VG clerics are right on.

[Yirkin]

I just got done in a really fun group and want to post here to say how incredibly pleased I am with VG.

Being a cleric is a pleasure in this game. Having an offensive and defense target is a dream come true. I can keep my defensive target and still have an /assist macro so that I can jump into the melee.

I've been really hesitant about getting into the thick of things in battle but now that the controls are getting more natural with practice, the process is becoming really fluid.

On a side note, adding the distance and direction indicator to the group member list is amazingly helpful.

Thanks much for the forward thinking vision. The pieces are falling into place very nicely. =)

[Piety]

/agree

I'm still just a baby cleric at the moment, however it's the best time I've had yet with a low end Cleric. If what I've heard and read about the future of my lil' healer is true then I think Vanguard has really struck an excellent balance.

[kraznor]

/agree

I'm still just a baby cleric at the moment, however it's the best time I've had yet with a low end Cleric. If what I've heard and read about the future of my lil' healer is true then I think Vanguard has really struck an excellent balance.

Well, duh. When you're playing the class that needs a huge nerf more than any other? Ya, I'd say you're having fun.

Class balance is usually about having strengths AND weaknesses. ATM, clerics have 0 weakness, they can melee, have tops armor, heal the best, great buffs, and good spell dmg.

The nerf bat will be swinging soon, oh you can count on it. :cool:

[AsheMan]

Well, duh. When you're playing the class that needs a huge nerf more than any other? Ya, I'd say you're having fun.

Class balance is usually about having strengths AND weaknesses. ATM, clerics have 0 weakness, they can melee, have tops armor, heal the best, great buffs, and good spell dmg.

The nerf bat will be swinging soon, oh you can count on it. :cool:

You mean to say clerics are not the lowest dps class in the entire game? I thought we were. What class is lower?

[Vidrak]

You mean to say clerics are not the lowest dps class in the entire game? I thought we were. What class is lower?
CLR are powerful, but so is every other healer. Apparently he plays a DSC, or some other class and thinks that his legendary fists are not OP'd.

Please, tell me, what healer is not a complete powerhouse in almost every situation? It is the basis of healing. We have 100x the HP as any other archetype, how are you every supposed to die? :P

And kranzor, you make it sound like we kill fast, have awesome spell damage and the best heals. IMO, a BMG is the best healer in the game (as far as lasting ability, they go down fast, but have basically infinite heals). So, you are wrong there.

CLR has way worse melee skills than a DSC, WAY WORSE! So, there is lie number 2.

CLR have good spell dmg? Lol, we have like 2 offensive spells. BMG and SHM can outdo us easily with spell DMG. Do you have any clue what your talking about?

We have a nice balance of melee and spells at our disposal, but by no means are we the BEST at any of them. The only thing we have better than any other class is armor and survivability. Even then, there are a lot of things other classes have that IMO are pretty damn nice too (like FD, and the shaman heal that makes you invul for 4s, massive run speed buffs, etc.) There are a lot of nice abilities, and I don't really see other healers having problems killing the same stuff us CLR's can.

[Akaizhar]

Well, duh. When you're playing the class that needs a huge nerf more than any other? Ya, I'd say you're having fun.

Class balance is usually about having strengths AND weaknesses. ATM, clerics have 0 weakness, they can melee, have tops armor, heal the best, great buffs, and good spell dmg.

The nerf bat will be swinging soon, oh you can count on it. :cool:

Lets nerf the people that keep you alive! Wow, best idea ever...:rolleyes:

I agree with the OP, Clerics are great in this game. Sigil nailed this one on the head.

[kraznor]

CLR are powerful, but so is every other healer. Apparently he plays a DSC, or some other class and thinks that his legendary fists are not OP'd.

Please, tell me, what healer is not a complete powerhouse in almost every situation? It is the basis of healing. We have 100x the HP as any other archetype, how are you every supposed to die? :P

And kranzor, you make it sound like we kill fast, have awesome spell damage and the best heals. IMO, a BMG is the best healer in the game (as far as lasting ability, they go down fast, but have basically infinite heals). So, you are wrong there.

CLR has way worse melee skills than a DSC, WAY WORSE! So, there is lie number 2.

