What WoW Players can learn from VG...

[Swaindaddy]

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everything doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagine and don't just look for the next quest vendor.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can't be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

peace

[Inara]

And what is it that WOW players learn from the VG forums....

There is more talk about WOW than on the WOW forums. :)

[Swaindaddy]

And what is it that WOW players learn from the VG forums....

There is more talk about WOW than on the WOW forums. :)

LOL I doubt that. WoW forums are nothing but Blizz bashing. By the millions who pay for the game every month. It's great!

[Inara]

True very true but we do seem to bring up WOW alot. Unless you take WOW as meaning World of Wings which is a decent lil wing shop here. Now I am hungry

[Swaindaddy]

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everthing doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagin and don't just look for the next quest vendor.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

peace

No Hijacking

[Sentek]

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everthing doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagin and don't just look for the next quest vendor.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

peace

This would all be great if Vanguard was a functioning game, its not.

Exploring is fun just as long as you avoid cities to stay above 10 fps. Its also not to fun when "chunking" involves freezing up for 15+ seconds + losing your mount. Or you just simply run into a chunk thats down.

The other 2 spheres have many bugs. Although Diplomacy is shaping up to be very cool.

The simple fact of the matter is that all this taking longer to experience stuff is great if there was more substance here.

Vanguard offers very little new features to the MMO world. Combat is same as every other MMO before it. Questing is same old stuff rehashed. Crafting involves staring at a tiny window, clicking the same crap over and over, all while running into invincible complications.

Lets face it. Vanguard is mediocre in many ways and I think people are just jaded over companies spitting out the same junk. In Vanguard it just takes longer to get through.

[Isobel]

This would all be great if Vanguard was a functioning game, its not.

Exploring is fun just as long as you avoid cities to stay above 10 fps. Its also no to fun when "chunking" involves freezing up for 15+ seconds + losing your mount. Or you just simply run into a chunk thats down.

The other 2 spheres have many bugs. Although Diplomacy is shaping up to be very cool.

The simple fact of the matter is that all this taking longer to experience stuff is great if there was much substance here.

Vanguard offers very little new features to the MMO world. Combat is same as every other MMO before it. Questing is same old stuff rehashed. Crafting involves staring at a tiny window, clicking the same crap over and over, all while running into invincible complications.

Lets face it. Vanguard is mediocre in many ways and I think people are just jaded over companies spitting out the same junk. In Vanguard it just takes longer to get through.



The game has been live for less than a week. Yes many of the bugs which are still in the game are annoying. However, every launch i've ever been a part of has had bug after bug after bug. It's something one has to expect and accept in MMOs.

Very little new features? What would you consider enough new features? Diplomacy, a new way of crafting, the Bloodmage, the Disciple, and the new take on Druids isn't enough i take it?

[Sentek]

The game has been live for less than a week. Yes many of the bugs which are still in the game are annoying. However, every launch i've ever been a part of has had bug after bug after bug. It's something one has to expect and accept in MMOs.

Very little new features? What would you consider enough new features? Diplomacy, a new way of crafting, the Bloodmage, the Disciple, and the new take on Druids isn't enough i take it?

Certainly not enough for a 3rd generation MMO and from some of the people who got the whole craze in motion.

Don't get me started on crafting, please.

[Isobel]

Certainly not enough for a 3rd generation MMO and from some of the people who got the whole craze started.

Don't get me started on crafting, please.

I enjoy it. Honestly though, how many new features would be enough?

[Halbe]

What constitues a "new" idea?

What ideas in WoW were considered "new" to make it so successful?

Instanced PvP? Many hate it.

Reputation grind? A grind is a grind.

Combat? Very simplistic, which is a staple of these games.

As as been rehashed many times, when the term "3rd Gen" is used, it is used as more of a time stamp, not the ideas per-say.

Short of going to a FPS (which is the course AoC is taking I believe) you will not see many new "ideas" in this genre of games.

Instead, you'll see a restructuring of them, which is what Vanguard tries to accomplish, and what I think it does very well.

[Kiste]

Now my translation from Bullshit into English:

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everthing doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagin and don't just look for the next quest vendor.
Translation:
To make things more interesting, we've built a whole world consisting of repetitive, acne-scar-covered landscape filled with repetitive, grid-distributed mobs ad nauseam so you will be REALLY happy if you discover one of the few and far between hand-crafted pieces of content in our lvl 20+ zones.

