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Borlil
01-30-2007, 09:56 AM
I am trying to get thru the Trial of the Glade quest as a wood-elf and I have run up against a deck I cannot seem to get past. I am supposed to interview 6 characters and the third on has a deck with four, no cost, 2Influence cards and one, 3demand, 4influence card (flurry of arguments). This happens whichever char I try and interview...they all seem to have the same deck at that point. My problem is that no matter what deck I use I can never catch up or get ahead of them. I tried for over an hour last night and about 45 minutes the night before. Most of my cards give a demand (red) and sometimes a Yellow. The green cards are locked out of this parlay. As a wood elf I have predominately red cards but the mob never gives me any red. If I use my zero(0) influence cards to build up my demand then I get slammed with flurry of arguments. If someone has gotten past this (and I sure most of you have) could you please pass on some advice before I give up on diplomacy. I really like what I have seen so far and hate to just quit but if I can't get past this then I will have to. Thanks for any help. :confused:

waivren
01-30-2007, 10:22 AM
Yeah, they have some tough encounters - and the problem is you have to almost completely ignore what the tutorial tried to teach you. Granted, my advice is based on how I cleared this type of parley in Tanvu, but here goes:


You notice that the oppenent has no cost for his cards - therefore, it doesn't matter if you give him expression or not. Your goal has to be gaining influence every possible round. So, you want cards that have no cost for you and have short recast timers. I had three such cards. I filled in the other two slots with the best balanced cards for short-recast, low cost, and an influence hit. Play your timers. Also, once you have this type of deck setup, if you see that you make progress but can't quite win, try starting with a different card.

I hope that helps. That advice worked for another player last night in Ca'ial Brael. Good Luck! :D

Borlil
01-30-2007, 12:55 PM
ok let me expand on my problem. My 2 influence card is green which is blocked out for this parlay. I have only two other cards with zero cost each one provides 1 Influence and does not give me anything. I have 3 cards that give 3 Influence 1 red (cost 2r), 1Blue (cost 2b) and 1yellow (cost 2Y). All three of the 3 Influence cards are on 3-5 timers. None of the 3 influence cards give me anything. I played this deck several times and I never regain the lead once I play my first card. I do not see how I can ever get the lead without a 2Influence card and that one is blocked. If I lead with a 1 influence card, he leads with a 2 influence...point to him. I can then play my second 1 influence card and we are even until he uses his second 2 influence card...point to him. Normally I can play a 3I card (usually Blue)which he counters with a 4I card using the 3 reds I have given him at this point...he is one on his side point to him. By the fourth round he is up by at least three points and we start to repeat the above sequence since my timers are starting to come back. If I had a 2I card I suspect I could win but without one I do not see any hope. Any other ideas?

Absalon
01-30-2007, 01:17 PM
ok let me expand on my problem. My 2 influence card is green which is blocked out for this parlay.

Which 2 influence card? Are you talking about Snippet of Wisdom? That is a comment. Comments can be played in any conversation type. The only cards that are blocked are cards that have a cost associated with them, like Assertions and Repeals. You can play any comments, rebuts and evaluations that you want in any conversation type.

Very often I will use one of my evaluations in a parley, even if the main expression type of the evaluation is blocked, because the one evaluation I have also gives me 1 of another color. I'm a goblin, so I am Reason based, but I have an evaluation called Line of Reasoning which gives me 2 reason and 1 flattery, and 1 reason to the NPC. I will sometimes use it in Gossips (which blocks reason) in order to give me extra flattery.

Borlil
01-30-2007, 01:26 PM
Slaps head very hard!!!! I have never heard that before or if I did it went right over my head. So tonight I will try once again and see if that helps...I suspect it will help a bunch. :o

waivren
01-30-2007, 05:50 PM
Yeah, I was under the same misconception for a while until I noticed the Tanvu Honored Deceased (stubborn bastard) was using Inspire cards in an inspire-prohibited encounter. Might be another thing to flesh out in the tutorial... /poke Aruspex. :D

NeilPearson
01-30-2007, 06:09 PM
Slaps head very hard!!!! I have never heard that before or if I did it went right over my head. So tonight I will try once again and see if that helps...I suspect it will help a bunch. :o

As a woodelf, I am in the same position as you. I did play my 2 influence card though... it helps but not enough. It seems like they give you tons of blue and yellow when you need red. The 3-5 blue and yellow cards are just not fast enough.

