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Istarius
02-07-2007, 06:14 AM
Am I the only one who think it's realy unfair that our diplomacy horse just have 30% speed increase vs the other level 10 mounts 50%.
It is so mutch easier to acquire 12s and buy a horse then actuly doing the whole diplomacy quetsline + I had to spend 6 hours talking to a guard in order to get my diplomacy skill up to 75 just to win the parley. And it's not like they just give you a horse, in order to complete the quest you have to run across half Thestra under 40min and deliver some goods. Which is easier said then done since those high elfs dont realy like vulmanes :confused:
I DEMAND JUSTICE! Or atleast a good explanation on this subject.

Please feel free to post your thoughts and opinions about this.

Melios
02-07-2007, 06:28 AM
Dark Elf horse quest is nigh impossible in the Banan parley........and this for a "slow courier's horse?" :yell:

Then again, being a Psionicist with Acceleration, I probably don't need a horse right now anyway....

Istarius
02-07-2007, 07:01 AM
Dark Elf horse quest is nigh impossible in the Banan parley........and this for a "slow courier's horse?" :yell:

Then again, being a Psionicist with Acceleration, I probably don't need a horse right now anyway....
Yeah this is my point: It's mutch harder to do this quest then collect some silver, anyone can do that. But it take some time and skill if you want to get good at diplomacy. So why should this horse be the slowest ingame :(

Swayde
02-07-2007, 07:49 AM
I have to agree. I was rather disappointed when I logged in yesterday to discover that my pride and joy was now thoroughly useless. It was bad enough that I was barely faster on it then with my Shaman buffs, at least the horseshoes and tack could help boost me up a bit. Then when I discovered the free horse rentals from a finishing taskmaster it became even more depressing. Yesterday was the final straw for me. I retired my old nag and bought myself a 12.5s horse like everyone else just so I could keep up with groups.

givionte
02-07-2007, 09:20 AM
I 2nd, nay 3rd, nah, 4th this...whatever... It's really pathetic that I spent all these hours leveling up my diplomacy, working my butt off on every quest line, putting up with broken diplomacy quests, or the near impossible decks some NPC's threw at me, then finally got my first horse quest, failed it twice, then finally got it right the 2nd time, then leveled up to level 10 so I would be eligible for the final horse quest. *deep breath* Then I completed the final quest, and got my horse, happy as could be. Then the next day they increase regular horse speeds by a whole bunch, and barely give the courier horse a kick in the rear.

I can't believe I went through all that, when I could have simply grinded a few easy mobs for coins, and had a far, far better horse in 1/10th the time it took me to get a free one. I sincerely hope Sigil don't think this is fair.

*EDIT* Like others said, you can't even keep up with your own group anymore if on horseback, it's kinda embarrassing to be left in the dust because your obese, 64 year old horse can't keep up with all the young steeds.

Melios
02-07-2007, 09:28 AM
I 2nd, nay 3rd, nah, 4th this...whatever... It's really pathetic that I spent all these hours leveling up my diplomacy, working my butt off on every quest line, putting up with broken diplomacy quests, or the near impossible decks some NPC's threw at me, then finally got my first horse quest, failed it twice, then finally got it right the 2nd time, then leveled up to level 10 so I would be eligible for the final horse quest. *deep breath* Then I completed the final quest, and got my horse, happy as could be. Then the next day they increase regular horse speeds by a whole bunch, and barely give the courier horse a kick in the rear.

I can't believe I went through all that, when I could have simply grinded a few easy mobs for coins, and had a far, far better horse in 1/10th the time it took me to get a free one. I sincerely hope Sigil don't think this is fair.

*EDIT* Like others said, you can't even keep up with your own group anymore if on horseback, it's kinda embarrassing to be left in the dust because your obese, 64 year old horse can't keep up with all the young steeds.

It seems not only did they increase regular horses to the wrong amount (+50, when it was supposed to be +40), they didn't even increase courier horses. Hopefully they'll fix this very soon. Given how hard they've made the horse quests, they should actually be better than the "young horses."

troldan
02-07-2007, 10:05 AM
wheres the +40 written its suppose to be the speed?

Melios
02-07-2007, 10:11 AM
wheres the +40 written its suppose to be the speed?

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27110-vanguard-febuary-6th-patch-6.html#post662000

Istarius
02-07-2007, 10:48 AM
I do hope they change the quest horse to 40% whit the next patch too then. Is there any official suggestion forum that the Devs read where we could post about this?

astenniall
02-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Am I the only one who think it's realy unfair that our diplomacy horse just have 30% speed increase vs the other level 10 mounts 50%.