And to challenge your ingenuity, we would really like you to goof around and do fun stuff without providing you with all the useless fun fluff things like social clothing or balls to toss around or even bottles of booze you can place in the game world (like in EQ). Who needs that crap? Set Yourself Free! You can do everything you want beside grinding, as long as it doesn't involve actually doing something.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!
Translation:
We think that players need some pavlovian conditioning, just like dogs!

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.
Translation:
We think you're so retarded that you can't figure out your classes in less than 6 months. In fact, you're so stupid that you have to repeat the same shit at least ten thousand times before you can be considered proficient.

Also, please try our other two treadmills, even if you don't enjoy our revolutionary carpal tunnel crafting or hailing hundreds of NPCs to find the ones with appropriate skill level for civil diplomacy.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.
We're still clinging to outdated design tenets that nazi people into a certain play style "for the greater good". Please refer to Mao's Little Red Book, page 67. There is only one true path to happiness, no need to make soloing and small grouping fun and rewarding experiences. You either become part of the collective or you are damned to grind mobs, just like the capitalist pigs grinded stones in the Gulag.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

Translation:
We didn't yet figure out how to make the game fun.

[Sentek]

I enjoy it. Honestly though, how many new features would be enough?

I just remember from seeing early information about the game about how unique the combat was going to be. This I have to say is where I am most disappointed.

Quests are also disappointing. I wanted these to be some much more involved and intriguing endeavors, instead I am left with the same stuff I have been playing for 5+ years.

The crafting is in many ways identical to EQ2 and I just can't stand the clicking over and over and staring at the tiny window, hoping the unstoppable "Mangled Tool"
doesn't show up.

I guess I just wanted something new and was left with much of the same old tired trappings of the genre. It angers me in some ways because I was so ready to just throw myself into this game.

Oh, Diplomacy is definitely great and when they fully fix it, its something future MMOs will surely mimic.

[Sentek]

What constitues a "new" idea?

What ideas in WoW were considered "new" to make it so successful?

Instanced PvP? Many hate it.

Reputation grind? A grind is a grind.

Combat? Very simplistic, which is a staple of these games.

As as been rehashed many times, when the term "3rd Gen" is used, it is used as more of a time stamp, not the ideas per-say.

Short of going to a FPS (which is the course AoC is taking I believe) you will not see many new "ideas" in this genre of games.

Instead, you'll see a restructuring of them, which is what Vanguard tries to accomplish, and what I think it does very well.

I never mentioned WoW.

There is also PLENTY of room for innovation in this genre. More so then in any other. It is still relatively new.

You think there is nothing to be added? We should just except that same reused, but slightly altered structure we have now?

[Halbe]

I know you didn't, and I didn't mean to insinuate you did.

WoW is just used as a benchmark it seems, so I used it as the example :D

But no, revolutionary ideas are going to be few and far between in this market.

Nearly each and every system you will see in MMO's will be rebuilt designs from another MMO.

Could you think of, well, anything really, that would be considered "innovative"? I mean, a totally original idea?

Will there be? Sure. But, as I said, these original ideas will be sparse.

[Sentek]

I know you didn't, and I didn't mean to insinuate you did.

WoW is just used as a benchmark it seems, so I used it as the example :D

But no, revolutionary ideas are going to be few and far between in this market.

Nearly each and every system you will see in MMO's will be rebuilt designs from another MMO.

Could you think of, well, anything really, that would be considered "innovative"? I mean, a totally original idea?

Will there be? Sure. But, as I said, these original ideas will be sparse.

I just got my hopes up. Hype got me good on this one.

I still think if a developer took a risk and tried to redevelop the way we think of these games, this genre is just asking for it.

I fully believed that this game could do it, it just hasn't.

Yes, I actually have many ideas of which I would be glad to share if your really interested. Its just 2 AM over here, plus I don't want anyone to steal'em!

Seriously though, if they hadn't run out of funds and released so early, I'd probably be much more...inclined to forgive. As of now I spent 50$ on a game that doesn't run too well on an above spec machine and I keep running into walls whichever sphere I try. Adventuring was keeping me in until the XP nerf. That just hurt.

[Halbe]

Double post, sorry.

[Halbe]

I just got my hopes up. Hype got me good on this one.

I still think if a developer took a risk and tried to redevelop the way we think of these games, this genre is just asking for it.

I fully believed that this game could do it, it just hasn't.

Yes, I actually have many ideas of which I would be glad to share if your really interested. Its just 2 AM over here, plus I don't want anyone to steal'em!

