Intelligence vs Spell damage focus

[Puuma]

Has anyone seen or found a comparison of intelligence vs spell damage focus (SDF) for total damage output? Now, I know that we are all dropping max attribute points to int each level, but I am thinking about gear. Would you take a wand with +8int and some energy over a +30 SDF figurine? Right now I chose SDF. What do you think?

[Melios]

I have been wondering about this....

[sinsa]

I've wondered about this myself....

**searches for gear**

[Quelian]

spell damage focus is a consistent % boost based on level. Int is a % boost based on the spell's target int value. The only real way to compare the two at the moment is to parse it, which will take time and isn't valuable until later in the game anyway, since by the time you finish parsing you've probably gained a level.

[sinsa]

spell damage focus is a consistent % boost based on level. Int is a % boost based on the spell's target int value. The only real way to compare the two at the moment is to parse it, which will take time and isn't valuable until later in the game anyway, since by the time you finish parsing you've probably gained a level.

good cause I'm having a bitch of a time finding varying gear. LOL

[Puuma]

spell damage focus is a consistent % boost based on level.

Since this was the only part of that post I understood, I am going to assume that SDF is better. :D

[Shihan]

Since this was the only part of that post I understood, I am going to assume that SDF is better. :D

Good question. Offhand I'm not sure but INT is much more important than strictly +damage. I don't have the game in front of me but I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do w/ resists and other stuff.

I currently have about 80 - 90 spell damage focus and in my group ( w/ a Psionicist ) w/o a cleric ( no Brilliance ) I typically have about 275 INT or so. I get very few resists and hit pretty hard at 22.

[Puuma]

I mostly hunt with a necro, so between us we can add 68int in buffs (Expansive mind +37 and Power of the grave +31) resist are not an issue. We prefer the fear and blast method, but on lazy days we let the abomination tank while we dot and I control agro with mindwipe.

But I am glad we are having this discussion. I am sporting a 135 SDF but my favorite artificer just learned mental SDF last night so soon I will have 2 +98 mental SDF dolls, or maybe one mental for Mind blast and one physical for thought pulse and telekenetic blast.
UPDATE: Just to make you all tad jealous...My Artificer just made me a pair of +100 Mental spell damage focus items. He just sent me a screen shot I can't wait to get home tonight and test those bad boys out! My advice make a friend out of an artificer.
Wow 2 post an hour apart, can you tell it's a slow day at work?

[Puuma]

AahHA!

Here's the best answer I have found on this subject. Each spell has a range. The median of that range is commensurate with the int needed to cast. The (caster's int/spell int) x random x spell dmg + (SDF/10)%.

So, let me pull some numbers from the nether region to explain. You have a spell that does 200dmg with a 100int req. Caster has 120int and 100SDF.
(120/100)x1x200+10% = 264
(Assuming rand =1 for median dmg)

Problem is: How do you know what the Int req is for a spell? You don't. Nor do you know the range of the randomizer. And what about the target's base resistance?

I would not bet my life on this information but it's the best breakdown I have seen, and it made sense to me.

[Tharzidun]

The (caster's int/spell int) x random x spell dmg + (SDF/10)%.

Assuming this is true, then the multiplier (caster int/spell int) has a greater effect than an added amount (SDF) as long as the multiplier expressed as a percentage is greater than the addition of SDF+100% (because its a percentage of damage) expressed as a percentage.

[Puuma]

Yeah but there are lots of assumptions there. I am still for the SDF because I can SEE the modifier on my character screen. I have no idea if my int modifier is >20% plus as the denominator grows, it's much harder to maintain a 20% differential on the numerator. (oh got not Algebra) plus your max SDF grows as you level. I am starting to think that when it comes to gear, I will be leaning towards wis and SDF for the same reasons that melee classes are leaning heavily on dex..for the crits. Somebody stop me if I am AFU.

[Melios]

Assuming this is true, then the multiplier (caster int/spell int) has a greater effect than an added amount (SDF) as long as the multiplier expressed as a percentage is greater than the addition of SDF+100% (because its a percentage of damage) expressed as a percentage.

Errr....uhhh....well.....there's still the tooltip on INT to check......

[Hanabi Omoide]

Assuming this is true, then the multiplier (caster int/spell int) has a greater effect than an added amount (SDF) as long as the multiplier expressed as a percentage is greater than the addition of SDF+100% (because its a percentage of damage) expressed as a percentage.

AahHA!

Here's the best answer I have found on this subject. Each spell has a range. The median of that range is commensurate with the int needed to cast. The (caster's int/spell int) x random x spell dmg + (SDF/10)%.

So, let me pull some numbers from the nether region to explain. You have a spell that does 200dmg with a 100int req. Caster has 120int and 100SDF.
(120/100)x1x200+10% = 264
(Assuming rand =1 for median dmg)

Problem is: How do you know what the Int req is for a spell? You don't. Nor do you know the range of the randomizer. And what about the target's base resistance?