I would assume it was an oversight.

Someplace on this forum I believe Aruspex stated that the ultimate goal for the diplomacy horse is to have it grow as the diplomat gains skill since otherwise we'd be forced to continue to level our characters to gain better mounts. Have hope although I somehow missed that horses had been boosted. Never use my diplo horse anyway. :p

milow
02-07-2007, 08:35 PM
I also have to wonder about my poor horse, it nice that we get one free and all, but does it have to be a nag? When it was 5 slower? I didnt much care but now it 20% slower. I hope in the end that a high level diplomate can get just as good of horse/mount as I can from questing with adventuring.

Lalkin
02-08-2007, 08:46 PM
My courier horse is speed 35. It has been said that the tier 1 horse is susposed to be 40 but was accidently boosted to 50.

So the courier will still be 5% slower once they fix their mistake.

Melios
02-08-2007, 09:01 PM
My courier horse is speed 35. It has been said that the tier 1 horse is susposed to be 40 but was accidently boosted to 50.

So the courier will still be 5% slower once they fix their mistake.

It has been set to the intended 40% boost.

milow
02-08-2007, 10:57 PM
Also gimp (is that his name) has post that they are adding a quest for tier 2 and tier 3 horse upgrade. Also, they are looking at adding special tack and horseshoes so the diplo horse is faster then the store bought one.

LaurnaRose
02-09-2007, 05:54 AM
I realize that the diplomacy horses are "freebies" but if you have actually done the diplomacy horse quests (especially before the last patch to scale them down a bit) will will agree that those horses are anything but free. Personally, I do not see where there should be ANY difference between the two. You, as an adventurer work hard for your coin to buy your horse, where diplomates run their butts off and parley with a zillion people to get theirs. Both classes are working hard toward this goal, why should one be penilized? Its as if they are saying, "Diplomacy just isnt as important." And Im sorry, Sigil, but your co-company made that mistake with the non-combat professions of SWG and ruined the whole game. IMO, you need to concentrate on treating all spheres with equal respect. Why would you even make there be a difference in the horse speeds? It is just a stupid move IMO.

Greydog
02-10-2007, 12:44 PM
Also gimp (is that his name) has post that they are adding a quest for tier 2 and tier 3 horse upgrade. Also, they are looking at adding special tack and horseshoes so the diplo horse is faster then the store bought one.

rofl ..I think you mean Glip :D

So I'm wondering if these upgrades would be for the dip horse only?

I think they should make riding a seperate set of skills (like harvesting) and make quests from all three spheres that can boost them ;)

Rowain deWolf
02-12-2007, 10:05 AM
I realize that the diplomacy horses are "freebies" but if you have actually done the diplomacy horse quests (especially before the last patch to scale them down a bit) will will agree that those horses are anything but free. Personally, I do not see where there should be ANY difference between the two. You, as an adventurer work hard for your coin to buy your horse, where diplomates run their butts off and parley with a zillion people to get theirs.

Yes but an Adventurer has to spend his Money on a Horse while a Diplomat can keep his Money and gets a Horse for free.

In all the time I do this game and the 5/6 lvl10 Adventurers i have created only my Caster could afford a Horse at lvl 10 the other are better off spending the money on Armor/Weapons (at lvl 10 later they can afford one easily).

PS. My little Giant - Warrior-diplomat, although he is still not skill 50, has earned twice as much money as Diplomat then as lvl 6 Adventurer.

LeviticusD
02-12-2007, 05:40 PM
I wouldn't be adverse to adding in some coinage to be required to buy the courier horse as long as the speed is increased to match the others. Maybe having it around 8s instead as it is part of a quest, or make it the same, but have some added benefit for diplomacy...I don't know.

Needless to say, it is a waste of time, unless the speed is fixed.

ThreadKiller
02-12-2007, 05:42 PM
the only thing I did notice about the courier horse is that it clearly states that the horse in Untrained, and will get faster an more stabe over time....the others are static and will never get any faster or stable.

Aruspex - SGO
02-13-2007, 01:14 AM
As has been related, your Young Courier Horse is an upgradable mount as you gain skill in Diplomacy. At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade your horse to a rank 2 courier horse (5% slower than rank 2 storebought), and skill 300 you will be able to upgrade to a rank 3 courier horse.