CLR have good spell dmg? Lol, we have like 2 offensive spells. BMG and SHM can outdo us easily with spell DMG. Do you have any clue what your talking about?

We have a nice balance of melee and spells at our disposal, but by no means are we the BEST at any of them. The only thing we have better than any other class is armor and survivability. Even then, there are a lot of things other classes have that IMO are pretty damn nice too (like FD, and the shaman heal that makes you invul for 4s, massive run speed buffs, etc.) There are a lot of nice abilities, and I don't really see other healers having problems killing the same stuff us CLR's can.

1) Considering BMG is cloth wearer? Then I'd say the are not a complete powerhouse in every situation. As I stated, balance is about weakness and strength. Can you point out ONE weakness for a cleric? No, they are above average in nearly everything. It may be your opinion that a BMG is a better healer, but that doesn't make it correct. Cleric has much more healing sustainability than any other class.

2) I was with a level 20 cleric last nite. He had MELEE crits for > 575. How exactly is that lame dps? Hell, even HE said he needs nerfing in the public channel!

3) Your main nuke (repeatable) is not that much less than shamans or BMGs. 10% difference if that. The cleric I was with pulled with it, and hit on average for 300hp per pull. Hardly gimp nuke, wouldn't you say?

4) Again, show me a WEAKNESS. They don't have one. Nearly every other class does. Let me show you-

Tanks, rogue, bard - weak vs. ranged

Offensive Casters - weak vs. melee (except sorc with his aoe, but let's not go there)

Healers -

BMG - cloth armor, EXTREMELY weak vs. melee
Disc - Med armor, avg vs melee, weak vs. ranged
Shaman - won't go there cus not very weak either

The cleric has no visible weakness atm. They can tank, dps, heal. Normally classes are good at ONE of those, cleric can do all three, and that's called unbalanced.

I'm sorry if you're a cleric and don't want to hear it, but the clerics that play pvp know how rediculous it is.

Ask any cleric that has soloed a 4 dot even con, they can tell you.

Then ask another class that can solo a 4 dot even con... cus you won't find one.

[AsheMan]

1)
The cleric has no visible weakness atm. They can tank, dps, heal. Normally classes are good at ONE of those, cleric can do all three, and that's called unbalanced.

I'm sorry if you're a cleric and don't want to hear it, but the clerics that play pvp know how rediculous it is.

Ask any cleric that has soloed a 4 dot even con, they can tell you.

Then ask another class that can solo a 4 dot even con... cus you won't find one.

A cleric's weakness is his DPS and we are weak against magic attacks. We have the lowest damage output per second in the entire game. Sure we can get a crit on an ability and chain that crit and hit for 500! Wow that happens every few fights and is luck based. Do you think that cleric soloing 4-dots is making better/faster exp than other classes? Wrong. It takes a long time to kill that 4-dot. We have great survivability and can slowly take it down.

I'm guessing your experience is primarily on a PVP server. I think balancing out classes based off PVP experience is a silly argument. Vanguard is primarily PVE based.

[Piety]

The class in most need of a Nerf? o.O
I don't think so.

Clerics have respectable enough damage to solo, but their strength comes from keeping themselves and others alive. If you are looking for good DPS from a cleric then perhaps you should go find another class to play.

I roll with a Sorcerer and a Psionicist, and for the most part I run around behind them and clean up the greasy smears that they leave on the ground.

My value to the group does not come from the DPS that I provide (I pray for adds cause it's the only time I get to go in and melee, till one of them notices the add and nukes it into the ground) but rather from the heals that I provide. They would not be able to accomplish as much as they do if I were not there, because when the mob does not cooperate by hurling themselves to the ground before getting to us, I have to work fast to keep my groupmates alive.

Sigil has learned a lot by the things that previous MMO's have done right and what they have done wrong.

[Piety]

I think balancing out classes based off PVP experience is a silly argument. Vanguard is primarily PVE based.

AMEN to that one.

[Irrukathus]

Do you think that cleric soloing 4-dots is making better/faster exp than other classes? Wrong. It takes a long time to kill that 4-dot. We have great survivability and can slowly take it down.

It doesn't really make a difference how long it take or how much xp he gets from fights like that. It is the fact he can do it at all! No other class can! The ability to fight mobs at a difficulty level that no other class can sure sounds unbalanced to me.