I would not bet my life on this information but it's the best breakdown I have seen, and it made sense to me.

Yeah, it's not correct. The calculation for SDF is completely borked.

INT, in general, is probably the more important of the two, because it is hit
twice in the damage calculation. By this, I mean that it's considered both
in increasing the damage of a spell and in the likelihood that the spell will be
completely or partially resisted.

I've only really parsed it in the low twenties though, against trivial mobs
(L6 and under) and against similarly levelled 2-dot mobs. At the time, I was
mostly curious what impact int had on resists and partial resists more than
anything. As a Psi I was particularly interested in CC/Suggestion/Enthrall
resists. Since testing though, the resist rates against CC and charm have
been tinkered with significantly...

[cloudymind]

1. About spell damage focus

if you mouse over the spell damage focus, you will see a number that indicates the increase of spell damage.

What works for me is

increase = 20% * current_total_damage_focus/ level_damage_focus_cap

level_damage_focus_cap = level * 10
say, you are level 28, your total damage focus is 140

then the increase = 20% * 140 / (28*10) = +10%

2. About int effect
It doesn't seem to be linear. What I do is just equiping/unequiping some +int items. And calculate the percentage change from the tool tip.

[Puuma]

This post was started before the tool tip for int was in game. Now this point is moot.

[Dignam]

If I have to decide b/n the 2 in an item I only take SDF if it is about tripple the INT amount.

[Methusalem]

Here's the best answer I have found on this subject. Each spell has a range. The median of that range is commensurate with the int needed to cast. The (caster's int/spell int) x random x spell dmg + (SDF/10)%.
Are you sure about the SDF part? As far as I could see you max out at 10 SDF per level. (i.e. 160 at level 16, 200 at level 20)
You can get +20% spell damage at max SDF, lower percentage when you drop below the cap.

What I'm trying to do with my (crafted) gear - keep the SDF max for the level and then add Int if I want additional damage.

.

[Creasian]

Are you sure about the SDF part? As far as I could see you max out at 10 SDF per level. (i.e. 160 at level 16, 200 at level 20)
You can get +20% spell damage at max SDF, lower percentage when you drop below the cap.

What I'm trying to do with my (crafted) gear - keep the SDF max for the level and then add Int if I want additional damage.

.

As a necro i keep one focus maxed and the other around half and focus on int. It just hasnt been worth the degrade in damage with less int for me when I am hitting 2.5x the bonus to dmg with int than i do with max 20% focus bonus and i am not even geared for my current lvl.

[Kazin]

I play a level 41 sorcerer. And here is what I have found so far:

It is pretty simple whether to go after Int or SDF, but you need a good balance in both.

Intelligence raises base spell damage. It will affect the original amount of damage your spell will cast for.

This number goes up past 100% spell damage, and can range well over the 130% mark.

SDF Can only raise up to 20% spell damage bonus, and does not affect base spell damage. However, keeping it as close to 20% as possible is very good, but only if you have at least 110% base spell damage from your int.

Heres some examples on a 1000 damage spell:

100% base + 20% bonus = 1000 + 200 = 1200
120% base + 0% bonus = 1200 + 0 = 1200
110% base + 10% bonus = 1100 + 110 = 1210

The changes seem minimal, as long as you have around 10% in each. If you have under 10% in base or bonus damage you will take a hit on damage that you deal.

[Brownshoe]

I'm bumping this because it was the most recent (two months) discussion of this issue that I could find. I was just starting to figure out whether:

1. At any level, is there a maximum INT beyond which you get no extra benefit? If so, how might that be calculate? In most of these examples, it seems like there's some diminishing return, but it isn't at all clear to me...

2. At whatever that level "cap" INT level is, if there is one, what is the effect of SDF?

These answers seemed pretty fluid to me, so I'm asking again (I've spent most of the past couple of months focused on diplomacy, just starting to get back to adventuring with my psionicist, and I'm trying to decide what start gear to go with).

Thanks in advance.

[Tashim]

I'm bumping this because it was the most recent (two months) discussion of this issue that I could find. I was just starting to figure out whether:

1. At any level, is there a maximum INT beyond which you get no extra benefit? If so, how might that be calculate? In most of these examples, it seems like there's some diminishing return, but it isn't at all clear to me...

2. At whatever that level "cap" INT level is, if there is one, what is the effect of SDF?

These answers seemed pretty fluid to me, so I'm asking again (I've spent most of the past couple of months focused on diplomacy, just starting to get back to adventuring with my psionicist, and I'm trying to decide what start gear to go with).

Thanks in advance.

I've done quite abit of work with this, and I'll summarize my findings. I've gone into more depth over at vgpsi.com.

Before level 10, you are treated as level 10 for the purposes of caps. From level 10 to 50, int and sdf caps increase.
As previously stated, int caps at 18*level, and sdf caps at 10*level.
Max sdf bonus is 20%, max intel bonus is 60%.