Rank 4 and 5 are also in the works, but we're not ready to talk about those yet. :)

For those of you who ditched your Courier Horse, a replacement will be offered if you meet the conditions for it.

o
A

Melios
02-13-2007, 06:46 AM
As has been related, your Young Courier Horse is an upgradable mount as you gain skill in Diplomacy. At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade your horse to a rank 2 courier horse (5% slower than rank 2 storebought), and skill 300 you will be able to upgrade to a rank 3 courier horse.

Rank 4 and 5 are also in the works, but we're not ready to talk about those yet. :)

For those of you who ditched your Courier Horse, a replacement will be offered if you meet the conditions for it.

o
A

So could we get an upgrade to wyrm mount at rank 5? :)

runelynx
02-13-2007, 01:25 PM
As has been related, your Young Courier Horse is an upgradable mount as you gain skill in Diplomacy. At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade your horse to a rank 2 courier horse (5% slower than rank 2 storebought), and skill 300 you will be able to upgrade to a rank 3 courier horse.

Rank 4 and 5 are also in the works, but we're not ready to talk about those yet. :)

For those of you who ditched your Courier Horse, a replacement will be offered if you meet the conditions for it.

o
A

Not to be rude, but is there anything in this game that isn't "in the works" ??

You guys have a "in the works" list 3 miles long, and yet you're still working on clearing out the initial bugs.

I can play Vanguard right now and have a good time; it's just very irritating to see VG devs posting everywhere "in the works" with regard to every single feature that players ask about.

I guess Sigil didn't get the memo that VG released 2 weeks ago? Odd that release 2 weeks left half the game "in the works".

Phaethor
02-13-2007, 04:04 PM
As has been related, your Young Courier Horse is an upgradable mount as you gain skill in Diplomacy. At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade your horse to a rank 2 courier horse (5% slower than rank 2 storebought), and skill 300 you will be able to upgrade to a rank 3 courier horse.

Rank 4 and 5 are also in the works, but we're not ready to talk about those yet. :)

For those of you who ditched your Courier Horse, a replacement will be offered if you meet the conditions for it.

o
A

This is still a very sad excuse. Either you treat Diplomacy at the same level as other aspects of the game or might as well as remove it.

I've been busting butt to work on this quest got up to level 40 now and people are telling me just spend the 12S and forget the horse. By the time you get to 200 skill in diplomacy and the quest you'll have to end up doing to upgrade your horse to a tier 2 you could have saved enough cash from adventuring to buy a tier 4 or 5 from the stables.

***
Player: “What is the Diplomacy Horse good for anyway? Will I be able to keep up with my group?”
Aruspex: “No, Player. I’m telling you that with the Diplomacy Horse, you won’t be able to.”
***

Melios
02-13-2007, 05:08 PM
Not to be rude, but is there anything in this game that isn't "in the works" ??

You guys have a "in the works" list 3 miles long, and yet you're still working on clearing out the initial bugs.

I can play Vanguard right now and have a good time; it's just very irritating to see VG devs posting everywhere "in the works" with regard to every single feature that players ask about.

I guess Sigil didn't get the memo that VG released 2 weeks ago? Odd that release 2 weeks left half the game "in the works".

You thought they weren't going to add any new content after launch?

Moob
02-13-2007, 06:05 PM
At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade your horse to a rank 2 courier horse (5% slower than rank 2 storebought), and skill 300 you will be able to upgrade to a rank 3 courier horse.
Why does it have to be slower? Is diplomacy too easy to warrant a full speed horse? Well, I guess you do make money at the same time. Is that money comparable to the other two spheres?

Rowain deWolf
02-14-2007, 05:14 AM
Not to be rude, but is there anything in this game that isn't "in the works" ??

You guys have a "in the works" list 3 miles long, and yet you're still working on clearing out the initial bugs.

I can play Vanguard right now and have a good time; it's just very irritating to see VG devs posting everywhere "in the works" with regard to every single feature that players ask about.

I guess Sigil didn't get the memo that VG released 2 weeks ago? Odd that release 2 weeks left half the game "in the works".

They had to release earlier than they wanted because they had run out of money. They would have liked to work a month or 2 longer before release but they had to go live now.

PS. Thats not my assumption that was said by Brad McQuaid (CEO of Sigil) himself.