I understand :0)

It's 2am here (5 hours till work, yeah!).

In anycase, I could be wrong. There could be many, many things a designer could do to innovate the genre.

It's just, again my opinion, even if were such ideas were available, the Juggernaut known as WoW wouldn't allow them to come to fruition.

Companys see what works. Rather, they see what makes money.

Personally, I'm fine with the current genre as is. But, like you, if something came out and I had my preconcived notions on how it would be, if it failed to fullfill those, I would be upset also.

[Isobel]

Now my translation from into English:


Translation:
To make things more interesting, we've built a whole world consisting of repetitive, acne-scar-covered landscape filled with repetitive, grid-distributed mobs ad nauseam so you will be REALLY happy if you discover one of the few and far between hand-crafted pieces of content in our lvl 20+ zones.

And to challenge your ingenuity, we would really like you to goof around and do fun stuff without providing you with all the useless fun fluff things like social clothing or balls to toss around or even bottles of booze you can place in the game world (like in EQ). Who needs that crap? Set Yourself Free! You can do everything you want beside grinding, as long as it doesn't involve actually doing something.

Further Translation: Less than a week after launch we, the Devs have managed to put together a game that takes time, skill and care in order to learn to play well. We will continue to add more content as time goes on but for a game that was forced out far earlier than intended we did an amazing job.




Translation:
We think that players need some pavlovian conditioning, just like dogs!
Further Translation: This game has a sharp learning curve and a relativly steep death penalty by design. Everyone has the capacity to learn from their mistakes.


Translation:
We think you're so retarded that you can't figure out your classes in less than 6 months. In fact, you're so stupid that you have to repeat the same shit at least ten thousand times before you can be considered proficient.

Also, please try our other two treadmills, even if you don't enjoy our revolutionary carpal tunnel crafting or hailing hundreds of NPCs to find the ones with appropriate skill level for civil diplomacy.

Further Translation: We offer you three spheres of progression. Each of them has an equally steep learning curve. Please plan accordingly.


We're still clinging to outdated design tenets that nazi people into a certain play style "for the greater good". Please refer to Mao's Little Red Book, page 67. There is only one true path to happiness, no need to make soloing and small grouping fun and rewarding experiences. You either become part of the collective or you are damned to grind mobs, just like the capitalist pigs grinded stones in the Gulag.

Further Translation: There is more than enough content for solo players, groups and raids if players are willing to explore in order to fid it.

Translation:
We didn't yet figure out how to make the game fun.

Further Translation: While we understand that some players will be put off by these designs the core player who is looking for more will be delighted by a gmae which finally challanges them.


While i understand that you're frustrated by certain aspects of the game are sophistry, cursing and Nazi references really necessary?

[Kiste]

Cool, Isobel. I always wondered what the result would be if you translated something from bullshit into english and then back into bullshit. I used to do that with real languages in Babelfish for teh lulz.

[Isobel]

Cool, Isobel. I always wondered what the result would be if you translated something from bullshit into english and then back into bullshit. I used to do that with real languages in Babelfish for teh lulz.

Lol i think you've got that backward. You translated it from English logical debate into bitter, complaint, gripe, grumble, moan, sob, wail, whimper, whinge and i translated it back. I'm skilled in that fashion.

[Beltain]

I see all the whiny little biatches are out of school.;)
Serioulsy,Forums are almost taking the fun out of gaming.In theory they should be a place to chat about the game,voice concerns ect.Yea well thats a dream.Im with you Isobel.Give the game time.The devs are working there asses off for you little ingrate bastards that never seem to be satisfied.
Shit I think half these guys would write a two page letter on the froums if there mom screwed up there dinner.
"Dinner was not ready for release!,the dev team is just lazy and doesnt care.Its just the same old crap,She only grinded for two hours to make it and I DEMAND atleast four hours of grinding for my supper to be up to par.As well the devs didnt bother to pour me drinks,rub my feet,kiss my ass,and carry my up to my room after supper.I have eaten dinner for many years and this includes:Pizza/spagetti/meatloaf/hamburgers/ and this is the worst supper launch in History!.I will be cancelling my subscription and finally moving out of my moms basement.:D

[Isobel]

"Dinner was not ready for release!,the dev team is just lazy and doesnt care.Its just the same old crap,She only grinded for two hours to make it and I DEMAND atleast four hours of grinding for my supper to be up to par.As well the devs didnt bother to pour me drinks,rub my feet,kiss my ass,and carry my up to my room after supper.I have eaten dinner for many years and this includes:Pizza/spagetti/meatloaf/hamburgers/ and this is the worst supper launch in History!.