The "base" effect for intelligence, is 5.5 * level. That gives 100% effect, with no penalty, and no bonus.

The effect on your spell, is based on the level of the spell, not your level. The tooltips show the effect for your level. It is somewhat misleading.

if I cast a level 25 spell, it will "cap" for effect with 450 int and 250 sdf, even at level 50. It is a softcap, however, and does raise extremely slightly past that. The bonus past the "cap" is so slight that I have never seen more than a +1 to minimum, and +1 to maximum damage above the softcap (for intel).

With all said and done, for actual effect on your spells, 10 int = 24 sdf, at any level.

edit: to directly answer your questions...
at level 50, for level 50 spells, 900 int is the max, along with 500 sdf. 900 int will give your spells 160% base effect, and 500 sdf will provide you with an extra 20% damage, for a total of 180% (they are additive).

[Brownshoe]

I've done quite abit of work with this, and I'll summarize my findings. I've gone into more depth over at vgpsi.com.

Before level 10, you are treated as level 10 for the purposes of caps. From level 10 to 50, int and sdf caps increase.
As previously stated, int caps at 18*level, and sdf caps at 10*level.
Max sdf bonus is 20%, max intel bonus is 60%.

The "base" effect for intelligence, is 5.5 * level. That gives 100% effect, with no penalty, and no bonus.

The effect on your spell, is based on the level of the spell, not your level. The tooltips show the effect for your level. It is somewhat misleading.

if I cast a level 25 spell, it will "cap" for effect with 450 int and 250 sdf, even at level 50. It is a softcap, however, and does raise extremely slightly past that. The bonus past the "cap" is so slight that I have never seen more than a +1 to minimum, and +1 to maximum damage above the softcap (for intel).

With all said and done, for actual effect on your spells, 10 int = 24 sdf, at any level.

edit: to directly answer your questions...
at level 50, for level 50 spells, 900 int is the max, along with 500 sdf. 900 int will give your spells 160% base effect, and 500 sdf will provide you with an extra 20% damage, for a total of 180% (they are additive).

I'm still a little unclear on the relationship between my level, the level of the spell, and what happens when I increase my INT...

So, to ensure I'm following, I'll do this with some stats:

At level 14, 5.5x my level is 77. This is considered "base," at which I'll get 100% of the spell's damage. 60% more than this is 123. So, I'd think I could increase the effect of a level 14 spell, while I'm at level 14, up until my intelligence hits 123. Beyond this, it won't help (not including the SDF effect), though I'm not sure having re-read that where the 18x multiple comes into play. As I level up to 15, what happens to the level 14 spell and the INT cap that comes into play?

[Tashim]

I'm still a little unclear on the relationship between my level, the level of the spell, and what happens when I increase my INT...

So, to ensure I'm following, I'll do this with some stats:

At level 14, 5.5x my level is 77. This is considered "base," at which I'll get 100% of the spell's damage. 60% more than this is 123. So, I'd think I could increase the effect of a level 14 spell, while I'm at level 14, up until my intelligence hits 123. Beyond this, it won't help (not including the SDF effect), though I'm not sure having re-read that where the 18x multiple comes into play. As I level up to 15, what happens to the level 14 spell and the INT cap that comes into play?

It takes 252 int to get 160% effect from a level 14 spell.
The maximum sdf for a level 14 spell, is 140.

Once you have 252 int, and 140 sdf, that level 14 spell will get max effect (180%)
Your level doesn't matter. Thats is the maximum bonus that level 14 spells can make use of. You could be level 50, but as long as you have 252 int and 140 sdf (or more) then that spell will be as good as it will get.

It is designed this way so that as you level, and your max caps increase, your older spells will not lose any power. The higher the level of the spell, the more the base effect will be, but the more int and sdf it will take to get the same degree of bonus.

[Johnr]

Int vs SDF ?! That's stupid.... You shouldn't have to choose between them, At level50 SDF is out of 500 and that's SOOOO easy to hit it's rediculous. 3-4items and it's maxed out. The int cap on the other hand is currently 900 which isn't so easy. You shouldn't choose between them, choose both. Though because SDF is so easy to get, if you HAVE to... got for Int.

The question itself in this thread is pointless.

[Illusive]

It takes 252 int to get 160% effect from a level 14 spell.
The maximum sdf for a level 14 spell, is 140.

Once you have 252 int, and 140 sdf, that level 14 spell will get max effect (180%)
Your level doesn't matter. Thats is the maximum bonus that level 14 spells can make use of. You could be level 50, but as long as you have 252 int and 140 sdf (or more) then that spell will be as good as it will get.

It is designed this way so that as you level, and your max caps increase, your older spells will not lose any power. The higher the level of the spell, the more the base effect will be, but the more int and sdf it will take to get the same degree of bonus.

you have it almost correct.

except, its mob level in relation to player level, that determines how much the spell's will hit for.

IE i can use a lvl 50 spell on a lvl 10 mob and receive the max bonus on that spell from int / sdf with only 180 int / 100 sdf.