Rowain deWolf
02-14-2007, 05:20 AM
Why does it have to be slower? Is diplomacy too easy to warrant a full speed horse? Well, I guess you do make money at the same time. Is that money comparable to the other two spheres?

Because it does not cost any money.

This is still a very sad excuse. Either you treat Diplomacy at the same level as other aspects of the game or might as well as remove it.

If they treet Diplomacy at the same lvl you would have to pay 12s50c for your horse an option you still have.

Daelos
02-16-2007, 04:27 AM
Because it does not cost any money.


Since in-game money isn't real, the only actual currency that is involved with attaining any item in Vanguard is time invested.

The Horse quest takes time. A lot of time.

So: When you claim it does't cost any money, you are missing the point that there are significant costs associated with it, no less than with a "normal" T1 horse.

Rowain deWolf
02-16-2007, 06:34 AM
Since in-game money isn't real, the only actual currency that is involved with attaining any item in Vanguard is time invested.

The Horse quest takes time. A lot of time.

So: When you claim it does't cost any money, you are missing the point that there are significant costs associated with it, no less than with a "normal" T1 horse.


Thats a joke right ? right? Cause if not you show a profund lack of knowleddge about the adventuring sphere. Besides as a Diplomat you additional get a 12 slot bag for free and a Saddlebag too. Both items a adventurer does not get.
The time an adventurer needs to earn the additional money required for the horse and the bag is by large amount more then a Diplomat needs.

Daelos
02-16-2007, 07:26 AM
Thats a joke right ?

It was not a joke. As to the rest of your post, I won't bother to reply. I have a rule for myself that I don't bother debating with people who use insults where none are necessary.

Rowain deWolf
02-16-2007, 09:13 AM
It was not a joke. As to the rest of your post, I won't bother to reply. I have a rule for myself that I don't bother debating with people who use insults where none are necessary.

So despite your rule you do answer but do not bother to answer the valid points. :rolleyes:
Ok I accept that you seeked a cheap way out so good luck on your adventures and have fun in the world of Telon despite the fact that your free Horse is slower than a Horse one paid for.

Phaethor
02-16-2007, 01:47 PM
I spent several hours doing diplomacy. I went to the vendor to sell my hard earned goods and got a little over 2 1/2sp.

I then went and picked up a few Adventuring quests (Some of these quests had rewards of 1sp +). In 30 minutes I was back in town cashing in and gained more than another 8s.

The time invested in Diplomacy and Adventuring is not even remotely comparable.

If Person A puts all their time into Adventuring and Person B puts all their time into Diplomacy. Over the same amount of time Person A will have more money, be higher level and have better gear than Person B.

Phae

ThreadKiller
02-16-2007, 01:48 PM
I spent several hours doing diplomacy. I went to the vendor to sell my hard earned goods and got a little over 2 1/2sp.

I then went and picked up a few Adventuring quests (Some of these quests had rewards of 1sp +). In 30 minutes I was back in town cashing in and gained more than another 8s.

The time invested in Diplomacy and Adventuring is not even remotely comparable.

If Person A puts all their time into Adventuring and Person B puts all their time into Diplomacy. Over the same amount of time Person A will have more money, be higher level and have better gear than Person B.

Phae

I agree, I think some balancing is needed in terms of reward.

DarkProdigyX
02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Of course some day I hope there will be some super-awesome service that all the adventuring types will have to pay an arm and a leg for us diplomats to take care of, much in the manner of buying a house/ship from a crafter. Buwahahah.

Would be cool if diplomats were necessary to negotiate buying your plot contract and in turn a good one could lower your price... or if diplomats were a necessity to form player-built cities and the like. Or better yet, if a high-level diplomat with a ton of diplomatic prestige in a city could literally sell a small ammount of faction points to another player, by "convincing" local guards not to KOS that person, haha.

ThreadKiller
02-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Of course some day I hope there will be some super-awesome service that all the adventuring types will have to pay an arm and a leg for us diplomats to take care of, much in the manner of buying a house/ship from a crafter. Buwahahah.

Would be cool if diplomats were necessary to negotiate buying your plot contract and in turn a good one could lower your price... or if diplomats were a necessity to form player-built cities and the like. Or better yet, if a high-level diplomat with a ton of diplomatic prestige in a city could literally sell a small ammount of faction points to another player, by "convincing" local guards not to KOS that person, haha.

or negotiate your way into a great dungeon....oh the possibilities.