[Carni]

It doesn't really make a difference how long it take or how much xp he gets from fights like that. It is the fact he can do it at all! No other class can! The ability to fight mobs at a difficulty level that no other class can sure sounds unbalanced to me.


here's my cleric soloing a 4 dot

resist
resist
stunned
resist
interrupted
interrupted
resist
resist
stunned
resist
resist
you cast divine shield
you cast sprint

[Serosha]

here's my cleric soloing a 4 dot

resist
resist
stunned
resist
interrupted
interrupted
resist
resist
stunned
resist
resist
you cast divine shield
you cast sprint
This sounds vaguely familiar.. hrmm

lol but on the topic of cleric, I love the class. In the past I loved clerics from D&D games, especially NWN epic clerics. Always said if a game came out that had clerics that didn't suck I would totally play cleric as my main in that game even though I prefer playing tank or nuker. It has been years since I have played healer as my main, damn last healer I played was a AC2 lugian sage heh...

[Vidrak]

Ask any cleric that has soloed a 4 dot even con, they can tell you.

Then ask another class that can solo a 4 dot even con... cus you won't find one.
See there we go, it comes out. Your a PVPer and got blasted down one too many times by a CLR. A little bitter are we?

Also, seeing that you have not played a CLR and just spout off all of this BS about how awesome they are, shows just how little you know.

The one thing CLR have is sustainability in the sense of NOT DYING. BMG/SHM/DSC have way, way better ways of keeping up mana. Hell, DSC don't even use mana. I don't know how you can say we "sustain" the best as far as a healing roles goes. We are good, but I wouldn't say better than any other healer.

You say we have good DPS? This right here shoes you know absolutely nothing. We are the straight up worst DPS in the game most likely. The ONLY reason we can kill anything is heals and good defenses, which is the whole point of the class.

You say other classes can't solo 4-dot mobs? Maybe they just don't know how to play. My DSC and SHM friends solo 2-3 3-dots at once, and 4-dot mobs all the time. Yes, I can do it as a CLR, but it isn't just CLR ... again, you don't know what your talking about.

Here is the problem with this game. They made healers fun to play, finally! To make them fun to play, they had to give them more DPS than they have had in any other game, as well as have the healing power to keep a raid/group tank alive. You merge a boost in DPS of at least 3x-5x (from other games) and awesome heals, and what do you get? A whole archetype that can solo just about any mob below the Yellow con mark.

You, sir, don't have much of a clue how the other healer classes do. But they can fare the same way, it isn't just CLR's. I would agree that this is OP'd overall in the healing spectrum, but I don't see a way to change this? You want them to just be reduced to heal bots again? I will quit this game, and I am sure 80% of the healers out there will too. Then what? Then you don't have a group ever.

Finally, a time when we can do something besides heal, and everyone whines and complains about it. It would be like removing every bard spell/ability in the game except 1 song. It would be like removing every ranger ability and giving them a couple bow attacks. There is more to this game than just "Be my healer slave", thank goodness. And I don't really see how they can change this without ruining the entire healing archetype.

Even then, balancing this game for solo/PVP is not what anyone wants to happen. I would rather have people be OP'd more at soloing and have group content fun. I mean seriously, would I rather solo a 4-dot for 10mins, or group with some people and kill most 50x faster and get more exp/loot/named out of it? It is a no-brainer. Healers might solo the random 4-dot on quests, but we are here for one main thing, and that is grouping, which is where we really shine.

For all the people that think CLR are the only ones that can solo 4-dots, you need to wake the hell up. As all the healers and I am sure a RNG, BRD, NEC can do it, easily, can as well. I am sure there will be a pass soon anyways, but CLR are not the only ones, I don't see how you can argue with this.

[Vidrak]

It doesn't really make a difference how long it take or how much xp he gets from fights like that. It is the fact he can do it at all! No other class can! The ability to fight mobs at a difficulty level that no other class can sure sounds unbalanced to me.
Other classes can, this is where you completely fail the test of knowing anything about the classes in this game. Try again!

[Rollo]

Kraznor, having class envy, and asking to nerf another class are always mistakes. You never ask to have another class nerfed. Especially when you don't even know what you are talking about.