HA HA HA HA HA! Honestly, there are bugs. They need to be dealt with. I'm confident they will be dealt with. I just don't think all of the fixes will happen today or tomorrow or this month. It'll take a while and once those things are fixed new things will break. It's the nature of MMOs. Having said that, the idea that mobs can't be killed by anyone or that they have an "I Win" button is ridiculous. When i die, i tend to look to myself before i look to the game.

[Halbe]

Cool, Isobel. I always wondered what the result would be if you translated something from bullshit into english and then back into bullshit. I used to do that with real languages in Babelfish for teh lulz.

HA HA HA HA HA! Honestly, there are bugs. They need to be dealt with. I'm confident they will be dealt with. I just don't think all of the fixes will happen today or tomorrow or this month. It'll take a while and once those things are fixed new things will break. It's the nature of MMOs. Having said that, the idea that mobs can't be killed by anyone or that they have an "I Win" button is ridiculous. When i die, i tend to look to myself before i look to the game.

It's funny, because I ran into one of these suggested "I win" mobs in beta...

Near Khal, some of the Gnoll Raiders had a debuff that reduced healing by 70%. As a disc before the buff, you couldn't fight a battle without healing once.

For about 5 fights, if I got this on me, I lost. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Did I pout? No.

I re-evaluated how I was going about attacking the mob.

I made sure that, no matter what, if I didn't have the debuff on, I made sure I was full, near full health, to give me plenty of time when/if they cast it.

WHen it hit me, I went all out DPS.

Wouldn't ya know, I won! And (I don't believe) ever lost to them again.

Amazing how far alittle planning goes.

[Isobel]

It's funny, because I ran into one of these suggested "I win" mobs in beta...

Near Khal, some of the Gnoll Raiders had a debuff that reduced healing by 70%. As a disc before the buff, you couldn't fight a battle without healing once.

For about 5 fights, if I got this on me, I lost. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Did I pout? No.

I re-evaluated how I was going about attacking the mob.

I made sure that, no matter what, if I didn't have the debuff on, I made sure I was full, near full health, to give me plenty of time when/if they cast it.

WHen it hit me, I went all out DPS.

Wouldn't ya know, I won! And (I don't believe) ever lost to them again.

Amazing how far alittle planning goes.



You mean...you tried harder and *gasp* learned?! Shocking:eek:

[Piety]

As well the devs didnt bother to pour me drinks,rub my feet,kiss my ass,and carry my up to my room after supper.I have eaten dinner for many years and this includes:Pizza/spagetti/meatloaf/hamburgers/ and this is the worst supper launch in History!.I will be cancelling my subscription and finally moving out of my moms basement.:D

You forgot to mention how Dinner is doomed. Doomed! DOOMED!
Dinner is on it's last legs already! The Wilsons on the other hand, THEY really know how to cook a dinner. In fact Mrs. Wilson not only pours me a drink, rubs my feet, and kisses my but, but she also cuts my food up for me. And when I have really hard time chewing, she puts it in the blender for me so I don't have to make any extra effort.

[Bregalad]

Certainly not enough for a 3rd generation MMO and from some of the people who got the whole craze in motion.
Sigh. Does anyone ever read dev's own definition of 3rd gen? Which, by the way, was stated in the FAQ before even first beta?

Really, think about it - if you thought Vanguard would by a '3rd gen MMO' *conceptually*, did you ever really think about where lay the distinction between 1st and 2nd gen for there to be a 3rd?

The 'generation' here means 'development wave'.
1st gen games: UO/EQ1 had nothing but MUDs to learn from.
2nd gen games: EQ2, WoW, SWG etc had 1st gen games to study.
Vanguard is 3rd gen cause its developers got to learn from both 1st and 2nd gen MMOs. It is evolutionary, not revolutionary. A revolutionary change might well require a revolutionary shift in technology - like a shift to quantum processing for massively parallel world computations, or advent and acceptance of neural interfaces.

Without something like that, you better put your hopes for 'revolutionary' away - MMOs will evolve, adding a feature here, dropping a feature there, using more advanced tools to generate larger, more interesting worlds, and making only very small shifts to the core of the game. Any other would be a recipe for disaster as there is an immense inertia present within the playerbase.