[Tashim]

you have it almost correct.

except, its mob level in relation to player level, that determines how much the spell's will hit for.

IE i can use a lvl 50 spell on a lvl 10 mob and receive the max bonus on that spell from int / sdf with only 180 int / 100 sdf.

I have not found that to be the case.
I find that int will affect the base value of the spell, regardless of the level of the mob.
SDF seems to function the same way, capping at level 50, but I get the same max hit against a level 10 mob as I do against a level 40 mob, if I remove my +spell damage rating gear. Higher level mobs do get better resistance, both full and partials, as that is a skill check (avoidance) vs accuracy check, which are affected by level difference.

spell damage rating is what scales with effect according to the level of your target.
It takes roughly twice as much damage rating to reach 1% bonus every 10 levels of the target.

Against a level 50 mob, every 40 points of spell damage equals 1% bonus damage.
Against a level 40 mob, every 20 points of spell damage equals 1% bonus damge.
Against a level 30 mob, every 10 points...
etc.

Oh, and against a level 53 mob, it takes 49 points of spell damage to get 1%.

Crit Rating, and Accuracy function similiar, but with different base values.

37 Crit Rating = 1% vs level 50.
66 Accuracy = 1% vs level 50.

My tests involved ignoring all crits and partial resists, just going with base (normal) spell hits with no +damage rating gear equipped.
If you have different findings, then please post your data and I'll attempt to duplicate it.

[Illusive]

I have not found that to be the case.
I find that int will affect the base value of the spell, regardless of the level of the mob.
SDF seems to function the same way, capping at level 50, but I get the same max hit against a level 10 mob as I do against a level 40 mob, if I remove my +spell damage rating gear. Higher level mobs do get better resistance, both full and partials, as that is a skill check (avoidance) vs accuracy check, which are affected by level difference.

spell damage rating is what scales with effect according to the level of your target.
It takes roughly twice as much damage rating to reach 1% bonus every 10 levels of the target.

Against a level 50 mob, every 40 points of spell damage equals 1% bonus damage.
Against a level 40 mob, every 20 points of spell damage equals 1% bonus damge.
Against a level 30 mob, every 10 points...
etc.

Oh, and against a level 53 mob, it takes 49 points of spell damage to get 1%.

Crit Rating, and Accuracy function similiar, but with different base values.

37 Crit Rating = 1% vs level 50.
66 Accuracy = 1% vs level 50.

My tests involved ignoring all crits and partial resists, just going with base (normal) spell hits with no +damage rating gear equipped.
If you have different findings, then please post your data and I'll attempt to duplicate it.

sure I'll get gearless and fire off a bunch of lvl 50 nukes on lvl 10 mobs today.

then do the same thing against lvl 50 mobs and record the differences.

if you're right then the nuke damage amount should stay the same since the mob level doesn't matter.

[Illusive]

update

completely naked against a lvl 50 5-dot mob in the harbor using seradons falling star 3 (lvl 50 nuke)

base #'s int 333(105.6%) wis 415

(i kept the sorc ring on so I could run away as killing one of these mobs naked is impossible- so i have 37 int/wis higher than base)

lvl 50 mob #'s
1667, 1656, 1626, 1654, 1665, 1693

lvl 10 mob #'s
2975(crit) , 1954, 2004, 3031 (crit), 1933, 1943, 1998.


therefore, the damage a spell does is based off the level of the mob in relation to the player, not the level of the spell.

[Tashim]

update

completely naked against a lvl 50 5-dot mob in the harbor using seradons falling star 3 (lvl 50 nuke)

base #'s int 333(105.6%) wis 415

(i kept the sorc ring on so I could run away as killing one of these mobs naked is impossible- so i have 37 int/wis higher than base)

lvl 50 mob #'s
1667, 1656, 1626, 1654, 1665, 1693

lvl 10 mob #'s
2975(crit) , 1954, 2004, 3031 (crit), 1933, 1943, 1998.


therefore, the damage a spell does is based off the level of the mob in relation to the player, not the level of the spell.

So it seems, I'll have to update my notes accordingly.
If you don't mind, I'd like a little more information for completeness.
I do not doubt that the spell hits the low level mobs harder, but there is one thing that does not add up. The difference between those two number ranges is lower than I'd expect if you were getting max effect out of that level 50 spell.

With the Int that you had, (370), what was the damage range in the tooltip of seradons falling star?

If the tooltip shows the spell damage to average ~ 1096 at 105.6% effect, then that would indicate that the spell is getting maximum effect (160%) on level 10 mobs, but that doesn't account for why the spell was averaging 1660 vs level 50 opponents. That would be 52% more damage than I'd expect.

Alternatively, if the tooltip shows the spell damage to average ~ 1660 with 105.6% effect, then it should have a maximum potential damage (160%) ~ 2528, which was not supported by your data vs level 10 mobs, where the average hit was 1966.4, which would indicate that the level 10 mobs mitigated 22% of the spell damage.