Cleric weakness... DPS output, both melee and spell. We are not as mana efficient as some of the other healers. Clerics are all defense. Sigil keeps track of all the numbers. They know you are exaggerating.

BMG are more powerful than a cleric and BMG's will tell you so.

A paladin, necro, and bard might be able to solo a 4-dot. I sure can't. I have not seen a cleric (after game release) do it either.

We are not the best healing class and tanks can tell you that. But we are not the worse either.

Sigil has stated that they will not break the game or a class in the name of "balance". Some classes will just be better at certain things than others. Learn to live with it.

VG is a PvE game. PvP will always take a backseat.

[Xtinct]

Wow, for once a healer is fun to play and some tool wants it nerfed. I love these folks. You know who these folks are by the ones sitting in region chat for hours begging for a healer to come join them.

That's what most folks that aren't healers want. They want all the healers to sit tehre in one big pile just begging to group. Sorry bud, but healers don't need to sit around and wait anymore. They are fun to play and can do things on their own if needed.

Based on your points regarding a cleric, you know little to nothing about the class. I'm sure you will come up with some BS about Shaman's needing a nerf as well.

I can assure you of this (as someone else posted). The moment the healing classes get nerfed back to a healbot, this game will be done. Nobody in their right mind wants to sit back and play healbot anymore.

Healers are one of the most needed components in a game, and without the fun attatched, you just won't have any. So nerf away, and watch as you find it even harder to find one to group with you.

[Venjenz]

It doesn't really make a difference how long it take or how much xp he gets from fights like that. It is the fact he can do it at all! No other class can! The ability to fight mobs at a difficulty level that no other class can sure sounds unbalanced to me.
You apparently don't know anything about arcane casters then, because anything a cleric can solo, I guarantee a druid, sorcerer or necromancer can as well, and if I knew more about psionicists, I'd probably heap them in there too. And I'd wager that they do it faster than a cleric. Why would I make sucha wager? Because in Vanguard, you can cast while moving.

Cleric DPS is pitiful. Yeah, I can outlast a mob, and having high AC is nice, but against a mob that hits hard and has beaucoup hit points, things can get dicey because I don't chop down HP all that fast, and Anathema might be one of the most resisted spells in the game.

Like all things Vanguard, grouping is better, and for clerics that's especially so. I am at my best when I am healing, buffing and making a group more efficient. Just because we can solo and are not slaved to groups like we were in EQ1 does not mean the nerf bat should swing.

[Akaizhar]

Like all things Vanguard, grouping is better, and for clerics that's especially so. I am at my best when I am healing, buffing and making a group more efficient. Just because we can solo and are not slaved to groups like we were in EQ1 does not mean the nerf bat should swing.

Well put!

[Carni]

and if I knew more about psionicists, I'd probably heap them in there too. And I'd wager that they do it faster than a cleric.


My Psi can solo anything my Cleric can. The Psi never runs out of energy, unlike the Cleric, and the Psi has better escape if things go south. The only difference is the Cleric just stands there and the Psi has to run in circles constantly.

[Yirkin]

I'm not soloing any 4 dots. I tried once and spent all my mana chain healing myself.

I'm pretty sure that I am utilizing my cleric to his full potential so I'm not sure where this soloing 4 dots came in.

My original comment was that I had a wonderful time playing my cleric in a group. It was really fun and I wanted the developers to know about it.

[Vidrak]

I'm not soloing any 4 dots. I tried once and spent all my mana chain healing myself.

I'm pretty sure that I am utilizing my cleric to his full potential so I'm not sure where this soloing 4 dots came in.

My original comment was that I had a wonderful time playing my cleric in a group. It was really fun and I wanted the developers to know about it.
I soloed a 4-dot yellow named last night at lvl 16 (not easy, but doable). I can easily solo lvl 21 3-dot reds at 17. I can easily solo 3-4 3-dot whites/blues/light blues solo. I can solo groups of 4-6 2-dot whites if they are not casters melting my face off.

Ditch the medium armor and get some real plate gear :P You will see that you can take hits like no ones business. I can get my defense rating/AC buffed up to that of a lvl 20+ tank at 17 (especially ones with bad gear). It is all about the gear in this game, it can make things loads easier, or loads harder. You just have to keep up on it.

