc.I played one to 23 before the revamp.Which means no Feign Death.

As far as the dmg.I've seen a lvl 15 rogue do 1800 dmg.Granted he said it was an exception crit,but 15 lvl's is a big difference.lvl 15 monk criting for 600-1k each hand.How you can say a lvl 30 monk doesnt compare is beyond me.

BTW if we lose the crit bonus we'll be almsot right back where we started dmg wise.Most of my non crit hits are lame.


The crit rate that we currently have is pretty much required for our class to function properly. You have to remember that we depend a lot on chains for our some of our better heals - before critting didn't matter, we used skills in an order and obtained a chain. Now they switched us to the crit-chain system which means that in order to get a big heal off in a timely fashion we MUST crit and we must do it often.

Our finishers aren't like other classes were they just do uber damage. Ours are a key component that defines our class.

If our crit rate gets nerfed we're in trouble.

I would have rather stayed on the old system personally. It avoids problems like this of people seeing us crit a lot and saying "waa! disciples do too much damage now!" - We don't. Our crit hits on normal attacks are as much as some classes normally hit for. Our crit damage on finishers is lower than other classes damage finishers. AND most of our finishers are on cooldowns so the high crit rate doesn't even matter that much.