If the tooltip shows an average around 1966, that would indicate that level 10 mobs were getting hit with 105.6% effect, and the level 50 mobs were mitigating ~ 15% of your spell damage.

I'll test it as well with some of my spells.

[Illusive]

So it seems, I'll have to update my notes accordingly.
If you don't mind, I'd like a little more information for completeness.
I do not doubt that the spell hits the low level mobs harder, but there is one thing that does not add up. The difference between those two number ranges is lower than I'd expect if you were getting max effect out of that level 50 spell.

With the Int that you had, (370), what was the damage range in the tooltip of seradons falling star?

If the tooltip shows the spell damage to average ~ 1096 at 105.6% effect, then that would indicate that the spell is getting maximum effect (160%) on level 10 mobs, but that doesn't account for why the spell was averaging 1660 vs level 50 opponents. That would be 52% more damage than I'd expect.

Alternatively, if the tooltip shows the spell damage to average ~ 1660 with 105.6% effect, then it should have a maximum potential damage (160%) ~ 2528, which was not supported by your data vs level 10 mobs, where the average hit was 1966.4, which would indicate that the level 10 mobs mitigated 22% of the spell damage.

If the tooltip shows an average around 1966, that would indicate that level 10 mobs were getting hit with 105.6% effect, and the level 50 mobs were mitigating ~ 15% of your spell damage.

I'll test it as well with some of my spells.


Oh oddly enough the spell was hitting very close to the min displayed in the tooltip which was 1665-1754

[Sasami]

update

completely naked against a lvl 50 5-dot mob in the harbor using seradons falling star 3 (lvl 50 nuke)

base #'s int 333(105.6%) wis 415

(i kept the sorc ring on so I could run away as killing one of these mobs naked is impossible- so i have 37 int/wis higher than base)

lvl 50 mob #'s
1667, 1656, 1626, 1654, 1665, 1693

lvl 10 mob #'s
2975(crit) , 1954, 2004, 3031 (crit), 1933, 1943, 1998.


therefore, the damage a spell does is based off the level of the mob in relation to the player, not the level of the spell.


I think you confused me.

Your test data shows that your lvl 50 spell hits a lvl 10 mob harder than a lvl 50 mob. Why does the data prove anything regarding a mob/spell lvl or mob/caster lvl relation?

The word relation confuses me most.

The lvl 10 receives about 18% more damage than the lvl 50. From which number does the 18% increase come from?

[Illusive]

I think you confused me.

Your test data shows that your lvl 50 spell hits a lvl 10 mob harder than a lvl 50 mob. Why does the data prove anything regarding a mob/spell lvl or mob/caster lvl relation?

The word relation confuses me most.

The lvl 10 receives about 18% more damage than the lvl 50. From which number does the 18% increase come from?

the previous poster claimed INT affects the spell based on the spells level.

I claimed its the mobs level that affects the damage, not the spell level. My data supports that fact.

[Sasami]

So you are saying the additional damage for the lvl 10 mob is from int?

[Tashim]

the previous poster claimed INT affects the spell based on the spells level.

I claimed its the mobs level that affects the damage, not the spell level. My data supports that fact.

Your data does not disprove mine statement, nor does it prove that the extra damage caused to the level 10 mob is due to the int bonus on a spell. That would assume that int is the only factor, which is looking very unlikely, since the damage is not consistent with given information on int bonus per tooltip information. It is possible that the tooltips are inaccurate, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

My statement, that int affects base spell damage based on the level of the spell, has not been refuted at all. I come to that conclusion by observing the listed damage range for spells on the tooltip, where it reaches max, and min, by spending refund points to reduce and raise it, noting each spell's adjustment. They all max out at 160% effect, when your int is at 18 times the level of the spell, at any level. A spell will list its normal (100%) damage when you have exactly 5.5 times the spell's level in Intelligence. It will scale linearly between the two. Below that, it takes pretty harsh penalties, but I have the formula for that too.

It is certainly possible, and likely given your data, that there is another damage bonus source, that may very well be directly dependent on level difference, but that doesn't change the base damage of the spell per each point of int.

I was wondering, however, if that 333 int was with the ring on, or off. I assumed off, but I don't like to make assumptions. at 333 int, your tooltip will list 105.6%, but at 370, your tooltip will list 109.1%

[Illusive]

Your data does not disprove mine statement, nor does it prove that the extra damage caused to the level 10 mob is due to the int bonus on a spell. That would assume that int is the only factor, which is looking very unlikely, since the damage is not consistent with given information on int bonus per tooltip information. It is possible that the tooltips are inaccurate, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

My statement, that int affects base spell damage based on the level of the spell, has not been refuted at all. I come to that conclusion by observing the listed damage range for spells on the tooltip, where it reaches max, and min, by spending refund points to reduce and raise it, noting each spell's adjustment. They all max out at 160% effect, when your int is at 18 times the level of the spell, at any level. A spell will list its normal (100%) damage when you have exactly 5.5 times the spell's level in Intelligence. It will scale linearly between the two. Below that, it takes pretty harsh penalties, but I have the formula for that too.