Absalon
01-30-2007, 06:31 PM
As a woodelf, I am in the same position as you. I did play my 2 influence card though... it helps but not enough. It seems like they give you tons of blue and yellow when you need red. The 3-5 blue and yellow cards are just not fast enough.

That's where repeals come in handy, if you have them. If not, check your trainer, he may have a quest for you. If he doesn't, well, the parley you are doing may be bugged :)

One favorite strategy of mine is to choose repeals that feed one into the other. When you do the Repeal quest, the trainer will give you a Repeal when you accept the quest, and then you get to choose another at the end.

Let's say for example I am a demand based race and the repeal I am given converts Reason to Demand. Upon completing the quest, I like to choose the Repeal that will convert something else into Reason, so it will feed the first repeal. Assuming that 2nd card converts Inspire to Reason, I can take 2 Inspire from the NPC and turn it into 2 Reason and 4 Demand by playing both repeals.

Anka
01-30-2007, 08:17 PM
That's where repeals come in handy, if you have them. If not, check your trainer, he may have a quest for you. If he doesn't, well, the parley you are doing may be bugged :)

One favorite strategy of mine is to choose repeals that feed one into the other. When you do the Repeal quest, the trainer will give you a Repeal when you accept the quest, and then you get to choose another at the end.

Let's say for example I am a demand based race and the repeal I am given converts Reason to Demand. Upon completing the quest, I like to choose the Repeal that will convert something else into Reason, so it will feed the first repeal. Assuming that 2nd card converts Inspire to Reason, I can take 2 Inspire from the NPC and turn it into 2 Reason and 4 Demand by playing both repeals.


You haven't gotten the repeals just yet when you get this quest. What I believe I did was to have one short timer demand evaluation, one short timer demand assertion, two comments and then another assertion. and then always gain influence if I can.

And yes, it IS frustrating as hell. They could do well to loose one or two of their comments, or get some that has slower turnover rate.

Borlil
01-31-2007, 09:48 AM
Thanks for all of the help folks. I made it thru this encounter last night. I had in my deck the 2I card (green) as well as all of the 1I cards I owned. They are all on 1-3 timers except the 2I card which is a 3-3 timer. By playing the 2I card first and then the 1I cards every time I could I was able to beat the mob fairly easily. I also had my one 3I demand card that costs 2 red and used it once I think. It goes against the training rules but against my deck he never used any cards which cost him anything...all he used were the 2I no cost cards. I hope this helps someone else not have to go thru the initial frustration I went thru. As far as I am concerned, knowing I could use the comment cards even when their color is blocked out made all the difference and should be made clearer earlier on in the tutorial. :D

waivren
01-31-2007, 10:13 AM
Thanks for all of the help folks. I made it thru this encounter last night. I had in my deck the 2I card (green) as well as all of the 1I cards I owned. They are all on 1-3 timers except the 2I card which is a 3-3 timer. By playing the 2I card first and then the 1I cards every time I could I was able to beat the mob fairly easily. I also had my one 3I demand card that costs 2 red and used it once I think. It goes against the training rules but against my deck he never used any cards which cost him anything...all he used were the 2I no cost cards. I hope this helps someone else not have to go thru the initial frustration I went thru. As far as I am concerned, knowing I could use the comment cards even when their color is blocked out made all the difference and should be made clearer earlier on in the tutorial. :D


Congrats! And I agree, there should be some additional prep for this sort of encounter in the tutorial - maybe a phase 3 added? The kicker is that this seems to directly precede your acquirement of the Repeals cards. Seems like maybe the NPC should educate you about Repeals first and then send you off... Either way, this encounter is certainly a learning experience. Maybe it's a tough-love tutorial. Heh. :)