[Rulan]

- defensive reactions
- rescues
- weaknesses
- deeper ability selections and options
- finishers

YA IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME AS EQ1!

(ps, every game takes previous ideas and adds their own spin/improvement to it, if you're expecting revolution you're expecting too much)

[Trystan365]

You forgot to mention how Dinner is doomed. Doomed! DOOMED!
Dinner is on it's last legs already! The Wilsons on the other hand, THEY really know how to cook a dinner. In fact Mrs. Wilson not only pours me a drink, rubs my feet, and kisses my but, but she also cuts my food up for me. And when I have really hard time chewing, she puts it in the blender for me so I don't have to make any extra effort.

I like your analogy...here's one I just came up with.

Some games, like Vanguard, require you to be a raptor. You spread your wings and fly. Always hunting, exploring for the next meal. Sometimes you find a mouse, sometimes, you take down a housecat. On a rare occasion, you get salmon. But unless you get several of you friends together, you'll never take down that huge wildebeast. You may not get it on the first try, but by analyzing your tactics you finally take it down. You feel that be learning and self development, you can begin to carve your own niche out of the world by nothing but your own wits and courage.

Other games, which shall remain nameless, require you to stay in your nest, while momma (devs) swoop in once in a while and puke in your mouth. This feeds you...yum! The loudest and most annoying birdy in the nest gets fed first and most. You see the wildebeast and thinbk, that maybe I'll come out of the nest and get him, he'll feed me for a week and momma won't have to chew and pre-digest my food for me! The wildbeast stomps that birdy flat. After you effortlessly and without any penalty respawn in the nest, you complain that the wildbeast has an "I win" button. You feel the world owes you something. Momma should let you take down the wildebeast with nothing but dirty looks.

[Estefan]

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everything doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagine and don't just look for the next quest vendor.

I think you can do that in any MMO - even WoW.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can't be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!
Hmmh as far I know, if you die you can not be looted, and xp losses can be minimized.
Think I have to find out about the hurting aspect of death.

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.
Different people, different play styles.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.Playstyles again. Why should everyone the way you like? Quite the contrary to your initial statement: If i remember correctly, you said "Everything doesn't have to be driven or directed". Now you say people should not powerlevel - and be forced in groups to be effective. Looks like quite a directive for a playstyle.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

peaceHowever.

(Oh I like the volcano forum)

[perfect]

...(Oh I like the volcano forum)

Welcome, Estefan.

Where does your sig come from? The 'radiation' one.

[Estefan]

Welcome, Estefan.

Where does your sig come from? The 'radiation' one.

It's from the science fiction series "Farscape", 3rd season: The hero, John Crichton, gets doubled. Some episodes before the end of the season, one of the Crichtons dies by an overdose of radiation, after he disarmed a crazy weapon.
Among his last words is "radiation... too much radiation..."

Can't forget that scene...

[Carguard]

Lesson 1: You can play an MMO just to explore, discover, and have fun. Everything doesn't have to be driven or directed. Try doing whatever you can imagine and don't just look for the next quest vendor.

Lesson 2: Death hurts. You can't just run in thinking "oh well, if I die I'll just re spawn and try again." you will have to strategize about how you tackle a quest or mob you can't be careless. Plan, execute, reap the reward of being skilled!

Lesson 3: You don't have to cap level in the fastest time possible to enjoy this game. It will be a while. Try all three spheres. Grow as a character and learn to play your role well. Level as you play, don't play to level.

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.

Lesson 5: This is not WoW. Will never be Wow. Shouldn't be WoW. WoW is a great game but this is different. You can play one or the other (I play both). But don't ask that one BE the other. Try something different!

peace

WARNING: THIS POST IS NOT PROFANE OR INAPPROPRIATE ENOUGH FOR...

THE VOLCANO!!!! :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :volcano: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :pirate: :pirate: :pirate: :pirate:

YOU... HAVE... BEEN... WARNED...

[Sigin Tarag]

Lesson 4: Your solo days are over. You can't just play by yourself until level cap. (If you do it will be very very long and very very painful. This game is made to encourage you to group and make friends. It is a massively multi player after all.