It is certainly possible, and likely given your data, that there is another damage bonus source, that may very well be directly dependent on level difference, but that doesn't change the base damage of the spell per each point of int.

I was wondering, however, if that 333 int was with the ring on, or off. I assumed off, but I don't like to make assumptions. at 333 int, your tooltip will list 105.6%, but at 370, your tooltip will list 109.1%

it was with it on hence stating I had it on.

believe what you want, but damage goes up with same level spell against lower level mobs, hence proving my point that its the mobs lvl checked against your level.

[Tashim]

it was with it on hence stating I had it on.

believe what you want, but damage goes up with same level spell against lower level mobs, hence proving my point that its the mobs lvl checked against your level.

I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just pointing out that it isn't mutually exclusive with the int bonus, which is based on the level of the spell.

[griffonage]

Has anyone seen or found a comparison of intelligence vs spell damage focus (SDF) for total damage output? Now, I know that we are all dropping max attribute points to int each level, but I am thinking about gear. Would you take a wand with +8int and some energy over a +30 SDF figurine? Right now I chose SDF. What do you think?



I keep them both "Maxed" there is a hard cap of 20% on SDF and a soft cap of 140% INT (additional INT returns lower and lower increases over 140%

143.7% Int bonus
20% SDF
13.4% Wis Chance to Crit
Also 5 Items with + to Crit

[Illusive]

It has come to light that there is some kind of bonus scaling at least confirmed for crit %,

we can only assume the difference #'s on my testing is another bonus % scale for spell damage.

more info here:
http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1177506&posted=1#post1177506

[Gandos]

Guy's I'd like everyone to go into there intelligence stat and read what it says.

It should say something like "Does 126% damage to an equal level opponent." This obviously means that if your lower level then your opponent, you'll do less, and more if your higher level.

In order to actually calculate your actual damage to the mob, you need to be basing it on your inteligence and level NOT spell damage focus. SDF does nothing but give an extra 20% bonus onto your base damage.

If you were to graph this, it should look something like x^2 function on the left axis leveling off at your max damage, with a x^-2 function on the right leveling off at 0 damage. The scale of the function would be purely based on your inteligence. INT on the y axis, Levels on the x axis.

You also have to take into account mob resistance.

[Nazaryx Arcones]

All skills,item mods, in game have a scaling % compared to your level vs the targets level. Damage scales with the mobs level too, mostly because the mob has more mit as you go higher in level.

While Im unsure of the actual numbers in the scale, an example would be mitigation for tanks. 65% Mitigation as lvl 50 Tank is 65% mitigation against a lvl 50. It could be 69% vs a 48, It could be 55% vs a lvl 52 or 53. Against a lv 60, you would have little to no mitigation. A level 60 could sneez and kill any lvl 50.

The same goes for spell accuracy, spell crit, spell damage. Go roll a noob and try attacking a mob 4 levels higher than you and watch the mob laugh as you tickle it. At the same time, go attack some low level mobs on you high level main, and keep track of how many times you crit.

While there may be a cap for stats for your level, you should always attempt to surpass the cap, getting as much as possible, because you're most likely fighting mobs that are above your level, which scales those stats down.

My personal goal for the last few weeks has been to collect as much high level spell accuracy gear as I can. I could care less about sacrificing some damage, I want to be able to hit a level 55-60 mob in my sleep. To me, spell damage and spell crit are worthless if you cant hit the mob with a good frequency. Yay, you just wasted you big finisher and missed!

There are a few exceptions. Spell Focus is only compared vs your level, regardless of your targets level. The overall damage to the mob is scaled though.

Sorry to be a little mean, but Im surprised somebody just figured this out. I understood that is was...well..understood.

[Gandos]

[COLOR=yellow]

[QUOTE]My personal goal for the last few weeks has been to collect as much high level spell accuracy gear as I can. I could care less about sacrificing some damage, I want to be able to hit a level 55-60 mob in my sleep. To me, spell damage and spell crit are worthless if you cant hit the mob with a good frequency. Yay, you just wasted you big finisher and missed!

I was planning on getting spell acc. till i realized, my tanks can't tank me now....no way they can if I'm pounding on a mob no one can hit. ill just take the Spell Dmg and focus and live with the fact that my misses will help them tank. Not that it matters anyway, tanks aren't getting much acc. items so I don't think we'll have to worry about mobs over lvl 55.

P.S. Do you know Menesis, druid dev.? been trying to bring up some druid things but can't seem to find him.

[Illusive]

In order to actually calculate your actual damage to the mob, you need to be basing it on your inteligence and level

the point I was making is that you gain bonus damage as you fight lower level mobs, and it is most likely capped at a certain % much like the one that cylus posted scales by 1% per level up to 10% cap on crit %.