[Vidrak]

One other thing that I was testing last night. I can straight up melee mobs to death on my CLR. At lvl 16 (before I leveled) I was straight up meleeing mobs down, yes, meleeing! No heals, no spells, nothing. Just using the 3 melee attacks I have (and none of these heal). The mobs could get me to 75% HP if they were lucky, usually more like 80-90%. It was a complete joke.

If you are a tank, have worse DPS than a mace and shield CLR, and get beat down harder and faster than me, without ANY HEALS. You, your gear, or something with your character sucks. You need to find some better equipment or learn to play your class better, as there is no way my CLR has even 1/2 the DPS as a WAR, and def not that of a DPS class.

Unless, now CLR's are the top DPS in the game, lol. Seriously, get some new gear and learn to wait to let you endurace regen instead of spamming skills all the time. I don't get how people CAN'T solo 3-dots. Especially when I can do it with no heals what-so-ever and only 3 melee attacks and lose only 25% of my HP. I think some people just like to complain, because they suck :)

[kraznor]

I soloed a 4-dot yellow named last night at lvl 16 (not easy, but doable). I can easily solo lvl 21 3-dot reds at 17. I can easily solo 3-4 3-dot whites/blues/light blues solo. I can solo groups of 4-6 2-dot whites if they are not casters melting my face off.

Ditch the medium armor and get some real plate gear :P You will see that you can take hits like no ones business. I can get my defense rating/AC buffed up to that of a lvl 20+ tank at 17 (especially ones with bad gear). It is all about the gear in this game, it can make things loads easier, or loads harder. You just have to keep up on it.

Thanks for making my point for me. If this isn't overpowered, then I don't know what is. NO class should be able to solo that much, none. Not shammy, not disc, not cleric, none.

Not that one of you has actually read my posts, you just label me nerf-crier, but as I stated times before, the CLERICS in my guild are screaming they need nerf. I didn't even know how overpowered they are until they told me. And they're higher level than you Vidrak, so you can shut it now.


Btw,

Yes, CLR are too powerful. I have been saying this like forever

hypocrite.

[Jquel]

[QUOTE=kraznor;85962]Thanks for making my point for me. If this isn't overpowered, then I don't know what is. NO class should be able to solo that much, none. Not shammy, not disc, not cleric, none.

Not that one of you has actually read my posts, you just label me nerf-crier, but as I stated times before, the CLERICS in my guild are screaming they need nerf. I didn't even know how overpowered they are until they told me. And they're higher level than you Vidrak, so you can shut it now.


[QUOTE]


WAHHHH WAHHH! HEALING CLASSES CAN ACTUALLY PROTECT THEMSELVES AND SOLO EFFECTIVELY! WTF NERF!?

I have yet to hear about any class not being able to solo 3 dot mobs. Some do it better, some do it uglier. There's simply a difference in mob fight time to downtime ratio. Cleric weaknesses? To any class that can snare and has ranged damage, its pretty easy to wear us down. Without melee, we run ourselves OOM fairly quickly chain nuking/healing. Smart sorcerers know this. We're just as vulnerable to snares as any of the other melee classes.

Soloing 4 dots? Not me. And I've got fairly good gear and a decent knowledge of the class so far. Anyway, who would choose to spend 15 minutes on one kill?

J

[Filadaea]

Thanks for making my point for me. If this isn't overpowered, then I don't know what is. NO class should be able to solo that much, none. Not shammy, not disc, not cleric, none.

Not that one of you has actually read my posts, you just label me nerf-crier, but as I stated times before, the CLERICS in my guild are screaming they need nerf. I didn't even know how overpowered they are until they told me. And they're higher level than you Vidrak, so you can shut it now.


Btw,



hypocrite.

omg, i hope sigil wont listen to such crap like this...
my lvl 16 psi can chainkill 3dots... i bet each class can kill 3dots...

[Rollo]

As you can see, clerics killing 4-dots is not the norm. Most clerics can not. Only those who have maxed out their gear can... so a couple have told us anyway. If there is a problem Sigil will change it. Trolling, or asking to nerf another class will not bring on changes. Because Sigil keeps good records on all the numbers of the game. If there is a major problem Sigil will fix it.