Aruspex - SGO
02-16-2007, 07:43 PM
Of course some day I hope there will be some super-awesome service that all the adventuring types will have to pay an arm and a leg for us diplomats to take care of, much in the manner of buying a house/ship from a crafter. Buwahahah.

Would be cool if diplomats were necessary to negotiate buying your plot contract and in turn a good one could lower your price... or if diplomats were a necessity to form player-built cities and the like. Or better yet, if a high-level diplomat with a ton of diplomatic prestige in a city could literally sell a small ammount of faction points to another player, by "convincing" local guards not to KOS that person, haha.

Diplomats will be vital to the day to day functioning of a player city.

o
A

DuckOfDeath
02-16-2007, 08:27 PM
I spent several hours doing diplomacy. I went to the vendor to sell my hard earned goods and got a little over 2 1/2sp.

I then went and picked up a few Adventuring quests (Some of these quests had rewards of 1sp +). In 30 minutes I was back in town cashing in and gained more than another 8s.

The time invested in Diplomacy and Adventuring is not even remotely comparable.

If Person A puts all their time into Adventuring and Person B puts all their time into Diplomacy. Over the same amount of time Person A will have more money, be higher level and have better gear than Person B.

Phae

You cant compare them. Vanguard is developed as a three tier leveling system where each can be played or not played at the players disgression. Just because you can make a ton of gold adventuring doesnt mean you should make the same amount crafting or using diplomacy. And yeah of course player A will have a higher adventuring level but he wont have a higher diplomacy level.

However I do believe they did bork the xp system. You see adventurers slowly gain xp from kills but they get a huge gain from turning in quests. On the other hand diplomacy and crafting only have the slow gain from individual parleys or craftings and do not get any extra benefit from quests. That is basically the only reason that leveling diplomacy and crafting is slower. I think if completing diplomacy quests and crafting quests would give you boosts to leveling those tiers of play it wouldnt be seen as such a grind compared to adventuring.

Anyway getting back to the point of the horse. I dont really think the speed of the horse is a problem. Sure its a bit slower to start off but hey its free. You are always free to go buy the faster one. Plus like others have said you get some other pretty nice rewards along with the free horse. Bottom line: dont look a free gift horse in the mouth.:p

Matuse
02-17-2007, 11:14 AM
So, in the last patch, store-bought horses, in addition to being 5% faster, were also given an innate +20 stability.

It's like they are trying to force people to not do diplomacy.

ThreadKiller
02-17-2007, 12:17 PM
So, in the last patch, store-bought horses, in addition to being 5% faster, were also given an innate +20 stability.

It's like they are trying to force people to not do diplomacy.

with the exception that the store bought horse is static...that's it, doesn't get any better, you have to buy a new faster one when you get tot the next level......whereas the diplo horse gets better as you level your diplo....there is a difference.

Matuse
02-17-2007, 06:28 PM
Straight comparison between the quested horse and the 12 silver horse (and not even including that in the time it takes you to do the diplomacy tutorial, and both quests, you could earn probably 5 times the cost of the 12 silver horse, and buy some 8-slot saddlebags, with about 3 hours to spare, while getting faction, XP, and gear upgrades too).

Do you really think that the 200 skill quest horse is going to compare with the 3 gold bought horse? 5% slower, and 30% less stability probably?

Of course, that assumes the 200 skill horse quest is even in the game yet. Being willing to discuss them and having them in the game are not the same thing.

At skill 200 you will soon be able to upgrade

Soon be able = can not now. 3 gold horses are can-now. Plus of course, you can sell them back to an NPC once you upgrade, and make a good sized chunk of your money back.

Also, if the Tier 4 and 5 mounts require more than 300 diplomacy (obvious, since that's what the tier3 mount needs), where do you obtain this skill? The highest skill NPC I've seen was 300. Parlaying against them will get you up to what, 320 or so?

How do you even GET to the 400/500 the next tiers will need?

thlau
02-18-2007, 07:52 AM
I now read several times, the horse is slower, because it doesn't cost anything. To be honest, I think that opinion is outright silly. For me there is no reason, why a quested horse should be worse than a bought one, and I now let you know, why I think so.