I'll have to disagree with this one. Polkadots is, as of yesterday, level 47. Going through his "Achieved level X" blogs on VG Players, he was solo in all the ones I checked. Granted he's a Necro, so he has it somewhat easier, but thus far, I haven't had any problems soloing my Paladin. You might have to look a bit harder for it, but thus far, I've had more fun soloing around, and challenging myself than I did while grouping in Dungeons. And it beats sitting around 3 Rivers, then Renton Keep, then wherever. I've been to alot of out of the way places I likely never would have seen if I'd just followed the herd. I also haven't had any shortage of quests I've been able to solo, even a few that were labeled as group quests.

Now this may well change post 20, or 30 or whatever for my lil dorf, but so far I've found soloing to be perfectly viable. Not to the extent that WoW is, but no where near as painfully slow as good ole EQ was. And I haven't really felt like I was grinding yet, which I did in WoW at numerous points, for whatever it's worth. Maybe it's just the new MMO smell hasn't worn off yet, or maybe I'm actually enjoying myself enough that I don't notice it.

[Contact]

Polkadots, also, for all intents and purposes of gaining exp, solos by exploiting... but that's neither hear nor there, I just bring it up because it doesn't bring anything to this argument.

[Isobel]

Polkadots, also, for all intents and purposes of gaining exp, solos by exploiting... but that's neither hear nor there, I just bring it up because it doesn't bring anything to this argument.

Oh look a baseless accusation. Wow those grapes are sour.

[Sigin Tarag]

Polkadots, also, for all intents and purposes of gaining exp, solos by exploiting... but that's neither hear nor there, I just bring it up because it doesn't bring anything to this argument.

How, exactly, is he exploiting? I know there were some people that took advantage of a quest bug at Lord Tsang's place in Kojan, but they were nailed pretty fast by the people watching the leaderboards, and either lost their levels, or where banned outright.

What about all the other characters in their 40's that are just a few levels behind him? Did they all exploit their way to glory?

[Contact]

Oh look a baseless accusation. Wow those grapes are sour.

PM me if you want to know why I call what he has done exploiting. The GMs know about it and whether they choose to take action on it is up to them. I only brought it up because somebody else mentioned him in the same breath as saying it was possible to legitimately level up.

[Sigin Tarag]

I wasn't looking for the exact mechanics, just a brief synopsis.

But even if he is exploiting, there are quite a few people only a few levels behind him(not counting the gms, test, and press characters from Targanor). There's a huge chunk of people in the upper 30's, and given that the leader board is usually lagging a bit behind their actual level, many of them may be in their 40's by now.

They can't all be cheating.

[Isobel]

I wasn't looking for the exact mechanics, just a brief synopsis.

But even if he is exploiting, there are quite a few people only a few levels behind him(not counting the gms, test, and press characters from Targanor). There's a huge chunk of people in the upper 30's, and given that the leader board is usually lagging a bit behind their actual level, many of them may be in their 40's by now.

They can't all be cheating.

Keep in mind the whole site is wrong on a lot of things.My stats are wrong. Unless someone can get to level 12 with only 14 individual kills and 38 kills total to the trio i play with exclusivly.

[Trystan365]

Keep in mind the whole site is wrong on a lot of things.My stats are wrong. Unless someone can get to level 12 with only 14 individual kills and 38 kills total to the trio i play with exclusivly.

Cheater cheater cheater! Neener neener neener

[Contact]

I apologize to Polka Dots. I had heard people in my guild mention that they had seen him exploiting, but it appears that they had no more evidence than anybody else does other than "look at his level compared to everybody elses," etc.

As I remove my foot from my mouth, I will just say that it still seems unlikely that he's doing it entirely on his own at least, but I have no evidence of wrong doing.

People get jealous (like the aforementioned hardcore guildmates) and stay stupid things. Other people (me) actually listen to those people as if they know what they are talking about.

Again, I apologize.

[Isobel]

Good on you for admitting your mistake.

[perfect]

Good on you for admitting your mistake.

Never!

[Trillis]

I'll say it Polkadots is exploiting.

47 and his Blog is locked so that no one is able to prove it. There is no doubt in my mind that he exploited one of the many broken quests. Personally if he did...I hope he is caught and either banned or reduced to the level where it started and has to level all over again!

[Isobel]

I'll say it Polkadots is exploiting.

47 and his Blog is locked so that no one is able to prove it. There is no doubt in my mind that he exploited one of the many broken quests. Personally if he did...I hope he is caught and either banned or reduced to the level where it started and has to level all over again!

Fortunetly, whatever little is going on in your mind is meaningless. The other three threads about this same character prompted Dev response. Look. (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showpost.php?p=109921&postcount=39)