I can't chain kill 3-dots (even con+). I can kill them, rest a few seconds then kill another one. But I can't go on a 3-dot rampage. A 4-dot would kill me.

Doesn't matter to me. I made a cleric to be a group healer. My goal is to insure my group healing abilities are not crippled by someone crying about solo'ing.

[Eadric]

Part of the problem is mobs were severely toned down in difficulty just before release. I had plenty of challenge with a 3 dot, or even a pull of a few 2 dots, during most of beta. Now it's a joke.

There are many classes that are overpowered atm. This is more because the mobs are underpowered, imo. Clerics are almost unkillable in many solo fights because we have the highest AC of any healer and really great energy regen with replenishing strike. All they really need to do to balance us out is reduce the energy benefit for replenishing strike, and move the mob difficulty back to where it needs to be. If this unbalances some melee classes... too bad, or give them the dps/defense they need to be balanced.

But really, all healers and casters are destroying mobs atm... this is a game balance issue, not a single class being overpowered.

[Akaizhar]

Thanks for making my point for me. If this isn't overpowered, then I don't know what is. NO class should be able to solo that much, none. Not shammy, not disc, not cleric, none.

Kranz, the only reason that we can do that is our ability to heal. It is not efficient as it takes FOREVER to kill a 3 or 4 dot. There is no reason for a nerf bat to be swung on any of the healers because they can heal (psssst: thats why they are called healers). Thats insanity, like saying, nerf sorcs cause they can nuke! Nerf healers = groups will not be able to take on higher lvl mobs, raids will be a joke, and so on and so on down the hill we go. The only time I will go after a 3 dot is if it is for a quest or if I get aggro'd. It is much more efficient to kill same or one level higher 2 dots, which all classes can do.

[Multiplex]

Kranz, the only reason that we can do that is our ability to heal. It is not efficient as it takes FOREVER to kill a 3 or 4 dot. There is no reason for a nerf bat to be swung on any of the healers because they can heal (psssst: thats why they are called healers). Thats insanity, like saying, nerf sorcs cause they can nuke! Nerf healers = groups will not be able to take on higher lvl mobs, raids will be a joke, and so on and so on down the hill we go. The only time I will go after a 3 dot is if it is for a quest or if I get aggro'd. It is much more efficient to kill same or one level higher 2 dots, which all classes can do.

Heh, they definitely won't take your healing... if they nerf you it'll be adding mitigation penalties or reducing your melee damage.

[wargod1968]

[double post]

[wargod1968]

Thanks for making my point for me. If this isn't overpowered, then I don't know what is. NO class should be able to solo that much, none. Not shammy, not disc, not cleric, none.

Not that one of you has actually read my posts, you just label me nerf-crier, but as I stated times before, the CLERICS in my guild are screaming they need nerf. I didn't even know how overpowered they are until they told me. And they're higher level than you Vidrak, so you can shut it now.


Btw,



hypocrite.

You have increased your Trolling (1)

[Kaltor]

Clerics are almost unkillable in many solo fights because we have the highest AC of any healer and really great energy regen with replenishing strike. All they really need to do to balance us out is reduce the energy benefit for replenishing strike...

Im sorry but i dont really see how lowering replenishing strike will really change much, now my cleric is only lvl 16 ATM, but sometimes i dont even use replenishing strike unless i REALLY need some quick energy. I regenerate just under 10 energy/second ... so after casting alleviate I which is like 140ish energy it will heal me for 18 seconds, so in that 18 seconds all the energy i used to cast that will be replaced and then some. So I do not think lowering this will change much.

[Kaltor]

Heh, they definitely won't take your healing... if they nerf you it'll be adding mitigation penalties or reducing your melee damage.

Well considering clerics are lowest DPS of the healers I certainly hope they dont lower it more.

[AsheMan]

Well considering clerics are lowest DPS of the healers I certainly hope they dont lower it more.

Notice how the nerf screamers have avoided my question which I posed twice within this very thread. (And now a 3rd time)

Are clerics not the lowest DPS class in the entire game? If not then who is lower?