Every quested weapon or armor piece is by far better than the bought counterpart, and these items cost nothing, too. So why should an animal be different?

sleipnira
02-18-2007, 09:58 AM
ok, I sat out 4 pages before responding/teasing...
& I agree that it seems like a horse you quest for should be faster than one that can be bought

but...:)

if it was a Morgan horse you wouldn't have this problem

;) :D

(just trying to lighten things up)

jtoast
02-19-2007, 07:18 PM
ok, I sat out 4 pages before responding/teasing...
& I agree that it seems like a horse you quest for should be faster than one that can be bought

but...:)

if it was a Morgan horse you wouldn't have this problem

;) :D

(just trying to lighten things up)



I assume I would need to know what a Morgan horse is for your comment to make sense. Unfortunately I don't and I am not motivated enough to google it right now.

Veraxa
02-20-2007, 01:02 PM
I have been playing the game about 6 days now, and though the last part of the quest was very tough (because of lag and disconnects as I moved through new chunks), I thought the point of the entire exercise was to learn how to function as a diplomat. The free horse is a very nice bonus, and don't overlook the fact that you also received 2 very nice bags, which is wonderful for any starting character.
I guess what I am trying to say in the nicest possible manner is that if your only goal was to "get a free horse" I think you may have missed the larger picture. Mine may not be as fast as what other folks are riding, but I am very excited about diplomacy...now if only I can find an NPC who will parley with me at Dip level 42...which is actually the information I was scanning these sights for :)

If anyone has a link for where I can find NPC's to parley with (my goal this week is to get my diplomacy to 100 and possibly find some new cards!) please email me at veraxa@gmail.com

Thank you !!

Wudan
02-21-2007, 07:01 AM
You all really need to stop crying abou the diplo horse!

1st read the tooltip. It will tell you that in time, the horse will get faster and sturdy.

2nd noone is forcing you to use that horse. Its ment to be a "diplomacy horse" for people who are focused on diplomacy. Thats the way I understand it and it makes perfect sense.

3rd If the only reason why you did the whole diplo "tutorial" up to lvl 50 was to get the horse and now you cry that you have wasted your time, because its not as fast as the one you can buy for 12S. . .well than I really have nothing to say. . .actually I do have 1thing to say - you deserve it! Its a diplo horse for diplomats and if you think that diplo is waste of time than be a man, do not cry, go kill monsters, save cash and buy yourself a godamn cadillac or w/e

boo hoo to all the whiners. . .do not bother with diplo if you only do it for the horse

Lumberg
02-22-2007, 01:27 AM
You all really need to stop crying abou the diplo horse!

1st read the tooltip. It will tell you that in time, the horse will get faster and sturdy.

2nd noone is forcing you to use that horse. Its ment to be a "diplomacy horse" for people who are focused on diplomacy. Thats the way I understand it and it makes perfect sense.

3rd If the only reason why you did the whole diplo "tutorial" up to lvl 50 was to get the horse and now you cry that you have wasted your time, because its not as fast as the one you can buy for 12S. . .well than I really have nothing to say. . .actually I do have 1thing to say - you deserve it! Its a diplo horse for diplomats and if you think that diplo is waste of time than be a man, do not cry, go kill monsters, save cash and buy yourself a godamn cadillac or w/e

boo hoo to all the whiners. . .do not bother with diplo if you only do it for the horse

There is no reason mounts from the different spheres should not be equivlent. The dip horse as is does not get any better yet, reguardless of the tool tip. The horse is not free, if you consider the time put in, it most definately is not. Along those lines the adventurers horse can be said to be free because 12s is chump change to a 10 adventurer.

Roguefox
02-23-2007, 03:31 AM
and dont forget, you have to get level 10 adventuring(or crafting) to do the quest in the first place... if it's a DIPLOMACY quest, why should I have to gain ADVENTURE levels to do it? Last I heard the 3 sphere's were supposed to be completely seperate as far as progression goes. Also, I have yet to run into an adventuring/crafting quest that required me to have a certain amount of diplomacy skill... just doesn't add up to me...

Wudan
02-23-2007, 04:24 AM
and dont forget, you have to get level 10 adventuring(or crafting) to do the quest in the first place... if it's a DIPLOMACY quest, why should I have to gain ADVENTURE levels to do it? Last I heard the 3 sphere's were supposed to be completely seperate as far as progression goes. Also, I have yet to run into an adventuring/crafting quest that required me to have a certain amount of diplomacy skill... just doesn't add up to me...