What your suggesting is that you simply need to look at your int and level vs mob and then figure in spell damage focus.

While almost correct, we do not know the scaling bonus % on a per level basis vs lower level creatures.

we can guestimate it caps at 20%, and if it follows the same scale as crit% then you would gain 2% per level until you cap at 20%.

[Nazaryx Arcones]

I was planning on getting spell acc. till i realized, my tanks can't tank me now....no way they can if I'm pounding on a mob no one can hit. ill just take the Spell Dmg and focus and live with the fact that my misses will help them tank. Not that it matters anyway, tanks aren't getting much acc. items so I don't think we'll have to worry about mobs over lvl 55.

P.S. Do you know Menesis, druid dev.? been trying to bring up some druid things but can't seem to find him.

Then I suggest your tanks get some melee accuracy. If a tank doesnt get melee accuracy and still expects to tank a raid mob 3-10 levels above them, then that person has a lack of foresight, and will in the end hold back everyone in the raid. And trust me when I say nobody wants to be the person that ends up holding everyone back.

- Apparently this forum doesnt like quoting quotes very well.

[Sasami]

Sorry to be a little mean, but Im surprised somebody just figured this out. I understood that is was...well..understood.

What do you think is well understood, that the mob level has influence on your hit rate and the damage? Sure, that was clear.
The question was how it scales. If you have numbers would you be so nice sharing them with me?

If your 500 points accuracy let you hit a lvl 55 for 5% more but the additional int you could have instead would do 10% more damage on a lvl 55 mob I think it is obvious what I would choose.

[Sasami]

Then I suggest your tanks get some melee accuracy.


Does melee accuracy influence taunts and rescues?

[Gandos]

P.S. Do you know Menesis, druid dev.? been trying to bring up some druid things but can't seem to find him.

Then I suggest your tanks get some melee accuracy. If a tank doesnt get melee accuracy and still expects to tank a raid mob 3-10 levels above them, then that person has a lack of foresight, and will in the end hold back everyone in the raid. And trust me when I say nobody wants to be the person that ends up holding everyone back.

- Apparently this forum doesnt like quoting quotes very well.

In a level based game, attacking a mob 5 levels higher is going to result in my DoT's hitting for like 50 -100 per tick. BUT one of the things i specificly remember when I was leveling was, if I exploit a weakness and continues to exploit with others, I can maintain full DPS as if I was at even level with the mob. This could be where the uniqueness of VG's battle system comes into play. I do notice if you put together a exploiting group your damage from exploits can add up fast doing a lot of the extra damage to make battles much quicker.

[Nazaryx Arcones]

Does melee accuracy influence taunts and rescues?
Had to ask a warrior friend about this.
Yes and No.
Shouts (or any other taunt that you can use from <25m) are considered spells, but those have a low rate of failure.
Pretty much every taunt that you have to be within 5m and hit the mob would benefit from melee accuracy. Not to mention, most tank attacks have additional hate on top of the hate generated by damage.

But that is all dependent upon actually hitting the mob.

So yes, without accuracy, you would end up killing the mob very slowly because you keep missing. Straight Melee mobs, this would be fine. Against spell casters that can one-shot most of your party, the tank would need to maintain agro at all times to even stand a chance. Against a healer type mob, you're just plain screwed, as they will heal everytime they get low, and their hp will drop too slowly to kill them. Same goes for mobs that run, as you need to out-dps their regen, and, like I said above, if you keep missing, you're dps blows.

In the end, its all just a debate of Luck vs Skill. Yes, you could get lucky and not miss much against a mob, but luck goes both ways. Skill takes the majority of luck out of the equation.

[Gandos]

The question was how it scales. If you have numbers would you be so nice sharing them with me?

I heard somewhere the magic number is 37.
+37 Spell Damage rating, Crit rating, Spell acc., etc.......anything equals 1% at level 50. This is also imo really stupid....who's idea was it to make it 37 instead of just an even 50.

I plan to get the lucent rings and earrings that give +2% crit. on each plus I believe it gives +1-2% spell acc.:eek:
I'm pretty sure I"ll be getting around an extra 5% crit just from these 4 things. These stacked with the gorg. offensive armor is going to give me around a 25% chance to crit on an even level mob. I may be switching between this blue armor I have that gives +144 spell acc. in raids if i can hit.

[Illusive]

I heard somewhere the magic number is 37.
+37 Spell Damage rating, Crit rating, Spell acc., etc.......anything equals 1% at level 50. This is also imo really stupid....who's idea was it to make it 37 instead of just an even 50.

I plan to get the lucent rings and earrings that give +2% crit. on each plus I believe it gives +1-2% spell acc.:eek:
I'm pretty sure I"ll be getting around an extra 5% crit just from these 4 things. These stacked with the gorg. offensive armor is going to give me around a 25% chance to crit on an even level mob. I may be switching between this blue armor I have that gives +144 spell acc. in raids if i can hit.

you would be mis-informed.

+37 = 1% crit vs lvl 50 mob
+40 = 1% damage rating vs lvl 50 mob
+66= 1% accuracy vs lvl 50 mob.
+37 = 1% mitigation vs lvl 50 mob
+37 = 1% avoidence vs lvl 50 mob.

[Sasami]

you would be mis-informed.

+37 = 1% crit vs lvl 50 mob
+40 = 1% damage rating vs lvl 50 mob
+66= 1% accuracy vs lvl 50 mob.
+37 = 1% mitigation vs lvl 50 mob
+37 = 1% avoidence vs lvl 50 mob.

But it still does not answers the question how 1% accuracy changes the rate I got resisted from a lvl 53 mob.

Gandos, the table with the translation is published on Graffë and probably linked in this forum somewhere.

[Sasami]

Had to ask a warrior friend about this.
Yes and No.
Shouts (or any other taunt that you can use from <25m) are considered spells, but those have a low rate of failure.
Pretty much every taunt that you have to be within 5m and hit the mob would benefit from melee accuracy. Not to mention, most tank attacks have additional hate on top of the hate generated by damage.

But that is all dependent upon actually hitting the mob.

So yes, without accuracy, you would end up killing the mob very slowly because you keep missing. Straight Melee mobs, this would be fine. Against spell casters that can one-shot most of your party, the tank would need to maintain agro at all times to even stand a chance. Against a healer type mob, you're just plain screwed, as they will heal everytime they get low, and their hp will drop too slowly to kill them. Same goes for mobs that run, as you need to out-dps their regen, and, like I said above, if you keep missing, you're dps blows.

In the end, its all just a debate of Luck vs Skill. Yes, you could get lucky and not miss much against a mob, but luck goes both ways. Skill takes the majority of luck out of the equation.

So that basically means to get the full aggro Warriors would need both spell and melee accuracy on their equipment?

I don’t have experience with killing mobs 5 lvl higher then the tank but I have experiences killing lvl 50 mob tanked by a lvl 50 DK when I was lvl 45. I did significant less damage but I was still able to hit the mob often enough to deliver damage.

I really don’t know the mechanic behind the game. It has lots of numbers but how the numbers play together is not documented. I wonder, if there is internally accurate documentation available when I read some of the posts on the forum.

They may be differences between the classes how important accuracy is. If I cast a long running dot I think it may be more important that the dot is delivering full damage and less important that I have to cast 3 times to get it stick. If I use straight forward direct damage hitting 1 out of 3 means doing 1/3 of my damage. CC resist at the wrong time leads to dead caster which is 0 damage.

Which skill are you mentioning?

By the way, do class leads talk with each other to exchange their visions about the class and get some consistency how classes perform compared to each other?

[Nazaryx Arcones]

So that basically means to get the full aggro Warriors would need both spell and melee accuracy on their equipment?

I don’t have experience with killing mobs 5 lvl higher then the tank but I have experiences killing lvl 50 mob tanked by a lvl 50 DK when I was lvl 45. I did significant less damage but I was still able to hit the mob often enough to deliver damage.

I really don’t know the mechanic behind the game. It has lots of numbers but how the numbers play together is not documented. I wonder, if there is internally accurate documentation available when I read some of the posts on the forum.

They may be differences between the classes how important accuracy is. If I cast a long running dot I think it may be more important that the dot is delivering full damage and less important that I have to cast 3 times to get it stick. If I use straight forward direct damage hitting 1 out of 3 means doing 1/3 of my damage. CC resist at the wrong time leads to dead caster which is 0 damage.

Which skill are you mentioning?

By the way, do class leads talk with each other to exchange their visions about the class and get some consistency how classes perform compared to each other?

When I say warrior shouts have a low chance of failure, I mean extremely low, like 'Omg, I missed' low, but not impossible. Besides, tanks cant rely just on taunts to keep agro, nor can they rely on just damage. Its a combination of both. Plus, there is a reason why so many tanks want Djarn's Longsword of Accuracy for when they are sword-and-board.

Raid mobs are going to be about efficiency and resource management. You want your spells to hit because you don't want to waste energy. When you run out of energy, then you're just dead weight until you get energy again. A sorc that nukes itself dry, then has to wait to get mana will end up with a lower dps than it should have. Sure, you cranked out a lot of damage for the first 30 seconds, but the fight will last 10 minutes. All the while, you trying to regen enough to nuke again, then regen again.

When I mean skill, I mean you don't want to depend on luck. Depending on luck is like depending on the fact that you'll get a legendary crit when you want it. Ya, it can happen, but would you bet money on it? The more you add accuracy, the more you remove luck from the equation.

As for the classleads communicating, Im guilded with rogue, bloodmage, and warrior. Ranger and Palandin are on my server. I talk with Disciple on a nearly daily basis. I honestly don't know where some of the other classleads are. I used to, but I've been out of touch with a few, and some have resigned and been replaced.