[Multiplex]

Notice how the nerf screamers have avoided my question which I posed twice within this very thread. (And now a 3rd time)

Are clerics not the lowest DPS class in the entire game? If not then who is lower?

I agree that it would make more sense to nerf your mitigation down a bit... give you a penalty that puts you under fighter based plate wearers. /shrug

I don't care either way... I play on a PVE server so the more high level clerics the better... but you've GOT to see this coming.

[niack]

Arent Clerics still impossible to beat in PVP?? I'd have to agree with a couple others taht the reason why people like them in VG is because they are overpowered....If SOE has any say they will screw with the class....When all is said and done though people always will need healers.

[Lantador]

Arent Clerics still impossible to beat in PVP?? I'd have to agree with a couple others taht the reason why people like them in VG is because they are overpowered....If SOE has any say they will screw with the class....When all is said and done though people always will need healers.

As far as I see Clerics are by no way "insanely" uber. Yes, we can wear plate, yes, we heal well, yes, we can do *some* damage, and yes we are hard to kill in PvP - BUT we can never, ever kill anyone in PvP that *wants* to get away from us. We have no speed, and only single root that breaks easily as our only stopping power. Anyone playing well and dying to a Cleric does so because they choose to stand and fight - As I said, mostly anyone can flee from a Cleric in PvP.

From my perspective, a Shaman for example, is vastly superior to a Cleric in PvP.

[Multiplex]

As far as I see Clerics are by no way "insanely" uber.

You're probably right on that. The problem is though the devs see or read about players soloing higher level 4 dot mobs and you've got kids posting screen shots of them tanking 6 or 7 two dot mobs at a time while they AE DoT them down.

Lube up.

[Leto Eu`Acumen]

Some folks here seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Developers get all their game data from player submitted screenshots, forum trolls and second and third-hand stories.

I promise that is not what they base their decisions off of.

[AsheMan]

You're probably right on that. The problem is though the devs see or read about players soloing higher level 4 dot mobs and you've got kids posting screen shots of them tanking 6 or 7 two dot mobs at a time while they AE DoT them down.

Lube up.

Are we talking about the same class? I'm only a level 26 cleric, but I'm pretty sure the only AE cleric spell is our Shield of Blades. It lasts what, 20-30 seconds and then has at least a minute cooldown. Then if you read the cleric's bug list you'd see them all complaining that it's resisted too often. This is most certainly NOT a way to AE mobs for experience. In fact just typing that made me laugh out loud.

[Lantador]

I'm pretty sure too that Clerics can't effectively AoE grind anything.. I tried with the Damage Shield, but like AsheMan explained, it ain't effective at all.

[Multiplex]

Yeah, it must have been the DMG shield then. I know that I was in a group with a cleric and he was pulling 5+ mobs of equal level (and some were 1 level lower) which were 2 dots. The dmg shield got them all the half by the time I go to hacking them down.

He was doing it solo before I hooked up with him. /shrug

[Lantador]

Yeah, it must have been the DMG shield then. I know that I was in a group with a cleric and he was pulling 5+ mobs of equal level (and some were 1 level lower) which were 2 dots. The dmg shield got them all the half by the time I go to hacking them down.

He was doing it solo before I hooked up with him. /shrug

With 2-dot mobs of equal or lower level its possible to pull 3, 4 or even 5 mobs I guess yes, but only if you find pure melee mobs, but usually the mobs will all be at 50% health by the time your shield wears off, and then you have to smack them all down with your mace (which takes forever), while outhealing the damage they all deal. And sometimes youll run into a bad streak of interruptions and die. As a result, you'll (at best) be at low mana/health after the pull. I checked my XP (I have a counter with both percentages and exact numbers), and for me its more time-efficient to chain pull 2-3 dot mobs 2-3 levels above my own, one (sometimes two if I feel like some excitement) at a time... Still, Clerics takes more time to kill mobs solo from my perspective.

And regarding the pulling 3-4-5 two-dot mobs of equal or lower level, many classes can do that successfully.. Sorcs for example, I see soloing and AoE killing loads of mobs solo.

[Piety]

Heh, they definitely won't take your healing... if they nerf you it'll be adding mitigation penalties or reducing your melee damage.

Shhhhh maybe if we're quiet they won't notice us and we can scrape by.