You, my friend are somewhat confused. First you say "you have to get level 10 adventuring(OR crafting)". You dont need to get adventuring levels in order to get this horse, that "or crafting" you have in your sentence made me think you understand it, but than you say "why should I have to gain ADVENTURE levels to do it" hmm do you even read what you write? You dont need to get them adv levels, thats why there is this "OR". 10th lvl adventurer OR 10th level diplomat OR 20th lvl crafter. . .savy?

grazel
02-23-2007, 11:55 PM
You, my friend are somewhat confused. First you say "you have to get level 10 adventuring(OR crafting)". You dont need to get adventuring levels in order to get this horse, that "or crafting" you have in your sentence made me think you understand it, but than you say "why should I have to gain ADVENTURE levels to do it" hmm do you even read what you write? You dont need to get them adv levels, thats why there is this "OR". 10th lvl adventurer OR 10th level diplomat OR 20th lvl crafter. . .savy?

I think his point is that you HAVE to be 10 adventurer or 10 crafter to do the horse quest. Therefore its not a 'diplomacy horse', its a quest for a horse for those with some diplomacy skill PLUS are adventurers or crafters. Its not based purely on diplomacy skill so breaks the independent sphere progression logic to a degree (while its not needed to be a diplomat its the only quest I've seen so far that requires certain levels/progression in more than 1 sphere).

If the horse quest didn't require 10 adventuring or crafting level I'd accept the 'its a diplomats horse' logic. Its not its an alternate route for adventurers and crafters to get a horse without paying out 12s. Also the various diplomacy quest horses and low-end bought horses varies in abilities between the regions.

Lomshir/Dark Horse Plains/Hathor Zhi: bought +40 move +20 stability, quested +35 move 0 stability
Leth Nurae: bought ?, quested +35 move +20 stability

Those are the only ones I have the stats on currently as I've only gotten 2 characters through the diplomacy quests and CB doesn't have a horse vendor (and my wood elf is stuck on the diplomacy quests there so not sure what the quested one has).

Roguefox
02-26-2007, 02:21 AM
i'm not confused at all, Wudan. I'm a thestran human, so i started in Tursh, I've done the entire newbie diplo quest line, including the quest that sends me to Three Rivers Village in under 20 minutes. After I completed that quest, I was given a message something along the lines of:

You must reach adventuring or crafting level 10 in order to recieve the next quest in this line allowing you to recieve the diplomacy horse.

The NPC himself told me I need to be stronger.

And you're right, one doesn't need 10 adventuring levels, they can also get 10 crafting levels to be eligible to recieve the quest. my entire point is that I, as a DIPLOMAT, have to gain 10 levels in ANOTHER SPHERE in order to recieve a horse.

Oh, and to answer your 3 points from an earlier post:

1) the horse doesn't not get better with use, it only gets better once they add the 2nd and 3rd tier horse quests, which they have not done yet. and to be frank, i fully expect them to be less effective than the adventuring horses, and maybe even require adventuring or crafting level 20, 30 whatever similar to the purchasable horses.

2)I am focusing on diplomacy. I was adventuring level 3 when i made the run to Three Rivers Village doing the first quest in the horse quest line(hadn't done any crafting yet so didn't even pick out a profession yet).

3) read above

btw, it took me a couple nights(about the same amount of time each night)finishing up the diplo line up to the horse quest, i was able to get from 3 to 10 in LESS THAN ONE of those sittings, and had like 20S when i hit 10, and that included paying for all of my spells/abilities. you know how much i had when i got to TRV doing the diplo quest? about 5s. I'm not complaining about the money, doesn't bother me, haven't dad to buy anything as a diplomat yet, what i'm complaining about is taking that much more time than adventuring, AND having to do the adventuring(or crafting, but that would have taken me even longer than the diplo), and getting a less effective horse.

Mustang68
02-26-2007, 02:32 PM
I agree that it's silly that the diplomacy horse isn't at least equal to the regular young horses, but I have an additional suggestion for the developers. To keep things interesting, why don't you have the horse grow slowly over time rather than at SET intervals? Personally, there is nothing more boring in a game to have to hit enormous skill levels before something happens. It's much more exciting to have the growth happen over a larger period. Such as, the horse gets +1 at Dip 75, +2 at 100, etc. At some point, with all the work Diplomacy requires, you could have the horse be at a range somewhere higher than the young horse but below rank 2 (this would then follow for later ranks similarly). That way, there's actually a bonus to having the horse, because given enough diplomacy, you will actually have a FASTER horse for a few levels than someone at an equal adventuring level. This seems to adequately provide a carrot to everyone doing the horse quests. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea.